Is Foley really the devil..?? (Previously: RetroBlast is a traitor..??)

[HoopstarsGarage]

Just read the latest entry on RetroBlast where he has pimped himself off to Foley and is going to review his product and all but backs him and his stand on MAME...

This makes me sick and I for one will NEVER read another article published on RetroBlast - when you are <censored by saint, but it was reproductive in nature> the devil, you are just as evil..  Makes me wonder how much Foley has paid Kevin to turn to the dark side.

[saint]

I, for one, welcome our new MAME(tm) overlords!

(For the humor impaired, that is a joke)

[AlanS17]

Well the concept of paying for individual ROMs seems fair enough. Depends on how much they're asking for, though. It's hard to pay $50 for a ROM.

And what would that do to those people who have game boards for the ROMs they use?

[M3talhead]

Just read the latest entry on RetroBlast where he has pimped himself off to Foley and is going to review his product and all but backs him and his stand on MAME...

This makes me sick and I for one will NEVER read another article published on RetroBlast - when you are <censored by saint, but it was reproductive in nature> the devil, you are just as evil..  Makes me wonder how much Foley has paid Kevin to turn to the dark side.

Did you ever consider the possibility that he is reviewing the Ultracrap machines because nobody else has? I commend him for keeping an open mind in reviewing arcade products. Its just as good to know what products are crap and what's worth looking into. In addition, by reviewing Ultracrap units, we can further laugh at the ridiculous amounts of money this guy is charging for his rigs.

 I really don't think anyone here likes Mr. Foley or the skidmark he rubbed on the MAME scene, but what it really boils down to is the law. Now don't get me wrong, I was one of the biggest proponents of Foley's plan, but whats right is right, and whether you agree with it or not, copyrights are copyrights. If you have Roms you didn't pay for on your machine (which should amount to just about everyone who's ever read these forums) guess what, you've broken the law.

Now, while the FBI might not be rapping on your door, Kevin is right about one thing. With so many publishers releasing "nostalgic" packs for PC and console systems, this community is going to receive a lot more attention from the media and IP lawyers.

As for Kevin backing Foley, if you read more than the first sentence on the main page, you'd realize that he's kept his stance on the trademark fight this whole time. What he's doing is saying what everyone is thinking: That the time has come to deal with that "800 lb gorilla" known as pirated Roms.

[quarterback]

I, for one, welcome our new MAME(tm) overlords!

In Russia, MAME(tm) welcomes *you*

[Prizmdrop]

Sorry kev, but I have to disagree with this. It

[shadowdrak]

I don't really see the problem here.

[monkeybomb]

I don't think Kevin is getting a thing from foley!!!!!!!!!


I do disagree with the idea of foley somehow being good for us.  We do need leagal ROMS for this to coninue, but foley is and will never be an answer.  He is the worst kind of scumbag buisness man without a care in the world but his own wallet.  I don't think having this guy handle something as important as the leagalization of ROMS is going to be good for any of us.  I would love to see iroms come out, just with a different guy in charge.

[Zakk]

I don't like the direction this is going at all.

[Q*Bert_OP]

Well the concept of paying for individual ROMs seems fair enough. Depends on how much they're asking for, though. It's hard to pay $50 for a ROM.

And what would that do to those people who have game boards for the ROMs they use?

It's not $50 per game it's like $350 for frogger, $525 for Pac Man, Ect.

[shadowdrak]

All I am saying is that we should wait before we pass judgement.  I doubt he is getting any money out of this, so i don't know if "sold out" would be the proper way to put it.  We don't have all the information here, and free products to review are a lot different than kickbacks.  Things have a way of becoming crystal-clear if you give them enough time.  So all i propose is, we give Kevin some slack until we can discern his motives.  Give peace a chance people.

[Fat_Trucker]

All ground thats been covered before but I think RetroBlasts statement is misleading.

If David Foley and Ultracade had simply tried to TM mame to make a statement and kickstart his campaign to drive pirates and software theft into the light then I don't think anyone would argue.

However, at the time he filed for the trademark he then contacted anyone and everyone using anything mame related demanding royalties. I fail to see how demanding a royalty from an artwork vendor for example, stating that he owned the trademark to mame was anything to do with combating illegal roms, it was a purely opportunistic grab for the cash.

i-roms or something similar is a fantastic idea, however I remain sceptical judging from the ridiculous prices Ultracade charge for their current products that i-roms will represent anything resembling value for money.

I will be reserving my judgment until we see how things pan out, but it seems a little risky on Retroblasts part to so actively endorse David Foley's actions and his upcoming i-roms service. Considering the mans recent behaviour, he is not someone I would put my confidence in so quickly and openly.

