Is Foley really the devil..?? (Previously: RetroBlast is a traitor..??)

[IntruderAlert]

From what I can tell, JoshuaOS is some sort of Unix derivative. If a bunch of us were to put a little cash together and get the $1000 conversion kit (and then perhaps return it after we realize it's crap) - what chances do you think we'd have of someone here deciphering the emulator code from the OS?

I'm sure by buying one of these machines you're required to subject yourself to an EULA.  I would presume this EULA would include a clause where you would have to agree not to reverse engineer his product.

the possibility of Ultracade illegally using MAME code is something that the MAME devs should be concerned with
but perhaps not something for us to determine for them

[JoyMonkey]

the possibility of Ultracade illegally using MAME code is something that the MAME devs should be concerned with
but perhaps not something for us to determine for them

True, I just wish someone would get it done so people can start sending DF cease and desist letters.

[IntruderAlert]

anyone just joining in, please go back and at least read over pages 5 and 6

[rackoon]

CHANGE THE NAME OF THE THREAD!

Retroblast is not a traitor! Kevin acts as a Consumer Reports service.

   His website helped me and, I am sure it helped many of you. Yea, he pissed off some folks (allot of folks, me included). In his defence I would like to point out that he is a non paid source of MAME product review.
   Yea, I know that he is too nice in some of his reviews YET, he does tell you which one he recommends over another (from that we can all figure out which product is best). {hell, if ya still got a question regarding a product email him, he will respond}.
    If he was brutal in a small market, no one would send him a product for review, then we would lose this outlet.
    So, In order to be fare lets start a new thread called Foley sucks, Foley is a ---smurfette---, Foley is a ass bandit, Foley likes to touch young -- well you  get point.
     
      I believe that the rest of this thread should be focused on  the  re-direction of this thread.\
   
     I also believe that this is one of the most important topic of our day so don't call me a traitor.
    \
     This is the most important topic regarding MAME at this time. Let's addresses it properly.

[Shape D.]

    So, In order to be fare lets start a new thread called Foley sucks, Foley is a ---auto-censored---, Foley is a ---censored by Shape D.--- bandit, Foley likes to touch young -- well you  get point.

I would advise against a thread with that name, thats what you call libel. It wouldn't suprise me ito find out foley would sue over something like that

[IntruderAlert]

Why? Did he already apply for the trademarks?
..sorry.. i couldn't help myself

[spriggy]

CHANGE THE NAME OF THE THREAD!

Retroblast is not a traitor! Kevin acts as a Consumer Reports service....

[saint]

o, In order to be fare lets start a new thread called Foley sucks, Foley is a ---auto-censored---, Foley is a ass bandit, Foley likes to touch young -- well you  get point.

No, don't do that. Debate, lament, chastize, disagree with, and otherwise comment on his actions, but do not attack the man personally, his mother, his dog, make sexual innuendos, or otherwise personally attack the man on my forums. This isn't specific to Dave Foley -- re-read the rules please. Don't do that to anyone on my forums.

Thank you.

--- saint

[saint]

Dave Foley is a registered user of this forum.

--- saint

What makes everyone so sure he's not one of us. There are near 6400 registered users here.

Maybe all of the dick-heads of the past, present, and future have been / are / or will be DF... 

Things that make ya go hmmmm


-Goz

[Crazy Cooter]

Too bad he never posts.  I've got a few questions for him.  Seriously, I do.  I know he'd just delete them on his board and it probably wouldn't be the best place to have the discussion anyhow.

Suppose Kevin didn't review his stuff... who would?  That's why I'd like to see him shunned out of our lives.

[HoopstarsGarage]

Due to the constant PM's regarding the topic of this thread, I have bowed to the pressure (as seems to be the thing to do these days  ) and changed the topic..

That said, I do NOT think that subject titles should be changed to suit the flavour of the thread, rather the thread should follow the original topic - in other words, this thread should have remained on topic.  I have a very strong view on the original subject and it was Kevins own response that actually swayed me to change the subject.  For the record, I think Kevin and his site do so much for this hobby and I have a great deal of respect for both - I guess it was with this in mind and the shock that he may have strayed to the dark side for the initial post.

Anyway, back to bashing Foley - thanks guys

Hoops

[IntruderAlert]

Dave Foley is a registered user of this forum.

--- saint

Is that Dave?

http://www.newsradioart.com/Pages/IntroDave.html

..or David R. ?

http://www.ultracade.com/news/93/ultracade8482-gets-playmeters-cover-story

hey look!! Dave's got an new haircut and beard just like David R.!!!
...hmmm  wonder if they're related

[KevSteele]

Just ran across this item in PlayMeter's news:

UltraCade ranked 48th in Entrepreneur and PricewaterhouseCoopers 11th Hot 100 List

UltaCade Technologies has been ranked 48th in the Entrepreneur magazine 11th Annual Hot 100 List of the fastest-growing new companies in the United States. This year's listing was assembled from an initial list of companies compiled by PricewaterhouseCoopers.

