Control Panel Thoughts

[EssexMame]

For several years now I have had a started and abandoned cabinet build project:http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,129647.msg1326389.html#msg1326389

Whatever I try, I don't find the time, skill, or priority (not always mine!), or whatever it is I am missing to make progress with it. I have the equipment (new router and circular saw, sawboard, the wood, screws, drill bits, arcade controls, light guns, steering wheel, monitors, PCs etc etc) but I spend the time doing what I'm able - the Mala/Mame/PC side and changing/rechanging and not making any actual cabinet progress. I don't even really play the games as I generally only have keyboard (though I have played on PS2 controllers for a bit). I also have a baby due in September so I want to get something built/done before I lose more of my own time.

Therefore, I think I need an interim step. Something that will use the equipment and controls I have accumulated but is also a smaller first step from a woodworking perspective - a working control panel. It will allow me to play the games and indeed some I'm convinced I NEED (from rose-tinted memories) may drop (or raise) in priority which will give me a better idea of what i want/need on the final cabinet design.

My plan is that it will be the size for the cabinet I have started (28" x 11") and I can use it now with some wooden sides yet later detach and fit it into the cabinet sides in the same way. I have 2x joysticks, a trackball, and would also like to use analogue stick (Black Widow) and steering wheel (Logitech G25) both of which I'd detach when not in use so the panel isn't cluttered and the trackball/joysticks are accessible.

To do this I think the wheel would clamp onto a lip on the front of the panel via the tabletop clamps and can be removed when not in use.
(I have an aimtrak gun too, plan to have a second, which would wire in from the front/side as I will also do on the actual cab)

Has anyone gone about their project this way with the control panel first? How did it go? I'm particularly interested in any projects that have a removable PC analogue stick and wheel and how this was achieved, particularly the stick. Perhaps an indented section on the lip/bottom of the control panel that can be replaced with an insert when not in use? Or simply stick/sit it on the panel just like it was a table would be simpler/easier? I'm trying to cover the games I play which cover a range and deciding what I want therefore becomes complicated. I want to avoid a frankenpanel and (for now) a complicated modular panel design. I'm aware of the risk of it being playable before the full cab is built too but to be honest if I've got something I'm happy playing and that's stopping me building I'd be more than happy. I'd LOVE a cab. I WILL build one, but......

I've attached a rough sketch of what is in my mind so you can understand what I'm meaning.

[Dawgz Rule]

I can't speak for the stick but I use a G27 wheel and it clamps onto the lip of the CP as does the shifter.    Seems to work fine.

[mgb]

My first build was simply a control panel. I basically based it on the slickstik controllers that were out at the time and my plan was to simply attach it to a cabinet like how many 4 player controllers are done.
It worked out well but for the longest time I kept changing my mind and direction on the cabinet and it was about 5 years before I had it bolted on a big ugly arcade cab in my basement.
It worked well but I really wanted something nicer upstairs in my house and made my next build which is what I have today.

I think one thing that helps to get a project like this done is to just really make the hard decision of exactly what games and functions are most important. Make your plans off that and go for it.

[EssexMame]

I think one thing that helps to get a project like this done is to just really make the hard decision of exactly what games and functions are most important. Make your plans off that and go for it.

Thanks, I hear you, but that's where my problem regarding the control panel has always been. This is a selection of my "must have" games list. These are probably the top ones in fact......

Out Run (wheel 270 ...and moving cab!)
Afterburner (analogue ...and moving cockpit!)
Enduro Racer (handlebars ...and wheelie bike!)
Arkanoid (spinner)
Golden Tee (trackball)
Ivan Stewarts Super Off Road (360 wheel, x3 would be great)
Operation Wolf (Guns)
1943 (8 way)
Pac Man (4 way)
Galaga (2 way)
Ikari Warriors (rotational joystick)
Gauntlet (4 player ideally)
...

Quite a combination of controls (not to mention monitor orientation) I'm sure you'll agree - I've probably got them all covered! No coincidence I'm sure - I was attracted to each unique and interesting cabinets and controls in the 80's and that is what I was then playing. Hell, that's why they were all designed like that isn't it - to get an 8-18 year olds pocket money above all others.

Now, I do realise that Afterburner (for instance) might not be played that much once completed/tired of it as my memories are of the expensive hydraulic cabinet in short-but-enjoyable bursts in seaside arcades. Therefore making these games playable now on a control panel (with analogue stick) might help me make that decision and realise without the flip-over flight sim cabinet it isn't that great. What is nostalga/memories and which have replay value now - I think I need a (better) way to play them now and take it from there... With the knowledge that it will help form the full cabinet before too long.

[EssexMame]

Had some further thoughts. This is my "really, really, want" games list. I've managed to be ruthless and cut it down to 30 games. Of course, I'd add others (if I've the Gun, then would add Point Blank which I love, if I have the wheel, Chase HQ etc.) but these are those I want without question.

