Too many emulators in cab?

[Richardgregory]

I"m thinking of redoing my Hyperspin set up and removing all systems except for MAME.  I'm finding that having so many emulators in it makes the interface too messy and don't think that anyone would be able to explore all the titles anyways.

Thoughts?  What do you all have emulated in your cab(s)? 

[yotsuya]

I"m thinking of redoing my Hyperspin set up and removing all systems except for MAME.  I'm finding that having so many emulators in it makes the interface too messy and don't think that anyone would be able to explore all the titles anyways.

Thoughts?  What do you all have emulated in your cab(s)?

So, you've seen the light too. I did the same thing myself years ago and it was the best thing I ever did.

[DaveMMR]

I've never put in anything more than just MAME (and perhaps Daphne) for that reason.  Just too much clutter on the cab and console games I'd much rather play on a console (or somewhere comfortable, like the couch) rather than standing at a cab.

[tomstewdevine]

Here is my timeline in this subject.

At First - I want every game ever Made inside my Multicade!!

Next - Ok, maybe I don't, I just want every Arcade Game ever made to be inside my home arcade.

Next - Ok, maybe I don't, I just want every arcade game that fits this joystick I have on my home arcade.

Next - Ok, maybe I don't, I just want every fun game with this Joystick that I have on this cab.

Next - Ok, maybe I don't, I just want dedicated cabs with one game.....

[Thenasty]

since day one, I only put ARCADE games (MAME) in my cab. I don't need A2600 (Pacman), NES (Pacman), SNES (Pacman) or (any other System/Emu or Games) etc..... 



one exception, Dragon's Lair for DOS 

[BadMouth]

Yeah, after a few years of never playing any console games on a cab other than the occasional dreamcast port of an arcade game I ditched all the consoles.

Not for the faint of heart, but my front end is set up so every arcade game shows up in the MAME gamelist regardless of what emulator it is run on.
(see the SGT's multiple emus in one list workaround stickied in the mala subforum)

It is awesome to have all arcade games together in one coherent list.
I do not know why people keep releasing new front-ends and don't consider adding this as a feature.

I don't currently have the time to work on it, but I've been wanting to make an "only working stuff worth having" list with a corresponding batch file to extract only needed roms from a full romset and a trimmed down mame.xml file.
Of course there will be no concensus, so it's just going to be my damn list.  Take it or leave it.

[Richardgregory]

Well put!  So true.....the reality is as I mature with my cab, I"m finding simple is better.  Heck, I think I might even start removing titles that I know the game isn't good to have on the cab.  Right now, I seem to have every MAME title in there.

P.S.  On a side note, is there a way to have Hypersin skip the wheel selection and jump right into the titles?  In this case, skip MAME and just have the scrolling of the titles. [I know, I know, I shouldn't be asking here]

Here is my timeline in this subject.

At First - I want every game ever Made inside my Multicade!!

Next - Ok, maybe I don't, I just want every Arcade Game ever made to be inside my home arcade.

Next - Ok, maybe I don't, I just want every arcade game that fits this joystick I have on my home arcade.

Next - Ok, maybe I don't, I just want every fun game with this Joystick that I have on this cab.

Next - Ok, maybe I don't, I just want dedicated cabs with one game.....

[jbl77]

Thinking when I build my cab I will only use it for MAME.  I have the SNES, NES stuff on my 360 which I think will be better that way for me.  To me, arcade games have a different "feel".  I can stand and play DK (was in my glory when I went to Disney World's Penny Arcade....which I hear they got rid of!!!  )  and have no problem with it.  But give me SMB and I am sorry...I need to be on a couch.

I have MAME on the 360 too but the controls are much less forgiving on the D-pad....hence my desire to build (and the fact I finally got my wife to agree to it...so long as it is nice and not tacky lol)

I think consoles belong in a console (even if they are emu'd on another console ).

[yotsuya]

I've never put in anything more than just MAME (and perhaps Daphne) for that reason.  Just too much clutter on the cab and console games I'd much rather play on a console (or somewhere comfortable, like the couch) rather than standing at a cab.

Exactly.

[yotsuya]

Here is my timeline in this subject.

At First - I want every game ever Made inside my Multicade!!

Next - Ok, maybe I don't, I just want every Arcade Game ever made to be inside my home arcade.

Next - Ok, maybe I don't, I just want every arcade game that fits this joystick I have on my home arcade.

Next - Ok, maybe I don't, I just want every fun game with this Joystick that I have on this cab.

Next - Ok, maybe I don't, I just want dedicated cabs with one game.....

Bravo!

[leapinlew]

Just Mame for me.

I've owned some dedicated machines, but ultimately switched up to MAME to allow the right games for my setup. 

[reptileink]

For me it's a toss up as I have basically gave up ownership of my one cab to my kids. They will play SMB till their legs go numb if I let them..lol. Going forward, I would love to just make a MAME cabinet to play. The reason I have so many consoles on my machine is that I don't currently own a SNES or Nintendo 64. I have a NES, Gamecube, Atari, but not a whole catalog of games. Yes, I know I could go buy the ones I a missing, but then I have to start buying  catalog of games again. I might just make a "console box" with Pi or whatever to leave in the house. That way, I don't need to hook up every physical console to our one living room TV.

I have slimmed down the games on the emu's on the cabinet to be "arcade friendly" at least. Nobody is going to play an RPG standing or sitting in my garage during a cookout/guys night.

Can't wait till the weather turns warmer so I can get started on my next cabinet. Still scouring CL and Ebay for dedicated cabs of my favorite games, but I'm pretty broke....lol.

[jaywv1981]

I have MAME, Future Pinball and some PC fighting games on mine.  I have all my console-based emulators like SNES, NES etc on my HTPC which I play with gamepads.

[EMDB]

...
P.S.  On a side note, is there a way to have Hypersin skip the wheel selection and jump right into the titles?  In this case, skip MAME and just have the scrolling of the titles. [I know, I know, I shouldn't be asking here]
...

Yes. In HyperHQ you can set mode to Single and select the wheel you want.

[Le Chuck]

It depends on the cab.  I don't mind mixing emulators but I do hate long game lists.  My STUN Runner conversion plays

MAME
STUN Runner
Star Wars
ESB
Afterburner

Supermodel
SW Tril

PC
Hydro Thunder
Star Wars Racer

Dolphin
Mariokart GP2x

N64
Starfox
Jetmoto

Pretty much everything else I've stripped off of it because it doesn't fit with the cab.  It's all on one menu and is seamless for guests.  Tons of parties, kids and adults of all ages playing and I have yet to get a complaint about the game list being small or missing anything.  Usually they just play Star Wars Tril or Markiokart anyway. 

[eds1275]

I put a computer in my home theatre that runs console games using a quartet of wired xbox 360 controllers. It works great, and the controllers are pretty good for every system except n64.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,141605.0.html

[BadMouth]

The problem isn't the number of emulators (unless we're talking about console emulators), it's the volume of crap people keep on their cab because they want to have "everything".

I don't mind having a ton of emulators.  I like having newer stuff like NAOMI shmups and Taito Type X fighters on my cab (as well as Steam games).
What sucks is that all front-ends make you divide them up into different lists because they run on different emulators.

Now that I've experienced having all arcade games in one list, I can never go back.
I don't care if I have to create a separate script or batch file for every last game.

Now I do entertain the thought of having a separate cab for each genre of game because they play better with more specifically suited controls.
(short throw joysticks for shmups, rubber grommet 4-way for classics, ect)

[paigeoliver]

How are you running Star Wars Racer? Is there a new patch or something? Last I checked if you had a video chipset made in the last decade then it wouldn't work.

It depends on the cab.  I don't mind mixing emulators but I do hate long game lists.  My STUN Runner conversion plays

MAME
STUN Runner
Star Wars
ESB
Afterburner

Supermodel
SW Tril

PC
Hydro Thunder
Star Wars Racer

Dolphin
Mariokart GP2x

N64
Starfox
Jetmoto

Pretty much everything else I've stripped off of it because it doesn't fit with the cab.  It's all on one menu and is seamless for guests.  Tons of parties, kids and adults of all ages playing and I have yet to get a complaint about the game list being small or missing anything.  Usually they just play Star Wars Tril or Markiokart anyway.

[jtslade]

If you could boot to favorites in a specific wheel or even lock down a favorites wheel it would help for parties and yet you could still explore all those gems in MAME that you never played back in he day but love now.  Like Wonder Momo .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Richardgregory]

With thousands of MAME titles,  the reality is is that only some are really worthwhile to have on a cab IMO.   I think I'll super trim the list down to the ones that actually existed in the arcade and toss out the others. 

I like the idea of making a separate wheel.  One containing the classics: ie. Pacman, Asteroids, DK, etc, - for company that comes over making it easier for them...... and the rest of the other MAME titles will be in a separate wheel.   I think in Hyperspin that can be done - no? 

