Who hacked PSN?

[DNA Dan]

Also I don't think so highly of credit card companies so I figured I'd let them deal with it.

Wouldn't that make you a little MORE proactive regarding the situation?

No, because it's their money.

[DaveMMR]

I may be wrong, but didn't the Airforce purchase the PS3's along with a support contract basically guaranteeing hardware support from Sony? Afterall, it's not like you buy a few hundred PS3 consoles from your local Wally World on short notice.

I'll have to take your word for it there but I'm guessing the Airforce isn't worried too much about the same concerns the rest of the users are having (disabled features, etc.)  considering Sony loves that they can tout this as an example of the PS3's power. 

The Air Force uses OtherOS, which is a disabled feature.  So it's not something Sony can brag about.

That's what I was saying though - you think the Airforce's PS3's have the same restrictions as the off-the-shelf models? 

And even so, Sony doesn't have to be specific about HOW the Airforce is running PS3's, just that they are.  Most people don't know what an OtherOS is anyway.

And this is all moot - I'm not in the Airforce.  I just want to play an online game.  Thank God Steam didn't go down so I can still play TF2.

[hypernova]

No, because it's their money.

It still takes some of your time to help straighten the situation out, so okie dokie.

[SavannahLion]

I may be wrong, but didn't the Airforce purchase the PS3's along with a support contract basically guaranteeing hardware support from Sony? Afterall, it's not like you buy a few hundred PS3 consoles from your local Wally World on short notice.

I'll have to take your word for it there but I'm guessing the Airforce isn't worried too much about the same concerns the rest of the users are having (disabled features, etc.)  considering Sony loves that they can tout this as an example of the PS3's power. 

The Air Force uses OtherOS, which is a disabled feature.  So it's not something Sony can brag about.

That's what I was saying though - you think the Airforce's PS3's have the same restrictions as the off-the-shelf models? 

And even so, Sony doesn't have to be specific about HOW the Airforce is running PS3's, just that they are.  Most people don't know what an OtherOS is anyway.

And this is all moot - I'm not in the Airforce.  I just want to play an online game.  Thank God Steam didn't go down so I can still play TF2.

Removal of OtherOS affects the Airforce as much as anyone else. Just because they don't let their PS3's attach to PSN, there's still the problem of continued support when the hardware dies. Airforce can't buy slims and refurbished units are returned with updated (subsequently removing OtherOS) firmware.

I was incorrect that the Airforce purchased the units directly through Sony, they purchased them through contract with Fixstars.

[Malenko]

Removal of OtherOS affects the Airforce as much as anyone else. Just because they don't let their PS3's attach to PSN, there's still the problem of continued support when the hardware dies. Airforce can't buy slims and refurbished units are returned with updated (subsequently removing OtherOS) firmware.

I was incorrect that the Airforce purchased the units directly through Sony, they purchased them through contract with Fixstars.

That's what I was trying to say but couldn't figure out how to say it, thanks!

[DaveMMR]

Removal of OtherOS affects the Airforce as much as anyone else. Just because they don't let their PS3's attach to PSN, there's still the problem of continued support when the hardware dies. Airforce can't buy slims and refurbished units are returned with updated (subsequently removing OtherOS) firmware.

I was incorrect that the Airforce purchased the units directly through Sony, they purchased them through contract with Fixstars.

Maybe the Airforce should stick to using regular computer hardware instead of video game consoles? 

[Vigo]

Removal of OtherOS affects the Airforce as much as anyone else. Just because they don't let their PS3's attach to PSN, there's still the problem of continued support when the hardware dies. Airforce can't buy slims and refurbished units are returned with updated (subsequently removing OtherOS) firmware.

I was incorrect that the Airforce purchased the units directly through Sony, they purchased them through contract with Fixstars.

Maybe the Airforce should stick to using regular computer hardware instead of video game consoles? 

I remember reading about the Airforce PS3 supercomputer when it came out.....The airforce team opted for PS3's because it would be quite a few thousands less in cost than other hardware options, and met their needs perfectly. It was also a case where they knew the replacements would be readily available for years to come. The airforce had felt slighted since Sony had personally applauded them for using their gaming system to create a supercomputer.