1943,Afterburner,Arkanoid, Defender,Donkey Kong,Double Dragon,Flying Shark, Frogger,Gauntlet,Golden Axe,Golden Tee 2000, Hyper Sports, Ikari Warriors, Kick and Run, Mikie, Mortal Kombat II, Operation Wolf, Robocop, R-Type, Space Invaders, Street Fighter II, Track & Field, Thunderblade, Enduro Racer, Paperboy, Out Run, Ivan Stewarts, Star Wars, Punch Out

That is:
Horizontal (22) and Vertical (
8-way (10); 2/4 way (
Wheel 270 (1), Wheel 360 (1), Handlebar (2), Gun (1)
Rotary (1), Trackball (1), Spinner (1), Analogue/Yoke (3)

Think I've got all of the control methods covered haven't I !! I know you can play some of these with the other controls and setups (rotary onto buttons etc.) but it does highlight my dilemmas :-) It would also be easy to say "only 1 trackball game, so give it up" but although that is one "must have" game others such as Marble Madness or Missile Command were ruthlessly cut and I'd love to have them if the Control Panel design makes it possible.

[Dawgz Rule]

A rotating display and swappable panel could do it for you if you are willing to add the complexity.   Otherwise, I would recommend compromise and focus on what can be accomplished with fewer controls.  If you can cover 90% of what you want with a few controls, that is a good start.  Space permitting, you can always build a another cab (that is what I am doing) to accommodate another genre. 

[EssexMame]

A rotating display and swappable panel could do it for you if you are willing to add the complexity.   Otherwise, I would recommend compromise and focus on what can be accomplished with fewer controls.  If you can cover 90% of what you want with a few controls, that is a good start.  Space permitting, you can always build a another cab (that is what I am doing) to accommodate another genre.

A rotating display, a modular control panel and a driving cabinet are all desirables but for the first one, with my woodworking "skills" I need to keep it simple. I think this control panel would be a good first step whilst allowing me to play and see if I want to include the games I think I do at the moment. I was going to do a 4/8 way and 6 button 2 player panel but figure I can add the clamp on wheel/gear and sucker stick on analogue stick in some way to it. The trackball I also have and will include. You may be right though, perhaps I need to build a simple one, then a simple cabinet and then move onto the more complex stuff. This does both though - a simple panel I will use but a way to also use the wheel and analogue stick. The wheel will work easier on the lip - the flight stick perhaps less so (it's pretty big!)

[yotsuya]

Just a clarification - Black Widow uses dual joysticks, not an analogue stick. 

[dkersten]

Go with U360's and a trackball and you can play just about everything.  Add a spinner and with software you can add the 270 and 360 wheel games.  Overall though you have to compromise.. your "must have" list includes every possible control, so you are the person on HGTV with the $200k budget wanting a 4 million dollar mansion and insist that even the infinity pool is a "must have"..  Take a few steps back down here to reality and then figure out what you really "must have"...

If I were you, I would get your software together first.  Wire up a basic controller (or buy a tankstick) and play for a while.  The "nostalgia" factor will go away after you have played some of these a few times.  Gauntlet was awesome in it's day, but when you have unlimited quarters, even playing with 4 people gets old after about 2 hours and you never go back.  The same goes for a lot of games you always wanted to play all the way through but could never afford to do it.. once you have unlimited credits they aren't as fun.  This is why games like Galaga and Donkey Kong end up being the ones people build cabs for - doesn't matter how many quarters you have, you can't buy your way to a high score so the challenge is still there.

Play the games, see what you really want NOW, and build for that.  Forget about the fancy tilting cabs and unique controls, unless you buy and restore you will never recapture that experience.  Get your cab together and play it and if you still really want to play afterburner with full hydraulics, start saving your money and figure out where you can fit it... Just like everything else in life, you can't start with the luxuries, you need to get the staples down first..

[mgb]

Well put dkerston,

I totally agree on the gauntlet thing.
And to me, after burner just didn't hold up well in play value over the years

[EssexMame]

Just a clarification - Black Widow uses dual joysticks, not an analogue stick. 

"Black Widow" is the name of the analogue stick (Logitech - with a throttle), not the arcade game.

[yotsuya]

Just a clarification - Black Widow uses dual joysticks, not an analogue stick. 

"Black Widow" is the name of the analogue stick (Logitech - with a throttle), not the arcade game.

Aahhhhhhhhhh!!! Heh. Carry on!

[EssexMame]

Go with U360's and a trackball and you can play just about everything.  Add a spinner and with software you can add the 270 and 360 wheel games.  Overall though you have to compromise.. your "must have" list includes every possible control, so you are the person on HGTV with the $200k budget wanting a 4 million dollar mansion and insist that even the infinity pool is a "must have"..  Take a few steps back down here to reality and then figure out what you really "must have"...

