Is Foley really the devil..?? (Previously: RetroBlast is a traitor..??)

[IntruderAlert]

I like that new article on your front page Kev.
I have much the same sentiments as you do about the current state of console gaming.
I'm still interested in it but I honestly can't remember the last time I finished one completely.
One thing that I'd really like to see on your site is some pinball machine video reviews beginning with your own Attack from Mars machine.
That would be so cool

[KevSteele]

You're right Ray
The only topic I could find asking about iroms in the ultracade forum basically gave a "no comment" in reply.

Maybe it's time to update your front page with something more interesting and useful to the community Kev

I received another email from David Foley, and he's indicated that he's getting final preparations ready for the iROMs service, so it looks like it's definitely a go.

Current plans are for a DRM-free ROM service, possibly with a ".LIC" license file added to the ROMs showing that the ROMs are authorized/registered. With changes to MAME, it could recognize that ROMs are licensed and not display the "disclaimer" screen when launching that game. (not that that screen's a major inconvenience as it is, but it is some small reward for those who go "legit")

We'll see how it the system works when it's released, but it does seem to be moving forward.

(Oh, and I did change the front page to something hopefully less controversial

[IntruderAlert]

Did he mention MAME specifically?

[Tiger-Heli]

Current plans are for a DRM-free ROM service, possibly with a ".LIC" license file added to the ROMs showing that the ROMs are authorized/registered. With changes to MAME, it could recognize that ROMs are licensed and not display the "disclaimer" screen when launching that game. (not that that screen's a major inconvenience as it is, but it is some small reward for those who go "legit")

With changes to MAME, it could also stop distributing the source code, and not run the games unless it found the appropriate .lic file.

Not that older versions would ever be affected.

[pointdablame]

Current plans are for a DRM-free ROM service, possibly with a ".LIC" license file added to the ROMs showing that the ROMs are authorized/registered. With changes to MAME, it could recognize that ROMs are licensed and not display the "disclaimer" screen when launching that game. (not that that screen's a major inconvenience as it is, but it is some small reward for those who go "legit")

With changes to MAME, it could also stop distributing the source code, and not run the games unless it found the appropriate .lic file.

Not that older versions would ever be affected.

which would probably then start an Internet-wide trend of pirating .lic files....

[IntruderAlert]

by the way..
this kid has already written some sort of web application called IROMS
http://www.livejournal.com/users/compupc1/

oh.. and if anyone has a few bucks to spare:
http://dnbidder.com/view_domain.php?id=169&PHPSESSID=f445d4fccdd832d15df23f958eee322b

[Crazy Cooter]

Did he mention MAME specifically?

I'm also interested in that...

[Crazy Cooter]

Current plans are for a DRM-free ROM service...
possibly with a ".LIC" license file added to the ROMs showing that the ROMs are authorized/registered.

So.... how is that considered "DRM free"?  And how is he pitching it to companies without knowing what he is pitching?  Sounds like a pile of BS to me.  "Final preparations... but I don't know how it's actually going to work..."

[IntruderAlert]

as a side note.. didn't  Ultracade have unlicensed  Namco ROMS in their machines at one time?

[KevSteele]

Current plans are for a DRM-free ROM service...
possibly with a ".LIC" license file added to the ROMs showing that the ROMs are authorized/registered.

So.... how is that considered "DRM free"?

[KevSteele]

as a side note.. didn't

[JoyMonkey]

as a side note.. didn't  Ultracade have unlicensed  Namco ROMS in their machines at one time?

I believe they had some sort of agreement with Namco, but that agreement was pulled (for whatever reason) and Ultracade was forced to tell all of their customers to remove the Namco ROMs.

I don't think they were originally unlicensed, but I wonder what happened to led Namco to yank them...

Kevin

I'd say Namco thought it would be best to keep their roms to themselves since I'm sure their own Reunion machines generate more revenue than selling rights to Ultracade.

[Zakk]

Out of curiosity, why would mamedev want to add functionality for something that would only serve to make dave fooly money?  Since their stated purpose is to archive the games for the ages, why would they care if he wants to make legit roms, that only he has the right to sell?  Seems a bit far fetched.  I think if fooley wants to sell games he should write his own 'commercial' emulator for his legal roms.

[Tiger-Heli]

Out of curiosity, why would mamedev want to add functionality for something that would only serve to make dave fooly money?  Since their stated purpose is to archive the games for the ages, why would they care if he wants to make legit roms, that only he has the right to sell?  Seems a bit far fetched.  I think if fooley wants to sell games he should write his own 'commercial' emulator for his legal roms.

My guess would be if NAMCO (et. al.) threatened to sue them under the "incitement to commit copyright infringement" clause if they continued to support unlicensed ROMs.

