the story, of the worst time in my life

[Sephroth57]

Well, i dont know why im posting this here really. I guess its because im sitting here at work thinking about it, and all my RL friends on my AIM list have all heard it and well i dunno... basicly, the last 3 weeks of my life have been the longest, and most unpleasant days of my exsistance on the earth. Where to start, maybe some backstory, well im 20, 21 in july.. and ive been going out with the same girl, Kristen, for about 3.5 years. we started going out junior year, we broke up in the summer that year after about 5 months. At first i was like whatever just another HS girlfriend. and then after not having her for a while i realized i really missed her, she was dating some loser guy, he was totaly rebound food and she even admitted it to me, so anyway basicly broke them up and she ended up going back out with me in december.

 we were now seniors. it was good times, we graduated high school together. she went to college about 40 min from where we lived and she stayed in the dorms there, all girls school. and i tried doing the college thing at a county college cause i was never into school really, I ended up ditching college after a few months, i kept skippin classes not doing homework, i wasnt into it. so anyway, no big deal. I got a job working for my moms, friends, husband who ran a buisness out of his house, hes contracted by Honeywell and we do all their project management for the products side, which is where i still work now.

Soo fast forward, we just had our 3rd christmas with each other and we never broke up at all during this time, wed have fights now and then over stupid crap but who doesnt. Lately i did notice she was very moody and easy to get mad, i figured probably cause school is stressin her out, shes working at the same time, its tough for her. Well 3 weeks ago, were hanging out and this is the last day of her school break, we had been hanging out all week together. she says she thinks we need a "break" just some time apart so she can think cause shes been unhappy lately. so im pretty upset with this but im like ok whatever, i wasnt thinking this was a huge deal. so we never really set terms i just brought her home i said i would call her at school the next day, i figured we prolly just wouldnt hang out for a week or 2, keep talking on the phone to a minimum.

its kind of all a blur to me right now, but sometime during the week maybe tuesday, were talkin on the phone and shes like i dont think we should go out. im like why wtf, and at this point im not even sure on the whole point of this we were still kind of barely talkin cause shes been busy at school. so im like whoa this is getting way out of hand i need to figure out wtf is goin on. so i go up there that night to talk to her in person cause im like freakin out now. so i went up there and she basicly explained shes been unhappy for a while, and shes been trying to just deal with it and see if maybe it went away but apparently it didnt.

so basicly, shes just been bothered by things i was doing/not doing. over like the past6 months, maybe more. and she just decided not to tell me. like we would have stupid fights over little things like she got out of work early during the week and i could come drive up and see her for like 4 hours but i didnt feel like goin up there just for a little bit when i was gonna see her on saturday all day. just dumb stuff like that i could easily change, and really its not like shes asking me to change all these things its like things normal people do anyway, im just generally a very pessimistic, not really mean but like uncaring person, she was really the only person i truely cared about. i barely talk to anyone in my family.

so she explains all this and im like look just give me a chance i will do whatever you want this is mostly my fault for not doing this stuff in the first place. and shes all confused, what if i change but then it wears off and we go back to the same stuff in 2 months, or what if i change and shes still unhappy or something. and im like i know i can make you happy you just need to give me a chance, but shes really afraid to just give in, shes not sure what she wants shes 21, shes just come to the realization that for the past 3 years all shes known is me, she doesnt know how to take care of herself, etc. she wants to make sure she can be independant first. and all this BS, so theres really nothing i can say to change her mind so im like all ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- up i feel like im going to vomit. she said she still wants to talk to me on the phone everday and still hang out on the weekend she still needs me in her life. she just doesnt want the "title" , she has so much stress and worrying about me is just another thing. and she said shes sorry that sounds really selfish, but shes devoted herself to me for so long she thinks she owes it to herself.

I truely understand the phrase, hindsight is always 20/20. cause i look back at how i was always happy pretty much, and i just thought hey i got a happy life i never really have any problems. and i realize she was doing so many things for me all the time i was so used to it, i didnt even realise a lot of it was because of her. and really there were lots of times i was not as understanding or caring as i should have been, and its like i didnt notice, but she didnt tell me. maybe she shouldnt have to tell me, but im not a normal person and she knows that. i think its really mutual fault here and she agrees, her not telling me was terrible and mainly the cause of this all happening, and me not knowing in the first place and being how i was was also the cause.

so here i am, 3 weeks ago yesterday was the sunday she said we should have a "break", which turned into breakup. everyday all i can do is think about her, i usually have like mon-thursday to myself, i go to work, go home and then hang out with friends, do whatever. and then friday she comes home and im with her usually all the way until she goes back up to school on sunday. so now theres half of my usual week, gone. we still hang out but she tries not to devote as much time to me, shes been picking up more hours at work so shes more busy and doesnt have to think about this so much and since shes busy theres no way we could hang out so she doesnt have to turn me down if i ask.

but weve been hanging out 2 days a week, sometimes 3. the past 2 weeks ive been showing her how i can change and ive been doing all these sweet things for her, and i know shes not going to respond like OMG youre so great, but she smiles and i know she likes it in a way. but last night we hung out and she said she really doesnt want me to keep doing things like that for her cause it makes her feel bad. and how is she going to miss me if i dont give her a chance, i guess maybe i was coming on too strong. but im used to this girl being my best friend there was no taboo between us we told each other everything and nothing was out of bounds. we still are best friends, i feel like she is my best friend in the world, she knows more about me than anyone, even my closest guy friend ive had since 7th grade. but she wants us to still hang out, but just friends. when we hung out the past couple times we get kind of cuddly like if were watching a movie or something and sometimes we hold hands just out of habit. but she tries not to do that cause she doesnt want to like lead me on. Right now, she doesnt want to go back out, she says she really just needs time. and i understand that. i told her one of my biggest fears and one of the reasons ive been maybe coming on too strong is because im scared shes gonna go meet some other guy or something. and she said its nothing liek that, as cliche as it sounds its not you , its me. she knows i can change for her, and she appreciates that i love her that much to do that. but she needs to like find herself. she doesnt want a relationship, she is still sorting out ours. and she assured me i dont have to worry..  so that made me feel a little bit better. she said if i want i can hang out with other girls do whatever, she wouldnt be offended. she really said she would prefer if i did she wants to see if she would get jealous or not. and at first i was like well are u just saying this so u can do the same, and she said no absolutely not. and i belive her i know her more than anyway, so dont get the wrong idea on that. and shes not a typical girl shes not "testing" me. but really im not into that idea im so in love with her i dont see other women as even the slightest bit appealing.

her plan is we should just keep talking, keep hanging out, she knows that she needs me in her life. and if something happens, it will happen, and we can try starting over. but she just doesnt want to like lead me on or get my hopes up by saying ya know just give me time and i will try again. shes just really confused right now.

so basicly, right now all i can think about is her. i cant even play videogames. i brought my Xbox to a LAN party like 3 weeks ago right before this happened, its still sitting in the bag cause i havent even felt like playing. things that normally occupy me dont do it for me anymore, im so restless and bored all the time, cause all i can think about is her. i wait until the times i can call her i know she gets out of class and she tells me to call when she gets back to the room. during the week shes so busy with school/work we rarely talk for more then 5-10 min but just hearing her voice is worth it. and this week she had to pick up hours cause they fired 2 people so shes working almost all weekend, cept saturday. and shes working monday (vday) but still wants to see me that night after she gets off, she worked on purpose cause she didnt want me to take her out.


i dunon what the point of this is, i prolly left out lots of details and parts may be incoherent but... yeah. if you actually read all this youre either really bored or, i dunno a really nice person or something. im sure you will give me some kind of advice, people like chad tower will be like "dude just go bang some other girl" , im really trying to avoid those comments right now cause im really emotionally unstable so please keep that in mind. and try to remember, you cant explain why when youre in love you do things, or explain why youre even in love with someone else sometimes, its jsut a special feeling. its very illogical really when i sat and thought about it the other day...

[SirPeale]

I was a jerk to most of my girlfriends growing up, all the way up until I was about 23.  I really just didn't care.

Then I met this one girl, and she was the whole world.  But she ended up treating me like I was treating other women.

I thought it was the end of the world.  But it showed me that I should be more considerate of woman's feelings.

After than I met my wife.  We've been together nine years now.

[Sephroth57]

see like, ive had a revelation. im armed with all this knowledge. i see myself now, i see so many things. its like i have all this new stuff i know and i want to use it, to make her happy. i dont want this to turn into, well it made me learn all this stuff, so the next chick i met i ended up marrying. i want her, i love her...

[Apollo]

Dude I feel for you but you can't "make" anyone love you. It's like a chemical thing almost. I had a friend like yours and I ended up marrying her but only because I left her for 8 years and went to university and the travelled the world for four years. When I got back she had been seeing this guy for nearly 10 years. She dumped his sorry ass I moved in with her we got married 6 months later and our 10 year anniversary is in a couple of months. I'm not saying that this is what you should do but there is a lot of truth in the hackneyed old saying "if you love something let it go......". People want what they think thay can't have. If she thinks she can't have you maybe she will decide she wats you. Best thing you can do is see her less and get a girlfriend. Stop doing all these things for her and just be buds. Believe me it's your best and probably only option.

