Re: I am now a blackbelt!

[ammitz]

If I were to do the same type of energy release from a full-draw-back-punch, I just might break my hand... and surely would take a life.

Sure.......

 

[RobbyMac]

I am fascinated by the mechanics of a 3" power punch

[HaRuMaN]

I am fascinated by the mechanics of a 3" power punch

That's what she said.  Wot?

[RobbyMac]

I've tried and tried but thus far all I can breakthrough with my 3" power punch is a forum screen.
<--- Avatar Howard the Duck showing off his 3" power punch

[pmowry]

I am fascinated by the mechanics of a 3" power punch

That's what she said.  Wot?

1st Off Congrats, and best wishes on the healing process  But to further hijack a thread.....

[hypernova]

End of B lunch?  What the hell kind of detention is that?  That doesn't take away any of your free time!  After-school detention is far more sucky to sit through.  B lunch detention is just lame.

I assume you got quite a bit of laughter, right?

[pmowry]

It's not for me. I read it someplace else just this morning and thought it was funny. Then alittle later I read the same comment in this thread and felt they belonged together

[Xiaou2]

 I once had a Jeet Kun Do guy order at the place I was working at.   (He had a
bright yellow uniform with logo)    At that time, I already long since taught myself,
and developed "Inch Power" to a good level...  But, I was curious to see how well
he could do it.

 I politely asked if he knew the 1" punch: 

   Yes.   

 Can you show it to me?

   Sure.

 He then asks me to grab a phone book.   I go into the back, and pull out a 4"
thick phone book, and return.

 He asks me to place it directly in front of my chest. (no gap)   I do so.

 He makes a fist, but then extends the pointer fingers knuckle so that its 1" further
out than the rest of the knuckles surface...  And then places the extended knuckle
"gauge" on the book.   

 I keep a very close eye on him.  How he is positioned.  And am prepared to look
for any trickery that some people often use when demoing this stuff.  Most people
do it all wrong, and merely Push rather than make it a powerful strike.  Many people
even Pull their fist back before they start.  Its very easy to see this happen... and so Im
staring at the arm - checking the movement direction as its happening...

 All the sudden, he "Twitches".  "BAM",  he hit me with the force of a cannonball at
speed!... Yet, I barely moved back.  All the force was concentrated Inside me.
I also noticed that he didnt move his fist/arm back before the start.

 I was a pretty hardened artist at that time, and so could take a heavy punch without
issue or much pain at all.  But this punch was Devastating!  My entire chest area:
About 1ft diameter circle...  felt as if it was lit on FIRE.   I was shocked at how much
stronger his power level was than mine... and how much damage it did.

 His face looked a little disgruntled, as he prepared for a 2nd attempt.  I started to
realize... that he was dis-satisfied with his first strikes power level, and felt he could
do better on another attempt!   I was shocked...  and as much as I was curious to
know.. I quickly stepped back and told him one was good.   I knew my body couldnt
take another hit like that again.

 My chest was in severe pains, for a punch of 1" distance - thru a 4" phone book.
I thought it might fade away in a few minutes time.  An hour passes.. and its still
as bad as ever.  4 hours later... it finally starts to subside.   I was seriously
contemplating going to the emergency center... as I thought he had done some
extreme internal damage to something in me.

 Had no phone book been used, and he had more room than 1"... I would not have
survived it.

 I had asked him before he left, what he did to make his punch so strong.  He listed
many various techniques Lee used to use, as well as simply things like Tiger Pushups.
I was a little lazy about strength training when I trained...  He however,
trained his strength and explosive levels much more intensly... and it surly showed.

 What is amazing, is that this man is nothing like  Chen Xiaowang:  A master of
a Chinese Tai Chi system.  Ive heard Chen Xiaowang did a demo once, where he
was resting against a person (Zero-Inch), twitched... and the guys ribs cracked.

 Inch power is very real, and much more scary than you can imagine.  However,
its not something that anyone can just pick up over the course of a few days.
It took me maybe a 6 month period to develop it to KO level power... and that
was on top of my already maximized Wing Chun punch which had maybe 3yrs
worth of experience/training.

 The Wing Chun punch uses the same technique of Fajin to generate
massive power in less distance.  However, most of the WC guys never dial
in the power to extreme levels.  (A sharp knife... but not razor sharp)

[shmokes]

LMAO.  Xiaou . . . this is irresponsible.  It's too much.  You're going to give me a heart attack.   

[Vanguard]

You're going to give me a heart attack.   

That would be the 0" punch.

[atomikbohm]

I think I found Xiaou2's website check it out ...

http://www.realultimatepower.net/ 

[shmokes]

I think I found Xiaou2's website check it out ...

http://www.realultimatepower.net/ 

That is possibly the greatest essay I have ever read.  Seriously.

[Vanguard]

My wife teaches 4Th grade and gets papers handed in like this.   On one hand its really funny but on the hand its really disturbing.

[RobbyMac]

0"!!!!
Nothing could be better than a 0" punch... except maybe a -1" pull?

[atomikbohm]

Seriously, we all get it xiaou2, you are one bad motor scooter, regardless the length of your punch 6,3, or 1" (so trying to be good here) you know many things that the rest of us mere mortals will never understand.  But that's not that what this thread is about.

Congrats on your perseverance and accomplishment Saint.   ... and tough break on the foot (sorry, I just couldn't help my self)  
Heal quick and well.

[CheffoJeffo]

Seriously, we all get it xiaou2, you are one bad motor scooter

We SOOOO need to the QOTD mod running here ...

 

 

 

 

 

[Xiaou2]

The posts were not to brag.  I dont need anyone elses praise, nor do I seek it.

 The post, is to spread the higher truths of the arts, that many have yet
to discover.

 Fajin is an amazing technology.  One of the most dangerous technologies. The product
of thousands of years worth of martial arts developments in China.

 Anyone with 20 min of research will find plenty of knowledge about it.

 Bruce Lee had somehow learned it, and got it down to a pretty high level of
usage.   You can find quotes from artists who had the pleasure of
getting hit by it.

 There are also plenty of artists who can preform the technique live, should you
be willing enough to take the hit.

 Sadly, there are cons out there, as well as plenty who do not fully understand it,
and perform it incorrectly.

 Fajin cant really be Seen.. just like electric current cant be seen.  It must be felt
to be realized.  You can however spot it by the way the persons body moves.
Looks like a fully body vibrational / shaking.  This shows full body unification - which
means, the entire bodys mass is all connected and acting together at that moment in
time.

 Bruce Lee had managed to learn it.. and often did a demo using it.
Knowing the audience couldnt see Fajin, he mostly did more of a 'push' version
of it...which sent a person flying back into a chair, which then slid back many feet. 
The real version, wont move a person back much, if at all.  If the person moves back,
it means you were unsuccessful in releasing all the energy all at once... and it was more
spread out over larger time units... thus accelerating the person/target backwards.

 There are plenty of people trying to "bury" such technology, as they are fearful if the
masses have this power.

 It would be a shame, if such things were long lost forever merely due to fear.
Its time to spread the real truth of combat.  Rediscover and revive the lost arts.
Combat science is not about violence.  Its meant to stop violence.

[shmokes]

If the person moves back,
it means you were unsuccessful in releasing all the energy all at once... and it was more
spread out over larger time units... thus accelerating the person/target backwards.

I'm not . . . sure . . . that's . . . how physics works.

What about levitation, what's your take?  Or standing weightlessly on a sword, a la kung fu master in Kill Bill?

[Hoopz]

If the person moves back,
it means you were unsuccessful in releasing all the energy all at once... and it was more
spread out over larger time units... thus accelerating the person/target backwards.

I'm not . . . sure . . . that's . . . how physics works.

What about levitation, what's your take?  Or standing weightlessly on a sword, a la kung fu master in Kill Bill?

shmokes = the spoon.  Always stirring things up.  Even if someone Ex-lax doesn't get it.   

[atomikbohm]

Xiaou2 I'm glad that you have found something to focus your attentions on and are confident in yourself.  Both are crucial elements in any successful person.  Can we please move on before this turns ugly?  

I wouldn't want you to flip out and kill an entire town cause someone dropped a spoon  
http://www.realultimatepower.net/

I'm trying to keep this light and fun for all so please lets stop before some one gets hurt.
http://www.realultimatepower.net/ninja/seppuku.htm
Dude!!! Just put down the Frisbee and step back, please



 

[Xiaou2]

I'm not . . . sure . . . that's . . . how physics works.

 Leave it to a future lawyer to not be able to understand the meaning.

  The difference between a punch and a push, is the amount of energy released in
a certain time unit.   You can for example, create a fast push... but, it will still be a
dull push.

 Many punch like a push.  They strike the target, but not with full body mass
connected "all at once".  Thus, the force is dull and reduced.  It becomes more of a
stream of energy... rather than an instant grenade 'explosion' of power.

 The stream of energy, still carries power.  But not nearly as much power as
it would have been had it been fully concentrated at delivery impact.

 The moment of solid impact is where all the damages take place.   After that moment,
the body is merely accelerated backwards.  Even a split second into impact, the punchers
fist is slowing down to less than half its original speed, as its coming up against the
resistance of the mass of the opposing target...   and as the impact is done, damage
transfered... the body is simply connected to the fist and nothing further is done.

 The corrected description would be:

    If the target is pushed back more than a foot of distance, it shows the lack
of concentrated energy needed for a Fajin strike.

 My body at age 23 was 150 lbs.  Have you ever been struck in the head by a
155 lb mass moving at over 50mph?    I assume you, that it would take far less to
knock a person out, let alone take their lives away.   With proper Fajin, a woman
of even 80lbs is far more dangerous than most men 4 times her mass.

 Its very simple, that most fighters can not get anywhere near their full mass into
their strikes.  This is mostly due to a process of fine timings and articulations.  Basically
speaking... its like they are sending a stream of water down a hose to put out a fire...
but the hose is filled with holes, and is leaking out everywhere.  By the time it comes
out, the water pressure is reduced to a fraction of its original pressure.

   

[Xiaou2]

A simplified explanation of Fajin, could be something like Bumper Cars.

 When you are colliding with a car, and you want to really spin them around,
at impact you quickly lurch your body mass forwards.   This Adds force to the impact.

 In a typical punch, most people have the person in the car already forwards, and
so at impact, nothing else can be done.   (OR, their person in the car is either loose, or
rigidly stuck in the back seat even as impact takes place.)

[shmokes]

    If the target is pushed back more than a foot of distance, it shows the lack
of concentrated energy needed for a Fajin strike.

I'm not . . . sure . . . that's . . . how physics works.

[Howard_Casto]

    If the target is pushed back more than a foot of distance, it shows the lack
of concentrated energy needed for a Fajin strike.

I'm not . . . sure . . . that's . . . how physics works.

Sure it is... force is dependant upon both mass, and acceleration, or as he put it "unit of time". 

HOWEVER...  the problem he's ignoring is it takes a great deal of energy to get your limbs moving at that speed.  So much energy that you'd have to be the size of a tank to do it properly which negates the whole "80 lbs woman can do it" argument.  Physics works both ways friends, it takes at least as much energy to put an object in motion from a stopped point as it expells when it collides with a stationary object.  While you can certainly make your punch more efficient and therefore have it hit harder by proper form and execution, you can't reach near superhuman levels just by "focus" alone.

The problem with most martial arts is they are very much a science of physics, BUT they are also steeped in thousands of years of religious mumbo-jumbo like "chi" and "focus" and don't forget "force".  But since that is such a small part of it people often deem it to be science as well since everything else they learned so so rooted in the science of motion. 


That being said, the body is quite capable of "super human" feats, but this is more of a glandular thing (adrenaline and what-not).  The physics gets balnaced out with your body being torn up from over use.  And of course your body was always capable of such  feats so it really wasn't super human.  You were just held back by silly little things like pain and slef-preservation.  I'm sure you could rip your own arm off as well, but I wouldn't reccomend it. 

Ever seen Full Metal Alchemist?  All physics questions can be directed towards that show.  It's all about equivelent exchange guys.

[danny_galaga]

The posts were not to brag.  I dont need anyone elses praise, nor do I seek it.

 The post, is to spread the higher truths of the arts, that many have yet
to discover.

 Fajin is an amazing technology.  One of the most dangerous technologies. The product
of thousands of years worth of martial arts developments in China.

 Anyone with 20 min of research will find plenty of knowledge about it.

 Bruce Lee had somehow learned it, and got it down to a pretty high level of
usage.   You can find quotes from artists who had the pleasure of
getting hit by it.

 There are also plenty of artists who can preform the technique live, should you
be willing enough to take the hit.

 Sadly, there are cons out there, as well as plenty who do not fully understand it,
and perform it incorrectly.

 Fajin cant really be Seen.. just like electric current cant be seen.  It must be felt
to be realized.  You can however spot it by the way the persons body moves.
Looks like a fully body vibrational / shaking.  This shows full body unification - which
means, the entire bodys mass is all connected and acting together at that moment in
time.

 Bruce Lee had managed to learn it.. and often did a demo using it.
Knowing the audience couldnt see Fajin, he mostly did more of a 'push' version
of it...which sent a person flying back into a chair, which then slid back many feet. 
The real version, wont move a person back much, if at all.  If the person moves back,
it means you were unsuccessful in releasing all the energy all at once... and it was more
spread out over larger time units... thus accelerating the person/target backwards.

 There are plenty of people trying to "bury" such technology, as they are fearful if the
masses have this power.

 It would be a shame, if such things were long lost forever merely due to fear.
Its time to spread the real truth of combat.  Rediscover and revive the lost arts.
Combat science is not about violence.  Its meant to stop violence.

Boxer Rebellion. The ultimate pirates vs ninja show dao n. Guess who won 

[Xiaou2]

HOWEVER...  the problem he's ignoring is it takes a great deal of energy to get your limbs moving at that speed.  So much energy that you'd have to be the size of a tank to do it properly which negates the whole "80 lbs woman can do it" argument.

 - This is only so, IF you are using the frequently taught approach.

 For example...

 1) Tighten all your arm muscles up,  and then try to punch a target
as fast as you can.

 2) Relax all your muscles.  Now repeat the process... and only tighten your muscles
when you fist touches the target.

 The results, are that the loose muscles will accelerate Much faster.   Maybe 3x faster.

 Many people when punching, start out tightening their muscles well before they
are at target impact.  This is like putting the brake on, while hitting the gas.
The Bicepts Pull.  The Triceps push.  You only need the push muscles partially "ON"
to get the arm to rocket forwards.  Yet if you turn on the Pull muscle as well... it
will slow your punch considerably.

 Yet, when you hit the target, you want to tighten BOTH, to create that firm structure
which allows force to conduct thru without losses from flexing.

 

Physics works both ways friends, it takes at least as much energy to put an object in motion from a stopped point as it expells when it collides with a stationary object.  While you can certainly make your punch more efficient and therefore have it hit harder by proper form and execution, you can't reach near superhuman levels just by "focus" alone.

 - Mental Focus was never mentioned nor inferred.  While its partially true you need
ability to be aware of, and in control of many areas precisely... as said, focus alone
is not causing the power.

 - Also, its not Superhuman.  It IS Human force.  Its merely pictured as Superhuman,
because most humans do not practice it, let alone understand it.

The problem with most martial arts is they are very much a science of physics, BUT they are also steeped in thousands of years of religious mumbo-jumbo like "chi" and "focus" and don't forget "force".  But since that is such a small part of it people often deem it to be science as well since everything else they learned so so rooted in the science of motion.

 - Actually, there is insane amount of science in the Chinese arts.  However, its
rarely discussed so openly.  Its generally spoke of in mystical terms to confuse,
and retain a certain level of secrecy to those who are not "in the know".

 - Chinese arts also at times like to be Poetic in descriptions.  As said, a concept like
Chi, is vastly misunderstood.

The physics gets balnaced out with your body being torn up from over use.  

 Actually, Id be interested to know What things you think tear up the body.
As for example, I have no damages to my fist or feet, even though I regularly
punched & kicked solid concrete and steel.

 Ive litterally punched and kicked solid targets in the Thousands.  Its been
over 10 yrs, and still no sign of damages.

 While Im not saying there are may be nothing that could cause damages... Its
usually just people doing something wrong in their training.

You were just held back by silly little things like pain and slef-preservation.  I'm sure you could rip your own arm off as well, but I wouldn't reccomend it.

 Pain as most people know it.. just about disappears in only a short time in the
arts.   The tissues & bones densify.  Things that would put the normal
"marshmallow-body" into the hospital, and or in severe agony... are nearly painless,
and cause no real damages.

Ever seen Full Metal Alchemist?  All physics questions can be directed towards that show.  It's all about equivelent exchange guys. Wink

 Im not much into Animae.  Nor into phony BS such as those idiots who tell people they
can use their mental Force to stop an attacker.   I rely on real physical tactics that
work, and have been tested very well, against aggressive attackers, by myself
personally.

