the story, of the worst time in my life

[Shape D.]

If you read the article, it doesn't state that.  It mainly saids stop doing "friends" things with her and do more exciting things together.

what I read was basically: ignore her, have fun with other girls (or at least make it seem like youre having fun with other girls), and that if shes done with seing you to tell her to f off.

AKA start being a jerk

[GGKoul]

AKA start being a jerk

Whatever works for you.  But I met the women I met over the years because I was a nice guy and I was not-a-jerk.

[DaveMMR]

Nyeh, I know Seph some, and there's some backstory to this.  He's a friend, but I'll be honest here.  She's in that point in her life where she's getting out of school soon, moving on with life for the career, etc.  Seph has shown no interest in getting an education, a career... he's not going anywhere.  Chicks don't want that guy who is too lazy to even go to community college because that guy's never going to progress any further.

It's lame sometimes, but that's just how it is.  I wouldn't want a chick who never developed some type of career or true independence after high school.  The way she sees it, Seph is one layoff away from being a Walmart employee and is doing nothing to change that.  I'm not saying he should go to MIT and study Astrophysics, but showing some type of ambition in life would have helped his case with her.

I was in the same boat as Seph. I had a gf when I was 21.  I had taken a break from college at the time (because, let's be honest here, I had no idea what I wanted to do and I didn't feel like shelling out the cash for uncertainty).  I wasn't lazy or a bum.  I worked a full time job at an insurance office and while I wasn't rich, I wasn't sponging off anyone.  But she broke up with me after a year because the lack of a degree didn't sit right with her.  Meanwhile, she's changed majors fifteen times now and is spending all of her daddies money trying to figure out a job that won't have her breaking into tears over the stress.

Honestly - good riddance to my ex.  College is important and nice and all but if a girl is judging a man based on his earning potential (and I'm not referring to your ex Seph - just all women in general) then she just openly admitted she's a gold digger.  Why?  Women have the almost same opprutunities as men.  If she wants that nice house and that expensive car then she can go out and get it herself!  I'm not saying women should date bums, but uneducated does not mean stupid nor does it mean unemployable (Bill Gates was a college drop-out).  And contrary to what the universities say, education is free.  It's the degree that costs money. 

You know what though?  Men don't have the same hang-ups as women.  Men wouldn't dump a perfect woman who just happens to not have a degree.  As long as she's got a job, is responsible for her own actions, and doesn't leech off of her man then college education is hardly an issue.  And if you are judging women by that, your priorities in life are severely out of whack.

Additionally, not going to 'even a Community College' doesn't mean lazy.  Education, even in a community college, costs some serious dough.  And don't tell me "financial aid" or "student loans" will help.   Did you know that when I applied for my computer school they told me I make too much money for financial aid?  I wish I was making "too much money" but they seem to have forgotten lliving expenses.  I did get a loan but only for half.  That was $5000 out of pocket I had to pay.

Ambition is important - but he's only in his early 20s.  I didn't figure out anything until I was in my mid-20s.  Take your time Seph.   

Anyway, my current girlfriend knows about my decisions in life and what I do for a living and where I intend to take what I've learned.  She doesn't judge me on anything and she's great that way.  That's the type of girl you should strive for, because you don't want someone who'll leave you if times get rough and belts need to be tightened.

[Sephroth57]

i dont really have time to sit here and make a long reply. but ive been trying to absorb all the totally different views a lot of you have and sorting out what i think is right... some decent advice here i would say if u wade through the crap..

this board is more mature then most i go to so i figured here would be the best place for actual conversation

[ChadTower]

Additionally, not going to 'even a Community College' doesn't mean lazy. 

It is for the reasons Seph has given.  He doesn't want to write essays that don't interest him. 

[GGKoul]

i dont really have time to sit here and make a long reply. but ive been trying to absorb all the totally different views a lot of you have and sorting out what i think is right... some decent advice here i would say if u wade through the crap..

this board is more mature then most i go to so i figured here would be the best place for actual conversation

We are only trying to help.