[shmokes]

Yeah...I come across probably as a bit of a knowitall, but I have some idea of how you feel.  I've been on both ends of similar situations. 

I think that most people do a great deal of changing from teens to twenties.  She is at college and, frankly, one of the best things about college is the opposite sex.  I wouldn't be surprised if she is looking around and saying to herself, "How do I really know if this is the guy I want to be with for the rest of my life when I've never been with anybody else since I was a kid."  This is especially likely, I think, if she has been unhappy lately, as you said.

But, looking at it from the outside, without the emotion that you are surely feeling, it appears that she is definitely trying to break up with you for real and not just "take a break".  When she says, "It's nothing like that," about wanting to date other guys she is saying it because she cares a great deal for you and it's difficult for her to cause you pain.  But she is trying to give herself an out, hoping that you will act on her permission to date other girls, thereby giving her implicit permission to start dating other guys.  She's also likely hoping that you will meet another girl you really like and won't care so much about losing her.

I'm really sorry for you, and expect that you have a great big empty spot inside that she used to fill.  That's how it was with me even when I was trying to get out of a bad, destructive long-term relationship.  I had been with this girl for two years, the first of which was fantastic.  Then she went kind of crazy and all these nutty insecurities came to the surface and our relationship became very unhappy due to jealousies and her being really unstable.  I broke up with her three different times and even though I wasn't happy with her, she had still become my whole life.  Time that used to be devoted to her now was idle.  Whenever I had interesting things on my mind that I would previously have told her, I didn't have anything to tell her.  I had drifted apart from many of my friends due to spending so much time with her (and I didn't have ANY female friends due to her being crazy insecure).  I felt really lonely and empty.  In fact emptiness is probably the best word I can think of to describe how I felt and how I suspect you feel. 

The best advice I can offer is to assume that this is permanent.  Try to feel your days up with activities to keep your mind off it, even if they feel hollow and cheap.  As you start to feel up the gaping whole she's left in the part of your heart that she has occupied for the last few years they will become less and less cheap and at one point you'll meet someone new, albeit with scar tissue that makes the heart permanently a little harder.  I'd suggest trying your hardest not to let the scarring cause you to keep your guard up too much to let someone get that close again.

As they say, better to have loved and lost....etc.

I may be wrong, but from an objective position of not knowing either of you and reading your story (even coming from the vantage point of someone who obviously wants to believe that it's not over), I'd say it's over.

I'm really sorry, and I'm sorry that surely doesn't make you feel one damn bit better.

[Shape D.]

dude your 20, way to young for a serious relationship.
I'd give you more advice but you stated you don't want it in your original post.





P.S. time may not heal all wounds, but the scars are at least harder to see.

[Grasshopper]

This is possibly the saddest post I've read on the BYOAC board. It struck a chord with me because I've been in a slightly similar situation before so I think I know a little about what you're going through. But of course it's different for everyone.

I think the others are right. It sounds like she is trying to break up with you without upsetting you. If you try to get too heavy with her at this point you risk losing her friendship. At least if you remain friends there is a chance that the flame may be rekindled at some point in the future. Maybe this is false hope, but I can't think of a better option.

Hope it works out in the end.

[Sephroth57]

i guess my post was a bit misleading, at first she said a "break". but then when i went up to talk to her she said we should "break up".  so were officially not going out, but were still very close friends. she said she needs time to calm down, and possibly she can trust me and try again but shes not saying i should wait for her. she just knows that im that stubborn and i will wait, so shes not trying ot get my hopes up or lead me on but she said if we stay friends for a little bit and i let her sort things out we might be able to start over again.

one of the reasons she didnt tell me, cause we would have dumb fights about like a specific incident or something and as a guy i argue my point and im like well thats why that happened blah blah, and try to make it like im right and youre upset over nothing. so she figured i would just blow it off like that, and i see her point i did do that too much..

maybe it seems desparate, or hopeless to some people. but unless youve been there you dont understand. im not trying to get over her yet, cause to me this whole thing isnt over. 3.5 years of time cant just end like that. i feel like this isnt how its supposed to go down,and maybe im just hanging on to a thread of hope but thats all i have right now. and i refuse to believe anything else right now

[Shape D.]

Ok heres the way women work. (I am generalizing I understand not all women are like this but most I have delt with are?

1) the more you want to spend time with them the less they care, stop haning out with her and don't answer her phone calls for a week. I bet she'll act differently.

2) women want something they cant have. become unavailable to her much like number 1.

3) never give in, its a sign of weakness. and they'll remember it forever.

4) dont be rude about avoiding her, If she somehow gets ahold of you just tell her youv'e been busy. (and dont elaborate on that)


I know some people will tell me this is full of crap, but don't knock it till you try it.

P.S.   chicks dig skulls

[Sephroth57]

i was thinking about that strategy... but its very risky =\

[shmokes]

There's a lot of truth to that stuff, I think.  Becoming unavailable is probably both your both the best way of getting her back (if that's possible) AND probably the best way of getting over her if ya'll just aren't meant to be.  I think you should take his advice.

edit:  except the part about the skulls.  chicks don't dig them, and in fact wonder why in hell guys dig them so much.   

[GGKoul]

Hey,

[Sephroth57]

yeah sitting around all day is really killing me it just gives me more time to mill over everything and feel like crap. tomorrow me and my friend are getting a gym membership im gonna start working out.. and i think im goign to start playing piano soon and take lessons..

[Apollo]

Chicks dig scars not skulls.

Don't call her.
 
When she calls you and wants to do something, at least once a week tell you're busy ( make up something that you have to do instead of seeing her ).

Don't do so much for her

Start a rumour that you are seeing someone really hot from the next town over from yours ( you met via email but have met in person and had great sex ).

Start a rumour that anyone she dates has a sexual disease or used to be a woman or listens to Ashley Spears ( anything will do )

Make sure she never finds out any of this stuff and if by some miracle you end up with her don't think sharing this stuff will bring you closer. She's more likely to dump your conniving game playing ass.
Basically if you carry on the way you are she is history dude, seriously. You have to have a major change in tactics.

[DrewKaree]

I've heard you speak about this before.

Ask anyone who's been married for a while - you each make sacrifices if you're going to be married for a while. 

The difference between that, and what you're speaking of is this (and again, ask...you'll see I'm right):  You're TRYING to change things and DO something to endear her to you.  If you guys are compatible, you don't have to TRY changing for that person, it happens unconsciously, and isn't something you have to DO, it's something that BECOMES part of you.

Making a conscious effort to change yourself to suit someone else's idea of what they want in a significant other is only a guarantee that one of you will become unhappy, either that you resent the changes forced upon you eventually, or that the other person finds other things you need to change in order for them to be happy, or else you do some of the things that they dislike (NO MATTER HOW SLIGHT THEY SEEM TO BE, OR IF YOU DON'T NOTICE/REALIZE IT), and they hold it against you.

Her wishing to "hang out, be friends, whatever" is simply trying to let you down easy, because she wants to alleviate the guilt of breaking up with you by offering you mythical things that will slowly subside over time.

For some reason, you're willing to do things and accept things that she does in an effort to obtain from her feelings she simply doesn't share or wish to reciprocate.

The harsh reality is - you've been dumped.

The harsher reality is - you are only serving to drive her further away, respect you less, and solidify her belief that breaking up with you is the right thing to do by continuing to hold out hope that you two will be able to work it out and get back together.

Continuing to fester on this is a recipe for disaster.  You've GOT to get out and DO something, make your life busy like she's trying to do.  In time, you'll look back and realize you've gotten over her.  You're the only person who can make yourself get up off the couch, though.

Buck up little camper 

[danny_galaga]

cheer up. i didnt even HAVE a girlfriend until i was 23! never even been kissed let alone f****d until then!! been making up for lost time since  and while you would get sick of hearing it, there are plenty more fish in the sea. as the led zeppelin song goes-

 'livin, lovin, she's just a woman...'

[APFelon]

No offense, but some of this advice is pretty lousy. Whether any of these "magic tricks" works all depends on the girl. I have had most of these tactics backfire on me and I was back in the hunt for a new girl soon afterwards.

There is no magic bullet aside from finding a way to comfort yourself and make this as least a painful process as possible.  Just remember that 50% of what happens to you is in your head, and when you are under emotional stress (like now) it is even more.

If I were in your position (and I am glad I am not; I got REAAAAALY sick of dating in my early 20s) I would just let her know that I'd be there for her and if I had a new girl when she is "ready" for me again, I'd be there for her as a friend. In the meanwhile, I'd get stinky drunk every night... wait, no. Just kidding.

Seriously, in the meanwhile use the time that you'd otherwise be spending with her to do some social stuff you otherwise would have put off. Call an old friend, get the buddies together for a poker night or just find something to do by yourself to get your mind off of it for a while. Go bowling or something by yourself and simply enjoy what you are doing.

From my experience, I'd say that it is almost impossible to manually heal a relationship by nagging, manipulating and whatnot. Let the familiar places, previous gifts and familiar songs do the work for you and hope for the best. If it doesn't work out, be prepared for that, too.

Good luck. I wouldn't take 100,000 dollars to be in your position again.

APf

[Bones]

Sh*t happens.

