Building a barstool cabinet, here is my setup and am I going to have issues?

[screamingtiger]

Let me say first I have been looking at buidling a mame or NEO GEO for over 11 years.  Back then, a CRT and full cab was the norm and I never liked the idea of that much weight to move around.  With the cheap and very light LCD these days a barstool setup is the way to go and sold me.    I have a couple kids and they are old enough to play so now I can "justify it" for the kids right?

I plan to mostly emulate arcades up to the late 90s  and maybe the WII for smash bros brawl if it wil work.

I have the cabinet woodworking about 75% done.  I will get some pics posted.

I should of got on her sooner so lets see if I can save some time from what you guys already learned.

-I used 1/2" 3 ply birch plywood.  I am concerned if it will take T molding.  It also is hard to get the warp out.  But it is LIGHT and strong.  No glue required.
-I bought lighted LED buttons and zippy controls from Ebay.  They look like the same as monster arcade sells.    Here is what I bougt: http://www.ebay.com/itm/221426369507?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

I am hoping they are not a cheaper knockoff.  There is a 14 day guarantee so if they suck I will send them back.

Here is the specs of the PC I am using, its is almost 5 years old now:
Motherboard Gigabyte AM3
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128419

Power Supply 600 W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341017

Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150369

CPU Athlon II 2.9 ghz tricore, overclocked to 3.2 for years
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103724

Ram 4 GB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231276

I plan to get a new 1 TB STAT III hard drive and install win 64.  I am a big linux fan but it looks like the MAME is best on windows these days due to the front ends (Hyperspin)

[Generic Eric]

I'd get more ram.  The video card won't matter much for MAME, but will help with other things.  Look up the user Haze and read all of his posts.  You will learn about how MAME utilizes hardware.  Also compile the 64bit version of newest MAME for extra gains.

I'd get more RAM since that board you linked can support 16GB. 

You are going to have fun once that is put together! 

[screamingtiger]

I'll look into the ram, if I remember correctly is has that dual channel thing going on, so I have to find two 8 gb chips.  If I add additional chips in the other two slots I lose that speed advantage.  I will look into the hardware usage maybe it wont matter.

I am trying to secure win 64 now but I currently have win 32, so it may not matter anyways!

I ran mame on a P5 233mmx back in 1998.  I actually still have that computer and considered using it in my mame cabinet.  But things have changed!

[Generic Eric]

I'll look into the ram, if I remember correctly is has that dual channel thing going on, so I have to find two 8 gb chips.  If I add additional chips in the other two slots I lose that speed advantage.  I will look into the hardware usage maybe it wont matter.

I am trying to secure win 64 now but I currently have win 32, so it may not matter anyways!

I ran mame on a P5 233mmx back in 1998.  I actually still have that computer and considered using it in my mame cabinet.  But things have changed!

Or 2 4GB sticks. 

[screamingtiger]

Coming Along.  I have win 7 64bit on it but I may convert to linux if I can find a front end I like. 

[PL1]

What functions will you assign to the four yellow admin buttons? (Pause, Exit, the often risky Menu button, etc.)

I assume that the buttons on the front are for P1/P2 Coin, right?

Have you decided what FE and emulators you want to run and installed/configured them so you can confirm which admin buttons are actually needed to make everything work the way you want?


Scott

[screamingtiger]

I am not thinking any of this through and it is totally on the fly.   I mentioned I wanted to this over 10 years ago and suddenly last week, out of no where just took it on.  I cant explain why now. 

I have the XI MO encoder and I am not even sure how many buttons that can handle,  I currently have 22 buttons.  I would like to add 2 more for flippers.  though I did see this cool machine just for pinnball that was pretty sweet, it had a horizontal and vertical monitor!  I thought it was totally dumb at first until I seen it in action and realized how auwsome it is.  If I decide to do that I will omit the flippers.

The front buttons are coin buttons.  The 4 yellow will be:
Exit
Pause
Save State
Load State

I want to play through some old NES games and I use save and load alot, so I wanted dedicated buttons for that.  I just assumed MAME can assign those functions to a button.