[EMDB]

With thousands of MAME titles,  the reality is is that only some are really worthwhile to have on a cab IMO.   I think I'll super trim the list down to the ones that actually existed in the arcade and toss out the others. 

I like the idea of making a separate wheel.  One containing the classics: ie. Pacman, Asteroids, DK, etc, - for company that comes over making it easier for them...... and the rest of the other MAME titles will be in a separate wheel.   I think in Hyperspin that can be done - no?

I have a single wheel containing about a hundred MAME games, some homebrew and a few of my childhood favorite owned Megadrive, SNES, C64, Amiga games. Plus all versions of all consoles/ arcade of my favorite game all times Donkey Kong:

[ark_ader]

Stick everything in there.  More the merrier.  Just make sure you ghost the drive.

[Le Chuck]

How are you running Star Wars Racer? Is there a new patch or something? Last I checked if you had a video chipset made in the last decade then it wouldn't work.

Yep, there was a new patch that came out a few years ago that brought it back to life.  It took me a while to track down.  I think I have it on my portable HD, if so I'll track it down (I'm away from home right meow).  Runs great, I also have the board sets and controllers for arcade version, just need to build a cab, or build it into a cab for it.  Of course, I've had those for about 3 years now and haven't done it but someday. 

[gildahl]

Nah, gotta have my consoles and classic computers.  No issues with clutter here--though I don't use Hyperspin.  I use the cab 80% of the time, so "my" main menu is fairly complex giving me access to everything.  If visitors are over or I'm in a simple-minded mood, I just turn on the simplified menu.  Problem solved.

[thomas_surles]

I started out with everything for the sake of having them, but now have a collection of consoles and everdrives. I have since trimmed out everything I can play from the couch. I have kept a bit of dreamcast stuff because a lot of it is good fighting or shmup games that are more fun a can than on the actual dreamcast.


so mame and dreamcast gets my vote. just don't throw all the titles in there. just the ones that feel right on your setup.

[Fursphere]

I must be the odd man out here.

Having grown up in the 80s, I have fond memories of arcades of the time, AND consoles of the time.  And many consoles afterwards (I never stopped playing games...   doesn't matter what platform they are on).

So I have many system wheels in HyperSpin.  My young children love playing Sonic on Genesis and Mario Bros on Wii.  I know a lot of people have issues with having the "right" controller for the system.  Well, I grew up playing 8 bit Nintendo with an NES Advantage (arcade style controls) - so playing NES games with arcade controls feels right to me. 

I have a lot of guests who play the cabinet and always ask about some game they remember on a random system - and when I can bring it up, they're always excited.   

Forget being a "purist" - just have fun. 

[leapinlew]

I have a lot of guests who play the cabinet and always ask about some game they remember on a random system - and when I can bring it up, they're always excited.   

Forget being a "purist" - just have fun.

For me, it's more "fun" when my guests can figure out how to use a machine without me having to be there. So, cabs are setup for ease of use, not because I'm trying to be a purist.

[jaywv1981]

I have a lot of guests who play the cabinet and always ask about some game they remember on a random system - and when I can bring it up, they're always excited.   

Forget being a "purist" - just have fun.

For me, it's more "fun" when my guests can figure out how to use a machine without me having to be there. So, cabs are setup for ease of use, not because I'm trying to be a purist.

I agree...that is why I went with the LED controls that light up for each game.  It has made it very simple for guests to figure out which controls to use.

[monkeybomb]

I play handheld systems on my psp and I play console games on a television.  I would never add those to my mame cabinet.  But I like having AAE, Daphne, and demul.  I think the main thing is drastically reducing the mame romset.  My full mame set is still at 3000 but it's almost all US versions with very few clones.  Then I added a tag in the FE that I assign to games that I don't want.  It takes about the time as making a favorite and it's off the list.  The set remains around 3000, but once I tag it, it's gone from the front end.

[05SRT4]

OP I am in the same boat also, I started with the idea of every game possible. I have the same Hyperspin setup on my stand up, bartop and cocktail.

Recently my wife had some friends over and I think maybe 3 games were played. There was an hour of silence of just people going through all the games. I actually felt kind of stupid even though everyone was impressed with everything. So now I am going through and changing everything. Stand up will be strictly MAME and I will dedicate some time to making new Genre/favorites lists so its not a huge bulk list. The bartop will have everything and the cocktail will be just MAME with only a small handful of games.

[Lukem23]

Is their an easy way to setup every game to just highlight the led buttons that are used???

[05SRT4]

Is their an easy way to setup every game to just highlight the led buttons that are used???

Not really the best place to post this question. If you need more help search for LEDBlinky or start a new thread requesting some assistants.

LEDBlinky, once setup and configured it will display the LEDS that are actually used in game.

[Fursphere]

Is their an easy way to setup every game to just highlight the led buttons that are used???

No.  Its a boring painful tedious process.   

[keilmillerjr]

I must be the odd man out here.

Having grown up in the 80s, I have fond memories of arcades of the time, AND consoles of the time.  And many consoles afterwards (I never stopped playing games...   doesn't matter what platform they are on).

So I have many system wheels in HyperSpin.  My young children love playing Sonic on Genesis and Mario Bros on Wii.  I know a lot of people have issues with having the "right" controller for the system.  Well, I grew up playing 8 bit Nintendo with an NES Advantage (arcade style controls) - so playing NES games with arcade controls feels right to me. 

I have a lot of guests who play the cabinet and always ask about some game they remember on a random system - and when I can bring it up, they're always excited.   

Forget being a "purist" - just have fun.

I had the nes advantage when I was young. Thought the quality was crap. Traded it in at gamester for like ten cents or something.

I don't understand the want for console games on a cabinet.

[DaveMMR]

I had the nes advantage when I was young. Thought the quality was crap. Traded it in at gamester for like ten cents or something.

I don't understand the want for console games on a cabinet.

Hey, I liked (and still do like) my NES Advantage. I loved playing (certain) games with that thing. 

But I get what you're saying and agree with you. A lot of console games are just better with the controllers. It's much harder to kick back and relax with an arcade stick in your lap...

[Cynicaster]

I guess I’m one of the rare retro gamers who just enjoys the games and doesn’t place much importance on re-creating childhood experiences exactly as I remember them.  I don’t care if my 12 year-old self spent hundreds of hours playing RC Pro Am with a NES d-pad in the 80s… I’m not 12 years old anymore.  In 2016, with my big man hands, I prefer arcade controls.   

Even though I grew up primarily playing the old home consoles, I have completely lost the ability to enjoy playing video games with hand-held controllers, ESPECIALLY ones with d-pads.  Not sure why or how that happened, but that’s where I’m at.  I can use a d-pad for a few minutes at a time, and then I just want to stop playing because of the controller… which is a shame, because there are a lot of fun games on those old systems. 

So, the obvious thing for me to do is to emulate the games on my cabinet and use the arcade controls to play them.  I realize that there are lots of old console games that just don’t work with arcade controls or don’t make any sense on an upright cabinet (“metroidvania” type games, RPGs, etc.)  but if that’s the case then I guess those games are retired to the annals of history for me.     
     
I don’t understand the “clutter” problem people talk about.  MaLa is my frontend, and guests use my cabinet without ever even realizing the console emulators are on there—all they see is MAME.  If they somehow knew that Colecovision was available on there, they’d have to come get me to show them how to access it, because they’re certainly not going to just stumble upon it.   

[yotsuya]

If it works for you, it works for you. I'm sorry, I ran all those consoles in my cabinet, and it was one of the worst experiences I had as far as playability goes. I'm not missing anything by not having Atari, NES and Super Nintendo games on my arcade cabinet. If it works for you, awesome, but I don't recommend it.

[Osirus23]

I had NES and SNES emus on my cab for all of one day I think.

[leapinlew]

I guess I’m one of the rare retro gamers who just enjoys the games and doesn’t place much importance on re-creating childhood experiences exactly as I remember them.  I don’t care if my 12 year-old self spent hundreds of hours playing RC Pro Am with a NES d-pad in the 80s… I’m not 12 years old anymore.  In 2016, with my big man hands, I prefer arcade controls.   

The thing is.... we build arcade cabinets to recreate our gaming memories. If we didn't care about recreating our previous experiences, we'd play with those Jakk controllers directly plugged into the TV.

An arcade game which lasts 15 minutes tops is a different experience than a final fantasy game which requires 100 hours.

[yotsuya]

^^^ Troof.

Has nothing to do with being a purist. It has everything to do with which button do I push again to simulate the right button on the back of the SNES game pad?

I played Star Fox on my cabinet, and that's all it took for me to realize that I need to get the console emulators off my cabinet. I didn't have this grand idea to use USB controllers that I would plug into ports, but the whole USB in Windows issue and things not staying consistent ruined that for me, too. I wasn't about to keep the controllers plugged in all the time and hidden somewhere.

