Chad's gameroom project - Drywall hanging / subfloor complete + new pics

[ChadTower]

EDIT:  I asked Haruman to move this so it could become a full project thread.  We haven't had many full on gameroom project threads so I'm going to document this one.


I'm in the process of finishing my basement to mostly be gameroom and media area.  Black light carpet is part of the plan.  What I'm not decided on, at this point, is how to manage the black lights.  The ceiling at this point is exposed joists.  I want to put in some cans for regular lighting, probably sectioned off on 2-3 switches, but I haven't figured out a good way to mix the black lights into that.  How have others done this?

At this point I'm figuring the best way might just be to add a couple too many tracks of switched can lights with the plan that they won't ever all be on at once because some are black.

[ChadTower]

Anybody?  I can't be the only person who has put black light carpet in during a remodel.

[eds1275]

How big is the room? What are you going to do for a ceiling? Drop tile ceiling, drywall, leave as is? How's the height down there? If a tiled ceiling or drywalled, you could have them on alternating circuits - so every other light is on one switch and have one be regular and one be blacklights. This would probably work best with pot lights.

Or were you trying to use track lighting with a mix of regular and blacklights in the same fixture? I don't think I've ever seen one with configurable lighting like that.

[ChadTower]

How big is the room? What are you going to do for a ceiling? Drop tile ceiling, drywall, leave as is? How's the height down there? If a tiled ceiling or drywalled, you could have them on alternating circuits - so every other light is on one switch and have one be regular and one be blacklights. This would probably work best with pot lights.

Or were you trying to use track lighting with a mix of regular and blacklights in the same fixture? I don't think I've ever seen one with configurable lighting like that.

Good thoughts.  I'm trying to lose as little height as possible so I'm going with shallow cans between the joists.  I am not dropping a traditional ceiling.    The joists will get painted and I'm going to tack strips between them with tiles there.  This will, of course, leave some amount of pipes/ducts exposed but trying to drop a ceiling below them would be too low.  Not having lighting protruding from the ceiling is a priority here since I'll be moving games around and some of the pins and Atari cabs would not clear hanging fixtures.

The area is roughly 23' x 13' without much if any external lighting.  At this point I'm thinking that if I can manage it some shallow cans might be the best way.  Due to a crossbeam the room sort of separates itself, to the eye, across the width.  I am trying to decide if good lighting would need two or four white cans on each side.  Either way I would want each half of the room switched separately for white lights.  I could live with all of the black lights on one switch. 

I am far from familiar with lighting types, though, so I would love any suggestions.  Recessed is preferred by far.  I'm going to see if I can get a pic or two of the area for context.

EDIT: 

It's hard to get a good pic of the whole room.  Every time I get far enough back there is a pole or a staircase in the way.  And I know we still have some clearing out of stuff to do.  For the time being I'm just working around that stuff until I get to the drywall.  And the bed/coolers/heater are the things we just put there because of Hurricane Sandy. 

[ChadTower]

I just measured and the joists have 7" from the subfloor to the bottom of the joist.  If I factor in the plans I have for the ceiling then I figure there are a ton of different can types I can put in there.

[eds1275]

Totally. You can even save $$$ by purchasing the "contractor pack" which is usually like 6 lights for the price of 4 or whatever.

There is a great example here of track lighting used with exposed joists and the joists and area painted black



And again with white



Track lighting looks great in the black one - I think it's raised up a bit so the lights are just peeking out below the bottom of the joists. The post you have there near the stairs is an excellent place for a sconce. Instead of trying to hide your wiring, perhaps go the other way and make it look intentionally industrial - use BX cable for your wiring and conduit etc.

[ChadTower]

Hrm.  I sort of like the idea of the black with track lights.  The only real issue I see is that we get dust coming down from the floor above.  I was hoping the tiles would catch that.  But I really like the simplicity of the black there and the fact that I could change that lighting in the future if I want.  I could also move the lights around. 

[lilshawn]

the only thing i can suggest is getting fixtures with a chrome reflective surface on the ceiling side.
that way you aren't wasting light lighting up the ceiling, it will be reflected down and you will get a more satisfying and brighter glow.

[ChadTower]

Do you think flat black would solve that too?  Hell, if I did flat black for the paint, then I could come back later and UV paint some Berzerk robots and stuff.   

[Hoopz]

Wouldn't flat black just absorb the light instead of reflecting it?

[ChadTower]

Wouldn't flat black just absorb the light instead of reflecting it?

I guess that's the question.  That is rough lumber, though, and I don't want to have a semigloss ceiling with a billion imperfections in it.

[BadMouth]

the only thing i can suggest is getting fixtures with a chrome reflective surface on the ceiling side.
that way you aren't wasting light lighting up the ceiling, it will be reflected down and you will get a more satisfying and brighter glow.

Actually, for the regular lighting in bars, home theaters and gamerooms, I prefer to light up the ceiling (or edges of the ceiling) instead of having direct light.
The atmosphere is better when it's dim with indirect light.

My place is just a rental and isn't finished unless you call the walls and floor being painted finished.
I've built a pretty nice bar in it though.
It just has bare sockets attached to the joists. I experimented with various low wattage bulbs and found all of them to be eyesores.
Ended up using these and like the result:

Of course, this is in an unfinished basement.

For the blacklights.....
I'm sure you already know that incandescent black lights like what would fit in track lighting aren't real black lights and are just normal bulbs with purple glass.
They won't light up anything that normally responds to blacklight.  I'm not sure how the compact florescent ones measure up or how many it would take to get the same result as one 48" tube.  I'd do some experimenting first.

I like the idea of painting the rafters flat black.
I'm a bit jealous of the blacklight carpet.  I watched a 6x6ft patch on ebay for a year and couldn't bring myself to lay out the money for it.

[ChadTower]

Hrm.  We keep coming to the same conclusions here that my research is revealing.  The two goals are sort of at odds with each other.  If I add in the desire to use dimmers on the white light it gets even wonkier.

I wonder if there are fluorescent fixtures I could get between the joists.  I do have 48" ancient fluorescent fixtures there now but they are ancient commercial things that hang way low.  They would be useful for experimenting, though.

It's probably time to order some carpet samples and see how they do in various lighting.


EDIT:

A second thought.  If I go with the idea above and make the ceiling somewhat industrial then some black, but decent looking, 48" shop lights could work.  That way I can have dimmable white and true UV fluorescent tubes.  I get the best of both worlds that way and it would probably look decent with shielded 12-2.


Badmouth, can you elaborate on that bulb picture?  It's hard to tell what that actually is.

[BadMouth]

I have one of these mounted to the side of a rafter parallel with my bar.


It does a good job of lighting up clothing and florescent plastic cups.
I think four carefully placed ones would probably do a good job on a dimly lit medium sized room.
Of course, take the word of someone who actually has experience covering a whole room first.

For a while I was kicking around the idea of painting a dancefloor on the floor with blacklight paint.
I found out that the companies that make the paint use special high power blacklights for their pics and product demos.
I don't know how much more expensive they are but they definitely make things pop.

[matsadona]

I would try UV LED strips. Cheap and easy to mount.

Here's an example:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5m-UV-395-405nm-ultraviolet-black-light-5050-SMD-LED-150LEDs-500CM-STRIP-WDJB-/261119459876?pt=US_String_Lights_Fairy_Lights&hash=item3ccbeec224

Must admit that I haven't tried it myself yet, but I'm about to do that soon.

[ChadTower]

I bet that's more for close up lighting than ceiling to floor.  But that does look like it would mount on the underside of a pinball cabinet very nicely...

[ChadTower]

Okay, since this seems like a great thread for future people to search out...

...let's put some real info in here.

I just ordered samples from AstrocarpetMills and CarpetBargains.

Hoopla Black ($1.78sqft): 

Pizzaz ($1.78sqft): 


Night Life ($1.49sqft): 

Fiesta ($1.49sqft): 

Galaxy ($1.60sqft): 

Prism ($1.60sqft): 

Retro ($1.60sqft): 

[Hoopz]

Ask Saint what carpet he used?  Remember his decade old thread asking us to guess what he was doing in his game room?  I know he had put the same type of carpet in it.

[eds1275]

Galaxy & Retro are the ones I like

[ChadTower]

Ask Saint what carpet he used?  Remember his decade old thread asking us to guess what he was doing in his game room?  I know he had put the same type of carpet in it.

Heh, I actually did that in his gameroom thread, but he doesn't seem to be around much lately.

[Mysterioii]

I'm sure you already know that incandescent black lights like what would fit in track lighting aren't real black lights and are just normal bulbs with purple glass.

They actually do produce SOME ultraviolet light, though they're not very efficient at it... at least, that is if they're using Wood's glass or a coating with the proper filtering characteristics and not just a dip in cheap purple paint.  They're basically a regular broad-spectrum core, and the Wood's glass or filtering coating blocks most of the visible light.  I'm sure there are cheapo versions out there that don't use the right materials, that's probably what you've had experience with.

Regular incandescent bulbs put out a fair amount of UV, that's why they screw up things like Wii controllers even though they have a UV filter. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_light

[ChadTower]

I did some poking around Lowe's on the way home.  I really like the modular nature of some of the track lighting.  I think I'm going to go with 96" tracks, two on each side of the basement, and start with 2 lights on each track.  Then if I need more, I can add one to each track, and two if really necessary.  They work well with a dimmer, should fit well between the joists, are black and will match a flat black painted ceiling well.  They work with dimmers which is also good here.


I can put in 2 48" shop light fixtures, black and low profile, in between the tracks.  That should be enough black light to mix in with dim white light so we get both reactive carpet (and maybe painted shapes on the ceiling) and still be able to walk around. 


Total SWAG on the cost is about $500-600 for all of that since I'm doing everything myself.  That does not count the new circuit work that these lights will be hooking into.


For the track lights I am thinking these give me a good amount of light, if mounted well will barely protrude from the joists, and are fully adjustable in all directions.  The 96" tracks are $19 each, the power modules are $7 each (one per track), and the light heads are $17 each.  I'm having some trouble coming up with good images for the products so bear with me. 