[Sephroth57]

yeah im not saying its a bad thing, reading all the replies is giving me some views i wouldnt have thought of on my own. keep discussing =)

[Shape D.]

Bottom line though youre 20.
If she doesn't want to be with you or even if shes not sure don't waste your time making her happy. make yourself happy and find someone who wont string you along making you feel like crap.

[RayB]

Cut her loose. Shut off all contact.
The second you have to start "strategizing" is when you know it's all over.

As for the "acting like a jerk" discussion. It's not the bring a jerk women find attractive, it's the confidence that usually goes along with it.

[DrewKaree]

and what you've just said ISN'T some sort of magic bullet?

No, it's silver, like the Loan Arranger's

She might even accidentally ask you for a tampon sometime soon.

You'd have less chance of getting her as there is the chance of finding a full set of teeth on the Denny's night shift.)

BEST two lines I've heard this year!  THAT is some funny shite!

[GGKoul]

She might even accidentally ask you for a tampon sometime soon.

You'd have less chance of getting her as there is the chance of finding a full set of teeth on the Denny's night shift.)

BEST two lines I've heard this year!

[shmokes]

Continuing to fester on this is a recipe for disaster.

Drew....once again you completely baffle me.  I thought you and Fredster were on the same team.  Now you've turned his name into a pejorative verb, saying, "Continuing to fredster on this is a recipe for disaster."

WTF???  Give the guy a break.

[Sephroth57]

just an update... im trying to be more umm less needy seeming. i have been calling her pretty much whenever she tells me that shell be in her room. well last night she said shed be in her room after 11am, and then she works at 3. so i called this morning at 11 and she was on the phone, the thing that annoys me is she has call waiting, and it tells you whos calling on the other line so she saw i was calling and decided not to switch over. so that kind of pissed me off, so im not calling today unless she calls me

[Shape D.]

just an update... im trying to be more umm less needy seeming. i have been calling her pretty much whenever she tells me that shell be in her room. well last night she said shed be in her room after 11am, and then she works at 3. so i called this morning at 11 and she was on the phone, the thing that annoys me is she has call waiting, and it tells you whos calling on the other line so she saw i was calling and decided not to switch over. so that kind of pissed me off, so im not calling today unless she calls me

dude if she tells you she'll be there from 11 - 3, at least save yourself some dignity. If youre going to call her, call her at 12:30 or 1:00

[ChadTower]

No crap, calling dead at 11 is the worst thing to do.

[Sephroth57]

also now that i think about it, i think it might have something to do with last night. when i was talkin to her before bed, her cousin was beepin on the other line so im like ok im goign to sleep anyway go switch over, so we hung up and they talked. shes really close with her cousin usually, they always tell each other everything. well i was talkin to her cousin about all this crap the other day, and shes like yeah kristen hasnt even called me for 2 weeks im kinda pissed she hasnt called to talk to me. and that seemed really weird to me. amanda (her cousin) said she really doesnt know what her deal is, and she really wants to find out cause this isnt like kristen at all. she was pretty much on my side and said she would talk to kristen and see what this whole deal is, cause its not like her to not tell amanda anything

and yeah i know youre gonna say well theyre girls amanda isnt gonna tell me everything kristen said cause theyre like that. and im aware of that, but amanda was seriously bothered that kristen hasnt talked to her lately and really was on my side in this whole thing. so.. im gonna talk to amanda soon and see what happened. maybe thats part of the reason she didnt want to talk to me this morning

[Sephroth57]

No crap, calling dead at 11 is the worst thing to do.

see thats one of the many things that was bothering her when we were going out. she has limited time between classes and stuff so she would tell me to call at a certain time, and i would only have like 30 min talking window, if i called 20 min later she gotta leave to go to class in 10 min and would barely have time to talk and she would get mad sometimes. so lately ive been trying to call exactly when she says but obviously that isnt working so i am going to be more laid back with the calling thing.

the reason i always have to call her if ur wondering, is something got screwed up with her phone bill at school in the first year and she never ended up paying it so she cant call me i wouuld always have to call her

[ChadTower]

No, we're going to point out that she switched over to talk to her cousin and yet her cousin says she hasn't called in two weeks.