It's an arcade cabinet. Let it do arcade things.

[Fursphere]

There is a Nintendo Playchoice 10 cabinet crying somewhere right now.

 

[monkeybomb]

For the guys going with MAME only, don't you get asked about Dragon's Lair?  Every time I have more than a couple of people, someone asks for it.

[leapinlew]

For the guys going with MAME only, don't you get asked about Dragon's Lair?  Every time I have more than a couple of people, someone asks for it.

Yeah, I think everyone makes an exception for Dragons Lair and Space Ace since those were real arcade games and will play on different emulators.

Don't forget the second part after they ask about Dragons Lair. The part where you wait for the game to load for 30 seconds and it's nowhere near as good as they remember.

I loved space ace as a kid, and it's still semi-enjoyable for me as an adult, but the "Gameplay" is weak. Truth is, the reason anyone wants to play is they think Kimmy and Daphne are hot.

[dekar24k]

I did the exact same thing with the last cab I built. Pure MAME. After all, an arcade cabinet is for arcade games. If I want to play SNES, NES, Genesis etc. I'll play on my PC, or my Galaxy S6, or my Nvidia Shield TV box, or my Surface Pro 4.. With a gamepad.. Lol .. You get the point.

[keilmillerjr]

I had the nes advantage when I was young. Thought the quality was crap. Traded it in at gamester for like ten cents or something.

I don't understand the want for console games on a cabinet.

Hey, I liked (and still do like) my NES Advantage. I loved playing (certain) games with that thing. 

But I get what you're saying and agree with you. A lot of console games are just better with the controllers. It's much harder to kick back and relax with an arcade stick in your lap...

I like the idea of the nes advantage, I just didn't like the quality of the nes advantage. I took mine apart, cleaned the buttons and stick, and was like - these still suck..

[Cynicaster]

The thing is.... we build arcade cabinets to recreate our gaming memories. If we didn't care about recreating our previous experiences, we'd play with those Jakk controllers directly plugged into the TV.

An arcade game which lasts 15 minutes tops is a different experience than a final fantasy game which requires 100 hours.

You shouldn’t be so quick to assume that everybody has the same motivations.

When it comes to arcade games, my cabinet is almost 100% used to play games I never got a chance to play when they were current because I was too young.  So, if I’m playing games that I never played in their heyday, on a homemade cabinet that looks different from the original cabinets, with controls that are different in layout, construction, and feel from the original cabinets, what exactly am I “recreating”? 

What do KLOV types have to say about the "memory re-living" potential of a PC stuffed into a big homemade box that is decorated with arcade-like stuff?  Many of them sneer at the suggestion.  Does that mean we shouldn’t build MAME cabinets?  Of course not. 

The point is, the past does not dictate anything about how, when, or why to use emulation to enjoy old games—unless, of course, you want it to.         

Lots of noobs come to this forum and read threads like this to gather information before starting their own project.  It is valuable input for one to state that console emulation was attempted but not enjoyed on their cabinet, so long as it’s presented as a personal experience and not some kind of universal truth.  Coming up with completely imaginary rules and problems like “game list clutter” and “the controls never map right” and “you can’t stand in front of a cabinet for 100 hours to play an RPG” and “this was not meant to be played with that” is not constructive or useful to anybody coming here to seek information.

[haynor666]

Besides MAME I still have Taito Type X games (those are arcade ones), NES (Nestopia) emulator (I have original console but I prefer nice and clean RGB picture) and handhelds.

[leapinlew]

The thing is.... we build arcade cabinets to recreate our gaming memories. If we didn't care about recreating our previous experiences, we'd play with those Jakk controllers directly plugged into the TV.

An arcade game which lasts 15 minutes tops is a different experience than a final fantasy game which requires 100 hours.

You shouldn’t be so quick to assume that everybody has the same motivations.

When it comes to arcade games, my cabinet is almost 100% used to play games I never got a chance to play when they were current because I was too young.  So, if I’m playing games that I never played in their heyday, on a homemade cabinet that looks different from the original cabinets, with controls that are different in layout, construction, and feel from the original cabinets, what exactly am I “recreating”? 

What do KLOV types have to say about the "memory re-living" potential of a PC stuffed into a big homemade box that is decorated with arcade-like stuff?  Many of them sneer at the suggestion.  Does that mean we shouldn’t build MAME cabinets?  Of course not. 

The point is, the past does not dictate anything about how, when, or why to use emulation to enjoy old games—unless, of course, you want it to.         

Lots of noobs come to this forum and read threads like this to gather information before starting their own project.  It is valuable input for one to state that console emulation was attempted but not enjoyed on their cabinet, so long as it’s presented as a personal experience and not some kind of universal truth.  Coming up with completely imaginary rules and problems like “game list clutter” and “the controls never map right” and “you can’t stand in front of a cabinet for 100 hours to play an RPG” and “this was not meant to be played with that” is not constructive or useful to anybody coming here to seek information.

You shouldn't assume that I assume? Hell, I don't even know what you are talking about.

I don't think I need to preface everything with IMO, because everyone knows it's an opinion. I can tell you this: from the last decade I have been here, what I just described is a sentiment shared by most. Most folks keep arcade games on their cabinet and consoles on the couch.

Maybe my problem is I assume that anyone who reads a post on a public internet forum is smart enough to decipher that when someone posts something, it's supposed to be an opinion and not a fact.

[DrakeTungsten]

The thing is.... we build arcade cabinets to recreate our gaming memories. If we didn't care about recreating our previous experiences, we'd play with those Jakk controllers directly plugged into the TV.

An arcade game which lasts 15 minutes tops is a different experience than a final fantasy game which requires 100 hours.

You shouldn’t be so quick to assume that everybody has the same motivations.

When it comes to arcade games, my cabinet is almost 100% used to play games I never got a chance to play when they were current because I was too young.  So, if I’m playing games that I never played in their heyday, on a homemade cabinet that looks different from the original cabinets, with controls that are different in layout, construction, and feel from the original cabinets, what exactly am I “recreating”? 

What do KLOV types have to say about the "memory re-living" potential of a PC stuffed into a big homemade box that is decorated with arcade-like stuff?  Many of them sneer at the suggestion.  Does that mean we shouldn’t build MAME cabinets?  Of course not. 

The point is, the past does not dictate anything about how, when, or why to use emulation to enjoy old games—unless, of course, you want it to.         

Lots of noobs come to this forum and read threads like this to gather information before starting their own project.  It is valuable input for one to state that console emulation was attempted but not enjoyed on their cabinet, so long as it’s presented as a personal experience and not some kind of universal truth.  Coming up with completely imaginary rules and problems like “game list clutter” and “the controls never map right” and “you can’t stand in front of a cabinet for 100 hours to play an RPG” and “this was not meant to be played with that” is not constructive or useful to anybody coming here to seek information.

You shouldn't assume that I assume? Hell, I don't even know what you are talking about.

I don't think I need to preface everything with IMO, because everyone knows it's an opinion. I can tell you this: from the last decade I have been here, what I just described is a sentiment shared by most. Most folks keep arcade games on their cabinet and consoles on the couch.

Maybe my problem is I assume that anyone who reads a post on a public internet forum is smart enough to decipher that when someone posts something, it's supposed to be an opinion and not a fact.

That last sentence was uncalled for, and neither was it honest. When you talk about an unqualified "we" this and an unqualified "we" that, you don't have much standing to claim the guy responding to you lacks comprehension for saying you're presenting your experience as a universal truth. This fact-vs-opinion framing is just a distraction from Cynicaster's point.

Cynicaster's final paragraph hit the nail on the head.  There's a degree of elitism and arrogance here that is off-putting and confusing to noobs. Unfortunately, the sensible, universally-accepted advice (e.g., orientation of sticks on a 4-player cab) doesn't look much different to a noob from the more subjective but just as authoritatively-presented "console games don't belong on a cab."   

To the OP, if I found myself limiting the number of emulators I use because my front-end handles multiple emulators too clunkily, I would switch front-ends before limiting my game selection so drastically (or at all, really). None of the objections I've seen to console games on a cab matter to me. I'm only interested in more action-oriented console games of the 8-bit and 16-bit era. So memorizing or documenting the controls for these games is hardly ever more difficult than doing the same for arcade games (this has always been a nonsensical objection to me - like consoles never produced arcade-style games).  I don't get too tired playing these games at my cab (my attention span wavers before my body does), and I prefer the immediacy/intimacy of experience the cabinet provides. As for menu navigation, I have about 280 games divided into about 8 genres (game lists). This is quite manageable.

[leapinlew]

Cynicaster's final paragraph hit the nail on the head.  There's a degree of elitism and arrogance here that is off-putting and confusing to noobs. Unfortunately, the sensible, universally-accepted advice (e.g., orientation of sticks on a 4-player cab) doesn't look much different to a noob from the more subjective but just as authoritatively-presented "console games don't belong on a cab."   

