GaryMcT's 2-player generic control panel layout

[GaryMcT]

did you already wire up the db25?
there should be more than enough connectors on an Ipac4 for 8+ buttons on a 2 player CP
I think I missed something

It'll definitely work just using the ipac4 for all the buttons and the USB from the U360s.  I was trying to keep the logical names of all the inputs on the ipac4 sane for the generic mapping that I had chosen for the 24 connections over the db25.  I never expected more than 7 buttons per player.  I can make it work though.  I think I'll use U360's on all control panels, which helps the issue (ie. I only need joystick directions for the special case of the Defender panel, etc.)

Bkenobi is right though about SFIV though. . . a friend had problems with that.  Only one of the players can be mapped to the keyboard, the other ones has to be a gamepad.  Hmmmm, need to figure that out before I finalize this.

Bender, what sort of problems have you seen with the controls being treated as a gamepad?

[Bender]

I can't remember off the top of my head now, my memory is for ---Cleveland steamer--- these days
I do remember running into trouble with the gamepad and not with the key presses
One was defiantly a front end thing, and I think Dazz just mentioned that some emu's don't except gampads inputs
I never use PC games with my cab so I've never run into that (seems weak that you HAVE to use a gamepad in SFIV)

Now you have me curious, I think we should put it to the members and get a general consensus (if that's possible)

[GaryMcT]

Hmmm, wonder if it's worth starting a new thread so that folks see it.

[Bender]

why not?

[GaryMcT]

Done!

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=94614.0

[GaryMcT]

I got a prototype mostly built this morning in 1/2" plywood.  Forstner bits and the drill press are great!  My ability to cut a straight line, not so great.  Need to figure out how to do that using the tools that I have, or get more tools.  

If you had a router, a drill press, and a jigsaw (with attachable guide thingy), how would you cut out a rectangular piece of wood, and cut out rectangular holes for mounting joysticks (nothing fancy here yet since these are prototypes and i'm not routing the holes).  I also need to angle the back of the control panel so that it fits properly. . .router?

I'll post some pictures of the progress so far later.  Need to get some screws so that I can mount the joysticks, wire it up, and test it out!

[GaryMcT]

If you were top mounting an Ultrastik 360 in 1/2" plywood (with no routing. . . ugly and sticking up on the top ), what kind of screws would you use?

[KissMyWookie]

I got a prototype mostly built this morning in 1/2" plywood.  Forstner bits and the drill press are great!  My ability to cut a straight line, not so great.  Need to figure out how to do that using the tools that I have, or get more tools.  

If you had a router, a drill press, and a jigsaw (with attachable guide thingy), how would you cut out a rectangular piece of wood, and cut out rectangular holes for mounting joysticks (nothing fancy here yet since these are prototypes and i'm not routing the holes).  I also need to angle the back of the control panel so that it fits properly. . .router?

I'll post some pictures of the progress so far later.  Need to get some screws so that I can mount the joysticks, wire it up, and test it out!

You can never have enough tools!

As for cutting a straight line - with either a router or a jigsaw, clamp a straight-edge to your workpiece and use that as a guide. (For the router, you could either run the side of the router base against the straight edge, or use a templating bit with a roller bearing and run the bearing against the straight-edge).

So, umm, is HL2 Ep3 even in production over at Valve?

Steve

[GaryMcT]

I got a prototype mostly built this morning in 1/2" plywood.  Forstner bits and the drill press are great!  My ability to cut a straight line, not so great.  Need to figure out how to do that using the tools that I have, or get more tools.  

If you had a router, a drill press, and a jigsaw (with attachable guide thingy), how would you cut out a rectangular piece of wood, and cut out rectangular holes for mounting joysticks (nothing fancy here yet since these are prototypes and i'm not routing the holes).  I also need to angle the back of the control panel so that it fits properly. . .router?

I'll post some pictures of the progress so far later.  Need to get some screws so that I can mount the joysticks, wire it up, and test it out!

You can never have enough tools!

As for cutting a straight line - with either a router or a jigsaw, clamp a straight-edge to your workpiece and use that as a guide. (For the router, you could either run the side of the router base against the straight edge, or use a templating bit with a roller bearing and run the bearing against the straight-edge).

So, umm, is HL2 Ep3 even in production over at Valve?

Steve

OK, must buy clamps. And must take router out of box.   I'm having a good time hacking with the jigsaw so far.  There are quite a few problems with the first prototype that I'm glad I didn't spend much time on it. . I need to learn how to do everything though so that when I get to the final one I'll be able to do it cleanly.

I'm too busy working on control panels!  (Just kidding!)

[Ginsu Victim]

So, umm, is HL2 Ep3 even in production over at Valve?

I already figured out not to bother asking Valve-related questions.

[GaryMcT]

If you were top mounting an Ultrastik 360 in 1/2" plywood (with no routing. . . ugly and sticking up on the top ), what kind of screws would you use?

