Who hacked PSN?

[HaRuMaN]

It's been down for 5 days in a row now.  Anonymous says it wasn't them, but that doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't...

This is affecting my Gran Turismo playing...  grr 

[SavannahLion]

Rumor has it that the attack is a message to Sony to back off on the other witch hunts to third parties related to Geohut. Remember? Sony subpoenaed ISPs and Websites for a list of IP addresses and names of whoever downloaded his code. I don't know how true this is because I don't know the full settlement details between Geohut and Sony.

True, it may or may not be Anonymous. The group isn't a single entity but more of a mob. The mob doesn't have to move in its entirety to be effective, just en masse. A single person in control of a large enough Zombie network can easily take down PSN and still have computing power for another target.

[Hoopz]

Skynet. 

[SavannahLion]

Skynet. 

LOL, Skynet may indeed be a member of Anonymous.

[HaRuMaN]

Remember Lik-Sang?

Sony drove them out of business years ago...   

http://www.lik-sang.com/

[spoot]

Five days long seems like an internal server boom imho and they dont' want to admit it. 

[Hoopz]

Skynet. 

LOL, Skynet may indeed be a member of Anonymous.

I think it's the other way around; Anonymous is a part of Skynet.  

All your base....

It's ALL a plot.

[Mikezilla]

Skynet. 

LOL, Skynet may indeed be a member of Anonymous.

I think it's the other way around; Anonymous is a part of Skynet.  

All your base....

It's ALL a plot.

Holy god that was great. 

[SavannahLion]

Remember Lik-Sang?

Sony drove them out of business years ago...   

http://www.lik-sang.com/

I will never forgive Sony for that.

[SavannahLion]

Skynet. 

LOL, Skynet may indeed be a member of Anonymous.

I think it's the other way around; Anonymous is a part of Skynet.  

All your base....

It's ALL a plot.

Holy god that was great. 

I was secretly hoping for Jane instead.

[Mikezilla]

Remember Lik-Sang?

Sony drove them out of business years ago...   

http://www.lik-sang.com/

I will never forgive Sony for that.

I have a work filter that wont let me access that link. Can someone explain what it was?

[SNAAKE]

Remember Lik-Sang?

Sony drove them out of business years ago...   

http://www.lik-sang.com/

 

LOL

[SNAAKE]

Rumor has it that the attack is a message to Sony to back off on the other witch hunts to third parties related to Geohut. Remember? Sony subpoenaed ISPs and Websites for a list of IP addresses and names of whoever downloaded his code. I don't know how true this is because I don't know the full settlement details between Geohut and Sony.

thats the dumbest thing EVER though. what are you gonna even if you know who downloaded "dat geohot code". what..take 9 zillion people to court for downloading that cfw and for going to geohot's site?

lol..

microsoft can see who's playing bootleg games online. worst they'd do is ban that console. they dont go after anyone that went to xbox-scene and red about the haxxorz. less stupidity and more acquiring currency

[quadrider1]

Well sony will be hated forever if this is true,
http://psx-scene.com/forums/f6/old-psn-not-safe-day-5-5-your-personal-data-may-had-been-stolen-85343/
All your unencrypted credit card data stolen, tiss tiss when will they learn.

[HaRuMaN]

Good thing the last credit card I used with PSN is now expired... 

[Firebat138]

Use the latest LT+ and MS cant see a thing.....  For now anyways.  :-)

[ark_ader]

I find it all very amusing.

[SNAAKE]

terry crews is NOT amused!

[DaveMMR]

Yeah this is annoying.  It doesn't affect Netflix (only a couple of log-in screens pop-up but you can dismiss them and still get on) but I just got Portal 2 and I can't get my free PC copy because I have to go through PSN to complete the transaction (and no, I can't play it on my PS3 right now because my gf is watching TV; though she did join me on some co-op play). 

From what I read, there were plans for anonymous to attack PSN in the past but a vocal group of gamers more or less told them not to as it would hurt more people than it would help.   So I can sort of believe it was not them.   It may very well be a random intruder catching Sony with its pants down. 

[Necroticart]

I'm almost positive Sony shut down it's servers because of the rebug CFW it allowed you to create a dev PSN account to play online connecting directly to the game servers. the thing about being on the dev PSN was you could fill in fake CC info and fill your wallet to make purchases off the dev PSN which has the same content as the regular PSN. Note I know about this but like many of us that have CFW I only copy over games I own and I enjoy the emulators. those looking to connect to the PSN are the ones who don't need CFW.

[SNAAKE]

^ anyone with a jailbroken ps3 can already get ALL psn game ever came out from torrents....................

that cant be the reason at all. xbox live doesnt shut down because people go online with a modded xbox. there is some other BS going on. they really did get hacked or/and psn security was compromised.

[SavannahLion]

Rumor has it that the attack is a message to Sony to back off on the other witch hunts to third parties related to Geohut. Remember? Sony subpoenaed ISPs and Websites for a list of IP addresses and names of whoever downloaded his code. I don't know how true this is because I don't know the full settlement details between Geohut and Sony.

thats the dumbest thing EVER though. what are you gonna even if you know who downloaded "dat geohot code". what..take 9 zillion people to court for downloading that cfw and for going to geohot's site?

lol..

microsoft can see who's playing bootleg games online. worst they'd do is ban that console. they dont go after anyone that went to xbox-scene and red about the haxxorz. less stupidity and more acquiring currency

Thought about telling Sony that?

[SavannahLion]

Remember Lik-Sang?

Sony drove them out of business years ago...   

http://www.lik-sang.com/

I will never forgive Sony for that.

I have a work filter that wont let me access that link. Can someone explain what it was?

Lik-Sang used to be an exporter for all sorts of stuff console related (and some not console related), a lot of white and gray market stuff. They became really well known for exporting mod related stuff. They never exported anything illegal such as copied games (AFAIK), but they did sell the tools to create copied games or to play copied games. They also sold a ton of stuff that weren't so gray market. Case mods. Region free DVD players. A lot of stuff that were exclusive to the Japanese market.

IIRC, Sony and Lik-Sang tangled twice. The first time knocked Lik-Sang around pretty badly and they pulled all of their mod related merchandise. The second round was when they sold the PSP in regions where the console wasn't released yet, namely Europe. According the Lik-Sang... well.... read for yourself. Here is the full text as it exists on their website today:

Lik-Sang.com Out of Business due to Multiple Sony Lawsuits
Tue Oct 24 2006 21:58:51 Hong Kong Time - Corporate Info

OUT OF BUSINESS NOTICE

Hong Kong, October 24th of 2006 - Lik-Sang.com, the popular gaming retailer from Hong Kong, has today announced that it is forced to close down due to multiple legal actions brought against it by Sony Computer Entertainment Europe Limited and Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. Sony claimed that Lik-Sang infringed its trade marks, copyright and registered design rights by selling Sony PSP consoles from Asia to European customers, and have recently obtained a judgment in the High Court of London (England) rendering Lik-Sang's sales of PSP consoles unlawful.

As of today, Lik-Sang.com will not be in the position to accept any new orders and will cancel and refund all existing orders that have already been placed. Furthermore, Lik-Sang is working closely with banks and PayPal to refund any store credits held by the company, and the customer support department is taking care of any open transactions such as pending RMAs or repairs and shipping related matters. The staff of Lik-Sang will make sure that nobody will get hurt in the crossfire of this ordeal.

A Sony spokesperson declined to comment directly on the lawsuit against Lik-Sang, but recently went on to tell Gamesindustry.biz that "ultimately, we're trying to protect consumers from being sold hardware that does not conform to strict EU or UK consumer safety standards, due to voltage supply differences et cetera; is not - in PS3's case - backwards compatible with either PS1 or PS2 software; will not play European Blu-Ray movies or DVDs; and will not be covered by warranty".

Lik Sang strongly disagrees with Sony's opinion that their customers need this kind of protection and pointed out that PSP consoles shipped from Lik-Sang contained genuine Sony 100V-240V AC Adapters that carry CE and other safety marks and are compatible world wide. All PSP consoles were in conformity with all EU and UK consumer safety regulations.

Furthermore, Sony have failed to disclose to the London High Court that not only the world wide gaming community in more than 100 countries relied on Lik-Sang for their gaming needs, but also Sony Europe's very own top directors repeatedly got their Sony PSP hard or software imports in nicely packed Lik-Sang parcels with free Lik-Sang Mugs or Lik-Sang Badge Holders, starting just two days after Japan's official release, as early as 14th of December 2004 (more than nine months earlier than the legal action). The list of PSP related Sony Europe orders reads like the who's who of the videogames industry, and includes Ray Maguire (Managing Director, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe Ltd), Alan Duncan (UK Marketing Director, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe Ltd), Chris Sorrell (Creative Director, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe Ltd), Rob Parkin (Development Director, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe Limited), just to name a few.

"Today is Sony Europe victory about PSP, tomorrow is Sony Europe’s ongoing pressure about PlayStation 3. With this precedent set, next week could already be the stage for complaints from Sony America about the same thing, or from other console manufacturers about other consoles to other regions, or even from any publisher about any specific software title to any country they don’t see fit. It’s the beginning of the end... of the World as we know it", stated Pascal Clarysse, formerly known as the Marketing Manager of Lik-Sang.com.

"Blame it on Sony. That's the latest dark spot in their shameful track record as gaming industry leader. The Empire finally 'won', few dominating retailers from the UK probably will rejoice the news, but everybody else in the gaming world lost something today."

Interestingly the registration expires August 30, 2011 but the site was closed 2006. Might as well visit it now before the site is lost forever to some moronic squatter.

[shateredsoul]

[Necroticart]

^ anyone with a jailbroken ps3 can already get ALL psn game ever came out from torrents....................

that cant be the reason at all. xbox live doesnt shut down because people go online with a modded xbox. there is some other BS going on. they really did get hacked or/and psn security was compromised.

well most of them anyway the license keys are still needed to play certain games MVC2 for example. Without them the game is just a demo and the keys are encrypted on most of the later games and specific to the system I only know this because I bought MVC2 from the PSN and forgot to download it to my PS3 before I installed CFW anyway I looked into it.

As for banning modded consoles Sony is having a hard time doing that because they use the system ID to ban users which anyone with CFW can change and your probably going to say just ban the CFW users well that does't work either because they can spoof the console to make it appear to be running the latest firmware.

Basically as an end result Sony had to fix the network (PSN downtime) and the loop holes which will mean a firmware update on the users side some other way of banning besides the system ID.

[Malenko]

Second - Lik-Sang sold so much illegal stuff it's not even funny and they made it exceptionally easy for nervous teenagers with mom's credit card to get their hands on it.

Thats what made them awesome. Only thing I ever bought from them was the Playstation 1 memory card thingie with a built in LCD that hooked into Street Fighter Alpha 3 and let you download a mini game into it, pre-Dreamcast........ pocketstation? it was neat but the games on Nintendo's game and watch were more enthralling

[Mikezilla]

Thank you Savannah for posting that. Hm. Interesting. Man. Sony is a bunch of ---Deutsche Frankfurters---. I love how they label it as a safetyl standard for regulating voltage. Cmon. 

[quadrider1]

stores are getting smart, M$ is going to love this.
http://psx-scene.com/forums/f6/psn-still-dead-after-160-hours-what-do-trade-your-ps3-85343/
Trade your 120GB ps3 in for 250GB xbox elite lol only $30

[Vigo]

 

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/04/sony-admits-utter-psn-failure-your-personal-data-has-been-stolen.ars

[SNAAKE]

^ see its not about people downloading psn games or being on cfw. thats not reason enough to completely shut down servers.

pretty sure I took my credit card info. gonna close that account just to be safe. I wasnt using it at all anyway.

[DNA Dan]

Finally hit the mainstream media --> http://blog.games.yahoo.com/blog/630-hackers-take-down-sonys-playstation-network

Sony seems to be impervious to bad press. I know plenty of gamers who had their PS3's bricked after firmware updates (mine included) yet the press just does not jump on big old sony. Almost like toyota, if it weren't for the fact that the defects involved safety, no one in the media at the time would ever bash them.  

[SavannahLion]

Lik-Sang used to be an exporter for all sorts of stuff console related (and some not console related), a lot of white and gray market stuff. They became really well known for exporting mod related stuff. They never exported anything illegal such as copied games (AFAIK), but they did sell the tools to create copied games or to play copied games. They also sold a ton of stuff that weren't so gray market. Case mods. Region free DVD players. A lot of stuff that were exclusive to the Japanese market.

First - please read what 'gray market' actually means before you keep misusing it.  "A lot of stuff that were exclusive to the Japanese market" = gray market.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_market

A grey market or gray market also known as parallel market[1] is the trade of a commodity through distribution channels which, while legal, are unofficial, unauthorized, or unintended by the original manufacturer.

Second - Lik-Sang sold so much illegal stuff it's not even funny and they made it exceptionally easy for nervous teenagers with mom's credit card to get their hands on it.

In your country, that might be true.

[Mikezilla]

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/04/sony-admits-utter-psn-failure-your-personal-data-has-been-stolen.ars

God that sucks. What a pain in the ass. I just started my PSN account recently too. I knew I should have procrastinated longer.

[lilshawn]

I'm sure Sony will fix this for you for a $10 fee...



Sony does apologize for the inconvenience...  kthxbye




All your base are belong to us.

[hypernova]

And for all these reasons, we should all boycott Sony as best as possible.  Now, to be fair, all three console makers initially went after lik-sang for the modding accessories, but only Sony was ---uvula--- enough to go after them again for selling Japanese PSPs in Europe.

The Sony fanboy at my work is FINALLY starting to get miffed.  I told him at least he's still got his 360 Live account working.  No answer...

I'm really enjoying watching Sony fail in every possible way.  Now if it would just start hitting their damn wallets, maybe all of this would actually mean something.  Awhile ago, I would've killed for a FF7 remake, even if I had to buy a PS# (whatever number they're on) to play it.  Now even if it is a PS# exclusive, I'll just have to live without it.  Until it's emulated years later, of course.

[lilshawn]

Ive never ever owned a PlayStation of any #

Any Sony branded product I've ever purchased was terrible, from TV's and telephones to stereos and pregnancy tests. There wasn't one thing from Sony I didn't have to fix (or try to)

[SavannahLion]

And for all these reasons, we should all boycott Sony as best as possible. 

Keep in mind, that may prove impossible. Sony is pervasive in just about every industry out there. Boycotting them is about as effective as boycotting Disney. Even if you don't buy anything directly from Sony, you're still going to send money indrectly.  

Now, to be fair, all three console makers initially went after lik-sang for the modding accessories, but only Sony was ---uvula--- enough to go after them again for selling Japanese PSPs in Europe.

That is typical of Sony. They were probably still smarting from Bleem! and wanted to drive a nail into Lik-Sang's coffin. I'm sorely disappointed in Sony and their recent 180 turn from their VHS days.

[SNAAKE]

I totally forgot about bleem

[Hoopz]

Ive never ever owned a PlayStation of any #

Any Sony branded product I've ever purchased was terrible, from TV's and telephones to stereos and pregnancy tests. There wasn't one thing from Sony I didn't have to fix (or try to)

WTF?

[Dartful Dodger]

I want to see a tutorial on how he tried to fix one.

[SavannahLion]

Ive never ever owned a PlayStation of any #

Any Sony branded product I've ever purchased was terrible, from TV's and telephones to stereos and pregnancy tests. There wasn't one thing from Sony I didn't have to fix (or try to)

WTF?