Any establishment can seem daunting. Go to KLOV and you'll see how friendly it is here.

"Graduating" from using consoles on an arcade cabinet to just using mame, or paring down the game list to relevant games is the kind of progression many of us have not only lived through, but have seen time and time again. When I see someone posting questions like "Do I want to put every version of Galaga on my system?" to "Should I run 30,000 games that include all the emulators?" I suppose I should keep not only my experiences, but many other members to myself? Maybe you thought I was presenting it as fact, or maybe you didn't like what I said, but take it or leave it, it's the same decision many of us have made.

[leapinlew]

If this hasn't been made perfectly clear - do whatever you want. I don't want to rain on your parade. Just trying to share some experiences.

[CheffoJeffo]

Let's see ... guys getting all pissy about the attitude/elitism/fact/opinion are the same guys who tell you what is "obvious", typecast an entire group and that the problem is non-existent anyway. Pot. Kettle. Black. Same piss that's always been.

FWIW, most of the people who stick around in the hobby (and stay active on the boards) seem to make the progression. Hell, I started at "one machine to rule them all".

There may be many (perhaps even more) people who are happy not making the progression and running any/everything on a single machine. They aren't the ones who stick around. Maybe they are too busy playing all of those games to talk about it. Maybe they aren't interested enough to tell you about it.

Enough with the butthurt outrage over perceived elitism.

Maybe my problem is I assume that anyone who reads a post on a public internet forum is smart enough to decipher that when someone posts something, it's supposed to be an opinion and not a fact.

Lew, everything I post is fact. saint accepts it. So should you.

[Malenko]

Saint said it best, "Cheffo's right"


I think we all started with the "one cab to rule them all" or some variation of it, mine was "1 cab to play all the fighting games!" and now Im working on a vertical bartop made almost exclusively for vertical shooters, a genre I used to hate!

Building and setting up a MAME cab, especially the first time around, is a huge time sink (and usually a money pit as well). Many try to justify that by making the cab play every game under the sun. In time, most people adjust their goals. For some its redoing the control panel and removing the tron stick, flight stick, and trackball. For others its removing the *insert system you never actually play on your cab here* games from their game lists.

My entire process has flipped around. I used to start off with everything and slowly whittle it down to what I wanted. Now I start with almost nothing and add what I want. In the end, the finish line is the same but the journey is more fun for me now.

[ArrogANT]

I recently started my first build and I did start off with the idea of having everything on it, but after a few days of sifting through 1000's of games on systems that I didn't think suited for a stand-up cabinet, I decide to drop a lot of them.

However, I do think older consoles, such as NES, SNES, Master System and Genesis, can be played on a stand-up cabinet. As these sold peripherals back in the day, like the Nintendo Advantage and Sega Arcade Power Stick. Which is essentially an arcade control panel.

I believe it really comes down to if you like and play it, then have it.

[sealcouch]

On my latest cab I went in with a nothing but Mame mindset. Then I played Uniracers on it. That game is absolute gold with arcade controls. Changed my mindset entirely.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[DaveMMR]

On my latest cab I went in with a nothing but Mame mindset. Then I played Uniracers on it. That game is absolute gold with arcade controls. Changed my mindset entirely.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Ha! Uniracers!  I thought I was the only person who spoke of that forgotten racer. (Forgotten because Pixar sued them; game taken off the market after initial run.)   But yeah, it's actually pretty tight with arcade controls.

[leapinlew]

On my latest cab I went in with a nothing but Mame mindset. Then I played Uniracers on it. That game is absolute gold with arcade controls. Changed my mindset entirely.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Just what I would expect to hear from a guy using a cell phone to access a browser. Fact: you aren't supposed to do that? 

[vwalbridge]

Fact: you aren't supposed to do that?

[DrakeTungsten]

Looks like we caught a poster or two up-thread at a time when they're having great difficulty thinking clearly. I hope they get things sorted out.

The one practical difference I've run into between console games and arcade games is that starting an arcade game is always intuitive (not from the front-end, but from the game's attract mode), while it's not always obvious for console games. Many are easy enough, but some of them require an arcane sequence consisting of a mix of the "start" button plus an arbitrary gamepad button.     

[yotsuya]

Cynicaster's final paragraph hit the nail on the head.  There's a degree of elitism and arrogance here that is off-putting and confusing to noobs. Unfortunately, the sensible, universally-accepted advice (e.g., orientation of sticks on a 4-player cab) doesn't look much different to a noob from the more subjective but just as authoritatively-presented "console games don't belong on a cab."   

Any establishment can seem daunting. Go to KLOV and you'll see how friendly it is here.

"Graduating" from using consoles on an arcade cabinet to just using mame, or paring down the game list to relevant games is the kind of progression many of us have not only lived through, but have seen time and time again. When I see someone posting questions like "Do I want to put every version of Galaga on my system?" to "Should I run 30,000 games that include all the emulators?" I suppose I should keep not only my experiences, but many other members to myself? Maybe you thought I was presenting it as fact, or maybe you didn't like what I said, but take it or leave it, it's the same decision many of us have made.

Well said, Lew.

Where do you "you guys are elitist snobs" people think we get our opinions from? We MADE those mistakes ourselves, and we're trying to help others in their process. Sheeh.

[harveybirdman]

Jesus tits here we go with the wisdom shaming again.

Yes by all means build a machine loaded with every console and fill the TB hard drive up with ISOs.  He'll even make USB Jacks and a shelf for all of your original controllers and your super cool Kade Kade Kade Kade Kade Kade Kade Kade Kade* 



*no disrespect to the kade, a fine peice of hardware.

[DrakeTungsten]

Some of you either posted in the wrong thread, or are suffering from hallucinations. You guys are ranting against things that were never said or even suggested.

The OP asked for the pros and cons of having many emulators in an arcade cabinet. It's a shame such a simple thing causes you to retreat into a fantasy world. This is exactly the kind of unhelpfulness I don't envy noobs having to put up with. Take a break from the circle jerk and try to understand simple English that says something other than "You're awsome".

And for the dim-witted who are crying over being called elitists: Rest assured that I, for one, don't think of any of you as elitists (I never did think or say that elitism was rampant anyway). Your current BS has nothing to do with elitism. Your obtuseness has sadly dwarfed whatever other characteristics you may have previously displayed. But by all means, continue to enjoy your persecution as "elitists"

[Cynicaster]

Some of you either posted in the wrong thread, or are suffering from hallucinations. You guys are ranting against things that were never said or even suggested.

Yes, there is obviously a huge difference between the following sentiments: 

"some games from some consoles are fun to play with arcade controls, so therefore I put some games from some consoles on my MAME cabinet."

and

"in addition to MAME, I seek to have 30,000 console games--terabytes worth--and all emulators known to man on my MAME cabinet." 

But don't expect such nuance to be acknowledged if you dare step into the echo chamber and go off-script. 





   

[harveybirdman]

An arcade game which lasts 15 minutes tops is a different experience than a final fantasy game which requires 100 hours.

That's what Lew said to warrant the lecture dude...


I wouldn't exactly portray our side of the argument as the witch hunters here, I mean I get what you are saying and I think you have a decent point but... I think a lot of this comes from previous threads and our smattering of pithy comments.

I think the back if forth is good for Noobs actually, makes them consider different angles, and if they aren't thick skinned enough for some tough feedback I'm not so sure I want them hanging around here anyway.

EDIT, granted the original quote was a counterpoint to you and quoted you so that takes a little off what I said first and Lew could have said "to each his own," I guess....

[yotsuya]

This is why I hate this type of question. Anytime you try to provide honest feedback based on your own experience, somebody has to throw out the "elitist", "snob", or "hater" term. I'm surprised hater hasn't shown up yet.

To all future posters who ask the same question: Do what the ---fudgesicle--- you want. I don't have to play your cabinet, so I really don't give a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- anymore. Smoke a bowl, play Zelda on your Zippy 8-way joysticks, and enjoy yourself.

[CheffoJeffo]

I was ranting against the butthurt posts of Cyni and DT which all seems to stem from Lew's choice of a plural pronoun in a response to Cyni.

So Cyni ran off and decided to make imaginary rules against imaginary rules. 

Then DT decided that we are all comprehensionally-impaired. 

Thing is, those people who ---smurfette--- about mean-spirited elitism are pretty much always mean-spirited about it.

[Hoopz]

Good to be back and see a thread hit the shitter over something so silly.   

[yotsuya]

Good to be back and see a thread hit the shitter over something so silly.   

See what happens when you leave???

[Malenko]

I was ranting against the butthurt posts of Cyni and DT which all seems to stem from Lew's choice of a plural pronoun in a response to Cyni.

So Cyni ran off and decided to make imaginary rules against imaginary rules. 

Then DT decided that we are all comprehensionally-impaired. 