[SavannahLion]

Removal of OtherOS affects the Airforce as much as anyone else. Just because they don't let their PS3's attach to PSN, there's still the problem of continued support when the hardware dies. Airforce can't buy slims and refurbished units are returned with updated (subsequently removing OtherOS) firmware.

I was incorrect that the Airforce purchased the units directly through Sony, they purchased them through contract with Fixstars.

Maybe the Airforce should stick to using regular computer hardware instead of video game consoles? 

I remember reading about the Airforce PS3 supercomputer when it came out.....The airforce team opted for PS3's because it would be quite a few thousands less in cost than other hardware options, and met their needs perfectly. It was also a case where they knew the replacements would be readily available for years to come. The airforce had felt slighted since Sony had personally applauded them for using their gaming system to create a supercomputer.

*EXACTLY*  building a server grade computer (at that time) with that kind of raw horsepower is not cheap. IIRC, the USAF cluster ranks as the 33rd most powerful supercomputer. That's an awful lot of horsepower for not much moola.

Found the Sony marketed PS2 render farm, it was the GSCUBE. Apparently used to render the Ants, a design flaw in the pipeline between the GSCUBE and host PC gave it less than stellar performance numbers.

[CCM]

Removal of OtherOS affects the Airforce as much as anyone else. Just because they don't let their PS3's attach to PSN, there's still the problem of continued support when the hardware dies. Airforce can't buy slims and refurbished units are returned with updated (subsequently removing OtherOS) firmware.

I was incorrect that the Airforce purchased the units directly through Sony, they purchased them through contract with Fixstars.

Maybe the Airforce should stick to using regular computer hardware instead of video game consoles? 

I remember reading about the Airforce PS3 supercomputer when it came out.....The airforce team opted for PS3's because it would be quite a few thousands less in cost than other hardware options, and met their needs perfectly. It was also a case where they knew the replacements would be readily available for years to come. The airforce had felt slighted since Sony had personally applauded them for using their gaming system to create a supercomputer.

*EXACTLY*  building a server grade computer (at that time) with that kind of raw horsepower is not cheap. IIRC, the USAF cluster ranks as the 33rd most powerful supercomputer. That's an awful lot of horsepower for not much moola.

Found the Sony marketed PS2 render farm, it was the GSCUBE. Apparently used to render the Ants, a design flaw in the pipeline between the GSCUBE and host PC gave it less than stellar performance numbers.

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/03/rome_labs_supercomputer_is_mad.html

To custom-build a supercomputer without using commercial off-the-shelf PlayStation 3s would likely have cost 10 times as much, Barnell said. In addition, the Condor uses a fraction of the energy that comparably sized supercomputers use. Portions of it — say 300 machines — can be turned on while the rest are off, depending on a job’s needs.

[SNAAKE]

HERRO!

[DaveMMR]

Excellent.  Does that mean the Airforce can play games online again?

[SavannahLion]

Excellent.  Does that mean the Airforce can play games online again?

 

[versapak]

Excellent.  Does that mean the Airforce can play games online again?

 

Yeah, I gotta agree with that.



DaveMMR, you somehow really got on a big rolling lame in this thread.

[DNA Dan]

What is this welcome back package of CONTENT and services?

[DaveMMR]

Excellent.  Does that mean the Airforce can play games online again?

 

Yeah, I gotta agree with that.



DaveMMR, you somehow really got on a big rolling lame in this thread.

Well sorry I offended you all. I know it's not as gangbusters as some of the "asians sure do talk funny talk" lines in this thread that had all the wit and wisdom of a 1950's Jell-o commercial ("Herro.... ROTFL"? Seriously?) nor was it really ever meant to be. I hope I haven't ruined your experience on this board.

In the future, I will think twice about saying something sarcastic that's not even really a joke but more of a rebellion about how I made a comment about the lack of usefulness of "OtherOS" for most consumers of the PS3 and it turned into a "but the Airforce uses it" derailment to prove otherwise and possibly justify the outrage Sony's customers should harbor. Hasn't convinced me: estimates show that most people with PS3's are actually not using them to power the Airforce and just want to play their games online. Assuming (and at this point, that's all it really is though heavy speculation points in that direction) this outage was caused in response to Sony's removal of the "OtherOS" feature or persecution of George Hotz for exploiting the PS3 to perform similarly, I maintained hackers were fighting a war over stupid reasons for little gain for next-to-no one (USAF branch be damned).  