Cousin ---my bottom---.  Or her ass.  Someone is getting some ass, that's for sure.

[Sephroth57]

no, her cousin told me she was going to call her that night.


believe me, there is no other guy. shes not like that and she told me that to my face, she wouldnt lie to my face

[ChadTower]

 

[Sephroth57]

another thing that sucks, lets say hypotheticly i need to go find another chick or something, my requirements for a girl worth dating, are so weird and specific its gonna be <auto-censored> hard

first off, she has to have minimum strawberry blonde hair, preferably red. gotta be fair/pale skinned (i love the white chicks, no tan), preferably irish or sweedish or something like that. a small amount of freckles is hot, gotta have nice boobs (34B minimum).

[Sephroth57]

chad seriously, you dont know everything. although you think you have all the answers you dont know me that well, and you dont know kristen at all

[ChadTower]

Don't really have to, playing the percentages works a high percentage of the time.   

[GGKoul]

another thing that sucks, lets say hypotheticly i need to go find another chick or something, my requirements for a girl worth dating, are so weird and specific its gonna be <auto-censored> hard

first off, she has to have minimum strawberry blonde hair, preferably red. gotta be fair/pale skinned (i love the white chicks, no tan), preferably irish or sweedish or something like that. a small amount of freckles is hot, gotta have nice boobs (34B minimum).

[Shape D.]

Hey is Amanda or Kristin hot?

you could always try getting with one of those two. 

[ChadTower]

I believe Kristin is the now departed gf... so hey, if you want, she's available, though she's a Jersey girl which means RUN THE EFF AWAY.

[Shape D.]

ok then just go for amanda.

so.. im gonna talk to amanda soon and see what happened.

time to take advantage of an akward situation.

[ChadTower]

Eh, I've had too much Jersey redhead in my life as it is.  I don't need that drama.

[Shape D.]

Eh, I've had too much Jersey redhead in my life as it is.  I don't need that drama.

ewww thats gross. 

oh, i'm sorry i thought you ment these
http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/cattle/jersey/

[ChadTower]

No, think more along the lines of Courtney Love as a redhead, then make them slighly less stable.   And shorter.

[Shape D.]

No, think more along the lines of Courtney Love as a redhead, then make them slighly less stable.   And shorter.

ohhh like this
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000349/ 

[Sephroth57]

can u guys go wh0re another thread

[ChadTower]

No, think more along the lines of Courtney Love as a redhead, then make them slighly less stable.   And shorter.

ohhh like this
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000349/

No no no.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

can u guys go wh0re another thread

hehe..they are depraved aren't they?


Anyhow, I read through your story and it reminded me of how difficult the early stages of relationships can be. I've been with my GF for 14 years now, since High School...and we've been through it all. I'm 31 now and we still find ourselves working on issues from time to time.

If I can add a couple general pieces of advice, if I've learned anything in all that time together it's this:

- Sometimes you just don't know how you feel about the other person...and that's O.K. It doesn't mean dislike, it just means exactly what it sounds like, "I. Don't. know."

- Communication is the key. Talk about things before the problems become bigger than the solutions.

- Be willing to change the troublesome things that make you most unlike your true self.

Now for specific advice, to address your situation. It sounds like you need to lay it on the line for her (*NO ULTIMATUMS THOUGH*), then give her the time she wants to address her own feelings. Ask her when she'd have the time to listen to one, possibly last, important conversation. Let her pick the time and day. Make one more phone call to her and outline EXACTLY how you feel. Address the expectations you have had in the relationship in the past, explain how those may have changed with her latest revelations, and address the expectations you would *now* have were the relationship given another chance.

