quality control

[dkersten]

Last night was a bummer in so many ways.  First I went to install the longer shafts for my P3 and P4 sticks to match the P1 and P2 length and found I was sent the wrong shafts.  I verified this morning that it was their mistake, not mine, which is something of a relief as I thought maybe I ordered the wrong part. 

Then I was playing track and field and one of my buttons stuck!  I pulled it all apart and there isn't any burrs or anything in there, it is just a poor design and it is sticking.  I cleaned it and tweaked the spring a little to take up any slack, reinstalled and sure enough 3 minutes later it was stuck down again.  Between this and the fact that the switches are so loose that they can simply fall out sometimes, I am just not impressed with the quality.  But I have over $7 each into them now (electric ice II with RGB Drive 2 LED's) and replacing over $200 in buttons after only 3 weeks is not an option, so I will have to pull it apart again and maybe take some fine grit sandpaper to the edges and then use a little oil or something to keep it from jamming closed again..

At my first big party since the cab was finished, the top mounted restrictors on the U360's came out while my guests were playing - twice.  I like the idea of them, but in practice they aren't very "bulletproof"..

It is discouraging when things start failing this early.. Most if it is just working out the bugs and learning what things to avoid in the future, but most of this stuff has been out for years now, and the dealers are respected in the hobby, so I tend to expect better quality.

I DO have to give GGG credit for having great customer service.  I originally ordered my LED's set up for their controller, and when I figured out they had a special option to work better with other controllers, they were able to work out a deal with me to get them cross shipped.  And Andy at Ultimarc has been awesome in helping out with issues with the ipac uio.. Plus it turned out that I got stuff from London to Montana faster than I did from vendors in the states.  Impressive.

[thomas_surles]

Ugh I know the feeling. The first time I showed off my cab to people it seemed like everything was going wrong.  I had buttons configured wrong or emulators not setup properly. My usb ports on the front shorted out. And my wife broke the joystick playing zookeeper to aggressively.

[SavannahLion]

Don't use oil. It's not good for plastics. Check the "track" the button slides in, the part that prevents the button from popping out, as I had one that was warped ever so slightly. Just enough that when a bit of dirt gets in there it gets stuck.

If you feel you MUST use lubricant, use the type specifically made for plastics. I bought a small tube at Radio Shack and it's lasted me ten years. Doesn't take much to do the trick. The only draw back is you'll need to clean it once in a while because the dirt will get caught in the grease.

I can't help you with the rest as I haven't experienced the problems you describe

[EMDB]

The (new) U360 octagonal restrictors are rock solid:

 

[PL1]

Then I was playing track and field and one of my buttons stuck!  I pulled it all apart and there isn't any burrs or anything in there, it is just a poor design and it is sticking.

One trick for sticky buttons is to pull out the plunger and turn it 180 degrees or swap plungers between buttons.

Sometimes one part is at the very upper end of the tolerance range and the other is at the very lower end of the tolerance range -- by turning/swapping the parts you may improve the fit.   


Scott

[pbj]

Or spin it around in some sandpaper.

[dkersten]

I think I will try taking it apart again and sanding the parts with some 320 to polish them up a little.. If anything, I will use some dry silicone spray for lubrication, or some molybdenum lube or something like that.. When I was a teen I was into RC cars and used a lot of that stuff for lubing plastic parts..  If that doesn't work I can always replace one (I have one spare on hand) or try swapping internals with other switches..

I really wanted to be able to swap from 4 way restrictors to 8 way without having to get to the underside of the CP, and it came down to a choice between the servostik and the u360 with the top mount restrictors.  Overall I like the top mount restrictors, they just don't handle abuse really well.  As I play I just am already in the habit of pushing them back into place between rounds, and they have not popped out on me yet, but they came out twice on my guests during fairly normal play, so I question if I would ever use them again.  I suppose I COULD pull the restrictors out and use a dust washer to cover the larger hole and then just install a bottom mount restrictor.. But I think on 4 way games it does help to have the 4 way restrictor.  I don't know.  I still love the idea of the servostiks, but I question how reliable they are too.. the restrictors on my j-stiks are so freakin hard to turn by hand, I can't imagine a servo having an easy time with the transition.  After the quality control issues I have seen so far, I am hesitant to use them for anything but an experimental situation.

I honestly thought that I would have more need for the analog control of the u360, but so far I have not found one game I care to play that would use it, outside of console emulators, and in those cases I didn't go with enough buttons anyway, and in the end running a modern console game on this just seems out of place.  I DO like how well it works in q-bert though.. what a difference. after trying to play on an 8 way, lol..

[EMDB]

I think I will try taking it apart again and sanding the parts with some 320 to polish them up a little.. If anything, I will use some dry silicone spray for lubrication, or some molybdenum lube or something like that.. When I was a teen I was into RC cars and used a lot of that stuff for lubing plastic parts..  If that doesn't work I can always replace one (I have one spare on hand) or try swapping internals with other switches..

I really wanted to be able to swap from 4 way restrictors to 8 way without having to get to the underside of the CP, and it came down to a choice between the servostik and the u360 with the top mount restrictors.  Overall I like the top mount restrictors, they just don't handle abuse really well.  As I play I just am already in the habit of pushing them back into place between rounds, and they have not popped out on me yet, but they came out twice on my guests during fairly normal play, so I question if I would ever use them again.  I suppose I COULD pull the restrictors out and use a dust washer to cover the larger hole and then just install a bottom mount restrictor.. But I think on 4 way games it does help to have the 4 way restrictor.  I don't know.  I still love the idea of the servostiks, but I question how reliable they are too.. the restrictors on my j-stiks are so freakin hard to turn by hand, I can't imagine a servo having an easy time with the transition.  After the quality control issues I have seen so far, I am hesitant to use them for anything but an experimental situation.

