Help With Control Panel Design. Feedback Please!

[dheck]

Hey guys,  this is my first control panel and I wanted to reach out to the more experienced to get some feedback.  Basically it is a 4 player cabinet.  8 ways for the 4 players and a separate area with a spinner and a dedicated 4 way.  Do you think this design will work?  Do you see any glaring problems?  For old school 4 way games do I need anymore than three buttons?

[ChanceKJ]

Each to their own, but I'd axe the buttons below the trackball.  Trust me on that.

[ChanceKJ]

...also, this thread may be about to blow up with a ton of subjective advice mixed with actual best practices. Take all with a grain of salt.

[yotsuya]

Looks like you know what you want. Good luck.

[mgb]

I agree on ditching the buttons below the trackball.
Also, have you tried things out on a template.
I could be wrong but the buttons on players 1 and 2 look kinda close to the stick.
And I wonder if the 4-way will be uncomfortable in that placement, or if it should be more centered.

[dheck]

I agree on ditching the buttons below the trackball.
Also, have you tried things out on a template.
I could be wrong but the buttons on players 1 and 2 look kinda close to the stick.
And I wonder if the 4-way will be uncomfortable in that placement, or if it should be more centered.

Thank you for the feedback.  I did try a template and made some adjustments to the design you see above.  Good call on the trackball buttons.  They are for mouse control.  I can relocate the buttons to be on the front facing base of the panel. 

Is there a common measurement for stick placement in relationship to the buttons?

I moved the 4 way off center as to avoid contact with aggressive trackball users.  I am thinking of putting the panel at an angle to also help with this.     

[horizon]

This may help you with alignment and spacing:

http://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/layout.html

[BadMouth]

Do you see any glaring problems?

Can't tell which direction is UP on the P3 & 4 joysticks.
Search the forum for "angled joysticks"
Most common mistake on 4 player panels due to lots of bad examples online.

I'd also reconsider having the trackball buttons there.
Most people just use P1's button, but if you play a lot of golden tee it's nice to have dedicated and labeled buttons.

For old school 4 way games do I need anymore than three buttons?

The only ones in MAME that use 4 buttons are the couple Dungeons and Dragons game.  All the rest use 3 or less.
You could always map a combination to the 4th button in D&D, but I kind of like the look of the design with 4.

Guilty Gear Izuka which is emulated in Demul uses 5 buttons, but it's one game....and not as good as the other games in the Guilty Gear series.


I have a 7 button layout on my cab because I wanted the Neo Geo "four in a row", but I've come to find that I prefer to use the top row and my thumb on the first button of the second row for the "D" button.  It just feels more comfortable.  The extra button can come in handy on some PC fighting games (steam) if you plan on playing those.
If I had it to do over again, I'd probably either just go with 6.....or up it to 8 to cover all the xbox360 fightpad buttons.

[Saneless]

Is the spinner for tempest? You may want a button on left side of that upper joystick then.

As far as mouse buttons go, i just mapped the 7th button on p1 and 2 to be the LR mouse. No need to have additional buttons and theyre so rarely used it's not a big deal to remap them in games that use them.

[mgb]

Is the spinner for tempest? You may want a button on left side of that upper joystick then.

As far as mouse buttons go, i just mapped the 7th button on p1 and 2 to be the LR mouse. No need to have additional buttons and theyre so rarely used it's not a big deal to remap them in games that use them.

Agreed

[zallax]

If you do move the spinner to the left side of the 4-way, make sure it is far enough left that your arm is not on top of P1 8-way joystick.

[Malenko]

not going to have the aircraft carrier debate anymore.

Mock it up in cardboard first.

[lamprey]

To reiterate what others have said mock it up. That having been said, the "upper" 4-way/Spinner/Button section seems kinda cramped to me. If feel good to you, then rock it!

[yotsuya]

not going to have the aircraft carrier debate anymore.

Mock it up in cardboard first.

[dkersten]

At the very least, print it full scale and set it up on a piece of wood at the height and angle you want, then pretend to use the controls.  You want to make sure you can comfortably use them all without interfering with others.  The mouse buttons below the ball will get hit during gameplay, and if using them as a mouse to make modifications or tweak something in your FE, they will be uncomfortable.  The buttons above the trackball will likely get hit if you play golden tee or shuuz or shuffleshot, so keep that in mind.  Spinner too could get hit, and just touching it in a trackball game will send your controls violently to one side. 

[Green Giant]

What sticks are you planning on using for 1 & 2?  Thought about using the servo stik and eliminating the dedicated 4-way.
If so you could also eliminate the 4-way buttons and share the spinner and trackball buttons.

[dheck]

What sticks are you planning on using for 1 & 2?  Thought about using the servo stik and eliminating the dedicated 4-way.
If so you could also eliminate the 4-way buttons and share the spinner and trackball buttons.

I bought the joysticks several years ago.  I believe they are from Happs  Super something or other?  I do not see them on the website anymore.  I also thought about going with the magic stick plus to get 4/8 way controls and eliminate the need for a dedicated 4 way.  If I did that does anyone have any suggestions on where to place the spinner?