You now have two choices.

1) Learn from it, get over it, and don't make the same mistake again.
2) Dwell on it, let it consume you, become more depressed, let the situation beat you.

Ultimately the choice is yours. Both involve pain. This may sounds harsh but it is the cold truth. Stay away from the booze and green for a couple of weeks to clear your head. Alcohol is your enemy when you are not thinking straight and will most likely make the situation worse.

Suck it in dude. If it was meant to be it would have happened by now. Time to move on.

[danny_galaga]

No offense, but some of this advice is pretty lousy. Whether any of these "magic tricks" works all depends on the girl. I have had most of these tactics backfire on me and I was back in the hunt for a new girl soon afterwards.

There is no magic bullet aside from finding a way to comfort yourself and make this as least a painful process as possible.

[maraxle]

I've been in a situation like that before.  I was the same age, same amount of time with the girl.  I know how much it sucks. 

The best advice I can give you is this - stop torturing yourself.  Seriously.  Stop hanging out with her.  Stop trying to win her back.  Stop calling her.  Pack up all the pictures and love notes and whatnot in a box and stick them in the back of the closet.  You are just torturning yourself by being around her so much.  It's so not worth it. 

Go hang out with your real friends.  Go meet some new people.  Drink some beer with the boys.  Say "hi" to that pretty girl you've been passing at the grocery store.  Look into that college you were considering, but didn't go to because it was too far away from the girlfriend.  There's so much out there, and you've just been given your freedom to go explore it all.

[APFelon]

and what you've just said ISN'T some sort of magic bullet?

Did you trouble yourself to read what I wrote? I basically told him to comfort himself somehow while all of the stuff goes down. Is that a magic bullet like "play hard to get" or "treat her bad so she wants you back?"

Yeesh.

APf

[ChadTower]

Nyeh, I know Seph some, and there's some backstory to this.  He's a friend, but I'll be honest here.  She's in that point in her life where she's getting out of school soon, moving on with life for the career, etc.  Seph has shown no interest in getting an education, a career... he's not going anywhere.  Chicks don't want that guy who is too lazy to even go to community college because that guy's never going to progress any further.

It's lame sometimes, but that's just how it is.  I wouldn't want a chick who never developed some type of career or true independence after high school.  The way she sees it, Seph is one layoff away from being a Walmart employee and is doing nothing to change that.  I'm not saying he should go to MIT and study Astrophysics, but showing some type of ambition in life would have helped his case with her.

Refusing to drive 40 minutes to see her is a pretty serious message about how important she is to him and how lazy he can be.  40 minutes is nothing, some people spend that much time on the toilet.

Worst of all, now that she's trying to 'find herself' or whatever she calls it, she's using him.  She doesn't want him but won't break clean so he can do what's best for him.  He has the worst of it all, no commitment, no relationship, and yet she wants to have him around all the time to make her feel secure.  F%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%CK THAT.

This is the kick in the ass Seph needs anyway.  Dude needs to get off his ass and go to school, or learn a real trade, or something that isn't one specific decent job with no hope of advancement/income improvement.  If he does those things, he will really help himself, and if she loves him she'll come back.  If he does those things, and she doesn't come back, she should be gone anyway.  Either way, he should do them because the distance between 20 years old and 30 is about 15 minutes long compared to 10 and 20.

Oh, and Seph, consider this.  If this is the worst thing that has ever happened to you, the worst time of your life, you've had a pretty charmed life to this point.

[ChadTower]

I was a jerk to most of my girlfriends growing up, all the way up until I was about 23.  I really just didn't care.

I hate that, specifically this whole concept.  I was the NICEST guy in high school.  I mean, I went out of my way to help people when it wasn't necessary.  When dating, I treated my dates like queens.  I was a total gentleman, raised by folks of the WWII generation and had manners noone in my age group had.

People constantly took advantage of me and screwed me over.  Girls especially, I would go out with a girl and treat her royally and it was always just a matter of time before they cheated on me with the A-hole.  Any a-hole.  They would then leave me for said A-hole, who would cheat on them, beat them, treat them like subhumans.  And this happened EVERY TIME.  I can't tell you how many times I heard you're hot but you're such a nice guy you're more valuable as a friend right before a girl would leave for a date with a guy who treated them like garbage.

So, to sum it up, by being an A-hole, you got all the girls I couldn't have by being an attractive, friendly, respectful gentleman.  You tell me who won.

[danny_galaga]

and what you've just said ISN'T some sort of magic bullet?

Did you trouble yourself to read what I wrote? I basically told him to comfort himself somehow while all of the stuff goes down. Is that a magic bullet like "play hard to get" or "treat her bad so she wants you back?"

Yeesh.

APf

yep. all of it cliches. yours, theirs, mine. although i must admit the worst cliche is the 'play hard to get' type. not something i would suggest either

[CCM]

Well,  I don't know Seph at all, but I have to lean towards ChadTower's assessment.  I don't think I would have put it so bluntly, but the basic idea is there.  She is away at school experiencing things that Seph has no idea about or that Seph doesn't fit into.  Seph seems to be in the same place he was when they met all those years ago.  She is moving on with school, and eventually a career of some sort.   

A lot of times in this situation, the two people just grow apart, or one of them grows, and the other doesn't.  It's a bad situation, and I feel bad for you Seph, but it seems like she wants to move on to something else.  I think the best thing would be to end it all together.  Stop calling each other, stop seeing each other, and see what happens.  You never know, you may end up back together, or you may never speak to each other again.  Ultimately, you're both young and will get over this.  You're only 20!  I didn't have a serious relationship until I met my wife when I was 27, and I didn't get married until I was 31.

[SirPeale]

Okay, I worded that badly.  It was just supposed to be a quick-quick response.

Like you, any girl that I treated well ended up treating me like crap.  And almost any girl that actually showed interest in me, I almost always wasn't interested in, and would end up treating HER like crap.

Case in point: there was this girl, Ann White, in my chemistry class.  One day I was kidding around, and I asked her out.  To my suprise, she said yes.

She was actually very nice, kind of cute, but I'd never even thought of her in those terms.  So what did little old mature me do?  Completely ignore her.  I'd see her coming, I'd go the other way.  I was a real dick.  She moved away later in high school, and I have no idea where she want.  If I saw her again, I'd apologize.

Then there's every other woman *I've* been interested in.  99.9% of them treated *me* like crap.

I guess you really have to be interested in someone, and have that person actually interested in you, for this to work.

[GGKoul]

Then there's every other woman *I've* been interested in.

[ChadTower]

What comes around goes around...

If that explained it, I'd have never been cheated on, lied to, or treated like I was disposable until after high school.

What it comes down to, I think, is that women want to be wanted more than they want to be had.  Men too, for the most part, but it's less emotional for them and more physical.

[Shape D.]

What it comes down to, I think, is that women want to be wanted more than they want to be had.

Women want what they cant have, you were there when they needed "someone to talk to".  Part of the problem is when a girl starts thinking of you as a friend, when that heppens you have no chance. If a girl says "I just want to be friends" its over. game over man.

[GGKoul]

What comes around goes around...

If that explained it, I'd have never been cheated on, lied to, or treated like I was disposable until after high school.

The people who did this to you will get there's hundred times more.

[ChadTower]

The people who did this to you will get there's hundred times more.

Oh, they did, and they did it to themselves by dumping me for the A-hole.  But the fact remains that the only way to get the girl was to be the A-hole, and that's not who I wanted to be.

[GGKoul]

What it comes down to, I think, is that women want to be wanted more than they want to be had.

Women want what they cant have, you were there when they needed "someone to talk to".

[Shape D.]

There's ways to move a relationship from "friend-mood" to the next step.

yeah, start being a jerk.

[GGKoul]

There's ways to move a relationship from "friend-mood" to the next step.

yeah, start being a jerk.

No. 

[ChadTower]

No. 

He's right.  If you're not REALLY a jerk, you can't fake it well enough to convince them.

[GGKoul]

No.

[Shape D.]

Found this on:
http://www.seductioninsider.com/articles/want_to_bang_your_female_friends.html

or to paraphrase,   Start being a jerk.

[ChadTower]

Or, buy a BMW.  Works every time.

Or, let it slip that you live down the street from Tedy Bruschi and that Tom Brady is often seen around where you live.  That makes the women ALL want to come over, regardless of age/marital status.

Sucks for Seph.  He's the emergency dick, the dick in a glass case you only break in case of fire.  He needs to get back to being the top priority dick.

[GGKoul]

Found this on:
http://www.seductioninsider.com/articles/want_to_bang_your_female_friends.html

or to paraphrase,

[zaphod]

As I read down through this thread, even before I hit Chad's reply, the main thought was "College".  College is likely 90% of the 'problem'.  People change when they go off to school, horizons are broadened, their peer groups change.  You are an outsider to that now.  Of the great many married couples I know, 'generally' either both have attended college (attended, not necessarily graduated) or both have not.

I feel for you.  Been there a few times in my life.  Start finding plenty of activities to keep you busy.  Hang out with friends.  Your worst enemy right now is you and too much time to think.  Build a (or another) cabinet.

[Shape D.]