Probably something from Sony Medical. Actually, not really. Probably one of their subsidiaries make pregnancy test kits.

[Mikezilla]

Or, he might have totally been joking. 

[Hoopz]

This may be the most disturbing thread ever on BYOAC.  Seriously.

[Mikezilla]

This may be the most disturbing thread ever on BYOAC.  Seriously.

 

[Vigo]

I want to see a tutorial on how he tried to fix one.

By Fix, maybe he meant rig, cuz I want to se a tutorial on how to rig a pregnancy test.

Best. April. Fools. Joke. Ever.

[Mikezilla]

I want to see a tutorial on how he tried to fix one.

By Fix, maybe he meant rig, cuz I want to se a tutorial on how to rig a pregnancy test.

Best. April. Fools. Joke. Ever.

You ever had one of those scares Vigo? ---smurfin--- scariest ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- EVER. Except going to the clinic and waiting for a HIV test after have a ONS when you raw dogged it. And it was back in the day when it took 5 days to get the results back and they had to MAIL THEM TO YOU. 

Still though. Thats messed up. 

[Hoopz]

You ever had one of those scares Vigo? ---smurfin--- scariest ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- EVER. Except going to the clinic and waiting for a HIV test after have a ONS when you raw dogged it. And it was back in the day when it took 5 days to get the results back and they had to MAIL THEM TO YOU. 

Still though. Thats messed up. 

This may be the most disturbing thread ever on BYOAC.  Seriously.

[Mikezilla]

Even more disturbing than my GF wetting the bed thread? That had a few gems in it as well. 

[DNA Dan]

Got a link to that thread

[Vigo]

I want to see a tutorial on how he tried to fix one.

By Fix, maybe he meant rig, cuz I want to se a tutorial on how to rig a pregnancy test.

Best. April. Fools. Joke. Ever.

You ever had one of those scares Vigo? ---smurfin--- scariest ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- EVER. Except going to the clinic and waiting for a HIV test after have a ONS when you raw dogged it. And it was back in the day when it took 5 days to get the results back and they had to MAIL THEM TO YOU. 

Still though. Thats messed up. 

No, thankfully..but I have seen enough friends have the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- completely scared out of them (or their life changed overnight) to make me thankful that I survived being a bachelor unscathed.

[Mikezilla]

I want to see a tutorial on how he tried to fix one.

By Fix, maybe he meant rig, cuz I want to se a tutorial on how to rig a pregnancy test.

Best. April. Fools. Joke. Ever.

You ever had one of those scares Vigo? ---smurfin--- scariest ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- EVER. Except going to the clinic and waiting for a HIV test after have a ONS when you raw dogged it. And it was back in the day when it took 5 days to get the results back and they had to MAIL THEM TO YOU. 

Still though. Thats messed up. 

No, thankfully..but I have seen enough friends have the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- completely scared out of them (or their life changed overnight) to make me thankful that I survived being a bachelor unscathed.

Lucky you friend. I was scared of girls for a long time. Diseases that could kill you, and the ability to suck the life out of you with a smaller version of yourself. It wont kill you quickly, just a slow agonizing death.  Girls are scary.

[Vigo]

Your fear is very rational. After all, there is mathematical proof that girls are evil. 

[ark_ader]

Even more disturbing than my GF wetting the bed thread? That had a few gems in it as well. 

You didn't tell us your GF was pissing out gems.

Tell us more!

[Mikezilla]

Your fear is very rational. After all, there is mathematical proof that girls are evil. 

Damn it, couldnt see the picture! Hell, I didnt even know there was one until I tried to quote you. 

Even more disturbing than my GF wetting the bed thread? That had a few gems in it as well. 

You didn't tell us your GF was pissing out gems.

Tell us more!

Lol that was funny. Well played. 

[Vigo]

That's right...you're on a worse work filter than I am....  

Ill just type it out (√ is a square root symbol):

Mathematical Proof that Girls are Evil:

First we state that girls require time and money.

Girls = Time X Money

And as we all know "time is money"

Time = Money

Therefore:

Girls = Money X Money = (Money²)

And Because "money is the root of all evil"

Money = √Evil

Therefore:

Girls = (√Evil)²

And we are forced to conclude:

Girls = Evil

[Donkbaca]

To get back on the subject.  I think DriverMan took down PSN as a protest to the MAMEdevs

[hypernova]

And for all these reasons, we should all boycott Sony as best as possible. 

Keep in mind, that may prove impossible. Sony is pervasive in just about every industry out there. Boycotting them is about as effective as boycotting Disney. Even if you don't buy anything directly from Sony, you're still going to send money indrectly. 

I know.  We've been through this statement before.  That's why I said "as best as possible".

[DaveMMR]

And for all these reasons, we should all boycott Sony as best as possible. 

Keep in mind, that may prove impossible. Sony is pervasive in just about every industry out there. Boycotting them is about as effective as boycotting Disney. Even if you don't buy anything directly from Sony, you're still going to send money indrectly. 

I know.  We've been through this statement before.  That's why I said "as best as possible".

Yeah, I'm probably not boycotting Sony.  What happened was a huge screw up on their part, but at the end of the day I'm not about to flush my PS investments down the toilet.

I'm upset and annoyed about this (not to mention I'm still not over their ridiculous hubris when the PS3 first came out), but I'm in it for the entertainment and as long as they provide content I enjoy, I can't see myself depriving myself of it to prove a point. 

On the other hand, I may think twice about using PSN for purchases and I won't even consider using Playstation Plus.  And, to be honest, anytime I put my credit card information out there, I'm aware of the risks of things like this happening (not only electronically, but even when I hand my card over to some minimum wage clerk at the store).   The security breach is absolutely nothing to be flip about, but I'm not ready to breakout the torches and pitchforks until we hear more definite information.   I'll just keep a close eye on my accounts and any scams attempts.

[SavannahLion]

Doesn't PSN have those prepaid debit cards you can feed in?

[amendonz]

yer, can't you just buy 'psn points' cards like the mspoints ones???

[lilshawn]

[DaveMMR]

Yes they sell the cards, so there's an option.  I also think you can buy certain games over Amazon.com. 

[Mikezilla]

Thanks for typing that out Vigo! 

See, you cant argue with math either. Its a language. And its says that girls are evil. 

[DNA Dan]

The media is turning up the heat on the skillet --> http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110428/ts_nm/us_sony

[Dartful Dodger]

U.S. regulators could get involved as well. The Federal Trade Commission has been known to pursue companies that failed to safeguard consumer data. It could investigate if it determines Sony failed to tell its customers about the company's privacy policies.

Nuts, the last time I was forced to update my system there was a user agreement that was so long I ended up putting a weight on the joystick so I didn't have to deal with scrolling through the mile long document.

Now it's going to be even more text and harder to scroll through that nonsense.

[Vigo]

U.S. regulators could get involved as well. The Federal Trade Commission has been known to pursue companies that failed to safeguard consumer data. It could investigate if it determines Sony failed to tell its customers about the company's privacy policies.

Nuts, the last time I was forced to update my system there was a user agreement that was so long I ended up putting a weight on the joystick so I didn't have to deal with scrolling through the mile long document.

Now it's going to be even more text and harder to scroll through that nonsense.

Yep, all the legal nonsense that we have to deal with only gets worse and worse every single year. To steal a bit of humor from Ben Heck's page:





http://benheck.com/Games/Nintendo_projects/N64p/N64p_VS_DS_page_1.htm

[quadrider1]

And here it is, http://psx-scene.com/forums/f6/psn-database-containing-2-2million-credit-cards-now-up-sale-85702/
2.2 million credit card info straight from sony is up for auction in the Black market, all our personal info, passwords and everything are being sold. Hurray for us.
---fudgesicle--- you sony

[DaveMMR]

And here it is, http://psx-scene.com/forums/f6/psn-database-containing-2-2million-credit-cards-now-up-sale-85702/
2.2 million credit card info straight from sony is up for auction in the Black market, all our personal info, passwords and everything are being sold. Hurray for us.
---fudgesicle--- you sony

If it's on the internet, it must be true.  

Edit: Kan't Spell

[hypernova]

Guy in that forum posted that the CVV2 codes were available as well.

According to Sony (i.e. take it with a grain of salt) the CVV2 codes were NOT included in the database that was thieved from them.  And apparently the CC numbers were encrypted (as I read that somewhere else, too) but the rest of the information was NOT.

DaveMMR, all I'm suggesting is to stay away from anything in the future that has the name SONY on it, like TVs, etc.  Yeah, you might as well get your money's worth out of this generation, but F them in the future.  I still haz my PS2 (playing FFXII Int'l Zodiac Job System right now, incidentally).  Of course, Sony isn't making any money off of it.

edit:

Even though these guys *probably* don't have the CVV2 codes, there's nothing stopping them from using all them in a crap shoot.  1/1000 shot for each card.  And I'm sure they can get a few tries off each card before it's flagged or whatever the hell CC companies do.  So 1/1000 on 2.2 million possible cards = JACKPOT!

[amendonz]

As a xbox guy gotta say i'm finding this all pretty funny, sorry guys. I guess all the free online play in the world isn't worth your deets being stolen?

[SavannahLion]

The inclusion of the CVV2 may indeed be true. I thought all credit card companies specifically require the number to be discarded after a transaction but only VISA requires that in the U.S.. PCIDSS requires it globally but I don't know the extent of their authority.

[abispac]

hey i know who haked psn.......me.

[lilshawn]

All they had to do was keep the "OTHER OS" now look what happened.

it's like buying a bicycle and the manufacturer coming to your house a few months later and removing the seat from it.

or a car manufacturer coming to my house and telling me i can't drive my car anymore because I put a Fram airfilter in it.

[northerngames]

I'm no account hacker or credit thief so I don't know how either work but I would assume if they were smart enough to hack into a multi million dollar network one of them or the handfull would have no trouble making a program to decrypt a 3 digit code with 2.2 million comparibles.

[DNA Dan]

hey i know who haked psn.......me.

FYI, I would not even joke about saying so. Unless you want the FBI knocking on your door. It's a serious felony and you go to PRISON, not some country jail.

[Malenko]

He didnt say hacked. Also, ---fudgesicle--- sony.

[SithMaster]

hey i know who haked psn.......me.

FYI, I would not even joke about saying so. Unless you want the FBI knocking on your door. It's a serious felony and you go to PRISON, not some country jail.

Wouldn't that only happen if they prove he hacked the network?

I'm still annoyed over my PS2 slim having a bad laser (design defect from the first model) so yeah, aside from everyone being inconvenienced by this, I'm happy Sony looks bad.

It was probably someone who had their PS3 banned from the network.

[Vigo]

hey i know who haked psn.......me.

FYI, I would not even joke about saying so. Unless you want the FBI knocking on your door. It's a serious felony and you go to PRISON, not some country jail.

Wouldn't that only happen if they prove he hacked the network?

I'm still annoyed over my PS2 slim having a bad laser (design defect from the first model) so yeah, aside from everyone being inconvenienced by this, I'm happy Sony looks bad.

It was probably someone who had their PS3 banned from the network.

Doesn't every sony have a defective laser?  I have gone through 3 PS1s and a PS2 before giving up on Sony products. The 2 defective sony cameras and the sony tv that went out after 3 years didn't help me any.

Yeah, sony is gonna work real hard to gain any trust from me.

[DNA Dan]

Wouldn't that only happen if they prove he hacked the network?

With the amount of money the big Sony machine has and the severity of the crime, why risk it? They're watching everything right now 

[Ginsu Victim]

So glad I passed on the PS3 and got a 360 slim.

[DaveMMR]

DaveMMR, all I'm suggesting is to stay away from anything in the future that has the name SONY on it, like TVs, etc.  Yeah, you might as well get your money's worth out of this generation, but F them in the future.  I still haz my PS2 (playing FFXII Int'l Zodiac Job System right now, incidentally).  Of course, Sony isn't making any money off of it.

I'm not going to lie to myself.  I tried avoiding the PS3 but at the end of the day I'm a gamer first and an activist last.  I wanted to play something they had to offer and there it goes.  Besides, every other day, someone on the interwebs is saying "Boycott Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft/Apple" for different reasons.  Doesn't seem like it has ever worked based on sales figures.

And you don't need to boycott anyhow - they're going to be losing plenty of money over this.

Besides, don't blame Sony for the wrong reasons.  Any company can get hacked.   What's being investigated is that they did not disclosure the nature of the attack fast enough, which is very wrong on their part.  If it's been proven they sat on this information, they're going to be nailed to the wall by entities bigger than any of us.

hey i know who haked psn.......me.

FYI, I would not even joke about saying so. Unless you want the FBI knocking on your door. It's a serious felony and you go to PRISON, not some country jail.

Wouldn't that only happen if they prove he hacked the network?

No, that would happen if they have ANY suspicion.  They don't screw around.  I've never been privy but I can't imagine having armed federal agents tearing apart your residence and confiscating your computer would be any fun. 

[RandyT]

If they retained, and allowed those 3-digit codes to be stolen, I can't imagine that this is going to end well.  An awful lot of internet retailers use that for proof of having the card in hand, because they know that it's not allowed to be retained.  Even if the 3-digit codes weren't compromised, the big danger is "phishing".  They have your name and email address associated with your card number, so it gets real easy to make the phishing attempts seem more convincing by showing you the first and/or last 4 of your card number that you think only the legit company would have.  So be even more cautious with information requests if you were affected by this breach.

I'm glad I never bought anything on PSN.

[hypernova]

Sony keeps saying they didn't store the CVV2 codes, but hey.  It's Sony.

Are the CVV2 codes based on some mathematical computation from your info/CC number?  I figured they were just randomly assigned.

Some people are reporting fraudulent charges on their cards, but of course, all this needs to be verified.

[RandyT]

Are the CVV2 codes based on some mathematical computation from your info/CC number?  I figured they were just randomly assigned.

I think your assumption is right.  They wouldn't have much value if they were based on the other info.  They weren't even always there, as I recall.  They were kind of added on to increase security, and that doesn't work if they are put at equal risk with the rest of the info.  They should never be kept by merchants.

[DaveMMR]

Sony's going to be resuming most services this week and apparently there'll be a little "goody basket" for those affected.

PSN and Qriocity will also be offering a “Welcome Back” program. This program is provided by Sony PlayStation in appreciation for their customers, understanding, patience, and support as well as in hopes of their continued loyalty to Sony. According to the press release the “Welcome Back” program will include, a 30 day free membership in the PlayStation Plus premium service for all existing PSN customers. PlayStation Plus users who are already a paying customer will receive 30 days free service as well. Music Unlimited subscribers who have been inconvenience will also receive free 30 days of service. Finally each region will receive selected PlayStation entertainment content for free download. Specific details are not available at this time; however PlayStation plans to make the announcement soon.

The "30-day free" promotions don't really impress me that much, considering how many companies offer one anyway as an enticement to get you to use their service.  This ranks only "slightly better" than Nintendo mailing everyone a $5 coupon when New York State sued them back in 1991.   Their "punishment" is selling more services.  If you're already a subscriber of either service though, then it's a better reward.

The free content does intrigue me, though, and I'm curious to see what they're offering.  Are they picking stuff people would actually want or are they going to offer up stuff that ranks at the bottom of the list?   Wait and see, I suppose.

