Sucks to Be Dave Foley...

[FrizzleFried]

It sure sucks to be Dave Foley right about now...

http://www.justice.gov/usao/can/press/2012/2012_01_09_foley.guiltyplea.press.html

[HaRuMaN]

Wow...

Wonder what the sentencing will be?

[FrizzleFried]

More news... (well,  same news but with a Dave Foley perspective added)...

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_19708486

[DCsegaDH]

Damn 20 years and a fine, that does suck (if he is guilty).

[FrizzleFried]

Damn 20 years and a fine, that does suck (if he is guilty).

That is for just one of the charges.  The other charge carries a possible 30 years and bigger fine...  so the dude is looking at a possible 50 years + fine.  THAT SAID,  he did plead guilty...so there IS a deal on the table.  I'm guessing he'll get away with a big fine... or possibly a small jail sentence + fine.

[mgb]

That co-defendant in Milford Conn. Is the large distributor in my area and they are crooks.

[drventure]

@pinballjim, is that sarcasm? Can't quite tell.

Based on the article, Foley pulled some pretty bold moves, plus since he had an accomplice across state lines, that drew in the mail and wire fraud charges, which gets into the federal arena.

Plus, sounds like he misled a bank to indicate he was employed when he wasn't.

And, he's already plead guilty, so it sounds like there is no question of guilt.

Still, possible 50 years for that, and yet the guys that led Bear-Sterns, Goldman Saks etc, walked away without a care in the world (and a huge golden parachute)?  

[mgb]

Didn't Foley also try and bring down Mame at one time?

[BadMouth]

Didn't Foley also try and bring down Mame at one time?

He tried to trademark the name for himself IIRC.

Seems to me that this is Bank of America's doing.

[CheffoJeffo]

They're coming for the MAME Devs next.

Says the guy that, along with Xouchey, defended Dave, even years after the MAME trademark episode.

Try actually understanding the issues for once Jim ... it'll cut down on the stupidity.

[Mac Green]

another article i found http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/07/10/BA6L18LLG3.DTL

[drventure]

Hmm. The US Attorney General article says he plead guilty on Fri

The SFGate article says he plead not guilty on wednesday

[Thenasty]

DF is freed from bail and returns on April.

I'm sure he will be stopping by here once more.


McDonalds still hiring, but I think you're (DF) too late.

[CheffoJeffo]

It is sad -- he had some good ideas, but more importantly, has a family.

He ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- them over worse than he ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- any of us.

[BadMouth]

Hmm. The US Attorney General article says he plead guilty on Fri

The SFGate article says he plead not guilty on wednesday

The SFGate article is from July 2009.

[drventure]

Doh!

And that, my friends, is why I'm not a lawyer 

[Well Fed Games]

I thought you meant Dave Foley http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0004929/, but I guess after being in the Postal movie, he deserves whatever he gets...

[Kangum]

wow 2,624,475 dollars in loans when he wasnt even employed by them anymore. did i read that right. geeze.

[BadMouth]

He was still employed when the application was filled out and submitted.

It's Bank of America.  I have no sympathy for them.
I hope he used the proceeds to pay off smaller creditors (vendors, business partners, credit unions).

[drventure]

He was still employed when the application was filled out and submitted.

I don't have a lot of love for BofA either, but that's not what the USDJ article said.

"Foley had been fired from his job by the time the loan applications were submitted.  Foley admitted that he instructed a co-defendant to contact Countrywide Home Loans to falsely confirm his continued employment, after his employment had been terminated and prior to receiving the funds."

My emphasis.

[FrizzleFried]

Hmm. The US Attorney General article says he plead guilty on Fri

The SFGate article says he plead not guilty on wednesday

The SFgate article is from 2009.

[Crazy Cooter]

 

[ark_ader]

I find it all rather ironic.

[Crazy Cooter]

I do as well.  It should serve as the perfect reminder though that people DO care about commercial distribution of ROM's (although this case had other things going on as well).

It's too bad really because as much as we "debated", we actually agreed on the basic issue of distribution without consent.  I imagine it was a "if you can't beat them... Join them" type of decision he made although I don't know the actual timeline of when this all happened.

If he was smart (and I believe he is), he'd try and lower his sentence by providing information leading to the arrest of others doing the same thing.  Even if he didn't lower his sentence it would make the evil-inside smile a little if he knew someone else was being put in the frying pan.

[Hoopz]

Even if he didn't lower his sentence it would make the evil-inside smile a little if he knew someone else was being put in the frying pan.

Ding!  Granted, you don't really plead guilty and THEN start the negotiations... 

Anyone wanna start a betting pool on the length of his sentence?  I'd personally put the over/under at a year.

By sentence, are you saying jail time?  If so, I'll take the under.  I'll guess that he doesn't spend any time, gets a hefty fine, probation and a bunch of community service hours.

[Crazy Cooter]

Time served, seven years probation, and a nickel on his back for same/similar.  BofA has to get him back on the streets making restitution payments.

[Hoopz]

By sentence, are you saying jail time?  If so, I'll take the under.  I'll guess that he doesn't spend any time, gets a hefty fine, probation and a bunch of community service hours.

Let's make this interesting.  How about $5?   

Nah, but seriously, I'll take the over.  Any weird BS happens like delayed sentencing or he commits suicide and the bet's off.

In for $5.  Same number I had in mind, Jimmy.  I got under a year and a year is a push.  Suicide is win-win-win.

