Re: I am now a blackbelt!

[Comtek]

seems every argument on these treads involve one certain guy

[shmokes]

Sorry X, you're hilarious drawings just remind me of a shampoo commercial.  Like if I see a picture I'll say, "OHHHH!!!!  I see . . . the Pro V's are flying into each strand of hair.  Amazing!"  

But your picture doesn't begin to explain why a person would not be knocked backwards.  Your "force lines" clearly indicate that the person hit should be knocked backward.  Maybe you're just not hitting very hard.  There's an explanation that makes sense!

[shateredsoul]

seriously.. does anyone read these posts anyomre?

cool video though

[AtomSmasher]

I may be a business school flunky, but I seem to recall that velocity = mass * acceleration. 

I think there's a good reason you flunked because mass * accel = force, not velocity   

[shmokes]

I'm quite sure the correct formula is timing * flex = (spread)force

[ammitz]

Now that you Might understand what is happening..  Take a look again at a True
Master of Power.

The first thought that popped into my head when I saw the video was this:

[Xiaou2]

But your picture doesn't begin to explain why a person would not be knocked backwards.  Your "force lines" clearly indicate that the person hit should be knocked backward.  Maybe you're just not hitting very hard.  There's an explanation that makes sense!

  If you Read the description, you would realize that the picture on top is a time
unit of 1/100th of a second.   After that time unit, the fist is withdrawn, rather than
continuing to push further.

 The power dump is far faster than a typical strike, and does much more damages
as a result... yet also, because of the speed of the release, the punch does not
need to continue past a certain point... and the mass it hits is effected in a completely
different way.  The force is spread out in a sphere rather than mostly forwards with
a typical strike.  The force stays inside the target, doing more damages... instead of
merely accelerating the target backwards.

Yeah, 10 trillion cell phone cameras in this world and yet no one has managed to capture the elusive death punch.

 Roll Eyes

I may be a business school flunky, but I seem to recall that velocity = mass * acceleration.  I don't care how much that little chinese guy concentrates, I'm more scared of Iron Mike.

 Firstly, a person capable of powerful Fajin isnt going to take out a person, let alone
on film.   The best you will see are demos, like the ones in the videos where the
forces are released in the air, or partial release on a human thru a padded target,
just as Ive shown Both.

 ALSO, you dont SEE that kind of power.  You have to Feel it to know it.
There are plenty of hardened experiences martial artists who have told of
someone like Bruce Lee demo-hitting them, and how bad it messed them up.
Just as there are tons of people out there visiting someone like Chen Xiaowang
for a personal demo.


 Now, a bulky person has an easier time generating massive forces, because even if they
mess up and have massive losses... there is still plenty of mass to cover it.  However,
a smaller person does not have the luxury of such losses.   Also, the larger guys are
usually much slower, and easier to evade and counter.

 Tyson used to be powerful.. yet his return to the ring?  Not the same.  Why?
Same thing Ive been talking about.  Lack of ability to concentrate power.  When he
started out... he was an extreme angry troll.  His anger level, is what made him
able to create Fajin power... because his anger caused him to tighten all his
muscles on impact 'sharply'.   This is seen in a lot of fighters... when they get really
emotional, they create KO force power.   Tyson has calmed down, and does not have
that same animal instinctual power.  His quick-twitch muscles have probably
degenerated to mere slow-power muscles.  To regain these, you need to constantly
work with fast-twitch style drills.

 Tyson also is not skilled in anything besides boxing.  A fighter like this has no
experience with things like Groin protection, knee protection, or any means of
blocking/redirection whatsoever.

 With gloves off,  A smaller faster boxer is far more dangerous than Tyson.


 If you do not understand the difference between power release in
seconds -vs- split-seconds...  then there really is no point in trying to argue with you.

 If you do not understand the concept of Unified Mass = Greater power... then
again, I cant help you.

 Its not that you are not capable of understanding... and not that I have not
described it well enough... but merely to do with ignorance and beliefs.

 I can tell you one thing...  There will be Artists / Fighters who will read what Ive
posted...  Will understand...  Will say "Wow. I never thought about it like that",
And just may start to develop the power on their own...  Just as I did, from much less
helpful "Hints", in Lees books, over 10yrs ago.

[shmokes]

The force is spread out in a sphere rather than mostly forwards with
a typical strike.