[RayB]

Out of curiosity, why would mamedev want to add functionality for something that would only serve to make dave fooly money?

[dema]

I too received an email from Dave Foley. Apparently he is selling his two young children and his octagenarian mother to anyone interested...dirt cheap.

He said something about them not paying their rent on time, and that he's not running a halfway house for a bunch of dead-beats, no matter how old they are.

[KevSteele]

Out of curiosity, why would mamedev want to add functionality for something that would only serve to make dave fooly money?

[MameMaster!]

" Foley paid the folks that owned the rights to these games a pile of royalties (apparently) for licenses.

[IntruderAlert]

The regular warnings are bad enough but if I have to see that IROMS message all the time..
.. i was going to post a picture but you don't want to see that

it would be better if the message was just completely removed

[KevSteele]

The regular warnings are bad enough but if I have to see that IROMS message all the time..
.. i was going to post a picture but you don't want to see that

it would be better if the message was just completely removed

I would certainly hope that the MAMEdevs leave in the startup flag to suppress those disclaimer screens. Who knows if any of this will end up in MAME, anyway...

Kevin

[spriggy]

Damn...a marathon thread can really bring out the best in people!
 

[JoyMonkey]

How many games is he planning of having available on iRoms? It wouldn't surprise me if he ignores the copyright holders completely and throws every game in Mame onto iRoms. then starts removing them when the real owners complain. He could just tell them "Oh, well, nobody bought your roms, so I don't owe you any money."

He'll always be a scumbag in my book. I can't see anyone here ever using iRoms. Even if PCB prices are going way up- it feels a lot better having a games PCB in your closet than having a LIC file in your rom.
People are going to start making 'Boycott iRoms' signatures any minute now...

[monkeybomb]

How is foley going to find the time to dump all the ROMs he is going to sell?


I just can't see myself doing this.  MAMEdev gets no money, dumpers get nothing, but Foley gets cash as a middle man.  I'm just not into it.  He even wants to pee on all the ROMS with his company name.  Forget it.

If it were someone else then yes I'd like the license to the games I play, but not like this.

[Zakk]

I'm kind of with monkeybomb on this.  If it were almost anyone else, I don't think I'd mind shelling out some cash for 'supposedly' legal copies of roms, but I can't justify giving any profit to him.

Of course, considering his price tag on a cabinet, I could see $100 each per rom on his insipid service.

 "Oh, but that's less than you could buy the real game for!" -DF

[DreamArcades]

As for the overly-positive reviews: yes, I get enthusastic. But have you considered the fact that I may have actually liked most the products I've reviewed? I realize that you may not agree with my reviews, but I've never claimed to be anything other than an arcade enthusiast sharing my opinions.

I have bit my tongue long enough. Some readers may have noticed that I have been decidedly quite about all the MAME stuff going on. This is at the advice of my lawyer, but trust me it's hard to keep my mouth shut with so many important things going on in the MAME community right now.

Now that people are criticizing Kevin I think I must speak. I don

[rchadd]

The regular warnings are bad enough but if I have to see that IROMS message all the time..
.. i was going to post a picture but you don't want to see that

it would be better if the message was just completely removed

just imagine everytime you play a game you see ultracade and foleys name - talk about rubbing our noses in it

time for me to order DVDs with latest rom set i think...

[JoyMonkey]

Of course, considering his price tag on a cabinet, I could see $100 each per rom on his insipid service.

 "Oh, but that's less than you could buy the real game for!" -DF

You have to remember that the cabinets that Ultracade sells right now are for commercial use, so I'd image he's got to pay a hell of a lot more than for roms that are for home use. If that's the case, roms for home use should be pretty cheap. (at least they should be- I'm still not convinced that anything this guy does is legit anymore).

On a related note, how do we know that DF really has the rights to sell us the roms he's planning on selling? He'd better plan on getting some representatives of each company to make public statements stating that they have given him permission to sell the roms to the general public for home use.

[IntruderAlert]

Mike - I've gotta agree with what you said there
Thanks for speaking up

The regular warnings are bad enough but if I have to see that IROMS message all the time..
.. i was going to post a picture but you don't want to see that

it would be better if the message was just completely removed

just imagine everytime you play a game you see ultracade and foleys name - talk about rubbing our noses in it

time for me to order DVDs with latest rom set i think...

what the heck do you think .LIC stands for anyway?
every time it pops up Foley's saying ".LIC my butt!"

You have to remember that the cabinets that Ultracade sells right now are for commercial use,

Their "Arcade Legends" line is home use only and runs around $3000.00

[JoyMonkey]

You have to remember that the cabinets that Ultracade sells right now are for commercial use,

Their "Arcade Legends" line is home use only and runs around $3000.00

Yeowch! I wasn't aware of that; I thought all their machines were commercially licensed. If they do try to sell iRoms as similar prices, I don't think they're going to get much business from anyone.

