GaryMcT's 2-player generic control panel layout

[bkenobi]

I used some long leaf spring micro switches (taken from an old broken joystick) and used some double sided tape to attach them to the coin door behind the coin reject button.  It hasn't come off in over a year and works fine.  There's no permanent mods to the coin door that way either.

[GaryMcT]

I also saw mention somewhere of someone rigging a microswitch for this.  If I can clean up the eject mechanism to the point where it isn't really sticky (it is now), I'll give that a try.

Thanks!

[Ginsu Victim]

I rigged up a microswitch behind one of my rejects and used that for credits.

These pics suck, so you can't even tell what's going on in them, but what you're supposed to see is a microswitch mounted on a small bit of wood that is gorilla glued to the coin chute. Everything still functions as normal, except now when you press the player 2 reject, it engages the switch (and it can still reject a stuck coin).

[GaryMcT]

OK, I stood at a machine here at work and found that you guys are right about the stick being too far away from the buttons.  Will do another pass on it tonight and hopefully get the player start buttons in a more sane place in the process.

I may take some time to look into hooking a micro switch up to the coin eject too like you guys mentioned.  Woo hoo!

[GaryMcT]

Here's another version!  Moved the buttons closer to the sticks.  Rearranged the admin buttons.  Put the player start buttons in the middle.  Whadya think?

[Ginsu Victim]

One of those admin buttons wouldn't happen to be EXIT, would it? If so, you might not want to reach for Start to continue your game and accidentally catch the exit button. Even when my setup required me to hit two buttons to exit, I still did it by mistake. Otherwise, looking good. Just make sure to leave enough room for the button nut on the ones closest to the plates.

[GaryMcT]

One of those admin buttons wouldn't happen to be EXIT, would it? If so, you might not want to reach for Start to continue your game and accidentally catch the exit button. Even when my setup required me to hit two buttons to exit, I still did it by mistake. Otherwise, looking good. Just make sure to leave enough room for the button nut on the ones closest to the plates.

Hmm, it might not be too hard to modify mame so that you have to hold the button down for a couple seconds for it to actually exit.

[Ginsu Victim]

The source is available. If you do it, please share. Hold to exit would be awesome and would be appreciated by the community. (Now we just need a frontend based on the Source engine, so that after you lose in a game, you just pull out your crowbar and give the cab a few whacks....or toss it with the gravity gun) 

[GaryMcT]

I'm contemplating doing better CRT and vector emulation in mame too, if I ever get to it.

[Ginsu Victim]

 

[Beretta]

if you're gonna go make changes to allow for delays, i might also throw in a request for "sequences"

ie hitting buttons in a order would do X command.

[smalltownguy]

+1

[GaryMcT]

if you're gonna go make changes to allow for delays, i might also throw in a request for "sequences"

ie hitting buttons in a order would do X command.

I'll have a look.  That is probably quite a bit more work than making it so that you have to hold escape down for a time period before it takes affect.

[GaryMcT]

Sorry for the newby question, but on a different note, Franco's post on how to top mount joysticks is great!  Is there an equivalent for old-school long and short leaf-switch buttons and/or happ-style buttons?  I'm trying to get prepared for my controls showing up.

Also, what do you guys normally prototype in?  Cardboard seems like it'd be hard to play on.  Does panelling wood work well?

[Ginsu Victim]

Even just "hold to exit" would be an improvement. (I can't believe with your line of work that you'd want to code in your free time, but hey, if you enjoy it, more power to you!)

[Ginsu Victim]

Also, what do you guys normally prototype in?  Cardboard seems like it'd be hard to play on.  Does panelling wood work well?

It's not for a playable mockup. It's just to make sure the layout feels comfy, so cardboard tends to be the norm. Of course, you could always do a playable mockup if you want.

[GaryMcT]

Even just "hold to exit" would be an improvement. (I can't believe with your line of work that you'd want to code in your free time, but hey, if you enjoy it, more power to you!)