Your cartoon does not show a sphere.  It shows a half sphere.  There is force going from front to back, but none going from back to front.  Your physics simply don't work, Xiaou.  The diagonal and vertical lines may cancel each other out, keeping the victim from being shot upwards or smashed to the ground, but there is no canceling force keeping her from being propelled backwards by the punch.

[Xiaou2]

I Explained it several times as Spherical.

 The diagonal cross hatch lines are merely compressed tissue. Nothing more.

 The reason a person is not propelled backwards more than a few inches,
is due to the amount of Time.  The time unit being a maybe one
Hundredth of a second.   (As well as how the body can dissipate forces)

[Gorotsuki]

Forget all this power punch stuff.
I just call in the Megazord.

[shmokes]

I Explained it several times as Spherical.

 The diagonal cross hatch lines are merely compressed tissue. Nothing more.

 The reason a person is not propelled backwards more than a few inches,
is due to the amount of Time.  The time unit being a maybe one
Hundredth of a second.   (As well as how the body can dissipate forces)

I'm not talking about your diagonal cross hatch lines.  I'm talking about your force lines.  They radiate out 180 degrees from the collision, not 360 degrees.  And I don't give a ---fudgesicle--- whether the energy is transferred in a hundredth of a second or a billionth of a second.  The energy we're talking about is kinetic energy, not static electricity (though there likely would be a transfer of that as well).  The transfer of kinetic energy is going to force the object at rest to move in the direction it was hit unless there is some opposing force stopping it.

[polaris]

I Explained it several times as Spherical.

 The diagonal cross hatch lines are merely compressed tissue. Nothing more.

 The reason a person is not propelled backwards more than a few inches,
is due to the amount of Time.  The time unit being a maybe one
Hundredth of a second.   (As well as how the body can dissipate forces)

I'm not talking about your diagonal cross hatch lines.  I'm talking about your force lines.  They radiate out 180 degrees from the collision, not 360 degrees.  And I don't give a ---fudgesicle--- whether the energy is transferred in a hundredth of a second or a billionth of a second.  The energy we're talking about is kinetic energy, not static electricity (though there likely would be a transfer of that as well).  The transfer of kinetic energy is going to force the object at rest to move in the direction it was hit unless there is some opposing force stopping it.

yeah, but this is magic, understand now?   

[northerngames]

But your picture doesn't begin to explain why a person would not be knocked backwards.  Your "force lines" clearly indicate that the person hit should be knocked backward.  Maybe you're just not hitting very hard.  There's an explanation that makes sense!

  If you Read the description, you would realize that the picture on top is a time
unit of 1/100th of a second.   After that time unit, the fist is withdrawn, rather than
continuing to push further.

 The power dump is far faster than a typical strike, and does much more damages
as a result... yet also, because of the speed of the release, the punch does not
need to continue past a certain point... and the mass it hits is effected in a completely
different way.  The force is spread out in a sphere rather than mostly forwards with
a typical strike.  The force stays inside the target, doing more damages... instead of
merely accelerating the target backwards.

Yeah, 10 trillion cell phone cameras in this world and yet no one has managed to capture the elusive death punch.

 Roll Eyes

I may be a business school flunky, but I seem to recall that velocity = mass * acceleration.  I don't care how much that little chinese guy concentrates, I'm more scared of Iron Mike.

 Firstly, a person capable of powerful Fajin isnt going to take out a person, let alone
on film.   The best you will see are demos, like the ones in the videos where the
forces are released in the air, or partial release on a human thru a padded target,
just as Ive shown Both.

 ALSO, you dont SEE that kind of power.  You have to Feel it to know it.
There are plenty of hardened experiences martial artists who have told of
someone like Bruce Lee demo-hitting them, and how bad it messed them up.
Just as there are tons of people out there visiting someone like Chen Xiaowang
for a personal demo.


 Now, a bulky person has an easier time generating massive forces, because even if they
mess up and have massive losses... there is still plenty of mass to cover it.  However,
a smaller person does not have the luxury of such losses.   Also, the larger guys are
usually much slower, and easier to evade and counter.

 Tyson used to be powerful.. yet his return to the ring?  Not the same.  Why?
Same thing Ive been talking about.  Lack of ability to concentrate power.  When he
started out... he was an extreme angry troll.  His anger level, is what made him
able to create Fajin power... because his anger caused him to tighten all his
muscles on impact 'sharply'.   This is seen in a lot of fighters... when they get really
emotional, they create KO force power.   Tyson has calmed down, and does not have
that same animal instinctual power.  His quick-twitch muscles have probably
degenerated to mere slow-power muscles.  To regain these, you need to constantly
work with fast-twitch style drills.