 I can tell you that the Scientific community barely understand the capabilities of
the human body... and even with the highest tech sensors, cant quite grasp all the
details.   One can clearly see this when watching a show like  Human Weapon
(as well as Fight Science, and related shows) ... where they are constantly getting
data and information wrong.  

 Im no scientist... All I can do is best describe the things felt.  As well as to personally
Show by physical demonstration... much like has been done for thousands of years.

 
 The power  comes from the last moment of the strike, when the fist has just
struck in deep enough to compact all the tissue...   Then the striker convulses his
entire bodies muscles/tissue in a forwards vector.  The INSTANT split-second unification
of an 80lb woman, is far more than enough power to take a life.  Ever take an 80 lb
sledge hammer to your head?  Remember, that on top of an already fast moving
fist (40 feet per sec) , you are adding that 80lbs in a split second by means of
a twitch.  The SPEED of a muscular Twitch, might be the equivalent of 200mph.
That factor means that in a time unit of maybe a 100th of a second, 80 lbs of force
was dumped - which is then amplified by its already current 35+mph speed of the
fist+the bodys sudden lurch forwards+additional force if a person is Moving INTO
your strike.

 If you looked hard enough, you could probably find someone who took a baseball
bat to the head, and still survived.  However, how much energy per split second
was delivered with that strike?   A 1000 lbs  in a second might sound bad... but its
nothing compared to 1000 lbs in 100th of a second.

 Why is that?

 Quite simply, because the object you are hitting will immediately disperse forces
you impart upon it.   The slower the force dump, the more time is allowed for that
body to absorb and release the energy.

 However...  If you put so much energy into so little of a time unit... the material
you are striking has little to no ability to absorb it without it tearing apart.  You
can thus cause enough power to rupture tissue, blood vessels, etc.  You can
cause concussions and permanent brain damages... and of course, complete organ
destruction/failure.


 A very simple example can be seen with water.   If you lay your hand slowly into
it... it will move around your hand easily.  Yet, if you slap it fast, it will become solid, and
sting your hand.  

 Water does not damage, so its not quite like a flesh target.  But things like blood
vessels/vains.. which carry liquid, can react quite similarly.  The blood will not compress,
and so the tissue which carries it will pressurize.  If there is sufficient pressure, it will
tear or burst.   If a blood clot forms, it can cause major problems.

 While I have no experience with this...  Ive heard that there are some arts which
have very detailed understanding of human anatomy... and when attacking, will
target several key areas in rapid succession.   This pattern, may cause the persons
body to lock up, (adrenal? pain overload: brain shuts down functions?) clot in areas, bloodflow then stopping or re-routing... and or bursting. One is called Dim Mak...
but I doubt anyone who knows it for real, exists anymore... and would not teach it
to merely anyone.  Anyone who says they know it openly, is more than likely a fraud.

 I probably never would have believed it even possible... Had I not learned, developed,
and felt the true power of Fajin.  Its power levels are unlike anything you can imagine.

 And, I probably wouldnt have believed the power of Fajin...until I started to hear
the stories from people Lee had struck.  Lee was all about real combat training, and
didnt mess around... So, his words are taken far more seriously/credibly than that of
anyone else.

[Xiaou2]

Here is a little clip which contains a small example of some things discussed.



 Important: Turn up the Volume before viewing.

 At time mark  1:26  the man starts to punch in a kinda typical way.  You can
see at times that his body is not really all that sync'd up.. and so losses are evident.

 At 1:34,  he does a  Wing Chun style 'relaxed' fajin vertical punch.  You can see at the
moment of impact, how it effects the target guy.  He is shocked,  does not move as
much from the blows... but because of the power, is in so much pain that he verbally
Yelps and doubles down and away.

 You can hear the impact sounds as well.  The Fajin impact is twice as loud and vivid..
and you can see that the striker is barely even trying hard.  Slow to start strike, and
only partial power released.

[shmokes]

    If the target is pushed back more than a foot of distance, it shows the lack
of concentrated energy needed for a Fajin strike.

I'm not . . . sure . . . that's . . . how physics works.

Sure it is... force is dependant upon both mass, and acceleration, or as he put it "unit of time". 

You'll have to explain that one for me.  This is what Xiaou said, emphasis mine:

"If the target is pushed back more than a foot of distance, it shows the lack
of concentrated energy needed for a Fajin strike."

I gotta say . . . I'm not . . . sure . . . that's . . . how physics works.

[northerngames]

[ammitz]

    If the target is pushed back more than a foot of distance, it shows the lack
of concentrated energy needed for a Fajin strike.

I'm not . . . sure . . . that's . . . how physics works.

Sure it is... force is dependant upon both mass, and acceleration, or as he put it "unit of time". 

You'll have to explain that one for me.  This is what Xiaou said, emphasis mine:

"If the target is pushed back more than a foot of distance, it shows the lack
of concentrated energy needed for a Fajin strike."

I gotta say . . . I'm not . . . sure . . . that's . . . how physics works.

But you forget, this i fajin physics 

[Xiaou2]

No.  Its the physics of the human body structure.

  A pool ball hitting another pool ball will cause the hit ball to rocket around the table.

 Yet, a human is Not a pool ball.   Humans are made up of squishy materials which
absorb forces very well, without displaying even a fraction of the kinetic exchange
of solid pool balls.   Humans also resist impacts, and can re-route energies in different
ways - so as to reduce potentials.

 If I hit the chest, the bones will flex, tissue and air cavities compress...etc.
I can hit a short depth of only 2 or 3 inches of compression, and upon that depth,
add all my mass in that instant - like a bomb.   The guy isnt going to rocket
backwards 15 feet.  In fact, If done correctly, he will barely move 6".  
I dont have to push Past that depth.. as that serves no purpose.  I stop at the point
where their structure is fully compressed, so can absorb no more... thus damages are
maximized when full energy is dropped.

 And yeah, in addtion to a room full of other training devices...
I have a  $300  Real Leather  6ft tall pro heavy bag.   Ive trained extensively
with All types of striking, including traditional, boxing, etc.  I CAN and Have pushed
through a target/human.  However, that is far weaker than the power of the Fajin
strike, where all the energy is expelled instantly, rather than weakly over longer time
units.  I dont preach such serious things without personal verification.


 I always find it hilariously funny when some so called physics experts chime in, who
have absolutely No understanding of how forces work inside the human body.
That and or some gushy marshmallow man who has never hit anything in his entire life.


 So yeah, umm...  Your Concept of physics is Flawed,
thus, you are wrong.  Im sorry if that hurts your Egos.

[Ed_McCarron]

Ooh, that reminds me.  I have a bag of marshmallows in the closet.  In this case, F=ma really means Feeding ---my bottom---.

[northerngames]

 Yeah was'nt it steven seagull that did the forehead punch with a pool ball when he was above the law?

 You know he can do all that riff raff and never get his hair tangled either.

 He even has been highly trained how to roll down a steep dirt hill stand up wipe himself off once and his suit still manages to look like it came right out of the dry cleaners amazing.

[polaris]

No.  Its the physics of the human body structure.

  A pool ball hitting another pool ball will cause the hit ball to rocket around the table.


 So yeah, umm...  Your Concept of physics is Flawed,
thus, you are wrong.  Im sorry if that hurts your Egos.

the two poolballs are the same mass you idiot, your hand doesn't have the same mass as a whole human body. if you hit a body with a whole other body at speed the target body would not absorb the impact it would move like the pool ball, for ---smurfs--- sake do you never get bored of being wrong

[shmokes]

 I always find it hilariously funny when some so called physics experts chime in

The more force you hit someone with, the less proportionally that can be absorbed by our squishiness, the more the person will be forced backward.  I'm no physics expert, Xiaou.  I'm just really really smart.  I figured that out all by myself. 

Imagine, for a moment, what happens when a person is shot with a gun.  Something tells me you are not capable of punching someone with more force in a smaller area than what a high powered rifle can do with a bullet. 

[Hoopz]

No.  Its the physics of the human body structure.

  A pool ball hitting another pool ball will cause the hit ball to rocket around the table.


 So yeah, umm...  Your Concept of physics is Flawed,
thus, you are wrong.  Im sorry if that hurts your Egos.

the two poolballs are the same mass you idiot, your hand doesn't have the same mass as a whole human body. if you hit a body with a whole other body at speed the target body would not absorb the impact it would move like the pool ball, for ---smurfs--- sake do you never get bored of being wrong

Now that's some funny stuff.   

[Xiaou2]

The more force you hit someone with, the less proportionally that can be absorbed by our squishiness, the more the person will be forced backward.  I'm no physics expert, Xiaou.  I'm just really really smart.  I figured that out all by myself.

 To what end?

   In what point does a punches damage turn to a mere damage-less Push?

 This is the point.

   If you can transfer all your energy in a fraction of a second, you do not need
to keep Pushing deeply thru the target.   Thus, he will not be pushed backwards
much at all.

 Most punchers can not release all their energy fast enough for that
to happen... AND, they simply do not understand that mere depth alone
does not do more damage.


 The fajin energy is like a shockwave, and rather than go merely forwards thru the
target... it will be more spherical.  Again, much like an bomb.  The reason, is
that the target can not deal absorb fast enough, and so the energy burst out in
all directions.   

 A typical punch does have some damages that spread out... but usually its
very limited because the energy at Impact, which is the most important time unit,
is only partial release... and the body can absorb it more easily.  As the punch
changes to push... it does no further damages..and most of the energy is merely
a forwards push.

 
 The Pool ball was en example in the TYPE of Material.   Has nothing to do with Sizes.
The solid high density material is very conductive, and Nothing like how a human
mass reacts.  If you have launch two Human Twins at each other, they wont react
like two pool balls at the same mass as the twins.   Humans have bone, which is like
a pool ball... but because that structure is covered in absorbing tissues, air pockets,
fluids, and even the bones themselves are flexing and filled with joints... the human
structure can absorb and redirect energies in ways that is unlike any pure solid object.
Being as such, you can not apply simply solid object physics to it.  Its a Lot more
complex than that.

[shmokes]

   If you can transfer all your energy in a fraction of a second, you do not need
to keep Pushing deeply thru the target.   Thus, he will not be pushed backwards
much at all.

I'm not . . . sure . . . that's . . . how physics works.

[Xiaou2]

Visual might help some who have Genuine Interest in Improoving Technique:

 Red Ball       = Fists
 Red Square = Full Mass
 Red Lines    = Force Lines
 Green          = Body (Chest)
 Yellow          = Shows COMPRESSED Tissue
 
 Top Half Shows Fajin Reaction.  
 Bottom half shows traditional reaction.

 Fajin Explanations (Top Half of Picture) :

    Frame 1:  Fists impacts and Compacts tissues until they are fully Compressed
    Frame 2:  Full body mass is then connected to the fist, by a blistering fast
     tightening of every single muscle in the body, to unify ALL MASS at one time unit.

     Notice the Force Lines.  They shoot out in all directions like a spherical explosion.
      The time unit = Instant Force Dump at possibly 1/100th of a second.

  ===========

 Boxer / Karate Punch  (Bottom Half of Picture) :

1) Fist and Partial Mass are already connected before punch hits.
2) Multiple boxes of mass represent mass that will stream over time.  For example,
1 Arm & part chest mass hits first, then hip/back added by push thru, possible
1 legs last.

3) Because less mass is impacting initially, and over a longer period of time... the
forces are absorbed well enough that the forces stay in a straight narrow line.
With Fajin, the forces are so great, that they force their way in all directions doing
mass damages in order to Try to dissipate.  

4) The smaller circles show the force being carried out long after initial impact, as
the puncher is Pushing / Accelerating the person away.  The force lines stay stable
as a stream initially, and quickly die down as speed is reduced via bodys friction
& the targets acceleration away.   The compression of the tissue is also seen reducing
over time.

 Let it be said, that Some Traditional Punchers Can and Do create Fajin.  Usually,
its a random act.. as they do not train it specifically, and thus it can not be called
upon at any instance accurately.

 Fajin can be added to Any kind of strike... including Hooks for example.  Its merely
a technology.  However, because its so powerful, and needs so little space to
utilize.. Wing Chun, and other similar arts... will choose to use the lead hand straight
punch (which is nearest the target) in order to get the hit there faster.. and because
its less likly to be stopped.

 ==========

 Picture 2

 ==========

 Shows again the  Typical  -vs-  Fajin  strike.  It shows the Amount of Mass activly
adding to the power of the strike at Solid Impact. (all forwards vectored & fully
connected as One solid unit, in One split second of Time)

 The Red shows Active Use of Mass at Impact
 
 In the typical punch, one leg, one arm, and various other parts are Not adding
to the forwards vector... and are Not connected as One unit at Impact.  Therefore,
do Not add to the damage potentials.

 In fact, Im actually being Generous with my Active mass on the traditional puncher.
For example, when the hip rotates.. only part of that energy is utilized due to
the mass rotating past a forwards vector.

 Im also creating a pathway for the energy from ground to hand... where as some
fighters lose this path with bad timing..mostly at the hip...  Thus only upper body and
arms are involved.

[Xiaou2]

Now that you Might understand what is happening..  Take a look again at a True
Master of Power.

 

 Notice that when he releases his energy... ALL of his mass is UNIFIED as ONE
Solid Object.   Watch as Every single muscle from his face, to he Legs reverberate
with UNIFIED Mass Force.

 If this man hit you with his full power, you would not make it to the emergency
center.  You would be riding a hearse.

[Comtek]

seems every argument on these treads involve one certain guy

[shmokes]

Sorry X, you're hilarious drawings just remind me of a shampoo commercial.  Like if I see a picture I'll say, "OHHHH!!!!  I see . . . the Pro V's are flying into each strand of hair.  Amazing!"  

But your picture doesn't begin to explain why a person would not be knocked backwards.  Your "force lines" clearly indicate that the person hit should be knocked backward.  Maybe you're just not hitting very hard.  There's an explanation that makes sense!

[shateredsoul]

seriously.. does anyone read these posts anyomre?

cool video though

[AtomSmasher]

I may be a business school flunky, but I seem to recall that velocity = mass * acceleration. 

I think there's a good reason you flunked because mass * accel = force, not velocity   

[shmokes]

I'm quite sure the correct formula is timing * flex = (spread)force

[ammitz]

Now that you Might understand what is happening..  Take a look again at a True
Master of Power.

The first thought that popped into my head when I saw the video was this:

[Xiaou2]

But your picture doesn't begin to explain why a person would not be knocked backwards.  Your "force lines" clearly indicate that the person hit should be knocked backward.  Maybe you're just not hitting very hard.  There's an explanation that makes sense!

  If you Read the description, you would realize that the picture on top is a time
unit of 1/100th of a second.   After that time unit, the fist is withdrawn, rather than
continuing to push further.

 The power dump is far faster than a typical strike, and does much more damages
as a result... yet also, because of the speed of the release, the punch does not
need to continue past a certain point... and the mass it hits is effected in a completely
different way.  The force is spread out in a sphere rather than mostly forwards with
a typical strike.  The force stays inside the target, doing more damages... instead of
merely accelerating the target backwards.

Yeah, 10 trillion cell phone cameras in this world and yet no one has managed to capture the elusive death punch.

 Roll Eyes

I may be a business school flunky, but I seem to recall that velocity = mass * acceleration.  I don't care how much that little chinese guy concentrates, I'm more scared of Iron Mike.

 Firstly, a person capable of powerful Fajin isnt going to take out a person, let alone
on film.   The best you will see are demos, like the ones in the videos where the
forces are released in the air, or partial release on a human thru a padded target,
just as Ive shown Both.

 ALSO, you dont SEE that kind of power.  You have to Feel it to know it.
There are plenty of hardened experiences martial artists who have told of
someone like Bruce Lee demo-hitting them, and how bad it messed them up.
Just as there are tons of people out there visiting someone like Chen Xiaowang
for a personal demo.


 Now, a bulky person has an easier time generating massive forces, because even if they
mess up and have massive losses... there is still plenty of mass to cover it.  However,
a smaller person does not have the luxury of such losses.   Also, the larger guys are
usually much slower, and easier to evade and counter.

 Tyson used to be powerful.. yet his return to the ring?  Not the same.  Why?
Same thing Ive been talking about.  Lack of ability to concentrate power.  When he
started out... he was an extreme angry troll.  His anger level, is what made him
able to create Fajin power... because his anger caused him to tighten all his
muscles on impact 'sharply'.   This is seen in a lot of fighters... when they get really
emotional, they create KO force power.   Tyson has calmed down, and does not have
that same animal instinctual power.  His quick-twitch muscles have probably
degenerated to mere slow-power muscles.  To regain these, you need to constantly
work with fast-twitch style drills.