Thinking this through now, 22 buttons and 16 total for the two 8 way for the controllers, that is 38 functions.  How many does the XI MO have? May need another one perhaps?

Please if you feel I am going to run into road blocks let me know, this is not well thought out 

[Malenko]

if you are limited on inputs, you can just wire the pinball buttons in parallel with another button , so hitting either will work. IE player 1 button 1 can double as the left flipper and player 2 button 1 can double as the right flipper.

[screamingtiger]

Thats a really good idea.  I am bit confused by the XIN MO description, it says
http://www.monsterarcades.com/#!xin-mo-enoder/c1nw5

"   This simple controller is recognized by Windows as a plug and play controller.  Get 30 inputs (2 Joysticks with 8 each and 22 buttons)..."

22 buttons and two 8 way joysticks is 38 needed inputs.  If it were 1 joystick and 22 buttons that would be 30 inputs.   what the heck? 

[Malenko]

an 8 way stick is only 4 inputs (up down left and right) it will just hit 2 inputs at once for diagonals. "2 joysticks with 8 each" is just worded poorly. It should say "(2) 8way joysticks and 22 buttons"

[JDFan]

an 8 way stick is only 4 inputs (up down left and right) it will just hit 2 inputs at once for diagonals. "2 joysticks with 8 each" is just worded poorly. It should say "(2) 8way joysticks and 22 buttons"

This -- Also with some creative wiring you can also set up a few of the admin buttons to use impossible inputs like Joy1 Up and Joy1 Down simultaneously, or joy1 left and right -- which can not happen during gameplay to get a few more buttons if needed. (same as shown in this Diagram from the Kade encoder ) Explained in this Article under Extended mappings ( https://sites.google.com/site/degenatrons/controller-interfaces/usb-keyboard-encoder/resources)

[Yenome]

I dont see the need in more than 4gb ram in a mame system unless you gonna be running some other emulators. I use just bout the same system specs as you. i use hyperspin FE and it works fine. and any 64bit os gives a speed boost in mame compared to the 32 bit version.

*edit* i too use the xin mo encoder got mine from GGG. if i recall right one side has 12 inputs and the other has 10 far as just buttons go.

[PL1]

Before you go too much further, you might want to run through this part of the FAQ to make sure you're on target and haven't overlooked any important considerations.

See here to figure out the number of inputs needed.

At a glance, looks like:
  8 - 2 joysticks
14 - Player buttons
  8 - Coins/Starts/Pause/Exit/Load/Save
----
30 inputs

Which just happens to match the number of inputs on a 2P Xin-Mo.   


Piggy-back the flippers and plunger/ball launch like Malenko suggests -- search for my posts containing "MagnaSave" for more details on wiring pinball flippers "backward" as shown below. (The "impossible" keypress combos that JDFan mentioned only send unique outputs with the KADE Extended Mode firmware, not with Xin-Mo.  Improved Extended Mode diagram and description here.)



PROTIP: Don't use normal microswitch pushbuttons for flippers. (too much hysteresis)  Goldleafs are much better. I've also heard lots of good things about the GGG Class-X with True-Leaf Pro, but haven't picked up any to confirm those claims/observations yet.

Before you choose which gamepad buttons to use for the flippers, load Future Pinball and check the defaults for the Pinball Wizard controller -- many tables are designed to be compatible with that controller.   


Scott

[PL1]

Found the list of Future Pinball/Pinball Wizard defaults. (trimmed and sorted list)

Digital Plunger - Button 1
Right Flipper - Button 2
Right 2nd Flipper - Button 3
Pause - Button 7
Exit Table - Button 8
Start Game - Button 9
Left Flipper - Button 10
Left 2nd Flipper - Button 11
Insert Coin 1 - Button 12

This should cover pretty much everything except nudging with minimal (if any) table script editing.

I mention this because MAME is much more user-friendly when it comes to configuration.