Nevermind, ended up getting some #10-24x1" machine screws, washers, and bolts.  I think that'll work fine (and I'm moving over to 3/4" plywood for the next prototype.)

[GaryMcT]

Is it just me, or is the octagonal restrictor for the U360 really hard to install?  Or are the posts for the octagonal restrictor different than the square/circular restrictors?  Seems like the octagonal restrictor needs to be drilled out to be installable if the posts are the same.  (I don't have the posts that came with the octagonal restrictor with me at work. . . )

[bkenobi]

Based on my relatively cheap jig saw, I don't think you will be happy with the results of using that to cuto ut your CP.  I would use a circular saw if it were me.  Alternately, you could use the jig saw to cut the basic shape and then use a straight edge combined with the router to get a nice finished cut.

[GaryMcT]

Based on my relatively cheap jig saw, I don't think you will be happy with the results of using that to cuto ut your CP.  I would use a circular saw if it were me.  Alternately, you could use the jig saw to cut the basic shape and then use a straight edge combined with the router to get a nice finished cut.

Sounds like a plan!

[GaryMcT]

Got the two U360's mounted.  I think I may have screwed up one of 'em when I took it apart to replace the spring and install the circular restrictor. . it's out of alignment now.   Hopefully Andy can help me figure out what is going on.  Fortnately I have one working one so that I can swap out parts to debug it. . going to wait until I hear from him before I proceed though.

I don't have the buttons wired up yet, and I have one properly working U360, so what else could I do. . . . . . PLAY LOTS OF SPED UP MS. PACMAN!!!!   Man oh man is the U360 with the circular restrictor and hard springs extremely extremely good for this game.  My desire for a square restrictor for this game has just gone away.

Now if I can get the other stick working (before I get the buttons wired up), it's time for some Smash TV and Robotron!  I can definitely see progress slowing down as more and more games start working properly.

[Bender]

the U360's are self calibrating
You probably already tried it...  but just restart and make sure it's centered and you don't touch it while it loads up
or is it physically out of alignment?

[Ginsu Victim]

And have you cleared the gamepad calibration settings in windows?

[GaryMcT]

They are both working fine now!  Talked to Andy on the phone.  Turns out I hadn't reinstalled the washers between the restrictor and the posts.  Doh!  Now I can play Robotron!

[Ginsu Victim]

You may have to make some adjustments to the dead zone in MAME for Robotron. My U360s and a friend of mine both had the same issue with that game. The dead zone had to be increased or else it started firing in some directions depending on where the stick settled (since it never quite hits absolute zero).

[GaryMcT]

You may have to make some adjustments to the dead zone in MAME for Robotron. My U360s and a friend of mine both had the same issue with that game. The dead zone had to be increased or else it started firing in some directions depending on where the stick settled (since it never quite hits absolute zero).

Seems to play find in 8-way mode so far.

Is EMDKAY your thing?

[Ginsu Victim]

Is EMDKAY your thing?

Nope, just a vendor I highly recommend.

[GaryMcT]

Here's the state of things as of a couple nights ago.  Very very very rough prototype.  I have all the buttons in and the joysticks mounted.  I haven't wired up the buttons yet since I got stuck playing Robotron last night for quite a while. 

So far the left-hand joystick is too close to the left, and the buttons are too close to the joysticks.  The middle is also not complete.  I think anything in the middle is going to have to be in a vertical line to make room for moving the joysticks and buttons apart, and moving the lefthand player a bit to the right.

[GaryMcT]

Ugh, I can't believe a newer NVidia or ATI card can't do low frequency resolutions when my old juniker laptop could!  I see an ArcadeVGA in my near future. . . spent too much money on this stuff lately, so it'll have to wait and just stretching for now. . yuck.

Back to controls. . . .

[GaryMcT]

Got the PC limping along using video stretching etc. until I get an ArcadeVGA.  Man oh man is this machine hitching like mad!  Going to have to kill all the non-essential stuff in XP.  I already have Linux on that machine so I may go ahead and give that a try for running at the proper resolution and refresh rate with AdvanceMame.  If that works out, may update the diffs to the latest Mame. . looks like AdvanceMame is a pretty old verison now.

[bkenobi]

I would put the P1/P2 start buttons in the corners before going vertical with them.

[GaryMcT]

I would put the P1/P2 start buttons in the corners before going vertical with them.

Good point!  I'll give that a try. It is unusable space on the sides for gameplay anyhow. 

[GaryMcT]

There is a tiny spot at the top that is just enough to fit the player 1 and 2 start buttons.  Can't put buttons that high anywhere else on the control panel due to physical constraints.  They look really close to the top, but I think that's okay for this prototype.  I've actually shortened the control panel by 1/8" to account for a slant that I'm going to have to deal with later.  That'll make the buttons have a bit more wood to the north of them.

