Main Restorations Software Audio/Jukebox/MP3 Everything Else Buy/Sell/Trade
Project Announcements Monitor/Video GroovyMAME Merit/JVL Touchscreen Meet Up Retail Vendors
Driving & Racing Woodworking Software Support Forums Consoles Project Arcade Reviews
Automated Projects Artwork Frontend Support Forums Pinball Forum Discussion Old Boards
Raspberry Pi & Dev Board controls.dat Linux Miscellaneous Arcade Wiki Discussion Old Archives
Lightguns Arcade1Up Try the site in https mode Site News

Unread posts | New Replies | Recent posts | Rules | Chatroom | Wiki | File Repository | RSS | Submit news

  

Author Topic: LED credit display  (Read 4014 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Scumgriever

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 120
  • Last login:July 30, 2013, 07:27:31 am
LED credit display
« on: August 31, 2006, 02:18:44 pm »
Hi everyone,

I picked up the old arcade cabinet that I found for cheap at a local pinball repair warehouse a few days ago and have been having a look at it.

The cab is a pretty generic one that I used to see around the arcades quite a bit here in Australia. I think it was a Simpsons game originally, partly due to the layout of the plugged controls and the start buttons, but mostly due to the distinctive blue bevel.

The cab has a little 2 digit led display in the bevel which shows how many credits you have and I

Scumgriever

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 120
  • Last login:July 30, 2013, 07:27:31 am
Re: LED credit display
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2006, 02:46:21 pm »
Nobody has any ideas?

Maybe i'm not explaining it well.

I'll be using a mechanical coin mech, an aussie 20c one.

I'm trying to figure out how I can wire a system up that will count how many coins have been inserted and allow that many button presses of the 'credit' button to register.

Basically so that I can use my one coin slot to work for all four players.

I cant find anything about this stuff anywhere.
There is a brief mention of coincounters on the BYOAC Wiki but the link that is is referring to is dead. other than that I can't find anything.

Please help. It's doing my head in. ???

rdagger

Re: LED credit display
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2006, 03:03:58 pm »
Does the LED counter currently work when you insert a coin?
Are you looking for a circuit to drive the dual 7 segment LED display?

Scumgriever

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 120
  • Last login:July 30, 2013, 07:27:31 am
Re: LED credit display
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2006, 03:11:19 pm »
Quote
Does the LED counter currently work when you insert a coin?

No the LEDs and board that they're connected to are very dead, I'm going to have to start from scratch.

Quote
Are you looking for a circuit to drive the dual 7 segment LED display?

Yes, and also cutoff the credit buttons when the LEDs are reading 0.

Hippo

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 57
  • Last login:February 28, 2007, 10:07:46 am
  • Building a Cab In Blighty!
Re: LED credit display
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2006, 04:46:54 pm »
There are 2 ways of doing this.

One is to use discrete logic. This will require at least 2 7 segment drivers, an up-down counter and a couple of other IC's.

The other is to use a PIC microchip or equivelent.

Both methods require some time and effort to get working.

rdagger

Re: LED credit display
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2006, 11:02:49 pm »
I think all you need to do is have a circuit that increments the dual 7 segment display when a quarter is inserted and decreases the counter when any of the Player 1-4 buttons are pressed.  I would do it with an AVR ATTiny2313.  1 chip and and a resistor array is all you would need.

You could power the circuit from the IPAC and use the NC pins on the microswitches to trigger events, leaving the NO pins for the IPAC key fires.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2006, 12:10:25 am by rdagger »

Scumgriever

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 120
  • Last login:July 30, 2013, 07:27:31 am
Re: LED credit display
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2006, 01:15:24 pm »
Thanks guys,
I'm deep in elecronics reading now.
gonna figure this one out eventually.
Its a good mix of confusing and logical, i like it so far.

I think I have the counter and LED bit figured, not sure how I can get it to stop the credit buttons from registering when there is 0 on the counter.

Do you know of any good resources that I should have a look at?

I cant seem to find many instructional type sites, lots of parts and specific details of parts which helps and is what i'm going off so far but I'm sure i'm just looking in the wrong places.



grantspain

  • I personally prefer "bog trotter"
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6177
  • Last login:August 16, 2025, 04:42:10 am
Re: LED credit display
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2006, 02:31:47 pm »
there was a credit board designed to do what you want basically it works by storing the credits on the credit board and then when each player press their start button it will take a credit away-now most modern credit boards do this via a select dil switch(klingon etc) but the one you need has four outputs and was specific to only a few games,i think it was called a quattro but it was a very long time ago-a company in the u.k called electrocoin had credit boards with 7 segment displays for credits

Thenasty

  • Trade Count: (+17)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4420
  • Last login:Today at 12:43:27 pm
    • Thenasty's Arcademania Horizontal/Vertical monitor setup.
Re: LED credit display
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2006, 04:17:06 pm »
how about if the player PRESSES the button even tho his game is not OVER yet ? It will decrease your counter and loss his credit. Something must be done with that also, or else, all inserted credit will be lost if player presses the P1 start several times....
Thenasty's Arcademania Horizontal/Vertical setup.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=26696.0

Free VGA Breakout Cable
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=38228.0

Ultimate All in One Coin Mech write up (Make your own)
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=19200.0

JeepMonkey

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 653
  • Last login:July 13, 2012, 01:51:24 pm
Re: LED credit display
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2006, 05:01:39 pm »
In response to Thenasty...