Thing is, those people who ---smurfette--- about mean-spirited elitism are pretty much always mean-spirited about it.

Don't you just love this new and exciting victim culture we live in?

[Cynicaster]

This is why I hate this type of question. Anytime you try to provide honest feedback based on your own experience, somebody has to throw out the "elitist", "snob", or "hater" term. I'm surprised hater hasn't shown up yet.

If, in a question thread like this one, your contribution to the discussion (and I'm not saying you specifically) is to take the comments of those with differing views from your own, respond to them by exaggerating what they say to the most ridiculous degree (30000 games, terabytes, 100 hours playing RPG to name a few in this thread alone), and then proceed to point out why that exaggerated scenario is ridiculous and stupid.... is that what you consider to be "honest feedback based on own experience?"  Or is it just an opportunity to be a sarcastic dick to somebody on the internet?
 

To all future posters who ask the same question: Do what the ---fudgesicle--- you want. I don't have to play your cabinet, so I really don't give a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- anymore. Smoke a bowl, play Zelda on your Zippy 8-way joysticks, and enjoy yourself.

Is this more honest feedback based on experience?  If so, how is Zelda on weed? 

[yotsuya]

Don't know, I don't smoke weed and I don't play NES games on an arcade cabinet. But do what makes you happy.

[harveybirdman]

Or is it just an opportunity to be a sarcastic dick to somebody on the internet?
 

god I hope so, because it's freaking hilarious most of the time.

Don't know, I don't smoke weed and I don't play NES games on an arcade cabinet. But do what makes you happy.

ZapCon just got a little more square   

[yotsuya]

Or is it just an opportunity to be a sarcastic dick to somebody on the internet?
 

One man's fustration is a other man's dick, apparently.

Don't know, I don't smoke weed and I don't play NES games on an arcade cabinet. But do what makes you happy.

ZapCon just got a little more square   

This is gonna be me Monday morning, Tony Bromo...

[harveybirdman]

One man's fustration is a other man's dick, apparently.

Case in point.... 

[Malenko]

If, in a question thread like this one, your contribution to the discussion (and I'm not saying you specifically) is to take the comments of those with differing views from your own, respond to them by exaggerating what they say to the most ridiculous degree (30000 games, terabytes, 100 hours playing RPG to name a few in this thread alone)

I didn't cite those examples so I can respond to them.  If you add up all the emulated games, they exceed 30,000 especially when you consider multiple revisions of a game and multiple regions. As for terabytes, that's super easy to do if you have disk based systems emulated and all the ISOs. The PSX and Saturn libraries will have you exceed 2 terabytes. I mean the fact they sell 4TB drives preloaded with roms on the internet should give you some idea of how much data a full library of everything could take up. Lastly I had *WELL OVER* 100 hours in Chrono Trigger, probably close to that in Final Fantasy 6 aka Final Fantasy 3 and probably 150 in Tales Of Vesperia (new game+ and the grade shop are addictive!). Hell I have over 500 hours in Diablo 3/ROS. So just because you havent experienced it or think its not possible, doesnt mean that it is impossible.

I dont disagree that they are on the high side, but they are not exaggerated.  That being said, I do in fact have a very small sprinkling of console games mixed in with my arcade games, but they really seem to be limited to console only fighting games (Like WeaponLord) or arcadey racers that can be easily played with a joystick (Like RC Pro-Am)

[popsicle]

Trying my best to ignore everything between the first post and this one. 

Although I have a dedicated vertical 4-way machine, my upright horizontal 6-button 8-way cab has MAME, NES, Sega Genesis, Atari 2600, Atari 800, and Playstation One emulators set up. Mame gets a lot of play, but there are also quite a few quick pick up and go games on the consoles that are big hits with visitors and also my kids. Many are 2-player simultaneous games. I try to keep the game list small on each, avoiding games that need instruction manuals, are heavy on the time investment, or have counter-intuitive controls. It does take some time to get the emulators setup properly, but I'm glad I did.

PSX - Twisted Metal 2, Tekken 3, Unholy War, Poy Poy, Tekken 3, Crash Team Racing, and Star Gladiator are favorites with my boys.
NES - Pro Wrestling, Excite Bike, Super Mario 3
Atari 8-bit - Archon, Blue Max, Crossfire, Alley Cat, Seawolf 2, One on One, Matchboxes (favorite of 7-year old twins), Dog Daze Deluxe, Kikstart, Missile Command
Sega Genesis - Zombies Ate My Neighbors, Toe Jam and Earl
Atari 2600 - Fishing Derby, Freeway, Bowling, Frogs n Flies

[DrakeTungsten]

I was ranting against the butthurt posts of Cyni and DT which all seems to stem from Lew's choice of a plural pronoun in a response to Cyni.

Ha, you guys are worried about noobs showing up with thin skins, but if you can't respond without grossly distorting what the other guy said, your own skin is translucent. Cheffo, if you think you're up to learning some basic reading comprehension, I might just hold your hand and walk you through your errors. But be prepared for a swell of embarrassment if understanding ever does dawn on you.

...mean-spirited...

Aw, an honest and reasoned opinion offered with restraint is a little too much for somebody's fee-fees. (Yes, I mock *now*, but geez, I initially treated Lew with more respect than this fool can muster for a differing opinion)

To all future posters who ask the same question: Do what the ---fudgesicle--- you want.

Except, of course, to expect the circle jerk to respond to anything you actually say. But, to your credit, everything else does indeed seem to be cool with you.

Just a helpful note: Standing revealed as a... lesser light, let's say, is not the same thing as being constantly accused of elitism (fun activity: search this page for "elitis" and see who's actually obsessed with the concept). Maybe you guys can get a group discount for therapy.

[yotsuya]

To all future posters who ask the same question: Do what the ---fudgesicle--- you want.

Except, of course, to expect the circle jerk to respond to anything you actually say. But, to your credit, everything else does indeed seem to be cool with you.

Just a helpful note: Standing revealed as a... lesser light, let's say, is not the same thing as being constantly accused of elitism (fun activity: search this page for "elitis" and see who's actually obsessed with the concept). Maybe you guys can get a group discount for therapy.

You sure are obsessed with the term circle jerk. Maybe you and Jim should throw a party. Invite a couple guys over. Sit in a circle, &, well, clearly you know the rest.

Honestly, the three or four games you can play effectively on authentic arcade controls to me don't outweigh the hassle of setting up other emulators. But again, let people do whatever makes them happy. Even though I've gone through it, clearly that kind of feedback isn't welcome. We're back to gold stars and sunshine here.

[yotsuya]

Oh, and remember, all this stems from this question the OP asked. It's not like he had something built already, and then everybody started to ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- on it.

Thoughts?  What do you all have emulated in your cab(s)?

So he was seeking feedback, which he got.

[Alaska]

I'm half in and half out on the MAME dedicated cab. The only reason being is that some of the games I enjoyed playing growing up run a lot smoother in other emulators outside of MAME. I only have about 30-40 games though and am not about getting "everything" and readjusting my XML file every time I want to play.

I will say that putting in the extra effort to get my AracdeVGA card to work with HyperSpin and RL was definitely the way to go. It's a killer frontend.

I haven't explored it much, but it would be nice if there was a way to set it up to be rom only so you don't have to back out of MAME and select other emultors. Some of the emultors I have on my cab only have a game or two on them... and it's a pain in the ass... I think I may be seeing the light

Oh, and remember, all this stems from this question the OP asked. It's not like he had something built already, and then everybody started to ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- on it.

Thoughts?  What do you all have emulated in your cab(s)?

So he was seeking feedback, which he got.

To answer the question. Mame, NES, SNES, and Dreamcast

[eds1275]

y'allsa buncha haters hatin'

[yotsuya]

y'allsa buncha haters hatin'

[leapinlew]

Well, first there was this:

Coming up with completely imaginary rules and problems like “game list clutter” and “the controls never map right” and “you can’t stand in front of a cabinet for 100 hours to play an RPG” and “this was not meant to be played with that” is not constructive or useful to anybody coming here to seek information.

And you emphatically agree with him:

Cynicaster's final paragraph hit the nail on the head.

And then shortly thereafter you say this:

The one practical difference I've run into between console games and arcade games is that starting an arcade game is always intuitive (not from the front-end, but from the game's attract mode), while it's not always obvious for console games. Many are easy enough, but some of them require an arcane sequence consisting of a mix of the "start" button plus an arbitrary gamepad button.     

So he hit it on the head but you have an opinion on controls not mapping properly... this is a completely imaginary rule of yours, right? I mean, how dare you try to offer advice, lol. You better watch it or some jerkwad wannabe will call you an elitist. Seriously Drake, you are coming off like a total pisser in this.

Here is a post where a guy wants advice for a 4 player panel: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,149654.0.html and of course, people are suggesting angling joysticks and amount of buttons. You two better get in there and tell them what snobs they are and that everyone has different opinions.