Instead of saying all that ad naseum, I went with nonsensical little bits of sarcasm that may have been a little childish in hindsight but at least SavannahLion got to whip out his little "lame" graphic.  And Vera, way to springboard off his comment.  You waiting for five pages of comments to make your sole contribution: parroting his line and adding that little extra commentary at the end calling me out for several bad "jokes".  Good job.  Glad you waited for someone else to say it first.
 

Now to rerail this a bit:

What is this welcome back package of CONTENT and services?

They haven't announced much officially besides a free month of service for Playstation Plus and Qriocity. Also there's some talk of the paid MMORPG games (DC Universe Online, etc.) will have the same free month of service credited to current users.  Also, they're offering free credit monitoring for a year for those who want it.  I'm personally hoping for some PSN downloadable titles - couldn't care less about the rest.

Which begs the question: If I take that free PS+ for the month and don't continue, can I keep the free stuff I downloaded for being a temporary member of the premium service?

[DNA Dan]

Which begs the question: If I take that free PS+ for the month and don't continue, can I keep the free stuff I downloaded for being a temporary member of the premium service?

It wouldn't surprise me if you get to use the content for 1 month then it becomes vaporware.

[lilshawn]

[Vigo]

Excellent.  Does that mean the Airforce can play games online again?

 

Yeah, I gotta agree with that.



DaveMMR, you somehow really got on a big rolling lame in this thread.

Well sorry I offended you all. I know it's not as gangbusters as some of the "asians sure do talk funny talk" lines in this thread that had all the wit and wisdom of a 1950's Jell-o commercial ("Herro.... ROTFL"? Seriously?) nor was it really ever meant to be. I hope I haven't ruined your experience on this board.

In the future, I will think twice about saying something sarcastic that's not even really a joke but more of a rebellion about how I made a comment about the lack of usefulness of "OtherOS" for most consumers of the PS3 and it turned into a "but the Airforce uses it" derailment to prove otherwise and possibly justify the outrage Sony's customers should harbor. Hasn't convinced me: estimates show that most people with PS3's are actually not using them to power the Airforce and just want to play their games online. Assuming (and at this point, that's all it really is though heavy speculation points in that direction) this outage was caused in response to Sony's removal of the "OtherOS" feature or persecution of George Hotz for exploiting the PS3 to perform similarly, I maintained hackers were fighting a war over stupid reasons for little gain for next-to-no one (USAF branch be damned).  

Instead of saying all that ad naseum, I went with nonsensical little bits of sarcasm that may have been a little childish in hindsight but at least SavannahLion got to whip out his little "lame" graphic.  And Vera, way to springboard off his comment.  You waiting for five pages of comments to make your sole contribution: parroting his line and adding that little extra commentary at the end calling me out for several bad "jokes".  Good job.  Glad you waited for someone else to say it first.
 

Nobody cares if you think it's a useless feature. Sony marketed and advertised otherOS and Linux support. People paid for the product with that feature as promised. Later Sony took it away. How more simple can it get? It's a classic bait and switch. Sony. Bad. End of Line.

It's like if someone bought a fancy car with an onboard computer system, and when he updated the GPS maps it disabled the car radio. The owner would be mad. From your logic, you would be telling the owner to STFU, because the radio is overrated, and a car is meant to drive, not listen to music, and they probably would have bought the car if it didn't have a radio anyway.


So yeah, we label your comments as .

[DaveMMR]

Excellent.  Does that mean the Airforce can play games online again?

 

Yeah, I gotta agree with that.



DaveMMR, you somehow really got on a big rolling lame in this thread.

Well sorry I offended you all. I know it's not as gangbusters as some of the "asians sure do talk funny talk" lines in this thread that had all the wit and wisdom of a 1950's Jell-o commercial ("Herro.... ROTFL"? Seriously?) nor was it really ever meant to be. I hope I haven't ruined your experience on this board.