If you read the article, it doesn't state that.  It mainly saids stop doing "friends" things with her and do more exciting things together.

what I read was basically: ignore her, have fun with other girls (or at least make it seem like youre having fun with other girls), and that if shes done with seing you to tell her to f off.

AKA start being a jerk

[GGKoul]

AKA start being a jerk

Whatever works for you.  But I met the women I met over the years because I was a nice guy and I was not-a-jerk.

[DaveMMR]

Nyeh, I know Seph some, and there's some backstory to this.  He's a friend, but I'll be honest here.  She's in that point in her life where she's getting out of school soon, moving on with life for the career, etc.  Seph has shown no interest in getting an education, a career... he's not going anywhere.  Chicks don't want that guy who is too lazy to even go to community college because that guy's never going to progress any further.

It's lame sometimes, but that's just how it is.  I wouldn't want a chick who never developed some type of career or true independence after high school.  The way she sees it, Seph is one layoff away from being a Walmart employee and is doing nothing to change that.  I'm not saying he should go to MIT and study Astrophysics, but showing some type of ambition in life would have helped his case with her.

I was in the same boat as Seph. I had a gf when I was 21.  I had taken a break from college at the time (because, let's be honest here, I had no idea what I wanted to do and I didn't feel like shelling out the cash for uncertainty).  I wasn't lazy or a bum.  I worked a full time job at an insurance office and while I wasn't rich, I wasn't sponging off anyone.  But she broke up with me after a year because the lack of a degree didn't sit right with her.  Meanwhile, she's changed majors fifteen times now and is spending all of her daddies money trying to figure out a job that won't have her breaking into tears over the stress.

Honestly - good riddance to my ex.  College is important and nice and all but if a girl is judging a man based on his earning potential (and I'm not referring to your ex Seph - just all women in general) then she just openly admitted she's a gold digger.  Why?  Women have the almost same opprutunities as men.  If she wants that nice house and that expensive car then she can go out and get it herself!  I'm not saying women should date bums, but uneducated does not mean stupid nor does it mean unemployable (Bill Gates was a college drop-out).  And contrary to what the universities say, education is free.  It's the degree that costs money. 

You know what though?  Men don't have the same hang-ups as women.  Men wouldn't dump a perfect woman who just happens to not have a degree.  As long as she's got a job, is responsible for her own actions, and doesn't leech off of her man then college education is hardly an issue.  And if you are judging women by that, your priorities in life are severely out of whack.

Additionally, not going to 'even a Community College' doesn't mean lazy.  Education, even in a community college, costs some serious dough.  And don't tell me "financial aid" or "student loans" will help.   Did you know that when I applied for my computer school they told me I make too much money for financial aid?  I wish I was making "too much money" but they seem to have forgotten lliving expenses.  I did get a loan but only for half.  That was $5000 out of pocket I had to pay.

Ambition is important - but he's only in his early 20s.  I didn't figure out anything until I was in my mid-20s.  Take your time Seph.   

Anyway, my current girlfriend knows about my decisions in life and what I do for a living and where I intend to take what I've learned.  She doesn't judge me on anything and she's great that way.  That's the type of girl you should strive for, because you don't want someone who'll leave you if times get rough and belts need to be tightened.

[Sephroth57]

i dont really have time to sit here and make a long reply. but ive been trying to absorb all the totally different views a lot of you have and sorting out what i think is right... some decent advice here i would say if u wade through the crap..

this board is more mature then most i go to so i figured here would be the best place for actual conversation

[ChadTower]

Additionally, not going to 'even a Community College' doesn't mean lazy. 

It is for the reasons Seph has given.  He doesn't want to write essays that don't interest him. 

[GGKoul]

i dont really have time to sit here and make a long reply. but ive been trying to absorb all the totally different views a lot of you have and sorting out what i think is right... some decent advice here i would say if u wade through the crap..

this board is more mature then most i go to so i figured here would be the best place for actual conversation

We are only trying to help.

[Sephroth57]

yeah im not saying its a bad thing, reading all the replies is giving me some views i wouldnt have thought of on my own. keep discussing =)

[Shape D.]

Bottom line though youre 20.
If she doesn't want to be with you or even if shes not sure don't waste your time making her happy. make yourself happy and find someone who wont string you along making you feel like crap.

[RayB]

Cut her loose. Shut off all contact.
The second you have to start "strategizing" is when you know it's all over.

As for the "acting like a jerk" discussion. It's not the bring a jerk women find attractive, it's the confidence that usually goes along with it.

[DrewKaree]

and what you've just said ISN'T some sort of magic bullet?

No, it's silver, like the Loan Arranger's

She might even accidentally ask you for a tampon sometime soon.

You'd have less chance of getting her as there is the chance of finding a full set of teeth on the Denny's night shift.)

BEST two lines I've heard this year!  THAT is some funny shite!

[GGKoul]

She might even accidentally ask you for a tampon sometime soon.

You'd have less chance of getting her as there is the chance of finding a full set of teeth on the Denny's night shift.)

BEST two lines I've heard this year!

[shmokes]

Continuing to fester on this is a recipe for disaster.

Drew....once again you completely baffle me.  I thought you and Fredster were on the same team.  Now you've turned his name into a pejorative verb, saying, "Continuing to fredster on this is a recipe for disaster."

WTF???  Give the guy a break.

[Sephroth57]

just an update... im trying to be more umm less needy seeming. i have been calling her pretty much whenever she tells me that shell be in her room. well last night she said shed be in her room after 11am, and then she works at 3. so i called this morning at 11 and she was on the phone, the thing that annoys me is she has call waiting, and it tells you whos calling on the other line so she saw i was calling and decided not to switch over. so that kind of pissed me off, so im not calling today unless she calls me

[Shape D.]

just an update... im trying to be more umm less needy seeming. i have been calling her pretty much whenever she tells me that shell be in her room. well last night she said shed be in her room after 11am, and then she works at 3. so i called this morning at 11 and she was on the phone, the thing that annoys me is she has call waiting, and it tells you whos calling on the other line so she saw i was calling and decided not to switch over. so that kind of pissed me off, so im not calling today unless she calls me

dude if she tells you she'll be there from 11 - 3, at least save yourself some dignity. If youre going to call her, call her at 12:30 or 1:00

[ChadTower]

No crap, calling dead at 11 is the worst thing to do.

[Sephroth57]

also now that i think about it, i think it might have something to do with last night. when i was talkin to her before bed, her cousin was beepin on the other line so im like ok im goign to sleep anyway go switch over, so we hung up and they talked. shes really close with her cousin usually, they always tell each other everything. well i was talkin to her cousin about all this crap the other day, and shes like yeah kristen hasnt even called me for 2 weeks im kinda pissed she hasnt called to talk to me. and that seemed really weird to me. amanda (her cousin) said she really doesnt know what her deal is, and she really wants to find out cause this isnt like kristen at all. she was pretty much on my side and said she would talk to kristen and see what this whole deal is, cause its not like her to not tell amanda anything

and yeah i know youre gonna say well theyre girls amanda isnt gonna tell me everything kristen said cause theyre like that. and im aware of that, but amanda was seriously bothered that kristen hasnt talked to her lately and really was on my side in this whole thing. so.. im gonna talk to amanda soon and see what happened. maybe thats part of the reason she didnt want to talk to me this morning

[Sephroth57]

No crap, calling dead at 11 is the worst thing to do.

see thats one of the many things that was bothering her when we were going out. she has limited time between classes and stuff so she would tell me to call at a certain time, and i would only have like 30 min talking window, if i called 20 min later she gotta leave to go to class in 10 min and would barely have time to talk and she would get mad sometimes. so lately ive been trying to call exactly when she says but obviously that isnt working so i am going to be more laid back with the calling thing.

the reason i always have to call her if ur wondering, is something got screwed up with her phone bill at school in the first year and she never ended up paying it so she cant call me i wouuld always have to call her

[ChadTower]

No, we're going to point out that she switched over to talk to her cousin and yet her cousin says she hasn't called in two weeks.

Cousin ---my bottom---.  Or her ass.  Someone is getting some ass, that's for sure.

[Sephroth57]

no, her cousin told me she was going to call her that night.


believe me, there is no other guy. shes not like that and she told me that to my face, she wouldnt lie to my face

[ChadTower]

 

[Sephroth57]

another thing that sucks, lets say hypotheticly i need to go find another chick or something, my requirements for a girl worth dating, are so weird and specific its gonna be <auto-censored> hard

first off, she has to have minimum strawberry blonde hair, preferably red. gotta be fair/pale skinned (i love the white chicks, no tan), preferably irish or sweedish or something like that. a small amount of freckles is hot, gotta have nice boobs (34B minimum).

[Sephroth57]

chad seriously, you dont know everything. although you think you have all the answers you dont know me that well, and you dont know kristen at all

[ChadTower]

Don't really have to, playing the percentages works a high percentage of the time.   

[GGKoul]

another thing that sucks, lets say hypotheticly i need to go find another chick or something, my requirements for a girl worth dating, are so weird and specific its gonna be <auto-censored> hard

first off, she has to have minimum strawberry blonde hair, preferably red. gotta be fair/pale skinned (i love the white chicks, no tan), preferably irish or sweedish or something like that. a small amount of freckles is hot, gotta have nice boobs (34B minimum).