[Tahnok]

I, for one, welcome our new MAME(tm) overlords!

In Russia, MAME(tm) welcomes *you*

Or

In Soviet Russia, Ultracade plays you!

Or

Ultracade, the arcade cab that watches back.

[darktemp]

"To error is human, but to forgive, well that's right on!" -Vince Vaughn

Well I'm not right on because I still don't forgive Roley Foley and I can't believe Retroblast would review his products.  If nothing else the review is going to help advertise his products. 

I hope the free stuff is worth it.

[jelwell]

I'm just surprised it took people this long to realize that Foley was generally right. Someone needed to enforce MAME's license (now a trademark as well) and since MAMEdevs never did Foley stepped up to the plate. People weren't happy with it then and they're not happy with MAMEdevs' enforcement, now, either.
Joseph Elwell.

[Zakk]

Foley had nothing to do with it, from point A to point B.

[M3talhead]

Foley had nothing to do with it, from point A to point B.  I think it's been established that he tried (unsuccessfully) to profit from the term MAME(tm).  Asking for royalties to 'allow' people to continue using the mame name? pffft. Please.  He didn't step up to any plate, he snuck up and tried to steal it.  Don't make him sound like a noble figurehead, since there's a very good chance he's a weasel.

I'm by no means calling him the good guy in the fight. He's a snake. Plain and simple. Profiting from someone else's hard work and true love is really a sh!tty thing, but in the eyes of the law, he would have come out the victor, and in so we must understand a few things:

1. Obtaining arcade (or any other) roms without paying for them is illegal (we all know that).

2. Foley is a shady guy and will always look to what's "profitable" for him.

3.By Kevin reviewing this product, we may better understand what this hobby is up against in the future.

Lets not look at Foley as a person who we should follow as an example. Rather, lets see what kind of people are ready to wreck this already fading industry. As for Kev, everyone needs to understand that he is an arcade enthusiast like us all, and he happens to run a (rather successful) arcade review site. By him analyzing Ultracraps product, we can better understand the direction this hobby will take us all.

Please keep in mind people, although we all hate Foley, Kev's decision to review "the enemy's" product may have a positive outcome in the end.









*Note: I hate David Foley

[sirwoogie]

As Kevin is a regular visitor to these forums, I'm sure he'll be responding to this particular thread and answer everybody's concern.

Kev is a good, stand-up kind of guy. He's contributed plenty to the MAME, arcade, and pinball communities with his reviews and commentaries. Dismissing him as a "sell-out" is not warrented.

Let's hear his point of view before going off the deep end with innuendo and speculation.

[Zakk]

I'm by no means calling him the good guy in the fight. He's a snake. Plain and simple. Profiting from someone else's hard work and true love is really a sh!tty thing, but in the eyes of the law, he would have come out the victor, and in so we must understand a few things:

1. Obtaining arcade (or any other) roms without paying for them is illegal (we all know that).

2. Foley is a shady guy and will always look to what's "profitable" for him.

3.By Kevin reviewing this product, we may better understand what this hobby is up against in the future.

Lets not look at Foley as a person who we should follow as an example. Rather, lets see what kind of people are ready to wreck this already fading industry. As for Kev, everyone needs to understand that he is an arcade enthusiast like us all, and he happens to run a (rather successful) arcade review site. By him analyzing Ultracraps product, we can better understand the direction this hobby will take us all.

Please keep in mind people, although we all hate Foley, Kev's decision to review "the enemy's" product may have a positive outcome in the end.









*Note: I hate David Foley

Heh, my comment was directed at jelwel.

SirWoogie: You're probably right, and I agree Kevin will likely calm all our fears, and overwhelmingly it seems like everyone is expressing surprise by 'how it looks', not condemnation.  We like Kevin, but dislike Foley.  Put one with the other, and the cosmos gets all out of whack. 

And who can settle for an out-of-whack cosmos, I ask you?!?!?

[Tommy Boy]

I'm just surprised it took people this long to realize that Foley was generally right. Someone needed to enforce MAME's license (now a trademark as well) and since MAMEdevs never did Foley stepped up to the plate.

I have absolutely no idea what this MEANS.  Look.  This is very simple.  Foley paid the folks that owned the rights to these games a pile of royalties (apparently) for licenses.  But guess what, the people he paid the money to are not enforcing their copyrights.  That makes him feel pretty stupid.  He's essentially paid for nothing, since the licenses aren't worth much if everyone is getting it for free.

So Foley is mad.  But his beef is with the copyright owners and, frankly, they're the only ones who can ultimately make his business model work.  Before he paid that pile of money, he should have put a clause in the contract that either forces the copyright owners to enforce their rights or gives him the authority to do so on their behalf.