[Thenasty]

DF is not worth $5, he's worth $0.00 to me 

[ark_ader]

You got a bet, friend.

I'm still waiting for my $20 from last year.
[/quote]

[Haze]

I'm still more curious about some of the stuff that was supposedly being offered in official packs.

Goal '92 was featured on a number of flyers / adverts.

It's a bootleg.

You can't license a bootleg, there is a mix of hacked code owned by the original manufacturer (from which they don't appear to have any other games licensed either..) and code written by the bootleggers, as well as stolen music / sound effects from another game entirely.

That's not something you can include in a commercial product, period, yet it was.

Furthermore, if you had an official license, you'd likely be supplied with information / resources to emulate the original game / hardware, including information on the protection devices (Seibu Cup Soccer still doesn't work in MAME for this reason)  I actually see very little evidence that the guys doing their emulator software were capable of actually emulating anything from scratch (as in figuring out how things work) tho, so maybe even with original information they would have struggled.  At worst it could have still been better disguised to look like the original tho, for example taking the bootleg patches to the protection and applying them to the original game.

I suspect there is still plenty more dirt to be dug when it comes to Ultracade, Foley and the whole saga.

[Chazz]

"I felt like if they're not going to do the deal, I still need to make a living," said Foley, who now owns a company that manages and promotes DJs and distributes electronic dance music.

DJ Foley D!

[ark_ader]

I'm still waiting for my $20 from last year.

I seem to recall the deal was you had to prove it with photographs and never did?

 

Photographs?   Hmmm I don't remember that...... but since we are talking about photographs lets get back on topic.

[Thenasty]

they got his name already

[Crazy Cooter]

I'm still more curious about some of the stuff that was supposedly being offered in official packs.

I knew it was bad when they offered Jungle King... With a commercial license.  That was back in 2005.

[lilshawn]

United States District Court Judge Edward J. Davila allowed Foley’s continued release on a $100,000 bond and ordered him to return to court on April 30, 2011, at 9 a.m. for sentencing. 

2012 date fail.

well, i guess that's why we haven't seen him skulking around

[Crazy Cooter]

http://www.justice.gov/usao/can/press/press_documents/FOLEY%20Plea.pdf

Contains a lot more detail.

[ark_ader]

Looking at that plea deal, it reminds me of those individuals who offering Mame Rom burning services.

In respect, wouldn't ebay transactions be considered some type of mail fraud, or at least a conspiracy charge?

Interesting.

[BadMouth]

Looking at that plea deal, it reminds me of those individuals who offering Mame Rom burning services.

In respect, wouldn't ebay transactions be considered some type of mail fraud, or at least a conspiracy charge?

Interesting.

The crux of the charge is that he was still using the name Ultracade, which he didn't have the rights to, not that he was selling unlicensed roms.
Customers were defrauded because they purchased a product presented and labeled as Ultracade when in fact it wasn't.
If he had called it something else and put "works with ultracade" on the box, he might have been in the clear as far as the fraud charge goes.

What I'm curious about is who pursued the issue?  It sounds like the deal with Global VR fell through, so who would be upset about him using the Ultracade name.  Maybe the Bank of America lawyers just tried to find everything they could throw at him.

[Crazy Cooter]

My guess would be the home loan stuff turned bad first and the guy he partnered on that one with rolled over with the other information.  It would be interesting to see what the other two people involved get sentenced with.  If somebody skates free... 

[lilshawn]

Looking at that plea deal, it reminds me of those individuals who offering Mame Rom burning services.

In respect, wouldn't ebay transactions be considered some type of mail fraud, or at least a conspiracy charge?

Interesting.

The crux of the charge is that he was still using the name Ultracade, which he didn't have the rights to, not that he was selling unlicensed roms.
Customers were defrauded because they purchased a product presented and labeled as Ultracade when in fact it wasn't.
If he had called it something else and put "works with ultracade" on the box, he might have been in the clear as far as the fraud charge goes.

What I'm curious about is who pursued the issue?  It sounds like the deal with Global VR fell through, so who would be upset about him using the Ultracade name.  Maybe the Bank of America lawyers just tried to find everything they could throw at him.

i remember reading someplace that he used the proprietary software (that global now owned after he sold ultracade to them) to generate installation codes for some of the game upgrades he was selling, or something along those lines. his ideal was that they (Global VR) bought rights to the UltraCade name but hadn't done anything with it for like a year, and he was all like" hey i might as well make some dough off this...need to feed my family and all" and made the game packs for ultracde... where he thought "ultracade" had no longer existed since global never did anything with it.

don't forget at this point, Foley was working at global still.

Global found out about Foleys hand in (almost theirs) cookie jar and screamed "rape" so technically it WAS counterfeited software... but (not defending foley here buuuuuut...) some of us know globals propensity for abandoning their projects and leaving their customers hanging... coughallofthemcoughcough i would have thought a company had abandoned it if they didn't finish completing the transaction... but it appeared to persons buying the product that it would have been authorized for use when it wasn't

i think the only reason for globals continuation of the "ultracade/arcade classics" is so they can stick it to foley.

BUT

these new charges have nothing to do with the first set of charges (counterfeit game deal). (well they kinda do) this all had to do with fraudulently obtaining bank loans (by saying he still worked at global after he had been fired for the counterfeit software dealy... actually, it was at about the same time... his getting canned happened to be JUST before the loans had been closed and had to have someone (not from global) call in for him and (fraudulently) verify employment.)