[cnsf]

Axe the trackball buttons, I never use them and consider that wasted space.  Consider a 45 degree 4-way for Q*bert and Congo Bongo.  I'd also put in flipper buttons on the sides of the panel that wire into the same IPAC connections as the main buttons for P1.

[cnsf]

Also, consider a Pause button in the upper left corner (which can also double as a shift button) and put a End button in the upper right corner.  I use Pause to Pause, Pause-End to End a game (so you don't hit a button by accident).

[tomstewdevine]

If i were you, I wouldn't try to fit all that stuff on one machine.

[paigeoliver]

Here you go, more functional, half the space and less confusing. You can thank me later when it works.

[dheck]

Here you go, more functional, half the space and less confusing. You can thank me later when it works.

Love it!  I may cut this out and see how it feels.  I cut out my last revision and didn't like the feel.  This looks like it will work much better.

You seem confident in this design.  Do you have experience with it personally? 

[paigeoliver]

I never built that exact panel but I have built the front part before and I have owned a Gauntlet which has the side wings like that. The panel will work fine. Sharing the button banks is way more playable than putting the 4-way and spinner back off in never never land.

[dmckean]

I would just change the P2 joystick to something 4/8-way switchable to clean things up even further.

[Jakobud]

Personally, on account of both comfort and practicality I would get rid of:

1. The buttons below the trackball. They are positioned poorly (just imagine one hand having to reach under the hand that is using the trackball) and instead just have the buttons for Player 1 or 2 double for the trackball games that require buttons.

2. Get rid of the dedicated 4 way. I know some people love dedicated 4 ways but I would personally rather just use a 4/8 way convertible stick (Like the Ultimarc Servo Stick) for Player 1. Also you have to reach over all the other controls to even reach the dedicated 4 way. That doesn't seem like it would be comfortable.

Also keep in mind that having the outside 2 joysticks angled will make it really weird and awkward to play games like Smash TV or Total Carnage.

[dmckean]

Also keep in mind that having the outside 2 joysticks angled will make it really weird and awkward to play games like Smash TV or Total Carnage.

The choice is always between making things more awkward for TMNT/Simpsons/Gautlet/etc.. or being able to play Smash TV and Total Carnage. It's really all about preference and what you like to play. I know I would personally drop the 4 way, spinner and trackball entirely and put all that stuff on a dedicated vertical cab but I know not everyone wants more than one cab.

[Jakobud]

The choice is always between making things more awkward for TMNT/Simpsons/Gautlet/etc.. or being able to play Smash TV and Total Carnage. It's really all about preference and what you like to play. I know I would personally drop the 4 way, spinner and trackball entirely and put all that stuff on a dedicated vertical cab but I know not everyone wants more than one cab.

I hear ya, but keep in mind that TMNT, Simpsons and Gauntlet did not have their joysticks rotated at an angle either. Their buttons were in odd positions (because of the limited space) but the joysticks were always angled the same as the rest of the joysticks. It's definitely a personal matter of which games matter the most to you and space/comfort vs playability.

[Saneless]

Here you go, more functional, half the space and less confusing. You can thank me later when it works.

Love it!  I may cut this out and see how it feels.  I cut out my last revision and didn't like the feel.  This looks like it will work much better.

You seem confident in this design.  Do you have experience with it personally?

Wait, I took that design to be completely sarcastic. It's not?

[mgb]

I don't know.
I agree it works for gauntlet but this still a little different.
It looks pretty bad and the 4 way and spinner would have to go.

As far as loosing playability on some games, that's just part of it.
Not every game is gonna play perfect on every panel

[Jakobud]

One thing I learned many years ago, don't put both a spinner AND trackball on a CP unless you are REALLY into Spinner games. You will soon realize that you can simply roll the trackball left and right to play Spinner games. I probably won't bother even putting on a spinner ever again since I discovered this. But for some people they HAVE to have a spinner. I'm just not one of them.

Make sure you consider stuff like this before trying to cram EVERY SINGLE type of control on your CP.

[Malenko]

and I think the other way, I'd rather have a spinner cause I dont like centipede but I LOVE arkanoid :p

However, for "most games playable with fewest amount of controls" I can totally see dropping the spinner in favor of playing spinner games with a trackball. 

[dkersten]

On the other hand, spinners take up almost zero real estate, and I posted a thread on recessing it and making a shaft extension that slipped on so you can pull the knob and have only a half inch diameter hole left on your cp (you could use a simple plastic plug to cover it when not in use).  It's all personal preference though.

[Jakobud]

On the other hand, spinners take up almost zero real estate, and I posted a thread on recessing it and making a shaft extension that slipped on so you can pull the knob and have only a half inch diameter hole left on your cp (you could use a simple plastic plug to cover it when not in use).  It's all personal preference though.

Yeah quality trackballs definitely take up a lot more space. Definitely a consideration.

[stigzler]

It needs some mahjong buttons:



Slap them on and you'll have a nice compact, bijou machine.

[dmckean]

It needs some mahjong buttons:



Slap them on and you'll have a nice compact, bijou machine.

Considering how many hundreds of Mojong roms there are in mame, you really are limiting yourself if you don't include them on your panel.

[ChanceKJ]

Considering how many hundreds of Mojong roms there are in mame, you really are limiting yourself if you don't include them on your panel.

I whole heartedly approve this statement.