[Shape D.]

Hey is Amanda or Kristin hot?

you could always try getting with one of those two. 

[ChadTower]

I believe Kristin is the now departed gf... so hey, if you want, she's available, though she's a Jersey girl which means RUN THE EFF AWAY.

[Shape D.]

ok then just go for amanda.

so.. im gonna talk to amanda soon and see what happened.

time to take advantage of an akward situation.

[ChadTower]

Eh, I've had too much Jersey redhead in my life as it is.  I don't need that drama.

[Shape D.]

Eh, I've had too much Jersey redhead in my life as it is.  I don't need that drama.

ewww thats gross. 

oh, i'm sorry i thought you ment these
http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/cattle/jersey/

[ChadTower]

No, think more along the lines of Courtney Love as a redhead, then make them slighly less stable.   And shorter.

[Shape D.]

No, think more along the lines of Courtney Love as a redhead, then make them slighly less stable.   And shorter.

ohhh like this
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000349/ 

[Sephroth57]

can u guys go wh0re another thread

[ChadTower]

No, think more along the lines of Courtney Love as a redhead, then make them slighly less stable.   And shorter.

ohhh like this
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000349/

No no no.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

can u guys go wh0re another thread

hehe..they are depraved aren't they?


Anyhow, I read through your story and it reminded me of how difficult the early stages of relationships can be. I've been with my GF for 14 years now, since High School...and we've been through it all. I'm 31 now and we still find ourselves working on issues from time to time.

If I can add a couple general pieces of advice, if I've learned anything in all that time together it's this:

- Sometimes you just don't know how you feel about the other person...and that's O.K. It doesn't mean dislike, it just means exactly what it sounds like, "I. Don't. know."

- Communication is the key. Talk about things before the problems become bigger than the solutions.

- Be willing to change the troublesome things that make you most unlike your true self.

Now for specific advice, to address your situation. It sounds like you need to lay it on the line for her (*NO ULTIMATUMS THOUGH*), then give her the time she wants to address her own feelings. Ask her when she'd have the time to listen to one, possibly last, important conversation. Let her pick the time and day. Make one more phone call to her and outline EXACTLY how you feel. Address the expectations you have had in the relationship in the past, explain how those may have changed with her latest revelations, and address the expectations you would *now* have were the relationship given another chance.

Outline your understanding of her concerns, have her help you understand them better if she feels you're off-base on a few. Explain that you understand she needs time and that you hope she understands your feelings for her. If you would plan on seeing other women, tell her this, out of respect, not in any vindictive way. Express your love/concern/care for her as best you can without being overly emotional and/or needy. Grin and bear it like a man who has lost a buddy on the battlefield, yet needs to keep fighting to save himself.

Then ask her, out of respect for the time you've had together, to call you when she has come to some sort of understanding of her own feelings, whatever they may be, and/or if she needs to talk to you to further that goal. Tell her you'd accept them on their own merit.

Then let her go. Play through the pain. If there is any chance for the relationship to work, she'd need to work just as hard as you, if not harder, given that she has neglected to communicate in the past. If she doesn't call back after whatever period of time you'd expect her to (I mean, just like a job interview, you generally know you're not getting the position after a while). Move on and allow yourself to have grown with the experience. Don't become bitter...become better for it.


*I apologize in advance for all the sports/militaristic analogies. This tends to happen when I am giving advice to other men, it helps me keep it macho.


mrC

[DaveMMR]

another thing that sucks, lets say hypotheticly i need to go find another chick or something, my requirements for a girl worth dating, are so weird and specific its gonna be <auto-censored> hard

first off, she has to have minimum strawberry blonde hair, preferably red. gotta be fair/pale skinned (i love the white chicks, no tan), preferably irish or sweedish or something like that. a small amount of freckles is hot, gotta have nice boobs (34B minimum).   so all those physical qualities, plus she has to be cool enough to deal with a guy into videogames, building my own arcade machines in my garage, im into racing cars on the track, all kind of weird ass crap, who else is going to happen to like all those things.. its like amazing that i found her

I think 99% of the men I know completely threw their "requirements" out the window when they met the right girl.  However, if it's just for fun, then by all means stick with the qualities you find cool.  But do yourself a favor and don't limit yourself.  You might be missing out on a wonderful girl just because she's a brunette and you want blond/redhead or her breasts aren't 34B's. 

By the way, to help the healing, rent Swingers (no, seriously) and avoid Say Anthing (women do not like men who try to woo them back by standing outside their window with a boom box - believe you me).
 

[Luxury]

This is completely off THIS topic, but it does fall under the "The worst time in my life" thingy.

My girlfriend and I just broke up 2 nights ago.  Caught me completely off guard.  We had been going out for 6 years now, and have lived together that entire time.  We didn't even have a fight or anything stupid like that.  She was waiting at home, said "We need to talk", and then stated that she wanted to break up with me.  She had put a lot of thought into it, and that really makes me wonder, because only weeks before we were talking about getting married.  Plus we have tickets to hawaii next week, which she might still go, but I just lost a bunch of money on. 

So anyways, this is the first time i've ever been in a breakup (I'm 26 btw), and it's especially hard because we are still living together until both of us can find new apartments.  More like a divorce than a break up because with a break up, you don't see the person anymore.  I however have to keep seeing her until I can find a new place and move all my junk - probably another month or so.  We don't really have any close friends or family one of us could stay with, so that's out of the question.  Plus we need to figure out who gets what (furniture and stuff) which I'm dreading. 

Luckily, I am extremely busy at work this week, so I've been getting home very very late and have hardly seen her since.  Unfortunately, because of this - I have absolutely no chance of apt searching in the meantime, which makes me spend more time with her in my life.  Which I don't necessarily want her completely out of.  I'd still like to be somewhat of friends with, with minimal awkwardness when we see each other again. 


So anyways, sorry to hear about your hard time in your life, but it really doesn't sound all that bad everything things considered...

[danny_galaga]

ok. my serious advice now! when my first girlfriend broke it off i was totally shattered. i was so lost. years later i realised i was off the rails a bit. you won't see it right now but one of the worst things you can do is keep calling her. the way you described how you felt about phone calls and the like reminded me of me a lot. i probably called her as often as you have been doing but in retrospect i think it bordered on stalking! the problem is you start to think 'i dont want to call her just yet, its too soon'. then you start counting down the time until you think it should be ok to call- hanging on 'rules' that you imagine she has about when it might be ok. but ANYTIME you call reminds her of the problems and will put her on the back foot. she will probably be wanting to just forget things for a bit.

this is my advice. DONT call her. DONT buy her presents. DONT buy her flowers. but DONT do any of those things to play hard to get. DO them to give her space. you CANT TIME how long that is either. she will call you, or she wont. early on someone said you cant make someone love you. thats everything in a nutshell.

but i was YOU once. i didnt understand any of that then either. you cant see clearly until much later. emotions really get in the way.

[shmokes]

And hey....at the time of all my troubles I just wished that everything would go back to the way they were when everything was cool.

But I'll be ---Bad words, bad words, whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when saint censors you?--- if my wife isn't WAY cooler and WAY hotter and WAY more secure and WAY more  pretty-much-everything-good than the girl that caused me all the pain.  And I never would hhooked up with my wife if I'd stayed in that relationship.

My miserable breakup was one of the best things that ever happened to me.  It was a great learning experience.  It sucked at the time, of course, but it gave me all kinds of useful experience, like I learned how to turn off my emotions like a switch when I sense danger.  This can be a double edged sword...but I digress

So anyway...it was useful and whatnot, but mainly it led to my current situation which is probably as near to perfection as a man can hope for.

So yeah, buck up.  She may have been good...but for all you know there's a clone of my wife out there that you'll meet in a few months.  After that this girl will be ancient history 

[Sephroth57]

well i signed up at the gym today.. felt really good working out and stuff. i think im gonna start going 3 times a week, it took my mind off things..

and im not calling until she calls me..

[Crazy Cooter]

I'm no expert, but I've run with a few different girls.   Here's my $0.02:

- Caution: This is blunt & to the point -

She went to an all girl school.  Now she's 21 (I'd guess for about 6 months right?).  She goes to the bars and the dudes hit on her.  They doddle over her waaay more than you did (exact reasons unimportant).  That gets her thinking that some, probably most, of these guys went to college.  They have the same "worldly experience" as she does and she relates to them better.

She wants to try and play the game.  She might not be unhappy with you exactly, but she's wondering if she would be happier with someone else (see above).

Just like you said yourself, "but shes not saying i should wait for her. she just knows that im that stubborn and i will wait".  Where's the risk?  She keeps you as a friend until she decides whether or not she'd be happier with someone else.  Meanwhile you're in limbo.  Just like you are now.  You're close to the answer when you say "believe me, there is no other guy".  It's because there are all those other guys.  I'm not saying she's a ---stingray--- or anything near that.  Most likely she's never done anything with anyone else.  But she's (probably) thinking what it would be like dating someone else.