Scott

[IAmDotorg]

The front buttons are coin buttons.  The 4 yellow will be:
Exit
Pause
Save State
Load State

Depending on the front end you use, you may not even need those. I'm using HyperSpin and enabled HyperPause. I have just a single "admin" button -- pause. The HyperPause screen comes up, and from there I can save/load/exit/etc. I prefer it for two reasons -- less buttons on the CP, and its harder to hit something by mistake and quit a game.

Although I like HyperSpin for a lot of reasons, HyperLaunch and HyperPause are the two big reasons I went with it.

[screamingtiger]

Lots of good information here and great ideas for extra inputs for the XIN MO.  I didnt realize it combines inputs like that.
I hope all my adming buttons work out, being able to press save state and load state quickly are really something I want.  I use it a lot for NES because I suck!

Hey PL1, I am confused by the hysteresis comment.  I bought normal pushbuttons and I hope they work out because a lot of the games I want to play are button mashers.   Does that mean I am going to have issues if I need to press the button real fast like for beat'em ups?

[PL1]

Hysteresis is more noticeable on flipper buttons than player buttons IMHO.

You shouldn't have a problem since most of those games originally used microswitches.

Good news:  If you don't like those player buttons, replacement buttons are fairly cheap.   


Scott

[screamingtiger]

Ran into my first issue yesterday.  My control panel is like a "box top" where it sits on top of the sides  like the lid to a box.  It is flush all around.
I wanted to hinge it with a piano hinge inside (hidden) but realized I cant do that with that geometry.   tried it a few ways, the only way would be to use some sort of funky spring hinge.  As the panel swings open, it has to rotate up on its corner therefore stretching the hinge.  The only way to use it would be to have a gap when it is closed.

So I decided once I get it wired and working I probably wont have to go in there very often.  So I screwed it down.
wierd how simple things end up being so hard to visualize sometimes.

There are some options for me to have the front of the control panel rotate at is bottom (the part with coin buttons) but I dont really like that.

[dkersten]

Euro style hinges allow for "overlay".  They might seem daunting if you haven't used them before, but they are actually pretty simple.  You just have to pick the right hinge for the job.  If your material is 3/4" and your top overlays the sides so they are flush, then you need a "full overlay" or "3/4" overlay" hinge.  The hinge will pull the top away from the side enough to swing open and still be a hidden hinge.  And they are 3 way adjustable so you can dial it in to exactly where you want things to line up, just in case you drill your holes slightly off.

[screamingtiger]

I was going to use those little cabinet latches, the ones withthe little wheels on them that hold the door in place when closed.  With those, and the euro hinges will the panel be secure and tight or will it want to move around.  The piano hinge I was going to use was part of the structure.  I want the panel tight so it is not too noise when banging on the buttons.

Thanks for the info, I may go check out the hinges.  I needed to get the panel secure so I can move on to the bezel to mount the LCD.  I spent way too much time on the hinge 

 

Euro style hinges allow for "overlay".  They might seem daunting if you haven't used them before, but they are actually pretty simple.  You just have to pick the right hinge for the job.  If your material is 3/4" and your top overlays the sides so they are flush, then you need a "full overlay" or "3/4" overlay" hinge.  The hinge will pull the top away from the side enough to swing open and still be a hidden hinge.  And they are 3 way adjustable so you can dial it in to exactly where you want things to line up, just in case you drill your holes slightly off.

[Yenome]

I was going to use those little cabinet latches, the ones withthe little wheels on them that hold the door in place when closed.  With those, and the euro hinges will the panel be secure and tight or will it want to move around.  The piano hinge I was going to use was part of the structure.  I want the panel tight so it is not too noise when banging on the buttons.

If those lil latches always seemed to hold up in kitchen cabinet applications. I have even come across some that was hard to open. As I have seen CP attach with velco that don't move during hard gaming im sure those latches would be just fine long as you get them installed right. and by that I mean with the least room for movement once they lock on. that way they wont wiggle