David Foley, CEO and Founder of UltraCade, said, "One of our secrets to success is to plan for the best case scenario and prepare for the worst case scenario. Of course, our success cannot be attributed to a single piece of advice. We have been fortunate to be able to build a very talented and dedicated team of individuals who are passionate about their work. Everyone has gone above and beyond the call of duty and put in many long hours and weekends to help build the company and our world-class products. We have been able to achieve an amazing amount of results from a very limited budget and relatively small team. I'm very proud of what we have accomplished." For more information, call (408)436-8885; Web (www.ultracade.com).

Don't know what to make of it, other than that he's always in promotion mode, isn't he?

Kevin

[IntruderAlert]

Dave Navarro and
Carmen Electra are two of many stars
that have UltraCade multi-game systems in their homes.

http://www.playmeter.com/0505coverstory.htm

[Tiger-Heli]

There was an attached graphic as well, a "before and after" sort of thing:

Everyone does realize that this graphic currently only shows up the first time you run a game and can currently be avoided altogether by placing and blank gamename.ini file in your .ini folder (even without the -show disclaimer flag), correct?

[quarterback]

There was an attached graphic as well, a "before and after" sort of thing:

Everyone does realize that this graphic currently only shows up the first time you run a game and can currently be avoided altogether by placing and blank gamename.ini file in your .ini folder (even without the -show disclaimer flag), correct?

Are you talking about the iRoms disclaimer?

[Tiger-Heli]

There was an attached graphic as well, a "before and after" sort of thing:

Everyone does realize that this graphic currently only shows up the first time you run a game and can currently be avoided altogether by placing and blank gamename.ini file in your .ini folder (even without the -show disclaimer flag), correct?

Are you talking about the iRoms disclaimer?

I-roms (Foley) is talking about changing the legal disclaimer to call out your licensed I-Roms.

[quarterback]

There was an attached graphic as well, a "before and after" sort of thing:

Everyone does realize that this graphic currently only shows up the first time you run a game and can currently be avoided altogether by placing and blank gamename.ini file in your .ini folder (even without the -show disclaimer flag), correct?

Are you talking about the iRoms disclaimer?

I-roms (Foley) is talking about changing the legal disclaimer to call out your licensed I-Roms.

Right, I was just wondering about your statement that "this graphic currently only shows up the first time you run a game" and whether or not that was a statement about Foley's I-Rom disclaimer or the current Mame disclaimer.

I guess you're saying that you were referring to both of them because you're referring to the I-Roms disclaimer as simply being a changed version of the Mame disclaimer, yes?   

I was only asking because I wasn't sure that the 'rules' that apply to a Mame disclaimer showing up or not, will apply to an I-Rom version.

[Tiger-Heli]

Yes, I am!   

Right, I was just wondering about your statement that "this graphic currently only shows up the first time you run a game" and whether or not that was a statement about Foley's I-Rom disclaimer or the current Mame disclaimer.

I was talking about how it works now, and assuming that the only changes Foley would get the dev's to make would be to change the image if his .LIC file was detected.

I guess you're saying that you were referring to both of them because you're referring to the I-Roms disclaimer as simply being a changed version of the Mame disclaimer, yes?   

Right.

I was only asking because I wasn't sure that the 'rules' that apply to a Mame disclaimer showing up or not, will apply to an I-Rom version.

True, too!  (I'm the one who initially posted that the dev's could also decide not to publish the source code and not to make any roms load unless a .LIC file was detected.)

[IntruderAlert]

I was only asking because I wasn't sure that the 'rules' that apply to a Mame disclaimer showing up or not, will apply to an I-Rom version.

True, too!  (I'm the one who initially posted that the dev's could also decide not to publish the source code and not to make any roms load unless a .LIC file was detected.)

I'll bet you made Foley really happy when you said that

[Haze]

MAME is 'open source' (technically not true Open Source, we use our own license) and its staying that way.  Any paranoia over Mame going closed source, or linking to closed source libaries is uncalled for.  Remember, our focus is on creating a technical documentation project, the source is the most important thing to us, otoh we couldn't care less if nobody ever distributed any binaries.

[Tiger-Heli]

MAME is 'open source' (technically not true Open Source, we use our own license) and its staying that way.  Any paranoia over Mame going closed source, or linking to closed source libaries is uncalled for.  Remember, our focus is on creating a technical documentation project, the source is the most important thing to us, otoh we couldn't care less if nobody ever distributed any binaries.

Thanks Haze, glad you're on here.

Okay, so mame won't go closed source, but they could post binaries that only worked with Foley Roms and then only made the compile environment available to the dev team members. . .