 Tyson also is not skilled in anything besides boxing.  A fighter like this has no
experience with things like Groin protection, knee protection, or any means of
blocking/redirection whatsoever.

 With gloves off,  A smaller faster boxer is far more dangerous than Tyson.


 If you do not understand the difference between power release in
seconds -vs- split-seconds...  then there really is no point in trying to argue with you.

 If you do not understand the concept of Unified Mass = Greater power... then
again, I cant help you.

 Its not that you are not capable of understanding... and not that I have not
described it well enough... but merely to do with ignorance and beliefs.

 I can tell you one thing...  There will be Artists / Fighters who will read what Ive
posted...  Will understand...  Will say "Wow. I never thought about it like that",
And just may start to develop the power on their own...  Just as I did, from much less
helpful "Hints", in Lees books, over 10yrs ago.

no that's prison food no ring time and no bazillion dollar incentive's from the don.

also what he lack's in now he make's up on your ear.

[shmokes]

Why in god's name would you ever, ---smurfing--- ever, quote a Xiaou2 post in its entirety?  Are you mad???

[shmokes]

yeah, but this is magic, understand now?   

It's . . . beginning . . . to make . . . sense . . .

[northerngames]

Why in god's name would you ever, ---smurfing--- ever, quote a Xiaou2 post in its entirety?  Are you mad???

believe it or not I don't know how to do a partial quote 

[shmokes]

   I just click the quote button and then delete the parts I don't want.  Then if I want to do multiple quotes I just copy/paste the open quote tag and add another close quote tag.

[Malenko]

first off Tyson wasn't so great when he returned to the ring because once little mac figured out the red blink / eye wink , everyone knew how to beat him.


I think I know how to put this to rest. Xiaou, go find an 80 lb woman, teach her how to do your HaDoKen punch and I'll fight her. I'll bet you I win and I am pretty much untrained in anything except Mortal Kombat and street fighter (II) but I have a Killer Instinct

[hypernova]

If Xiaou can do a Kamehame-ha, that'd be frickin' sick.

Then I'd also believe pc fans should be sucking air in on the bottom rather than blowing out hot air at the top.

[Xiaou2]

They radiate out 180 degrees from the collision, not 360 degrees.

 Zoom in on the picture.  The lines are greater than 180 degrees.  However, my
apologies for not drawing completely to the edges

  And I don't give a ---fudgesicle--- whether the energy is transferred in a hundredth of a second or a billionth of a second.  The energy we're talking about is kinetic energy, not static electricity (though there likely would be a transfer of that as well).  The transfer of kinetic energy is going to force the object at rest to move in the direction it was hit unless there is some opposing force stopping it.

 This again shows your lack of understanding of physics in the human body.
 
 The body Will move back some, but the distance a body is moved back is not merely
based on power levels.  Time IS a factor. And so is the material you are striking.

 For example, I can stand toe to toe, and push a person backwards several feet.
However, it would do No damage whatsoever.

 I can also hit a persons belly surface and pull back just as fast, and again... no
damages, as well as no body movement at all.

 I can hit Hard and follow thru for 2 seconds time...  and that person may stumble back
4 to 5 ft.

 Or, I could hit hard with fajin, with a split second release, and the person will only
move back a foot at most.


 There are many things that create greater target push back:

1) Amount of force
2) Depth of Hit
3) Amount of Time the energy is left "on".  (Time the punch is still pushing forwards)
4) Weather the Target is completely limp, or is actually "resistive".
5) Weather the Target person re-directs the energies, such as bending knees - which
changes horizontal forces to downwards shock absorption.
6) The kind of target you hit. Solid bone -vs- Fleshy
7) Type of mass distribution & Center of Gravity.
Configuration of Joints / Energy flow pathways

 And much much more. The bodys effects are too numberous to list.   

 
 I can throw a down-diagonal forwards kick at a persons forwards lead leg Knee, and the knee is barely going to move at all. It will compress and stress the joint and tissue... but it has little way too move.

 Without any real in depth fighting experience, its easy to know why you do not
understand these concepts.   Even many experienced fighters may have difficulty
understanding some of this stuff... as something like Fajin, and Tai Chi absorption
techniques, are some of the highest levels of technical abilities out there.