 Tyson also is not skilled in anything besides boxing.  A fighter like this has no
experience with things like Groin protection, knee protection, or any means of
blocking/redirection whatsoever.

 With gloves off,  A smaller faster boxer is far more dangerous than Tyson.


 If you do not understand the difference between power release in
seconds -vs- split-seconds...  then there really is no point in trying to argue with you.

 If you do not understand the concept of Unified Mass = Greater power... then
again, I cant help you.

 Its not that you are not capable of understanding... and not that I have not
described it well enough... but merely to do with ignorance and beliefs.

 I can tell you one thing...  There will be Artists / Fighters who will read what Ive
posted...  Will understand...  Will say "Wow. I never thought about it like that",
And just may start to develop the power on their own...  Just as I did, from much less
helpful "Hints", in Lees books, over 10yrs ago.

[shmokes]

The force is spread out in a sphere rather than mostly forwards with
a typical strike.

Your cartoon does not show a sphere.  It shows a half sphere.  There is force going from front to back, but none going from back to front.  Your physics simply don't work, Xiaou.  The diagonal and vertical lines may cancel each other out, keeping the victim from being shot upwards or smashed to the ground, but there is no canceling force keeping her from being propelled backwards by the punch.

[Xiaou2]

I Explained it several times as Spherical.

 The diagonal cross hatch lines are merely compressed tissue. Nothing more.

 The reason a person is not propelled backwards more than a few inches,
is due to the amount of Time.  The time unit being a maybe one
Hundredth of a second.   (As well as how the body can dissipate forces)

[Gorotsuki]

Forget all this power punch stuff.
I just call in the Megazord.

[shmokes]

I Explained it several times as Spherical.

 The diagonal cross hatch lines are merely compressed tissue. Nothing more.

 The reason a person is not propelled backwards more than a few inches,
is due to the amount of Time.  The time unit being a maybe one
Hundredth of a second.   (As well as how the body can dissipate forces)

I'm not talking about your diagonal cross hatch lines.  I'm talking about your force lines.  They radiate out 180 degrees from the collision, not 360 degrees.  And I don't give a ---fudgesicle--- whether the energy is transferred in a hundredth of a second or a billionth of a second.  The energy we're talking about is kinetic energy, not static electricity (though there likely would be a transfer of that as well).  The transfer of kinetic energy is going to force the object at rest to move in the direction it was hit unless there is some opposing force stopping it.

[polaris]

I Explained it several times as Spherical.

 The diagonal cross hatch lines are merely compressed tissue. Nothing more.

 The reason a person is not propelled backwards more than a few inches,
is due to the amount of Time.  The time unit being a maybe one
Hundredth of a second.   (As well as how the body can dissipate forces)

I'm not talking about your diagonal cross hatch lines.  I'm talking about your force lines.  They radiate out 180 degrees from the collision, not 360 degrees.  And I don't give a ---fudgesicle--- whether the energy is transferred in a hundredth of a second or a billionth of a second.  The energy we're talking about is kinetic energy, not static electricity (though there likely would be a transfer of that as well).  The transfer of kinetic energy is going to force the object at rest to move in the direction it was hit unless there is some opposing force stopping it.

yeah, but this is magic, understand now?   

[northerngames]

But your picture doesn't begin to explain why a person would not be knocked backwards.  Your "force lines" clearly indicate that the person hit should be knocked backward.  Maybe you're just not hitting very hard.  There's an explanation that makes sense!

  If you Read the description, you would realize that the picture on top is a time
unit of 1/100th of a second.   After that time unit, the fist is withdrawn, rather than
continuing to push further.

 The power dump is far faster than a typical strike, and does much more damages
as a result... yet also, because of the speed of the release, the punch does not
need to continue past a certain point... and the mass it hits is effected in a completely
different way.  The force is spread out in a sphere rather than mostly forwards with
a typical strike.  The force stays inside the target, doing more damages... instead of
merely accelerating the target backwards.

Yeah, 10 trillion cell phone cameras in this world and yet no one has managed to capture the elusive death punch.

 Roll Eyes

I may be a business school flunky, but I seem to recall that velocity = mass * acceleration.  I don't care how much that little chinese guy concentrates, I'm more scared of Iron Mike.

 Firstly, a person capable of powerful Fajin isnt going to take out a person, let alone
on film.   The best you will see are demos, like the ones in the videos where the
forces are released in the air, or partial release on a human thru a padded target,
just as Ive shown Both.

 ALSO, you dont SEE that kind of power.  You have to Feel it to know it.
There are plenty of hardened experiences martial artists who have told of
someone like Bruce Lee demo-hitting them, and how bad it messed them up.
Just as there are tons of people out there visiting someone like Chen Xiaowang
for a personal demo.


 Now, a bulky person has an easier time generating massive forces, because even if they
mess up and have massive losses... there is still plenty of mass to cover it.  However,
a smaller person does not have the luxury of such losses.   Also, the larger guys are
usually much slower, and easier to evade and counter.

 Tyson used to be powerful.. yet his return to the ring?  Not the same.  Why?
Same thing Ive been talking about.  Lack of ability to concentrate power.  When he
started out... he was an extreme angry troll.  His anger level, is what made him
able to create Fajin power... because his anger caused him to tighten all his
muscles on impact 'sharply'.   This is seen in a lot of fighters... when they get really
emotional, they create KO force power.   Tyson has calmed down, and does not have
that same animal instinctual power.  His quick-twitch muscles have probably
degenerated to mere slow-power muscles.  To regain these, you need to constantly
work with fast-twitch style drills.

 Tyson also is not skilled in anything besides boxing.  A fighter like this has no
experience with things like Groin protection, knee protection, or any means of
blocking/redirection whatsoever.

 With gloves off,  A smaller faster boxer is far more dangerous than Tyson.


 If you do not understand the difference between power release in
seconds -vs- split-seconds...  then there really is no point in trying to argue with you.

 If you do not understand the concept of Unified Mass = Greater power... then
again, I cant help you.

 Its not that you are not capable of understanding... and not that I have not
described it well enough... but merely to do with ignorance and beliefs.

 I can tell you one thing...  There will be Artists / Fighters who will read what Ive
posted...  Will understand...  Will say "Wow. I never thought about it like that",
And just may start to develop the power on their own...  Just as I did, from much less
helpful "Hints", in Lees books, over 10yrs ago.

no that's prison food no ring time and no bazillion dollar incentive's from the don.

also what he lack's in now he make's up on your ear.

[shmokes]

Why in god's name would you ever, ---smurfing--- ever, quote a Xiaou2 post in its entirety?  Are you mad???

[shmokes]

yeah, but this is magic, understand now?   

It's . . . beginning . . . to make . . . sense . . .

[northerngames]

Why in god's name would you ever, ---smurfing--- ever, quote a Xiaou2 post in its entirety?  Are you mad???

believe it or not I don't know how to do a partial quote 

[shmokes]

   I just click the quote button and then delete the parts I don't want.  Then if I want to do multiple quotes I just copy/paste the open quote tag and add another close quote tag.

[Malenko]

first off Tyson wasn't so great when he returned to the ring because once little mac figured out the red blink / eye wink , everyone knew how to beat him.


I think I know how to put this to rest. Xiaou, go find an 80 lb woman, teach her how to do your HaDoKen punch and I'll fight her. I'll bet you I win and I am pretty much untrained in anything except Mortal Kombat and street fighter (II) but I have a Killer Instinct

[hypernova]

If Xiaou can do a Kamehame-ha, that'd be frickin' sick.

Then I'd also believe pc fans should be sucking air in on the bottom rather than blowing out hot air at the top.

[Xiaou2]

They radiate out 180 degrees from the collision, not 360 degrees.

 Zoom in on the picture.  The lines are greater than 180 degrees.  However, my
apologies for not drawing completely to the edges

  And I don't give a ---fudgesicle--- whether the energy is transferred in a hundredth of a second or a billionth of a second.  The energy we're talking about is kinetic energy, not static electricity (though there likely would be a transfer of that as well).  The transfer of kinetic energy is going to force the object at rest to move in the direction it was hit unless there is some opposing force stopping it.

 This again shows your lack of understanding of physics in the human body.
 
 The body Will move back some, but the distance a body is moved back is not merely
based on power levels.  Time IS a factor. And so is the material you are striking.

 For example, I can stand toe to toe, and push a person backwards several feet.
However, it would do No damage whatsoever.

 I can also hit a persons belly surface and pull back just as fast, and again... no
damages, as well as no body movement at all.

 I can hit Hard and follow thru for 2 seconds time...  and that person may stumble back
4 to 5 ft.

 Or, I could hit hard with fajin, with a split second release, and the person will only
move back a foot at most.


 There are many things that create greater target push back:

1) Amount of force
2) Depth of Hit
3) Amount of Time the energy is left "on".  (Time the punch is still pushing forwards)
4) Weather the Target is completely limp, or is actually "resistive".
5) Weather the Target person re-directs the energies, such as bending knees - which
changes horizontal forces to downwards shock absorption.
6) The kind of target you hit. Solid bone -vs- Fleshy
7) Type of mass distribution & Center of Gravity.
Configuration of Joints / Energy flow pathways

 And much much more. The bodys effects are too numberous to list.   

 
 I can throw a down-diagonal forwards kick at a persons forwards lead leg Knee, and the knee is barely going to move at all. It will compress and stress the joint and tissue... but it has little way too move.

 Without any real in depth fighting experience, its easy to know why you do not
understand these concepts.   Even many experienced fighters may have difficulty
understanding some of this stuff... as something like Fajin, and Tai Chi absorption
techniques, are some of the highest levels of technical abilities out there.

[polaris]

get a video camera, get a big lump of solid ice , lay it somewhere where it would slide away from you if you pushed it. Hit it in a horizontal plane with one of your magic punches, if the ice shatters but doesn't move away from the punch at all ,i'll believe you, if not you need to go read some physics text and admit you're wrong.

[shmokes]

 There are many things that create greater target push back:

1) Amount of force
2) Depth of Hit
3) Amount of Time the energy is left "on".  (Time the punch is still pushing forwards)
4) Weather the Target is completely limp, or is actually "resistive".
5) Weather the Target person re-directs the energies, such as bending knees - which
changes horizontal forces to downwards shock absorption.
6) The kind of target you hit. Solid bone -vs- Fleshy
7) Type of mass distribution & Center of Gravity.
Configuration of Joints / Energy flow pathways

But all other things being equal, the harder punch is going to knock a person back more than the softer punch.  I don't know what the weather has to do with it, but the majority of those variables exist in equal measure whether you're boxing or realutlimatepower punching.  All of those things being equal, the more energy transferred, the more a person will be knocked backwards.  And, btw, turning off the energy (3 on your list) is not going to transfer a greater amount of power any more than turning off a light switch uses more power.

[shmokes]

 Zoom in on the picture.  The lines are greater than 180 degrees.  However, my
apologies for not drawing completely to the edges

BTW, when punching do you yell out, "Avada Kadavra!" to get this effect?

[northerngames]

a good real example of real fighter's not playing games or doing demo's on phonebook's is brock lesnar VS the texas crazy horse heath herring.

brock hit him with a clean straight and the guy went down on his ass and actually rolled backwards into the fence becuase of the mass size and power of brock.

if you think you can hit harder then him your trully nuts.

after heath took that blow he quikly got to his feet amazingly but his eye and pretty much the whole side of his face was swollen purple just seconds after the impact.

he did not get knocked out from the forehead punch all though it was swollen with his eye nor did his head explode with fajin he got clobbered straight by a large tree trunk of an arm and that was two real mortals in a real fight and what really happens when you get hit really really hard by a huge fist with more power then your average human I would say.

heath is also like 6' 8" 250lbs+ I believe and brock put him down and sent him rolling backward's in one blow.

what your claiming is if brock had his fajin down packed instead of the other guy rolling back brock could just do like jim brown did in the dusk dusk till dawn movie.

Just do a side step and snatch that heart right out of the guy while still standing there with a stupid look on his face.

   

[danny_galaga]

My moneys still on the pirates...

[Xiaou2]

after heath took that blow he quikly got to his feet amazingly but his eye and pretty much the whole side of his face was swollen purple just seconds after the impact.


he did not get knocked out from the forehead punch all though it was swollen with his eye nor did his head explode with fajin he got clobbered straight by a large tree trunk of an arm and that was two real mortals in a real fight and what really happens when you get hit really really hard by a huge fist with more power then your average human I would say.

 This says it all.  The guy got back up.   There was a ton of power released... but it
was "dull" enough that it did not cause brain damages, blood vessel ruptures... Not even
a lowly knockout.  

 It was a heavy Stream of energy, and not an immediate full mass dump.


 Ive knocked out 3 fighters, all of my choosing.  IE: Not on accident.  Not by chance.
Not after 15 tries.   Single hit KOs  at will.   I was a mere 150lbs at that time... and
I only put maybe 20% power @ 6ft distance.   This is not to brag.  Its merely
to say what happened, and what is possible at the weight level.

 A person with 200+  lbs  with Fajin, would have to be far more careful, because the
level of power would be multiplied to an unthinkable level.   Which is exactly what
happened when the Bulky JKD guy hit me from a mere 1"  thru the 4" phone book,
setting my chest on fire for 4hrs long.  Another inch and I would have been critical.
I almost went to the hospital as it stood, as the pains were unbearable.

 "Dull power" is NOT painless, and can even be fatal.   However, the
same person trained in Fajin, can multiply his power well over 3x, reduce his need
for large distances, and make his strike over  3x  as fast.

 Dull power isnt going to work well for the smaller person who needs to defend himself
and his loved ones.    They simply do not have enough mass to create enough
effect with it.   However, Sharp concentrated power Will work.

 

And, btw, turning off the energy (3 on your list) is not going to transfer a greater amount of power any more than turning off a light switch uses more power.

 Fajin is a Bomb. The  MASS  is delivered ALL-AT-ONCE, in a split second.  Once its been transferred, its 100% done.

 I simply wont argue the point anyone.  You do not understand physics well enough... and you are too lazy to read the actual details correctly to make the understandings.

(which causes me to retype the same thing 3+  times.   It will be amazing if you can
actually 'make it' as a lawyer with those kinds of reading skillz)

[Xiaou2]

Which one is more Powerful / Preferable:


1)  Full mass delivery  in  .001  second
 
200

 
 Or


2) Stream of quickly decelerating Mass over 3 seconds
 


50 30 30 20 20 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 05 05 05 05 05 05 05 02 02 02 02 02 01 10101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101 01010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010 10101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101 01010101010100101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101 01010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101
(This part would go on for several pages if compared in relative time units)

[polaris]

if it can be explained by physics as you claim, show me the formula that explains it, not a load of numbers that mean......
nothing

do you understand now its in red and big letters

[HaRuMaN]

lol

[Cakemeister]

I think what X is describing is what in physics is called an "impulse", which is the integral of force over time.

Consider two punches delivering the same amount of momentum. Punch A is delivered with a much higher force over a much lower time than punch B. Punch B might have a net effect like a push, if it is slow enough, but punch A might have a more damaging effect.

It's sometimes hard to tell what X is saying, but I think that this whole fajin business is how to concentrate the same amount of punching power over a shorter time frame, thus increasing the force delivered. I'm guessing this higher force is what causes X the chest pain, instant death, and other effects.

[Xiaou2]

Cakemeister is much close to the mark of understanding.

 The real speed comes from fast muscle twitch.  Similar to how you blink your
eye.   But its done with the whole-body at once.   A sort of convulsion/spasm.

 Without touching anything, it looks foolish.  However, when attached to the end
of an already fast moving fist, and pressed against a solid target... its forces
become amplified and very damaging.   

 Again, you are talking nearly all your mass dumped in a time unit in the
fraction of a second.   So much power, in so little time, is immense.
The tissues / organs can not absorb it fast enough... and shread/tear/explode.

[Malenko]

don't you understand, if someone shot you with a bullet and the bullet was wiggling and stopped as it hit your skin, it'd do way more damage. 

Also, I got $50 on jim living and Im still willing to beat the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- out of Xiaou's death strike trained 80 lb woman.

[Xiaou2]

 Ohh PBJ, Im sure there may be several posters that woudnt mind missing you...
but no, thats not what Im about.

 Im happy to give limited power Demos, and even teach the technique.  But Im not
reckless, and do not fight people to prove that I can take a life or put them into the
hospital.   Ive come to learn there are way too many mindless hardheaded brutes
who do not know whats best for them.   However, "I" know the result.  I also know
that a life is far more precious than a mere $1000.

 And even IF a limited power demo is done on PBJ,  there will Still be people who question
its validity, as well as the tough-ness of PBJ.  IE: More challenges will form a line, maybe
trying to attack at will.