You could use a latching circuit.  Hitting the Start button would make the output go high, and any other button would make the output go low.  Sure, wiring every button to an OR gate would probably be over kill, so just wire up the two main buttons to that player.  This way you could hit the Start button multiple times without taking credits away.  Maybe use a flip flop?

I realize this would not protect against every scenerio, but it would take care of some OOPs.
Pins:  Theatre Of Magic, JP The Lost World, Revenge From Mars

Scumgriever

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 120
  • Last login:July 30, 2013, 07:27:31 am
Re: LED credit display
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2006, 06:24:09 am »
how about if the player PRESSES the button even tho his game is not OVER yet ? It will decrease your counter and loss his credit. Something must be done with that also, or else, all inserted credit will be lost if player presses the P1 start several times....

I'm not too worried about this as it's 99% going to be me playing, i can remember which games can build up credits and which will just eat it. It just for nostalgia.

Besides its not like i cant get my money back out.

I'm also planning to have a bypass on it that i can switch so the credit buttons will work regardless of the amount of coins/credits stored in the unit.

original_maxlamer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 40
  • Last login:November 08, 2007, 08:39:00 am
Re: LED credit display
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2006, 07:31:53 am »
Another issue to consider is that some games required two coins to start and one per continue, or two to start and two to continue ect

Popcorrin

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 858
  • Last login:March 06, 2022, 11:11:43 am
Re: LED credit display
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2006, 10:23:39 am »
Didn't alot of NeoGeo cabinets have just what you are describing.

grantspain

  • I personally prefer "bog trotter"
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6177
  • Last login:August 16, 2025, 04:42:10 am
Re: LED credit display
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2006, 10:36:04 am »
Didn't alot of NeoGeo cabinets have just what you are describing.
yes,its called a credit transfer system

NightGod

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1052
  • Last login:July 26, 2017, 06:59:58 pm
Re: LED credit display
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2006, 11:45:40 am »
Another issue to consider is that some games required two coins to start and one per continue, or two to start and two to continue ect
That was something set by the operator, not something that is a default in the games themselves (at least to my knowledge).
$6.75 the hard way-one quarter at a time.

Scumgriever

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 120
  • Last login:July 30, 2013, 07:27:31 am
Re: LED credit display
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2006, 03:16:28 pm »
Didn't alot of NeoGeo cabinets have just what you are describing.
yes,its called a credit transfer system

Any ideas on where I can find one of these things? or even where I can find some info about them? Like if they can run independently of the main neo-geo pcb?

Fuzzguitar

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 142
  • Last login:November 26, 2012, 12:15:34 am
Re: LED credit display
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2006, 02:45:07 am »
This is an unbelievably cool coincidence.... we may be able to help each other out here.

I am at work and haven't had time to read this fully but I have the smaller version of your machine at home (25" - yours is an LAI 26" on first glance) with the same LED's working, plus the original LAI manual which includes the schematics/settings, should be of great use to you.

I am about to mame my cab too and want to keep this LED working, it looks fantastic when in use with the Jamma board.
"My cab is nearly finished, no really I swear!"

original_maxlamer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 40
  • Last login:November 08, 2007, 08:39:00 am
Re: LED credit display
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2006, 07:34:10 am »
That was something set by the operator, not something that is a default in the games themselves (at least to my knowledge).
I've come across a few in mame that default to 2 coins start + 1 coin continue, and theres bound to be more i haven't found

NightGod

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1052
  • Last login:July 26, 2017, 06:59:58 pm
Re: LED credit display
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2006, 08:37:20 am »
That was something set by the operator, not something that is a default in the games themselves (at least to my knowledge).
I've come across a few in mame that default to 2 coins start + 1 coin continue, and theres bound to be more i haven't found
Have you checked if you can change it in the F2 menu?
$6.75 the hard way-one quarter at a time.

Scumgriever

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 120
  • Last login:July 30, 2013, 07:27:31 am
Re: LED credit display
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2006, 12:26:18 pm »
This is an unbelievably cool coincidence.... we may be able to help each other out here.