[polaris]

get a video camera, get a big lump of solid ice , lay it somewhere where it would slide away from you if you pushed it. Hit it in a horizontal plane with one of your magic punches, if the ice shatters but doesn't move away from the punch at all ,i'll believe you, if not you need to go read some physics text and admit you're wrong.

[shmokes]

 There are many things that create greater target push back:

1) Amount of force
2) Depth of Hit
3) Amount of Time the energy is left "on".  (Time the punch is still pushing forwards)
4) Weather the Target is completely limp, or is actually "resistive".
5) Weather the Target person re-directs the energies, such as bending knees - which
changes horizontal forces to downwards shock absorption.
6) The kind of target you hit. Solid bone -vs- Fleshy
7) Type of mass distribution & Center of Gravity.
Configuration of Joints / Energy flow pathways

But all other things being equal, the harder punch is going to knock a person back more than the softer punch.  I don't know what the weather has to do with it, but the majority of those variables exist in equal measure whether you're boxing or realutlimatepower punching.  All of those things being equal, the more energy transferred, the more a person will be knocked backwards.  And, btw, turning off the energy (3 on your list) is not going to transfer a greater amount of power any more than turning off a light switch uses more power.

[shmokes]

 Zoom in on the picture.  The lines are greater than 180 degrees.  However, my
apologies for not drawing completely to the edges

BTW, when punching do you yell out, "Avada Kadavra!" to get this effect?

[northerngames]

a good real example of real fighter's not playing games or doing demo's on phonebook's is brock lesnar VS the texas crazy horse heath herring.

brock hit him with a clean straight and the guy went down on his ass and actually rolled backwards into the fence becuase of the mass size and power of brock.

if you think you can hit harder then him your trully nuts.

after heath took that blow he quikly got to his feet amazingly but his eye and pretty much the whole side of his face was swollen purple just seconds after the impact.

he did not get knocked out from the forehead punch all though it was swollen with his eye nor did his head explode with fajin he got clobbered straight by a large tree trunk of an arm and that was two real mortals in a real fight and what really happens when you get hit really really hard by a huge fist with more power then your average human I would say.

heath is also like 6' 8" 250lbs+ I believe and brock put him down and sent him rolling backward's in one blow.

what your claiming is if brock had his fajin down packed instead of the other guy rolling back brock could just do like jim brown did in the dusk dusk till dawn movie.

Just do a side step and snatch that heart right out of the guy while still standing there with a stupid look on his face.

   

[danny_galaga]

My moneys still on the pirates...

[Xiaou2]

after heath took that blow he quikly got to his feet amazingly but his eye and pretty much the whole side of his face was swollen purple just seconds after the impact.


he did not get knocked out from the forehead punch all though it was swollen with his eye nor did his head explode with fajin he got clobbered straight by a large tree trunk of an arm and that was two real mortals in a real fight and what really happens when you get hit really really hard by a huge fist with more power then your average human I would say.

 This says it all.  The guy got back up.   There was a ton of power released... but it
was "dull" enough that it did not cause brain damages, blood vessel ruptures... Not even
a lowly knockout.  

 It was a heavy Stream of energy, and not an immediate full mass dump.


 Ive knocked out 3 fighters, all of my choosing.  IE: Not on accident.  Not by chance.
Not after 15 tries.   Single hit KOs  at will.   I was a mere 150lbs at that time... and
I only put maybe 20% power @ 6ft distance.   This is not to brag.  Its merely
to say what happened, and what is possible at the weight level.

 A person with 200+  lbs  with Fajin, would have to be far more careful, because the
level of power would be multiplied to an unthinkable level.   Which is exactly what
happened when the Bulky JKD guy hit me from a mere 1"  thru the 4" phone book,
setting my chest on fire for 4hrs long.  Another inch and I would have been critical.
I almost went to the hospital as it stood, as the pains were unbearable.

 "Dull power" is NOT painless, and can even be fatal.   However, the
same person trained in Fajin, can multiply his power well over 3x, reduce his need
for large distances, and make his strike over  3x  as fast.

 Dull power isnt going to work well for the smaller person who needs to defend himself
and his loved ones.    They simply do not have enough mass to create enough
effect with it.   However, Sharp concentrated power Will work.

 

And, btw, turning off the energy (3 on your list) is not going to transfer a greater amount of power any more than turning off a light switch uses more power.