 In addition, I have not done serious level of training in years, so while I do have
some fajin in me,its much more limited than it used to be. Thie timing is so precise, and
you need very tuned quick-twitch fibers.  Mine are half gone and out of tune.  Id need a
few months of building & re-training to be satisfied with high level performance and
precise and perfect repeatability.

(IE:  I just went to hit the fajin bag now, and Im only getting the 'Full' mass effect maybe once
every 12 attempts at 8".  I used to be able to make the effect work full power, every shot,
at only 1".)

 I could probably still KO under 8" (maybe much more than I realize).. but the problem is,
Im nervous to even try.  The power is sudden and violent... so to go from  
"Dizzy"  to  "Disaster" can be well too easy an accident.

 The incident would probably unfold like this:

1) Punch at 1/10th power to forehead.
2) Hows that?  Want more?  (Hesitation. Thinking twice, but Pride takes over)  Yes?  Ok. Heres 1/4...
3) Hows that?  (Seeing Stars.Almost passing out)   Want 1/2?   No?  Ok.  Demo over.

 The time will come, when a video may be posted.   Until then, you will have to find someone
local to satisfy your disbelief's with.

[northerngames]

Ive knocked out 3 fighters, all of my choosing.  IE: Not on accident.  Not by chance.
Not after 15 tries.   Single hit KOs  at will.   I was a mere 150lbs at that time... and
I only put maybe 20% power @ 6ft distance.   This is not to brag.  Its merely
to say what happened, and what is possible at the weight level.

that's becuase you had choosen the 3 smallest glass joe's that could not take a hit instead of choosing the tyson's instead.

I honostly think your fajin and forehead punch would go nowhere with heath herring or pretty much any other experianced reality fighter not all people get knocked out very easy unless they have a thin skull or got rocked extremely hard and clean.

in reality there also not going to stand still there while you build your kuma power's up.

no different when there are some guys that pass out just from seeing blood while other's could be beat bloody for an hour straight but never fall out.

boxer's take how many hits in one round and go a full 12 if you think your fajin is faster and harder then a pro boxer's punch's good luck to you if you cross there path bare knuckle on bad terms becuase there power and punch's are a proven reality that is shown full force on another human on video and in person.

not phonebook's not spring jumping 30ft up in a maple tree or running acrosss the bamboo forrest top's.

could you perhaps find a real video with a real person taking one of these punch's in full contact with no demo's or magic involved becuase I have never seen this done and think you speak of something straight out of an ol 70's kung fu movie and for some reason you think these actor's really can do that stuff like steven seagull and his non tangeling hair move's.

[Xiaou2]

that's becuase you had choosen the 3 smallest glass joe's that could not take a hit instead of choosing the tyson's instead.

 Heh.  Funny stuff.   Ive fought men over twice my mass on a regular basis.  However, I never
chose to KO them, as they were respectful enough.  It was only a few select punks, who got exactly
what they deserved.

I honostly think your fajin and forehead punch would go nowhere with heath herring or pretty much any other experianced reality fighter not all people get knocked out very easy unless they have a thin skull or got rocked extremely hard and clean.

 You really dont know much about the brain and head area.   I does not take much force
to rattle the brain.  It does not matter how big the person is.  The effect is the same on that
area. Bone to Bone conduction is the Best energy transfer material.  The force goes instantly
thru it without absorption losses, and right on to messing with the brain.

 If hitting an obese man in the fatty ab area... then yes, that person isnt going to be effected
the same way a smaller thinner man would.  But bone to bone conduction is complete different.

 Unless that man has an inch of Fat in his forehead, he would be rocked just as bad
as anyone else, when taking a fajin strike there.


 The reason why some of these pro fighters take so many hits and stay upright is not due
to their Iron heads.  Its the fact that the puncher is wearing force absorbing gloves, And that
they are not getting a good connecting shot in.  IE: the person rolls off a good deal of the
energy with shoulder/hip turn and footwork.

 Some of the reasons I can get a clean precise shot in without the person being able to evade or
roll off some of the energy, is because:

1) Punch is not launched till target is 1.5 ft or less away.  Too close to easily roll / dodge.
  ((Punch travels about 40 feet per second))

2) (punching) Lead extended hand, is closer to target.

3) Punch is non-telegraphic.

in reality there also not going to stand still there while you build your kuma power's up.

 lol.   In demos, you see a person take their time to get things maximized for 'shows sake'. 
Most of the Demos involve Pushing, rather than focused damage power.  An
explosive push.  To get maximum crowd pleasing... they want to maximize things to get the
most distance.

 In my case, the JKD guy knew I was a martial artists, and I specifically asked to see the
difference in power levels.  He therefore knew I would not be impressed by a distance push, that
Wow the masses... and let me have a real fajin strike.

 In reality, there is no need to prepare.  Its easily done on-the-fly.  And all the people whom Ive
rocked, was during Live sparring matches. 2 of which were skilled grapplers.

no different when there are some guys that pass out just from seeing blood while other's could be beat bloody for an hour straight but never fall out.

 This contains a lot of truth... but not really the way you think.  Yes, a lot of people can take a
lot of abuse.  But take the gloves off, and take the rules away:  A true brutal street fight usually
last mere seconds - even with two of the toughest bad -Bottoms- around.

 The brainwashers really have you wound up.

boxer's take how many hits in one round and go a full 12 if you think your fajin is faster and harder then a pro boxer's punch's good luck to you if you cross there path bare knuckle on bad terms becuase there power and punch's are a proven reality that is shown full force on another human on video and in person.

 A boxer takes so many hits, because they are not really allowed to deflect them properly.
Also, the gloves are so thick in boxing matches... that "sharp force" is nearly impossible to achieve.
 
 My hats off to boxers.  They are Tough cookies, and in incredible shape...
 But the reality is, I can take any boxer, have him try to throw a straight punch at less than 6",
and it will be dismal.  I can improve any boxers abilities and power output with Fajin training...
Both in Close range, and with their longer range & typical boxer strikes.

not phonebook's not spring jumping 30ft up in a maple tree or running acrosss the bamboo forrest top's.

 The phone book is placed on a persons chest to keep most of the force inside the phone
book.. and not concentrated as intensely in their innards.  It spreads the forces over a larger
area, which also reduces overall damage potentials.  Even with all that, a 1" fajin strike nearly
hospitalized me...  (And Ive took a full power kick from an incredible TKD guy, that lifted me
off the ground, and created Micro-Fractures in my chest.  I got right back up and kept fighting.
Im no creme puff)

could you perhaps find a real video with a real person taking one of these punch's in full contact with no demo's or magic involved becuase I have never seen this done and think you speak of something straight out of an ol 70's kung fu movie and for some reason you think these actor's really can do that stuff like steven seagull and his non tangeling hair move's.

 The one video contains a straight punch, which uses a partial level release of fajin.  The guy holding
the pad, is audibly in pain, and immediately doubles over.

 Fajin does Not have a certain look.  You can even add fajin to a boxers Hook.   
The only difference you Might notice... is the way the fighters body acts at impact, and the effect of
the person who takes the hit.

 Its far easier to notice a person like Chen Xiaowang's Fajin, partly because of his breath
noise... but mostly because of the shaking of all his mass After the release.   But, the power
release itself, is basically invisible to the human eye, because its happening at "Fraction of Second"
speed.

[northerngames]

  So in all the years of boxing and mma how come nobody does this fajin and just knock everyone out in 1 strike make their buck and go home the champ 10 second's later.

  I mean it is mma from japan brazil russia usa tailand china pretty much everywhere with some of the best real fighter's in the world and I never heard of any of them having this one hit wonder punch so where are these fajin fighter's coming from again and who do they fight for real becuase a demo of something like that just don't get it lol.

  Closest guy to one hit wonders was tyson in his prime and I dont't recall any 3" or 6" punch's he squated down low and came up with a cross upper cut type deal and I doubt he even heard of fajin but other then him who was knocking heavy weights out in less then 30 second's or on there first blow in the majority or their real ring or street fight's?

 kimbo sometimes's but he don't know fajin nor heard of it either I dont believe  

I do respect all art forms but I am lost on where the proof is and why it is not applied to any real time fights around the world.

I never heard in any headline's man dies becuase fighter accidently slipped him the ol 3" fajin punch and his heart exploded.

the way your talking glove's would not even matter in your case becuase your punch is so fast and powerfull they never have time to compress and I just don't understand where this logic is coming from.

and yes I understand that your not going to get much out of a 3" punch wearing a boxing glove 

[Vanguard]

Forget all this analysis of Xiaou2's Jedi powers.   

Ask yourself, who really expects to defend themselves these days with any martial art?

In today's society, if someone wants to do you harm and take your belongings, it's likely you will be dead before you're even aware of the persons intent.   You'd never even be given the opportunity to whip out your 1" punch or your miyag magic.   

First, any criminal is going to prey on the weakest and most defenseless looking person they can find.   They aren't going to pick the guy who looks like he works out.  They are going to go after grandma or grandpa.

Second, if they are going to go after someone who isn't the weakest, then they are going to bring deadly force (gun).   They aren't going to give you a chance to defend yourself.  Like I said, you'll be dead before you even see them or at least shortly after.  Even if they just hold you at gun point, they aren't going to get within reach of you and likely if you try to make a move they will shoot you.

Look at the recent Pentagon shooting.   A shooter approached 2 ARMED officers and shot them.   These are people trained in defending themselves and they still could not react in time to disable the shooter before being shot themselves.   Now imagine if those 2 officers were standing there in their karate pajamas and had only their 1" punch to protect them.   Not only would they both be dead right now, many more people would as well because the shooter would have just moved on to the next victim.  One of the officers even said he knew when they guy walked up that something bad was about to happen.   And still, he couldn't react fast enough.

Seriously,  other than mind/body exercises / hobby, does anyone really think they are learning self defense with martial arts?

[saint]

Yes, I completely believe I am learning to defend myself. I poll most of the upper belts I work with and ask them if they've ever had to use it. Most have not, but a decent percentage have. Examples:

- One of my sensei's (strong looking guy) was attacked from behind by 2 thugs. He turned around and cleaned their clock bad enough they were still there when the police arrived. His injuries were minor.

- One of my classmates is a security guard (the no-gun type). An irate customer of the car dealership he works at attacked him. He put an arm lock on him and held him down until the police arrived.

- My JuJitsu sensei was an English teacher. Somewhat petite lady. Two football players (seniors in high school, big guys) started fighting each other with the intent of doing each other serious harm. She got behind one and put a choke hold on him, and put her foot in the belly of the second. Both of them were out of the fight in a few seconds.

- I personally was in a situation when a white belt. Short story is I got between a big guy and one of my family members and told the big guy to back off. I was able to talk him down, but I was prepared to use what few things I knew at the time to stop him from hurting my family member. All testosterone and fists, no deadly weapons or planned assaults.

We train on gun and knife defense. I have techniques I will use should I ever need to. The first technique we're taught is that if we're faced with a gun/knife, we should give them whatever the hell they want and run away as soon as possible. However, if we believe that the gun/knife is going to be used rather than just waved around, we have techniques and training that will come to play. Rather than just sit there and let the person kill me or a loved one, we'll take action. I'd guess I have somewhere between a 30-60% chance of successfully taking the gun/knife away (I am not yet very good at the techniques by any means) depending on circumstances.

You also discount things like purse snatching, bar fights, people getting out of hand at sporting events, ... etc.

I couldn't disagree with you more. I guarantee you likely every single person in every martial arts class I take hopes not to have to use their skills to defend themselves, but believes it is a possibility.

Forget all this analysis of Xiaou2's Jedi powers.   

Ask yourself, who really expects to defend themselves these days with any martial art?

In today's society, if someone wants to do you harm and take your belongings, it's likely you will be dead before you're even aware of the persons intent.   You'd never even be given the opportunity to whip out your 1" punch or your miyag magic.   

First, any criminal is going to prey on the weakest and most defenseless looking person they can find.   They aren't going to pick the guy who looks like he works out.  They are going to go after grandma or grandpa.

Second, if they are going to go after someone who isn't the weakest, then they are going to bring deadly force (gun).   They aren't going to give you a chance to defend yourself.  Like I said, you'll be dead before you even see them or at least shortly after.  Even if they just hold you at gun point, they aren't going to get within reach of you and likely if you try to make a move they will shoot you.

Look at the recent Pentagon shooting.   A shooter approached 2 ARMED officers and shot them.   These are people trained in defending themselves and they still could not react in time to disable the shooter before being shot themselves.   Now imagine if those 2 officers were standing there in their karate pajamas and had only their 1" punch to protect them.   Not only would they both be dead right now, many more people would as well because the shooter would have just moved on to the next victim.  One of the officers even said he knew when they guy walked up that something bad was about to happen.   And still, he couldn't react fast enough.

Seriously,  other than mind/body exercises / hobby, does anyone really think they are learning self defense with martial arts?

[Vanguard]

Yes, I completely believe I am learning to defend myself. I poll most of the upper belts I work with and ask them if they've ever had to use it. Most have not, but a decent percentage have. Examples:

I'm specifically addressing lethal force since Xiaou2 is making claims that he can kill with a punch.   What situation would arise where that would actually be practical.   I can think of none expect perhaps being attacked by a fellow ninja.   Anyone else is going to kill you from ten feet away.

I seriously doubt that anyone who intends on killing you with a gun is going to give you any chance whatsover to use your skills.   Again, look at the Pentagon shooting.   This was gun vs. gun and highly trained individuals could do nothing to protect themselves.

You also discount things like purse snatching, bar fights, people getting out of hand at sporting events, ... etc.

No, I'm not discounting those.  I'm not really even addressing those types of issues.   But since you bring them up, the rational person would just stay out situations like that and let security deal with it or let the robber have the purse.   Likely you are just going to interject yourself into something that is going to get you hurt or you're going to hurt someone else and then find yourself on the receiving end of a lawsuit.


Take Martial Arts to boost confidence, stamina, for fun, whatever.   Take a firearms class and get a concealed weapons permit if you want to defend yourself.

[shateredsoul]

Take Martial Arts to boost confidence, stamina, for fun, whatever.   Take a firearms class and get a concealed weapons permit if you want to defend yourself.

We don't need more people carrying guns on the streets... Cops kill enough people as it is. Don't need any paranoid trigger happy pedestrians kill off people as well.

[Malenko]

We don't need more people carrying guns on the streets... Cops kill enough people as it is. Don't need any paranoid trigger happy pedestrians kill off people as well.

Too many men, too many people, makin too many problems. And theres not much love to go `round

[Vanguard]

Read up on Kennisaw Georgia (just outside Atlanta).  

I'm not advocating that everyone run out and buy a gun either.   I'm saying that if you feel the need to be able to defend yourself, do it right.   Like the famous line from The Untouchables, "Don't bring a knife to a gun fight".   Not exactly the quote but a close approximation to keep it PC.

Likely if you find yourself in some sort of altercation, just running/walking away is your best option.   If it that isn't possible you are likely in a life threatening situation and you better be better armed than your attacker.   Trying to land a 3" death blow when a guy with a guy is standing 10 or even 5 feet away from you isn't going to cut it.   Hell, even a tazer would probably be a better option that getting into a close quarter situation.

Also, by the time you finish a concealed weapons permit course, you aren't just some trigger happy pedestrian.   You fully understand what you've signed up for and how badly the law will come down on you if you even think of brandishing the weapon.   You don't even touch the weapon unless you are positive you are going to kill someone.

[CCM]

Also, by the time you finish a concealed weapons permit course, you aren't just some trigger happy pedestrian.   You fully understand what you've signed up for and how badly the law will come down on you if you even think of brandishing the weapon.   You don't even touch the weapon unless you are positive you are going to kill someone.

What course!?   I live in Pennsylvania, just fill out an application, pay the fee, and you get your conceal/carry permit.   There are no courses here.  It may be different in other states, but don't assume just because someone owns a gun and has a conceal/carry that he has any idea how to handle the damn thing safely.

[CCM]

There are also a bunch of states (I believe there are 17) that honor other states conceal/carry permits.  So, my permit that I have in PA will be honored in about 16 other states.  So, there are 17 states that I can carry without ever having taken any kind of safety course...

[Vanguard]

In Florida there is a course and you must show competency with a handgun.

Regardless though, even in a state like yours, how often do you hear about someone with a concealed weapons permit doing something stupid?

I've only heard about the good outcomes here where someone prevented themselves or others from becoming a victim.

[Hoopz]

To make sure this thread stays out of PnR, let's go another route...

Is Xiaou2 registered as a lethal weapon yet?  He's got to be the baddest man in the whole damn town since he trains for "real life".

[Hoopz]

Okay, so nobody wants to reveal how damaging their tiger punch is on a real person, but why isn't there video of some karate dude making a watermelon explode?