I haven't coded at home much since we finished HL2 where I worked at home and at work constantly.  I'm willing to do it to support my other hobbies though.  I've been tempted to work on a 2D old-school co-op game at home with Smash TV controls at home.  Who knows if I'll ever get to it though.  Doing the CRT and vector emulation would be less work, and would benefit more people I think.

[Ginsu Victim]

Oh hell yeah, for sure.

[GaryMcT]

Also, what do you guys normally prototype in?  Cardboard seems like it'd be hard to play on.  Does panelling wood work well?

It's not for a playable mockup. It's just to make sure the layout feels comfy, so cardboard tends to be the norm. Of course, you could always do a playable mockup if you want.

OK, cardboard it is for feel.  I'll do MDF after that is sorted out.  I figure with how green I am at carpentry, it'll take more than one try with the MDF.

[GaryMcT]

Sorry for the newby question, but on a different note, Franco's post on how to top mount joysticks is great!  Is there an equivalent for old-school long and short leaf-switch buttons and/or happ-style buttons?  I'm trying to get prepared for my controls showing up.

Bump on the newby question since we started talking about other stuff.

[Ginsu Victim]

Just make sure to wear a mask and goggles. MDF is very fine and gets EVERYWHERE.

I'm quite the novice when it comes to woodwork, but drilling holes is pretty simple. Laying out and drilling a control panel is pretty easy.

[Ginsu Victim]

Sorry for the newby question, but on a different note, Franco's post on how to top mount joysticks is great!  Is there an equivalent for old-school long and short leaf-switch buttons and/or happ-style buttons?  I'm trying to get prepared for my controls showing up.

Bump on the newby question since we started talking about other stuff.

You mean like a template? If so, check out http://www.slagcoin.com/ (which has a lot of other helpful info for you)

[GaryMcT]

Sorry for the newby question, but on a different note, Franco's post on how to top mount joysticks is great!  Is there an equivalent for old-school long and short leaf-switch buttons and/or happ-style buttons?  I'm trying to get prepared for my controls showing up.

Bump on the newby question since we started talking about other stuff.

You mean like a template? If so, check out http://www.slagcoin.com/ (which has a lot of other helpful info for you)

Excellent!  That's exactly what I'm looking for.   Thanks!

[Ginsu Victim]

He shits on Happ a bit too much, but there's a lot of good stuff to help you get started.

[GaryMcT]

He shits on Happ a bit too much, but there's a lot of good stuff to help you get started.

I haven't decided which type of buttons to use yet.  I have a bunch of NOS short leaf-switches on the way (got some for my Asteroids Deluxe machine, Defender machine, and then some!)  I have some Happ ones with Micro-Leafs in them to try out.  If I don't like those, I'll likely go with the NOS ones.

[Ginsu Victim]

Happs with Micro-leafs will probably be fine (and cost less to populate a full CP with compared to outfitting it with leafs).

[bkenobi]

If you want to save your lungs and wallet a bit, you could use plywood for your mock up layout.  I guess it will only save money if you go through a number of iterations and/or have no other use for plywood.  I had some scavenged sheets sitting around, so I used that.

MDF makes a lot of dust that will irritate your eyes, lungs, etc. and will be VERY messy to clean up (which Ginsu already said).  If you use plywood, then you have a playable panel that won't cost as much and won't make all the dust.  Your choice though.

Oh, one other advantage:  when you have a design you like, you also have a template you can use for drilling the final!

[GaryMcT]

If you want to save your lungs and wallet a bit, you could use plywood for your mock up layout.  I guess it will only save money if you go through a number of iterations and/or have no other use for plywood.  I had some scavenged sheets sitting around, so I used that.

MDF makes a lot of dust that will irritate your eyes, lungs, etc. and will be VERY messy to clean up (which Ginsu already said).  If you use plywood, then you have a playable panel that won't cost as much and won't make all the dust.  Your choice though.