Sit down and think about the whole MAME(tm) fiasco that he started.  How was that *ever* going to do him any good?  Does pulling cabinets and marquee auctions off of ebay do anything to make his licenses worth more?  No.  Pirating of the ROMS is the issue.  And taking over the MAME trademark (even if it would have stood up through the USPTO process) was NEVER GOING TO STOP PIRACY OF THE ROMS.  Period.  Pulling auctions is an annoyance to the folks distributing cabs and marquees.  That's it.

Here's the bottom line and what pi$$e$ me off so much with Foley: He's a lousy business man who will never do us a bit of good in this hobby and ultimately will only manage to pi$$ one more business (his third?) down the crapper.  So I disagree with you Kevin.  Someone who knew what they were doing might make legal roms work for the MAME community, but this guy has no clue what he's doing.

Here's one last thought: How is the iRoms idea any better of a money maker for him if he doesn't get the copyrights owners to enforce their rights.  Will the copyrights owners incur the cost of litigation to enforce their rights without a revenue stream from iRoms sufficient to pay the legal bills plus a profit?  I don't know the answer to this last question but I have my own theory...

[Magnet_Eye]

Did you ever consider the possibility that he is reviewing the Ultracrap machines because nobody else has? I commend him for keeping an open mind in reviewing arcade products. Its just as good to know what products are crap and what's worth looking into. In addition, by reviewing Ultracrap units, we can further laugh at the ridiculous amounts of money this guy is charging for his rigs.

My $.02:

The problem is that retroblast should not review this guys product because of the slime he is. The MAME Community has basically boycotted ultracade, as people in our country do when they are upset by a company's business practices. By reviewing ultracade, he is in essence getting in bed the enemy. If Kev really is a part of the MAME community, he would join the boycott against ultracade along with the community and refuse to do anything that may help ultracade succeed.

[darktemp]

My $.02:

The problem is that retroblast should not review this guys product because of the slime he is. The MAME Community has basically boycotted ultracade, as people in our country do when they are upset by a company's business practices. By reviewing ultracade, he is in essence getting in bed the enemy. If Kev really is a part of the MAME community, he would join the boycott against ultracade along with the community and refuse to do anything that may help ultracade succeed.

Bingo

[HoopstarsGarage]

My $.02:

The problem is that retroblast should not review this guys product because of the slime he is. The MAME Community has basically boycotted ultracade, as people in our country do when they are upset by a company's business practices. By reviewing ultracade, he is in essence getting in bed the enemy. If Kev really is a part of the MAME community, he would join the boycott against ultracade along with the community and refuse to do anything that may help ultracade succeed.

Further to which..

If Kevin comes out and backs ANYTHING about the cabinet, you can be assured that Foley will quote the article in his Ebay auctions and on his website and it will be positive for the slim ball..

If Kevin comes out and says UltraCade is a pile of over priced pooh, then it confirms what we already know, but Foley still gets his free plug from what once was a respected website for this hobby (RetroBlast in case you missed it)..

If Kevin DOES decide to chime in here, then I would be very interested to find out exactly what he is getting from Ultracade - money, one of his crappy cabinets or something else (a buy in to the company)..?

Either way, Kevin is supporting him..

There is an old saying: "IF you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem".

[saint]

There's a saying about mountains and molehills as well.  I'm often surprised at some of the reactions and sense of perspective people in this hobby can have . . .  Even if Kevin has made a poor decision (and I'll personally refrain from making a judgement on that one way or the other), to villify someone who has done as much giving to this community as Kevin has is just sad.

--- saint

[HoopstarsGarage]

I'm often surprised at some of the reactions and sense of perspective people in this hobby can have . . .

I guess that highlights the passion and strong sense of "community" that MAME has grown to build since it's inception and the strong feelings of resentment that one man can have on that community..

Truly sad times indeed..

[Shadowgate]

There's a saying about mountains and molehills as well.

[sirwoogie]

I'm thinking this community in the thread is resembling salem, Mass. about 300 years ago. Lets here the other side of the story first.

[Crazy Cooter]

I'm just surprised it took people this long to realize that Foley was generally right. Someone needed to enforce MAME's license (now a trademark as well) and since MAMEdevs never did Foley stepped up to the plate. People weren't happy with it then and they're not happy with MAMEdevs' enforcement, now, either.
Joseph Elwell.

Foley had no intentions of being a "standup guy" and enforce anything.  Foley went on this rage after Namco busted him for illegally selling their ROM's.  Period.  Ask Namco.

[Xiaou2]

 This thread  represents childishness.