[DNA Dan]

So let me get this straight.... Sony is going to offer a 30 day subscription FREE of charge, which I will probably have to enter in a NEW credit card only to have to call in and cancel it at a later date. Is this their way of getting people to re-enter in their cards? FU sony.

The email they sent was a joke. Giving me the addrees of Experian, TransUnion, etc. Call your Attorney General?? Are they serious? The least these a-holes should do is pay to have free credit monitoring for 2 years for every subscriber on PSN.

[Dartful Dodger]

I can't wait to give the company that lost information on one credit card, information about another credit card.

To make it easier for Sony to track our accounts I think we should give Sony our social security numbers and all our bank account numbers.

Is PSN even back up yet?

I'm also curious to see what they're offering.

[lilshawn]

Is PSN even back up yet?

I'm also curious to see what they're offering.

supposedly they have begun running today in a very limited capacity... my guess is they want to make sure it's not going to happen again.

i heard they transferred their servers someplace else entirely and implemented "stronger encryption" (read as "now actually using encryption")

bra-vo

[SavannahLion]

Is PSN even back up yet?

I'm also curious to see what they're offering.

supposedly they have begun running today in a very limited capacity... my guess is they want to make sure it's not going to happen again.

It appears to be by region. So it's probably going to penetrate the "major" markets first before it's spread out to the normal people.

Is there really a reason to enter a credit card? Can the PSN cards be used to pay for the "premium" service on a monthly basis? I don't know, I never really cared to pay for the premium service, not much there interests me.

I'll echo the same sentiment about the package:

Sony also detailed a ‘Welcome Back Appreciation Program’ for its users. The thank you package will include 30 free days of PSN Plus for every user, selected PlayStation entertainment content for free download (content will differ depending on your region), and 30 free days of Music Unlimited for Qriocity users. Sony says users can also expect additional "Welcome Back" entertainment and service offerings over the coming weeks.

This is a rather anemic package. Forget the rest of the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. How about $##.## worth of credit to spend on items of our own choosing? Oh well, I guess PSN Plus is the closest to that. Watch Sony let you download the freebie stuff you can get with PSN+ only to take them away if you let the "subscription" expire at the end of the month.

[lilshawn]

*bad asian accent*
Oh, soley... It no 77 mirion it was 102 mirion. So soley so soley.
*end bad accent*

Uh... Ya I got nothing. 25 million more? Really sony? REALLY? Really.

[Mikezilla]

*bad asian accent*
Oh, soley... It no 77 mirion it was 102 mirion. So soley so soley.
*end bad accent*

Uh... Ya I got nothing. 25 million more? Really sony? REALLY? Really.

 

[DaveMMR]

Nice lilshawn, only a tad racist.   

[lilshawn]

Sony has squandered so many opportunities in the last decade. Why license music from other labels for a game when you own your own record label?!?! Think of all the Sony Pictures Films that could have had games come out exclusively for PS3 and didn't. The Sony brand covers so many sections of technology and entertainment, that they no longer hold value in any of them. They just plod along, doing just enough to keep the peoples hype up.

This whole Playstation Network fiasco just might be the straw that broke the camels back.

[hypernova]

This whole Playstation Network fiasco just might be the straw that broke the camels back.

Nah...as one person (don't know) who coined it:  Americans are too lazy to hold a grudge.

[DaveMMR]

Sony has squandered so many opportunities in the last decade.

You're a little off on your assessment of how Sony's running it's business.  I'm not sticking up for them, but you do need to have your facts straight.  To explain further:

Why license music from other labels for a game when you own your own record label?!?!

That might make sense if Sony was the sole publisher of their games, but that's not the case.  Many publishers (EA, Activistion, etc.) release the same game across multiple consoles (specifically, the XBox 360), so only using Sony's catalog would be moot.  

But even if that wasn't the case, what fun would Rock Band, etc. be if you only had choice of songs from Sony's catalog?  The success of these games can be partially attributed to its wide variety of licensed music.    Oh and you can wave goodbye to Beatles Rock Band too...

Think of all the Sony Pictures Films that could have had games come out exclusively for PS3 and didn't.

I guess you haven't been paying attention to the game industry but games based on movies are often terrible.   Yes, you can say "Goldeneye" for the N64 or "The Warriors" for PS2 but then I'll just rebut with "Enter The Matrix" (merely okay but rushed) or "E.T." (partially responsible for destroying the video game industry in 1983).  Or how about half of Acclaim's output since the NES.  Or... just read through this page.

They just plod along, doing just enough to keep the peoples hype up.

What else would you like them to do?  Come over and give you a back massage while you're playing Mass Effect 2?  You already said you want limited music and crappy licensed games but the game makers are steering away from that considering us gamers have gotten wise to that cost-cutting crap.  There's no successor in sight for Sony's PS3 (this would typically be the year for the new generation's hardware to come out).  So as of right now, it's either enjoy what they have to offer, or see what MS or Nintendo is serving up.  

The whole hacking fiasco is terrible and people are going to lose their jobs over this (maybe) and customers are going to go elsewhere, but I feel like you're just making up reasons to be mad at them now.  But in all fairness, your have a right to base your buying decisions on whatever criteria you choose to follow.  Or maybe just stick to PC gaming.   Less drama and more of the games you might enjoy - like Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing.

By the way, one final point:

Sony has squandered so many opportunities in the last decade.

Sony's PS2 became the best-selling system of all-time in the past decade (toppling the original record holder, the NES).  I don't think they were worried about any lost opportunities. :-)

(P.S. I'm not a fanboy but I totally just sounded like one...)

[lilshawn]

Americans are too lazy to hold a grudge.

Sid The Sloth in the movie Ice Age


 
ya, it's THAT bad.

That might make sense if Sony was the sole publisher of their games, but that's not the case.  Many publishers (EA, Activistion, etc.) release the same game across multiple consoles (specifically, the XBox 360), so only using Sony's catalog would be moot.  

But even if that wasn't the case, what fun would Rock Band, etc. be if you only had choice of songs from Sony's catalog?  The success of these games can be partially attributed to its wide variety of licensed music.    Oh and you can wave goodbye to Beatles Rock Band too...

no, i wan't saying that at all... i mean yes, games like Rockband and Guitar Hero are going to have a set track list, they can't change that... I'm talking about games they personally published... why wouldn't they have had music from their own signed artists from their own record company in their own games? why waste money having to purchase licencing from a 3rd party when they could be passing money with one hand and taking it with the other?

Quote
Think of all the Sony Pictures Films that could have had games come out exclusively for PS3 and didn't.
I guess you haven't been paying attention to the game industry but games based on movies are often terrible.   Yes, you can say "Goldeneye" for the N64 or "The Warriors" for PS2 but then I'll just rebut with "Enter The Matrix" (merely okay but rushed) or "E.T." (partially responsible for destroying the video game industry in 1983).  Or how about half of Acclaim's output since the NES.  Or... just read through this page.

I didn't say they would be any good. suffice it to say that allot of movies put out by sony pictures or their dozen or so subsidiaries or holdings or whatever you want to call it, are poo poo, one can only hope there is the possibility of something good.

considering us gamers have gotten wise to that cost-cutting crap.

absolutely. it still seems to happen though.

So as of right now, it's either enjoy what they have to offer, or see what MS or Nintendo is serving up.  

nintendo is famous for regurgitating the same thing with a shiny new wrapper, at least sony and MS push out something big... even though they have begun spiting out slim versions of the same thing to drum up sales.... but how many DS's do we need? look past the 3D and you have a regular DS... same as the 2 before it... same with the nintendo, then the "new" top load nintendo and the "new" SNES... dozens of incantations of the "gameboy". junk aside, sony is going to need to fast track something really really good or their customer base will move on.

(P.S. I'm not a fanboy but I totally just sounded like one...)

i'm not a fanboy, i don't even own one...I calls em' like I sees em'.

long story short, i think Sony is downplaying this still... this is still far worse than what they have admitted to.

[SNAAKE]

HERRO I RIIKE PRAYSTATIIOHN

[lilshawn]

HERRO I RIIKE PRAYSTATIIOHN

 

[SNAAKE]

^ excellent media player too. watch "obtained" 720p/1080p movies

 

[SavannahLion]

So as of right now, it's either enjoy what they have to offer, or see what MS or Nintendo is serving up.  

nintendo is famous for regurgitating the same thing with a shiny new wrapper, at least sony and MS push out something big... even though they have begun spiting out slim versions of the same thing to drum up sales.... but how many DS's do we need? look past the 3D and you have a regular DS... same as the 2 before it... same with the nintendo, then the "new" top load nintendo and the "new" SNES... dozens of incantations of the "gameboy". junk aside, sony is going to need to fast track something really really good or their customer base will move on.

You write that like Nintendo is the only one that does/did that. Sega had Genesis 1, 2, and 3 along with two iterations of the Sega CD and that's not counting the off shoot variations like the X'Eye, Multi-Mega, Nomad, and the unbelievably ---smurfy--- Firecore. And "the 'new' SNES"? Are you serious? You say that like the SNES is an offshoot of the NES. They're different beasts, not anything like what Atari has done with the 2600/7800 or even later generation consoles that every manufacture has done in some variation or another.

Hands down there is no other family that even comes remotely close to the sales numbers the Gameboy line generated for Nintendo. I can guarantee that if any other company produced those kinds of sales for their hand held, we would see the same kind of long running model changes. Where is the Lynx? How about the Game Gear? Turbo Express? Please, don't make me laugh. Check out the Wikipedia list and count how many have died off.

In the terms of the gaming field, Sony and Microsoft are still relative newcomers in the console industry. Hell, in terms of overall existence, Nintendo is the Grandpa in the industry. If repacking old tech keeps the company operating in the black, then it's obviously a working strategy.

[lilshawn]

And "the 'new' SNES"? Are you serious? You say that like the SNES is an offshoot of the NES. They're different beasts, not anything like what Atari has done with the 2600/7800 or even later generation consoles that every manufacture has done in some variation or another.

sigh...

[DaveMMR]

Lilshawn, rereleasing a console with a new form at the end of it's life is fairly common.
Atari did it, Sega did it, Sony did it.  It's usually to spark lagging sales and sometimes to address design flaws (e.g. NES).   

[shateredsoul]

Yeah, the gameboy was their golden ticket. I'm not sure why they released the Nintendo 3ds when it seemed like the Nintendo DS was far from dead. I think it had more to do with..

1. Competing with cellphones. Even if we say they don't, if they're sales are going down and cell phone games are going up, then they probably see it that way.

2. To try and combat piracy w/ the updatable firmware

The original gameboy was around forever, crappy graphics and all.

So as of right now, it's either enjoy what they have to offer, or see what MS or Nintendo is serving up.  

nintendo is famous for regurgitating the same thing with a shiny new wrapper, at least sony and MS push out something big... even though they have begun spiting out slim versions of the same thing to drum up sales.... but how many DS's do we need? look past the 3D and you have a regular DS... same as the 2 before it... same with the nintendo, then the "new" top load nintendo and the "new" SNES... dozens of incantations of the "gameboy". junk aside, sony is going to need to fast track something really really good or their customer base will move on.

You write that like Nintendo is the only one that does/did that. Sega had Genesis 1, 2, and 3 along with two iterations of the Sega CD and that's not counting the off shoot variations like the X'Eye, Multi-Mega, Nomad, and the unbelievably ---smurfy--- Firecore. And "the 'new' SNES"? Are you serious? You say that like the SNES is an offshoot of the NES. They're different beasts, not anything like what Atari has done with the 2600/7800 or even later generation consoles that every manufacture has done in some variation or another.

Hands down there is no other family that even comes remotely close to the sales numbers the Gameboy line generated for Nintendo. I can guarantee that if any other company produced those kinds of sales for their hand held, we would see the same kind of long running model changes. Where is the Lynx? How about the Game Gear? Turbo Express? Please, don't make me laugh. Check out the Wikipedia list and count how many have died off.

In the terms of the gaming field, Sony and Microsoft are still relative newcomers in the console industry. Hell, in terms of overall existence, Nintendo is the Grandpa in the industry. If repacking old tech keeps the company operating in the black, then it's obviously a working strategy.

[Hoopz]

HERRO I RIIKE PRAYSTATIIOHN

 

I like the Sports Night reference.  One of my favorite shows and that particular episode was hilarious.   

[Mikezilla]

HERRO I RIIKE PRAYSTATIIOHN

Holy ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- that is hilarious. Go ahead, call me racist, I dont even care, thats funny. 

[Vigo]

HERRO I RIIKE PRAYSTATIIOHN

Holy ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- that is hilarious. Go ahead, call me racist, I dont even care, thats funny.  

Since you asked me to: Mike, you are a racist.

Now don't say I never helped you out.  

[Mikezilla]

HERRO I RIIKE PRAYSTATIIOHN

Holy ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- that is hilarious. Go ahead, call me racist, I dont even care, thats funny.  

Since you asked me to: Mike, you are a racist.

Now don't say I never helped you out.  

Rock on friend. Can you do me another favor? Can you change your avatar? That damn clown is creepy! 

[lilshawn]

HERRO I RIIKE PRAYSTATIIOHN

Holy ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- that is hilarious. Go ahead, call me racist, I dont even care, thats funny.  

Since you asked me to: Mike, you are a racist.

Now don't say I never helped you out.  

Rock on friend. Can you do me another favor? Can you change your avatar? That damn clown is creepy! 

PBJ's pregnant clown avatar was WAY creepier

[SavannahLion]

And "the 'new' SNES"? Are you serious? You say that like the SNES is an offshoot of the NES. They're different beasts, not anything like what Atari has done with the 2600/7800 or even later generation consoles that every manufacture has done in some variation or another.

sigh...

  Uh that's kind of sad dude, it's like DaveMMR said. That's a re-release of a console. Nintendo certainly isn't the first, the last nor the only one to do that. Did you not note my citation of the half dozen iterations of the Genesis? Atari is also guilty of it, there's a reason why collectors go after the "Heavy Sixers". Ever heard of the "Darth Vader" version?

[SavannahLion]

PBJ's pregnant clown avatar was WAY creepier

Just block his stuff.

[SNAAKE]

RIIFE WITHSOUT PRAYSTATIIOHN NESWORRK

[lilshawn]

[Vigo]

HERRO I RIIKE PRAYSTATIIOHN

Holy ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- that is hilarious. Go ahead, call me racist, I dont even care, thats funny.  

Since you asked me to: Mike, you are a racist.

Now don't say I never helped you out.  

Rock on friend. Can you do me another favor? Can you change your avatar? That damn clown is creepy! 

Oh fine....there is no love for Snacks 'n Jackson on these forums. It's probably time you got an avatar though. I think it's a rule that once you hit the 800 post mark, you have to get an avatar for yourself.

[DNA Dan]

I am fan of Snacks n Jaxson! You got me into it Vigo! I thought your avatar was hilarious. Most people never heard of that game

You guys posting the satire are cracking me up! You have some skills!

[Vigo]

Thanks, Dan! Woohoo! A Snacks n' Jackson fan! 

I'm glad I'm not the only person who sees the humor in a game about a semi-decapitated clown eating breakfast while keeping his nose from breaking windows.

[Mikezilla]

HERRO I RIIKE PRAYSTATIIOHN

Holy ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- that is hilarious. Go ahead, call me racist, I dont even care, thats funny.  

Since you asked me to: Mike, you are a racist.

Now don't say I never helped you out.  

Rock on friend. Can you do me another favor? Can you change your avatar? That damn clown is creepy! 