Oh, one other advantage:  when you have a design you like, you also have a template you can use for drilling the final!

That's good to know.  I picked up a mask and some goggles.  I might have some plywood in the garage, I'll start with that if so.

Thanks for the info!

[GaryMcT]

All of my controls showed up today!  I think I'm going to really like the U360!  Haven't had a chance to try all of the restrictors and swap out the springs yet.  I suspect that I'll end up with the circular restrictor and the stronger springs like most everyone else.  The JLW feels good too.  I got some of the adjustable micro-switches from GGG hoping that I can put those in there to get rid of some of the clickiness.  Haven't gotten around to looking into that yet.  The micro-leafs appear to be exactly what I want for the buttons!

I've done some prototyping in paper so far. . couple more iterations there before I move on to cardboard.

[Lilwolf]

Sorry for going in late for the thread... but...

1) admin buttons near the start buttons will cause problems

2) Sure on the curvature of the buttons?  I think people should do it if the local arcades when you where growing up had them on the SF games... Otherwise have them straight across.

3) move that 4th bottom on the bottom to the right side.  I had it like that once and hated it...  but I guess you probably had someone say the opposite

4) I have my admin buttons as my side pinball buttons.  Works great (but I do have kids kick my off my game when they are watching, when they get bored... but my kids are grown up a bit now and not a problem)

5) You don't need an enter key... just use your first button...

6) an insert speedup button is used more then pause

7) make a mock up.  Go get an extra board either cheap or scrap or whatever that you put the buttons on before making it look nice.  Wire it up and play for a week+.  I've recreated in my 2 player 8way control panel maybe 10 times and thats one of the simpler control panels (but the most common used).  Don't expect it to be perfect on your first run...  Quick disconnects make it so you can rewire in 1/2 hour once you get yours 'production ready'

good luck

[protokatie]

Sorry for going in late for the thread... but...

1) admin buttons near the start buttons will cause problems

2) Sure on the curvature of the buttons?  I think people should do it if the local arcades when you where growing up had them on the SF games... Otherwise have them straight across.

3) move that 4th bottom on the bottom to the right side.  I had it like that once and hated it...  but I guess you probably had someone say the opposite

4) I have my admin buttons as my side pinball buttons.  Works great (but I do have kids kick my off my game when they are watching, when they get bored... but my kids are grown up a bit now and not a problem)

5) You don't need an enter key... just use your first button...

6) an insert speedup button is used more then pause

7) make a mock up.  Go get an extra board either cheap or scrap or whatever that you put the buttons on before making it look nice.  Wire it up and play for a week+.  I've recreated in my 2 player 8way control panel maybe 10 times and thats one of the simpler control panels (but the most common used).  Don't expect it to be perfect on your first run...  Quick disconnects make it so you can rewire in 1/2 hour once you get yours 'production ready'

good luck

Just doing a point by point here:

#1: Yeah, admin buttons shouldn't be anywhere near buttons used during gameplay. On my mockup they are in the upper left, but there may not be enough space on this CP design for that placement.

#2: The button curve seems fine to me, I think it has to do with how someone places their hands on the CP, for me the curve works in my favor.

#3: Have to disagree on this one as well, but only because I am an avid NeoGeo fan and the bottom row of buttons + the way I put my hands down make it so the button "needs" to be on the left.

#4: Good option, have thought about it myself. Might work well for this guy's cramped CP.

..

#6: Pause is a really good option, but seeing as how it could easily be changed in MAME to a speedup button, it is not much an issue (unless he gets a silkscreen on his CP that says Pause, which would make it much harder to realistically change)


#7: Yep, blowing a little money/time on testing will save you a lot of headache in the end, but a programmer already knows this, right?

[Bender]

If switch them though so the admins are on top and the player start buttons are on the bottom
I don't think the admin buttons near the start buttons will be a problem
first off there are drastically different sizes and second those admin buttons (if your using the ones I used) are harder to press than regular arcade pushbuttons

[GaryMcT]

Like Bender says, these buttons are so hard to press that there is no way that I'll hit them by accident.  I'm not entirely convince that I like these buttons, but they may be just fine.