[CheffoJeffo]

Oh ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- ... now they're talking about the (in)suitability of arcade controls for console games! 

[yotsuya]

Don't worry, I'll advise him to smoke a bowl and play Zelda once the temperature rises....

[Hoopz]

Buying Terabytes of Roms online sounds like an excellent use of the free market system.   

[Richardgregory]

I didn't expect my original post to have generated so much feedback and conflict   

Thanks all for the opinions.  For my own, I'm going to stick with MAME and maybe NES (for Super Mario) and that's it.  Oh, and yes, Daphne for Dragon's Lair.

MAME does have many titles, but a good bulk of them are crappy, so I'll have to filter those titles as well instead of cluttering the menu selections.

[leapinlew]

I didn't expect my original post to have generated so much feedback and conflict   

It happens sometimes. For the most part, it's nothing too serious. At least, I don't take it too serious.

Thanks all for the opinions.  For my own, I'm going to stick with MAME and maybe NES (for Super Mario) and that's it.  Oh, and yes, Daphne for Dragon's Lair.

MAME does have many titles, but a good bulk of them are crappy, so I'll have to filter those titles as well instead of cluttering the menu selections.

Is there some reason you want to play the NES version of Super Mario instead of the arcade version (I think it's called VS. Mario).

As for the clutter, are you using ROMlister to help create a list of titles that work with your controls first? That's my starting point. I create a big list of games that work with my controls and select other desirable criteria.

[EMDB]

Thanks all for the opinions.  For my own, I'm going to stick with MAME and maybe NES (for Super Mario) and that's it.  Oh, and yes, Daphne for Dragon's Lair.

MAME does have many titles, but a good bulk of them are crappy, so I'll have to filter those titles as well instead of cluttering the menu selections.

Is there some reason you want to play the NES version of Super Mario instead of the arcade version (I think it's called VS. Mario).

As for the clutter, are you using ROMlister to help create a list of titles that work with your controls first? That's my starting point. I create a big list of games that work with my controls and select other desirable criteria.

Mario Bros is completely different from Super Mario. Add SNES emulation for really nice Super Mario World versions which look nice and play great with arcade controls

[leapinlew]

Mario Bros is completely different from Super Mario.

Right, I meant vs Super Mario Bros. I don't think there is a VS Mario.

[Cynicaster]

I didn't cite those examples so I can respond to them.  If you add up all the emulated games, they exceed 30,000 especially when you consider multiple revisions of a game and multiple regions. As for terabytes, that's super easy to do if you have disk based systems emulated and all the ISOs. The PSX and Saturn libraries will have you exceed 2 terabytes. I mean the fact they sell 4TB drives preloaded with roms on the internet should give you some idea of how much data a full library of everything could take up. Lastly I had *WELL OVER* 100 hours in Chrono Trigger, probably close to that in Final Fantasy 6 aka Final Fantasy 3 and probably 150 in Tales Of Vesperia (new game+ and the grade shop are addictive!). Hell I have over 500 hours in Diablo 3/ROS. So just because you havent experienced it or think its not possible, doesnt mean that it is impossible.

When I said "exaggerated" I was talking about the extent to which some of us use console emulation being exaggerated.  I don't doubt for a second that there are 2TB of roms our there or RPGs that run for 100 hours. 

I've been saying all along that it's not "all or nothing" with console emulation.  One does not need to "commit" to an unwieldy list of 30,000 games just for the sake of playing the ones they enjoy, that play well with arcade controls. 

Yet, almost every post on here that has railed against console emulation has begun by framing the notion with some ridiculous scenario that not one person has recommended--30,000 games, 100 hour RPGs, smoking pot with Zelda (??)--then proceeded to mock it and rip it down. 

It's interesting that nobody has responded head-on to the specific idea of playing certain 8- and 16-bit era console games and provided a good reason why it would be ill-advised.... presumably, because there is no good reason, and the games inarguably play great with arcade controls.  But clearly, it's deemed terribly uncool to admit this, hence the use of easy-to-mock scenarios that not one person has actually advocated.   

[monkeybomb]

It's interesting that nobody has responded head-on to the specific idea of playing certain 8- and 16-bit era console games and provided a good reason why it would be ill-advised.... presumably, because there is no good reason, and the games inarguably play great with arcade controls.  But clearly, it's deemed terribly uncool to admit this, hence the use of easy-to-mock scenarios that not one person has actually advocated.

People like what they like and fill in reasons after.  The reason not to play is if someone doesn't like it.  The consistent advice from everyone is play whatever way makes you happy.  For many of us that's console games on the couch and arcade games on the arcade.  But some guys actually like getting kicked in the balls, so Zelda on a cabinet isn't that crazy if it floats your boat.

[DrakeTungsten]

Yet, almost every post on here that has railed against console emulation has begun by framing the notion with some ridiculous scenario that not one person has recommended--30,000 games, 100 hour RPGs, smoking pot with Zelda (??)--then proceeded to mock it and rip it down.

There's a fine line between optimism and stubbornness. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't expect rubbing their noses in reality yet again will yield any more results than past attempts.

The topper was when one of them claimed  "We MADE those mistakes ourselves"* So everyone in the circle jerk** built a cab which included console controllers to play an epic-length RPG, only to realize after standing there playing it for hours that it was a bad idea? That most assuredly is not a reason to value their judgment.

It's interesting that nobody has responded head-on to the specific idea of playing certain 8- and 16-bit era console games and provided a good reason why it would be ill-advised

Hey, wait a minute, I have.  "Ill-advised" would be a little strong, but at least, in my second post, I brought up a challenge to playing these games which is in fact unique to console gaming (given that we are discussing otherwise cabinet-friendly console games.) It was a minor challenge to me, but I can see people throwing it in the "con" column for consoles. No disrespect to Cynicaster, but the challenge I mention is described up-thread if you're interested. Repeating it would just create one more opportunity to have a straw man constructed from something I've said. (If the circle-jerkers want to find it, just look for the post where I called you all elitists, recommended a TB worth of isos, and said mothers are notorious free-loaders and glory-hounds)

*Used to be a paraphrase. The original quote works better. Thanks Lew!

** I know, if I only stopped pointing that out, you'd deign to finally be reasonable. That's what's been holding you guys back. Just like saying "I don't think you're elitists" put an end to the "elitist" martyrdom, right?

[yotsuya]

It's interesting that nobody has responded head-on to the specific idea of playing certain 8- and 16-bit era console games and provided a good reason why it would be ill-advised.... presumably, because there is no good reason, and the games inarguably play great with arcade controls.  But clearly, it's deemed terribly uncool to admit this, hence the use of easy-to-mock scenarios that not one person has actually advocated.

People like what they like and fill in reasons after.  The reason not to play is if someone doesn't like it.  The consistent advice from everyone is play whatever way makes you happy.  For many of us that's console games on the couch and arcade games on the arcade.  But some guys actually like getting kicked in the balls, so Zelda on a cabinet isn't that crazy if it floats your boat.

Well said.

I'm consistent with the advice I give. "Based on my experience, your best bet is to limit your arcade cab to MAME." (I would add Daphne as well) That doesn't mean you CAN'T add other emulators, but again, based on my experience, I wouldn't. The problem is people will always point out the two or three SNES games that are playable, but usually the N00b doesn't stop at those 2 or 3, which is where you get the 30000 games. So if someone ASKS, like the OP did, that's why I give the advice that I do.

Oh, and if you don't get the "smoke a bowl" reference, you haven't seen "Analyze This".

[harveybirdman]

I have support for NES, Genesis, Snes, Psx, TurboGraphix16, and PC Engine CD rom all on my MAME setup.  Not to mention I originally intended to have PC, N64, and Dreamcast support.

It's not that some titles don't play well on arcade contols, I concede that I have a blast playing Lords of Thunder, Alleste, Zanac, and more.  On slow machines, Nulldc and Epsxe, are important if you want 3D games to work.

But from a practicality standpoint you have to admit that the majority of all the games on the libraries were intended to be played from the couch  or in the case of the 8 Bit systems derived from a superior arcade version.

What I have experienced and what countless others have mentioned in this thread is that  guests tend to become paralyzed by the sheer volume of choices when it comes to picking a game.

Also it is completely honest when I say that I like countless others began with the notion of one cabinet to play every game I could ever possibly want to play.  Over the years I've found that such a plan is not only impractical but not very pretty either.  I'm certainly not the only one that believes so.

At the end of the day I agree with you, some console games can be and should be enjoyed on Arcade controls, however the vast majority of console libraries may subtract more than they add to a project.

[yotsuya]

Yet, almost every post on here that has railed against console emulation has begun by framing the notion with some ridiculous scenario that not one person has recommended--30,000 games, 100 hour RPGs, smoking pot with Zelda (??)--then proceeded to mock it and rip it down.