 




Heh, my 13 year old son is vacuuming all the cobwebs from the ceiling now so we can do the flat black painting over the weekend.  For whatever reason he's really enjoying the vacuuming. 

[Drnick]

I know why he's enjoying the vacuming - Its'a Luigi Time.  He's playing out Luigi's mansion in his head 

[ChadTower]

I know why he's enjoying the vacuming - Its'a Luigi Time.  He's playing out Luigi's mansion in his head 

You have no idea how true that might be.  My kids are obsessed with Luigi's Mansion.  He made me a CD last week of mp3s from Luigi's Mansion and it's in my truck right now.  He used to have an oversized Luigi's Mansion retail display box on his dresser.

[Mysterioii]

Even though I'm a relatively old guy I still enjoyed Luigi's Mansion.  They should have made a sequel for the Wii....  the motion controllers seemed ideally suited for the Luigi's Mansion gameplay.  A while back I saw that they were making a sequel but it would be a 3DS exclusive (which I don't have, and have no interest in).  I guess it came out.  I just think they dropped the ball by not doing a Wii version...

[ChadTower]

I completely agree.  I enjoyed that game a lot too.  I'm a sucker for first party Nintendo games. 

Last night I started painting the ceiling flat black using a combo paint/primer.  This is definitely going to need two coats.  The wood is sucking the paint in like it hasn't seen moisture in 40 years (which is entirely possible).  I spent 90 minutes brushing about 10sqft.  I'll get a pic posted when there is a bit more progress.

[eds1275]

You can buy rollers for staining/painting rough surfaces. They have a huge nap on them that gets into all the nooks and crannies of wood grain. Might be a faster way to go, just have someone behind you with a big brush to catch any drips and to get the corners.

[ChadTower]

There are a lot of nails sticking out from the hardwood flooring upstairs.   If I were to bend them upwards it would make taking that flooring up later on a lot harder.   

[lilshawn]

anybody who's ripping up hardwood has a tough job ahead of them anyways.

knock e'm flat.

[eds1275]

or get some end nippers and clip them. Or just paint them. Whatever works. I hope your project is coming along nicely! All my renos and arcade projects have ground to a halt due to lack of funds.

[ChadTower]

I have been painting them so far but a pair of end nippers is a good idea.  I didn't know about those.  Now that a lot of them are flat black on a flat black background they're damn near invisible.  I have been wondering how I was going to do the wiring with all of those invisible slightly rusty nails in the way.   

[ChadTower]

Progress... most of that side of the basement looks like this now.  It looks better in typical basement lighting - the flash is unforgiving.  Not done yet and some areas will need a second coat.  The subflooring planks are so rough it's like brush painting english muffins. 

[ChadTower]

Carpet samples are in and I picked up a pair of 4' UV tubes.  I'm going to try and get some pics tonight but it might be tricky to get the visual across with a camera.

We did learn some interesting things, though.  The carpet samples are nice and reactive but they were not the most reactive things we saw.  With a pair of 4' tubes my white socks were super reactive.  My son's jeans had bright accents all over them that are invisible in normal light.  Any spec of dust in your hair is visible and your fingernails are a sickly bright yellow as are your teeth.

The key point for now seems to be that a specific black light carpet may not be necessary.  Any dark carpet with light accents might present the same effect.  I'm going to see if I can snag a couple of regular carpet samples like that.  I think it's worth looking into as it opens up a whole lot of options.

[Nephasth]

Looking good! I wish my basement didn't have a sheetrocked ceiling...

[ChadTower]

Got some pics of the samples under two 4' UV tubes.


1)  Samples and a sock in regular light.  You'll see why the sock is included in the next pics.




2)  Samples and a sock under two 4' UV tubes with typical camera on auto.  This one doesn't do the visual justice.




3)  Samples and a sock with the camera on a slightly longer exposure.  This one looks awesome.  In reality the visual is somewhere in between this and the previous photo.




Notice how much brighter the sock is than anything else.  That's pretty cool and does give me reason to play with some other things when we get around to decorating the walls and ceiling.  I am still waiting for two more samples to arrive from a different vendor and one of those is my preferred pattern.

[lilshawn]

they put phosphates in laundry soap to help make colors "brighter" also known as "bluing"

that's why your sock is going all nutzo. I use environmentally friendly soap. At the pub, even my white shirts just glow a dull purple while my buds are going blind from theirs. 

[CoryBee]

they put phosphates in laundry soap to help make colors "brighter" also known as "bluing"

that's why your sock is going all nutzo. I use environmentally friendly soap. At the pub, even my white shirts just glow a dull purple while my buds are going blind from theirs. 

woa

[ChadTower]

Okay... that whole half of the basement now looks like this.  Two coats on all surfaces, including the exposed wiring and ducting, took more hours than I care to remember.  The one unpainted spot will be painted when I remove that temp light switch.



It's nice.  In the basement lighting you lose all details in the ceiling and it's easy enough to lose track of just how high the ceiling is.  Next up is the light fixtures and the wiring for new outlets.

Haruman suggested that I theme the room "radioactive sock".  That gives me the mental image of a giant UV reactive Mike Wazowski and a huge button on the side labeled 2319.

[ChadTower]

Okay, now that that is done, I'm on to the details of the lighting fixtures.

What I want is to have zoned lighting all at one location.  There are two zones and two types of lighting.  Black light will be on/off and white light will be dimmable.  All four switches will be in the same spot.

I am thinking the black lights could be done two different ways.  One way they're just normal hardwired shop fixtures with two switches.  I am having trouble finding small black hardwired fluorescent fixtures, though.  A second way would be to put an outlet next to each shop light and plug them in.  These outlets would be switched.  The difference, I think, is that later on if someone else dislikes the black lights they can just unplug those fixtures and remove them.  Without desire for black light those shop fixtures are way overkill.

Another issue here might be code.  Is it proper code to hardwired a plugin fixture?  I want to do this straight up and have it inspected for insurance reasons.

[eds1275]

I don't think it would hurt to put the outlets up there and plug the fixtures in; on the other hand, if you do that maybe you could put the outlet boxes up there anyways with a cover on them and then cut the plug off of your fixtures and wire them in the box; if the inspector says no then put the outlets in and throw a plug back on the cord.

[mcseforsale]

I'd cover the entire floor with socks.  It'd be wicked!

AJ

[ChadTower]

Never wash socks again!  Wear them once and then just throw them onto the gameroom floor.

[CoryBee]

Wash your carpet with phosphates and watch it shine! 

[DaOld Man]

This is my first viewing of this thread, and I must say great job so far Chad.
I like the exposed ceiling, but its got to be a lot of work painting all those pipes.
I wasnt real keen on the UV carpet idea until I saw some samples that you posted.

[Le Chuck]

Pick a nice neutral carpet. Empty room. Fill palm spreader with detergent. Seed carpet with Tide. Capet smells good and now floureses. Profit. #win.

[ChadTower]

Thanks, DaOld Man.  I appreciate that.  Wiring is well underway now, as my spare time permits, so pics will be forthcoming soon.

I still have enough time to test Le Chuck's idea.  We did put some liquid Tide into shot glasses to see it glow.     Interestingly only the surface of the liquid would glow even when a foot away from the tubes.  The light did not penetrate the surface of the liquid at all.

[Le Chuck]

Thanks, DaOld Man.  I appreciate that.  Wiring is well underway now, as my spare time permits, so pics will be forthcoming soon.

I still have enough time to test Le Chuck's idea.  We did put some liquid Tide into shot glasses to see it glow.     Interestingly only the surface of the liquid would glow even when a foot away from the tubes.  The light did not penetrate the surface of the liquid at all.

It does.  [great story bro]A guy in my hall in college painted his dorm room black and threw detergent on it while wet.  Detergent imbedded in paint.  Whole room glowed like the milky way.  Chicks just left their panties in the hall.[/great story bro]

[ChadTower]

He threw powder into the black paint?

Hell, someone should have told me about that before I painted the ceiling!   

[spoot]

That F14 Tomcat pinball machine must be in your way alot while remodeling........I'll "store" it for you.   

[ChadTower]

MAJOR UPDATE! 

Get your popcorn ready! 

[ChadTower]

We now have lights!

First, a distance shot of some of the new wiring.  Sorry about the fact that my camera phone isn't good indoors in low light.   




Now, a little detail.  Originally this was all raw cement slab.  There was one piece of wood hanging from a joist that had one outlet on it.  This was a 20A circuit with just that one outlet so I decided to use that line for lighting and a couple of the outlets for games.

Here is where the old wiring joins with what I've added in.  I removed the outlet, put in the junction box, and you can see the first quad outlet box here. 

[ChadTower]

The wiring runs along the wall from there into this area.  Here you see the lighting controls.  The left box is two dimmer switches - one for each half of this side of the basement.  The main support beam for the upstairs separates the two halves pretty well so that you really can light one up and the other stays mostly dark.  The cool thing about this dimmer switch type is that when you hit on or off it slowly raises or lowers the light like in a theater.  Combined with the flat black ceiling it has a theatrical feel that I'm starting to really dig.  The normal light switch on the right controls two black ceiling outlets you'll see in a couple of pics.  The black shop lights that I will install between joists plug into those outlets.  This setup gives me full control of two zones of track lights plus on/off control of black lights across both zones.  The two upper junction boxes are after the switches to branch the switched lines into two places each.  The lower junction boxes are where the primary circuit line branches off and enters the light switches.




This is a different angle on the corner showing the second quad outlet box.  This circuit ends there.  There will be more quad outlet boxes along that wall but they will be on a new 20A circuit.  The layout with these boxes should allow me two vids and two pins here.  The new circuit will be enough for four more pins (five if they are early SS) for a total of six/seven along that wall.