Oh fine....there is no love for Snacks 'n Jackson on these forums. It's probably time you got an avatar though. I think it's a rule that once you hit the 800 post mark, you have to get an avatar for yourself.

Haha I know, good point. My work filter is so lame, and I dont usually frequent the forums at home, but I might make some time to get an avatar.

[Vigo]

HERRO I RIIKE PRAYSTATIIOHN

Holy ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- that is hilarious. Go ahead, call me racist, I dont even care, thats funny. 

Since you asked me to: Mike, you are a racist.

Now don't say I never helped you out. 

Rock on friend. Can you do me another favor? Can you change your avatar? That damn clown is creepy! 

Oh fine....there is no love for Snacks 'n Jackson on these forums. It's probably time you got an avatar though. I think it's a rule that once you hit the 800 post mark, you have to get an avatar for yourself.

Haha I know, good point. My work filter is so lame, and I dont usually frequent the forums at home, but I might make some time to get an avatar.

I kinda figured that was the case. Work filters suck.

So I hope I'm off the hook now...even though I would personally say an avatar where dumbledore is hovering towards hargid taking a piss should be more on the creepy side than a clown. 

[Samstag]

PS3 hackers just released their own version of OtherOS so you can install linux on the PS3 again.  Even better, it's a big improvement over Sony's version.  It's not crippled by Sony's hypervisor and it runs on slim models.

http://gitbrew.org/otheros/

I'm hoping XBMC is next.

[hypernova]

So word now is that there was a remnant file on Sony's servers or whatever that said "Anonymous - We are legion".

So frame job, or did they really do it?  (And if they did AS A GROUP, then the data probably won't be misused.)

[lilshawn]

People can say anything. But until sony comes clean w will never know. We could start a rumor that the "Darrryl Skaaatz groooup"was the persons responsible. Who's to say no?

[DNA Dan]

I thought I read an article where Sony stated they knew who was responsible for the attack. I am sure they know a lot more than they are letting on.

[Dartful Dodger]

When do we get our free stuff?

[Mikezilla]

When do we get our free stuff?

I want to know what the free stuff even entails. Exactly. Access to the network to play on line is free, so whats the big damn deal anyway? 

[DNA Dan]

Perhaps free encrypted passwords?

[lilshawn]

FREE CREDIT CARD NUMBERS FOR ALL!!!!!

[hypernova]

Now there's a story about another group having access to Sony's servers (different servers than the one's already breached).  They are claiming they may release as much information as they can get their hands on in an effort to smear Sony's name even more so than it is.  This info allegedly includes stuff like names, addresses, etc.  And CC numbers.

New information breach???

Check the middle paragraph for the new info.

All I can do at this point is just chuckle and laugh.  All this crap coming their way.  After so much crap from them, they angered the wrong people - some of the better hackers in the world.

Will it keep up?

[DaveMMR]

All I can do at this point is just chuckle and laugh.  All this crap coming their way.  After so much crap from them, they angered the wrong people - some of the better hackers in the world.

Well honestly I find it kind of sad.  Angered the wrong people?  Please.  If you don't like Sony's policies then don't buy their stuff.  Why get people like me - who only want to play online, maybe download a game, etc. - involved in a hacker's childish tantrum.

I understand some of the more tech-savvy are upset that they've been limited to how they can modify their system or that George Hotz faced legal action by finding an exploit in the PS3.  Realize though that this will never change - piracy is a real problem in the industry.   If they leave the doors open for people to take advantage, then they'd be in serious trouble.  And with PCs so cheap, why even bother with hacking a damn console anymore?  You can do what you want with a PC with none of the crazy hoops to jump through.  Oh yeah right - you can't play pirated PS3 games on a PC....  

I diverted from my original point - and I didn't mean for it to turn into a lecture on piracy (my C64 collection are the leftover shards of my glass house).  But basically: committing a Federal crime, putting a company (and people's jobs) at risk, and inconveniencing 77 million innocent customers with at best, not being able to enjoy their product and at worst having to cancel their credit cards all because Sony won't make it easy for you to circumvent their anti-piracy measures is ridiculously stupid and irresponsible for all involved.  It makes hard-core gamers look like a bunch of brats who couldn't have their way in the eyes of everyone else.  The inflated sense of entitlement here is ridiculous.

Finally, if Sony's or Nintendo's or Microsoft's draconian locking methods really bother you to the point where you find this kind of attack justified, you should probably switch to PC gaming.

[SavannahLion]

I'd be hard pressed to equate these black hats with what Geohut and Anonymous have done. If the hacker(s) responsible truly wanted to hit Sony under the guise of freedom, then why steal information and CC numbers then attempt to sell the list? A true white hat would have stolen the entire source code tree to the ps3 and the PSN servers. Maybe even the docs to the PS4 for kicks. The personal info would have been left alone or encrypted, deleted, or whatever.

I can respect the entry, but the theft business is a bit much.

[DNA Dan]

Well they finally got me guys. Call your credit card company and cancel your card ASAP. I haven't made any strange or new business location charges and my number has been stolen. I attribute this directly to this PSN hack. You'll get a kick out of this one...... someone tried to charge a new XBOX live subscription on my credit card!!!!! Xbox live fanboys can suck it!

So I don't know about others, but I don't think this was coincidence. I have had the card for years and only use it at the same round of stores every month. I can confirm that your data is out there and being charged on.

[SNAAKE]

[shateredsoul]

heard the rumored upcoming attack did happen, they released some info but not credit card info.. damn. Whose to say they won't go after xbox 360 next...

[hypernova]

All I can do at this point is just chuckle and laugh.  All this crap coming their way.  After so much crap from them, they angered the wrong people - some of the better hackers in the world.

Well honestly I find it kind of sad.  Angered the wrong people?  Please.  If you don't like Sony's policies then don't buy their stuff.  Why get people like me - who only want to play online, maybe download a game, etc. - involved in a hacker's childish tantrum.

I understand some of the more tech-savvy are upset that they've been limited to how they can modify their system or that George Hotz faced legal action by finding an exploit in the PS3.  Realize though that this will never change - piracy is a real problem in the industry.   If they leave the doors open for people to take advantage, then they'd be in serious trouble.  And with PCs so cheap, why even bother with hacking a damn console anymore?  You can do what you want with a PC with none of the crazy hoops to jump through.  Oh yeah right - you can't play pirated PS3 games on a PC....  

I diverted from my original point - and I didn't mean for it to turn into a lecture on piracy (my C64 collection are the leftover shards of my glass house).  But basically: committing a Federal crime, putting a company (and people's jobs) at risk, and inconveniencing 77 million innocent customers with at best, not being able to enjoy their product and at worst having to cancel their credit cards all because Sony won't make it easy for you to circumvent their anti-piracy measures is ridiculously stupid and irresponsible for all involved.  It makes hard-core gamers look like a bunch of brats who couldn't have their way in the eyes of everyone else.  The inflated sense of entitlement here is ridiculous.

Finally, if Sony's or Nintendo's or Microsoft's draconian locking methods really bother you to the point where you find this kind of attack justified, you should probably switch to PC gaming.

You read too much out of my post.  Didn't say I condoned the actions.  I am one of those people who will do their best to avoid the Sony name.  I'm not the "wrong people".  I'm not exactly saddened by these actions either (save the CC thievery-that is sad) with Sony's track record.  I was hoping CC info wasn't actually going to be stolen and used, but it looks like that may be the case, though DNA Dan's could still be a coincidence.  I'm doubtful that it is a coincidence, however.

[lloydclinton]

I think Sony had to blame *someone* quickly to save face and turn the PR around... if you look at this, it doesn't fit the Anonymous profile... had the CEO of Sony videotaped himself throwing puppies into a river, then maybe they may have done *something*, but I don't believe they would steal the credit card information... the have the talent to do so, but this isn't their MO...

[lilshawn]

I think we should go back to the old instruction manual keycode that you had to search out and then type in to play

"What word is on page 67 paragraph 3 word 15?"

[DNA Dan]

I wish someone else who had to cancel their card posts in the thread so we'd know it wasn't coincidence.

I bank with Wells Fargo and they actually called me to confirm some transactions. The very first one from the automated voice was "A service through Microsoft Coporation, Xbox live." Or something to that effect. When you punch in you didn't do the transaction it goes immediately to a banker. I told them I was a PSN account holder which recently was hacked, he tells me he cannot comment on that, but the card needed to be cancelled immediately and I have to wait 7-10 days for another one. We then went through my last 5 transactions. It was a really a fast process. I am just thankful they caught it with their automated fraud system. I mean how would they know that I didn't do the transaction? A fake security code? or does XBL not require a code? Anyway, they would have to know that this service was asked for in a different town, or not from where I normally use the card. Being that's an online service, I just can't figure out what tripped the fraud alert.

[SavannahLion]

Wells Fargo actually tracks your banking habits. Whenever you do a charge that's "out of your normal tendencies" it triggers a flag and prompts that call. I rarely charged more than $XX dollars on my card and I tend to always purchase from the same businesses. When I purchased my laptop about four or five years ago, it prompted a call from WF. Same thing when my truck broke down and I needed to repair it while I was in the Bay Area. And again when I used the card to reserve a hotel room in a different state.

I'm not entirely sure how the algorithm works though. Just before my first child was born, I ratcheted up about $10k on that card with charges across the state and I didn't receive a single call from the bank.

I canceled my cards as soon as I got wind of the PSN ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---. I couldn't recall if I actually did put in my card info or not but I wasn't taking any chances. With every bank, as soon as I mentioned the letters, "PSN," I got the old cards canceled and new ones issued. No questions asked. Interestingly, only Wells fargo tried to convince me to keep my old card until unexplained charges appeared and then cancel my card. They also tried to sell me some "fraud" insurance and a subscription to that credit history thing. That's one of the reasons why I quit doing most of my business with Wells Fargo.

I never had the same type of experience with WF as PBJ had, but I can echo that WF isn't exactly the most um... how should we say it? Customer friendly bank to deal with.

[DaveMMR]

You read too much out of my post.  Didn't say I condoned the actions.  I am one of those people who will do their best to avoid the Sony name.  I'm not the "wrong people".  I'm not exactly saddened by these actions either (save the CC thievery-that is sad) with Sony's track record.  I was hoping CC info wasn't actually going to be stolen and used, but it looks like that may be the case, though DNA Dan's could still be a coincidence.  I'm doubtful that it is a coincidence, however.

I did not mean to imply it my rant was a direct response to you and what you said; I just used your post as a springboard for what I've been seeing (elsewhere) as anti-Sony, pro-hacker sentiment.   I have no problem with the Sony hatred (I don't particularly like Sony either, they just had what I was looking for with regards to gaming).  But any attack (even a simple Denial-of-Service) on a company is the wrong, irresponsible and illegal way of doing things.   It always hurts the victims more (attack costs company money, company passes those loses onto the customer in some way).   

Besides Sony today, Microsoft, Nintendo or Apple tomorrow...

[Malenko]

 If you don't like Sony's policies then don't buy their stuff.  

while I agree with most of your post, this line is a bit off. The issue is Sony changing policy AFTER you buy that pissed them off. I have a PS3, I jail broke it.......I still dont play it. Its a glorified BluRay player, and my GF bought it for me as a birthday gift thinking it would replace my broken PS2, but the salesman lied to her because he sold her a model that didnt play PS2 games. c'est la vie


I dont like Sony's policies and I wont be buying their stuff anymore.

[hypernova]

I'm not really bothered by a DoS attack.  It's only a temporary thing, and many users won't even know it happened.  I know I wasn't even aware that Paypal was targeted awhile back during the wikileaks thing.  But I do feel for the PSN users who still can't play some CoD or the new MK.  What's happened does suck for all of them.  This outage is certainly far and beyond anything anyone could have expected from a cyber-intrusion.

I read yesterday that Sony's claiming all of their servers WERE up to date.  Numerous reports prior to the hack were that they utilized out-of-date Apache.  So...once again, who's telling the truth?

Besides Sony today, Microsoft, Nintendo or Apple tomorrow...

Wouldn't bother me on Nintendo being targeted.  At least for now, because who depends on Nintendo's online services?   MS would be a much bigger hit.  It would be enormous, actually.  Although I'd miss not being able to play Black Ops online, I have plenty of other games I'd like to play again as soon as I finish FFXII IZJS.  Millions of others, however, who use LIVE would be heartbroken/irate.  Plus there's much more CC info that could be exposed.

I hate Apple as much as Sony.  Except they're much easier to boycott.

[lloydclinton]

I'm not really bothered by a DoS attack.  It's only a temporary thing, and many users won't even know it happened.  I know I wasn't even aware that Paypal was targeted awhile back during the wikileaks thing.  But I do feel for the PSN users who still can't play some CoD or the new MK.  What's happened does suck for all of them.  This outage is certainly far and beyond anything anyone could have expected from a cyber-intrusion.

Most of my 9-5 deals with security and more specifically PCI compliance.  When you have a breach that causes credit card theft it gets rather nasty.  The last people you probably want to call is Visa because they will be sending a forensics team to figure out what happened (this is what my auditor told me).  If the violations get crazy enough, Visa can say that you can not process credit cards anymore.  That would most certainly deal a death blow to more than a few companies these days.  With the 74 million and the newly reported 24 million records from the Sony Online Entertainment, this could make them the 2nd largest data breach of all time...right now they have the incidents split so the PSN comes in at the 4th largest and the SOE comes in at 9:  http://datalossdb.org/

So Sony in reality is responsible for the combined 2nd largest data breach/loss of all time....

[lloydclinton]

Finally, if Sony's or Nintendo's or Microsoft's draconian locking methods really bother you to the point where you find this kind of attack justified, you should probably switch to PC gaming.

I am an avid PC gamer and there are plenty of issues with EA/Valve/Steam, etc... but we deal with it because we like to play...

[DNA Dan]

while I agree with most of your post, this line is a bit off. The issue is Sony changing policy AFTER you buy that pissed them off. I have a PS3, I jail broke it.......I still dont play it. Its a glorified BluRay player, and my GF bought it for me as a birthday gift thinking it would replace my broken PS2, but the salesman lied to her because he sold her a model that didnt play PS2 games. c'est la vi

I dont like Sony's policies and I wont be buying their stuff anymore.

Yeah I think that whole backward compatibility lie led to the PS3's lackluster sales. They put so much hype into these consoles by the time it hits the market the expectation is way beyond the reality.

Thanks for the heads up with Wells. This is only the second time in 15 years that I had to change my number due to theft and the first time they played nice. Hopefully this time is no different.

[DaveMMR]

The issue is Sony changing policy AFTER you buy that pissed them off.

That pretty much happens with any company (credit cards, cable providers, utilities, etc.)  And they even put it in their language that they can modify terms and agreements at any time.  But with Sony, you can "stop" buying anything further if you so choose (and sell the PS3 used, that affects them as well).

I'm not really bothered by a DoS attack.

Definitely less noticable but still affects the consumer.  Those attacks cost companies money, money they have to make up... through its customers.

Wouldn't bother me on Nintendo being targeted.

You do give them credit card information if you download games from them (though I'm not sure if they actually store it since I have to keep re-entering it when I purchase points).    

Finally, if Sony's or Nintendo's or Microsoft's draconian locking methods really bother you to the point where you find this kind of attack justified, you should probably switch to PC gaming.

I am an avid PC gamer and there are plenty of issues with EA/Valve/Steam, etc... but we deal with it because we like to play...