You can get pissed at her or you can try everything you can to try and "make it up to her".  It's pretty much worthless.  It's her decision.  Give her the room to make it.  I'd say the chances of it all working out and you guys skipping into the sunset are pretty slim though.  Go to the gym.  deal with it there.  It'll be easier to catch the next one.  Don't be so quick to rule the new ones out though.  I wasn't happy until I finally dated someone closer to my age.  I always went at least 3 years younger.

PS:  If she comes around this weekend, point her to this thread and ask her what she thinks of the responses here.  Sometimes it's easier to get something out that is already "out".  I'd say you guys are just heading different directions.

Anyhow, I'll second Shmokes statement: "My miserable breakup was one of the best things that ever happened to me."  And his wifes clone IS as good as he says.  Wait a minute... she has a clone?

[danny_galaga]

well i signed up at the gym today.. felt really good working out and stuff. i think im gonna start going 3 times a week, it took my mind off things..

and im not calling until she calls me..

that's the spirit!!

[pointdablame]

Ok, well I didn't read the ENTIRE post, but...

First off, I'm sorry.  I just turned 21 yesterday, been with my gf for about 4 years now, and would not know what to do in your situation.  At the very least, know that I am at a very similar part of my life, and agree it would be hard.

One thing though.... don't keep calling and talking to her.  She wanted to break it off. She wanted space. She wants to "be friends."  You'll only push her farther away.  If it's meant to be, she'll come back.  If not, you'll get over it... eventually.  That idea must suck.. I know, but it IS true.

and PS (not directed at Seph) - there is NOTHING wrong with Jersey girls.. in fact... there are no comparisons.  If you don't like them, it's cuz you can't handle them

[shmokes]

well i signed up at the gym today.. felt really good working out and stuff. i think im gonna start going 3 times a week, it took my mind off things..

and im not calling until she calls me..

Oh yeah...be careful with that, too.  I think we have a tendency, as humans, to interpret things how we want to interpret them.  She WILL call you.  Even if all the bad stuff that we're suggesting is true, this will sting for her as well.  When she doesn't have other plans and she's bored and lonely, she'll call you.  You might be tempted to think that she is having a change of heart, when in reality she might think about it the next day and be mad at herself for giving in.  If that's the case she will probably give in less and less as time goes by.  I would seriously prepare yourself for that possibility.

Most importantly, try to convince yourself (mainly because it's true) that this is likely a good thing.  It doesn't just go for relationships.  It goes for all kinds of fate stuff.  I was working for a coffee shop and the owner up and closed shop, left town and stiffed me for more than $500.  We were really good friends too.  It was horrible.  I was living paycheck to paycheck.  Suddenly I was unemployed AND I wasn't even going to get the next check that was supposed to be coming in just a couple days.  It was horrible.  If it hadn't happened I would not have the job I have now, which I love, and get paid nearly triple what I made at the coffee shop. 

What's that saying about "when god closes a door she opens a window....?"   Oftentimes it's closer to, "When god closes a window she waits a couple months and then busts down the wall." 

Anyway...yeah.  The gym's a good idea.  Confidence is important and anything like this is a major blow to the self-esteem.  Nothing like getting nice and cut to bounce that back up.

[Bones]

I read some of this stuff and I can

[danny_galaga]

I just can't imagine getting hung up on a girl these days who was jerking me around. I just simply wouldn't tolerate any crap.

its called being in love. does that too ya. thats why i dont fall in love anymore. my hearts been ripped out and jammed back in once too often. something got broke...

[DrewKaree]

No, danny, they just forgot, when jamming it back in, to be careful, your conscience is attached there, and it's a frail connection....it prolly got caught on something and fell off. 

Maybe retrace your steps and you'll find it....if'n you want to, that is 


Oh, and I was wondering, seeing all the action and advice this thread is getting, if you girls would all like to get together for a cookie exchange or mebbe we could start a sewing circle 


Here's the advice we should be giving a fellow brudda:
     Toughen up Sally, rub some dirt on it and you'll be fine.

That should cover EVERYTHING, from a broken heart to Broken Bones

[Bones]

its called being in love. does that too ya. thats why i dont fall in love anymore. my hearts been ripped out and jammed back in once too often. something got broke...

Ahhh love.... Well I had my heart broke once when I was 17. She was soooo pretty and ummm, perky.

At the time it wasn't a nice feeling but now that I am wiser older, I would never fall so hard again I am sure. Emotions always seem stronger when you are younger.

[Sephroth57]

i have a feeling if this doesnt work out... im going to hate women for a long time...

[danny_galaga]

yep, that feeling should last a good six months or so 

[rampy]

i have a feeling if this doesnt work out... im going to hate women for a long time...

I admit I didn't read the whole post, but will at some point when i'm not at work... so i'm inferring or guessing a lot...

have you seen "swingers"? 

Have you been to the ta-ta club since the breakup?

Just my underinformed two quick hit, generic upset about woman problem thoughts... 

*shrug*

rampy

[Sephroth57]

i have a feeling if this doesnt work out... im going to hate women for a long time...

I admit I didn't read the whole post, but will at some point when i'm not at work... so i'm inferring or guessing a lot...

have you seen "swingers"?

[Shape D.]

never bring in more than you want to spend

correct, don't bring your time card eaither.

[GGKoul]

i have a feeling if this doesnt work out... im going to hate women for a long time...

I admit I didn't read the whole post, but will at some point when i'm not at work... so i'm inferring or guessing a lot...

have you seen "swingers"?

[Shape D.]

Going to a strip club is a bad idea for you.  Because your going to see girls that you can't touch.  And then you going to go home and have nothing TOO TOUCH.

[Sephroth57]

i have a feeling if this doesnt work out... im going to hate women for a long time...

I admit I didn't read the whole post, but will at some point when i'm not at work... so i'm inferring or guessing a lot...

have you seen "swingers"?

[Bones]

I disagree. There is nothing a fine stripper can't fix. 

[GGKoul]

I disagree. There is nothing a fine stripper can't fix.

[Sephroth57]

nah the one near me is full nude =)

20$ for a 5 min lapdance.. not bad really. then ya know the usual 1$ when the chick comes around if ur sitting right at the stage

the really sleezy cheap guys just sit in the 2nd row so they dont have to put the 1$ up for when the girls come around, they just watch lol. i hate those guys

[CCM]

Going to a strip club is a bad idea for you.  Because your going to see girls that you can't touch.  And then you going to go home and have nothing TOO TOUCH.

well, there's one thing he can touch, unless he doesn't have any arms..   

[Jabba]

Not having read the whole post, only broad segments, I think this stuff hits you harder when you are younger. You may be less developed emotionally likle us older guys (although if my wife of 12 years split, I'd be toast!).

This happened to me (break-up with a "true-love") in my early twenties and I took it pretty hard. Time heals all wounds. I know its a cliche but its true. I think it would be best to move on. Let her go. It won't feel the same anyways now that you've been hurt sooo bad. Someone got it right before. When you meet the one, you won't have to really try that hard. It just comes natually. GO BACK TO SCHOOL!!!!! Very important in this day and age unless you're independantly wealthy and/or have a rich Uncle...!

Does she have a friend you've ever flirted with? That WOULD be sweet

[Bones]

well, there's one thing he can touch, unless he doesn't have any arms..

[Jabba]

[Been there done that. I can confirm masturbating with your toes does not work.

That's a pretty strong statement BB...

[Bones]

[Been there done that. I can confirm masturbating with your toes does not work.

That's a pretty strong statement BB...

It's kind of like trying to kiss your own elbow. You think you can do it and you keep trying, but it's just impossible.   

[danny_galaga]

nah the one near me is full nude =)

20$ for a 5 min lapdance.. not bad really. then ya know the usual 1$ when the chick comes around if ur sitting right at the stage

the really sleezy cheap guys just sit in the 2nd row so they dont have to put the 1$ up for when the girls come around, they just watch lol. i hate those guys

don't do it! the first and only time i went to a lap dance joint was in vancouver. got a 'free' pass for a dance. of course that lasts about 5 minutes and then you are mesmerised into paying for more. with what i spent i coulda got the whole enchilada at the 'penthouse' club downtown...

[nipsmg]

Sep:

Here's the deal man:

I've been in your situation.   I know how bad heartache can be, and no matter how many times people tell you what I'm going to tell you, you don't want to hear it, because you think noone else can possibly know what you feel.  I've been in your EXACT situation.


A) Trust me, you will get over this and move on.
B) You WILL look back at some point in your life, and see all the crap you dealt with because you were blinded by love.  YOu'll then thank god you have your current girlfriend and that you're not back with that girl who gave you so much crap. 
C) You'll get your heart broken again, and repeat steps A and B, a few times.
D) This is VERY IMPORTANT: 
    What the girl wants, to still "have you in her life" is rediculous and selfish.  She wants you to be the boyfriend.. the same boyfriend, The guy who does everything for her, is sweet to her, etc, but she wants ABSOLUTELY NO PHYSICAL OR EMMOTIONAL OBLIGATION TO YOU SO SHE CAN SCREW AROUND WITH WHOEVER SHE WANTS AND NOT FEEL GUILTY ABOUT IT.  I know it's harsh, but trust me, it's true.

    SAY OUT of that situation for a while.  IF you find out a year from now you run into each other and catch up on old times, and can still remain friends, cool.  It's happened with 2 of my ex's, and we're still pretty good friends.