[ChadTower]

Now let's see the lighting!  The near (to the switches) side of the basement has two black 8' tracks.  The far side has two 4' tracks.  There is too much ducting on the other side for 8' tracks, sadly.  We are short on light heads at the moment because Lowes only had 5 of the type we are using.  I have to say I LOVE the versatility of dimmed track lights here.  I can add heads, move heads, re-aim the heads, and dim the zones.  I should be able to find a really cool balance here.  I have also noticed that with the black lights on and the tracks dimmed really low the carpet samples really pop but you can still see enough to get around safely.

[ChadTower]

Okay, and in the final couple pics here, we see the black outlets I put into the ceiling for the black shop lights for the black lights (is that black enough?)  These outlets are controlled by the light switch mentioned above.

[ChadTower]

The wiring is kind of gaudy in contrast with the black but I can fix that after I have my inspections done.  I still need to do the second circuit, then pull permits, and have it inspected before I can paint the wiring like I did the old wiring.  Hopefully this wire paints as well as the old wire did.  The new insulation is a lot more plastic and I could see paint deciding not to stick that well.

[Hoopz]

Congrats but I think the bigger issue is that you have a phone with a camera.  Could it, by chance, be a cellular device?  Miracles do indeed happen, if so.

)

[ChadTower]

Congrats but I think the bigger issue is that you have a phone with a camera.  Could it, by chance, be a cellular device?  Miracles do indeed happen, if so.

  )

Heh, yeah, I had to get a smartphone for business reasons about a year ago.  I wasn't happy about it but I have come to peace with it.  I rarely answer the stupid thing.  I mostly use it for monitoring certain functions of my job and Facebook.   

[DaOld Man]

Looking good Chad!

[eds1275]

Are you using 12 guage wire and 20 amp circuits?

[ChadTower]

Are you using 12 guage wire and 20 amp circuits?

For sure.  20A outlets and switches too, of course, except the dimmers.  Those are rated at 500W load each and can only be used on dedicated branches.  Once I go to LED instead of halogen there is pretty much no way I'll ever get to 500W on either dimmer.

I was a little annoyed to see the old outlet I removed was 15A on a 20A circuit.  Why bother running a circuit for only one outlet and then underrate the outlet?   

[sac01]

Hey Chad, looking good.  Are those all junction boxes im seeing on the framework?  Last I knew you can't put any kind of electrical junction boxes in a place that will be permanantly covered by finish material (drywall, etc) per codes.  Of course if you are not getting inspected, carry on

[TopJimmyCooks]

The junction boxes on the framing need to be turned so the cover can be accessed after the walls are paneled/sheetrocked. 

[ChadTower]

The junction boxes on the framing need to be turned so the cover can be accessed after the walls are paneled/sheetrocked.

A friend mentioned that to me a week ago.  I haven't had the chance to put much time in on this due to the holidays so it's still open.  I can make this change, I think, since it's just turning and moving an inch or two forward.

Does anyone know why that is required?  Is that so you don't accidentally drive a nail or something into the junction box?

[TopJimmyCooks]

Electrical code-have to be able to access the wire nuts.  For nail and screw protection, the wires should be in the middle third of the stud.  Closer to the surface and you need to install nail plates to protect them.   The inspector may question the number of receptacles on a circuit as well.  If you know an electrician have them take a look to avoid failing inspection.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2

[ChadTower]

Okay, thanks.  I don't think I'll have an issue with the hole placement.  They're all pretty much in the middle. 

If I knew an electrician I wouldn't be learning this on the fly.   

This is why project threads rock.  20 sets of eyes are better than 1.   

[TopJimmyCooks]

All cables coming out of boxes need to have a staple close to the box.  in your first pic there are some runs that go from box to box without being stapled to the stud between.  Obviously, when you turn the metal junction boxes you'll have to redo the short wires going from box to box to go through a knockout in the box itself, you cant have holes in the cover.  In any metal box, make sure you've connected the ground wire to the green screw in the box with a pigtail.  make sure you don't have too many wires for the given size of box (couple look suspicious)  There are charts around of how many wires/gauges per cubic inch sized box.  Usually metal boxes are not used with romex (plastic sheathed wire).  you might call the inspector /ask electrician if that is an issue.  If it is, easy enough to change to plastic nail on boxes like you used with your switches and receptacles. 

You will need to make an electrician friend -- even in your own house you usually can't pull an electrical permit without being licensed.  I.e. you can work on your house without a license, but you have to hire a plumber/electrician/hvac man with a license for that trade work.  When you do call for the rough in inspection,  make sure the breaker is off for the new work and have alternate lighting (flashlight is ok).  Take the covers off the boxes.  They may not like that the devices are already installed, but plead ignorance and have a screwdriver ready to start taking them off.  They'll be cool if you respect their Authoritai.   Since you have devices and lights installed, they might just give you a final pass if everything looks good. 

[ChadTower]

You will need to make an electrician friend -- even in your own house you usually can't pull an electrical permit without being licensed.  I.e. you can work on your house without a license, but you have to hire a plumber/electrician/hvac man with a license for that trade work.

Cool, thanks for all the tips.   

There aren't really that many things in those boxes, they're just branches with one going in and two coming out.  I think I'm going to eat the time and eliminate them.  It might mean redoing a couple of runs but it's the right way to do it.  I think the orientation of the boxes is the only thing you've mentioned that I did not do properly (unless the metal boxes are also wrong).

In MA a homeowner can pull a permit so I'm good there.  I do know that I'm going to have to disassemble some things so the inspector can see the terminations.  I wanted to ensure it all actually works before having it inspected. 

[floriske.nl]

Nice project! wish we had a basement or spare garage to use as mancave instead of our 3d floor with sloped roof

I just can't seem to get used to the way you guys are allowed to build and wire stuff over there 

This would never ever pass inspection over here (Netherlands) and in case of an electrical fire the insurance wouldn't pay for sure.

Over here all wiring running inside a wall, behind sheetrock or in floors and ceilings has to run through pvc piping. Loose cables  are only allowed in cable ducts, in some situations behind false ceilings (in which case they have to be clamped every 30cm) and in plain sight (same 30cm rule).

All sockets in new installations or expansions have to be grounded.

Max number of outlets and fittings on a 16A group in a 3 group installation is 18.

Etc.

Big advantage of the piping though is that it's very easy to add or replace wiring. (Few weeks back i've grounded all outlets in a friends older house built while regulations only required ground in kitchen and bathroom in only a few hours for instance)

[TOK]

Cool, thanks for all the tips.   

There aren't really that many things in those boxes, they're just branches with one going in and two coming out.  I think I'm going to eat the time and eliminate them.  It might mean redoing a couple of runs but it's the right way to do it.  I think the orientation of the boxes is the only thing you've mentioned that I did not do properly (unless the metal boxes are also wrong).

In MA a homeowner can pull a permit so I'm good there.  I do know that I'm going to have to disassemble some things so the inspector can see the terminations.  I wanted to ensure it all actually works before having it inspected. 

I think its a smart move to eliminate them so you don't have hidden splices or random double blank plates all over the walls. I put mine up above the ceiling (which has a small attic) instead of in the walls. Even if yours are up high without a ceiling, I don't think they'd be really noticeable.

[ChadTower]

I agree now that I know they shouldn't be there.  I'm going to redo it between Xmas and New Year's.  I have the week off so I should have time.  One or two long run cables will have to be replaced but it's all open so I'll just man up and get it done.  It's the learning process that I love the most about stuff like this so let's just chalk this one up to education, fix it, and move on.   

[ChadTower]

Okay, now that the holidays are over and I get a little bit of spare time between my son's hockey practices, I got the chance to eliminate those boxes.  Had to redo a couple of runs to make it happen.

The upper box on the left was a metal box.  Yeah, it's in a weird spot, but that's where the old wiring meets the new, and it would have been an entirely different effort to avoid anything at all in that spot.




There were four boxes in this area before around the dimmer switches.  Now there are none and most of the branching is done inside that quad box.  That is the most pigtailing I've ever done in one box.




A shot of this whole wall.  There is one more quad box around the corner from here and I'm still in the process of wiring up three more quad boxes on a separate circuit along that wall. 



Thanks for the advice on the boxes, guys.  It's better this way now.

[ChadTower]

Quick progress note.

Electrical permit pulled and will be requesting rough inspection in a week or so.

[Nephasth]

Not knocking the wiring Chad, but am I the only one that thinks it's crazy to run wires through vertical studs like that? I'm no electrician, and am not up with the codes, but when I was finishing my dad's basement I ran the wires over the tops of the wall frames. I'd hate to be drilling/screwing/nailing into a stud and hit one of those.

More progress!

[Gray_Area]

Not knocking the wiring Chad, but am I the only one that thinks it's crazy to run wires through vertical studs like that? I'm no electrician, and am not up with the codes, but when I was finishing my dad's basement I ran the wires over the tops of the wall frames. I'd hate to be drilling/screwing/nailing into a stud and hit one of those.

More progress!

That makes sense. And you could put them in a strip bed, so if one was bad or something, you wouldn't have to mess with the tangle.

[ChadTower]

I would have had to run the wires on the backside of the studs to avoid being in the studs.  If you look at the top of that wall the horizontal piece is directly attached perpendicular to the joists.  The only other option would have been drilling holes in the joists to run the cables through there.

I don't pretend to know why this is the preferred method.  I copied the wiring on the other side of the basement and that was done by licensed electricans a few years ago.  The outlets and wiring are all at the min heights they used.

[Nephasth]

Don't know how your joists are... The ones in my dad's basement (house was built in '95) have precut knockout holes in them. Quick hit with a hammer, and you've got a nice hole to run some wires through.

[ChadTower]

My joists are solid wooden 2x8 lumber from the 1950s.

[eds1275]

It looks good to me, though the outlets are upside down. I don't think you'll fail for that.

[mcseforsale]

There's no code specifying the orientation.  Most hospitals use the ground-up method so if equipment is tripped over, the power is the least likely thing to get lost, or if something falls onto the cord at the outlet, it would hit ground first.

It does look weird, though. 