Yes but you can enjoy a whole host of software outside of those services/companies without any restrictions.  With Sony/Nintendo/MS Xbox - any game you want to play has to go through their "gates", so to speak.

[lloydclinton]

while I agree with most of your post, this line is a bit off. The issue is Sony changing policy AFTER you buy that pissed them off. I have a PS3, I jail broke it.......I still dont play it. Its a glorified BluRay player, and my GF bought it for me as a birthday gift thinking it would replace my broken PS2, but the salesman lied to her because he sold her a model that didnt play PS2 games. c'est la vi

I dont like Sony's policies and I wont be buying their stuff anymore.

Yeah I think that whole backward compatibility lie led to the PS3's lackluster sales. They put so much hype into these consoles by the time it hits the market the expectation is way beyond the reality.

Thanks for the heads up with Wells. This is only the second time in 15 years that I had to change my number due to theft and the first time they played nice. Hopefully this time is no different.

Also, if you are concerned that someone may have stolen enough information to get credit in your name and actually steal your identity there are several things you can do yourself:

1.  Go to https://www.alerts.equifax.com/AutoFraud_Online/jsp/fraudAlert.jsp and request a free 90 day fraud alert.  Once you fill it out at Equifax they are supposed to alert the other two reporting agencies and they will put a fraud alert on your account.  You are supposed to then get a phone call when someone tries to extend you credit to make sure it is you.

2.  If you are the victim of fraud and you have a police report, you can put a freeze on your credit.  To be extended credit you will have to have the freeze lifted.

[Malenko]

The issue is Sony changing policy AFTER you buy that pissed them off.

That pretty much happens with any company (credit cards, cable providers, utilities, etc.)  And they even put it in their language that they can modify terms and agreements at any time.  But with Sony, you can "stop" buying anything further if you so choose (and sell the PS3 used, that affects them as well).

Lets not wonder too far off base here, lets keep it strictly about video game consoles. They can modify terms of service all they want, but that isnt what Sony did. Sony removed a selling feature, and the feature they removed pissed off the hackiest of nerds (or the nerdiest of hackers, your choice) and you had to choose between paying the newest games for the console or keeping the feature. If I knew how to do what they were doing, I'd probably be doing it too.

Im not going to get too deep into it, mostly because I dont care enough about it to do so. Sony can only push so much before people start pushing back. I'll still have the piece of mind of not supporting the company even if it doesnt impact them.

[DaveMMR]

The issue is Sony changing policy AFTER you buy that pissed them off.

That pretty much happens with any company (credit cards, cable providers, utilities, etc.)  And they even put it in their language that they can modify terms and agreements at any time.  But with Sony, you can "stop" buying anything further if you so choose (and sell the PS3 used, that affects them as well).

Lets not wonder too far off base here, lets keep it strictly about video game consoles. They can modify terms of service all they want, but that isnt what Sony did. Sony removed a selling feature, and the feature they removed pissed off the hackiest of nerds (or the nerdiest of hackers, your choice) and you had to choose between paying the newest games for the console or keeping the feature. If I knew how to do what they were doing, I'd probably be doing it too.

Im not going to get too deep into it, mostly because I dont care enough about it to do so. Sony can only push so much before people start pushing back. I'll still have the piece of mind of not supporting the company even if it doesnt impact them.

Be that as it may, it's still not a valid reason to hack PSN and expose 77 million customers to potential fraud on the credit cards.

And as for that whole Other OS business - I just never got it.  Did people really buy a PS3 so they can install Linux on it?  Does it serve any purpose besides running Homebrew software (that's usually either "meh" or "copyright infringement")?   Why not install Linux on a cheap PC instead of a $400-$600 PS3 and do what you will with it?   Seriously, I know little-to-nothing about it even after searching (though this one article says it might be pressure from IBM as to why they had to remove it).  

[hypernova]

Wouldn't bother me on Nintendo being targeted.

You do give them credit card information if you download games from them (though I'm not sure if they actually store it since I have to keep re-entering it when I purchase points).    

Heh...I haven't downloaded any WiiWare since when my first Wii was stolen from my home.  And to buy those,  I just got the points cards from the store.  I've figured I've got too many games to play as it is, and any old school games are emulated just fine on the PC, and don't warrant me buying them yet again.

I have, however, given my CC info through my 360.  So an intrusion into LIVE would be particularly worrisome to me.

[SNAAKE]

http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/article/385669/no_sony_psn_service_anytime_soon_says_latest_update/

[lilshawn]

"conduct further testing of the incredibly complex system"

so... they updated the firmware on their dlink router, bricked it, and nobody can figure out what to do now?

[Malenko]

Be that as it may, it's still not a valid reason to hack PSN and expose 77 million customers to potential fraud on the credit cards.

And as for that whole Other OS business - I just never got it.  Did people really buy a PS3 so they can install Linux on it?  Does it serve any purpose besides running Homebrew software (that's usually either "meh" or "copyright infringement")?   Why not install Linux on a cheap PC instead of a $400-$600 PS3 and do what you will with it?   Seriously, I know little-to-nothing about it even after searching (though this one article says it might be pressure from IBM as to why they had to remove it).  

Just to truncate and make sure we're on ther same path....... Anonymous took down the PSN servers for a day or two to show Sony how fucktarded they are. Thats what I was talking about. I supposed the criminals (some of which may or may not have been part of Anonymous) saw a vulnerability and cashed in.

As for OtherOS, I guess the US government (AirForce, C3,etc) must have been running "meh" or "copyright infringement" when they bought over 2,200 PS3 to run linux. As for the IBM opinion,I dont see many facts supporting it, just conjecture. Perhaps you really didnt know that you can use a PS3 as a server and that a server usually costs a lot more then a PS3 (the power supply in my crappy Dell PowerEdge 1800 back up server is $300)

[DaveMMR]

Just to truncate and make sure we're on ther same path....... Anonymous took down the PSN servers for a day or two to show Sony how fucktarded they are. Thats what I was talking about. I supposed the criminals (some of which may or may not have been part of Anonymous) saw a vulnerability and cashed in.

I agree that happened, but why would the average Joe gamer care about the message anonymous is trying to convey when they're forced to have a crippled PS3 (no online play) for a war they probably knew nothing much less cared about.   Even if it were only a day or two. 

I know why they supposedly did it - I just don't think it's at all responsible.

As for OtherOS, I guess the US government (AirForce, C3,etc) must have been running "meh" or "copyright infringement" when they bought over 2,200 PS3 to run linux. As for the IBM opinion,I dont see many facts supporting it, just conjecture. Perhaps you really didnt know that you can use a PS3 as a server and that a server usually costs a lot more then a PS3 (the power supply in my crappy Dell PowerEdge 1800 back up server is $300)

So you're saying the people who are upset over the loss of OtherOS are primarily affiliated with the Airforce or C3?  Somehow I doubt that. And it's great that you use it as a server, but I can't see a company using it for such a purpose (actually, it would downright silly - you can't just fix or replace parts in a PS3 easily and it'd be outdated far too quickly). Home use, yes - I could see that. But that just touches upon what I'm talking about: how many people (out of all PS3 owners) are running servers at home? They couldn't possibly care less - they just want to play games.  And like me, they're soldiers in a war with Sony they wanted to no part of.

Actually, I'm not so much disagreeing with you than I am lashing out at the mentality of the hackers and its supporters (I don't see you as being in the latter category - you're only explaining why things went down as they did).  And I'm not sticking up for Sony so much either. Sony should not have promised the moon with the PS3. Games, music and movies: that's the most any console should concern itself with. But Sony needed to pad out the feature list to justify its price tag... and I guess you take that one feature from the one wrong person who uses his skills for bad...

[Dartful Dodger]

I wish someone else who had to cancel their card posts in the thread so we'd know it wasn't coincidence.

People who steal credit card numbers wish that more people were like you and just waited for their banks to tell them to cancel a credit card they've already suspected was compromised.

As soon as I heard about this I figured out what card I used on PSN and cancelled it. I wasn't going to wait for Sony to confirm or denied it was stolen. Heck, it took Sony a week to give us any info about it.

Abandoning Sony is out of the question for me. I've spend a lot of money on my PS3, now I’m stuck with it until the next generation console is priced under $300.

All I care about is what Sony is going to give me for my troubles. If they decide to screw me over I won't be buying a PS4, but they won't feel that loss for another 5-10 years.

[SavannahLion]

I may be wrong, but didn't the Airforce purchase the PS3's along with a support contract basically guaranteeing hardware support from Sony? Afterall, it's not like you buy a few hundred PS3 consoles from your local Wally World on short notice.

And for clarification, the Airforce isn't using the PS3's as individual servers, they're configured as a cluster combsning the computing power of all the units into one. Something Sony marketed with their Playstation line since the PS2. I think Sony marketed it as the "Cube"? I can't recall.

But I digress. A lot of entities leverage off the shelf hardware for this. I've seen ISP's use those little Apples in a farm, so using a PS3 as part of one, especially since Sony has a separate marketing branch for that express purpose is no surprise.

Anyone else remember when consoles just 'worked'?

We've got the Wii with GPUs taking shits, RROD Xbox 360s, and PS3s that can't go online.

Yeesh.

I have a crapped out Genie with a bad GPU, but yeah, I know what you mean.

[DNA Dan]

People who steal credit card numbers wish that more people were like you and just waited for their banks to tell them to cancel a credit card they've already suspected was compromised.

As soon as I heard about this I figured out what card I used on PSN and cancelled it. I wasn't going to wait for Sony to confirm or denied it was stolen. Heck, it took Sony a week to give us any info about it.

Abandoning Sony is out of the question for me. I've spend a lot of money on my PS3, now I’m stuck with it until the next generation console is priced under $300.

All I care about is what Sony is going to give me for my troubles. If they decide to screw me over I won't be buying a PS4, but they won't feel that loss for another 5-10 years.

Yeah same here. I didn't immediately cancel because I have 4-5 automatic bill pays setup on that card. Also I don't think so highly of credit card companies so I figured I'd let them deal with it. Looking in retrospect I probably should have cancelled it sooner, however it was a good test of the fraud alert system with my bank. I guess I just had too much faith in sony. Like others have said, you "buy into" the access and only go through their gates to use the hardware, I guess I just expected more from them.

But isn't the man behind the curtain usually a mouse being fed cheese on a treadmill?

[DaveMMR]

I may be wrong, but didn't the Airforce purchase the PS3's along with a support contract basically guaranteeing hardware support from Sony? Afterall, it's not like you buy a few hundred PS3 consoles from your local Wally World on short notice.

I'll have to take your word for it there but I'm guessing the Airforce isn't worried too much about the same concerns the rest of the users are having (disabled features, etc.)  considering Sony loves that they can tout this as an example of the PS3's power. 

Anyone else remember when consoles just 'worked'?

We've got the Wii with GPUs taking shits, RROD Xbox 360s, and PS3s that can't go online.

Yeesh.

Of all three, Wii's probably the sturdiest in terms of "uptime".  That may be attributed to the fact it does the least. I suppose it's biggest weakness is also a strength. 

[SNAAKE]

my luck with nintendo has been great. only "problem" I can think of is how my ds lite screen got scratched(tiny) THROUGH screen protector everything else always worked.

[RyoriNoTetsujin]

I just want to post here "for the record" that I had a card on file on my PSN account, and nothing at all has happened to it since the breach. Nothing. No fraud protection alerts, no phantom charges.

It's funny though: About a week before the breach, the Amex that I had previously attached to my PSN account was compromised.  A real person at Amex' fraud protection services called me to ask about a random $1.00(!) charge on my account which turned out to be fraudulent.  Got a new card from Amex in 2 days, end of story...

... except that I switched the card on my PSN account to a Visa card that is still on file... ONE day before the breach. D'oh.

I keep a close eye on all my finances, and I don't auto-pay anything, so I know what's going on with my cards.  I'm not worried, but I admit I am going to take that card off the system once the PSN is back up.

If nothing else, it'll keep me from making impulse purchases.  AND I'll get to walk a couple of blocks over to GameStop anytime I do decide to buy something on the PSN. So really, it's a healthy choice.  Sony is just looking out for my health. 

[CCM]

I'm not worried, but I admit I am going to take that card off the system once the PSN is back up.

That really doesn't do you any good if someone already stole that CC number...


I closed my CC that was attached to PSN as soon as I heard about the breach.   I don't like the 'wait and see' approach when it comes to CC fraud.

[Samstag]

I may be wrong, but didn't the Airforce purchase the PS3's along with a support contract basically guaranteeing hardware support from Sony? Afterall, it's not like you buy a few hundred PS3 consoles from your local Wally World on short notice.

I'll have to take your word for it there but I'm guessing the Airforce isn't worried too much about the same concerns the rest of the users are having (disabled features, etc.)  considering Sony loves that they can tout this as an example of the PS3's power. 

The Air Force uses OtherOS, which is a disabled feature.  So it's not something Sony can brag about.

It'd be like running a bunch of commercials about how awesome the new Socom is when playing online with your friends, except that they actually do that.

[hypernova]

Also I don't think so highly of credit card companies so I figured I'd let them deal with it.

Wouldn't that make you a little MORE proactive regarding the situation?

[DNA Dan]

Also I don't think so highly of credit card companies so I figured I'd let them deal with it.

Wouldn't that make you a little MORE proactive regarding the situation?

No, because it's their money.

[DaveMMR]

I may be wrong, but didn't the Airforce purchase the PS3's along with a support contract basically guaranteeing hardware support from Sony? Afterall, it's not like you buy a few hundred PS3 consoles from your local Wally World on short notice.

I'll have to take your word for it there but I'm guessing the Airforce isn't worried too much about the same concerns the rest of the users are having (disabled features, etc.)  considering Sony loves that they can tout this as an example of the PS3's power. 

The Air Force uses OtherOS, which is a disabled feature.  So it's not something Sony can brag about.

That's what I was saying though - you think the Airforce's PS3's have the same restrictions as the off-the-shelf models? 

And even so, Sony doesn't have to be specific about HOW the Airforce is running PS3's, just that they are.  Most people don't know what an OtherOS is anyway.

And this is all moot - I'm not in the Airforce.  I just want to play an online game.  Thank God Steam didn't go down so I can still play TF2.

[hypernova]

No, because it's their money.

It still takes some of your time to help straighten the situation out, so okie dokie.

[SavannahLion]

I may be wrong, but didn't the Airforce purchase the PS3's along with a support contract basically guaranteeing hardware support from Sony? Afterall, it's not like you buy a few hundred PS3 consoles from your local Wally World on short notice.

I'll have to take your word for it there but I'm guessing the Airforce isn't worried too much about the same concerns the rest of the users are having (disabled features, etc.)  considering Sony loves that they can tout this as an example of the PS3's power. 

The Air Force uses OtherOS, which is a disabled feature.  So it's not something Sony can brag about.

That's what I was saying though - you think the Airforce's PS3's have the same restrictions as the off-the-shelf models? 

And even so, Sony doesn't have to be specific about HOW the Airforce is running PS3's, just that they are.  Most people don't know what an OtherOS is anyway.

And this is all moot - I'm not in the Airforce.  I just want to play an online game.  Thank God Steam didn't go down so I can still play TF2.

Removal of OtherOS affects the Airforce as much as anyone else. Just because they don't let their PS3's attach to PSN, there's still the problem of continued support when the hardware dies. Airforce can't buy slims and refurbished units are returned with updated (subsequently removing OtherOS) firmware.