In the future, I will think twice about saying something sarcastic that's not even really a joke but more of a rebellion about how I made a comment about the lack of usefulness of "OtherOS" for most consumers of the PS3 and it turned into a "but the Airforce uses it" derailment to prove otherwise and possibly justify the outrage Sony's customers should harbor. Hasn't convinced me: estimates show that most people with PS3's are actually not using them to power the Airforce and just want to play their games online. Assuming (and at this point, that's all it really is though heavy speculation points in that direction) this outage was caused in response to Sony's removal of the "OtherOS" feature or persecution of George Hotz for exploiting the PS3 to perform similarly, I maintained hackers were fighting a war over stupid reasons for little gain for next-to-no one (USAF branch be damned).  

Instead of saying all that ad naseum, I went with nonsensical little bits of sarcasm that may have been a little childish in hindsight but at least SavannahLion got to whip out his little "lame" graphic.  And Vera, way to springboard off his comment.  You waiting for five pages of comments to make your sole contribution: parroting his line and adding that little extra commentary at the end calling me out for several bad "jokes".  Good job.  Glad you waited for someone else to say it first.
 

Nobody cares if you think it's a useless feature. Sony marketed and advertised otherOS and Linux support. People paid for the product with that feature as promised. Later Sony took it away. How more simple can it get? It's a classic bait and switch. Sony. Bad. End of Line.

It's like if someone bought a fancy car with an onboard computer system, and when he updated the GPS maps it disabled the car radio. The owner would be mad. From your logic, you would be telling the owner to STFU, because the radio is overrated, and a car is meant to drive, not listen to music, and they probably would have bought the car if it didn't have a radio anyway.


So yeah, we label your comments as .

I label stupid little graphics in place of intelligent debate as lame.  Disagree with me if you like, but don't be a tool.

Now to address your comparison: a car radio is something most people use in their car; OtherOS was something most people didn't. I don't have hard data to back that up but the basic design of consoles is that of simplicity - i.e. it takes very little technical intelligence to use it as intended, to play games. These ARE NOT people looking to dick around with their investments to see if they can run Linux for whatever reason. I DID do some very unscientific research and asked my friends how they felt about the removal of OtherOS. Out of about ten people, approximately ZERO of them knew what the hell I was talking about.

Okay so now you know I'm concentrating on the average (read: non-technical) consumers. They didn't blink when this ability was taken away. However, they spent weeks without access to their online games quite possibly because a statistically SMALL group of people were miffed about it.  And I admitted that I wasn't even really sure what OtherOS or any other hack did that was significant other than (and I paraphrase myself here) "meh homebrew and copyright infringement" that would work better than a cheap PC.  The only real answer I got was a two-page primer on how the Airforce utilizes it and also that it works well as an inexpensive server. Call me cynical, but I'm guessing the people who were most upset with the loss of OtherOS were not in either camp.

But I'm not being fair.  You can be mad at Sony*. If you used OtherOS legitimately (or hell even illegitimately, who am I to judge), you have a right to be upset. However, you DO NOT have the right to disrupt a large corporation, inconvenience 77 million consumers and expose them to credit fraud because of it. Who's that protecting?  

(*I even remarked in a previous post that Sony was stupid to even advertise such a feature existed. They set themselves up for trouble by doing sp.)

[Vigo]

Excellent.  Does that mean the Airforce can play games online again?

 

Yeah, I gotta agree with that.



DaveMMR, you somehow really got on a big rolling lame in this thread.

Well sorry I offended you all. I know it's not as gangbusters as some of the "asians sure do talk funny talk" lines in this thread that had all the wit and wisdom of a 1950's Jell-o commercial ("Herro.... ROTFL"? Seriously?) nor was it really ever meant to be. I hope I haven't ruined your experience on this board.

In the future, I will think twice about saying something sarcastic that's not even really a joke but more of a rebellion about how I made a comment about the lack of usefulness of "OtherOS" for most consumers of the PS3 and it turned into a "but the Airforce uses it" derailment to prove otherwise and possibly justify the outrage Sony's customers should harbor. Hasn't convinced me: estimates show that most people with PS3's are actually not using them to power the Airforce and just want to play their games online. Assuming (and at this point, that's all it really is though heavy speculation points in that direction) this outage was caused in response to Sony's removal of the "OtherOS" feature or persecution of George Hotz for exploiting the PS3 to perform similarly, I maintained hackers were fighting a war over stupid reasons for little gain for next-to-no one (USAF branch be damned). 