Until then GO DO STUFF. Seriously.  Go to the gym and work out your anger.  Actually, use your anger and hurt to sculpt yourself into a more desireable person, then use it to your advantage and get another girl... and watch your old one squirm .. lol  ( I know a kid who was overweight who did that.. it was kind of amazing to see the transformation after 6 months, and his ex was a wreck for losing him).  Throw yourself into some project.  Do SOMETHING.


Turn your negative energy into a positive result.

--NipsMG

[DrewKaree]

never bring in more than you want to spend

correct, don't bring your time card eaither.

Although when she bent over in front of you, swiping your time card there might be the funniest thing you ever do in life, and she may even get the joke and like ya fer it...solving yer problem....unless you have a problem with yer woman showing her bod fer a buncha preverts.....and it sounds like Seph WOULD have issues with that.

I disagree. There is nothing a fine stripper can't fix. 

I have a bad starter from my Suburban sitting downstairs.  I'm betting she can't fix THAT!  (although she CAN get my starter working!  )

[Bones]

I disagree. There is nothing a fine stripper can't fix.

[GameOver]

S57 - Hang in there.  Keep a good attitude.  Things will turn around for you.  Promise.  Watch some re-runs of 'The Man Show' or somethin.  That'll help.

Here's what I've learned from this thread;

1)  Dr. Phil's got nuthin' on BYOAC members!
2)  Girls can make guya crazy! (what doesn't kill you makes you stronger!)
3)  Best strip clubs are in Canada (been there, know that!)
4)  Drew is one funny sum beach! (p.s. where's my tax report?)

I bet you'll find a fair skinned strawberry blonde that can whoop your ass in Pac-Man before ya know it.

[Sephroth57]

well im not in the mood right now to type up all the information thats happened between my last large post and now.. but i think things are looking up a little bit. Once she saw i started doing my own thing, hitting the gym , being with friends goin out a little more, i took a lot of pressure off her and gave her time to think without feeling really guilty for making me miserable. Also I already had a girl at a party try to get me to come to her house when she was half drunk at 1am... so she knows that if she doesnt act pretty soon I have options.. (btw i turned down the chick)

lately there has been decent progress, i didnt call her for a full day and a half, a lot of the time she was busy with classes and stuff but there were times when shes usually in the room and i didnt call. so she finally called me and was like oh you didnt call, been busy lately? im like yeah kinda, yah know. so i think that kind of concerned her, not getting the daily call. lately shes been calling me the past couple days.

also, she initiated the hand holding today in the mall..

also, some other good stuff.. just like little things. and she pecked me on the lips today. first time she kissed me not on the cheek since this whole thing happened. and i looked at her suprised, and im like damn thats it? and she goes, we need to take baby steps, and smiled. and im like ok...


i dunno you guys are prolly gonna be like dont get excited blah blah. but im not taking this as like signs from god, but i just had a good day and im in a happy mood so. yeah...

[DrewKaree]

Given enough time and seeing the roller coaster that would put any theme park to shame that this has/is/was becoming, I'm thinking you're glad this guy's not on regular anymore 

[Sephroth57]

Given enough time and seeing the roller coaster that would put any theme park to shame that this has/is/was becoming, I'm thinking you're glad this guy's not on regular anymore

[Grasshopper]

well im not in the mood right now to type up all the information thats happened between my last large post and now.. but i think things are looking up a little bit. Once she saw i started doing my own thing, hitting the gym , being with friends goin out a little more, i took a lot of pressure off her and gave her time to think without feeling really guilty for making me miserable. Also I already had a girl at a party try to get me to come to her house when she was half drunk at 1am... so she knows that if she doesnt act pretty soon I have options.. (btw i turned down the chick)

lately there has been decent progress, i didnt call her for a full day and a half, a lot of the time she was busy with classes and stuff but there were times when shes usually in the room and i didnt call. so she finally called me and was like oh you didnt call, been busy lately? im like yeah kinda, yah know. so i think that kind of concerned her, not getting the daily call. lately shes been calling me the past couple days.

also, she initiated the hand holding today in the mall..

also, some other good stuff.. just like little things. and she pecked me on the lips today. first time she kissed me not on the cheek since this whole thing happened. and i looked at her suprised, and im like damn thats it? and she goes, we need to take baby steps, and smiled. and im like ok...


i dunno you guys are prolly gonna be like dont get excited blah blah. but im not taking this as like signs from god, but i just had a good day and im in a happy mood so. yeah...

Sounds promising. Keep playing it cool.....

[Grasshopper]

Given enough time and seeing the roller coaster that would put any theme park to shame that this has/is/was becoming, I'm thinking you're glad this guy's not on regular anymore 

i read that about 3 times.. and i still dont get what youre takling about lol

Lol. I gave up trying to decipher Drew's posts a long time ago.

[Silver]

Hope things are looking up for you, assuming its what you and her want....

Reading this thread reminded me of times when I split up with my current gf (we got back together after a long break).  The situation was different to yours, but I remember feeling absolutely crap for a while.

One thing that did happen was that I realised I had been - at times - bending over backwards to suit her - and I ended up resenting her for it. While we were split up, I got on with a bunch of other stuff in my life - other friends, other hobbies, spending time doing stuff I wanted to do. When we started getting back together I realised I did not want to stop doing a lot of this stuff, so just kinda said so. Completely upfront - "I've been enjoying this two nights a week or whatever, I wanna keep doing it - how do you feel about that?"
Anyway, worked out really well. Feel my life is much more balanced now.

If you've enjoyed going down the gym or doing some more stuff than you used to, then try and keep on it no matter what happens with this girl.
Hey - maybe she even likes you going down the gym... 
I'm not saying be all "I am doing this, you gotta lump it"  - but try and work with her on it.


Oh and save some cash and go travelling. Ask her if she fancies joining you. But go see some other countries anyway. Its a LOT easier when you're young. This I strongly recommend whatever happens.

[Sephroth57]

yeah actually ive been wanting to go to japan for a really long time... weve talked about going together before but spending like 2-3K each isnt in either of our budgets right now.

her cousin that were both good friends with is going down to florida for like 5 days right after easter, we were thinking about going with them if things are more "normal" by then. i think a vacation together would be awesome, but not until shes comfortable with it

[DrewKaree]

i read that about 3 times.. and i still dont get what youre takling about lol

It wouldn't let me insert it into the sentence, so I posted the attachment.....and it's in light of your most recent "things are now GOOD" post.

Here, for you, and for Grasshopper, although I think he's got issues even a repost won't fix 

"Given enough time (to screw itself up) and seeing the roller coaster that would put any theme park to shame that this has/is/was becoming, (i.e. the ups and downs you are taking yourself through with this facking relationship)  I'm thinking you're glad this guy's (Jerry Springer) not on regular anymore (on Television, where we can all see your life go down the drain in less than a half hour) 

   Stop taking your helmet off once you get inside the house 

[Sephroth57]

thank you drew, i needed that dumbed down explanation. its way too early in the morning... only reason im awake is cause me and kristen are going out to breakfast in a few min 

[Silver]

yeah actually ive been wanting to go to japan for a really long time... weve talked about going together before but spending like 2-3K each isnt in either of our budgets right now.

Sounds good - you don't have to spend $$$ to go travelling. Do it on a budget - stay cheap and see some fun stuff. Makes it more interesting that way too, IMHO.

I also think half of it is seeing really different cultures in the world. It really opened up my eyes....


Good luck.

[Tiger-Heli]

Sephroth57,

Glad things seem to be looking up for you.  I've resisted saying anything b/c I didn't have much constuctive to share, but from an outside view, you are in way too deep here.

Let me give you an outside perspective - The thread is less than a week old.  You basically said that the girl wanted some space and then I saw five posts of different statuses of the relationship from you (I tried this, she did that) - I came into this late and thought maybe this is what happened over a few weeks and then realized this was what happened between the 8th and the 9th. . .

To summarize, it was kinda like "She needed some space, so I only called her five times yesterday instead of eight."  <okay, I'm exaggerating, but you get my drift. . .">

Girls want to be wanted, but they don't want you to be following them around like a puppy dog waiting on their every move.  They also don't want anything in your life to be more important than them, so you really can't win.

If she says she wants time to sort things out, then try to wait AT LEAST a couple of days without calling her.  (And I know that's tough to do when she's the only thing you think about, but . . .)

Anyway, glad things seem to be improving.

BTW, I think whoever gave the advice to show her this thread was a BAD suggestion.  She might read it and think "Awww, he cares enough to ask all these guys about what to do. . ." but that's about the only positive outcome.  She might be PISSED about you sharing all these personal details.  She might think it's a sign of immaturity <not saying I do, but she might> that you weren't able to suck it up and figure it out yourself.  And worse, if she feels that way, and the two of you don't work things out, she might mention this thread to any of her friends that you might be interested in (which might not be a bad thing, depending how the friend feels about it) . . .

[Sephroth57]

lol yeah i get your point tiger, but its not like ive really been doing anything for her though its just like we will hang out or something, and ill analyze everything when i get home and post here cause like, its all i can think about. She has been calling me more often than i call her now, and shes home all this week from school so i will probably be seeing her a lot this week..

but yeah it seems like things are going decent, so im just gonna keep doin what im doin and see what happens..