I decided to give 3 inches of clearance to the left side of the player 1 joystick plate in case player 1 is resting their hand on the control panel to the left of the stick.  There isn't as much clearance to the left of the stick for player 2, but I'll see how it works.  Two player is going to be a bit cramped no matter what on this narrow of a control panel.  When I'm playing one player, I'm actually likely to use the player 1 joystick with the player 2 buttons since that is more comfortable for me.

The hold-down clamps are in the way on the right side for the buttons, so I had to move player 2 to the left a bit. 

I'm ignoring the admin buttons for now.  The tiny buttons that I'm using are shallow enough that I may be able to get them at the top of the control panel with some creative routing. At some point I'm probably going to have to start asking opinions on how to mount those tiny buttons if it doesn't become obvious.   I haven't fired up my router yet, so that's more to learn about.

Going to hopefully build another prototype today with this as the basis:

[Ginsu Victim]

So when playing something like Metal Slug, TMNT, or whatever, player two is going to need to reach across you to continue. I think the player two start button is in a bad spot.

[GaryMcT]

Very very good point.  I can move the player 2 start to the lower right on the control panel (can't put it in the upper right due to the hold down clamps being in the way.  I can leave the player one start where it is and possibly crap an admin button or two right next to it.

[GaryMcT]

I need 3" to the left of the joystick plate for my hand which my latest drawing accounts for.  My wife needs 2 1/4".  I may have to move the buttons closer to the stick to accommodate her playing as player two.

[Ginsu Victim]

Very very good point.  I can move the player 2 start to the lower right on the control panel (can't put it in the upper right due to the hold down clamps being in the way.  I can leave the player one start where it is and possibly crap an admin button or two right next to it.

Can't just do this?

[GaryMcT]

No. The spot where I have the 2 buttons is the only spot that high where buttons can go due to the tiny blank spot there in the cab for the Defender joystick.

[GaryMcT]

Really liking the new layout so far.  Need to figure out how to mount the smaller buttons (or some other type of buttons) up high where there is no clearance between the 3/4" MDF/plywood.

[Bender]

if you solder leads directly to those buttons I used and bend the leads down. I'm positive they'll be less than 3/4" and you can just cut a small channel for the wires

actually I'd solder a few inches of wire right to the leads and then put connectors on the end of the wires so you can connect and disconnect if you need to

Edit: just saw your question in the benderama thread

even though there there is no clearance underneath you can still drill all the way through can't you?

[GaryMcT]

Sounds like a plan!  Yes, those are the buttons that I'm using.  I haven't tried to mount those buttons to anything yet, so I'd better get to that soon on one of the prototypes since I'm likely to mess it up the first time.   Do I just cut a 0.52" ish hole straight through and everything works out, or does it need something more elaborate to hold it in there?

[Bender]

Actually from the back with a 1" fostner bit in your new drill press
you drill about 5/8 into the plywood but obviously not all the way through(the buttons only have like a 1/8" thread on them) then the .52" hole centered inside the 1" hole
it is easier to do it in this order because the 1" bit will leave a little indent at the center and it's easy to line up the smaller bit in that, and get it dead center

practice is a good thing, and mark the stop on your drill press so the next one will be super easy and perfect (just make sure the wood is the same thickness, 3/4" ply and 3/4 MDF" are rarely actually the same thickness)

also I get rid of the little foam washer thing in there so the button sits lower to the panel

on the right is the basic idea

[GaryMcT]

Thanks!  Yay for the drill press!  Actually, right after I complained to some friends that the drill press was a pain in the butt to put together, one of them mentioned that they have a full sized one that they put together but never used in their garage that I can have!  Well, I guess I'll have to two of 'em soon then.

[GaryMcT]

What's the best way to transfer scale drawings from paper onto wood/mdf?  So far I've poked holes through the hole centers to make marks on the wood, which isn't so accurate.

[bkenobi]

tape the paper template to your work piece and drill right through it.  You could also mark the centers and remove the paper if you want. 

Remember, this is an arcade made out of wood.  You only need to be as accurate as your eyes will see, not as accurate as a micrometer can measure.  The pencil mark is ~.5mm and your printer isn't exactly accurate.  The tolerance stack up could add up to more than a mm.  I doubt you will be that accurate with your drill press centering, so your drilling will introduce more error than the template.

Also, remember that when these were originally made, they used templates and jigs.  When you saw them in the arcade (as a conversion) some jack ass took a drill and punched a new set of holes into the CP wherever he wanted.

Close is more than good enough!   

[GaryMcT]

I tried taping the paper on and drilling right through for my first prototype.  The paper tears all over the place, at least with the full forstner bit.  Maybe drilling tiny guide holes through the paper is the way to go?  My results are so imprecise so far that it's blatantly obvious.