I am at work and haven't had time to read this fully but I have the smaller version of your machine at home (25" - yours is an LAI 26" on first glance) with the same LED's working, plus the original LAI manual which includes the schematics/settings, should be of great use to you.

I am about to mame my cab too and want to keep this LED working, it looks fantastic when in use with the Jamma board.
:notworthy:
That's like gold to me right now. Is it too long to scan without being a hassle?

Like I said before the chip that the LEDs sit on in mine is pretty dead but maaaybe fixable with the proper schematics.

I'm about 1/2 way through designing the schematics for my own discrete logic chip which I'll be happy to share with you. So far I've got the credit counter and leds sorted with the down count and cut off for the credit switches figured in my head I think.

I'm pretty new to the hardwiring game though so when I'm done if someone who knows their stuff can have a look over my schematics it'd be much appreciated. It'll save me the frustration and waste of time in building something that won't work even if its put together right. That wont be for a little bit though.

Fuzzguitar

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 142
  • Last login:November 26, 2012, 12:15:34 am
Re: LED credit display
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2006, 06:31:11 am »
Will do my very best to get these scanned over the coming weekend. At the latest it should be Monday which is my day off, I will PM you when they're done.

This has been in the back of my mind for ages, I didn't want the cool LED display non functional under Mame if I could avoid it nor did I have the heart to rip it out.

What you are undertaking seems way out of my league currently (but don't all things when we undertake Mame as a hobby) so I will be glad to help. Other Aussies have helped me in the past and I've been looking to give something back to the community here.

Oh btw I just accquired the exact same CP you have, it will have to be very slightly modified to fit my cabinet but will allow me to fit a trackball and two spinners MUCH more easily - plus I can keep the original untouched if I ever sell the machine as a standard Jamma.

Is your CP top piece permanently nailed into the rest of it?

I was hoping to find a neat way to hinge it once I make a new top piece, really want to be able to perform maintenance if need be - have you thought of this too?

Sorry If I'm not specific enough, unfortunately my Mame cabinet is on the backburner for a while and things aren't fresh in my mind. Was just lucky I checked in here and found your post.
"My cab is nearly finished, no really I swear!"

Scumgriever

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 120
  • Last login:July 30, 2013, 07:27:31 am
Re: LED credit display
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2006, 04:18:54 pm »
Yeah, the control panel on these is great. I've drawn up a template with 2 6 button controlls fpr P1&2, 2 4 button controlls for P3&4, 4 start buttons and a trackball and it doesn't look at all cramped. I'm going to leave the big square illuminated credit buttons up on the ledge bit where they were next to the credit display. I'll be happy to send that to you.

In terms on the panel being attached to the rest of it.
Mine was attached with big fat screws with alan key type heads on them, I've unscrewed those and the panel comes off beautifully. the box underneath isn't completely empty, (there are wood stabilising bits holding the panel rigid it looks like there is more than needed )  so it's pretty likely that some chopping will have to be done to fit all the controlls, specifically the trackball.

Anyway where was I... oh yeah,
I'm going to replace the alan screws (i'm making up terminology as I go, i think you get what I mean though) with shafts of metal that will allow the control pannel to slot snugly into place. The T-mouldnig holds the control panel top in place almost well wnough without the screws in at all.
 a hinge would be no trouble as far as I can see if thats what tickles your fancy. I like the idea of it being totally removable so I can replace it with a steering wheel in the future.

I'm pretty much finished with the first draft of the LED credit circuit, just a few little things to figure out, and have found a guy at work who knows this stuff much better than me who said he'd be happy to check it out to see if it will work for me. I wont get time to actually put it together untill the Uni semester finishes though (mid november). I'll give them to anyone who wants to try them though.

Druin

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 180
  • Last login:May 10, 2009, 02:30:37 am
  • I'm a llama!
Re: LED credit display
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2006, 09:49:50 am »
To get the credit buttons to lock up when the counter is zero, use a gate on each credit button along with an address decoder tied to the counter bits.  I'm not going to be clear headed in the following, paying no attention to high/low, just the concept. 

You can use one of those P=Q  logic comparator type chips in the 74xxx series (would have to look up an exact part number).  Say the counter has 8 bits and those feed into the 7 segment drivers.  Assume the logic is set up so all bits = 0  represents a digit count value of 00.   If more bits are needed use more chips.  If there are unused bits, tie them all zero on both P and Q sides so they will always "match".

The P=Q chip has inputs for P and  inputs for Q.   You tap into the bits from the counter and feed them to the P inputs.  You tie the Q inputs all to ground because that's what you're comparing P to, to get a match of zero count value.   With this P=Q chip, the output goes high or low or whatever, maybe there's 2 outputs,  when the counter P inputs all equal the hard coded Q compare value you set.