Outline your understanding of her concerns, have her help you understand them better if she feels you're off-base on a few. Explain that you understand she needs time and that you hope she understands your feelings for her. If you would plan on seeing other women, tell her this, out of respect, not in any vindictive way. Express your love/concern/care for her as best you can without being overly emotional and/or needy. Grin and bear it like a man who has lost a buddy on the battlefield, yet needs to keep fighting to save himself.

Then ask her, out of respect for the time you've had together, to call you when she has come to some sort of understanding of her own feelings, whatever they may be, and/or if she needs to talk to you to further that goal. Tell her you'd accept them on their own merit.

Then let her go. Play through the pain. If there is any chance for the relationship to work, she'd need to work just as hard as you, if not harder, given that she has neglected to communicate in the past. If she doesn't call back after whatever period of time you'd expect her to (I mean, just like a job interview, you generally know you're not getting the position after a while). Move on and allow yourself to have grown with the experience. Don't become bitter...become better for it.


*I apologize in advance for all the sports/militaristic analogies. This tends to happen when I am giving advice to other men, it helps me keep it macho.


mrC

[DaveMMR]

another thing that sucks, lets say hypotheticly i need to go find another chick or something, my requirements for a girl worth dating, are so weird and specific its gonna be <auto-censored> hard

first off, she has to have minimum strawberry blonde hair, preferably red. gotta be fair/pale skinned (i love the white chicks, no tan), preferably irish or sweedish or something like that. a small amount of freckles is hot, gotta have nice boobs (34B minimum).   so all those physical qualities, plus she has to be cool enough to deal with a guy into videogames, building my own arcade machines in my garage, im into racing cars on the track, all kind of weird ass crap, who else is going to happen to like all those things.. its like amazing that i found her

I think 99% of the men I know completely threw their "requirements" out the window when they met the right girl.  However, if it's just for fun, then by all means stick with the qualities you find cool.  But do yourself a favor and don't limit yourself.  You might be missing out on a wonderful girl just because she's a brunette and you want blond/redhead or her breasts aren't 34B's. 

By the way, to help the healing, rent Swingers (no, seriously) and avoid Say Anthing (women do not like men who try to woo them back by standing outside their window with a boom box - believe you me).
 

[Luxury]

This is completely off THIS topic, but it does fall under the "The worst time in my life" thingy.

My girlfriend and I just broke up 2 nights ago.  Caught me completely off guard.  We had been going out for 6 years now, and have lived together that entire time.  We didn't even have a fight or anything stupid like that.  She was waiting at home, said "We need to talk", and then stated that she wanted to break up with me.  She had put a lot of thought into it, and that really makes me wonder, because only weeks before we were talking about getting married.  Plus we have tickets to hawaii next week, which she might still go, but I just lost a bunch of money on. 

So anyways, this is the first time i've ever been in a breakup (I'm 26 btw), and it's especially hard because we are still living together until both of us can find new apartments.  More like a divorce than a break up because with a break up, you don't see the person anymore.  I however have to keep seeing her until I can find a new place and move all my junk - probably another month or so.  We don't really have any close friends or family one of us could stay with, so that's out of the question.  Plus we need to figure out who gets what (furniture and stuff) which I'm dreading. 

Luckily, I am extremely busy at work this week, so I've been getting home very very late and have hardly seen her since.  Unfortunately, because of this - I have absolutely no chance of apt searching in the meantime, which makes me spend more time with her in my life.  Which I don't necessarily want her completely out of.  I'd still like to be somewhat of friends with, with minimal awkwardness when we see each other again. 


So anyways, sorry to hear about your hard time in your life, but it really doesn't sound all that bad everything things considered...