You'll have to refer to the drawings for your answer.   

[Vanguard]

Okay, so nobody wants to reveal how damaging their tiger punch is on a real person, but why isn't there video of some karate dude making a watermelon explode?

Because Ninjas will only unleash their fajin fury on an attacker.   Watermelons are not easily provoked and rarely attack.

[northerngames]

Take Martial Arts to boost confidence, stamina, for fun, whatever.   Take a firearms class and get a concealed weapons permit if you want to defend yourself.

We don't need more people carrying guns on the streets... Cops kill enough people as it is. Don't need any paranoid trigger happy pedestrians kill off people as well.

[Xiaou2]

So in all the years of boxing and mma how come nobody does this fajin and just knock everyone out in 1 strike make their buck and go home the champ 10 second's later.

 It was not until Bruce Lee that the very concept of short range power was introduced to
the masses.  Before that, the information was "Closed Door"... meaning, only select
Chinese were taught it Privately.

 Even as Lee knew it, he never gave a step-by-step how to guide.  He merely gave some
hints here and there... and maybe two of his students learned the power version.

 Its taken nearly till now for even the Word "Fajin"  to even be decently known.   Tai Chi actually
was pretty much spread here as a meditation art...  However, Tai Chi was actually developed for
combat. Its just that most people didnt teach the combat version.
 
 Wing Chun itself, was developed to take out the older Chinese Govt.  However, the number
of soldiers were too many, and the rebellion failed. The secret society went underground, and
Wing Chun stayed pretty much a private secret for 300 yrs.

 Just because Fajin does not appear to be widly known and used, does not make it false.
Its people like yourself,  with such a strong opposition to a new concept (new to you),
that it is not believed in enough for a fighter to pursue it with effort.

 

I mean it is mma from japan brazil russia usa tailand china pretty much everywhere with some of the best real fighter's in the world and I never heard of any of them having this one hit wonder punch so where are these fajin fighter's coming from again and who do they fight for real becuase a demo of something like that just don't get it lol.

 If you consider MMA fighters to be the best... Then you pretty much are clueless to reality.
You need to drop your Fanboyism, and wake up to the real history and realities of combat.

  Closest guy to one hit wonders was tyson in his prime and I dont't recall any 3" or 6" punch's he squated down low and came up with a cross upper cut type deal and I doubt he even heard of fajin but other then him who was knocking heavy weights out in less then 30 second's or on there first blow in the majority or their real ring or street fight's?

 The uprising was a means of directionalizing the mass vector.  Tyson could barely spell his name.
He didnt learn Fajin by anyone... but he may have got the results of Fajin, merely from the way
he trained / moved.   Just as Im sure that someone also accidentally came across the technology
by the way they trained and moved.

I do respect all art forms but I am lost on where the proof is and why it is not applied to any real time fights around the world.

 The first things out of your mind and mouth, are "---smurf-poo---".   This is not a respectable
attitude... nor is it one of growth.   For me, when I started to get serious in the arts... I quickly
learned the top fighter was Bruce Lee.  And the more research I did on Lee, the more I found out
about the depths and truths of the arts... and how he was far more than what was seen in any
of the movies he made.

 Lee said it was possible, and that was enough for me to believe it enough to dump efforts into it.
And even if Lee hadnt...  I was always looking for advice and ways of improovment.  Im always
skeptical,  and I advise everyone to be...  But, I always Test something before tossing it.
(With exception to that no-touch crud... which even if it did turn out to have some tiny bit
of validity... I wouldnt waste effort into it in either direction)

 I can assure you, that if you do the research, you will find a ton of people talking about it,
and detailing it.  And, visit some local schools around... and you may be fortunate enough
to encounter it in person... even if its a non-refined somewhat weaker version of it.

I never heard in any headline's man dies becuase fighter accidently slipped him the ol 3" fajin punch and his heart exploded.

 You never heard of a persons organs rupturing in a fight?   I have.   You never heard of a person
having a heart attack?   A burst blood vessel?    People shrug the stuff off as coincidence.... and
yes, sometimes it is.  However, these things were developed for a serious purpose.  There Are
people who trained these for war/combat & protection... just as they still do today.  People who
have good Fajin, are people who dont usually make such mistakes.  Its used as a last resort,
and not for sport...  and when it is used, you usually have very good control by that time you
are ready for real action.

the way your talking glove's would not even matter in your case becuase your punch is so fast and powerfull they never have time to compress and I just don't understand where this logic is coming from.

 In all cases, I did have a older style MMA glove on when I created the KOs.  The padding
is pretty thin, and isnt high density foam. However, boxing gloves are about 4 times as thick,
and have a huge surface area.  It reallly dampens the energy transfer... just like floor mats
keep gymnast from extreme knee damage on landings.

 
 As for Melons (YUM   )  ... Sorry, but they do not act anything like human tissue does.

[Malenko]

whats the point? You can do something you never do? What good is it? Please don't reply with "its just good to know I can do it" because that's utter horsehit. If you could wipe the floor with the MMA guys you seem to like to belittle, you'd hop in the octagon and make bank. You could donate the money to a good cause and have confirmation of your technique and open a dojo (or what ever you wanna call it). I say that just in case you try to play the "I wouldn't do it for fame and money" card

Almost everyone in here wants to punch PBJ, hes gonna let you, and you decline?WTF! That right there is sufficient reason to doubt you.

Bruce Lee died 37 years ago, in almost 40 years the technique hasn't spread but you know it? Righteous! Also, he personally certified 3 instructors, so I'm pretty sure at least 3 people knew the "pure" version, and if they taught 3 each we're up to 12 and I'm sure it would have spread to more then just you and the old guy in the vids above.

I digress this topic is stupid and the more you reply the more absurd you look. At least chad can admit he couldn't load MDF in a truck.

[DillonFoulds]

*sigh* I always thought Trolls lived alone under bridges. Looks like they flock together like sheep on BYOAC.

[protokatie]

F=ma was brought up a few times, so I will drop another equation that should be used when impact force is needed F=.5mv^2 . Even tho the velocity is squared, you need to be punching damn fast to do any real damage.

[northerngames]

I said they were some of the best in the world.

have any video's of bruce in a the real ring or a street fight something beside's a demo or movie I would love to see the real bruce lee in action outside of hollywood film.

now I know he was into arts and looked up to be a bad dude but I never seen nor heard of anything special off the hollywood camera when it comes to real fighting.

do you believe he can spring jump 30ft into a tree when gaurds come too  

E=MC[]

[SavannahLion]

I got bored reading through this. Can someone just give me the Cliff Notes?

[shateredsoul]

I got bored reading through this. Can someone just give me the Cliff Notes?

lol

[protokatie]

I got bored reading through this. Can someone just give me the Cliff Notes?

Ok. Tigger is an expert at everything, and can kill someone by using his hands with what amounts to near zero force. This power of his is so great that he may never use it. Also, he invented QM as well as classical physics, but more importantly, he invented peanut butter.

[Hoopz]

George Washington Carver created peanut butter.  Before X got within 120 years and 17 feet of him though.  X's death punch of death is pretty deadly to have killed Dr Carver and allow X to steal peanut butter from him.

[CheffoJeffo]

He's got to be the baddest man in the whole damn town since he trains for "real life".

But is he badder than old King Kong ? Meaner than a junkyard dog ?

We already know that he's a jigsaw puzzle with a couple of pieces gone.

[Gorotsuki]

Don't forget,
Bruce Lee versus anything, but an aspirin and muscle relaxant combination.
Bruce Lee wins.

[patrickl]

I got bored reading through this. Can someone just give me the Cliff Notes?

I think you only need to read this quote:

Now imagine if those 2 officers were standing there in their karate pajamas and had only their 1" punch to protect them.

[Cakemeister]

I wonder who would win between Bruce Lee and Chuck Norris?

[HaRuMaN]

I wonder who would win between Bruce Lee and Chuck Norris?

They've already done that.  Bruce Lee won.

I forget which movie that was in.

EDIT:  It's in "Way of the Dragon".  

Google Link

[Malenko]

while chuck norris is 70, bruce lee is dead, so I think chuck can take him

[Gorotsuki]

Definitely,
Chuck would bore him to death
with his right wing politics.

[Xiaou2]

whats the point? You can do something you never do? What good is it?

 First off, fajin power levels can be controlled... but my point to PBJ, was that I dont intentionally
Push the limits, walking the line with a Bet.  If its a mere demo, I put enough power in there to
dizzy a person, and thats all. (nobody has asked for more) However, a true attacker would get
enough to knock them out...  or worse, if the situation called for it.

 Ive had punks start crap with me, get in my fact...etc.  At those times, I knew I had the upper
hand, and so was calm.  Had they actually attacked, they would have been put down quickly.
Had I not had fajin, and was attacked, I may have ended up with boots in my face... an
expensive hospital bill, missed work (and or job loss), possible permanent pains/damages
(eyeball loss? mobility loss?), and more.

 Just because it has not happened yet, does not mean it could never happen.
 

If you could wipe the floor with the MMA guys you seem to like to belittle, you'd hop in the octagon and make bank. You could donate the money to a good cause and have confirmation of your technique and open a dojo (or what ever you wanna call it). I say that just in case you try to play the "I wouldn't do it for fame and money" card

 Firstly, MMA fighters dont make nearly as much money as you think.  Half of what they do get
probably goes to expenses, as well as to repair their damages, and try to keep them afloat
after they are forced to retire.  I wouldnt be surprised if half these guys are under the most
seedy contracts you have ever imagined.   

 If I really wanted to make big money in fighting, Id probably have to go Underground.

 Next, I do not believe in Sport fighting.  It trains a person to react completely wrong in many cases,
for a real situation.   MMA is filled with rules which make it safer, but ruins the realities of combat.
 I also do not enjoy hurting people "on purpose" (nor do I need my Ego Boosted),
and I find it pathetic to see a grown fighter sitting on top of a guy to hit him.  That a Gutless move.

 I could spend way too much time talking about the pitfalls of sport fighting..  but Ill stop there.

 As for proving the Tech...  Its already in use and proven to those who choose to get a demo,
or develop it themselves.   Lee plastered it all over, yet for the most part, only people hit by it
became believers.  Which makes sense, because as Ive said, you need to feel it, cause you cant
See it.  There are a ton of Wing Chun artists out there, many of which can do decent fajin,
as well as some of the Taichi guys, and even JKD.   The degree of the power released, and the
shorter distances, would show just how well the Fajin was developed.  Not all artists who know
the basics of fajin, can do it in an extremely strong way.

 If and when "I" choose to display the tech in a way that Masses can understand... It will be
even more widely spread... and sport arts will be Forced to learn more advanced
hand to hand techniques in order to survive a round more for than 4 seconds.

Almost everyone in here wants to punch PBJ, hes gonna let you, and you decline?WTF! That right there is sufficient reason to doubt you.

 LOL   Its Really Tempting man,  Trust me!   >.<   But , PBJs attitude is aggressive...
which can lead to him doing something stupid... like sending some MMA guy to my door to try to
fight me for real.   And or is expecting a full power strike all at once.  I just dont do that,
because its risky. 

 PBJ may be a  Soul-less Donkey-Butt  at times,   but you should try being in the
same room as my uncle.  Makes Jim look like Barney.  (Scary) 

Bruce Lee died 37 years ago, in almost 40 years the technique hasn't spread but you know it? Righteous! Also, he personally certified 3 instructors, so I'm pretty sure at least 3 people knew the "pure" version, and if they taught 3 each we're up to 12 and I'm sure it would have spread to more then just you and the old guy in the vids above.

 Actually, one of his students released a tiny book that teaches Only that technique.
But there is a huge difference between knowing something and actually doing it.
A lot of times, people just dont think They can do it themselves.  That only a person like
Lee was capable.  And others... well, they mean well.. but mess up the details, and or do not
train hard enough or long enough.  And still others... just are not interested in learning something
that isnt taught in their beloved religion art.

I digress this topic is stupid and the more you reply the more absurd you look. At least chad can admit he couldn't load MDF in a truck.

 I dont want to brag, nor make Chad feel bad.. but I have loaded plenty of MDF without asking
questions.      heh

 Maybe thats the point, as funny as it may seem.   There are many people, when faced with a
puzzle or challenge... that will step up and take it on with everything they have got.  And there
are others... who will immediately look for past examples, help, cheats...  etc.

 For the longest time... countless masses thought the earth was flat.  A radical concept of a
spherical world was something that could get you Hung as a witch or laughed into a mental
hospital.   Even when bits of evidence were pointed out... people still stuck to their guns,
and chanted similar mindless doubtful accusatory and mocking questions, as listed here.

I wonder who would win between Bruce Lee and Chuck Norris?

 Norris and Lee sparred a bit... and Norris to this day fully admits he was no match for Lee.

 Fun Facts:  Lee used to kick a custom made 300lb heavy bag.  Hardened Artists who have
been kicked by him, said it was getting hit by a car.

 

have any video's of bruce in a the real ring or a street fight something beside's a demo or movie I would love to see the real bruce lee in action outside of hollywood film.

  The best footage of lee is from his Demo's at  "Long Beach".   The footage of him sparring in
riot-style body armor is blurry and difficult to see..  but if you have a good martial arts eye,
you can see him shut down everything with grace, good form, lightning speed, and shear ease.

 Did you know, There was actually a Chinese Newspaper that offered up 1 million dollars to
anyone who could beat Lee in a streetfight.   Many artists tried, all Failed.
One fighter even challenged him on the movie set of enter the dragon.  Such fights lasted mere
seconds.  Supposedly a few have footage of such fights.. but nobody is releasing.

 Also know this, that even in his movies... they sped up the film, so that when played back at
normal speeds, it would slow lees moves down.  They found that when filmed at regular speed,
Lee was so fast that it was a mere blur.  You couldnt see what was happening at all.

now I know he was into arts and looked up to be a bad dude but I never seen nor heard of anything special off the hollywood camera when it comes to real fighting.

 Back then, portable filming was not as common.  It was more expensive and much more
scarce.  If you want to know what Lee really was, you will have to go by accounts of people that
dealt with him, as well as the written FACTS of his abilities and feats.  Lee trained in such a way,
that would make a typical MMA fighter "quit"  in a single half day of work.  There are very few
modern fighters who train anywhere near as extreme, frequently, and as hard as Lee did.
 
 Did you know that Lee was not interested in the arts as a kid?  He didnt take up serious
interest till he was beaten to near death by a group of thugs.  After that, you couldnt stop him
from learning and training.  After getting some skills, he started to provoke people into real
fights.  Supposedly, he got into so much trouble, that he was sent to USA.

 Lee was a fighter first and foremost.  Training for Real combat situations.  His serious skills
quickly gained him attention...  which led to him doing martial arts movies.  He also has
written about 5 books on his techniques / discoveries.
 
( 'Tao' was not written by him.  Just concepts pieced together after his passing.)

do you believe he can spring jump 30ft into a tree when gaurds come too

 I never heard Lees jump height, but umm, I believe in Gravity.     and clearly know
what Wire-Fu is. 

 I do know his flying kicks were something to behold however...and hell, he kicked Kareem
in the face.. and that dude is a Tower to Lee.

 If you want to see some insane vertical jumpers... Check out Contemporary Wushu artists.
Those guys are sick acrobats.   Tony Jaa (spelling probably wrong.  Played in "Ong Bak")
has some extreme jumping skill too.  He used to jump over elephants as a kid growing up.

I said they were some of the best in the world.

 Sorry... but they are Not even close to the best.  In fact, they are a huge disgrace to
Good fighters... let alone standing side some of the Best Fighters in this world.

 A "GOOD" fighter for example... can throw a kick fast enough that it cant be caught...
accurately, and does not get off-balance during and or landing after a kick.  The
BEST fighters, would throw a kick that would not miss its target, with power to break
anything it lands on - every time its thrown.  This is only One aspect of a high level fighter.
MMA fighters are pretty much sloppy, slow, and clumsy.   They are barely good at any one
thing.  They are like wine coolers compared to fine liquor. A Hamburg compared to a high
grade cut of beef, cooked and seasoned to perfection.

 Would you say that a fast food Hamburger Tops a tender Fillet Mignon?  Would you
say that it even compares with the best Beef dishes in the World?  All that Hypnotic
TV smust have turned your brain to mush, and your belly to jelly if you say so...

[shateredsoul]

yeah they are

[northerngames]

I think you need to go back to the first few ufc & pancrase and watch some of them as there were real martial arts blackbelts in there doing real fighting on film live in front of real people.

most of the above is total BS like the 1 million dollar offer to fight him.

most MMA fighter's get paid great win or lose as more comes through the sponsor's then the company but they all make excellent pay period.

bruce never kicked kareem in the face unless he was sitting down once again show me a non hollywood video.