I was incorrect that the Airforce purchased the units directly through Sony, they purchased them through contract with Fixstars.

[Malenko]

Removal of OtherOS affects the Airforce as much as anyone else. Just because they don't let their PS3's attach to PSN, there's still the problem of continued support when the hardware dies. Airforce can't buy slims and refurbished units are returned with updated (subsequently removing OtherOS) firmware.

I was incorrect that the Airforce purchased the units directly through Sony, they purchased them through contract with Fixstars.

That's what I was trying to say but couldn't figure out how to say it, thanks!

[DaveMMR]

Removal of OtherOS affects the Airforce as much as anyone else. Just because they don't let their PS3's attach to PSN, there's still the problem of continued support when the hardware dies. Airforce can't buy slims and refurbished units are returned with updated (subsequently removing OtherOS) firmware.

I was incorrect that the Airforce purchased the units directly through Sony, they purchased them through contract with Fixstars.

Maybe the Airforce should stick to using regular computer hardware instead of video game consoles? 

[Vigo]

Removal of OtherOS affects the Airforce as much as anyone else. Just because they don't let their PS3's attach to PSN, there's still the problem of continued support when the hardware dies. Airforce can't buy slims and refurbished units are returned with updated (subsequently removing OtherOS) firmware.

I was incorrect that the Airforce purchased the units directly through Sony, they purchased them through contract with Fixstars.

Maybe the Airforce should stick to using regular computer hardware instead of video game consoles? 

I remember reading about the Airforce PS3 supercomputer when it came out.....The airforce team opted for PS3's because it would be quite a few thousands less in cost than other hardware options, and met their needs perfectly. It was also a case where they knew the replacements would be readily available for years to come. The airforce had felt slighted since Sony had personally applauded them for using their gaming system to create a supercomputer.

[SavannahLion]

Removal of OtherOS affects the Airforce as much as anyone else. Just because they don't let their PS3's attach to PSN, there's still the problem of continued support when the hardware dies. Airforce can't buy slims and refurbished units are returned with updated (subsequently removing OtherOS) firmware.

I was incorrect that the Airforce purchased the units directly through Sony, they purchased them through contract with Fixstars.

Maybe the Airforce should stick to using regular computer hardware instead of video game consoles? 

I remember reading about the Airforce PS3 supercomputer when it came out.....The airforce team opted for PS3's because it would be quite a few thousands less in cost than other hardware options, and met their needs perfectly. It was also a case where they knew the replacements would be readily available for years to come. The airforce had felt slighted since Sony had personally applauded them for using their gaming system to create a supercomputer.

*EXACTLY*  building a server grade computer (at that time) with that kind of raw horsepower is not cheap. IIRC, the USAF cluster ranks as the 33rd most powerful supercomputer. That's an awful lot of horsepower for not much moola.

Found the Sony marketed PS2 render farm, it was the GSCUBE. Apparently used to render the Ants, a design flaw in the pipeline between the GSCUBE and host PC gave it less than stellar performance numbers.

[CCM]

Removal of OtherOS affects the Airforce as much as anyone else. Just because they don't let their PS3's attach to PSN, there's still the problem of continued support when the hardware dies. Airforce can't buy slims and refurbished units are returned with updated (subsequently removing OtherOS) firmware.

I was incorrect that the Airforce purchased the units directly through Sony, they purchased them through contract with Fixstars.

Maybe the Airforce should stick to using regular computer hardware instead of video game consoles? 

I remember reading about the Airforce PS3 supercomputer when it came out.....The airforce team opted for PS3's because it would be quite a few thousands less in cost than other hardware options, and met their needs perfectly. It was also a case where they knew the replacements would be readily available for years to come. The airforce had felt slighted since Sony had personally applauded them for using their gaming system to create a supercomputer.

*EXACTLY*  building a server grade computer (at that time) with that kind of raw horsepower is not cheap. IIRC, the USAF cluster ranks as the 33rd most powerful supercomputer. That's an awful lot of horsepower for not much moola.

Found the Sony marketed PS2 render farm, it was the GSCUBE. Apparently used to render the Ants, a design flaw in the pipeline between the GSCUBE and host PC gave it less than stellar performance numbers.

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/03/rome_labs_supercomputer_is_mad.html

To custom-build a supercomputer without using commercial off-the-shelf PlayStation 3s would likely have cost 10 times as much, Barnell said. In addition, the Condor uses a fraction of the energy that comparably sized supercomputers use. Portions of it — say 300 machines — can be turned on while the rest are off, depending on a job’s needs.

[SNAAKE]

HERRO!

[DaveMMR]

Excellent.  Does that mean the Airforce can play games online again?

[SavannahLion]

Excellent.  Does that mean the Airforce can play games online again?

 

[versapak]

Excellent.  Does that mean the Airforce can play games online again?

 

Yeah, I gotta agree with that.



DaveMMR, you somehow really got on a big rolling lame in this thread.

[DNA Dan]

What is this welcome back package of CONTENT and services?

[DaveMMR]

Excellent.  Does that mean the Airforce can play games online again?

 

Yeah, I gotta agree with that.



DaveMMR, you somehow really got on a big rolling lame in this thread.

Well sorry I offended you all. I know it's not as gangbusters as some of the "asians sure do talk funny talk" lines in this thread that had all the wit and wisdom of a 1950's Jell-o commercial ("Herro.... ROTFL"? Seriously?) nor was it really ever meant to be. I hope I haven't ruined your experience on this board.

In the future, I will think twice about saying something sarcastic that's not even really a joke but more of a rebellion about how I made a comment about the lack of usefulness of "OtherOS" for most consumers of the PS3 and it turned into a "but the Airforce uses it" derailment to prove otherwise and possibly justify the outrage Sony's customers should harbor. Hasn't convinced me: estimates show that most people with PS3's are actually not using them to power the Airforce and just want to play their games online. Assuming (and at this point, that's all it really is though heavy speculation points in that direction) this outage was caused in response to Sony's removal of the "OtherOS" feature or persecution of George Hotz for exploiting the PS3 to perform similarly, I maintained hackers were fighting a war over stupid reasons for little gain for next-to-no one (USAF branch be damned).  

Instead of saying all that ad naseum, I went with nonsensical little bits of sarcasm that may have been a little childish in hindsight but at least SavannahLion got to whip out his little "lame" graphic.  And Vera, way to springboard off his comment.  You waiting for five pages of comments to make your sole contribution: parroting his line and adding that little extra commentary at the end calling me out for several bad "jokes".  Good job.  Glad you waited for someone else to say it first.
 

Now to rerail this a bit:

What is this welcome back package of CONTENT and services?

They haven't announced much officially besides a free month of service for Playstation Plus and Qriocity. Also there's some talk of the paid MMORPG games (DC Universe Online, etc.) will have the same free month of service credited to current users.  Also, they're offering free credit monitoring for a year for those who want it.  I'm personally hoping for some PSN downloadable titles - couldn't care less about the rest.

Which begs the question: If I take that free PS+ for the month and don't continue, can I keep the free stuff I downloaded for being a temporary member of the premium service?

[DNA Dan]

Which begs the question: If I take that free PS+ for the month and don't continue, can I keep the free stuff I downloaded for being a temporary member of the premium service?

It wouldn't surprise me if you get to use the content for 1 month then it becomes vaporware.

[lilshawn]

[Vigo]

Excellent.  Does that mean the Airforce can play games online again?

 

Yeah, I gotta agree with that.



DaveMMR, you somehow really got on a big rolling lame in this thread.

Well sorry I offended you all. I know it's not as gangbusters as some of the "asians sure do talk funny talk" lines in this thread that had all the wit and wisdom of a 1950's Jell-o commercial ("Herro.... ROTFL"? Seriously?) nor was it really ever meant to be. I hope I haven't ruined your experience on this board.

In the future, I will think twice about saying something sarcastic that's not even really a joke but more of a rebellion about how I made a comment about the lack of usefulness of "OtherOS" for most consumers of the PS3 and it turned into a "but the Airforce uses it" derailment to prove otherwise and possibly justify the outrage Sony's customers should harbor. Hasn't convinced me: estimates show that most people with PS3's are actually not using them to power the Airforce and just want to play their games online. Assuming (and at this point, that's all it really is though heavy speculation points in that direction) this outage was caused in response to Sony's removal of the "OtherOS" feature or persecution of George Hotz for exploiting the PS3 to perform similarly, I maintained hackers were fighting a war over stupid reasons for little gain for next-to-no one (USAF branch be damned).  

Instead of saying all that ad naseum, I went with nonsensical little bits of sarcasm that may have been a little childish in hindsight but at least SavannahLion got to whip out his little "lame" graphic.  And Vera, way to springboard off his comment.  You waiting for five pages of comments to make your sole contribution: parroting his line and adding that little extra commentary at the end calling me out for several bad "jokes".  Good job.  Glad you waited for someone else to say it first.
 

Nobody cares if you think it's a useless feature. Sony marketed and advertised otherOS and Linux support. People paid for the product with that feature as promised. Later Sony took it away. How more simple can it get? It's a classic bait and switch. Sony. Bad. End of Line.

It's like if someone bought a fancy car with an onboard computer system, and when he updated the GPS maps it disabled the car radio. The owner would be mad. From your logic, you would be telling the owner to STFU, because the radio is overrated, and a car is meant to drive, not listen to music, and they probably would have bought the car if it didn't have a radio anyway.


So yeah, we label your comments as .

[DaveMMR]

Excellent.  Does that mean the Airforce can play games online again?

 

Yeah, I gotta agree with that.



DaveMMR, you somehow really got on a big rolling lame in this thread.

Well sorry I offended you all. I know it's not as gangbusters as some of the "asians sure do talk funny talk" lines in this thread that had all the wit and wisdom of a 1950's Jell-o commercial ("Herro.... ROTFL"? Seriously?) nor was it really ever meant to be. I hope I haven't ruined your experience on this board.

In the future, I will think twice about saying something sarcastic that's not even really a joke but more of a rebellion about how I made a comment about the lack of usefulness of "OtherOS" for most consumers of the PS3 and it turned into a "but the Airforce uses it" derailment to prove otherwise and possibly justify the outrage Sony's customers should harbor. Hasn't convinced me: estimates show that most people with PS3's are actually not using them to power the Airforce and just want to play their games online. Assuming (and at this point, that's all it really is though heavy speculation points in that direction) this outage was caused in response to Sony's removal of the "OtherOS" feature or persecution of George Hotz for exploiting the PS3 to perform similarly, I maintained hackers were fighting a war over stupid reasons for little gain for next-to-no one (USAF branch be damned).  

Instead of saying all that ad naseum, I went with nonsensical little bits of sarcasm that may have been a little childish in hindsight but at least SavannahLion got to whip out his little "lame" graphic.  And Vera, way to springboard off his comment.  You waiting for five pages of comments to make your sole contribution: parroting his line and adding that little extra commentary at the end calling me out for several bad "jokes".  Good job.  Glad you waited for someone else to say it first.
 

Nobody cares if you think it's a useless feature. Sony marketed and advertised otherOS and Linux support. People paid for the product with that feature as promised. Later Sony took it away. How more simple can it get? It's a classic bait and switch. Sony. Bad. End of Line.

It's like if someone bought a fancy car with an onboard computer system, and when he updated the GPS maps it disabled the car radio. The owner would be mad. From your logic, you would be telling the owner to STFU, because the radio is overrated, and a car is meant to drive, not listen to music, and they probably would have bought the car if it didn't have a radio anyway.


So yeah, we label your comments as .

I label stupid little graphics in place of intelligent debate as lame.  Disagree with me if you like, but don't be a tool.

Now to address your comparison: a car radio is something most people use in their car; OtherOS was something most people didn't. I don't have hard data to back that up but the basic design of consoles is that of simplicity - i.e. it takes very little technical intelligence to use it as intended, to play games. These ARE NOT people looking to dick around with their investments to see if they can run Linux for whatever reason. I DID do some very unscientific research and asked my friends how they felt about the removal of OtherOS. Out of about ten people, approximately ZERO of them knew what the hell I was talking about.

Okay so now you know I'm concentrating on the average (read: non-technical) consumers. They didn't blink when this ability was taken away. However, they spent weeks without access to their online games quite possibly because a statistically SMALL group of people were miffed about it.  And I admitted that I wasn't even really sure what OtherOS or any other hack did that was significant other than (and I paraphrase myself here) "meh homebrew and copyright infringement" that would work better than a cheap PC.  The only real answer I got was a two-page primer on how the Airforce utilizes it and also that it works well as an inexpensive server. Call me cynical, but I'm guessing the people who were most upset with the loss of OtherOS were not in either camp.

But I'm not being fair.  You can be mad at Sony*. If you used OtherOS legitimately (or hell even illegitimately, who am I to judge), you have a right to be upset. However, you DO NOT have the right to disrupt a large corporation, inconvenience 77 million consumers and expose them to credit fraud because of it. Who's that protecting?  

(*I even remarked in a previous post that Sony was stupid to even advertise such a feature existed. They set themselves up for trouble by doing sp.)

[Vigo]

Excellent.  Does that mean the Airforce can play games online again?

 

Yeah, I gotta agree with that.



DaveMMR, you somehow really got on a big rolling lame in this thread.

Well sorry I offended you all. I know it's not as gangbusters as some of the "asians sure do talk funny talk" lines in this thread that had all the wit and wisdom of a 1950's Jell-o commercial ("Herro.... ROTFL"? Seriously?) nor was it really ever meant to be. I hope I haven't ruined your experience on this board.

In the future, I will think twice about saying something sarcastic that's not even really a joke but more of a rebellion about how I made a comment about the lack of usefulness of "OtherOS" for most consumers of the PS3 and it turned into a "but the Airforce uses it" derailment to prove otherwise and possibly justify the outrage Sony's customers should harbor. Hasn't convinced me: estimates show that most people with PS3's are actually not using them to power the Airforce and just want to play their games online. Assuming (and at this point, that's all it really is though heavy speculation points in that direction) this outage was caused in response to Sony's removal of the "OtherOS" feature or persecution of George Hotz for exploiting the PS3 to perform similarly, I maintained hackers were fighting a war over stupid reasons for little gain for next-to-no one (USAF branch be damned). 

Instead of saying all that ad naseum, I went with nonsensical little bits of sarcasm that may have been a little childish in hindsight but at least SavannahLion got to whip out his little "lame" graphic.  And Vera, way to springboard off his comment.  You waiting for five pages of comments to make your sole contribution: parroting his line and adding that little extra commentary at the end calling me out for several bad "jokes".  Good job.  Glad you waited for someone else to say it first.
 

Nobody cares if you think it's a useless feature. Sony marketed and advertised otherOS and Linux support. People paid for the product with that feature as promised. Later Sony took it away. How more simple can it get? It's a classic bait and switch. Sony. Bad. End of Line.

It's like if someone bought a fancy car with an onboard computer system, and when he updated the GPS maps it disabled the car radio. The owner would be mad. From your logic, you would be telling the owner to STFU, because the radio is overrated, and a car is meant to drive, not listen to music, and they probably would have bought the car if it didn't have a radio anyway.


So yeah, we label your comments as .

I label stupid little graphics in place of intelligent debate as lame.  Disagree with me if you like, but don't be a tool.