AJ

It looks good to me, though the outlets are upside down. I don't think you'll fail for that.

[ChadTower]

Heh.  They are all like that in my house.  I just followed the convention. 

[TopJimmyCooks]

ground pin up is very popular in the midwest and canada and it makes sense to me.  Heard a rumor it's code in Canada - unconfirmed. 

Not popular around here. 

[lilshawn]

people tend to like to have the ground at the bottom "face orientation"  cause it looks like a face.

i personally don't care either way.

NEMA mentions nothing about orientation....so no help there.

i would just go with however the rest of the house is oriented.

[Nephasth]

I prefer face orientation...

[eds1275]

ground pin up is very popular in the midwest and canada and it makes sense to me.  Heard a rumor it's code in Canada - unconfirmed. 

Not popular around here.

It's not. I live in canada (pacific northwest), and we plug our stuff into little faces here.

[Nephasth]

Hey, who's deleting my posts?

[TopJimmyCooks]

Don't worry, I saw it and laughed, that's all that matters.

[ChadTower]

I requested the mods remove that image.  I'd prefer the project thread stay PG.

[Nephasth]

WTF? PBJ could delete his own posts without a trace (save the rare quote), mods can delete my posts without a headsup or trace, but all I can do is reduce my own posts to a period and a timestamp. Oh the oppression...

At least leave something behind. Could have just removed the pic and left the text, that was "PG".

Treated like a ---Bad words, bad words, whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when saint censors you?--- spambot around around here. Jesus.

/rant

TJC -    I still laugh when I think about it.

[ChadTower]

That's what admins call "refining the process", I suppose.   

[Nephasth]

As they say, "the squeaky wheel gets the grease."

[lilshawn]

As they say, "the squeaky wheel gets REPLACED."

FTFY

[Le Chuck]

Le Chuck loves Chad!

[lilshawn]

You love Olivia Dukakis.

[Le Chuck]

You love Olivia Newton John.

FTFY

[WaRpEd]

Any progress Chad and did your inspection pass?

[Gray_Area]

Chadly must have family members viewing the thread.

[ChadTower]

Sorry, folks, been super busy with work and family lately.  No substantial progress to report.  I did clean up the room last night, though, and open up all the receptacles to prepare for the Inspector.

[ChadTower]

Been a little while since an update so this is where I am.

I went to town hall a few days ago during the Building Inspector's office hours to ask him the procedure for scheduling a wiring inspection.  He was unhappy that my electrical permit was not connected to a building permit.  I told him I didn't think I needed one because I was not making any layout or structural changes.  It is his opinion that I should have applied for a building permit anyway and let him make that decision.  He was in a bad mood and started rapid firing equations at me about natural sunlight percentages so I figured my best move would be to grab the permit application and leave.  I snapped at him that I get it when he started throwing fresh air equations at me without waiting for an answer so he told me I cannot proceed until he reviews an accurately scaled floor plan.  Oh well.  One more obstacle for my learning curve.

So over the weekend my son and I broke out the tape measure, downloaded Sketchup, and got to work.  This isn't pretty but it's accurate to within 6" or so.  It's the raw floor plan for my basement as it currently stands (minus all the stuff stored there).  I know I left the guide marks and axes in the image.  We finished up at like 9pm last night and just wanted to go to bed.

Next step:  Make time to get over to the building inspector's office during his limited office hours.

[TopJimmyCooks]

Be conciliatory.  He's obviously overworked, underpaid and power tripping on the little bit of juice he has.  Call the secretary for the permit office and make sure you have the full requirements for plan submissions and meet them.  I.e. sometimes they will not accept plans on 8 1/2x11 paper, 11x17 at a minimum, etc, permit app signed in blue ink, zoning permit pre approved, etc.

Generally once you come hat in hand and let them know he's the Daddy they suddenly become very helpful.  Then they start thinking they really don't want to F with your fresh air calcs and daylighting percentages (both bogus ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- on an existing basement anyway) and they just come out and sign off on what you're asking for. 

Kiss a little ass and you'll get there.  Played a Fathom this weekend, cool game.

[ChadTower]

Yep, that's pretty much the plan.  It wasn't all that bad so if I go in with this plan and listen to his input I should be okay.  I need to ask him in person about the permit cost anyway.  It's $12/$1000 of project cost but I don't know what project cost means with a total DIY.

[TopJimmyCooks]

make a barely plausible low estimate of the cost, not including electrical cost.  building permit cost should be for the building, trade work is covered by the trade permit cost (electrical permit in this case).  GC's forget and leave a few costs off their permit estimate from time to time.   winkwinknudgenudge saynomore!

you should not be paying more than $50 for this type of permit. 

[ChadTower]

Gotcha.  So I'm looking at the cost of the materials and I'll let him tell me if labor has any cost.  Realistically I'm around $2000 in building materials by the time I'm done.

Rough estimates from memory:

Drilok paint:  $125
Rigid insulation sheets:  $125
Lumber:  $150
Dricore flooring:  $700

Then there will be the drywall costs that I have not had yet.  So let's add another $300 for that.  Would carpet and finish paint count here?

[TopJimmyCooks]

you're on track.

[lilshawn]

what a goofball. he's just chucking stuff at you to overwhelm you so you'll cave and dump all sorts of extra money.

[ChadTower]

It has been a recurrent theme at every step.  There is an attitude here that nobody should be doing their own work.  We should all be hiring people do do the work.  If you do your own electrical you'll die, if you do your own drywall it'll rot, if you do your own paint it'll spill on the baby.  Nobody wants anyone here to do their own work.

[mcseforsale]

+1.  This generation of "consumers" is killing the DIY ethos.  I have friends who won't even mow their own lawns.  Hell, my neighbor called me over there a couple weeks ago to replace his air filter on the old Honda.  I mean, WTF?

AJ

[lilshawn]

+1.  This generation of "consumers" is killing the DIY ethos.  I have friends who won't even mow their own lawns.  Hell, my neighbor called me over there a couple weeks ago to replace his air filter on the old Honda.  I mean, WTF?

AJ

my wife drives school bus, she heard a call over the radio a while back that someone was at the refueling station but couldn't fuel up the bus and she needed help. after a few exchanges over the radio someone asked her if she put gas in her own car.... nope.


wut?!

[ChadTower]

Yesterday I took TopJimmyCook's advice and went back to the Building Inspector's office and apologized.  It took him a minute to even remember me and said he hadn't thought much of it because most people hate dealing with him.  He was so impressed with the apology, however, that he became super helpful.

He took a look at the plan and said that's more detail than he needed but it doesn't hurt.  Egress is covered via the bulkhead and stairs into the house.  He told me that I can go one of two ways with the permit.

1)  Habitable space.  This would count towards the square footage of the house and be considered a good usable family room.  I would have to install either a new window or an air exchanger for this.  He explained the math behind the fresh air requirements but IIRC it comes down to replacing a third of the air every hour for health reasons.  I honestly don't know how a closed window would accomplish this but that's the code.

2)  Finished storage space.  This would not count towards the square footage of the house.  Building material requirements are the same but there are no fresh air requirements.  He doesn't need to know how we intend to use finished storage space other than that it's not a bedroom.

I am going to do some research on air exchangers.  My house is currently ~1100sqft officially.  If I can add another ~275sqft now for an extra thousand I think that's a no brainer.  That also gives us the option of converting the rest of the basement into habitable space later on.

I do have one problem, though.  As he was drawing out diagrams for how to cover up the foundation walls properly I noted that I have everything right but one part.  I don't have a firestop at the top plate.  He mentioned possibilities of 1/2" drywall, 3/4" plywood, or 2x8 lumber.  Can't say I understand how a 2x8 is a firestop.  That's going to be a bit painful to correct but I want this done right.

[Paul Olson]

+1.  This generation of "consumers" is killing the DIY ethos.  I have friends who won't even mow their own lawns.  Hell, my neighbor called me over there a couple weeks ago to replace his air filter on the old Honda.  I mean, WTF?

AJ

Last year, I hired a neighbor to mow my lawn for $15/week. I will never mow a lawn again. For that price, it is well worth it to me.


I did DIY stuff most of my life. Now that I am in my 40s, I just prefer to pay to have the work done. Time and just not doing construction work is becoming more important with every passing year.

[mcseforsale]

That's called age (ya old fart)...you've put in your dues.  Just being here says that you don't mind putting a tool in your hand, creating a plan and executing it.  Buddies of mine have tool kits that consist of a hammer, one screw driver (usually the wrong one), no wrenches and a speed dial with my number on it.  It's very sad IMHO.

My 6 yr old has a work bench and is amassing tools.  This spring we'll be making some bolt boards and teaching him how to use some basic tools.

AJ

+1.  This generation of "consumers" is killing the DIY ethos.  I have friends who won't even mow their own lawns.  Hell, my neighbor called me over there a couple weeks ago to replace his air filter on the old Honda.  I mean, WTF?

AJ

Last year, I hired a neighbor to mow my lawn for $15/week. I will never mow a lawn again. For that price, it is well worth it to me.


I did DIY stuff most of my life. Now that I am in my 40s, I just prefer to pay to have the work done. Time and just not doing construction work is becoming more important with every passing year.

[ChadTower]

I did DIY stuff most of my life. Now that I am in my 40s, I just prefer to pay to have the work done. Time and just not doing construction work is becoming more important with every passing year.

That's fine.  I don't mind what people do for themselves.  What I'm sick of is people trying to prevent me from doing my own work.  Stuff like this is as much learning process for me as it is building process.  Yeah, I'm making mistakes and having to spend extra time fixing them, but that's a whole lot better than sitting in front of a TV all day beer in hand.

[ChadTower]

Huh.  I've been reading up on the purpose of the firestop and I think I might have a solution.  I'm going to ask the building inspector if it's okay for me to put the firestop below the top plate.  Yeah, that's not the logical way, but logical would have been including that before attaching the top plate to the joists.  If the purpose is really just to slow down the transfer rate of the fire, and a 2x8 extended out to the sill is sufficient to make that happen, then logically putting that fire block a couple of inches lower accomplishes the same thing.