Instead of saying all that ad naseum, I went with nonsensical little bits of sarcasm that may have been a little childish in hindsight but at least SavannahLion got to whip out his little "lame" graphic.  And Vera, way to springboard off his comment.  You waiting for five pages of comments to make your sole contribution: parroting his line and adding that little extra commentary at the end calling me out for several bad "jokes".  Good job.  Glad you waited for someone else to say it first.
 

Nobody cares if you think it's a useless feature. Sony marketed and advertised otherOS and Linux support. People paid for the product with that feature as promised. Later Sony took it away. How more simple can it get? It's a classic bait and switch. Sony. Bad. End of Line.

It's like if someone bought a fancy car with an onboard computer system, and when he updated the GPS maps it disabled the car radio. The owner would be mad. From your logic, you would be telling the owner to STFU, because the radio is overrated, and a car is meant to drive, not listen to music, and they probably would have bought the car if it didn't have a radio anyway.


So yeah, we label your comments as .

I label stupid little graphics in place of intelligent debate as lame.  Disagree with me if you like, but don't be a tool.

Now to address your comparison: a car radio is something most people use in their car; OtherOS was something most people didn't. I don't have hard data to back that up but the basic design of consoles is that of simplicity - i.e. it takes very little technical intelligence to use it as intended, to play games. These ARE NOT people looking to dick around with their investments to see if they can run Linux for whatever reason. I DID do some very unscientific research and asked my friends how they felt about the removal of OtherOS. Out of about ten people, approximately ZERO of them knew what the hell I was talking about.

Okay so now you know I'm concentrating on the average (read: non-technical) consumers. They didn't blink when this ability was taken away. However, they spent weeks without access to their online games quite possibly because a statistically SMALL group of people were miffed about it.  And I admitted that I wasn't even really sure what OtherOS or any other hack did that was significant other than (and I paraphrase myself here) "meh homebrew and copyright infringement" that would work better than a cheap PC.  The only real answer I got was a two-page primer on how the Airforce utilizes it and also that it works well as an inexpensive server. Call me cynical, but I'm guessing the people who were most upset with the loss of OtherOS were not in either camp.

But I'm not being fair.  You can be mad at Sony*. If you used OtherOS legitimately (or hell even illegitimately, who am I to judge), you have a right to be upset. However, you DO NOT have the right to disrupt a large corporation, inconvenience 77 million consumers and expose them to credit fraud because of it. Who's that protecting? 

(*I even remarked in a previous post that Sony was stupid to even advertise such a feature existed. They set themselves up for trouble by doing sp.)

It's a forum...there are stupid little graphics all over it.  If you feel so upset about it that you want to directly insult people for using cheeky graphics, then maybe you might want to take a step back from the debate. Just sayin'.

Now the car thing is still valid, it doesn't matter how "in demand" of a feature we are talking about...and even if it did, you are only applying your view of what you think the common user will use. With a these high end cars that include a CD player, mp3, XML radio and more, the little standard radio would rarely get used. But even if we were talking about a feature that most car users would not use, say the ability to digitally control hydraulics on cars modified with a hydraulic suspension. You would have a number of buyers purchase that car so they can mod their car in to use that feature. Take that away, and I call foul.

I understand that you are more addressing that you personally don't feel it's a big deal, but what Sony did is illegal, even though they have good enough lawyers save their ass, they did really piss off a lot of people. Maybe more on a matter of principal than anything, but it is bad business.

As far as the hacking of PSN goes, I would really say that this has very little to do with it. Any twerps out there wanting to hack PSN in this manner would do it regardless of Sony's business practices. If they are trying to send out a message to the world about Sony, then they did it the wrong way. Didn't hackers used to have a little more panache?

[lilshawn]

[Malenko]

So Dave, its Ok for Sony to pull features but its not Ok to practice Civil Disobedience?

I used OtherOS, granted not to the extent of others but I was pissed it was pulled. Obviously *SOME* people used it or the backlash from removing it would not have happened. Vigo's analogy is SPOT ON. Even if you never listen to the radio, its nice to know its there.