I also think you meant he was so fast they had to slow the video down so it could be seen but that's really funny becuase everyone in the room must be just as lighting fast and even better timing then him to react to avoid getting hit every single time.

chuck was a corny movie actor. Sure he may have been into the martial art's and looked up to as an example through his movie fame getting thime there and his name out there but that was it same thing who did he fight again for real in a ring or on the street's before hollywood.

nobody jumped over elephants lol they would be on the new's internet youtube genius book ripley's etc. that was a movie actor again guy lol.

I dunno about your hamburger compared to lee example but how about this one:

no matter how hard you polish a terd you still end up with ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---  

[AtomSmasher]

chuck was a corny movie actor. Sure he may have been into the martial art's and looked up to as an example through his movie fame getting thime there and his name out there but that was it same thing who did he fight again for real in a ring or on the street's before hollywood.

Before he started his acting career he was the Karate Middleweight champion for 6 years, broke the record for most tournaments won in a year and was named Fighter of the year by Black Belt magazine.  He became an actor after all of this occurred, not before.

[shmokes]

A Hamburg compared to a high grade cut of beef, cooked and seasoned to perfection.

You're telling me that you think a high grade cut of beef is superior to a large, beautiful German city that happens to have one of the best red light districts in the entire world? 

[northerngames]

chuck was a corny movie actor. Sure he may have been into the martial art's and looked up to as an example through his movie fame getting thime there and his name out there but that was it same thing who did he fight again for real in a ring or on the street's before hollywood.

Before he started his acting career he was the Karate Middleweight champion for 6 years, broke the record for most tournaments won in a year and was named Fighter of the year by Black Belt magazine.  He became an actor after all of this occurred, not before.

yeah he does have a real legit fighting background and I do recall him on the cover of BBM when I was little and I definalty had that backward's

I see he won a few tournments types that lee never even entered ever.

[Malenko]

Firstly, MMA fighters dont make nearly as much money as you think.  Half of what they do get
probably goes to expenses, as well as to repair their damages, and try to keep them afloat
after they are forced to retire.  I wouldnt be surprised if half these guys are under the most
seedy contracts you have ever imagined.   
 

UFC 100, which took place at the Mandalay Bay Events Center in Las Vegas, had a total disclosed payroll of $1,790,000.

The payroll figure does not include a $400,000 that was awarded for "fight night" bonuses that were handed out after the event. Each award winner received a record $100,000.

UFC 100, the UFC's heavily promoted and long-awaited milestone event, drew a soldout crowd estimated at 11,000 and – assuming the preliminary figures hold up – the second-largest gate in UFC history with $5.1 million in ticket sales.

A few disclaimers regarding the salaries can be found below. However, it's also worth noting that fighters such as Lesnar and St. Pierre also earn a portion of the pay-per-view revenue. In fact, Lesnar reportedly will make approximately $3 million from the fight even before the majority of his sponsorship money is tallied.

The full payouts for the event included:

Jon Fitch: $90,000 (includes $45,000 win bonus)
def. Paulo Thiago: $8,000

Brock Lesnar: $400,000 (no win bonus)
def. Frank Mir: $45,000

Georges St-Pierre: $400,000 ($200,000 win bonus)
def. Thiago Alves: $60,000

Dan Henderson: $250,00 ($150,000 win bonus)
def. Michael Bisping: $150,000

Yoshihiro Akiyama: $60,000 ($20,000 win bonus)
def. Alan Belcher: $19,000

Mark Coleman: $100,000 ($50,000 win bonus)
def. Stephan Bonnar: $25,000

Jim Miller: $22,000 ($11,000 win bonus)
def. Mac Danzig: $20,000

Jon Jones: $18,000 ($9000 win bonus)
def. Jake O'Brien: $13,000

Dong Hyun Kim: $58,000 ($29,000 win bonus)
def. T.J. Grant: $5,000

Tom Lawlor: $16,000 ($8,000 win bonus)
def. C.B. Dollway: $14,000

Shannon Gugerty: $10,000 ($5,000 win bonus)
def. Matt Grice: $7,000

Now, the usual disclaimer: The figures do not include deductions for items such as insurance, licenses and taxes. Additionally, the figures do not include money paid by sponsors, which can oftentimes be a substantial portion of a fighter's income. They also do not include any other "locker room" or special bonuses the UFC oftentimes pays.




Malenko here, if I could punch and knock out lesnar and make 3 million, yeah, Id do it.

[CCM]

Also, with the top guys in the UFC, Lesnar being one of them, they also get a percentage of the PPV money.  That's how Lesnar got up to around 3 million at UFC 100.

[Xiaou2]

bruce never kicked kareem in the face unless he was sitting down once again show me a non hollywood video.

 I swore Ive seen a version of the film where he actually lands a standing high kick
to Kareems head.  I have to check my old LaserDisc copy.  Also have to check
the "Lost Footage".   Still, Lee Does kick Kareem several times. Usually after
making him bend down a bit, by kicking / punching him in the gut.

I think you need to go back to the first few ufc & pancrase and watch some of them as there were real martial arts blackbelts in there doing real fighting on film live in front of real people.

 Ive seen that pathetic crap.  A bunch of armatures fighting under rules that
favor ground fighters.  Its bad enough the ease of getting a Blackbelt in these
modern days (no offense Saint.  Everywhere is different, and so are the times)
But people who entered were usually the kind of people who fought for points...
and or were not as skilled as they would have you believe.  A Chef does not
walk into a fast-food cooking competition... where he is limited to using
sub-standard ingredients and limitations.  Such a thing would tarnish his
reputation, and strongly reduce his chances of winning anyways.  It would not
represent him, and what he has learned,  properly at all.

 But what it really boils down to... is that you can not accurately represent an
art truthfully in a mere sport setting.  Anyone with a brain should be able to
deduce this... yet it amazes me how many it seems to elude.  I feel sad for
humanity  :'(

most of the above is total BS like the 1 million dollar offer to fight him.

 Actually, Its Not.  I have a Laserdisc documentary film that shows the actual
newspaper.  The Documentary was released by Warner Bros.,  so Id be fairly
confident in the documentary's factual content.

 The fanboys of todays era always want to believe that no fighter of the past
could equal or destroy what can be seen today.  This egotistical way of
thinking... leads to self delusion.  Its why you dont actually pick up a book
and find out the truths.  You simply dont want to know, and dont want to
believe.

 Lee was an Excellent fighter.  But, Id be willing to bet, that there
were far better fighters back several hundreds to thousands of years ago.
Back then, they had the time to devote entire lifetimes to martial development...
And, they often needed to use it on a regular basis.

I also think you meant he was so fast they had to slow the video down so it could be seen but that's really funny becuase everyone in the room must be just as lighting fast and even better timing then him to react to avoid getting hit every single time.

 No.  When a camera is Recording (Filming), it is usually at 24 frames per second.
To make Lee appear to be moving slower... They had to speed up the reels, so
that it was something like 35 frames per second.  When they played back the
film at NORMAL speed, the extra frames made the film Longer... thus Slower than
real life speed.

 Its easy to forgive a person for being ignorant of details... But its quite another,
to forgive a person who tries to correct you about a subject he has No
advanced knowledge of.   Its just Amazingly pathetic and purely infantile.

 As for the others... If you have ever seen a Lee film, you would know that
almost all the people he fights take a hit, and do not get to react.  The few
who Do react, have been trained by Lee.  Just as seen in the Norris-Lee fight,
where Norris is seen using fast wing-chun style hand traps & redirects.

 And Yes, many artists can be fast.  Especially when directed in a trained
sequence.  However, Lee, besides being naturally quick, had the martial skill to be
able to be fast under Live fighting conditions.

Sure he may have been into the martial art's and looked up to as an example through his movie fame getting thime there and his name out there but that was it same thing who did he fight again for real in a ring or on the street's before hollywood.

     Man, you really shoved your foot in your mouth!   When you dont do your homework, you FAIL.

nobody jumped over elephants lol they would be on the new's internet youtube genius book ripley's etc. that was a movie actor again guy lol.

 On Jaa's Official Website Bios:

 " As a child Panom raised elephants and each day would leap up onto the backs of two baby elephants, Flower and Leaf, and did so every day for many years; as the elephants grew so did his jumping abilities. "
 
 Ok, so maybe not completely Over them.  But fairly accurate. Anyone seeing
Jaa jump and or jump kick, can immediately know the man has trained seriously.

no matter how hard you polish a terd you still end up with ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---  

 I would have to agree.  Yes, you are a Turd.

Edit:

[Malenko]

youre replies are too verbose, which is why no one reads all that.

[northerngames]

 Ive seen that pathetic crap.  A bunch of armatures fighting under rules that
favor ground fighters.  Its bad enough the ease of getting a Blackbelt in these
modern days (no offense Saint.  Everywhere is different, and so are the times)
But people who entered were usually the kind of people who fought for points...
and or were not as skilled as they would have you believe.  A Chef does not
walk into a fast-food cooking competition... where he is limited to using
sub-standard ingredients and limitations.  Such a thing would tarnish his
reputation, and strongly reduce his chances of winning anyways.  It would not
represent him, and what he has learned,  properly at all.

you have that backwards how do you figure the ground fighter's are favored when the majority of illegal blows are on ground but are still legal blow's while standing..

your allowed more strike's standing then on the ground your knee's and elbow's are limited on the ground with rules where there still perfectly legal while standing.

that's why some of the gracie's left ufc & mma becuase they banned alot of their move's like the diggin in the oppenents kidney's with their heels while on the bottom to get the top man off or wiggle into something they can work with position wise.

they also banned the downed elbow on the ground and shot's to the back of the head however you can still do a downed elbow while standing though.
   
stand up there is no back of the head blows no biting no eye gouging and no kicking in the nuts or choking with the thumbs other then that everything goes and those same exact rules still apply to the ground fighter also but there is still alot more rules for illegal blows on the ground that are allowed while staning up.

if anything the standup fighter's have less rule's to go by a long shot.

as for the hollywood pictures that's hollywood for ya.  Who's to say just out of frame on the right is a trampoline or ledge or perhaps there was one in that actual frame but was editied & removed to make it look like he was 7 feet in the air just like when he leaped up 30ft in the tree when the gaurds come near him in enter the dragon "THE MOVIE".

I could jump on a baby elephant's back also if I had one big deal.

edit - fixed quote tag

[Xiaou2]

you have that backwards how do you figure the ground fighter's are favored when the majority of illegal blows are on ground but are still legal blow's while standing..

  The initial  UFC  thing was set up to favor ground fighters, and make them
Look superior.  Most standup fighters were not prepared for a ground fight...because
in reality... the ground is the WORST place you want to be in Real fight.  

 If you even survive the sharp pavement and gravel... You have to realize that
while you are messing with the guy - others may be running in with a beer
bottle to your head, or worse... a weapon.

 It also takes far more skill to remain standing unharmed in a fight, than it does
to push a person to the ground.   And being that the ground fighters knew that it
was a surprise, as well as many fighters not having the ability to disable them
properly... is just a mess.  A false victory, and an utter Disgracie.

 In fact, the typical entry method was one of extreme danger to the person
entering.  In a real fight... trying to dive in on someone could get you permanently
crippled.  And when on the ground, Half of what those guys do is Ludicrous.
The first thing I might do, is to grab the guys berries and squeeze till he pops off
me.  Yet, you watch the fighters in 69 positions unharmed... claiming that typical
traditional martial artists are crap!?!  You cant make up rules that dont apply
to real martial protection, and call yourself the ULTIMATE FIGHTER!

 Real Fighters train for Real events.  These are the men you Dont want to hit you,
and dont want to mess with.  They are the ones you hire as body guards.
Not some sterioded MMA guy who can barely handle One fighter... let alone
multiples.  Heck, they can barely throw a technique without falling down.

your allowed more strike's standing then on the ground your knee's and elbow's are limited on the ground with rules where there still perfectly legal while standing.

 Until when?  When the fighters actually learn how to fight well?!  Trust me,
if that day ever happens... more and more rules will be put in place.  

 Theoretically, IF I had decided to enter, started Knocking out every fighter
in 2 seconds... they would lose their ratings.  It wouldnt be long before the other
fighters learned Fajin to keep up... and then every fighter would be unleashing
massive damages.  They would have to make the gloves huge and super-absorbing
to limit the damages... and further degrade the combat to a kickboxing level.

 The thing is... Somehow people actually believe these guys are advancing
the science of combat!  Its unbelievable.  They are barely understanding of even
the Basics of things created thousands of years ago... and are not ever mastering
them whatsoever.  They are pretty much a disgrace to the arts...  and
frankly, they are a danger to people losing the ability to Really know how to
protect themselves.

that's why some of the gracie's left ufc & mma becuase they banned alot of their move's like the diggin in the oppenents kidney's with their heels while on the bottom to get the top man off or wiggle into something they can work with position wise.

 The gracies are pretty much egotistical lowlife dirtbags.  Its not surprising
that when their magic show was revealed, they ran for cover.

 But the mess that is mostly their fault, is now something that they cant even
tolerate.  That is Hilarious!  

stand up there is no back of the head blows no biting no eye gouging and no kicking in the nuts or choking with the thumbs other then that everything goes

 Actually, technically, there are a LOT more rules than you listed.  Small joint manipulations spring to mind.  But there is much more.  AND if there were really
good fighters in there... that list would grow even larger.  

as for the hollywood pictures that's hollywood for ya.  Who's to say just out of frame on the right is a trampoline or ledge or perhaps there was one in that actual frame but was editied & removed to make it look like he was 7 feet in the air just like when he leaped up 30ft in the tree when the gaurds come near him in enter the dragon "THE MOVIE".

 I dont recall him jumping UP 30ft.  Maybe Down 30ft.  Ill have to look it over.

 I can post videos of Shaolin and Wushu guys doing the same thing, without
trampolines.  With digging, you can find out if Lees flying kick and high kick
were real.  There were plenty of witnesses.

 Its not to say that those moves were things you should use in real combat.
In fact, they are dangerous.  However, in general, Lee was a person who wanted
to show exactly what was possible, and what he could get away with.

 Point being... Lee had not only developed extreme levels of power in his
techniques... But he also had the skills, muscles, flexibility... to do the most
extreme and acrobatic of movements.  Todays TV fighters barely can kick...
and Lee could not only kick with enough power to end a fight... but also
to do things in the pics posted.

I could jump on a baby elephant's back also if I had one big deal.

 If you had read it correctly, the elephants grew to adult height as he grew from
child to man.  Meaning, he could land a jump onto a full grown elephant.

[DillonFoulds]

no matter how hard you polish a terd you still end up with ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---

MythBusters polished dung.

[Xiaou2]

 

 

 

 

[northerngames]

I don't recall tai clench's on any guy's nuts in any martial art's tournments either.

that's like saying you grab my nuts and I can bite your cheek off type thing or poke your eye.

smalle lock's like the toe lock tank abbott got beat by recently are still allowed 

[Xiaou2]

 We were talking the Best Fighters in the World.   And that is my point.
The best fighters are trained to both attack vitals, as well as defend against them.

 MMA or pretty much any Sport fighter, does Not have to worry about such attacks,
so can Not be considered anywhere near a  "Best Fighter".

 Half the things they do in the MMA ring, would get you killed on the real streets...
yet they get away with it.. and then have the audacity to diss traditional arts.
Its a huge joke.

 Btw - Im surprised they allowed the toe lock.  They dont allow finger breaks...
but hey... these guys cant even block a punch let alone preform captures and
joint destruction.
 

[hypernova]

and not an immediate full mass dump.

I always love a good dump.

I feel lighter and faster afterwards.

[northerngames]

ahh so they do allow finger break's in karate or martail arts tournments then right and if not what and why was that even mentioned as I am sure brock and many others can break finger if it were allowed standing or on the ground.

I know there are more rule's then what I listed as I am not a ufc or mma official but i do know for a fact more rules apply to ground move's then standing up.

jumping over some guy if even possible is not going to win a fight either I would laugh ---my bottom--- off seeing some guy diving and rolling all over the ring or cage like a fish out water or a cat when they get spooked and caught of guard and they do that crazy leap for no reason instead of using traditional footwork and moving around like most fighter's do.

more then likely his oppenent would stand their with his hand's on his hip's wondering what the hell this other guy is doing and to let him know when he's ready to fight.

there's also an old saying that everyone has a plan going into a fight but that all change's soon as you get hit hard.

I have seen alot of modern fighter's get rocked and keep going where I am not to sure about these guys that spend their time jumping around on a mat as training and as bruce once said boards don't hit back. I say neither does mat's or bag's...

[danny_galaga]

This is STILL going? Geez.