[lilshawn]

My 6 yr old has a work bench and is amassing tools.  This spring we'll be making some bolt boards and teaching him how to use some basic tools.

This is the begining stages of being usurped. Watch your back he might try to take you out. 

[mcseforsale]

Yes.  Saws will come much later! 

AJ

My 6 yr old has a work bench and is amassing tools.  This spring we'll be making some bolt boards and teaching him how to use some basic tools.

This is the begining stages of being usurped. Watch your back he might try to take you out. 

[TopJimmyCooks]

chad, your idea should work.  the purpose of the firestop is to prevent smoke/flame from getting into joist spaces or the floor above, so the exact elevation doesn't matter.  Blocking between the joists over the top plate should work as well if you can get them tight to the subfloor above. 

[ChadTower]

chad, your idea should work.  the purpose of the firestop is to prevent smoke/flame from getting into joist spaces or the floor above, so the exact elevation doesn't matter.  Blocking between the joists over the top plate should work as well if you can get them tight to the subfloor above.

I'll have a closer look tonight.  I might be able to get them tight to the subfloor.  This only has to block off above/behind the vertical drywall, yes? 

[ChadTower]

Just found this air exchanger.  I wouldn't mind putting that in place of one of the windows.

[lilshawn]

you'd think you'd have to duct all the way across to the other side to get good ventilation.

[ChadTower]

Would you?  It's entirely open floor space.  The diagram in that pic shows it creating a flow around the whole space.

[ChadTower]

After looking at this a bit more last night I think my best option might be to put 3/4" plywood firestop under the top plate.  I can mount it so it's butted up against the foundation.  I will need to trim down the rigid insulation a couple of inches but that's easy enough to do.  It will take a little fire caulk to seal any gaps (nothing is perfectly square being 55 year old foundation behind new stick framing) but I think that's the best way to do it given how many spaces there are here.

I'm going to make time to talk to the building inspector and get approval on that.

[lilshawn]

I'm going to make time to talk to the building inspector and get approval on that.

agreed. It's best to ask their opinion...that way you make them feel smart, you look dumb to them, but everybody gets what the want. Also, i think he'd rather field a few questions rather than get all PO'd because you did something without "asking"

Would you?  It's entirely open floor space.  The diagram in that pic shows it creating a flow around the whole space.

i dunno, i looked at the pics on the site, it shows just the unit and it works that way, but they do have a duct part you could attach on there...it wouldn't be a big deal to run some 4" or whatever size duct it is across to the far side.  and you could even hit it with some black to blend it in. the more the merrier i would think... you wouldn't get just an exchange in the one side... it would HAVE TO do most of it. (draw in one side of the basement and exhaust out the other.)

run it by the inspector, mention either way works. (sincew they seem picky about air and light and fire and whatnot.

[Gray_Area]

I wouldna even bothered with a permit. Are you inviting him over to play?

[ChadTower]

I wouldna even bothered with a permit. Are you inviting him over to play?

I was wondering if this question was ever going to come up.  Here is why I am permitting:

I asked a friend of mine who is an insurance agent.  He told me that without permits if I ever have a loss down there the insurance will refuse to cover it.  If the loss extends to any other part of the house they will refuse to cover that too.  If the contents of that room are damaged as well they will refuse to cover that.  Basically, if a fire starts in that part of the house and it was not permitted then my house could be a total loss with no coverage.  That's a very bad thing.  Even if we're only talking about the contents of the room, which will be many thousands of dollars in pins/vids, that would be a very bad thing.

I asked a friend of mine who is a realtor.  She told me that when she is representing a buyer, and they get serious about a house, the first thing she does is go to town hall and pull the permit history.  If there is any obvious extra work that does not have a permit she will wait until after the offer is accepted to demand remediation concessions of double the value of the work.  Technically the demand is for the cost of removing the work because it is not permitted + redoing the work with permits.  Practically the demand is low grade blackmail with a veiled threat to either pull the offer (people often freak out at the prospect of relisting) and/or inform the building inspector.  The building inspector then has the right to come in and view the work and possibly demand it be pulled back out.  Basically, nonpermitted work becomes a seirous liability when you want to sell the house if someone in the process is especially aggressive.

I'm also doing it for common sense reasons.  Clearly I'm a learn as you go amateur here.  I want someone double checking my work because bad work could be a safety issue for my family.  If code says there should be a firestop then I want the firestop.  Stopping fire sounds like a good idea to me.

I figure if I'm doing 90% of the work to make my house "bigger" then may as well go the extra 10%.  A 1750sqft house is worth more than an 1100sqft house and I can make that happen here without the cost of an addition.

 

[ChadTower]

UPDATE

The strange weather today gave me an opportunity to get to the Building Inspector's office hours.  I asked him about putting 3/4" plywood under the top plate as a firestop with fire caulk in any gaps.  He told me that would pass if done well but suggested a different route.  I can use a fire retardant insulation called mineral wool that comes in both semirigid sheets and batts.  If I stuff that up into all of the gaps it will do the job and pass inspection.  That is more money but he says far more effective than the plywood and far easier to do.  He also explained the precautions to take while putting it in there.

I asked what he would recommend for an air exchanger.  He told me to use an air exchanger that has a heat exchange built into the loop.  The ducting has a heat exchanger near the cent that is keeping the temp of the outgoing air and transferring some of that to the incoming air.  That goes a long way towards avoiding February New England winter air turning my basement into a 650sqft refrigerator.  He suggested I look up Fan Tech Air Exchangers as he has seen many people install these and love them. 

Now I have a simple solution for the firestop and a specific direction to research on the air exchanger.  Initial prices on the air exchangers are lower than I thought.  Now to research install methods and recommendations.

Oh, and I'm now known in the Building Inspector's office as "the guy who apologized" and am very popular.  Apparently that only happens like every 4 years.   

[lilshawn]

awesome. 

now you have to be all like: "hey, I gotta come back later you want me to grab you a coffee or something"

they'll be eating out of your hand soon enough 

[TopJimmyCooks]

Bring doughnuts and you'll be promoted to honorary General Contractor! 

Seriously, I didn't steer you wrong, did I?  I know of what I speak when it comes to the power brokers down at the county government center.  They take a lot of crap day to day and your extra effort is so refreshing to them. 

The rockwool is a good idea, just wear longsleeves, gloves, dust mask, etc.  it's prickly stuff. 

[ChadTower]

Yep, for sure.   

It's common sense, really, but we all know how few people have any of that.

Barring any new surprises I have decided to put an air exchanger in that can handle the whole basement.  The added square footage is too good to pass up.  It gives me so many future options.  I still need to figure out the capacity requirements for the exchanger but this one is looking mighty good right now.

[ChadTower]

More research.  These come with out changing the temp of the incoming air, with active heat recovery from the outgoing air, and with active energy recovery (moisture transfer).  Heat recovery is recommended for cold winter areas and energy recovery for mild winter areas.

I live in MA so I definitely want heat recovery.  If I mostly intend to do just the basement here, instead of putting in a whole house system, I'm looking at something like this one.  Same company as above but with heat recovery.  If I've done my math correctly the basement rounds off to 5000cuft which would require around 90cfm for a full air swap every hour.  Code says 0.37 (no idea why) air swaps per hour so we're looking at 33-35cfm required for the basement.

The unit linked here rates to almost twice the requirement and sells in the $600-700 range.

I also have the option, I think, of tying much of my house into an exchanger.  I have forced hot air heat so the ductwork is already there.  I can probably tie into that somehow.  More research coming on potential there.

[WaRpEd]

Hey Chad one piece of advice on air exchanger is to have a pro either install or tell you where it's safe to mount it. Tying into the wrong spot can have alot of bad consquences. Leaking ducts or a room that doesn't get enough heat or cold. I do alot of my home repairs woodworking, plumbing and electrical but I leave the A/C heating stuff to the pros. Just my two cents.

[ChadTower]

I agree with that.  I think I'm going to install this independent of the heating system.  I don't know a thing about backdrafting and such and that's really out of the scope of what I'm trying to do here.  I am going to install it right near the furnace and the ducting trunk so that in the future it can be changed without a lot of hassle.  I'm not going to mess with the heat system, though. 

[ChadTower]

UPDATE:

After some unrelated delays I have the final plan worked out.  The building inspector verbally approved my plan.  I have to write up a description to go along with the before and after floorplans.  The details he asked for in the desc that aren't obvious from the floorplans are flooring type, firestop type, air exchanger model, and ceiling height (both the lowest beam and the average joist).

Min ceiling heights, with floor installed, are 6'4" for the lowest beam and 6'8" for the average joist.  I should come in just above those numbers but not by a lot.

I will have three building inspections and two electrical inspections.  Building inspections will be after raw framing, after the first electrical inspection, and then after the walls are closed.  Electrical inspections will be after the wiring is in place but everything is still open and then after the walls are closed.  Yeah, that's a lot of inspections for such a small job, but that's how it has to be done.

When all of THAT is done my gameroom will be habitable living space and will count towards the square footage of my house.  That will be a good bump of about 30% on total square footage.

[mcseforsale]

Unfortunately, that will raise your taxes as well.  Especially in Taxachusetts.  I had a similar thing happen to me in Ct.  I put a floor and a wall with a workbench hanging off it and they dinged me for an extra 300 square feet.

AJ

UPDATE:

After some unrelated delays I have the final plan worked out.  The building inspector verbally approved my plan.  I have to write up a description to go along with the before and after floorplans.  The details he asked for in the desc that aren't obvious from the floorplans are flooring type, firestop type, air exchanger model, and ceiling height (both the lowest beam and the average joist).

Min ceiling heights, with floor installed, are 6'4" for the lowest beam and 6'8" for the average joist.  I should come in just above those numbers but not by a lot.