  First off, I agree that Foley is a slimy weasel.   But, at least he backed off
mame.  And  now mame may be a bit better for it.

  One thing that I suggested to Foley in a email long ago, was that instead of trying to attack mame'rs, and mame cab builders.. rather offer them parts and electronics that we could all use to build our own.   

  At that time, he said something like 'he wasnt into the parts game'.   Maybe he has realized the possibilities.. and had a change of mind.

  Either way, --I'm attempting to get by the auto-censor and should be beaten after I re-read the rules-- or not... if someone has a piece of hardware that can do what I need and or want it to do... I will buy it.

 It looks like he has very good experience with the electronics side of things.. and has the capital and expertise to pop the stuff out. 

  Id love to get a review on the video converter personally.  Sounds interesting.  Wondering about how good the quality of the conversion is.

 Anyway.. get over it already, and be more grown up than he was and or still is.

 As for attacking Kevin,  well..we all know his reviews are a bit on the shallow and buttkissing side.   You cant expect much more though.. as exposing hurtfull info to a product will not  get more vendors to send him new toys.  Sad but true.   Like it or not, hes better than nothing at all.   Attacking him is as childish as this entire thread and subject.

 
 

   

[Crazy Cooter]

First off, I agree that Foley is a slimy weasel....
It looks like he has very good experience with the electronics side of things.. and has the capital and expertise to pop the stuff out.

[divemaster127]

hey, i really like kevin too, but I think he has made a bad decision to even review foleys products, & kevin should withdraw that decision, I for one will not visit kevins site again until he withdraws supporting foley who will never do anything good for mame all he is concerned about is $$$$
thanks

[Patent Doc]

This whole thread just makes me sad.  I agree with most that Mr. foley is pure evil and will try to milk the retro arcade business dry to line his pockets.  I honestly feel he care nothing for this hobby.  However, why should he.  His target business are those people with a lot of money who want to be able to brag they got the latest toy.  Part of the joy of this hobby is planning the cabinet, building the cabinet, designing artwork, etc...it's not all about the games (admitedly though that's how most of us got into it).  Nevertheless, it is not Kevin that makes me sad.  It's this board.  I would like to tink that if I met Kevin in person, we would be friends.  Speaking for myself, his website really helped me understnad things in this hobby early on.  Kevin is a good guy and as Saint pointed out, we shouldn't villify him just because we disagree with his latest choice of items to review.  Having spoken to Kevin several times about legal/illegal roms/Foley, I know Kevin doesn't like what Foley has done to this hobby.  However, Kevin is right, the legality of roms looms over this hobby like a huge dark cloud and like it or not, Foley is providing legal roms with his games.  Sure Foley should be going after MAME for the roms, but he hasn't yet.  On the other hand, I can uderstand him wanting to get rid of competition that doesn't have to jump through the same whoops he does (unfair competition, etc).  Do I like Foley, no.  Do I wish there was a definitely legal source of roms to use with mame...yes.  Should we be trashing Kevin...absolutely NOT.

Patent Doc

[divemaster127]

I was not trashing kevin, I like kevin as i stated before, its just in my opinion, he has made a poor decision supporting anything from foley, who if we remember started this whole mess, i just will not visit or support kevins site while he supports foley products, i would leave the hobby before i purchase anything from ultracade

[divemaster127]

Something else i would like to point out, companies like stikstik etc, pay to advertise on kevins site, if i owned one of these companies I might have a problem with kevin supporting foleys products, considering foley is trying to run these very companies out of business

[dema]

"Right now, it seems that the best hope of additional legal ROMs is UltraCade

[darktemp]

This whole thread just makes me sad.
Patent Doc

Uhm..  This thread makes you sad?  Honestly I didn't think anything in this discussion was that "heavy" but... whatever I guess.  As to everyone waiting for a response from Kevin, check the front page of Retroblast.  It contains a rather long winded article on this very topic.

Also, I don't think anyone is trying to take away any of Kevin's contributions, we are discussing this one particular issue of reviewing this jerks stuff.  Maybe this topic will have some bearing on the decision to review said junk.

[NinjaEpisode]

There's a saying about mountains and molehills as well.

[saint]

Hopefully just this thread and not the whole board?

Nevertheless, it is not Kevin that makes me sad.  It's this board. 

[Ghoward]

I think you guys are being a bit hard on Kevin. Let

[Patent Doc]

Hopefully just this thread and not the whole board?

Correct, it is this thread and not the board...I misspoke...sorry.  I just hate seeing us attack one of our own.  Kevin's a good guy...I may not agree with the ultracade review, or giving Foley any extra attention, but I still like Kevin and his sight.

Patent Doc