Why do you put the blame of the credit card theft squarely on "the hackers"?  Should Sony protect that particular information a ton better than they did? If I leave my debit card underneath my windshield wiper should I get pissed when someone takes it?

[DNA Dan]

Sony lied plain and simple. This is nothing new to the average informed consumer. If at any time you buy a Sony product without the expectation that it fail prematurely, not work, or not work as advertised, then you're fooling yourself. A lot of companies do this. They sell on the hype, then when sales are low they rehash the hype into something else, a new form factor, a new color, a new package, etc. That's how these ultra large companies work.

I agree with others that no matter how small or big the selling feature, it should be a crime to not deliver on it. They should make a law that if you buy something and it doesn't work as advertised, you are entitled to your money back. See the issue here is that stupid license agreement. I bet somewhere in there is states that Sony reserves the right to change whatever it wants on your PS3 without your consent. In essence the "features" they hype up during sales is not what you're buying, you're just buying hardware with a promise they decide to deliver on the hype. It doesn't make it right though... and I would be pissed if this was a feature I used. I think what Dave is saying is it doesn't justify the damage done to Sony, because ultimately it hurts consumers more than Sony. There's two issues here: 1) Sony pulling out of features it used to sell the console and 2) Does that justify what happened to them (Or basically the average consumer.)

I agree Sony needs a good ass smacking, but not at the consumer's expense. I am vulnerable to identity theft now just because some stupid hackers lacked the cajones to use a suicide bomber on Sony headquarters. The internet has made us all so lazy.  

[Mikezilla]

Well, the thing that I dont understand, is why everyone is so pissed. I get the whole possible identity theft thing, and that sony knew thier protection was sub par, but regarding loss of service, the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- is free. Why is everyone so mad? If you do pay for the PSN+ they are compensating you a month anyway. I wasnt upset that I couldnt play my PS3 online for awhile, whats the big deal anyway? The odds of your stuff getting stolen are nil, and honestly, if you use your credit card, you are asking for a pain in the ass down the road cause this kind of stuff happens all the time. Not exactly to the big companies, but thats because they normally take the proper measures to make sure stuff like this doesnt happen. Thats where Sony is stupid. They didnt want to shell out the money to make sure their defenses wouldnt be compromised, and now they are paying for it.

[Malenko]

Someone needs to go consult a dictionary and read up on what civil disobedience means.

The hacking was done by professional criminals, not neckbeards pissed about OtherOS.

Any cluster the Air Force was running on PS3s had more to do with recruiting than it did actual utility.

troll bait taken, +5 XP

I looked it up, and I'm sure I used it in context.
Civil disobedience is the active, professed refusal to obey certain laws, demands, and commands of a government, or of an occupying international power. Civil disobedience is commonly, though not always, defined as being nonviolent resistance. It is one form of civil resistance.

Now your turn to look up reading comprehension. I said the DDoS was CD, not stealing 100 million credit card numbers.

[DaveMMR]

First off Vigo, I was not implying you are a tool.  But I'm not big on the using of emoticons in place of (instead of enhancing) disagreement, thoughts or opinions - to which I called "toolish behavoir".  I sincerely apologize if it was taken that way.

Secondly, Malenko, this is not a case of "civil disobedience":

Electronic civil disobedience can include web site defacements, redirects, denial-of-service attacks, information theft, illegal web site parodies, virtual sit-ins, and virtual sabotage. It is distinct from other kinds of hacktivism in that the perpetrator openly reveals his identity.

 And let's not compare protest over unjust laws or government practices with a video game console losing minor functionality.

Finally, I decided to rethink the OtherOS-to-car radio analogy.  I'll run with it.  So if your car radio is disabled by that new GPS you install, it begs the question: Why are you installing that GPS?  Okay, so you HAVE to (car maker requiring it)?  Then why do you still have that car?  Why not go with a different car that isn't at stringent with its requirements as to third-tiered features? And finally, why are you buying your cars based solely on the radio?  Read: Did any of you buy a PS3 solely because of it's OtherOS feature?