If I were you, I would get your software together first.  Wire up a basic controller (or buy a tankstick) and play for a while.  The "nostalgia" factor will go away after you have played some of these a few times.  Gauntlet was awesome in it's day, but when you have unlimited quarters, even playing with 4 people gets old after about 2 hours and you never go back.  The same goes for a lot of games you always wanted to play all the way through but could never afford to do it.. once you have unlimited credits they aren't as fun.  This is why games like Galaga and Donkey Kong end up being the ones people build cabs for - doesn't matter how many quarters you have, you can't buy your way to a high score so the challenge is still there.

Play the games, see what you really want NOW, and build for that.  Forget about the fancy tilting cabs and unique controls, unless you buy and restore you will never recapture that experience.  Get your cab together and play it and if you still really want to play afterburner with full hydraulics, start saving your money and figure out where you can fit it... Just like everything else in life, you can't start with the luxuries, you need to get the staples down first..

Agree on a lot of what you're saying. My "must have" list I know I will need to make compromises but those were my top 30 games. The varied controls are probably as that is what attracted me to it. I also already think Afterburner won't be a keeper but I'd like to set up a control panel to play them all and determine that for sure (as you're suggesting, but with a part of my build and the controls I have now accumulated going towards it) I know I won't have the full cabinet and that is a big factor. It is a shame with the unlimited continues. I remember Bad Dudes and trying really hard to get to level 3 or 4 yet on constant continue it was easy and not satisfying at all. It's like fruit machine simulators - I never understand the appeal as there is no risk involved.

That's why I started this thread though - thoughts on the building of a working control panel ahead of the cabinet and the pros and cons of that, alongside the bolt-on wheel and analogue stick ideas. THEN I can use it to play-test and determine what I want/need/dream of for later.

[Dawgz Rule]

You can cover a lot of turf with two joysticks, trackball, and spinner.  Another option for joysticks is the Happ rotary stick if you want to play Ikari Warriors.  You would end up giving up a true 4-way but that might be OK for you.  A lot of 4-way games play fine with an 8-way (depending on the stick).  Many gun style games can also be played with the trackball and I have found that many of my guests actually prefer the latter. 

I actually wired up my coin door to accept quarters and I found this really does help with trying to keep the arcade feel.  I do the same with my pins as well.  Sure, I keep a jar of quarters nearby but it still seems to make a difference.  I just had a bunch of people over for Memorial Day and the consensus of the crowd was they seemed to like feeding quarters as well.

Although I had a base list of games I definitely wanted, I had spent a good amount of time deployed in the late 80's and 90's.  Because of that, I was completely unaware of a lot of great games.  To remedy that, I literally loaded a full ROM set and simply started playing.   Anything that didn't meet muster was dumped, which included games that simply didn't translate well outside of the arcade.  Afterburner came off pretty quickly as it just wasn't a good fit with my cabinet and controls.  I couldn't give you an exact count of what is left but it is definitely a fraction of what I originally installed and something over 100.    That list will get reduced further once I complete my vertical cab and move a chunk of games over there.

[EssexMame]

That is good advice - 2 joysticks, trackball and a spinner (probably 2 joysticks and a trackball initially). I'll have the analogue, wheel and 1 aimtrak I have handy but maybe just to play from a table rather than on the control panel (though I'll measure/check anyway). I have a 4/8 way magstik+ so 4-way are covered (though not a great joystick from reviews I've seen but does cover both bases).

That then means I'm setup to play properly, not just the 5 minute blasts with keyboard and PS2 controller I've done thus far. That will give me a good idea of what I really want. It'll also help sort the button layouts and so on as well as some woodwork practice. Alas, even from those 5 minute blasts I've had I was suspecting as much with Afterburner. Bad Dudes, Space Invaders and Gauntlet too (though hoping 2 player might save that!). Oddly, though I preferred Bad Dudes to Rolling Thunder at their time, I find Rolling Thunder very playable and Bad Dudes less so. Perhaps Rolling Thunder is more difficult, more of a challenge, which as a kid I would baulk at but now it appeals to the patient (!) adult me. Odd that one (and the newer one too) seems to have aged so much more despite their similar-ish game play...

Good idea on the quarters too (or 10p's in my language  )- maybe a delay/needing to sort one out is enough over just bashing a different button... Maybe I could have just 10 available, then when all are gone, you can't continue even if you wanted to...

I will also look to a second (and third?) cab for vertical/cocktail and driving etc. but as its taken a couple of years to get this far its not going to be soon!! I'd love a room/garage full of them but the missus might not be so keen!

[Dawgz Rule]

I play Gauntlet and Space Invaders all the time.  These are some of my favorites.  I play Bad Dudes from time to time.  Also love Rolling Thunder.  Remember, you can change the difficulty on most games to suit your tastes.  Also, from a coin perspective, sure you can drop coin after coin to continue play, but Gauntlet in particular high scores on a per coin basis.  This adds some challenge if you are looking to achieve a high score.