[rackoon]

I apologize for going over the top with my comments,
(SORRY SAINT). I love your forum and your book; I wont do it again.

 

[Haze]

MAME is 'open source' (technically not true Open Source, we use our own license) and its staying that way.  Any paranoia over Mame going closed source, or linking to closed source libaries is uncalled for.  Remember, our focus is on creating a technical documentation project, the source is the most important thing to us, otoh we couldn't care less if nobody ever distributed any binaries.

Thanks Haze, glad you're on here.

Okay, so mame won't go closed source, but they could post binaries that only worked with Foley Roms and then only made the compile environment available to the dev team members. . .

Can't see it happening, as I said, we don't really care about the binaries, and it would go against the principals of open source development to post binaries for which the source wasn't available.

Foley can't do it either as the license says the source must be available and no linking can be done against closed binaries.

Short of Aaron or Nicola giving him pemission to distribute his own version nothing can be done.  Will somebody give him permission?  Who knows, seems doubtful to me as its quite feasible for him to work with whats already available.

Verificaiton screens like the ones shown wouldn't work anyway, we're already fighting a losing batle against people creating Mame with modifications we don't like, and somebody is sure to create one that tells you all the roms are legal, so whats the point?

At the end of the day if Foley wants to license and sell roms then nobody is going to stop him, hes perfectly within his rights to do so, and the chance to purchase legal roms is something a fair number of people would like to see, however, if he ends up making people go out of their way to use the roms they've purchased then hes only severely reducing his target audience which isn't a sound business practice.

As I said, it seems like paranoia to me, short of Foley employing suicidal business techniques 'iRoms' seems like a good idea, except for the name which is probably going to have Apple knocking at his door quicker than he can say Pacman.

[IntruderAlert]

One thing I am concerned about is that by looking at several comments by Foley and other Ultracade employees on their forum it appears that they don't actually own the rights to very many roms in the first place.

[shmokes]

the possibility of Ultracade illegally using MAME code is something that the MAME devs should be concerned with
but perhaps not something for us to determine for them

Bah...nonsense.  It is in the interest of everyone in the world who uses MAME to expose David Foley, if he is in fact using MAME code in his Ultracade machines.  And maybe the MAME devs would love to know if he's doing that, but don't have the time or money to find out.

EULA be damned.  What's he going to do if someone digs around and finds out he's got illegal code in there....sue them for reverse engineering "his" product?

[IntruderAlert]

I've heard stranger stories..

Let me know how that turns out for you

[RetroJames]

Well I have been concentrating on other things for a while and I poke in here only to see Kev Steele getting hammered for his DF related reviews.

I read the thread up to Kev's first response and decided I would drop my $0.02.

For what it is worth, IMHO The man is truly a great guy and he really loves this hobby.  I had the oppourtunity to write some reviews for RetroBlast and from the first effort through all after it, Kevin was supportive, helpful, generous beyond belief, and totally and honestly excited about the hobby and everything it represented.

When the DF situation developed, Kevin was at the forefront grilling DF about his actions, hammering away when DF spoke in circles, and basically took him to task.  It was obvious from my perspective, as I was communicating regularly with Kevin at the time, that someone had pissed in his yard and he was not happy.  He was defending the hobby, and many who have contributed to it.

Since then he has made the decision to review UC items.  I applaud him for that.  RetroBlast is nothing if it is not true to the audience.  That means honest reviews, objective writing, and fair dealings.  By deciding to review UC products he is abiding by that commitment. 

If I am a newbie to the hobby, and I stumble on Ultracade products, who will help me decide if they are right for what I want to do?  Should I base my decisions on the IP fight regarding mame?  Should I form an opinion based on the rantings of overzealous slashdot subscribers?  Who is there to help?  Kevin Steele at RetroBlast is.

At the end of the day, if I am building a cabinet, or wanting to buy one, I want an honest assesment of what I am getting myself into.  What has always been great about this hobby, part of the reason I was and am drawn to it, is that most everyone is there to help.  "Need a graphic?"  "Ok, I'll do it!"  "I have a cp, do you have a steering wheel?"  "Cool, let's trade."  "I can't figure this out!"  "It's ok, we'll help."

I don't want someone dictating who I should and should not deal with.  I honestly don't care that DF snatched the mame logo/emu, then gave it back.  Mame devs should have done it first, and frankly it might have been someone else who might not be willing to give it back.  DF got what he wanted, more restrictions on his competition.  Mame devs got what they needed, a little legitimacy and the power to enforce it.  I need someone to help me decide what to buy and why based on the product's merits compared to other similarly priced options.  I am no lottery winner and my free time is dwindling.  I need help to make decisions, not a mob to follow.