Now to address your comparison: a car radio is something most people use in their car; OtherOS was something most people didn't. I don't have hard data to back that up but the basic design of consoles is that of simplicity - i.e. it takes very little technical intelligence to use it as intended, to play games. These ARE NOT people looking to dick around with their investments to see if they can run Linux for whatever reason. I DID do some very unscientific research and asked my friends how they felt about the removal of OtherOS. Out of about ten people, approximately ZERO of them knew what the hell I was talking about.

Okay so now you know I'm concentrating on the average (read: non-technical) consumers. They didn't blink when this ability was taken away. However, they spent weeks without access to their online games quite possibly because a statistically SMALL group of people were miffed about it.  And I admitted that I wasn't even really sure what OtherOS or any other hack did that was significant other than (and I paraphrase myself here) "meh homebrew and copyright infringement" that would work better than a cheap PC.  The only real answer I got was a two-page primer on how the Airforce utilizes it and also that it works well as an inexpensive server. Call me cynical, but I'm guessing the people who were most upset with the loss of OtherOS were not in either camp.

But I'm not being fair.  You can be mad at Sony*. If you used OtherOS legitimately (or hell even illegitimately, who am I to judge), you have a right to be upset. However, you DO NOT have the right to disrupt a large corporation, inconvenience 77 million consumers and expose them to credit fraud because of it. Who's that protecting? 

(*I even remarked in a previous post that Sony was stupid to even advertise such a feature existed. They set themselves up for trouble by doing sp.)

It's a forum...there are stupid little graphics all over it.  If you feel so upset about it that you want to directly insult people for using cheeky graphics, then maybe you might want to take a step back from the debate. Just sayin'.

Now the car thing is still valid, it doesn't matter how "in demand" of a feature we are talking about...and even if it did, you are only applying your view of what you think the common user will use. With a these high end cars that include a CD player, mp3, XML radio and more, the little standard radio would rarely get used. But even if we were talking about a feature that most car users would not use, say the ability to digitally control hydraulics on cars modified with a hydraulic suspension. You would have a number of buyers purchase that car so they can mod their car in to use that feature. Take that away, and I call foul.

I understand that you are more addressing that you personally don't feel it's a big deal, but what Sony did is illegal, even though they have good enough lawyers save their ass, they did really piss off a lot of people. Maybe more on a matter of principal than anything, but it is bad business.

As far as the hacking of PSN goes, I would really say that this has very little to do with it. Any twerps out there wanting to hack PSN in this manner would do it regardless of Sony's business practices. If they are trying to send out a message to the world about Sony, then they did it the wrong way. Didn't hackers used to have a little more panache?

[lilshawn]

[Malenko]

So Dave, its Ok for Sony to pull features but its not Ok to practice Civil Disobedience?

I used OtherOS, granted not to the extent of others but I was pissed it was pulled. Obviously *SOME* people used it or the backlash from removing it would not have happened. Vigo's analogy is SPOT ON. Even if you never listen to the radio, its nice to know its there.

Why do you put the blame of the credit card theft squarely on "the hackers"?  Should Sony protect that particular information a ton better than they did? If I leave my debit card underneath my windshield wiper should I get pissed when someone takes it?

[DNA Dan]

Sony lied plain and simple. This is nothing new to the average informed consumer. If at any time you buy a Sony product without the expectation that it fail prematurely, not work, or not work as advertised, then you're fooling yourself. A lot of companies do this. They sell on the hype, then when sales are low they rehash the hype into something else, a new form factor, a new color, a new package, etc. That's how these ultra large companies work.

I agree with others that no matter how small or big the selling feature, it should be a crime to not deliver on it. They should make a law that if you buy something and it doesn't work as advertised, you are entitled to your money back. See the issue here is that stupid license agreement. I bet somewhere in there is states that Sony reserves the right to change whatever it wants on your PS3 without your consent. In essence the "features" they hype up during sales is not what you're buying, you're just buying hardware with a promise they decide to deliver on the hype. It doesn't make it right though... and I would be pissed if this was a feature I used. I think what Dave is saying is it doesn't justify the damage done to Sony, because ultimately it hurts consumers more than Sony. There's two issues here: 1) Sony pulling out of features it used to sell the console and 2) Does that justify what happened to them (Or basically the average consumer.)

I agree Sony needs a good ass smacking, but not at the consumer's expense. I am vulnerable to identity theft now just because some stupid hackers lacked the cajones to use a suicide bomber on Sony headquarters. The internet has made us all so lazy.  

[Mikezilla]

Well, the thing that I dont understand, is why everyone is so pissed. I get the whole possible identity theft thing, and that sony knew thier protection was sub par, but regarding loss of service, the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- is free. Why is everyone so mad? If you do pay for the PSN+ they are compensating you a month anyway. I wasnt upset that I couldnt play my PS3 online for awhile, whats the big deal anyway? The odds of your stuff getting stolen are nil, and honestly, if you use your credit card, you are asking for a pain in the ass down the road cause this kind of stuff happens all the time. Not exactly to the big companies, but thats because they normally take the proper measures to make sure stuff like this doesnt happen. Thats where Sony is stupid. They didnt want to shell out the money to make sure their defenses wouldnt be compromised, and now they are paying for it.

[Malenko]

Someone needs to go consult a dictionary and read up on what civil disobedience means.

The hacking was done by professional criminals, not neckbeards pissed about OtherOS.

Any cluster the Air Force was running on PS3s had more to do with recruiting than it did actual utility.

troll bait taken, +5 XP

I looked it up, and I'm sure I used it in context.
Civil disobedience is the active, professed refusal to obey certain laws, demands, and commands of a government, or of an occupying international power. Civil disobedience is commonly, though not always, defined as being nonviolent resistance. It is one form of civil resistance.

Now your turn to look up reading comprehension. I said the DDoS was CD, not stealing 100 million credit card numbers.

[DaveMMR]

First off Vigo, I was not implying you are a tool.  But I'm not big on the using of emoticons in place of (instead of enhancing) disagreement, thoughts or opinions - to which I called "toolish behavoir".  I sincerely apologize if it was taken that way.

Secondly, Malenko, this is not a case of "civil disobedience":

Electronic civil disobedience can include web site defacements, redirects, denial-of-service attacks, information theft, illegal web site parodies, virtual sit-ins, and virtual sabotage. It is distinct from other kinds of hacktivism in that the perpetrator openly reveals his identity.

 And let's not compare protest over unjust laws or government practices with a video game console losing minor functionality.

Finally, I decided to rethink the OtherOS-to-car radio analogy.  I'll run with it.  So if your car radio is disabled by that new GPS you install, it begs the question: Why are you installing that GPS?  Okay, so you HAVE to (car maker requiring it)?  Then why do you still have that car?  Why not go with a different car that isn't at stringent with its requirements as to third-tiered features? And finally, why are you buying your cars based solely on the radio?  Read: Did any of you buy a PS3 solely because of it's OtherOS feature?

But let me reiterate that I do agree people have a reason to be upset about removal of any feature originally advertised.  You probably agreed that Sony can and will be allowed to remove any feature they see fit for any reason when you agreed to their terms of service (so I'm thinking "not illegal").  But I'm just a gamer and I just don't see why the removal of this feature is cause for mass hysteria (or hacking Sony's servers - assuming that was the motivation).  The PS3 still plays my games just fine.  I understand that if I want to hang out in Sony's house, I have to abide by their rules, like it or lump it.  Otherwise, I can just take my money elsewhere.

BTW: I'm fully convinced Sony just boned everything up in Generation Seven's efforts. Everything they tried to do "differently" either caused problems in the long run and/or blew up in their face. We would not be having this discussion if they just made a game system instead of a "supercomputer that plays games".  And maybe this whole ordeal was a good thing (as one such article pointed out) - it humbled Sony a bit.  Maybe they'll dial back the "features" for the PS4 and concentrate on simply providing home entertainment instead.

[Vigo]

First off Vigo, I was not implying you are a tool.  But I'm not big on the using of emoticons in place of (instead of enhancing) disagreement, thoughts or opinions - to which I called "toolish behavoir".  I sincerely apologize if it was taken that way.

Thank you.

Finally, I decided to rethink the OtherOS-to-car radio analogy.  I'll run with it.  So if your car radio is disabled by that new GPS you install, it begs the question: Why are you installing that GPS?  Okay, so you HAVE to (car maker requiring it)?  Then why do you still have that car?  Why not go with a different car that isn't at stringent with its requirements as to third-tiered features? And finally, why are you buying your cars based solely on the radio?  Read: Did any of you buy a PS3 solely because of it's OtherOS feature?

I'll answer your questions in analogy form.

Why are you installing that GPS? 

Your car came with the GPS as part of the Nav computer. You are merely updating the maps on the Nav so you can get around. Outdated maps mean that it won't function like it was meant to.

Okay, so you HAVE to (car maker requiring it)?  Then why do you still have that car?

You don't have to, but with your Nav system, all updates are bundled together. And to use other features such as your Onstar system and satelite networking, you need to do an all around update. You can either choose between sacrificing the radio, or not using any features that require regular updates, which is aa ton of them. And chances are, you updated your Nav system without even knowing that it was going to disable your radio.

Why not go with a different car that isn't at stringent with its requirements as to third-tiered features?

You bought the car before they decided to do this. Since your car cost a ton of money can you cannot get good resale value, you are stuck with this particular car.

And finally, why are you buying your cars based solely on the radio?  Read: Did any of you buy a PS3 solely because of it's OtherOS feature?

You didn't buy solely based on the radio. You looked over all the features and decided to go with this car. You PAID for the radio, as it was included in the features your car was priced for.

[Malenko]

Secondly, Malenko, this is not a case of "civil disobedience":

Electronic civil disobedience can include web site defacements, redirects, denial-of-service attacks, information theft, illegal web site parodies, virtual sit-ins, and virtual sabotage. It is distinct from other kinds of hacktivism in that the perpetrator openly reveals his identity.

  And let's not compare protest over unjust laws or government practices with a video game console losing minor functionality.

How is it not?

Electronic civil disobedience can include web site defacements, redirects, denial-of-service attacks, information theft, illegal web site parodies, virtual sit-ins, and virtual sabotage. It is distinct from other kinds of hacktivism in that the perpetrator openly reveals his identity.

Anonymous did a denial-of-service attack. The group does what they do and hid who they are as individuals but never who they are as a group. I wont argue semantics, it is an act of civil disobedience.   Unjust laws, government practices, unjust law breaking, why shouldnt we protest?

[DaveMMR]

How is it not?

Electronic civil disobedience can include web site defacements, redirects, denial-of-service attacks, information theft, illegal web site parodies, virtual sit-ins, and virtual sabotage. It is distinct from other kinds of hacktivism in that the perpetrator openly reveals his identity.

Anonymous did a denial-of-service attack. The group does what they do and hid who they are as individuals but never who they are as a group. I wont argue semantics, it is an act of civil disobedience.   Unjust laws, government practices, unjust law breaking, why shouldnt we protest?

I'm referring to the attack on Sony's server which appears to be more than a mere DOS attack.  Anonymous officially denied responsibility.  Also this attack was hardly victimless; it affected 77 million people.  Also, do you want to be comparing the work of civil rights leaders with over-reaction to strong customer dissatisfaction over was is technically a luxury item?

As for the car radio analogy again (too much to quote), assuming all that happened and the radio was rendered useless, there would be bad publicity for the car company and amends would need to be made - because everyone would notice.   There was minimal outcry (based on number of users) over OtherOS because only the most hardcore noticed.  That's why, I believe, it's not a fair comparison.

Again, still ---smurfy--- on Sony's part.   But I feel this is being more of a controversy than it needs to be.

[Vigo]

It might be of interest (but little surprise) that Sony has a Better Business Bureau rating of F. Meanwhile Nintendo and Microsoft are sitting with an A+.

And it looks like Sony was an F for quite a while as well. At least a year now.

[DaveMMR]

It might be of interest (but little surprise) that Sony has a Better Business Bureau rating of F. Meanwhile Nintendo and Microsoft are sitting with an A+.

And it looks like Sony was an F for quite a while as well. At least a year now.

Oh, absolutely no surprise here - as I said they completely dropped the ball and sucked hard this generation.  I'm only a customer because they fulfill my immediate entertainment needs and that's all I ask from them.  But removing features without adequate explanation, keeping people in the dark about the outage when it affect credit card information and their general cockiness in the beginning was all just terrible.  Granted, I'm arguing about OtherOS being an unimportant feature in the grand scheme of things (there are bigger fish to fry in this universe) - but I am also not defending Sony for their decision either.

Meanwhile, Japan isn't even letting them reconnect PSN in their country.
http://techland.time.com/2011/05/16/japan-not-letting-sony-bring-playstation-back-online-in-its-home-country/

[Malenko]

I'm referring to the attack on Sony's server which appears to be more than a mere DOS attack.

You DO know there was more then 1 attack on Sony right? Please tell me you knew that.  Ok, now that you do know that now, can you apply everything I said to the DDoS attack anonymous did and not to the credit card theft someone else did?

[DaveMMR]

I'm referring to the attack on Sony's server which appears to be more than a mere DOS attack.

You DO know there was more then 1 attack on Sony right? Please tell me you knew that.  Ok, now that you do know that now, can you apply everything I said to the DDoS attack anonymous did and not to the credit card theft someone else did?

Yes I do know that Anonymous conducted a DDoS attack separate but was not aware you referring to that specific attack.  All the same, still hate referring to it as "civil disobedience" but I'll concede if that's what you're referring to.

[hypernova]

I had read about them restoring services over the weekend.

And when they did, about 10 minutes later, it all crashed again, due to "heavy traffic".

Problem, Sony?  You have about the same number of customers (actually, probably less) on your network than you did before disabling the network, but you couldn't handle the volume?

Apparently they can handle it now.

[SNAAKE]

do I still need a credit card # for the "welcome back package"? dont feel safe yo...

[Samstag]

I had read about them restoring services over the weekend.

And when they did, about 10 minutes later, it all crashed again, due to "heavy traffic".

Problem, Sony?  You have about the same number of customers (actually, probably less) on your network than you did before disabling the network, but you couldn't handle the volume?

Apparently they can handle it now.

The new advanced security system was a guy named Larry who had to approve every new connection on a case-by-case basis.

[CCM]

Two free games when the store comes back online...


http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2932915

[HaRuMaN]

Also today Sony said PSN customers will get to choose a free video game to download. PS3 owners can choose from a list that includes Dead Nation, inFAMOUS, LittleBigPlanet, Super Stardust HD, and Wipeout HD + Fury, all titles that would normally cost between $10 and $20. PSP owners can choose one free game from among LittleBigPlanet (PSP), ModNation Racers, Pursuit Force, and Killzone Liberation. The offer lasts for 30 days once the PlayStation Store returns, but once downloaded the game can be kept forever.

Read more: http://news.cnet.com/8301-31021_3-20063251-260.html#ixzz1McamIaT0

[Dartful Dodger]

I've been wanting to pick up inFAMOUS for a while, but none of the other games interest me.

Also

How does the PSN work. Can PSP gamers play against PS3 gamers?

A buddy of mine has the PSP, if he got ModNation for the PSP would he be able to race against me playing the PS3?

[Mikezilla]

I already beat inFAMOUS, but what about that Dead Nation game? Is it a zombie game?!

[DaveMMR]

I didn't understand that if you get free games for the PS3 AND the PSP (assuming you have each) or you have to choose one or the other.  Because I was thinking about Little Big Planet PSP but I rather get PS3 games if I have to choose...