I honestly thought that I would have more need for the analog control of the u360, but so far I have not found one game I care to play that would use it, outside of console emulators, and in those cases I didn't go with enough buttons anyway, and in the end running a modern console game on this just seems out of place.  I DO like how well it works in q-bert though.. what a difference. after trying to play on an 8 way, lol..

You should really try the octagonal restrictor with 4/8/diagonal mappings. The mappings are there to not have to swap restrictors in the first place...

[WindDrake]

White lithium grease is also plastic safe.

[RandyT]

First, I'd like to point out that we weren't vendor the OP was referring to which shipped incorrect parts.  We triple check orders to make sure that kind of thing doesn't happen.

When I designed this button style, one of the things I really disliked about what was available, was the sloppy plunger action.  So the tolerances are a bit tighter on the EI2 design.  Of course, due to the fact that the EI2's, as well as other transparent buttons, are not made from nylon material (they can't be and still do what they do) the surfaces of the material interact a little differently, and do wear a bit.

Also, not all switches have the same thickness (ex. E-Switch= .409", Zippy=.399", etc...)  As the material is less flexible, if the area was too tight, the thicker switches would be difficult to install, and may splay the legs enough so that the lighting PCB would not be retained.  The thinner ones should never fall out, though, so I'm not sure of the conditions which could be causing this to occur.  If there is stress on the wiring, or use of heavy gauge wire with stiff insulation, it could be enough stress to cause the thinner switches to wiggle out when being used.  If the leg which holds the switch was bent out a bit when the switch was installed, it could be retaining that shape (see below).  Another possibility could be that the lighting PCB isn't seated fully and splaying the switch holder legs just enough to cause the issue.

But there are a few things you can do with the EI2 buttons if the need should ever arise.   Just give the parts a good squeeze, and it will retain the shape and tighten the spacing.  The material is pretty much unbreakable, so no concerns there.  The same can be done with the upper inside of the plunger to loosen the fit a bit, and optionally, a little silicone spray won't hurt anything either if so desired.  You shouldn't see any issues after that.

And there is one other very important note:  plastics, some more than other, shrink and expand with moisture levels (humidity) and temperature, so it's important to make sure that there is a bit of breathing room around the buttons, and that the nuts aren't tighter than they need to be.  This is true for any button.  I'm sure it's not the issue in this case, but I have seen folks who have put buttons into holes which were virtually a press fit, and have had similar issues.  Just something for new builders to be conscious of, especially when designing a panel to be CNC cut.

As usual, I am always available to help with trouble shooting and to suggest ways to solve issues, so an email to tech support is usually all that's needed to get things working properly if one gets stumped along the way.


*edit*

I just checked out your build photos (very nice, BTW) and I can pretty confidently state that the switch issue is very likely being caused by the wiring used.  With wire of that heavy size and type (x2), it's going to be very difficult to retain it in such a way as to relieve the tension on the switches.

[dkersten]

I'm sorry I didn't make that more clear Randy, indeed you were NOT the vendor who mis-shipped the shafts.  I used 4 different vendors for my build, and didn't really want to pick on anyone in particular as most vendors I dealt with were truly a pleasure to work with, you included.  I figured if I was talking specifics about the buttons though that sooner or later someone would ask me what kind of button I used, and I am a little jaded about the buttons to begin with because the universal design of the switch mount fought me from the start (clearance issues) so my frustration with these was doubled when the button started sticking. 

In the same breath, I have no problem pointing out again that when I discovered you had an LED that would work better with my controller, you graciously cross shipped the replacements and allowed me, on faith, to get the first ones back to you at my convenience.  Customer service is just as important to me, if not more so, than the product, and for the most part the product is working, and this made a great impression on me and I will definitely do business with you again in the future. 

Overall, as a first time buyer of this kind of product, I was fairly disappointed.  When you really think about it, you can't expect much from a $3 part, lol.  So I will just have to spend a little time tweaking the button to see if I can get better results.  Worst case scenario, I have a spare I can use if I can't get this one to stop sticking.

The switches, for the most part, stay in place, but the looseness of them gives them a "feel" of lower quality.  But I installed them, which stretches the mount legs out a little, then wired, which does the same when pushing the terminals on, then removed the switches for the LED boards to be installed, then reinstalled switches, and in some cases had to do this 2 or 3 more times while routing wires and making other adjustments, and those are the ones that would fall right out again.  I have done exactly what you said and pinched the legs back together to hold things more firmly, and while the switches haven't fallen out since, the perfectionist in me also felt the need to add a small shim to hold a couple of them more tightly.   Also, I DID go with the basic cheaper switch, and it might be slightly narrower than the more expensive switches, and I can understand how you might have to leave tolerance for various switches to be used..

I don't think there is anyone here who will spend a lot of time and money building something and not get frustrated when a part fails on them.  In my case I got hit with a few things at once, and while none were related and none were really major, the frustration built up to the point where I wanted to vent, and what better place to vent than here.   

[SavannahLion]

Sure, we all get frustrated with our cabs. Some of us just have a higher tolerance (more experience? patience?) than others I guess. I watched parts get lost,  never to be found. I've burned myself on the soldering iron. Burned myself with the hot glue gun. Cracked a flyback in a monitor and enjoy a very interesting light show. Ruined more than one paint job. And my all time favorite, dropped a cab off the back of my truck.... Oooops.

I'm not making your experience any less. I'm just saying that in the end, you have a beautiful cab that's 99% working. That's more than what 90% of the population has and oh... 50% here? I dunno. More than what I have.. apparently my cabs become nothing more than expensive scratching posts....

I wish my biggest problem are my buttons.

Wait... that doesn't sound right...