 Fajin is a Bomb. The  MASS  is delivered ALL-AT-ONCE, in a split second.  Once its been transferred, its 100% done.

 I simply wont argue the point anyone.  You do not understand physics well enough... and you are too lazy to read the actual details correctly to make the understandings.

(which causes me to retype the same thing 3+  times.   It will be amazing if you can
actually 'make it' as a lawyer with those kinds of reading skillz)

[Xiaou2]

Which one is more Powerful / Preferable:


1)  Full mass delivery  in  .001  second
 
200

 
 Or


2) Stream of quickly decelerating Mass over 3 seconds
 


50 30 30 20 20 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 05 05 05 05 05 05 05 02 02 02 02 02 01 10101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101 01010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010 10101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101 01010101010100101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101 01010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101
(This part would go on for several pages if compared in relative time units)

[polaris]

if it can be explained by physics as you claim, show me the formula that explains it, not a load of numbers that mean......
nothing

do you understand now its in red and big letters

[HaRuMaN]

lol

[Cakemeister]

I think what X is describing is what in physics is called an "impulse", which is the integral of force over time.

Consider two punches delivering the same amount of momentum. Punch A is delivered with a much higher force over a much lower time than punch B. Punch B might have a net effect like a push, if it is slow enough, but punch A might have a more damaging effect.

It's sometimes hard to tell what X is saying, but I think that this whole fajin business is how to concentrate the same amount of punching power over a shorter time frame, thus increasing the force delivered. I'm guessing this higher force is what causes X the chest pain, instant death, and other effects.

[Xiaou2]

Cakemeister is much close to the mark of understanding.

 The real speed comes from fast muscle twitch.  Similar to how you blink your
eye.   But its done with the whole-body at once.   A sort of convulsion/spasm.

 Without touching anything, it looks foolish.  However, when attached to the end
of an already fast moving fist, and pressed against a solid target... its forces
become amplified and very damaging.   

 Again, you are talking nearly all your mass dumped in a time unit in the
fraction of a second.   So much power, in so little time, is immense.
The tissues / organs can not absorb it fast enough... and shread/tear/explode.

[Malenko]

don't you understand, if someone shot you with a bullet and the bullet was wiggling and stopped as it hit your skin, it'd do way more damage. 

Also, I got $50 on jim living and Im still willing to beat the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- out of Xiaou's death strike trained 80 lb woman.

[Xiaou2]

 Ohh PBJ, Im sure there may be several posters that woudnt mind missing you...
but no, thats not what Im about.

 Im happy to give limited power Demos, and even teach the technique.  But Im not
reckless, and do not fight people to prove that I can take a life or put them into the
hospital.   Ive come to learn there are way too many mindless hardheaded brutes
who do not know whats best for them.   However, "I" know the result.  I also know
that a life is far more precious than a mere $1000.

 And even IF a limited power demo is done on PBJ,  there will Still be people who question
its validity, as well as the tough-ness of PBJ.  IE: More challenges will form a line, maybe
trying to attack at will.

 In addition, I have not done serious level of training in years, so while I do have
some fajin in me,its much more limited than it used to be. Thie timing is so precise, and
you need very tuned quick-twitch fibers.  Mine are half gone and out of tune.  Id need a
few months of building & re-training to be satisfied with high level performance and
precise and perfect repeatability.

(IE:  I just went to hit the fajin bag now, and Im only getting the 'Full' mass effect maybe once
every 12 attempts at 8".  I used to be able to make the effect work full power, every shot,
at only 1".)

 I could probably still KO under 8" (maybe much more than I realize).. but the problem is,
Im nervous to even try.  The power is sudden and violent... so to go from  
"Dizzy"  to  "Disaster" can be well too easy an accident.

 The incident would probably unfold like this:

1) Punch at 1/10th power to forehead.
2) Hows that?  Want more?  (Hesitation. Thinking twice, but Pride takes over)  Yes?  Ok. Heres 1/4...
3) Hows that?  (Seeing Stars.Almost passing out)   Want 1/2?   No?  Ok.  Demo over.

 The time will come, when a video may be posted.   Until then, you will have to find someone
local to satisfy your disbelief's with.

[northerngames]

Ive knocked out 3 fighters, all of my choosing.  IE: Not on accident.  Not by chance.
Not after 15 tries.   Single hit KOs  at will.   I was a mere 150lbs at that time... and
I only put maybe 20% power @ 6ft distance.   This is not to brag.  Its merely
to say what happened, and what is possible at the weight level.

that's becuase you had choosen the 3 smallest glass joe's that could not take a hit instead of choosing the tyson's instead.