But let me reiterate that I do agree people have a reason to be upset about removal of any feature originally advertised.  You probably agreed that Sony can and will be allowed to remove any feature they see fit for any reason when you agreed to their terms of service (so I'm thinking "not illegal").  But I'm just a gamer and I just don't see why the removal of this feature is cause for mass hysteria (or hacking Sony's servers - assuming that was the motivation).  The PS3 still plays my games just fine.  I understand that if I want to hang out in Sony's house, I have to abide by their rules, like it or lump it.  Otherwise, I can just take my money elsewhere.

BTW: I'm fully convinced Sony just boned everything up in Generation Seven's efforts. Everything they tried to do "differently" either caused problems in the long run and/or blew up in their face. We would not be having this discussion if they just made a game system instead of a "supercomputer that plays games".  And maybe this whole ordeal was a good thing (as one such article pointed out) - it humbled Sony a bit.  Maybe they'll dial back the "features" for the PS4 and concentrate on simply providing home entertainment instead.

[Vigo]

First off Vigo, I was not implying you are a tool.  But I'm not big on the using of emoticons in place of (instead of enhancing) disagreement, thoughts or opinions - to which I called "toolish behavoir".  I sincerely apologize if it was taken that way.

Thank you.

Finally, I decided to rethink the OtherOS-to-car radio analogy.  I'll run with it.  So if your car radio is disabled by that new GPS you install, it begs the question: Why are you installing that GPS?  Okay, so you HAVE to (car maker requiring it)?  Then why do you still have that car?  Why not go with a different car that isn't at stringent with its requirements as to third-tiered features? And finally, why are you buying your cars based solely on the radio?  Read: Did any of you buy a PS3 solely because of it's OtherOS feature?

I'll answer your questions in analogy form.

Why are you installing that GPS? 

Your car came with the GPS as part of the Nav computer. You are merely updating the maps on the Nav so you can get around. Outdated maps mean that it won't function like it was meant to.

Okay, so you HAVE to (car maker requiring it)?  Then why do you still have that car?

You don't have to, but with your Nav system, all updates are bundled together. And to use other features such as your Onstar system and satelite networking, you need to do an all around update. You can either choose between sacrificing the radio, or not using any features that require regular updates, which is aa ton of them. And chances are, you updated your Nav system without even knowing that it was going to disable your radio.

Why not go with a different car that isn't at stringent with its requirements as to third-tiered features?

You bought the car before they decided to do this. Since your car cost a ton of money can you cannot get good resale value, you are stuck with this particular car.

And finally, why are you buying your cars based solely on the radio?  Read: Did any of you buy a PS3 solely because of it's OtherOS feature?

You didn't buy solely based on the radio. You looked over all the features and decided to go with this car. You PAID for the radio, as it was included in the features your car was priced for.

[Malenko]

Secondly, Malenko, this is not a case of "civil disobedience":

Electronic civil disobedience can include web site defacements, redirects, denial-of-service attacks, information theft, illegal web site parodies, virtual sit-ins, and virtual sabotage. It is distinct from other kinds of hacktivism in that the perpetrator openly reveals his identity.

  And let's not compare protest over unjust laws or government practices with a video game console losing minor functionality.

How is it not?

Electronic civil disobedience can include web site defacements, redirects, denial-of-service attacks, information theft, illegal web site parodies, virtual sit-ins, and virtual sabotage. It is distinct from other kinds of hacktivism in that the perpetrator openly reveals his identity.

Anonymous did a denial-of-service attack. The group does what they do and hid who they are as individuals but never who they are as a group. I wont argue semantics, it is an act of civil disobedience.   Unjust laws, government practices, unjust law breaking, why shouldnt we protest?

[DaveMMR]

How is it not?

Electronic civil disobedience can include web site defacements, redirects, denial-of-service attacks, information theft, illegal web site parodies, virtual sit-ins, and virtual sabotage. It is distinct from other kinds of hacktivism in that the perpetrator openly reveals his identity.

Anonymous did a denial-of-service attack. The group does what they do and hid who they are as individuals but never who they are as a group. I wont argue semantics, it is an act of civil disobedience.   Unjust laws, government practices, unjust law breaking, why shouldnt we protest?

I'm referring to the attack on Sony's server which appears to be more than a mere DOS attack.  Anonymous officially denied responsibility.  Also this attack was hardly victimless; it affected 77 million people.  Also, do you want to be comparing the work of civil rights leaders with over-reaction to strong customer dissatisfaction over was is technically a luxury item?