So now you have a way to get one logic signal going to a fixed state ONLY when the counter is zero.  Use inverters wherever necessary to end up with the desired logic levels. 

Get a NAND gate or an AND gate, depending on how all the logic levels match up.  Intercept the credit switches so they each feed into one input of a gate, and the other input of each gate connects to the P=Q output trigger (through inverter if necessary).  The output of each gate goes to the keyboard coin inputs.

Another thing to keep in mind is the switches are active low with the common ground hookup, so if you are setting up logic to look for a key press, you are looking for a logic Low.   Also when you wire switches to a logic input such as the gates in this circuit, you'll need a pull up resistor at the same gate input as the switch wire to ensure the level is high rather than "disconnected/floating/ambiguous" when the switch isn't pressed. 

So there is a counter that has all its bits equal to logic low when the counter is zero.  you're hooking those bits to the P inputs of a P=Q comparator.   You're fixing the Q inputs all to logic low so that the output triggers when counter is zero.  You're taking the trigger and routing it to one input of 4 AND/NAND gates and sending a credit switch with pull up resistor to each of the other gate inputs.  The gate outputs are going to the keyboard credit inputs.  Logic is inverted as necessary so that when the button is pressed AND the counter is NOT zero, the keyboard input will be logic low.   

If the counter is non-zero value, the gates should automatically prevent the credit switch from passing through to the keyboard input.

grantspain

  • I personally prefer "bog trotter"
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6177
  • Last login:August 16, 2025, 04:42:10 am
Re: LED credit display
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2006, 06:41:33 pm »
www.brentelectronic.co.uk-look for quadroboss credit board in coin handling

Fuzzguitar

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 142
  • Last login:November 26, 2012, 12:15:34 am
Re: LED credit display
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2006, 08:26:34 am »
Hey Scum (haha)

I managed to scan all the relevant pages from the LAI manual tonight.

There are seven pages that relate directly to you and are pretty chock full of information.

Because they are old and a little faded/yellowed I scanned them as JPEG's of 300dpi and a resolution of 3508x2480.

So all up that's 13.2MB you need to get off me, I could make them smaller of course but I really suggest you get them at this size.

Do you have a large email (gmail maybe) account I can send these to, or MSN so we can file share?

PM so we can get this happening.

Also, sorry for the delay - I have so much going on now that arcade machines have to take a backseat for a few months :(

Fuzz.
"My cab is nearly finished, no really I swear!"

Stingray

  • Official Slacker - I promise to try a lot less
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10463
  • Last login:April 08, 2021, 03:43:54 pm
Re: LED credit display
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2006, 11:07:29 am »
Didn't alot of NeoGeo cabinets have just what you are describing.
yes,its called a credit transfer system

Any ideas on where I can find one of these things? or even where I can find some info about them? Like if they can run independently of the main neo-geo pcb?


They plug into the main NEO-GEO PCB and not into anything on the coin door. I'm not saying that it wouldn't be possible to make one work without the NEO-GEO PCB, but it would certainly take quite a lot of electronics know-how. Having said this, I think that Witchboard may still have one for sale if you want to get one to play around with. Shoot him a PM.

-S
« Last Edit: September 26, 2006, 11:58:29 am by Stingray »
Stingray you magnificent bastard!
This place is dead lately.  Stingray scare everyone off?

richms

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 596
  • Last login:January 07, 2025, 06:42:57 pm
  • s92a sucks
    • richms.com
Re: LED credit display
« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2006, 11:23:30 am »
Interesting concept, Not ever seen it myself, but NZ is the land of bastardized generic cabinets so that is not suprising.

What you could possibly do is just drive the displays off the printer port of the PC, and write an app to manage them rather then dicking around with hardware. A couple of latches would do the trick, or an led wiz. I dont see the point in a dedicated microcontroller when there is an easier way.

Make the app so that the actual coinslot maps to a key that mame doesnt use, and then the button signals the app to send a coin key into mame assuming that credits allow for it and then also decriment the display by 1.

lhallmark

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14
  • Last login:January 13, 2010, 04:55:18 am
Re: LED credit display
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2006, 11:15:05 pm »
I am probably way off base here but could you use the program that is used in the "Varsity Club" cabinet to display the game titles on the LED Display panel to read and display the credits on a smaller credit display?
Lance

Safety Harbor, FL

NightGod

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1052
  • Last login:July 26, 2017, 06:59:58 pm
Re: LED credit display
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2006, 11:56:35 pm »
I am probably way off base here but could you use the program that is used in the "Varsity Club" cabinet to display the game titles on the LED Display panel to read and display the credits on a smaller credit display?

Totally different animal, though a good idea, in concept. I think Richms' may be the least complicated/inexpensive solution.
$6.75 the hard way-one quarter at a time.