Bender, I will move the start buttons below the admin buttons.

I've rotated the thumb button lower than the last drawing.  I may move it a bit farther away than it is from its nearest neighbor for comfort reasons.

I'm happy with the curved layout.  This is about ergonomics for me, not about emulating what it used to be like.  I use a split keyboard and a standing desk now, and I certainly didn't use those 20 years ago.

I'll finalize the function (and of course number) of admin buttons before doing a control panel overlay.  I get the feeling that speedup could be a shifted button for me to use where no one else needs to really ever use it.  The admin buttons for me are exactly what I want other folks to see to be able to get around when they use the machine without me having to help them.

Putting the admin buttons on the side isn't an option for the cabinet that this is going in (which I'm not going to modify).

I may still keep an enter key to keep the right-hand UI for getting around in the menus in one place.  Also, button layout on different panels are going to be different, and I want to standardize on what's in the middle with the start and admin buttons.

I'm like to move from paper straight to thin plywood tonight so that we can get some playing in.  I won't bother with any routing and will just topmount everything, so it sould be really fast (once I put my drill press together! )

[GaryMcT]

So I have two Ultrastik 360s to put on this control panel.  I also have an ipac4 wired with the most important 24 connections on a DB25.  I'm contemplating wiring all full-sized buttons (7 per player + start) to the U360's and the admin buttons to the ipac4.  Does the shift function only works within one of the interfaces?  I'm assuming so.  If that's the case, I'd leave player 1 start as the shift button and use player buttons for shifted functionality.

Any other recommendations?

[Bender]

If your going to use an IPAC anyway, unless there is a shortage of connectors, I'd use it for all the inputs, it keeps everything simple and I'n think the 360 buttons are be seen as gamepad buttons instead of keyboard presses and that can be an issue sometimes

[GaryMcT]

If your going to use an IPAC anyway, unless there is a shortage of connectors, I'd use it for all the inputs, it keeps everything simple and I'n think the 360 buttons are be seen as gamepad buttons instead of keyboard presses and that can be an issue sometimes

OK, I can do that.  I may screw up my standardized mapping that way though since my DB25 is organized such that each player gets six buttons.  I can use one of the digital joystick directions for the seventh button I suppose, or I can go ahead and do the second DB25 that I planned on doing if I ever needed more inputs to catch everything else.  Will have to think about that.

[GaryMcT]

Wow. . I should really stuck to software.   Took me many many hours to assemble my drill press.  Would have gone more quickly if it had no instructions.  I only have one part left that I don't know what to do with.  That's good, right?

[protokatie]

It's like IKEA products, the fact you have only one errant part means you were too anal about putting it together. Try taking it apart again, then forget about it, come back the next day and try to remember if any more parts are missing and THEN you will be putting it together correctly (ESP if you find a screw or plate a few years later that got kicked under a piece of furnature).

Also, if it is a three pronged plug, and you only have a two pronged outlet, the best thing to do is to cut off the grounding plug. But you must find a new ground for it, so I suggest soldering a wire to the case and hook it to a metal bracelet that you wear on your left wrist. That will properly ground it.

[Bender]

it took me hours to put my drill press together and I had somebody helping me too

I will say it was worth it though I love that thing I use it all the time. Just yesterday I used it to fix my eye glasses... Seriously! saved me $300 for a new pair

did you already wire up the db25?
there should be more than enough connectors on an Ipac4 for 8+ buttons on a 2 player CP
I think I missed something

[bkenobi]

There are some games that might be easier to set up if the buttons are on the same controller as the stick (SFIV comes to mind).  If you have 2 controllers, then you might need to use PPJoy and GlovePIE to recombine things.  It's not a show stopper, but something you might consider.

But, since you already have the IPAC4, you might as well use it, right?