I honostly think your fajin and forehead punch would go nowhere with heath herring or pretty much any other experianced reality fighter not all people get knocked out very easy unless they have a thin skull or got rocked extremely hard and clean.

in reality there also not going to stand still there while you build your kuma power's up.

no different when there are some guys that pass out just from seeing blood while other's could be beat bloody for an hour straight but never fall out.

boxer's take how many hits in one round and go a full 12 if you think your fajin is faster and harder then a pro boxer's punch's good luck to you if you cross there path bare knuckle on bad terms becuase there power and punch's are a proven reality that is shown full force on another human on video and in person.

not phonebook's not spring jumping 30ft up in a maple tree or running acrosss the bamboo forrest top's.

could you perhaps find a real video with a real person taking one of these punch's in full contact with no demo's or magic involved becuase I have never seen this done and think you speak of something straight out of an ol 70's kung fu movie and for some reason you think these actor's really can do that stuff like steven seagull and his non tangeling hair move's.

[Xiaou2]

that's becuase you had choosen the 3 smallest glass joe's that could not take a hit instead of choosing the tyson's instead.

 Heh.  Funny stuff.   Ive fought men over twice my mass on a regular basis.  However, I never
chose to KO them, as they were respectful enough.  It was only a few select punks, who got exactly
what they deserved.

I honostly think your fajin and forehead punch would go nowhere with heath herring or pretty much any other experianced reality fighter not all people get knocked out very easy unless they have a thin skull or got rocked extremely hard and clean.

 You really dont know much about the brain and head area.   I does not take much force
to rattle the brain.  It does not matter how big the person is.  The effect is the same on that
area. Bone to Bone conduction is the Best energy transfer material.  The force goes instantly
thru it without absorption losses, and right on to messing with the brain.

 If hitting an obese man in the fatty ab area... then yes, that person isnt going to be effected
the same way a smaller thinner man would.  But bone to bone conduction is complete different.

 Unless that man has an inch of Fat in his forehead, he would be rocked just as bad
as anyone else, when taking a fajin strike there.


 The reason why some of these pro fighters take so many hits and stay upright is not due
to their Iron heads.  Its the fact that the puncher is wearing force absorbing gloves, And that
they are not getting a good connecting shot in.  IE: the person rolls off a good deal of the
energy with shoulder/hip turn and footwork.

 Some of the reasons I can get a clean precise shot in without the person being able to evade or
roll off some of the energy, is because:

1) Punch is not launched till target is 1.5 ft or less away.  Too close to easily roll / dodge.
  ((Punch travels about 40 feet per second))

2) (punching) Lead extended hand, is closer to target.

3) Punch is non-telegraphic.

in reality there also not going to stand still there while you build your kuma power's up.

 lol.   In demos, you see a person take their time to get things maximized for 'shows sake'. 
Most of the Demos involve Pushing, rather than focused damage power.  An
explosive push.  To get maximum crowd pleasing... they want to maximize things to get the
most distance.

 In my case, the JKD guy knew I was a martial artists, and I specifically asked to see the
difference in power levels.  He therefore knew I would not be impressed by a distance push, that
Wow the masses... and let me have a real fajin strike.

 In reality, there is no need to prepare.  Its easily done on-the-fly.  And all the people whom Ive
rocked, was during Live sparring matches. 2 of which were skilled grapplers.

no different when there are some guys that pass out just from seeing blood while other's could be beat bloody for an hour straight but never fall out.

 This contains a lot of truth... but not really the way you think.  Yes, a lot of people can take a
lot of abuse.  But take the gloves off, and take the rules away:  A true brutal street fight usually
last mere seconds - even with two of the toughest bad -Bottoms- around.

 The brainwashers really have you wound up.

boxer's take how many hits in one round and go a full 12 if you think your fajin is faster and harder then a pro boxer's punch's good luck to you if you cross there path bare knuckle on bad terms becuase there power and punch's are a proven reality that is shown full force on another human on video and in person.

 A boxer takes so many hits, because they are not really allowed to deflect them properly.
Also, the gloves are so thick in boxing matches... that "sharp force" is nearly impossible to achieve.
 