[Tiger-Heli]

>but its not like ive really been doing anything for her though its just like we will >hang out or something,

It's not always about doing things for them, sometimes just hanging around them gets on their nerves, or not being around when they think you should be, or wanting to be with them at this place when they want you to be with them at that place, or . . .

> and ill analyze everything when i get home and post here cause like, its all i can >think about.

Yeah, understood, I just think you should be aware of the risks in sharing your analysis on here with her. . .   A lot of times when I was confused, I would write a letter to the girl, just as a way to sort things out myself.  But I usually had the good sense to DESTROY said letter before anyone else saw it.

>She has been calling me more often than i call her now, and shes home all this >week from school so i will probably be seeing her a lot this week..

And it is Valentine's Day. . .

>but yeah it seems like things are going decent, so im just gonna keep doin what >im doin and see what happens..

Glad it seems to be working out.

[Sephroth57]

yeah so, the last 2 days were pretty good. we hung out valentines day night, didnt do much since she got out of work late just watched a movie, gave her her card and whatnot. we slept together that night (literally.. slept =P)

yesterday just did normal hanging out stuff, and apparently at my friends house last night i was really drunk. and i woke up this morning in her bed at her house lol... so yeah


edit: i dunno why i post here, i guess its because i think myspace and livejournal things are dumb. this way im venting, but to a specific group of people... but anyway you can ignore my postings unless like something crazy happens but from what im assuming the next month or so should be pretty uneventful, just building up trust and friendship again

[pointdablame]

not trying to be mean here.. but are you sure she isn't bi-polar or something?  It seems really strange (even for a woman) to break it off, say they're unhappy, say they need a break... and then just forget it for the most part.

Plus why do you have to build up trust... you didnt do anything.  She's the one who just decided to break it off.

[Tiger-Heli]

Plus why do you have to build up trust... you didnt do anything.  She's the one who just decided to break it off.

I think he means that she will trust him to try to be the person she wants him to be (at this time), unless she wants something different later.

There's not much point trying to figure women out.   Like teaching pigs to sing.

[Sephroth57]

Plus why do you have to build up trust... you didnt do anything.

[Tiger-Heli]

about the bi-polar thing, i seriously have wondered about that on ocassion. cause i know her mom has something like that, shes like depressed and takes some kind of prozac kind of <auto-censored>. like how do they test for bi-polar is it some kind of chemical imbalance or they have to like test you mentally with questions or whatever.

not like im gonna be like oh hey kristen i was thinking, youre probably bi-polar. but ya know, something to think about

Dated a girl on Prozac for depression before. . . don't really like the stuff (the meds or their effect)  AFAIK, she basically got some counseling and guit taking it.

I'm no expert, but bi-polar used to be called manic-depressive, which was an easier to understand definition.

Basically it means that the person is happy one minute and crying the next.  Violent mood swings (without it being that time of the month, or the week after, or the week before, so even during that one good week).  Sorry for making light of a serious issue.  Good thing not too many women read this board.

I don't know if there's a chemical test for it or not.  I suspect like most psychological things, there's no treatment unless it becomes a problem.  Like if you get drunk every weekend and sleep it off Saturday, no one cares, but if you start repeatedly being too hung over to go to work it's an issue.

[DrewKaree]

There is a test for it, but unless you suspect it and care to find out if you have it, you won't know it unless you get locked up for something related to it and you need to get off on some charge   

My wife's friend has it, and wanted to know if that was it specifically (in case she passed it along to her daughter), so she investigated it and did what was necessary to be tested for it.  The meds are the biggest problem, because they can become ineffective, or the dosage may be too high...and again, if you are having these problems, it's up to the individual to let the doctor know....and they've got issues to start with....kind of an effed up way to treat something, but at least they have methods to deal with them now.

Wait - if Seph is changing himself to make a potential bi-polar happy with his behavior and general attitude, what's that say about HIM!     

[Sephroth57]

well ya know, females are a mysterious thing. for all I know shes probably just a normal girl... (ok theres no way shes normal.. but thats why i like her).. but yah u get my point =p

we were in the store the other day and she saw a mspac/galaga for sale for like somethin ridiculous like 4k, and shes like pssh you can build a better one than that for cheaper...  and im like, thats badass she knows that lol.


oh yeah i discovered spooning while sleeping, when you havent gotten any for a month, is really bad... she tends to like cuddle against me, thus waking up the guy downstairs... and when he keeps getting woken up with no buisness going on he gets pissed off and sore =P

[DrewKaree]

.....leapfrogging over Zakk's newest revelation to the top of the "coulda gone to my grave happy NEVER EVER knowing/hearing the information just given" - SEPHROTH!

[Shape D.]

.....leapfrogging over Zakk's newest revelation to the top of the "coulda gone to my grave happy NEVER EVER knowing/hearing the information just given" - SEPHROTH!

I'll second that.

[Tiger-Heli]

.....leapfrogging over Zakk's newest revelation to the top of the "coulda gone to my grave happy NEVER EVER knowing/hearing the information just given" - SEPHROTH!

TMI

[Sephroth57]

lmao, i figured as much but i thought it was kind of hillarious. ive never actually experienced "blue balls" until this morning

[pointdablame]

.....leapfrogging over Zakk's newest revelation to the top of the "coulda gone to my grave happy NEVER EVER knowing/hearing the information just given" - SEPHROTH!

I'll second (third? tenth?) this idea although.........

lmao, i figured as much but i thought it was kind of hillarious. ive never actually experienced "blue balls" until this morning

This is also a major case of TMI

[RacerX]

Buck up little camper 

He needs to ski the K-12!

By the way, Seph, I was wondering if it's okay if *I* take out Beth?   

[RacerX]

Seriously, though.  This story is amazingly similar to what I went through 10 years ago.  My girlfriend of 3 and a half years broke up with me, and I joined a gym and got a life outside of just her!

You're like a younger version of me!  I have good news for you, my friend.  You're going to be better than okay.  You're going to be great no matter how this turns out!

I don't really have any advice other than some of the things that have already been said.  I just wanted you to know that there is yet another person out here who has been through it.

I wish you all the best.

[menace]

Not to sound insensitive but if this is the worst time of your life,its fair to say you've had a pretty good life--breaking up with a girl is hard on you but in the grand scheme of things, pretty minor.  Wait till you lose your job and have a mortgage and kids and have to feed them, or someone you care about is diagnosed with cancer.  anyways good luck with her--I hope you keep some perspective on this second phase of your realtionship that you may not have had the first time around (i.e don't put up with crazy woman sh$t--there are soooo many non crazy women that deserve some lovin )

[Rutger6559]

First off, this is my 1st post so I hope it comes out OK.

Now for the meat and taters:

Seph,

I read only about half the replies so forgive me if I'm repeating things but the first thing I want to say to you is:

Congratulations!  You're a normal, healthy, seemingly well-adjusted American male who's 20.

Sounds crazy, huh?  It ain't.  I was where you are.  ALL of my friends were once where you are.  I'll tell you what I was told.  I don't expect it to help, because we never listened, but you have no problem at all.  It's merely that you perceive you have a problem. 

I know.  You're saying, "Thanks for nothing you heartless b@stard."  Nuh uh.  It's just that I'm older and wiser just as you'll be one day.  You're gonna look back on this type of crap and laugh your @ss off in a few short years.

I don't want to sound harsh, but this is truly the reality of it.  I know it sucks right now for you, and while I've told you the "real" situation,  I know it doesn't address your symptoms.  i.e. you still feel like ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.

So here we go:

Like you, many of us (me included) had that "first girl" who we dated.  Most likely she was your first and only one (mine was).  See what this is?  It's all your eggs in one basket.  You've only test driven one car off the lot.  When you first played (insert favorite arcade game name here) were you any good at it?  Nope.  It took you loads of experience playing it to get "natural" at it. 

Dating is the same thing.  You gotta get yourself to the point where, when you get dumped, you lick your wounds for a while(it's only natural to feel hurt), but you bounce back reasonably quickly and GET BACK IN THE GAME.  After I would get dumped for the Nth time, I'd always say to myself on the drive home, "Well at least I got X months of 'combat experience' out of that relationship."  And it was true!  I'd think back over the relationship, and I'd realize that I'd learned a few things.

My advice to you is to cut this one loose.  As most have said, it looks to be over, and, let me tell you, this is a CLASSIC stage where most of these types of relationships die.  It hurts like hell, but nothing is free.  Look over all that you have learned, take inventory of it, then get up and hold your head up high and get on with life.

My best advice is this:  Figure out what you want to do, and throw all  of your energy into it.  You may not get it right on the first few tries, but something will click sooner or later.  I've heard that men are most attractive to women when the last thing the guy is trying to do is attract women.  I can tell you from experience that this is true.  At least  I sure seemed to meet more women when it wasn't even on my mind.

I wish I had an easy fix for you, my friend, but nothing that was worth anything was ever free or easy to obtain.

I'm not sure I'll be able to find this post again, so email me at rutger6559@yahoo.com if you wanna throw something past me or ask me more about what I've written.

I know it sucks, but you'll be back on the horse in no time!

Peace out, bro!

Rick