[IntruderAlert]

here's a link for verification
http://www.bmigaming.com/arcadelegends.htm

[JoyMonkey]

here's a link for verification
http://www.bmigaming.com/arcadelegends.htm

Sweet mother of Robotron! Those prices are nothing short of criminal! So who's buying this crap? Is it just Costco customers with too much cash burning holes in their pockets? I just can't see how there'd be a market for home machines priced like this???

[IntruderAlert]

Check this out:
http://www.bmigaming.com/arcadelegends-blastpac.htm
"Arcade Legends Blast Pack"
Ok this is an "Arcade Legends" game pack "home use only"
You get 7 games:
Defender
Joust
KLAX
Robotron : 2084
Stargate
Tapper
Toobin

 All for JUST $ 275 !!!

That's only about $40 per game kids...

BUT WAIT!!
THAT'S NOT THE BEST PART!!!

You only get that fabulous price when you order this pack along with the system.
If you order it later it's ONLY ( * $375 if ordered after your initial game purchase )

..which = a little over $53 per game

but remember .. this is only for the "Arcade Legends" "HOME USE ONLY" cab OK

[JoyMonkey]

Wow! He needs to get a guy with a brittish accent to do an info-mercial for this crap.
I honestly had no idea that he was openly raping the public like this. I was imagining that he'd be selling iRoms at a similar price as StarRoms (not that I would ever give a penny to Ultracade, but I 'm in shock that he's actually selling games at these prices).
How much are the Ultracade commercial cabs?

Edit: I just checked some Ultracade prices at Happ, and the machines for comercial use actually seem to cost LESS than the ones for home use! WTF!

[Crazy Cooter]

There was an attached graphic as well, a "before and after" sort of thing:

Nobody is going to pay Foley monet to replace "type OK" with "All your ROM's are belong to us... D. Foley".

[IntruderAlert]

Wow! He needs to get a guy with a brittish accent to do an info-mercial for this crap.
I honestly had no idea that he was openly raping the public like this. I was imagining that he'd be selling iRoms at a similar price as StarRoms (not that I would ever give a penny to Ultracade, but I 'm in shock that he's actually selling games at these prices).
How much are the Ultracade commercial cabs?

Edit: I just checked some Ultracade prices at Happ, and the machines for comercial use actually seem to cost LESS than the ones for home use! WTF!

Wow! He needs to get a guy with a brittish accent to do an info-mercial for this crap.
I honestly had no idea that he was openly raping the public like this. I was imagining that he'd be selling iRoms at a similar price as StarRoms (not that I would ever give a penny to Ultracade, but I 'm in shock that he's actually selling games at these prices).
How much are the Ultracade commercial cabs?

Edit: I just checked some Ultracade prices at Happ, and the machines for comercial use actually seem to cost LESS than the ones for home use! WTF!

It depends on the configuration
Check out this page:
http://www.bmigaming.com/ultracadefaq.htm#UltracadeModels

You can spend over $7000 if you want

[IntruderAlert]

There was an attached graphic as well, a "before and after" sort of thing:

http://retroblast.com/photos/misc/iroms.gif

Nobody is going to pay Foley monet to replace "type OK" with "All your ROM's are belong to us... D. Foley".

[JoyMonkey]

... with a history like that it DOES make you wonder whether the .LIC licence you'll get with iROMS means anything at all 

I'm willing to bet I could sell you a licence that's just as legit for a lot less. Want a genuine Rolex watch with that? Hows about some Oakley sunglasses or a Burberry handbag?

[KevSteele]

Heh...BMI Gaming is well known in the pinball community as a major ripoff company, so it's no surprise that they're selling Ultracade's cabs, and at the prices quoted.

For everyone who hasn't already, be sure and check out the Ultracade site - it's been overhauled, and he's got a whole bunch of new stuff, such as standalone control panels, encoders, and more:

http://www.ultracade.com/accessories

None of it has prices yet, and lots of "coming soon" signs. This leads me to believe he's planning a major push into the "home retrogaming market", with iROMs leading the way.

I definitely feel he's permanently lost out on the MAME crowd, but I wonder if there's any market left beyond our community for arcade retrogaming? How many arcade fans are there out there that don't know about MAME, I wonder? Will product like this sell in stores? Is it enough to build a business on?

Still lots of questions, but I guess we'll see soon enough what's up...

Kevin

[IntruderAlert]

oh.. you're always so darn optimistic!

[KevSteele]

oh.. you're always so darn optimistic!

Oh, I'm always very positive...positive that something bad is going to happen. 

Kevin