[Vigo]

I didn't understand that if you get free games for the PS3 AND the PSP (assuming you have each) or you have to choose one or the other.  Because I was thinking about Little Big Planet PSP but I rather get PS3 games if I have to choose...

Not to mention that players who already own most or all of those games on the list do not get much to choose from. Nothing like taking a dump on your most loyal of fans by making only a few games available.

[Dartful Dodger]

Sony PSN 'gets hacked again'

When they opened up PSN the people that hacked into it used the information they took in the first place and spent last night changing passwords.


That would explain why I was able to enjoy playing last night.

I knew it was too good to be true.

I actually won races in Modnation and I killed more than I was killed in Battlefield.

[DNA Dan]

JEEEZZZZUSSSS!! You mean the info used to authenticate for new passwords is actually the information that was previously stolen? Are these people retards?

I'm waiting for the Sony retinal scan peripheral coming out next month. Only 59.99 if you preorder today...   

[lilshawn]

JEEEZZZZUSSSS!! You mean the info used to authenticate for new passwords is actually the information that was previously stolen? Are these people retards?

uhm ya, ya they are.

I'm waiting for the Sony retinal scan peripheral coming out next month. Only 59.99 if you preorder today...   

i'm thinking more of a colonoscopy scan. it would seem to fit the situation a little better.

[Malenko]

Wheres the PS3 fanbois at saying that this is a good thing?

[Vigo]

I swear, man, it's like these companies learned nothing from the 1990s. 

Maybe that's the problem. I hear they hired Fisher Stevens as the head of their PSN System Security division. He skateboarded around the office, so they figured he was evil enough to stop those crazy old hackers.

[HaRuMaN]

The Plague: "Our recent unknown intruder penetrated using the superuser account, giving him access to our whole system."

[DNA Dan]

Inside job?

[lilshawn]

Inside job?

retarded job in the first place.

you'd think they would start from scratch, but them PlayStation users would be all like..

"eeeeegnh wheres my trophies?!" or yachtswomen or whatever you are supposed to "win" with these things

[Dartful Dodger]

Wheres the PS3 fanbois at saying that this is a good thing?

Unlike the Xbox fanbois, our PS3 isn't just for games. Not playing online games will give us more time to watch Bluray movies.

Hopefully this second attack will bring us even more free stuff from Sony.

[Donkbaca]

yeah, totally I think its worth to play 300 bucks for a blu ray player when I can get one for under a hundred.  Blu ray is the next betamax, streaming is the way of the future

[lilshawn]

yeah, totally I think its worth to play 300 bucks for a blu ray player when I can get one for under a hundred.  Blu ray is the next betamax, streaming is the way of the future

i have a DVD player on the main TV, and to be quite honest, since i started using XBMC i don't need it. i used the DVD player maybe 3 times since i bought it... all of our DVD's are in the minivan for the kids to watch anyway. 

[hypernova]

Sony says "Nuh uh!  No it didn't!

[Dartful Dodger]

Sony saying their the network was not hacked is like Clinton saying he did not have sexual relations with that woman.



If someone finds and uses sensitive information on your website, no matter how poorly it was hidden, you've been hacked.

[lilshawn]

Sony says "Nuh uh!  No it didn't!

hacked....exploited.... security hole.... whatevs. same bullplop different pile.

[SavannahLion]

I swear, man, it's like these companies learned nothing from the 1990s.

I'd piss on you but I can't. I honestly cannot find anything even remotely wrong with this statement. These kind of mistakes are what First Years would make.

So for the people who had their PSN account passwords changed without their knowledge, what's Sony going to do about them?

"eeeeegnh wheres my trophies?!" or yachtswomen or whatever you are supposed to "win" with these things

Strangely enough, I still haven't figured out what good the Trophies are. Is it like a  measurement thing? Is there some sort of PSN  place where those morons go, stick their trophies in and see what pulls from the other side?

[Malenko]

yeah, totally I think its worth to play 300 bucks for a blu ray player when I can get one for under a hundred.  Blu ray is the next betamax, streaming is the way of the future

He was being sarcastic (I hope)


Trophies are Sony's "answer" to Gamer Score. Same thing, only slightly lamer.

[Dartful Dodger]

So for the people who had their PSN account passwords changed without their knowledge, what's Sony going to do about them?

If I'm reading it correctly when you turn on your PS3/PSP it will ask you to reset your password. This way you're not locked out if someone else set your password earlier using another computer.

So now if you have a stolen PS3, or if your brother doesn't let you use his PS3, you'll be able to sign in and reset their password to what you want.

[Dartful Dodger]

yeah, totally I think its worth to play 300 bucks for a blu ray player when I can get one for under a hundred.  Blu ray is the next betamax, streaming is the way of the future

He was being sarcastic (I hope)

Sarcastic, with a hint of truth.

As bad as the troubles the PS3 is having right now, it's still better than an xBox.

In another day (if not already) we'll be back to enjoying free online play, on a more powerful system.

[Donkbaca]

Well If you believe that, fine.  Who cares about power?  The non-exclusive games run about the same.  If you look at lensoftruth.com, half the comparisons are won by xbox, half are ps3, most are soo close that its a tie.  The xbox has a WAY better online experience. Yeah you have to pay for it, but its 40 bucks a year.  Don't see why 40 bucks a year would seem like a deal breaker to someone willing to pay 300 bucks for a blue ray player.  Kinect is way better than the move, oh yeah, and as far as I know, Microsoft never let hackers steal 120 million credit card numbers....

[Dartful Dodger]

The xbox has a WAY better online experience.

What does that even mean? I can (when it's working) play online games. What more do I need? (besides 40 extra more bucks a year)

I'm playing online games to pretend I'm racing a car or fighting in a battle, not to pretend I have friends.

Kinect is way better than the move

Again with the "way better", what are you a 12 year old girl?

Agreed, Kinect is a better gimmick, too bad it's only good for dance games.

Dance little girl, dance.

oh yeah, and as far as I know, Microsoft never let hackers steal 120 million credit card numbers....

Oh yeah, and as far as you know, Sony never let hackers steal 120 million credit card numbers...

[Vigo]

It looks like Darty is starting up a console war in this thread. Fight! Fight! 

[HaRuMaN]

Kinect Star Wars comes out in December...   

[Donkbaca]

What does that even mean? I can (when it's working) play online games. What more do I need? (besides 40 extra more bucks a year)

I'm playing online games to pretend I'm racing a car or fighting in a battle, not to pretend I have friends.

Let me clear it up.  way better.  Its easier to find friends and connect with people.  The layout is better, its less laggy and drops less.  Easier to navigate. Oh yeah, and it doesn't go offline for weeks because someone stole 120 million credit card numbers from its subscribers....

Again with the "way better", what are you a 12 year old girl?

Agreed, Kinect is a better gimmick, too bad it's only good for dance games.

Dance little girl, dance

I very well may be a 12 year old girl.  If so you have just blown your chance at the Jr. High dance, since I am guessing you are a 12 year old boy by your thoughtful, persuasive arguments. Hopefully you find a date to the dance, and if I see you there I will dance way better than you because I have been practicing on my Kinect.

The move is a blatant wii ripoff.  The kinect on the other hand is something different.  It is also the fastest consumer selling device ever.  A lot of people, apparently, like to dance.  Plus if you ever visit make or hackerspace or instrucatbles, you can see people are repurposing it for all sorts of neat stuff.  It might be a better "gimmick" its still better.

Oh yeah, and as far as you know, Sony never let hackers steal 120 million credit card numbers...

Ok as far as I know, Sony had 120 million card numbers stolen and their initial reaction was "oh ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---! what do we do... um Hanzo! Quick, put up a down for maintenance screen while we figure this out!"  As far as I know, that has never happened with the x-box.

[SavannahLion]

True, ratcheting up Microsoft Live store points for free is infinitely better for us than having 77+ million records stolen.

I'm not being sarcastic.... no really, I'm not.

But then, is there any truth to the talks of users intentionally triggering bans for other users on Live? I know there's a thread about it around somewhere.

[hypernova]

I can't find anything on my initial google search on that.  Every banned article I find is either about how to avoid it (don't mod and other obvious tips) or people who've been rightly banned.

I remember the Live points hack.  Didn't they get identified anyway, then banned?  Maybe not all of them, but the idiots who went a little overboard adding tens of thousands at once, or continuously adding them.

[shateredsoul]

It's all about Nintendo DS yo!

Ds two card, NDS games, Gameboy Advance, gameboy color,  game boy,

[Malenko]

 

[HaRuMaN]

Well, I can get back into PSN, now, but I haven't been able to get my free games yet.  PSN Store is currently undergoing maintenance...   

[Mikezilla]

Well, I can get back into PSN, now, but I haven't been able to get my free games yet.  PSN Store is currently undergoing maintenance...   

Yeah they dont expect to bring the PSN back up until May 24th. 

[shateredsoul]

it happened again, this time they took users psn points, I'd recommend using pre-paid cards to make purchases

http://www.destructoid.com/hackers-continue-to-attack-sony-start-stealing-money-201690.phtml

[SavannahLion]

it happened again, this time they took users psn points, I'd recommend using pre-paid cards to make purchases

http://www.destructoid.com/hackers-continue-to-attack-sony-start-stealing-money-201690.phtml

This isn't directly related to PSN. At least it doesn't seem to. If you notice, the article you link to is actually from a Gamasutra article. That is the fateful flaw in 90% of all blogs and why I think most bloggers need to die a horrible death, their inability to link to the original source (not in that case, strangely enough) and their inability to stick with the facts (apparently the case here). But I digress, It appears So-Net is an ISP provider that offers a portal allowing subscribers to earn and redeem online points. Not necessarily PS3/PSN related.

You should still use prepaid cards anyways. No argument from me.

[shateredsoul]

ahh thanks for the clarification, It's still a repeat Sony attack, just not through psn. Funny how you trust people to interpret info correctly and report it honestly. It's like that phone game.. by the time the news gets to us it may be heavily distorted. I'm just surprised that the people behind this have been so how do gutsy. I mean, it seems like they're not afraid of any consequences. I'd be shitting my pants if I had any government trying to find me.

[SavannahLion]

It may not be the same people. Think about it. Those people who made off with 77+million records literally have billions worth of credit card and people's identities in their hands. Why hack another Sony network for a mere 100,000 yen? And only 128 people? And to make any use out of it, they have to transfer the points into something tangible and hence, easily traceable. That's a laughably absurd crime for someone(s) operating on that scale. The cat burgler uses Amazon's Cloud to pull off the biggest virtual crime in history* then use their own laptop to steal 100k Yen?  

I'll bet it's just some bored script kiddie that discovered an exploit and took advantage of it. Probably more likely a crime of opportunity than any real planning.

*I don't really know if it is the biggest virtual crime. Don't really care.

[DNA Dan]

Seems like other groups are kicking the pig while it's in the mud. I bet the executives at Toyota are celebrating. Haven't heard much amount that mess in a while.

[SavannahLion]

I bet the executives at Toyota are celebrating.

Apples and Oranges dude. I doubt Grandma Gennie with the heavy foot goes home after Bingo night to play FPS games on her PS3.

[blackzc]

All this drama is pushing me even further away from any console online gaming. The people are crap, the restraints are to much and something something to finish the sentence with 3 points.

I dont play consoles online very often so this is more an affirmation.

[Dartful Dodger]

I just want to relax and spend a half an hour playing, but there are people online that live online so I it's not enjoyable.

Right now Mod Nation is the only game I can enjoy, even when I lose at least I feel like I had a chance.  The only problem with Mod Nation is I'm waiting for the game/track to load almost as long as I'm playing.

[hypernova]

I just read that some games, including the new Dirt 3 REQUIRE the use of the PSN Store to play online.  Which of course is still under maintenance.

Ridiculous. 

[Mikezilla]

I just read that some games, including the new Dirt 3 REQUIRE the use of the PSN Store to play online.  Which of course is still under maintenance.

Ridiculous. 

What the hell? Where is the logic in that?! 

[shateredsoul]

for serial? =<

[DaveMMR]

I just read that some games, including the new Dirt 3 REQUIRE the use of the PSN Store to play online.  Which of course is still under maintenance.

Ridiculous. 

What the hell? Where is the logic in that?! 

I think I had to do the same thing with my copy of NHL '11 (at least, for online play).  It's to combat used game sales cutting into the their profits.  Pity it depends on a network that's offline... 

[DNA Dan]

Just got an email from Sony. They are offering 1 year of credit monitoring Identity theft monitoring through a company called Debix. This is for all PSN members as of April 20th and Qriocity members as well. Seeing that the info has been out there over a month now, this really seems a little too late. I think it's proof however that card numbers are being used. Simply pleasing upset customers has never really been big sony's mantra. I suspect this is pressure coming from VISA.

[hypernova]

They essentially HAD to do this.  Anything less would make them look...well, if it's possible, worse.

[hypernova]

Now apparently a group called Lulzsec is getting in on the action.

Sony not paying much attention...

[Dartful Dodger]

The store was up (last light anyway), but I couldn't figure out how to get my free inFamous game.

[HaRuMaN]

The store was up (last light anyway), but I couldn't figure out how to get my free inFamous game.

The welcome back package isn't available yet... 

[DaveMMR]

The store was up (last light anyway), but I couldn't figure out how to get my free inFamous game.

The welcome back package isn't available yet... 

It is now.   

It looks like my question from earlier was answered:  If you own a PSP and PS3, you get four games (two each). 

How it's set up is that there are six entries in the WELCOME BACK screen.  The first one is a free trial of Playstation Plus - it does not auto-renew.  The second and third entries are for Free PS3 Game One and Two, respectively.  They both contain the same five games.  If you registered a PSP, you have two more boxes set up the same way but for PSP games.  Finally, the last box is a free theme - Pixel Land.  I like the idea of the theme, but it's a little too busy for my liking.  Oh well.

When I logged on this morning, I was getting errors constantly, so I am assuming there is a lot of traffic. 

At any rate, the selection seems "okay".  I do want to get Little Big Planet for the PSP but that means I need a bigger Memory Stick, so these freebies are actually costing me money.      (Well, really I can't really blame anyone but myself - the other games available do fit on my stick...)

Still haven't settled on the PS3 games...

[DNA Dan]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110610/tc_nm/us_spain_anonymous

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

[Malenko]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110610/tc_nm/us_spain_anonymous

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

cannot wait to see how they prove it.  Im aslo sure the arrests were due to the hacking of banks and not the hacking of sony.

[SavannahLion]

Apparently the deadline to sign up for the free year of "ID Protection" expires June 28. Anybody sign up for that service?

I was going to do it tonight but I had second thoughts. Did a bit of Googling but didn't find much of anything about the service offered in my area (AllClear by Debix) outside of anything related to Sony.

I finally got around to getting into my PSN account and double checked my settings. Besides my address, I actually put very little information in, much less a credit card. Best anyone can do is do a reverse search on who owns my home but my name isn't on the deed anyways. Knock on wood, but it looks like my laziness at filling out forms paid off. 

[DNA Dan]

Thanks for the deadline info. I contemplated signing up but I don't want to be hassled with having to cancel something a year later. I'll have to look into the details more.

I'd much rather have credit monitoring since that seems to have more of an immediate impact. Although I am sure identity theft is much more difficult to fight.

[hypernova]

I'm more interested in seeing Lulzsec get rounded up one by one.  They seem to be taking things a bit too far lately, talking about posting names and passwords and all sorts of info just because they can.