 My hats off to boxers.  They are Tough cookies, and in incredible shape...
 But the reality is, I can take any boxer, have him try to throw a straight punch at less than 6",
and it will be dismal.  I can improve any boxers abilities and power output with Fajin training...
Both in Close range, and with their longer range & typical boxer strikes.

not phonebook's not spring jumping 30ft up in a maple tree or running acrosss the bamboo forrest top's.

 The phone book is placed on a persons chest to keep most of the force inside the phone
book.. and not concentrated as intensely in their innards.  It spreads the forces over a larger
area, which also reduces overall damage potentials.  Even with all that, a 1" fajin strike nearly
hospitalized me...  (And Ive took a full power kick from an incredible TKD guy, that lifted me
off the ground, and created Micro-Fractures in my chest.  I got right back up and kept fighting.
Im no creme puff)

could you perhaps find a real video with a real person taking one of these punch's in full contact with no demo's or magic involved becuase I have never seen this done and think you speak of something straight out of an ol 70's kung fu movie and for some reason you think these actor's really can do that stuff like steven seagull and his non tangeling hair move's.

 The one video contains a straight punch, which uses a partial level release of fajin.  The guy holding
the pad, is audibly in pain, and immediately doubles over.

 Fajin does Not have a certain look.  You can even add fajin to a boxers Hook.   
The only difference you Might notice... is the way the fighters body acts at impact, and the effect of
the person who takes the hit.

 Its far easier to notice a person like Chen Xiaowang's Fajin, partly because of his breath
noise... but mostly because of the shaking of all his mass After the release.   But, the power
release itself, is basically invisible to the human eye, because its happening at "Fraction of Second"
speed.

[northerngames]

  So in all the years of boxing and mma how come nobody does this fajin and just knock everyone out in 1 strike make their buck and go home the champ 10 second's later.

  I mean it is mma from japan brazil russia usa tailand china pretty much everywhere with some of the best real fighter's in the world and I never heard of any of them having this one hit wonder punch so where are these fajin fighter's coming from again and who do they fight for real becuase a demo of something like that just don't get it lol.

  Closest guy to one hit wonders was tyson in his prime and I dont't recall any 3" or 6" punch's he squated down low and came up with a cross upper cut type deal and I doubt he even heard of fajin but other then him who was knocking heavy weights out in less then 30 second's or on there first blow in the majority or their real ring or street fight's?

 kimbo sometimes's but he don't know fajin nor heard of it either I dont believe  

I do respect all art forms but I am lost on where the proof is and why it is not applied to any real time fights around the world.

I never heard in any headline's man dies becuase fighter accidently slipped him the ol 3" fajin punch and his heart exploded.

the way your talking glove's would not even matter in your case becuase your punch is so fast and powerfull they never have time to compress and I just don't understand where this logic is coming from.

and yes I understand that your not going to get much out of a 3" punch wearing a boxing glove 

[Vanguard]

Forget all this analysis of Xiaou2's Jedi powers.   

Ask yourself, who really expects to defend themselves these days with any martial art?

In today's society, if someone wants to do you harm and take your belongings, it's likely you will be dead before you're even aware of the persons intent.   You'd never even be given the opportunity to whip out your 1" punch or your miyag magic.   

First, any criminal is going to prey on the weakest and most defenseless looking person they can find.   They aren't going to pick the guy who looks like he works out.  They are going to go after grandma or grandpa.

Second, if they are going to go after someone who isn't the weakest, then they are going to bring deadly force (gun).   They aren't going to give you a chance to defend yourself.  Like I said, you'll be dead before you even see them or at least shortly after.  Even if they just hold you at gun point, they aren't going to get within reach of you and likely if you try to make a move they will shoot you.

Look at the recent Pentagon shooting.   A shooter approached 2 ARMED officers and shot them.   These are people trained in defending themselves and they still could not react in time to disable the shooter before being shot themselves.   Now imagine if those 2 officers were standing there in their karate pajamas and had only their 1" punch to protect them.   Not only would they both be dead right now, many more people would as well because the shooter would have just moved on to the next victim.  One of the officers even said he knew when they guy walked up that something bad was about to happen.   And still, he couldn't react fast enough.

Seriously,  other than mind/body exercises / hobby, does anyone really think they are learning self defense with martial arts?

[saint]

Yes, I completely believe I am learning to defend myself. I poll most of the upper belts I work with and ask them if they've ever had to use it. Most have not, but a decent percentage have. Examples:

- One of my sensei's (strong looking guy) was attacked from behind by 2 thugs. He turned around and cleaned their clock bad enough they were still there when the police arrived. His injuries were minor.