I will have three building inspections and two electrical inspections.  Building inspections will be after raw framing, after the first electrical inspection, and then after the walls are closed.  Electrical inspections will be after the wiring is in place but everything is still open and then after the walls are closed.  Yeah, that's a lot of inspections for such a small job, but that's how it has to be done.

When all of THAT is done my gameroom will be habitable living space and will count towards the square footage of my house.  That will be a good bump of about 30% on total square footage.

[ChadTower]

Unfortunately, that will raise your taxes as well.  Especially in Taxachusetts.  I had a similar thing happen to me in Ct.  I put a floor and a wall with a workbench hanging off it and they dinged me for an extra 300 square feet.

Yep.  MA actually isn't as bad as its reputation when it comes to taxes.  We have lower property and income taxes than all neighboring states that aren't NH (NH has a totally different tax structure).

Anyone have any experience when it comes time to sell a house with a truly tricked out gameroom?  How does that effect the buyer pool?

[mcseforsale]

He will love it, she will
a.) love that she will know where he is....ALL THE TIME.
b.) hate it
c.) want to turn it into a doily room.

AJ

Unfortunately, that will raise your taxes as well.  Especially in Taxachusetts.  I had a similar thing happen to me in Ct.  I put a floor and a wall with a workbench hanging off it and they dinged me for an extra 300 square feet.

Yep.  MA actually isn't as bad as its reputation when it comes to taxes.  We have lower property and income taxes than all neighboring states that aren't NH (NH has a totally different tax structure).

Anyone have any experience when it comes time to sell a house with a truly tricked out gameroom?  How does that effect the buyer pool?

[ChadTower]

I wish there were a way to get the metal support poles brass plated.  That would add a little bit to the idea of an entertainment room.   

[ChadTower]

Minor update:

Building permit application is in.  The building inspector gave it a quick eyeball and said it would be a couple of days before he types it up and I can grab it.  Shouldn't be long now before things are moving forward again.

[WaRpEd]

Chad why not wrap those poles in carpet for that classy arcade look ?

[mcseforsale]

Doesn't rustoleum have chrome and brass colored paint?

AJ

[ChadTower]

Right now the poles are a flat lumpy grey.  Why lumpy?  I have no idea.  I'm toying with the idea of stripping them to see why it's lumpy but meh.  One son wants to paint them flat black and put some invisible UV reactive paint shapes on them.   The other wants to wrap some sort of light string around them.  I haven't made a decision yet.

[mcseforsale]

It's probably welding slag.  If your house is older, those were probably stick welded on-site.  Back then, basements were not seen as living space, so noone cared. 

AJ

Right now the poles are a flat lumpy grey.  Why lumpy?  I have no idea.  I'm toying with the idea of stripping them to see why it's lumpy but meh.  One son wants to paint them flat black and put some invisible UV reactive paint shapes on them.   The other wants to wrap some sort of light string around them.  I haven't made a decision yet.

[ChadTower]

Would slag be up and down the entire nearly 7' of pole?  Or just at the top and bottom?

[mcseforsale]

Probably all over it.  Tap one of the bumps with a tack hammer, or small hammer and see if it gives.  It could also be plaster, if your house is a slat/plaster house.

AJ

Would slag be up and down the entire nearly 7' of pole?  Or just at the top and bottom?

[ChadTower]

Probably all over it.  Tap one of the bumps with a tack hammer, or small hammer and see if it gives.  It could also be plaster, if your house is a slat/plaster house.

Good idea, I'll poke it with a flathead screwdriver and see what scrapes off.  My house is all drywall.  No plaster at all, just some old textured paint, which I suppose is another possibility.

[ChadTower]

UPDATE:

Picked up the building permit this morning.  I estimated my project cost at $3250 (it went up with the air exchanger) and the permit cost was $50. 

The permit says I need building inspections at rough, insulation, and finish.  All I have to do before rough is add the firestop insulation.  Then I can request the rough building inspection and the rough wiring inspection.

Five inspections (two electrical as well) for a minor remodel of the basement.  Sheesh.

[lilshawn]

just keep jumping through the hoops chadtower, you are well on your way. 

getting approval from the city is the hardest step sometimes.

[Zero_Hour]

Just found this thread. Very nice stuff going on. Cant wait to see the finished product. My wife and I recently relocated, and our new (built in 1960) house has a 'finished' basement that really isn't, so I know I'll be coming back here for inspiration when it comes time to remedy it.

I can't speak to what a tricked out game room will do for value when selling the house, but having just gone through the buying process recently, I can tell you that a finished basement is looked upon fondly, especially if there are kids in the equation.

[ChadTower]

Just found this thread. Very nice stuff going on. Cant wait to see the finished product. My wife and I recently relocated, and our new (built in 1960) house has a 'finished' basement that really isn't, so I know I'll be coming back here for inspiration when it comes time to remedy it.

Awesome!  This is exactly why I have been writing this thread.   

[lilshawn]

Awesome!  This is exactly why I have been writing this thread.   

I'm currently planing my first home purchase this year. You best believe i'll be coming back and referring to your thread.  :cheers It always helps to have multiple points of view and several sets of eyes on things.

[mcseforsale]

Where are you at lilshawn?  Perhaps some in here could give you tips on what to avoid, etc.  Personally, I've owned 6 homes over the years of all vintages.  I must say, the 1960s New England stuff is the worse when it comes to maintenance and upgrades. 

AJ

Awesome!  This is exactly why I have been writing this thread.   

I'm currently planing my first home purchase this year. You best believe i'll be coming back and referring to your thread.  :cheers It always helps to have multiple points of view and several sets of eyes on things.

[lilshawn]

<threadderailment>
I live in Edmonton Alberta Canada home of the -40c spring weather.

We are basically looking for a bungalow style house in the 300k range, as my oldest daughter is in a wheelchair. Because of this, we have very specific needs. (width requirements for doors and hallways etc.) we currently have 4 or 5 places we have our eye on with 1 that I think would be almost perfect. it was built in 1959 but it has had new siding put on in the last year, so it has a modern look to it anyways. I think it could be easily modified to work for us. it's been on the market for about 90 days already, so i'm not sure how flexible on price they might be. guess it depends.

We are in the early stages yet. have a few more meetings to hash out our final $ amount spending limit, but between me and the wife i think we are not too bad considering. the credit looks okay, and our income is good. paying a mortgage right now would be about as much as we are paying in rent.
</threadderailment>

[Gray_Area]

Finally remembered this: that mention about the realtor who investigates properties for sale that don't have permist and then....threatens the owners with reporting them?  Isn't that ---smurfing--- extortion?

[ChadTower]

Finally remembered this: that mention about the realtor who investigates properties for sale that don't have permist and then....threatens the owners with reporting them?  Isn't that ---smurfing--- extortion?

I didn't say I agree with it. 

[Gray_Area]

Finally remembered this: that mention about the realtor who investigates properties for sale that don't have permist and then....threatens the owners with reporting them?  Isn't that ---smurfing--- extortion?

I didn't say I agree with it. 

I was asking to know. If it is illegal in your state, I'm surprised she hasn't been shut down, or killed.

[ChadTower]

I was asking to know. If it is illegal in your state, I'm surprised she hasn't been shut down, or killed.

It does sound sketchy, but of course, there are a lot of sketchy people in real estate.  I wouldn't doubt the actual actions are more like "point out the work without permits, propose remediation concessions in price, hint that the building inspector would like to know, threaten to walk if concessions are not made".

[Gray_Area]

I was asking to know. If it is illegal in your state, I'm surprised she hasn't been shut down, or killed.

It does sound sketchy, but of course, there are a lot of sketchy people in real estate.  I wouldn't doubt the actual actions are more like "point out the work without permits, propose remediation concessions in price, hint that the building inspector would like to know, threaten to walk if concessions are not made".

Possibly. I'd still tell her ta eat a bag o ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.

[ChadTower]

UPDATE:

The mineral wool (aka rock wool) insulation is up.  I used Roxul Comfortbatt insulation.  Got it at Lowe's.  The type I used is R-15 and fire resistant to a couple thousand degrees.  It is installed up in the area inside the wall in between the joists and also along the entire sill plate at the top of the foundation.  The idea is that if a fire starts inside the wall, it is trapped between the drywall and the concrete foundation, so the only place to go is up.  Up is my living room and kitchen and family.  The insulation is made of rocks (no idea how) and will dramatically slow down the upward spread of fire in that area.  A firestop is required by building code.  This is one method doing it.

I'll get some pics when I can.  The area doesn't look all that much different than the last pics because most of the insulation is behind the framing and joists.  Took a while to jam it up in there with as little damage to the insulation structure as possible.  This stuff is much nicer to work with than fiberglass.  No mask or suit necessary.  Just glasses.  It has no paper backing, but does have some structural rigidity, and cuts super easily with a serrated bread knife.  I used the 15" stuff so it was a lot of cutting to size of the gap and then just sticking it between the joists.  It holds itself up.

On tuesday I called in for the rough building inspection.  When the building inspector called back he said he could do the inspection thursday (today) and he told me I should be getting the rough electrical first.  I thought he meant "get the rough electrical and call back" but he must have meant "get the rough electrical ASAP and I'll be there thursday".  He showed up today to inspect.  My wife and kids were there (April school vacation) but I was at work.  The wife says he didn't seem to mind much (he knows me and my n00bness by now) and since it IS ready for him he did the inspection anyway.  It passed just fine with one area that needs a little more firestop.  Easy to do.  The wife says he wasn't angry about the mixup and spent more time eyeing the pins than he did the framing.   

[Gray_Area]

The wife says he wasn't angry about the mixup and spent more time eyeing the pins than he did the framing.   

He knows where to come with a flatbed when you're on vacation....heh.....or maybe he has some, too......

[ChadTower]

Everybody spends more time eyeing the arcade games than they do whatever they came to do.   I'm sure this happens to everybody with more than one or two games.  A few weeks ago I upgraded my dishwasher and sold the older one on CL.  An older couple showed up and the guy had zero interest in the dishwasher as soon as he saw the Pole Position.  He just handed me the money for the dishwasher and kept asking "so do you sell arcade games too?"