There's a fine line between optimism and stubbornness. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't expect rubbing their noses in reality yet again will yield any more results than past attempts.

The topper was when one of them claimed "you should listen to us because we've already made these mistakes ourselves". So everyone in the circle jerk built a cab which included console controllers to play an epic-length RPG, only to realize after standing there playing it for hours that it was a bad idea? That most assuredly is not a reason to value their judgment.

It's interesting that nobody has responded head-on to the specific idea of playing certain 8- and 16-bit era console games and provided a good reason why it would be ill-advised

Hey, wait a minute, I have.  "Ill-advised" would be a little strong, but at least, in my second post, I brought up a challenge to playing these games which is in fact unique to console gaming (given that we are discussing otherwise cabinet-friendly console games.) It was a minor challenge to me, but I can see people throwing it in the "con" column for consoles. No disrespect to Cynicaster, but the challenge is described up-thread if you're interested. Repeating it would just be one more chance to have a straw man constructed from something I've said.

Again with the circle jerk comment. Someone must have had a disappointing Saturday night.

Yes, before you fill a 1 TB hard drive with every game known to man and proclaim it the most awesome retro gaming machine ever, only to watch your disappointed friends walk away from your cab because it didn't play "Goldeneye" in a way that is even remotely fun, you SHOULD listen to people who have made that mistake before. They know what they're talking about. After all, the best advice should come from some semblance of experience. Otherwise, it's just pulling stuff out of your ass.

[leapinlew]

The topper was when one of them claimed "you should listen to us because we've already made these mistakes ourselves".

Fun fact, no one actually said that sentence you put in quotes.  

Yotsuya said: "We MADE those mistakes ourselves, and we're trying to help others in their process."

So, that's a little different I'd say. What exactly is your beef Drake? You mad that we are sharing our experiences and not sprinkling enough YMMV and IMO statements?

[leapinlew]

Nearly everyone has said do whatever you want, or some variant of that. No one has taken a hard line stance that there is only one way to build a cabinet despite efforts to typecast a segment of BYOAC'ers.

Think about where this is being posted. This is an arcade forum. Of course opinions are going to be slanted towards playing arcade games on your arcade cabinet and consoles on the couch. Go to a console forum and it wouldn't surprise me if the opinions there are slanted for using gamepads. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

[DrakeTungsten]

Well, first there was this:

Coming up with completely imaginary rules and problems like “game list clutter” and “the controls never map right” and “you can’t stand in front of a cabinet for 100 hours to play an RPG” and “this was not meant to be played with that” is not constructive or useful to anybody coming here to seek information.

And you emphatically agree with him:

Cynicaster's final paragraph hit the nail on the head.

And then shortly thereafter you say this:

The one practical difference I've run into between console games and arcade games is that starting an arcade game is always intuitive (not from the front-end, but from the game's attract mode), while it's not always obvious for console games. Many are easy enough, but some of them require an arcane sequence consisting of a mix of the "start" button plus an arbitrary gamepad button.     

So he hit it on the head but you have an opinion on controls not mapping properly... this is a completely imaginary rule of yours, right? I mean, how dare you try to offer advice, lol. You better watch it or some jerkwad wannabe will call you an elitist. Seriously Drake, you are coming off like a total pisser in this.

Here is a post where a guy wants advice for a 4 player panel: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,149654.0.html and of course, people are suggesting angling joysticks and amount of buttons. You two better get in there and tell them what snobs they are and that everyone has different opinions.

Wait, this didn't only throw Cheffo for a loop? God help me, I'm going to try to walk you through this...

Cynicaster's first sentence said "rules and problems", right?  So the phrase in question could either mean he was intending to describe one category of things which has some properties of rules and some properties of problems, or the list which followed contained two types of items - "rules" items and "problem" items. Are you with me so far?

Edit: Oh never mind, I just noticed you're still an "elitist" martyr, despite the fact that I said I don't think of anybody here as an elitist. Hopeless.

[Hoopz]

I don't even know what you guys are arguing about at this point.  If anyone needs a specific example, playing Intellivision games via Nostalgia on a cabinet would be awful. The directional pad is a 16-way, 12 buttons on the keypad that are used in particular patterns sometimes (baseball) that wouldn't translate well to bottoms on a Cap, along with the side buttons (4 that were mostly used as tops and bottoms mapped in most games), means that the controls simply don't carry over.

For lesser consoles (Atari ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, Nintendo crap, etc) that had inferior games and basic controls for slower kids purchased by parents who didn't love them as much, maybe it'll work. YMMFV and IMOP.

Queue circle jerk.

[yotsuya]

Queue circle jerk.

We're saving it for Saturday night at ZapCon. DeL's room. Bring gloves.

[CheffoJeffo]

Wait, this didn't only throw Cheffo for a loop? God help me, I'm going to try to walk you through this...

Cynicaster's first sentence said "rules and problems", right?  So the phrase in question could either mean he was intending to describe one category of things which has some properties of rules and some properties of problems, or the list which followed contained two types of items - "rules" items and "problem" items. Are you with me so far?

Edit: Oh never mind, I just noticed you're still an "elitist" martyr, despite the fact that I said I don't think of anybody here as an elitist. Hopeless.

I gotta say, I admire your tenacity and capacity for outrage. Trying to use comprehenionsal ridicule to make your point and to win friends is a bold strategy. I can't wait to see how it works out for you.

Go the extra step and talking about actual language as if it were a programming language? Stroke of genius!

Insult, dismiss and walk away instead of completing your point? It's like a simulated mike drop. Wow.

Thing is, Billy Joel, if you are going to mock people for the way they interpret the written word, you can't lead off with a sentence that doesn't even parse properly.

"only throw Cheffo"

You can do better and you'll have to if you ever want to get out of the slush pile.

[Hoopz]

Queue circle jerk.

We're saving it for Saturday night at ZapCon. DeL's room. Bring gloves.

A good host would provide them.

[yotsuya]

Queue circle jerk.

We're saving it for Saturday night at ZapCon. DeL's room. Bring gloves.

A good host would provide them.

True. I'll make sure they're in the swag bags.

[Hoopz]

Queue circle jerk.

We're saving it for Saturday night at ZapCon. DeL's room. Bring gloves.

A good host would provide them.

True. I'll make sure they're in the swag bags.

+1 rep for you

[DrakeTungsten]

I didn't expect my original post to have generated so much feedback and conflict   

Thanks all for the opinions.  For my own, I'm going to stick with MAME and maybe NES (for Super Mario) and that's it.  Oh, and yes, Daphne for Dragon's Lair.

MAME does have many titles, but a good bulk of them are crappy, so I'll have to filter those titles as well instead of cluttering the menu selections.

Glad to hear you were able to cut through the BS and perhaps found worthwhile advice.

[yotsuya]

Queue circle jerk.

We're saving it for Saturday night at ZapCon. DeL's room. Bring gloves.

A good host would provide them.

True. I'll make sure they're in the swag bags.

+1 rep for you

I'm a man of my word...

[P.H.U.]

When my CRT based MAME cab is finished, I am going to keep it to MAME, Zinc, Daphne, and Dreamcast, just for arcade games. I want to keep it for arcade games because they were all designed for quick entertainment while standing and being social. These games were hugely profitable for game makers and operators all while doing it a quarter at a time. It is a different experience. If I want to play a console game which requires long investments in time, I would rather be on a couch. But that is just me. I have no desire to play 2600, Colecovision, etc because most of the libraries there were just arcade ports.

Part of the problem you mention is that you are using HyperSpin. I love HyperSpin and contribute frequently on their board. But once you have a certain number of systems, it becomes no longer fun. I know a lot of HyperSpin guys that set up systems just because. It is really difficult to get HyperSpin to launch favorites from different systems. Wish Bad Boy Bill would make that easier. Anyways, might want to get a different, more simple FE if you are torn.

[DrakeTungsten]

The consistent advice from everyone is play whatever way makes you happy.

Yes, some folks contribute such fortune cookie advice off that bat, and others will resort to it only after being pressed about the rest of their "advice". Except it's nothing more than a feel-good gesture. It isn't particularly helpful, especially when everything else leading up to it is decidedly unhelpful. A functioning human being doesn't already know to have fun by doing what makes them happy? "Make yourself happy" is what their massive experience ultimately brings to the table? You can just as easily get that from a grandmothers' knitting forum.

Rational person: "What are the pitfalls of playing console games on your cabinet?"
Circle jerk: "They were made for the couch/they're too long/files are too big/various control issues/game lists will be too long".
Rational person: "Thanks, but none of those objections apply to my preferences or the games I intend to run. I'm baffled that none of you experienced sages did not think to address this yet, but what about console games that are arcade-like?"
Circle jerk: "Respect the 'arcade' in 'arcade cabinet'/you're not recreating my childhood".
Rational person: "Huh?"
Circle jerk: "Play what makes you happy."