I don't agree with Xiaou about many things, but in fighting he probably knows his stuff. I accept a lot of what he is saying about fighting, except maybe that baby elephant thing, there is a corresponding story about Johnny Weisemuller gaining his strength by lifting a calf up every day when he was young. He kept going until it was a bull, where he was still able to lift it. Which seems rather unlikely...

I've never actually been in a fight. I think i've missed out on an important part of growing up  

I think i found the right room for this argument

[Xiaou2]

ahh so they do allow finger break's in karate or martail arts tournments then right and if not what and why was that even mentioned as I am sure brock and many others can break finger if it were allowed standing or on the ground.

 I do NOT support Sport fighting.  I do NOT support Tournaments.  I DO SUPPORT
realistic Combat Training.

 It was brought up, because the UFC/MMA fighters were said to be the
"Best Fighters in the World".  Its just one more reason they are Not.

jumping over some guy if even possible is not going to win a fight either I would laugh ---my bottom--- off seeing some guy diving and rolling all over the ring or cage like a fish out water or a cat when they get spooked and caught of guard and they do that crazy leap for no reason instead of using traditional footwork and moving around like most fighter's do.

 LOL.  Man, you are getting your arguments all mixed up.   I merely put up
Acrobatics to show that Lee (and others) are capable of extreme abilities.
This Does show that their athleticism is thus superior... which actually Does in fact
lead to them having better control and accuracy in a fight.  However, that does
not mean Tony Jaa is going to do well in a real fight.  The training is completely
different.

there's also an old saying that everyone has a plan going into a fight but that all change's soon as you get hit hard.

 Id laugh in that persons face that said that.  A True fighter can not go into a
fight with a Plan.  A fight is Dynamic.  It changes constantly.  A good fighter
adapts to every situation as its happening.  If you try to make an opponent do
something... or Try to make a certain move work on them, your gona end up
rocked out... counting sheep.

 Getting hit does not change One thing.  You man up, suffer through it, and
return to good form.  Its the inexperienced that duck and cower after getting hit
hard, and fall into poor structural form.  This only makes it worse for them.. and
they end up getting hit twice as often.

I have seen alot of modern fighter's get rocked and keep going where I am not to sure about these guys that spend their time jumping around on a mat as training and as bruce once said boards don't hit back. I say neither does mat's or bag's...

 Umm..  I have no idea what you are arguing about now.

 A good artists trains all aspects of fighting.  You need just as much time hitting
hard wall-bags as you do live targets.  People are not made of jello, and your
hand isnt always going to have a nice soft glove on when something goes down.

 You can hit kick a bag and punch a sandbag much harder than a live opponent.
As if you did punch that hard on a training partner... you would need a spare room
to store all the bodies afterwords.  Thats why you train light to med. power / speed
on a live opp, and Heavy force on the targets. (and or speed too, depending
on the kind of training you are doing)

 As for Jaa, I have not dug deep enough to really confirm his total jump height.
However, watching Ongbak makes one thing this guy probably can do it.

 Btw - Thanks danny_galaga.
(and that pic scares me for some reason  hehe)

I've never actually been in a fight. I think i've missed out on an important part of growing up

 You didnt miss much.  Its usually some pre high school roll in the dirt. Nobody
really gets that hurt.  Its more of an ego bruising event.

 However, sparring is probably the closest thing you get to a real combat situation,
and hey, there is always a martial arts class around the corner     Its not for
everyone... but if you can get past the initial stage where getting hit ceases to
really bother you  (takes a while to go from a marshmallow body to "Terminator")...
then the experience is just awesome.  There is little that gets your adrenalin
pumping like the challenge and stresses of combat.

[saint]

Meh, take this outside (i.e. off the forum)

[eds1275]

Congratulations on getting your black belt. I'm a master at tiger style kung fu, and was thrilled when I became one. You must feel honoured and proud of yourself - it's a lot of work and discipline, and in this crazy world it's unbelievable to find the time to devote to something like this.   

[Malenko]

Congratulations on getting your black belt. I'm a master at tiger style kung fu, and was thrilled when I became one. You must feel honoured and proud of yourself - it's a lot of work and discipline, and in this crazy world it's unbelievable to find the time to devote to something like this.   

you wanna post this in the OTHER black belt thread.

[CCM]

[Xiaou2]

Sad Indeed.

 Firstly, the whole thing is more than likely staged.  Cause If this guy is for real,
then Im scared for this world.

 The decision to keep the guy out is well warranted.  If you cant throw a MT kick
without landing on your butt... then you probably have never had to defend
against one... and are not well equipped to fight against such persons yet.

 Also, being that he was so uncoordinated shows he lacks proper balance,
flexibility, awareness, and structure... to be a decent fighter.

 The attitude displayed was pure BS.  No person of any real skill level would
be such a crybaby.  Nor would want to even participate in a cheezy sport event...
let alone beg to get entrance.

 If it were me, and I were so inclined to make a point, I would have challenged
the dude personally... stating that if I Knocked him out, I would be instated.

 They were quick to silence the dude when he quipped up, but never once
schooled him... which I find interesting.  As usually, these guys are itching to
do just that.

 
 Anyone can pull up any style, and find some lackie with a big mouth that
cant back it up with proper execution and technique.  You can see it immediately
with the way they move.
(Especially if you are in that style, and know the correct ways)

 But individuals do not matter.  Its the tools and science that Do matter.

 A $100 paint brush isnt going to produce master artwork for everyone.  It
takes years of hard earned efforts to gain that mastery.  However, if you
give a professional a crap brush... his works will suffer in comparison.  Same

 You can give a guy a plain old sponge... and they can end up cranking out
paintings which drop jaws.  But, give that same guy a real nice brush... and
he will raise to a whole new level of output.


Realistic Qualifications:

1) Do you know it (style/science)?  How Well?

2) How much effort invested? (Actual total training/sparring Hours, not yrs as an
artist)

3) Perfected all techniques? (Instant reactions: no need to 'think'?. Full power,full speed, perfect accuracy - every time?)
  
4) Tested all techs against:  

  a) Various other styles against high belt/level fighters?
  b) against people stronger / taller / longer reach  than you?
  c) against people faster than you?
  d) at full speed, decent to heavy power?

5) Body conditioned to take heavy strikes in all areas of the body?
6) Able to control the mind to free of thoughts and emotions?
7) Willpower, to endure past pains and difficulties?
8 ) Proper Breathing techniques
9) Proper power deliver techniques (reducing almost all losses)
10) In decent physical shape? (required mostly for Sport interaction)


 As Ive said before, I could take any typical MMA guy, and make him 10 times
as good as he currently is in about a year of Wing Chun training.

 Wing Chun was originally developed to take down an entire army of highly
trained fighters.  It was most likely taught to people who were already
good/great fighters. Meaning, they didnt have to learn the basics..  And, the
fighters trained a lot 'out of class'.   Todays modern Wing Chun in many places
has not caught on to these facts, and or does not care about the students
potentials. There are some too, that really are brainwashed, and perpetuate
illusion over substance.  Real technique, but nothing sound to rest it upon.

 This does not change the power and advantages found in the Wing Chun systems.
Hence why many fighters have turned to it, and never looked back.

 The post above shows the typical childish ignorance of a low level fighter who
is offended by his own lackings.  Instead of learning what makes the style special,
which may in fact make you a better fighter... You simple decide to close off
your mind and stay stagnant.  A Defeatist Attitude.

 Personally, Ive always had a Positive attitude.  I have managed to learn, and
even teach myself things from other arts than the original art that I started out
with.  And I continue to learn more and more all the time.  Im not satisfied
with being good at one One small window of technique... and I believe in
researching and testing whatever may help me become even more skilled.

 Im not threatened or Jealous, so I dont need to post insults and childish
drivel.  I will admit I too was a bit stubborn in my own past... but, Ive long since
become wiser to the realities of the arts which I, at one time, least
understood.

 I suggest you re-access your own attitude...
And expand your depth of skill and knowledge in the process.

[Xiaou2]

I just thought Id mention...

 Tonight I decided to go to the mall... and hit up the bookcenter.  I found a
relatively new book on Lee, called "Bruce Lee Conversations"   (nov 09)

 http://www.amazon.com/Bruce-Lee-Conversations-Fiaz-Rafiq/dp/0955264898/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1269490358&sr=1-1

 I must have spent 3hrs pouring thru the thing    heh

 Whats cool about this book, is that its firsthand accounts from people who
were there training and playing with Lee.  From his students, actors, friends..etc.

 There were at least 3 personal accounts which verified a fight he had against a
5th degree blackbelt in Karate, in which he beat him in less than 11 seconds.
(About 9 of which were spent pummeling the guy - till Lee was Asked to stop)

 Another highlight, was that I got to see a picture of the heavy kick bag Lee
trained on.  Its 3.5 ft diameter, and was believed to weigh about 300lbs...
which is probably one big reason why lee could kick so damn hard.

 There were validations from his students, that do tell the truth about his
power punch.  Outright states that his 1" demo was used as a push,  and
that in reality, the real version barely moves a person.  Something Ive known
and found myself... Its nice to see one who trained under lee verify it in print.

 There were many things I didnt know... but suspected.  Turns out that while
he did teach many people... he held back things, and held back certain things
to certain people.  Turns out he didnt want to train people to be able to defeat
him.  Very interesting... though a little sad.  Some students realized it, and eventually left to do their own things.

 I found it funny as hell to read Frasier's commentary.  He's got a massive ego,
and couldnt stop talking about how good he was, and how many fights he
won.  Never really fought lee, and yet thinks lee wasnt all that tough.  This
dude had no real clue.  Lee never fought him, cause a guy like this wouldnt
stop till he was in the grave.  His ego simply wouldnt allow it.  He said
that he messed up by not talking part in Lees offer to be in the movies...
(cause he didnt want to be seen losing on film) Yet, he passed the blame
off to people who advised him, rather than simply admitting it was really
his Ego which caused his major losses.

[polaris]

I met bruce lee once and kicked the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- out of him in 8 seconds flat.

[danny_galaga]

This thread is useless without

[Cakemeister]

Everybody have fun tonight!
Everybody Wing Chun tonight!

[northerngames]

rampage the mma fighter supposedly has the hardest recorded punch following tyson then foreman and these were officially recorded but I cannot find the official paperwork yet but getting the same search results.

I did not see any wing chun or fajin in there for hardest punch's or any mention of them although there is a guy that does one of the two that hold's the record for the most punch's in a set time frame for 1 minute but that dont make power punch's like above by any means.

 

[Xiaou2]

 Just because there has not been measurements made, does not mean it
does not exist, and that it does not succeed the most common practiced ways. 

 You know, there are scientists who recently discovered evidence of an
ancient civilization who made a certain mixture of ingredients, and was able
to grow massive luscious food crops, on the desert sands.

 They are Still researching this mixture, as to this date, nobody has figured
out how to duplicate it.

 This is an example of your whit.  In your mind... if someone told you that there
was a way to grow entire fields of crops in the desert, you may have immediately
pointed to all the past attempts that failed... and citing no evidence (that
you knew about), immediately claimed it to be a lie and a joke.

 This mixture was not really a secret back then... however, it was lost to time..
and even though we are hundreds or more years beyond the date... we lack
the knowledge to replicate it.   Meaning, just because we are more advance,
does not mean the past holds no (or MORE) value.  Nor does it mean we know
and understand everything.

 While the crop mixture probably was not a secret to the people who made and
used it... (unless only certain people were privy to it...)  Fajin, Dim Mak, and
other such technologies were secretive, because back in those days, there
were no guns, wilderness was plenty, and more times than not... you had
to rely on yourself to defend you, your loved ones, and your valuables.

 Also, it was still kept a secret to many, merely as an Advantage over others.
Hence, if they tried try to pull rank and or fight seriously, you could disable
them.  Up until like the 1960s, If you challenged the master of a Chinese martial
arts school, he would have to give his school and students over to you, if you
won.  If he didnt accept the challenge, he might lose credibility, and public
humiliation... The Chinese back then placed a Lot of value on public appearances,
and couldnt stand to look bad / humiliated.

 Fajin may not have been measured with devices, but ya know, Its not
surprising really... considering that most scientists care less about human
power output... and the ones that do... are pretty much clueless.  Not to
mention, as stated above, that most people doing Fajin in the recent past,
have kept it a secret.

 Still there plenty of credible personal accounts, and places where you can
experience it for yourself.  And if you happen to have the equipment, maybe you
can ask for a reading.
 
 Just remember how to do the math properly.  IE: 200 lbs  force dumped in
one-hundredth of a second, is far more damaging than 500 lbs in 1 second.

 Then add in how much the person weighs, the distance they started from,
and how fast the strike traveled at.

 Remember, even the strongest puncher in the world, wont do any damage if
the guy cant hit you... and the more distance it takes to generate all that power,
means its easier to evade / deflect / redirect.   

 A Jab coming from the lead hand
however, can be very easy to land at close fighting range... and if
that jab has even the power of a pro boxers cross, you are going to have a
huge advantage in landing percentages alone.

 Most fighters, when close, are limited in the power they can generate... so
they are forced to grapple, throw, and try to get to the ground.  The rest play
in and out strategies... hoping that they wont get caught when they try to
enter close.  Yet, to be able to take someone out of commission even when they
are nose to nose with you, is a skill that is a real necessity of real combat.

 Of course, without any good defensive abilities, and safe ways to enter a
fighters space... it wont matter much what kind of power you have.

 Whenever you see a MMA fight, any standup is pretty much two fighters
trading blows.  Very rarely does either man have a good defense besides
ducking and moving... which does not work well at close range.

[shateredsoul]

link us to that article.. surely if this is true it would be in a peer reviewed research journal... this is big news

[lilshawn]

The Ultimate Battle
 
 
Scene 1:   

Dark smoke fills the scene and pump up music slowly gets louder.  The audience sees a ninja and his girlfriend eating at a super expensive restaurant.  The girlfriend is so hot that steam is coming out of her mouth or hair.  Some old idiot is sitting by the couple.  The idiot is giving the girlfriend "the eye" and popping like 16 boners.  But the ninja sees the boners and the music really pumps up.  The audience knows this guy is dead meat for sure.  But out of nowhere, the old idiot pulls off his jacket to show that he is a pirate with lasers and everything.  The ninja is like yeah right who cares and then pops the biggest boner ever, bigger than the biggest blackest boner alive.  The ninja's boner smashes the entire restaurant.  Every single one of the pirate's boners explodes while making a whistling sound.  The ninja looks back at his girlfriend.  She smiles and they pork

bwah hahahaha haha hah  i think i peed

[Hoopz]

link us to that article.. surely if this is true it would be in a peer reviewed research journal... this is big news

You're not allowed to ask for sources.  That's rule #1 of dealing with X.

Kinda like his ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- Star Wars yoke that never worked.   

[Xiaou2]

 
 I saw it recently on one of those history / discovery channels on HDTV.
I think it also popped up on yahoo news as well.

 I didnt copy the name of the stuff, not realizing I would have to justify the
Zombie courts of Idiocy.

 Ill try to web search it regardless.  It is really awesome news actually...
IF they can figure out how to reproduce it that is...

[Malenko]

is this thread still going? can we post hell it already?

[DillonFoulds]

My thoughts exactly. I regret having posted in here previously. Xiaou2 doesn't know when he's being trolled, and it appears even after saint said take it off the forums, people continue to troll.

Xiaou, they're yanking you along. You'd be best to ignore this thread. All you're doing is giving the trolls food, and they're just going to use it to discredit you in other sections/threads of the forums. It's just what trolls do.

I guess that's the nature of the internet, though. Would be nice to see this thread locked, at the very least.

[Xiaou2]

Terra Preta

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_preta

also known as Biochar

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/business/ancient-soil-technique-offers-hope-to-store-carbon-underground_100132315.html


 Btw - I found a really cool Interview with Bob Wall on Lee:

http://www.cityonfire.com/features/bobwall/

[danny_galaga]

Terra Preta

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_preta

also known as Biochar

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/business/ancient-soil-technique-offers-hope-to-store-carbon-underground_100132315.html

Interesting stuff. Although that article says that it is basically a variation on 'slash and burn'. And the Amazon could hardly be considered a desert 

[northerngames]

I would not consider getting something to grow in the amazon some old secret either.

[Xiaou2]

 Could have sworn the doc said desert... but I guess I wasnt paying enough
attention at the time.  It was running in the background while I was doing pc
work.

 Also:

"Terra preta sites are also known in other South American areas (Ecuador, Peru, Guyana),[15] in West Africa (Benin, Liberia), and on the South African savannas[3]. Similar soil was found in late Roman Britain — see dark earth."

 Anyways, according to whats said, is that the sheer number of population
that was witnessed by the elder explorers, is said to be impossible
,by modern scientists, to feed using standard agricultural methodologies in
that area.  The Terra Pretta was the only thing that made it possible to
grow so much food in such infertile soils, and not have the soils destroyed
in a short time period.