That's especially funny because my PP is ugly as hell.  Plays well but the cabinet is going to need a lot of love.

[lilshawn]

The wife says he wasn't angry about the mixup and spent more time eyeing the pins than he did the framing.   

the cookies and coffee youv'e been bringing are helping

[ChadTower]

UPDATE:

Just passed the rough electrical inspection.  He did tell me that a couple of things are borderline.  The primary thing is that my wires should be 6" long once entering each box.  Mine aren't.  I didn't know there's a min length so I made them all "as long as they need to be" so you could still pull the receptacle out and work on it.  But it's not 6".  The other is that I don't have tamper resistant outlets and that's code for homes now.

I can switch out the outlets, no big deal.  The wire issue would be a bigger deal, and he said he'd make an issue if I weren't the homeowner, but since I am he suggested a compromise.  In his opinion it's safe if I replace the breakers with AFCI breakers (arc fault circuit interrupters).  He said the short wires should not ever cause an issue, but just on the miniscule chance it does, the arc fault breakers will catch that and shut the circuit down.  He also suggested GFCI outlets on the first in each circuit just to be double sure.  I can make those changes.  It's a lot better than having to rerun all of the romex and in his judgement it is passing the safety requirements of the code. 


Remediate steps:  Replace the outlets with tamper resistant outlets.  First outlet in each circuit is to be GFCI/tamper resistant.  Replace breakers with AFCI. 

Next steps after that:  Fiberglass insulation between the joists and the insulation phase building inspection.  And a few pictures so this thread is less boring.

[lilshawn]

good tips. it's always good to know little tidbits of info like that... that way when your friend is putting in a box and he's all like, "How long do i have to leave these wires??" 6 inches. bam! done.

[ChadTower]

Insulation!

[ChadTower]

Okay, so, next steps:

1)  Clear out a lot more of that stuff in the middle of the room.
2)  Insulation phase building inspection.
3)  Begin drywall.

[Vigo]

Sound like you got your work cut out for you with step one alone.

[ChadTower]

UPDATE:

The air exchanger has arrived.  I ended up picking this one from The Energy Concsious.  It shipped quickly arrived in only a few days so props to the retailer.  The same exchanger was selling locally at Grainger for $1200.  Thank god for online retail.  I grabbed this on/off humidistat controller too.  I probably could have installed this prior to the insulation and then placed the vents into the walls themselves but meh.  I can put them in the ceiling and they'll do the job.  I still need to figure out how many lines I need off of this.  I'm not sure yet if I can put intake on one side of the basement and outflow on the other side or if I need to put in more lines than that.  The whole area is going to be open, no internal walls, so that is probably a major factor.

[ChadTower]

UPDATE:

Just passed the insulation building inspection.  Not a lot to this one but one key nugget from the inspector.  Can't have any rigid insulation extending beyond the framed wall and exposed.  I have that on both ends just a bit.  I was told I could cut that off the wall or I could extend the framing to cover it.  I need to extend that framing out just a bit on both ends anyway so the geometry is a bit better for drywall mounting.  So no big deal there.

The building inspector was very interested in where I bought the air exchanger and how much I paid.  He said he has been seeing people recently quoted ridiculous prices by contractors to have them installed.  One guy was told $3000.  Now, I don't know what the ducting entails in that house, but I paid $650 for this and the controller.  Still have to buy the ducting.  The local Grainger wanted $1200 for the same exchanger.  So there is definitely a ton of middlemen profit going on there.


Next steps: 

1)  Clear out more stuff.  (still haven't done that)
2)  Extend framing one more member on one side and around the corner about 3' on the other side.
3)  Insulate those spots.
4)  Buy drywall and do some reading on best methods.
5)  Somehow find time to mount drywall before camping season starts.  This one might not happen and if it doesn't then we're looking at a project slowdown over the summer.

[mcseforsale]

FIFY!

UPDATE:

Just passed the insulation building inspection.  Not a lot to this one but one key nugget from the inspector.  Can't have any rigid insulation extending beyond the framed wall and exposed.  I have that on both ends just a bit.  I was told I could cut that off the wall or I could extend the framing to cover it.  I need to extend that framing out just a bit on both ends anyway so the geometry is a bit better for drywall mounting.  So no big deal there.

The building inspector was very interested in where I bought the air exchanger and how much I paid.  He said he has been seeing people recently quoted ridiculous prices by contractors to have them installed.  One guy was told $3000.  Now, I don't know what the ducting entails in that house, but I paid $650 for this and the controller.  Still have to buy the ducting.  The local Grainger wanted $1200 for the same exchanger.  So there is definitely a ton of middlemen profit going on there.


Next steps: 

1)  Clear out more stuff.  (still haven't done that)
2)  Extend framing one more member on one side and around the corner about 3' on the other side.
3)  Insulate those spots.
4)  Buy drywall and do some reading on best methods.
5)  Somehow find time to mount drywall before camping season starts.  This one might not happen and if it doesn't then we're looking at a project slowdown over the summer.
6.) Learn how to install exchangers and charge obscene amounts to install them and take the profit and build more arcade cabs.

[ChadTower]

 

Took me a minute to find what you added.

[Gray_Area]

 

Took me a minute to find what you added.

Yeah, the little quick-reply box can easily deceive.....

[ChadTower]

Had all day saturday to drywall but it was raining off and on all day.  Couldn't risk getting caught in a downpour with a load of sheets in the truck.   


I made the small framing changes on the ends that the building inspector suggested, moved a lot of the stuff out of that room, and put up the 2x4 support blocks that from which will hang the black shop lights.  Totally ready to drywall and paint those supports black.


I am considering ways of incorporating these into the room somehow.  It would be pretty cool to have a contiguous strip around the perimeter of the room with an RGB chase.  Maybe putting it in a small gap on top of the molding near the ceiling.  I'm not sure that will go well with the flat black ceiling, though, and I'd prefer not to have direct view on the LEDs themselves.  Another possibility is a string that is mounted on the underside of the pins with velcro.  A chase that goes around the underside of each pin cabinet would be pretty cool.

[TopJimmyCooks]

Consider calling a drywall supplier and getting the drywall delivered.  It's a small order but it would be worth it to pay a delivery fee and have them stock the job.  I.e. two burly dudes carry it into your basement and lay it on the floor.  Well worth it.  A 1/2 ton pickup can only safely carry about 10 sheets of  1/2" 4x8 gyp. 

I would have said just get the sheetrock done, it's worth it--but then I remembered you're in Taxachusetts where any construction work costs double what it does in the rest of the country. 

be careful - easy to hurt your back messing with sheetrock.  Walls aren't that bad but ceilings suck without help or a lift.

[ChadTower]

Heh, my 14 year old son and I just bought 7 sheets tonight and carried it into the basement.  Not so bad with a couple of drywall carrying handles.  Only hard part really was angling it so it would fit through the bulkhead.  I think I'm going to need 9-10 all told but this is a start.

My Tacoma had no issues whatsoever with 7 sheets.  Why would a 1/2 ton have issues with 10?

[TopJimmyCooks]

You didn't say you had a 14 yo available!

[leapinlew]

I just finished my basement (pics soon to follow) and I purchased 60+ sheets of drywall. Lowes delivered them and carried them into the basement for $2 a sheet. Well worth it for my setup.

[ChadTower]

Nice!  $2/sheet is a pretty good service.

With such limited spare time to do the work, if I had to arrange for delivery on Lowes' timetable, I'd probably end up waiting for weeks to get the stupid sheets into the house.  These days I am literally tossing in 45 minutes of work at a time.

[lilshawn]

keep picking away at it. every little bit gets you that much closer. 

[Gray_Area]

Forty-five minutes is much better than ten or fifteen.

[ChadTower]

Sure is! 

Tonight my son and I hung the first piece of drywall.  I didn't plan the mount points properly, though, and we ended up an inch short of one of the studs.  This is the first piece we've ever mounted and we learned a couple of small bits.  So that's good.

First thing is that when you're putting in electrical boxes think ahead to where your drywall seams will be.  Don't put them where there is likely to be a drywall seam.  We have one box on this sheet that is right on the 48" edge.  Bit of a pain.

Second thing is now I know why you do rough wiring, then insulation, then drywall, and then outlets.  The outlets are a bit in the way when putting up the drywall.  I can manage, I think, without having to pull out all of the outlets but it would be easier if they weren't there yet.

Third thing is to be sure of how you're going to do your drywall butting when you plan the cut.  That's what I did wrong this time, and once I dry fitted the piece, it was about an inch short when I put it where I wanted the butt joint to be on the corner.  Oops.  No biggie.  The knowledge more valuable than that half sheet of drywall.

Sort of hard to tell from the photo but the issue is that the piece is about an inch short of the leftmost stud.  The left edge is not supported by wood.  I'm going to pull that down this weekend and put a sheet up the right way for another start.

[mcseforsale]

Meh.  If it's just an inch, sister another 2x4 on the inner edge and call it a lesson.  Believe me, looking at the "craftsmanship" of my professionally done basement after taking down a couple of walls, you'd be surprised where the "pros" put the leftover lumber.

AJ

[TopJimmyCooks]

outlets and switches - the ears are designed to rest on the wallboard.  you'll have to unscrew them from the box and turn them at an angle.  Tape over the wire screws if they're hot. 

I'm curious about why you didn't just stand up the boards vertically.  You'll have a lot less joints and no butt joints, only tapered edge joints which are easier.  I wouldn't want hired pro's to do it on a high profile job, but for  a dark basement it's how I would do it. 

[ChadTower]

I was going to do them all the tall way but I was given a ton of advice to not do it that way.  Apparently floor to ceiling joints are difficult to hide.  I agree that it's easier that way and I might just do that.

Ears ON the wallboard... got it.  In that outlet I have them under it.  I looked at a couple existing outlets upstairs and they aren't on it as the hole is slightly larger than the outlets.  Now that I think about it, however, they CAN'T be under it.  If they are then I won't be able to pull them out for the final wiring inspection.