Yeah, that's not helpful. It wasn't like this when I first started visiting this site.
 

[yotsuya]

The consistent advice from everyone is play whatever way makes you happy.

If you press them, then yes, you usually end up with this. While it's a feel-good gesture, it isn't particularly helpful, especially when everything else is decidedly unhelpful.

Noob: "What are the pitfalls of playing console games on your cabinet?"
Circle jerk: "They were made for the couch/they're too long/files are too big (an odd complaint in 2016)/various control issues".
Noob: "What about the cabinet-friendly 8-bit and 16-bit games?"
Circle jerk: "Respect the 'arcade' in 'arcade cabinet'/you're not recreating my childhood".
Noob: "Huh?"
Circle jerk: "Play what makes you happy."

Yeah, that's not helpful.

"Play whatever makes you happy", quite frankly, is a reaction that is kind of akin to "You're not listening to me, so do whatever the hell you want, I don't care anymore."

Only in this case, the OP is fine with our advice, it's just you and your fascination with circle jerks that's not.

[leapinlew]

The consistent advice from everyone is play whatever way makes you happy.

If you press them, then yes, you usually end up with this. While it's a feel-good gesture, it isn't particularly helpful, especially when everything else is decidedly unhelpful.

Noob: "What are the pitfalls of playing console games on your cabinet?"
Circle jerk: "They were made for the couch/they're too long/files are too big (an odd complaint in 2016)/various control issues".
Noob: "What about the cabinet-friendly 8-bit and 16-bit games?"
Circle jerk: "Respect the 'arcade' in 'arcade cabinet'/you're not recreating my childhood".
Noob: "Huh?"
Circle jerk: "Play what makes you happy."

Yeah, that's not helpful.

I guess you read what you want. So... how was your comment helpful... at all... to anyone... anywhere? Just inflammatory trollish behavior.

Also, this wasn't a n00b asking for advice on the pitfalls of playing console games on his arcade cabinet. It was someone who asked for other peoples thoughts after he had decided that running all the emulators on his machine was too much. At that point, many of us commented how we also traveled down the same path. If I were to recreate the conversation, it looks like this:

MAME guy: "I have found too many emulators on my cabinet is a pain, what do you think?"
Team SuperHappyFunTime: "Totally agree. I built a cab to rule them on when I first started and learned they were made for the couch/they're too long/files are too big/various control issues".
Team IDoItMyWay: "HEY NOT EVERYONE DOES EVERYTHING THE SAME WAY. YOU GUYS ARE MEAN CIRCLEJERKS!!!"
Team SuperHappyFunTime: "Do whatever you want. We are just sharing experiences we've had and seen many others have"
Team IDoItMyWay: "CIRCLEJERKS!!! YOU JUST WANT PEOPLE TO ONLY DO THINGS YOUR WAY. YOU GUYS HAVE POOR READING COMPREHENSION AND ARE MEAN. ALSO, YOU ARE MEAN."
See, it's easy if you just make up a conversation in your head. ;P

To any noob who reads this. First, I'm sorry, lol. Second, if you want proof this place isn't full of the kind of people and attitudes DrakeTungsten is talking about, go look in project announcements where people are actually building things. How many people are getting roasted for going their own way? Practically none. This is a great community, but we do get a few DrakeTungsten types from time to time. He should get off it and give it a chance.

[yotsuya]

Kinda fitting...

[CheffoJeffo]

To any noob who reads this. First, I'm sorry, lol. Second, if you want proof this place isn't full of the kind of people and attitudes DrakeTungsten is talking about, go look in project announcements where people are actually building things. How many people are getting roasted for going their own way? Practically none. This is a great community, but we do get a few DrakeTungsten types from time to time. He should get off it and give it a chance.

This.

DT has been running off his personal characterizations of people, demonizing and insulting them, spouting "circle jerk! circle jerk! circle jerk!" without any reasonable clue who those people are or even what they are saying. He seems to be fixed and firm in his belief that they aren't helpful. He's wrong and he's being a dick. ---fudgesicle--- that.

[Le Chuck]

Whatever you build - whatever the control scheme - whatever the monitor orientation - one thing will make sure it's successful at your next get together.  ONE THING. 



Make sure it can play Boonga Boonga. 

[Cynicaster]

I actually started out as MAME only; in fact, if I searched back on this site, I could probably find at least one post from me advising somebody that console emulators on the cabinet are a waste of time.  But, I changed my tune somewhat as I observed how things played out over time.   

Of all my extended family and friends, very few of them appreciate retro video games like me.  What I found over the years was that most people visiting my house and going “wow, cool!” at my MAME cabinet make no distinction between “arcade games” and “console games.”  To them, they’re all just old video games, somehow brought back to life as if by magic, on this big machine I built.  They don’t know what emulators are, what ROMs are, etc.

“Do you have that Ice Hockey game where you get to pick the fat, skinny, or medium guys?”
“Do you have Mario Kart?”
“Load up that one fighting game we used to play… what’s it called… Streets of Rage!”
“Do you have Miner 2049er?”
“Do you have Enduro?”

I’d have to explain, “nah, sorry, this thing only plays arcade games.”  I could always tell they didn’t really get what I meant by that.  After all, I probably just finished explaining to them that there is a PC inside the cabinet… so what’s this about arcade games again? 

Finally, I decided to load up an NES emulator due to the preponderance of requests for NES games.  The next time somebody asked for Super Mario 3, I was ready.  And I realized it wasn’t all that bad; I’d get playing some of the games with friends and end up enjoying it.  So, I added a few more emulators for consoles I personally had (Atari 2600, Atari 7800, Genesis).  I tried some others, and ended up deleting them because they didn’t work very well with the controls (Atari 5200 comes to mind, I’ve still got INTV on there but probably not for much longer).

I remember playing Robotron X on the original Playstation, but when playing on the actual console you’d have to use the stupid d-pad for movement and the face buttons to shoot.  Now I’ve got that game running on my cabinet with twin sticks… pretty damn cool; vastly superior to even the “real” experience of the original hardware. 

So, MY advice to noobs reading this thread is this: don’t spend a thousand hours laboriously loading up every emulator and rom you can find, “just because”.  That’s a recipe for burning yourself out.  But, if you think of something from your past that you want to play with arcade controls (8- and 16-bit era shooters and beat-em-ups are great choices, as are SOME platform games), or if you just want to explore some old games on different platforms out of curiosity, there’s no harm in giving it a whirl on your cabinet.  Some of them are great fun, others not so much.  Keep the ones you like, ditch the ones you don’t. 

[yotsuya]

I actually started out as MAME only; in fact, if I searched back on this site, I could probably find at least one post from me advising somebody that console emulators on the cabinet are a waste of time.  But, I changed my tune somewhat as I observed how things played out over time.   

Of all my extended family and friends, very few of them appreciate retro video games like me.  What I found over the years was that most people visiting my house and going “wow, cool!” at my MAME cabinet make no distinction between “arcade games” and “console games.”  To them, they’re all just old video games, somehow brought back to life as if by magic, on this big machine I built.  They don’t know what emulators are, what ROMs are, etc.

“Do you have that Ice Hockey game where you get to pick the fat, skinny, or medium guys?”
“Do you have Mario Kart?”
“Load up that one fighting game we used to play… what’s it called… Streets of Rage!”
“Do you have Miner 2049er?”
“Do you have Enduro?”

I’d have to explain, “nah, sorry, this thing only plays arcade games.”  I could always tell they didn’t really get what I meant by that.  After all, I probably just finished explaining to them that there is a PC inside the cabinet… so what’s this about arcade games again? 

Finally, I decided to load up an NES emulator due to the preponderance of requests for NES games.  The next time somebody asked for Super Mario 3, I was ready.  And I realized it wasn’t all that bad; I’d get playing some of the games with friends and end up enjoying it.  So, I added a few more emulators for consoles I personally had (Atari 2600, Atari 7800, Genesis).  I tried some others, and ended up deleting them because they didn’t work very well with the controls (Atari 5200 comes to mind, I’ve still got INTV on there but probably not for much longer).

I remember playing Robotron X on the original Playstation, but when playing on the actual console you’d have to use the stupid d-pad for movement and the face buttons to shoot.  Now I’ve got that game running on my cabinet with twin sticks… pretty damn cool; vastly superior to even the “real” experience of the original hardware. 

So, MY advice to noobs reading this thread is this: don’t spend a thousand hours laboriously loading up every emulator and rom you can find, “just because”.  That’s a recipe for burning yourself out.  But, if you think of something from your past that you want to play with arcade controls (8- and 16-bit era shooters and beat-em-ups are great choices, as are SOME platform games), or if you just want to explore some old games on different platforms out of curiosity, there’s no harm in giving it a whirl on your cabinet.  Some of them are great fun, others not so much.  Keep the ones you like, ditch the ones you don’t.

I think that is both very fair and well said. Good for you.