- One of my classmates is a security guard (the no-gun type). An irate customer of the car dealership he works at attacked him. He put an arm lock on him and held him down until the police arrived.

- My JuJitsu sensei was an English teacher. Somewhat petite lady. Two football players (seniors in high school, big guys) started fighting each other with the intent of doing each other serious harm. She got behind one and put a choke hold on him, and put her foot in the belly of the second. Both of them were out of the fight in a few seconds.

- I personally was in a situation when a white belt. Short story is I got between a big guy and one of my family members and told the big guy to back off. I was able to talk him down, but I was prepared to use what few things I knew at the time to stop him from hurting my family member. All testosterone and fists, no deadly weapons or planned assaults.

We train on gun and knife defense. I have techniques I will use should I ever need to. The first technique we're taught is that if we're faced with a gun/knife, we should give them whatever the hell they want and run away as soon as possible. However, if we believe that the gun/knife is going to be used rather than just waved around, we have techniques and training that will come to play. Rather than just sit there and let the person kill me or a loved one, we'll take action. I'd guess I have somewhere between a 30-60% chance of successfully taking the gun/knife away (I am not yet very good at the techniques by any means) depending on circumstances.

You also discount things like purse snatching, bar fights, people getting out of hand at sporting events, ... etc.

I couldn't disagree with you more. I guarantee you likely every single person in every martial arts class I take hopes not to have to use their skills to defend themselves, but believes it is a possibility.

Forget all this analysis of Xiaou2's Jedi powers.   

Ask yourself, who really expects to defend themselves these days with any martial art?

In today's society, if someone wants to do you harm and take your belongings, it's likely you will be dead before you're even aware of the persons intent.   You'd never even be given the opportunity to whip out your 1" punch or your miyag magic.   

First, any criminal is going to prey on the weakest and most defenseless looking person they can find.   They aren't going to pick the guy who looks like he works out.  They are going to go after grandma or grandpa.

Second, if they are going to go after someone who isn't the weakest, then they are going to bring deadly force (gun).   They aren't going to give you a chance to defend yourself.  Like I said, you'll be dead before you even see them or at least shortly after.  Even if they just hold you at gun point, they aren't going to get within reach of you and likely if you try to make a move they will shoot you.

Look at the recent Pentagon shooting.   A shooter approached 2 ARMED officers and shot them.   These are people trained in defending themselves and they still could not react in time to disable the shooter before being shot themselves.   Now imagine if those 2 officers were standing there in their karate pajamas and had only their 1" punch to protect them.   Not only would they both be dead right now, many more people would as well because the shooter would have just moved on to the next victim.  One of the officers even said he knew when they guy walked up that something bad was about to happen.   And still, he couldn't react fast enough.

Seriously,  other than mind/body exercises / hobby, does anyone really think they are learning self defense with martial arts?

[Vanguard]

Yes, I completely believe I am learning to defend myself. I poll most of the upper belts I work with and ask them if they've ever had to use it. Most have not, but a decent percentage have. Examples:

I'm specifically addressing lethal force since Xiaou2 is making claims that he can kill with a punch.   What situation would arise where that would actually be practical.   I can think of none expect perhaps being attacked by a fellow ninja.   Anyone else is going to kill you from ten feet away.

I seriously doubt that anyone who intends on killing you with a gun is going to give you any chance whatsover to use your skills.   Again, look at the Pentagon shooting.   This was gun vs. gun and highly trained individuals could do nothing to protect themselves.

You also discount things like purse snatching, bar fights, people getting out of hand at sporting events, ... etc.

No, I'm not discounting those.  I'm not really even addressing those types of issues.   But since you bring them up, the rational person would just stay out situations like that and let security deal with it or let the robber have the purse.   Likely you are just going to interject yourself into something that is going to get you hurt or you're going to hurt someone else and then find yourself on the receiving end of a lawsuit.


Take Martial Arts to boost confidence, stamina, for fun, whatever.   Take a firearms class and get a concealed weapons permit if you want to defend yourself.

[shateredsoul]

Take Martial Arts to boost confidence, stamina, for fun, whatever.   Take a firearms class and get a concealed weapons permit if you want to defend yourself.

We don't need more people carrying guns on the streets... Cops kill enough people as it is. Don't need any paranoid trigger happy pedestrians kill off people as well.