 The Secret, is not only in the results, which rival current soil and fertalizer
methods, but also its production.  If you Read and understood the article in
its entirety, you would have realized this and more...  But I have this feeling
you have the mind and attention span of a child, and so this stuff is way
beyond your comprehension.

 There are plenty of people much smarter than you interested in this
discovery.  Wiki list about 4 universities and 3 companies currently working
to discover its secrets.

 And this is far from the only technological secret that has been lost to history,
that rivals some current tech we have today.

[shmokes]

you have the mind and attention span of a child, and so this stuff is way
beyond your comprehension.

 There are plenty of people much smarter than you interested in this
discovery. 

Xiaou, I love that you're the one insulting people's intelligence after claiming that there was an ancient recipe for growing crops in desert sands only to provide the links to enriching soil with charcoal.  You're right.  Enriching soil is neat.  It's also a far cry from

an ancient civilization who made a certain mixture of ingredients, and was able
to grow massive luscious food crops, on the desert sands.

[Xiaou2]

There is a Huge difference between getting a detail wrong, than in actual
thought processes, logic, reasoning, and attitude.

 And no, there is not too much difference:

 an ancient civilization who made a certain mixture of ingredients, and was able
to grow massive luscious food crops, in a soil depleting environment.

 Without the mixture, their crops would have failed in a short time, and
when was working, never would have been able to grow the amount of crops/food
that they did manage to grow with the mixture.

 Also, the mixture is more than simply charcole... else there would be no need
for 4 universities and 3 companies working to figure it out.
 
 It is no Surprise that competent thinking is beyond you as well.

[shmokes]

 It is no Surprise that competent thinking is beyond you as well.

Xiaou, you should take a sample LSAT exam (law school admission test).  Unlike most exams of this sort you don't need any specialized knowledge.  It tests logical reasoning (2 sections), analytical reasoning and reading comprehension.  It's actually sort of a fun test -- like taking those online IQ tests, only much more rigorous and well designed.  You can get a free sample exam here:  http://www.lsac.org/pdfs/test.pdf.  Remember, no cheating.  Exactly 35 minutes per section.  Since the LSAT requires no specialized knowledge, time is the only thing keeping you from a perfect score.  Almost anybody could get a perfect score given enough time since the answers are contained within each question.

Who knows . . . maybe you'll realize that you're perfectly suited to law school.  Let me know how well you do.  I'm curious to know how much more competent a thinker you are than me.

Edit: Fixed link

[patrickl]

I'm afraid we are no match for the mystical powers/imagination of X

[danny_galaga]

 It is no Surprise that competent thinking is beyond you as well.

Xiaou, you should take a sample LSAT exam (law school admission test).  Unlike most exams of this sort you don't need any specialized knowledge.  It tests logical reasoning (2 sections), analytical reasoning and reading comprehension.  It's actually sort of a fun test -- like taking those online IQ tests, only much more rigorous and well designed.  You can get a free sample exam here:  http://www.lsac.org/pdfs/test.pdf.  Remember, no cheating.  Exactly 35 minutes per section.  Since the LSAT requires no specialized knowledge, time is the only thing keeping you from a perfect score.  Almost anybody could get a perfect score given enough time since the answers are contained within each question.

Who knows . . . maybe you'll realize that you're perfectly suited to law school.  Let me know how well you do.  I'm curious to know how much more competent a thinker you are than me.

link no work. Yo got my curiosity. I wanna give it a go!

[ammitz]

 http://www.lsac.org/pdfs/test.pdf

without the last dot

[HaRuMaN]

Oh great, why don't we just drag out our SAT scores, too?   

Ok.  You first.   

[shmokes]

Oh great, why don't we just drag out our SAT scores, too?   

I went through most of the graduate school entrance exams (GMAT, GRE, LSAT) and got the same percentile on all of them +/- 5 points.  The slants were all a little different but they all more or less peg you the same.

The other exams test specific knowledge, such as how well you know algebra.  The LSAT isn't concerned with knowledge.  It just tests your thinking skills.  Like I said, the answer to EVERY question is provided within the question itself.  Outside knowledge won't help you at all.  A person 30 years out of college can take the LSAT and there won't be a single time when he looks at something and says, "Hmm . . . I'm sure I used to know this."  The closest thing you get on the LSAT is the essay (because it requires a knowledge of grammar, etc.) but the essay isn't even graded.  It doesn't affect your score.

[shmokes]

They unquestionably cannot be trusted.     You'll never find a group of people with a larger concentration of type A, ultracompetitive people who will do anything to win.  There are lots of lovely people here in law school.  I have lots of really good friends.  But I've never in my life known a group of people with such a large proportion of whom I dislike.  And I mean dislike in a fundamental way . . . as in, "You are a crappy human being," dislike. 

It's kind of weird.  In terms of ethical behavior, there is not a more regulated profession in existence.  We take ethics VERY seriously.  But because of the type of people disproportionately attracted to the law, there is not another profession that so badly needs it.

[shmokes]

Also, I'm not saying that any of those other tests are inferior to the LSAT, or will produce substantially different scores.  I'm just saying that they are not as relevant to this discussion.  For that matter, I may even be wrong about that.  Maybe any of them would be just as accessible as the LSAT in terms of prerequisite knowledge.  So what?
 

[Xiaou2]

 Not sure I want to waste 30+ min doing that, but maybe later.
 
 I recall in my old school days getting called to the principles office...
He thought I was being lazy, because I placed so high on the
reading comprehension section of the tests.

 I was never that good in school.  Didnt care, slow learner, bad memory...
just barely passed... so I was shocked to hear such a comment.

 I was also amazed when I was taking that part of the test, at how
easy it was.   I mean, as you said... they outright give you the answer.

 I guess when I think about it... I had one other such experience.
Always hated history class.  Boring, couldnt remember the dates,
couldnt care less.  Nearly failing the class.   A substitute comes in..
has some actual passion. Starts asking "Theoretical" style questions
about what the people in that time may have been thinking, and feeling...
 And it became interesting.   I answered a lot of those kinds of questions
easily and happily. 

 The guy came to me after class and said I should go into
history. Said I would be good.  I told him I was basically failing the class...
but he didnt seem to be phased by it.  Was impressed with how I
thought about and reasoned things out.  If only I had more permanent
teachers like him, I would have been so much better off today.

 In the school I attended, many of the teachers there were just
there for the paycheck.  No passion in the fields they were in, and
couldnt teach very well either.   Then again... most of school is not meant
to test your thinking (shocking ehh?!)... You simply have to Remember
things, and repeat them back.  And people wonder why we need a zillion
warning tags all over things...  lol
 

 The written laws are filled with injustices.  Defending it at times, is
just about immoral as it gets.  The only thing more immoral is probably
the people behind & making of laws.    heh

[shmokes]

Not sure I want to waste 30+ min doing that, but maybe later.
 

Just so you know . . . it's 35 min per section, four sections.  So you will be wasting 2+ hours.  

Buuuuuuuut . . . it really is kind of a fun test, in the same way those online IQ tests are sort of fun or how Sudoku is fun.  Each question is a sort of game (except the questions in the reading comprehension section . . . they primarily just test how well you absorb and retain information when you read it).  In fact, one of the sections is universally (other than on the test itself) referred to as "Games".  That section is a ---smurfette---.  

Here's an example (look at the clock . . . you have 7 minutes and 30 seconds to read the set-up and answer all 5 questions):

An amusement park roller coaster includes five cars, numbered 1 through 5 from front to back. Each car accommodates up to two riders, seated side by side. Six people — Tom, Gwen, Laurie, Mark, Paul and Jack — are riding the coaster at the same time.


Laurie is sharing a car.

Mark is not sharing a car and is seated immediately behind an empty car.

Tom is not sharing a car with either Gwen or Paul.

Gwen is riding in either the third or fourth car.

Question 1
Which of the following groups of riders could occupy the second car?
.
(A) Laurie only
(B) Tom and Gwen
(C) Laurie and Mark
(D) Jack and Tom
(E) Jack, Gwen, and Paul

Question 2
If Gwen is riding immediately behind Laurie's car and immediately ahead of Tom's car, all of the following must be true EXCEPT:
.
(A) Gwen is riding in the fourth car.
(B) Paul is riding in the third car.
(C) Tom is riding in the fifth car.
(D) Laurie is riding in the third car.
(E) The first car is empty.

Question 3
Which one of the following statements CANNOT be true?
.
(A) Neither Tom nor Gwen is sharing a car with another rider
(B) Neither Mark nor Jack is sharing a car with another rider.
(C) Tom is sharing a car, and Jack is sharing a car.
(D) Gwen is sharing a car, and Paul is sharing a car.
(E) Tom is sharing a car, and Gwen is sharing a car.

Question 4
If Paul is riding in the second car, how many different combinations of riders are possible for the third car?
.
(A) one
(B) two
(C) three
(D) four
(E) five

Question 5
Assume that a seventh rider is riding with Jack in the first car, but that all other rules remain unchanged. Which of the following is a complete and accurate list of the riders who might be riding in the fifth car?
.
(A) Mark
(B) Gwen, Paul
(C) Tom, Laurie, Paul
(D) Tom, Laurie, Mark
(E) Tom, Paul, Laurie, Mark

Answers:

Question 1: D
Question 2: B
Question 3: A
Question 4: C
Question 5: D


edit: Fixed the time period . . . I gave you one too few minutes

[Xiaou2]

 
 Thats nothing like the reading comprehension test I remember.  Thats more of
a math / IQ test.

 Its not that I couldnt figure it out, I really dont find that kind of monotony
(work) fun.   Plus, my mind is more visual and artistic... When I read amusement
cars, I get wrapped up with picturing an actual scene, and what each persons
name listed, might look like.

 I did take an IQ test one day to see how I would do.  I was kinda surprised
actually, cause I thought I was gona be Gump level.  I did decent, tho,
Im not sure how real the test was.   Lots of geometric shapes which you had
to be able to find relationships with.

Ah well, I tested well and I'm a broke, bitter jackass so don't sweat it Xiaou2.

 This sentence makes little sense man.  Your economic and emotional content
do not really reflect level of intellect.
 
 One of my friends is bitter as hell, but I swear has a genius IQ.  His attitude
however is what defeats his potential though... and probably will end up
ruining his life.

 My uncle is worse... Hes was actually programming computers in ways
they were not designed to operate, back in the day... but instead of ending
up working for Atari/Apple... his Inflexibility, anger, poor attitudes,low
responsibility, and inibility to handle pressure... caused him to quit and
fix bowling machines instead.  Hes such a mess, that he cant go a day without
drinking half or maybe a full case of beer, every day.  His father, WAS a
genius... but drank himself to death at like age 33.  According to the stories,
he got into so many scraps due to his obnoxiousness, that he was lucky to
last that long without getting knifed or shot, in the bars he frequented.

 With me, its quite the opposite. I have very little to work with upstairs, but
my attitudes are reasonable, and so in many ways, Ive done much better in life.
At very least, Ive learned how to be 'content', (even though Im a poor and ugly
sob.     heh )  Which is far more important in life than pure mental brawn. 

 I can tell you, it wasnt easy.  When I was 6, I was so bitter, jealous, mean,
and downright evil.  I remember seeing this woman at the local diner, who was
smiling constantly.  I hated that.  I angerly and cynically spat out "Why do
you smile so much!"   She was shocked, and wasnt so happy after that bitter
bolt.  I probably didnt really smile happily (for Good reasons)  till about 6th grade...
when I finally started to break out of the dark clouds that I had created
around myself.

[shmokes]

 Thats nothing like the reading comprehension test I remember.  Thats more of
a math / IQ test.

 Its not that I couldnt figure it out, I really dont find that kind of monotony
(work) fun.   Plus, my mind is more visual and artistic... When I read amusement
cars, I get wrapped up with picturing an actual scene, and what each persons
name listed, might look like.

That's just an example of one of the three sections of the exam.  The funny thing is that that section is visual.  In fact the best way to do it is to draw a diagram (the test almost always gives everyone a name starting with a different letter so it's easy to think of them as like G, O, S, T and L or something . . . makes it easier to diagram.

One section is a reading comprehension section that is probably exactly what you expect.  You read a passage about some random topic, maybe a story about digging up dinosaur bones or a bit about Picasso's early life.  Then there are 6-8 multiple choice questions about what you just read.

The third section is logical reasoning.  There are two of these sections (I guess logical reasoning is twice as important as reading comprehension and analytical reasoning).  These questions test your ability to apply basic logic.  Examples (6 minutes to complete these 5 questions):

Question 1
People should be held accountable for their own behavior, and if holding people accountable for their own behavior entails capital punishment, then so be it. However, no person should be held accountable for behavior over which he or she had no control.
 
Which of the following is the most logical conclusion of the argument above?
 
(A) People should not be held accountable for the behavior of other people.
(B) People have control over their own behavior.
(C) People cannot control the behavior of other people.
(D) Behavior that cannot be controlled should not be punished.
(E) People have control over behavior that is subject to capital punishment.

Question 2
As any economist knows, healthy people pose less of an economic burden to society than unhealthy people. Not surprisingly, then, every dollar our state government spends on prenatal care for undocumented immigrants will save taxpayers of this state three dollars.
 
Which of the following, if true, would best explain why the statistics cited above are not surprising?
 
(A) The state's taxpayers pay for prenatal care of all immigrants.
(B) Babies born in this state to undocumented immigrant parents are entitled to infant care benefits from the state.
(C) State benefits for prenatal care serve to promote undocumented immigration.
(D) Babies whose mothers did not receive prenatal care are just as healthy as other babies.
(E) Pregnant women who do not receive prenatal care are more likely to experience health problems than other pregnant women.

Question 3
Beautiful beaches attract people, no doubt about it. Just look at this city's beautiful beaches, which are among the most overcrowded beaches in the state.
 
Which of the following exhibits a pattern of reasoning most similar to the one exhibited in the argument above?
 
(A) Moose and bear usually appear at the same drinking hole at the same time of day. Therefore, moose and bear must grow thirsty at about the same time.
(B) Children who are scolded severely tend to misbehave more often than other children. Hence if a child is not scolded severely that child is less likely to misbehave.
(C) This software program helps increase the work efficiency of its users. As a result, these users have more free time for other activities.
(D) During warm weather my dog suffers from fleas more so than during cooler weather. Therefore, fleas must thrive in a warm environment.
(E) Pesticides are known to cause anemia in some people. However, most anemic people live in regions where pesticides are not commonly used.

Question 4
Our school district should not spend its money on the new Verbal Advantage reading program. After all, our students get all the reading practice they need by studying history and science.
 
The argument above depends on which the following assumptions?
 
(A) The Verbal Advantage program would not help the students learn history and science.
(B) Other reading programs are just as effective but less expensive than the Verbal Advantage program.
(C) The Verbal Advantage program involves only reading practice.
(D) Teaching students history and science is more important than teaching them reading skills.
(E) The students can already read well enough to study history and science.

Question 5
Newspaper publishers earn their profits primarily from advertising revenue, and potential advertisers are more likely to advertise in newspapers with a wide circulation — a large number of subscribers and other readers — than with other newspapers. But the circulation of the newspaper that is currently the most profitable one in this city has steadily declined during the last two years, while the circulation of one of its competitors has steadily increased.
 
Any of the following, if true, would help explain the apparent discrepancy between the two statements above EXCEPT:
 
(A) Advertisers generally switch from the most widely circulated newspaper to another one only when the other one becomes the most widely circulated newspaper instead.
(B) Advertising rates charged by the most profitable newspaper in the city are significantly higher than those charged by its competitors.
(C) The most profitable newspaper in the city receives revenue from its subscribers as well from advertisers.
(D) The circulation of the most profitable newspaper in the city is still greater than than of any of its competitors.
(E) The number of newspapers competing viably with the most profitable newspaper in the city has increased during the last two years.

Answers:

Question 1: B
Question 2: E
Question 3: D
Question 4: C
Question 5: E

[Vanguard]

Ah well, I tested well and I'm a broke, bitter jackass so don't sweat it Xiaou2.

Must be the white man keeping you down.

[danny_galaga]

http://www.lsac.org/pdfs/test.pdf

without the last dot

 

[RobbyMac]

LOLZ this is still going?
Saint probably got his 2nd degree by now

[danny_galaga]

LOLZ this is still going?
Saint probably got his 2nd degree by now

Not just that, but he has probably mastered the 1/4" punch as well 

[shmokes]

I expect he's already sent off some applications to law school, actually.

[Vanguard]

nah, saint seems like he's a pretty moral, upstanding person.

[shmokes]

with "seems" being the operative word!

[saint]

I can fake sincerity with the best of them.

[shmokes]

Exactly