[ChadTower]

Grrr.

Attempt #2 didn't succeed either.  This time I cut a piece to go vertically, measured up nicely, went to dry fit it... couldn't quite get it in because the piece is 86" measured ceiling to joists with a half inch gap.  So I can butt it to the joists and then leave a half inch gap at the floor.  Sounds good, yes?  No.  Apparently the floor concrete varies just enough that I had to tetris that thing into place against the wall.  Then I find out I need about another half inch off.  So, I do the razor blade cut, but a half inch never just snaps off, it comes off in a billion pieces stuck to paper.  So that takes a while.

I get that piece up and nail it in place with 4 drywall nails as the guides suggest.  Then I go to work cutting the outlet holes.  There are two outlets on this piece.  I get the first cut with a handsaw, which is a major pain with the outlets there, but I do it.  Then I go to work on the second one.  This hole is a bit harder because down that low there are no nails to avoid flexing the piece too much while it's against the protruding outlets.  I finally get the second hole cut... go to press the piece flush to the wall at the bottom... and the holes don't line up.  While I was cutting the second hole, the piece shifted by about an inch, and now I can't get it over both boxes. 

 

Okay, so the ugly truth, is that I'm going to have to pull off all the outlets and switches.  Not long after changing all the outlets at the instruction of the wiring inspector.  Grr.  I can do that. 

I pull the piece off the wall, throw it into a scrap pile, and go to vacuum up all the dust I made hand cutting those holes.  The vacuum doesn't work.  Takes me 5 mins to remove something that looks like a tribble from the hose and it's working again.  I start sucking up all of the dust.  I turn around and notice that the vacuum is shooting all of the dust up into the air instead of collecting it.  I open the vacuum up and the filter on the output is ripped.  All I did was distribute the dust all over the basement. 

 

So I make a new filter out of an old T shirt and get the mess as cleaned up as I can.  Everything down here has a fine white powder on it now.  Sonofabitch.

I am about to go upstairs and I notice my wife has put a nicely folded pile of my work pants on the stair railing.  Didn't balance it well.  I only notice the pile of freshly laundered black dress pants when I see it fall onto the white dusty floor.

 

Now I sit here with a jar of blueberry moonshine waiting for my second work shift to start at midnight.  Hopefully I'm a little less ticked off by then or I'm going to have to mute my conference phone for nearly the whole shift.

[brihyn]

a pain to remove all of the outlets, but definitely worth it!
I remodeled the basement of my first house...even at the time I knew it wasn't my "forever home" and therefore considered it my practice house. I made tons of mistakes, but knew that most likely no one else but me would ever know. And after seeing how the previous owner did things, I was still a ways ahead.
This house came with an unfinished basement, so I was able to put a LOT of lessons to use. Still made mistakes, but i know that I'm the only one that could ever find the vast majority of them.

One quick tip that may help: Once you have the outlets off of the electrical boxes, and you have your sheetrock cut to fit the wall section, put something on the electrical box (paint, marker, anything that'll transfer). Put the sheetrock up into place, and lightly press it against the box. Voila, if you did it right, you'll have a marking of where to cut the hole for the box. Saved me a lot of time.

[ChadTower]

Thanks for the tip on marking the boxes.  I had thought of using chalk, actually, but with the outlets in it was of no use.  Now that I'm going to take them out I might try a light outline of wet paint. 

Another way I found was to get a drywall bit for the rotary tool.  Then I can sort of "route" around the boxes once I've found the edge. 

[brihyn]

I hadn't thought of Chalk...that might work really slick. Paint was kinda a pain, as it was just always "in the way", and I tried using a black permanent marker, which worked well enough, but I think chalk may be a great idea. If you do that, lemme know how it works.

[TopJimmyCooks]

Uh, CT, rotary tools were developed for drywall work - if you mean a rotozip.  If you mean dremel - that's different obviously.  the way the pros usually do it is to screw the board up over the box, eyeball or measure to the center of the box, plunge the pilot point rotozip bit inside the box, route to the edge of the box, pull out and replunge an 1/8" over to the outside of the box, and run the bit around piloting on the outside of the box.  then the gyp will lay flat on the studs and you can finish the wallboard attachment.  If you have a dremel def. get the drywall bit and do this.  rotozip-even better.

[lilshawn]

Uh, CT, rotary tools were developed for drywall work - if you mean a rotozip.  If you mean dremel - that's different obviously.  the way the pros usually do it is to screw the board up over the box, eyeball or measure to the center of the box, plunge the pilot point rotozip bit inside the box, route to the edge of the box, pull out and replunge an 1/8" over to the outside of the box, and run the bit around piloting on the outside of the box.  then the gyp will lay flat on the studs and you can finish the wallboard attachment.  If you have a dremel def. get the drywall bit and do this.  rotozip-even better.

as a rotozip owner i can attest to this. It's the bomb diggity. works awesome on suspended ceiling tiles too for pot lights speakers etc.

[ChadTower]

Uh, CT, rotary tools were developed for drywall work - if you mean a rotozip.  If you mean dremel - that's different obviously.  the way the pros usually do it is to screw the board up over the box, eyeball or measure to the center of the box, plunge the pilot point rotozip bit inside the box, route to the edge of the box, pull out and replunge an 1/8" over to the outside of the box, and run the bit around piloting on the outside of the box.  then the gyp will lay flat on the studs and you can finish the wallboard attachment.  If you have a dremel def. get the drywall bit and do this.  rotozip-even better.

My rotary tool is a Black and Decker... it can probably do it, but it's not a Dremel, and it's not a Rotozip, so there's always the chance it won't get the job done.  I'll just have to upgrade to a better rotary tool if it can't do it.  That would be awful... just terrible...

[Monkeyvoodoo]

Another option for marking holes is using lipstick. Doesn't dry out too quickly and transfers nicely.

[leapinlew]

I was able to mount all my drywall in about 45 seconds. Maybe less.... however long it takes to write a check.

[Nephasth]

When vacuuming up dust, the t-shirt as a filter is a good idea, even better though, dampening the shirt well stop the dust.

As for hanging drywall, I do it horizontally like you started off. But, I put up the bottom piece first. I'll cut one tapered edge off the sheet. This edge will be the bottom edge. I'll put a couple of shims down on the floor to get my desired gap, and rest the sheet on the shims while screwing it to the studs. Then I can rest to top sheet on the top edge of the bottom sheet while securing it to the studs. Much easier to just hold that top sheet against the studs, than trying to hold it against them and up at the same time.

Outlet and switch boxes, just a lot of measuring and a jigsaw here. Never had a problem doing it that way. I've never installed the outlets or switches before hanging the drywall.

[ChadTower]

I was able to mount all my drywall in about 45 seconds. Maybe less.... however long it takes to write a check.

Heh, I already know how to write a check, though.  Half the purpose of this project is so my son and I can learn as much as possible in the process.  If I hadn't taken that project view then I'd be annoyed as hell that a simple gameroom is taking me months and eating up every second of what little spare time I have these days.   

[mcseforsale]

+1.  Almost everything that I know about building things...especially the confidence that I CAN, came from watching Dad putter around his shop building us bunkbeds, coffee tables, bookcases, etc.  He's retired from is computer management job now, but he teaches wood turning at a college in Bangor, Me.  72 and still rocking the big lathes and stuff.

AJ

I was able to mount all my drywall in about 45 seconds. Maybe less.... however long it takes to write a check.

Heh, I already know how to write a check, though.  Half the purpose of this project is so my son and I can learn as much as possible in the process.  If I hadn't taken that project view then I'd be annoyed as hell that a simple gameroom is taking me months and eating up every second of what little spare time I have these days.   

[leapinlew]

I was able to mount all my drywall in about 45 seconds. Maybe less.... however long it takes to write a check.

Heh, I already know how to write a check, though.  Half the purpose of this project is so my son and I can learn as much as possible in the process.  If I hadn't taken that project view then I'd be annoyed as hell that a simple gameroom is taking me months and eating up every second of what little spare time I have these days.   

I know what you mean, but certain aspects of my build I hired out. The lesson there is, no one can do everything. I hired out the framing, plumbing, electrical, drywall and drywall finishing, lol. I laid the carpet, paint, decorating, baseboards and other trim work. It still took months to do.

Over the years, and many attempts, I've learned I just can't do drywall as well as I like it done.

[ChadTower]

Over the years, and many attempts, I've learned I just can't do drywall as well as I like it done.

I hear ya.  I'm not looking for perfection in this room.  If I do a half decent job, that's cool, it's a dark basement room as mentioned above.  I'm not willing to settle for total suckjob, though, so I'm taking down the stupid attempts and considering them lessons.   

[ChadTower]

Been a while since I updated.  Two reasons:  1)  Camping season started and that eats up a lot of our weekends this time of year.   2)  We were busy working on the gameroom!



Drywall is up now.  We eventually figured out some methods that, while they may or may not be awesome, were effective.  The drywall bit for a rotary tool is a lifesaver.  Be careful with it if you use plastic boxes, though, because you can chew the box edge up a bit with it.  I did that in a couple of places that won't matter in the long run.  There is only one spot where it didn't quite hit the stud edge the right way and is floating for a few inches.  I can cover that up with mud, since it floats into the wall, and hopefully with pins there nobody will go punching that spot. 

Subflooring is in.  The Dricore panels are really easy to work with once you get the hang of how to cut them.  They cut easily like any wood but it's really easy to trim off the wrong edge and end up cutting off a groove side where you wanted the groove to remain.  Or cut off the tongue when you needed that side.  My son and I were able to do this whole ~300sqft room, with stuff in it, in a weekend.  With no specific experience.  Yeah, it's not rocket science, but newbie is newbie.  This stuff isn't cheap but it's easy to DIY and it looks good.

[ChadTower]

There are supposed to be four photos there but the forum seems to be having issues serving them consistently tonight.  They're attached to the Project Announcements thread the way we usually do around here...