As for the car radio analogy again (too much to quote), assuming all that happened and the radio was rendered useless, there would be bad publicity for the car company and amends would need to be made - because everyone would notice.   There was minimal outcry (based on number of users) over OtherOS because only the most hardcore noticed.  That's why, I believe, it's not a fair comparison.

Again, still ---smurfy--- on Sony's part.   But I feel this is being more of a controversy than it needs to be.

[Vigo]

It might be of interest (but little surprise) that Sony has a Better Business Bureau rating of F. Meanwhile Nintendo and Microsoft are sitting with an A+.

And it looks like Sony was an F for quite a while as well. At least a year now.

[DaveMMR]

It might be of interest (but little surprise) that Sony has a Better Business Bureau rating of F. Meanwhile Nintendo and Microsoft are sitting with an A+.

And it looks like Sony was an F for quite a while as well. At least a year now.

Oh, absolutely no surprise here - as I said they completely dropped the ball and sucked hard this generation.  I'm only a customer because they fulfill my immediate entertainment needs and that's all I ask from them.  But removing features without adequate explanation, keeping people in the dark about the outage when it affect credit card information and their general cockiness in the beginning was all just terrible.  Granted, I'm arguing about OtherOS being an unimportant feature in the grand scheme of things (there are bigger fish to fry in this universe) - but I am also not defending Sony for their decision either.

Meanwhile, Japan isn't even letting them reconnect PSN in their country.
http://techland.time.com/2011/05/16/japan-not-letting-sony-bring-playstation-back-online-in-its-home-country/

[Malenko]

I'm referring to the attack on Sony's server which appears to be more than a mere DOS attack.

You DO know there was more then 1 attack on Sony right? Please tell me you knew that.  Ok, now that you do know that now, can you apply everything I said to the DDoS attack anonymous did and not to the credit card theft someone else did?

[DaveMMR]

I'm referring to the attack on Sony's server which appears to be more than a mere DOS attack.

You DO know there was more then 1 attack on Sony right? Please tell me you knew that.  Ok, now that you do know that now, can you apply everything I said to the DDoS attack anonymous did and not to the credit card theft someone else did?

Yes I do know that Anonymous conducted a DDoS attack separate but was not aware you referring to that specific attack.  All the same, still hate referring to it as "civil disobedience" but I'll concede if that's what you're referring to.

[hypernova]

I had read about them restoring services over the weekend.

And when they did, about 10 minutes later, it all crashed again, due to "heavy traffic".

Problem, Sony?  You have about the same number of customers (actually, probably less) on your network than you did before disabling the network, but you couldn't handle the volume?

Apparently they can handle it now.

[SNAAKE]

do I still need a credit card # for the "welcome back package"? dont feel safe yo...

[Samstag]

I had read about them restoring services over the weekend.

And when they did, about 10 minutes later, it all crashed again, due to "heavy traffic".

Problem, Sony?  You have about the same number of customers (actually, probably less) on your network than you did before disabling the network, but you couldn't handle the volume?

Apparently they can handle it now.

The new advanced security system was a guy named Larry who had to approve every new connection on a case-by-case basis.

[CCM]

Two free games when the store comes back online...


http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2932915

[HaRuMaN]

Also today Sony said PSN customers will get to choose a free video game to download. PS3 owners can choose from a list that includes Dead Nation, inFAMOUS, LittleBigPlanet, Super Stardust HD, and Wipeout HD + Fury, all titles that would normally cost between $10 and $20. PSP owners can choose one free game from among LittleBigPlanet (PSP), ModNation Racers, Pursuit Force, and Killzone Liberation. The offer lasts for 30 days once the PlayStation Store returns, but once downloaded the game can be kept forever.

Read more: http://news.cnet.com/8301-31021_3-20063251-260.html#ixzz1McamIaT0

[Dartful Dodger]

I've been wanting to pick up inFAMOUS for a while, but none of the other games interest me.

Also

How does the PSN work. Can PSP gamers play against PS3 gamers?

A buddy of mine has the PSP, if he got ModNation for the PSP would he be able to race against me playing the PS3?

[Mikezilla]

I already beat inFAMOUS, but what about that Dead Nation game? Is it a zombie game?!