Kevin is there first and foremost to have fun.  Kev could have that fun and leave the rest of us to rot.  Instead, he grinds away feeding the RetroBlast content monster to provide a little knowledge for newbies and oscar's alike. 

He does it for the community.  The exchanging of ideas with different people that have disparate backgrounds, but are all drawn like moths to the same pixelated flames. 

And god forbid he does it for the occasional freebie keeper and I do mean occasional.  He gives the vast majority away to contibuting reviewers and contest winners or reviews items and sends them back from whence they came. He laid out his ad revenue, for the effort, he could make more at Mickey Dees.  I pray that Sony calls him one day and drops a wicked ad campaign on him and he retires in a sunny paradise.

Like I said, Kev is there for the fun and that's what this whole hobby is about.  When that CRT crackles, the marquee blinks on, and you hear the hard drive start to spin, you know it's fun time.  You know it's arcadetime.  You know it's mame time.  You know from the first zap to the last fanfare, you can be transported back to a period in your life when the whole world was before you and everything was possible.  A time when a few bucks at an arcade, a sony walkman on your hip, and a few friends to 1up for the best score, was all you needed while you found your way through the maze of youth.  Life was good. 

Thank heaven there are people like Kevin at RetroBlast, Saint - our BYOAC host, Oscar - the resident "gizmo", Randy T at http://www.groovygamegear.com, Lucid, Nannu (builder of the oldest DIY arcade cabinet so far), 1UP, Matty@playpinball.net, Bob Roberts, Barrie at OneSwitch, Videotopia, the folks at Mameworld, the MAME Devs, and all the others I am regretfully too tired to remember that make this hobby an absolute blast back to the past.

Lastly, Eugene Jarvis should be canonized in the Church of Video Games.

James at RetroBlast Dot Com

[ray_slup]

yea what he said

[IntruderAlert]

I think everyone agreed that Kev's a great guy
..thus the title change

[Crazy Cooter]

Well I have been concentrating on other things for a while...

Since then he has made the decision to review UC items.

[KevSteele]

If Kevin didn't review Fooley's crap, he wouldn't be dictating anything.

[MrTroy]

Oooh Can I write reviews at Retro Blast? I want a Troyd at retroblast dot com email addy.

[u_rebelscum]

Under this comparison, I don't think anyone here can say that the dog will never bite again.  Why then are we supporting the dog and trying to keep him around?  Let's get rid of the dog.  Stop petting him, stop feeding him, just stop dealing with him at all.  Then he goes away...  Otherwise we're just waiting to get bit (again & again & again & again).

Cooter, you seem like a logical person.  Since he bit us first while we were ignoring him in the first place[/a], why would ignoring him now stop him from bitting again?   It won't work (again).  Two ways to get rid of a dog: shoot 'em, or give 'em to a caring person the next county over.  Ignoring is not shooting, it's more like temping 'em to try to grab you attention (such as by bitting, again).


I'm with 1hookedspacecadet.  If foley lets Kev give an unrestricted review (ie: without threats for posting the truth), Kev should review the mother------.  [shrug]  Not that I'll buy one, but information is power.

[Tiger-Heli]

Somewhat, I agree with Crazy Cooter's comments, but I am see a parallel with my pending review of the KB16 encoder.

The review will be factual and actually will be helpful to users, but it will also highly much of the misinformation being put out about the product.

On the one hand, I hate to write it, b/c it gives the product some more publicity and legitimacy.  On the other hand, if I don't people will keep buying them on FleaBay b/c no one is around to warn them away.

And again, I also realize that thanks to Kevin's generosity, I didn't receive the unit from Mattp, so all I really have to worry about would be any possible libelous statements I might make.  And I thing I can walk close to that line without crossing it.

[KevSteele]

Oooh Can I write reviews at Retro Blast? I want a Troyd at retroblast dot com email addy.

Well, if you're willing to crank out the reviews like James did (before life jumped him and made off with his free time  ) I'm certainly open to giving out an email account.

Kevin

[monkeybomb]

Oooh Can I write reviews at Retro Blast? I want a Troyd at retroblast dot com email addy.

Well, if you're willing to crank out the reviews like James did (before life jumped him and made off with his free time  ) I'm certainly open to giving out an email account.

Kevin

Could I be davidrfoley@retroblast.com?

[Witchboard]

Oooh Can I write reviews at Retro Blast? I want a Troyd at retroblast dot com email addy.

Well, if you're willing to crank out the reviews like James did (before life jumped him and made off with his free time

[KevSteele]

Oooh Can I write reviews at Retro Blast? I want a Troyd at retroblast dot com email addy.

Well, if you're willing to crank out the reviews like James did (before life jumped him and made off with his free time

[Witchboard]

('course, I see the obvious joke has already been grabbed before I could finish typing this...ptooey )

Sorry for stealing your thunder, I just couldn't pass on a good rib.