[danny_galaga]

ok. my serious advice now! when my first girlfriend broke it off i was totally shattered. i was so lost. years later i realised i was off the rails a bit. you won't see it right now but one of the worst things you can do is keep calling her. the way you described how you felt about phone calls and the like reminded me of me a lot. i probably called her as often as you have been doing but in retrospect i think it bordered on stalking! the problem is you start to think 'i dont want to call her just yet, its too soon'. then you start counting down the time until you think it should be ok to call- hanging on 'rules' that you imagine she has about when it might be ok. but ANYTIME you call reminds her of the problems and will put her on the back foot. she will probably be wanting to just forget things for a bit.

this is my advice. DONT call her. DONT buy her presents. DONT buy her flowers. but DONT do any of those things to play hard to get. DO them to give her space. you CANT TIME how long that is either. she will call you, or she wont. early on someone said you cant make someone love you. thats everything in a nutshell.

but i was YOU once. i didnt understand any of that then either. you cant see clearly until much later. emotions really get in the way.

[shmokes]

And hey....at the time of all my troubles I just wished that everything would go back to the way they were when everything was cool.

But I'll be ---Bad words, bad words, whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when saint censors you?--- if my wife isn't WAY cooler and WAY hotter and WAY more secure and WAY more  pretty-much-everything-good than the girl that caused me all the pain.  And I never would hhooked up with my wife if I'd stayed in that relationship.

My miserable breakup was one of the best things that ever happened to me.  It was a great learning experience.  It sucked at the time, of course, but it gave me all kinds of useful experience, like I learned how to turn off my emotions like a switch when I sense danger.  This can be a double edged sword...but I digress

So anyway...it was useful and whatnot, but mainly it led to my current situation which is probably as near to perfection as a man can hope for.

So yeah, buck up.  She may have been good...but for all you know there's a clone of my wife out there that you'll meet in a few months.  After that this girl will be ancient history 

[Sephroth57]

well i signed up at the gym today.. felt really good working out and stuff. i think im gonna start going 3 times a week, it took my mind off things..

and im not calling until she calls me..

[Crazy Cooter]

I'm no expert, but I've run with a few different girls.   Here's my $0.02:

- Caution: This is blunt & to the point -

She went to an all girl school.  Now she's 21 (I'd guess for about 6 months right?).  She goes to the bars and the dudes hit on her.  They doddle over her waaay more than you did (exact reasons unimportant).  That gets her thinking that some, probably most, of these guys went to college.  They have the same "worldly experience" as she does and she relates to them better.

She wants to try and play the game.  She might not be unhappy with you exactly, but she's wondering if she would be happier with someone else (see above).

Just like you said yourself, "but shes not saying i should wait for her. she just knows that im that stubborn and i will wait".  Where's the risk?  She keeps you as a friend until she decides whether or not she'd be happier with someone else.  Meanwhile you're in limbo.  Just like you are now.  You're close to the answer when you say "believe me, there is no other guy".  It's because there are all those other guys.  I'm not saying she's a ---stingray--- or anything near that.  Most likely she's never done anything with anyone else.  But she's (probably) thinking what it would be like dating someone else.

You can get pissed at her or you can try everything you can to try and "make it up to her".  It's pretty much worthless.  It's her decision.  Give her the room to make it.  I'd say the chances of it all working out and you guys skipping into the sunset are pretty slim though.  Go to the gym.  deal with it there.  It'll be easier to catch the next one.  Don't be so quick to rule the new ones out though.  I wasn't happy until I finally dated someone closer to my age.  I always went at least 3 years younger.

PS:  If she comes around this weekend, point her to this thread and ask her what she thinks of the responses here.  Sometimes it's easier to get something out that is already "out".  I'd say you guys are just heading different directions.

Anyhow, I'll second Shmokes statement: "My miserable breakup was one of the best things that ever happened to me."  And his wifes clone IS as good as he says.  Wait a minute... she has a clone?