10 years thinking about, now I'm going to build it...

[withalligators]

Hey folks,
I've long wanted to build an arcade cab, but I'm a biologist and work seasonally.  This means I move around every 6 months or so, so I've limited my possessions to whatever fits in my truck.  Well, I just busted my knee at work so I'm laid off for a while.  I'm not far from my parents house, so I've been posting up there, and I'm going to build it and just leave it until I settle down or whatever. 

I've never done this before, so PLEASE point out any problems you see! You guys know better than I for sure!

It's based around a Pioneer PDP-V402, which is a pretty unique 640x480 (4:3) plasma monitor.  It's also has a 40" display(!). It was one of the first consumer available plasmas offered, and fetched something like 10K when it first came out.  I got two of them in a video conferencing unit made by tandberg.  Once you have them dialed in, and they are given a fix scaled image, they look pretty fantastic. 

The brain is an i5-4670k, on a Gigabyte Z97 board, with 8Gbs of ram (though I'll probably up it to 16 so I can design the sideart on it), a 120GB SSD, and as much RAIDed storage as I need (which I don't think will be too much).

Here are some renders of the form, and general palette I'll be using.  The side art, marquee, and panel art are all placeholder, but along the lines of what I'll design.  The model is built almost fully, including structural framing inside.  As you'll see, I really like saturated colors.  I also like the red and black shtick, with the clashing neon green t-molding, button surrounds, and ball tops. 

The CP is 4 player, with 4 buttons each on the 3 and 4 outside positions.  I'll probably use Seimitsu LS32s for these, as they are good for four player beatemups (right?). The 1st and 2nd players are 8 buttons, and I'm thinking U360s with restrictor plates because of their versatility and positive reviews (yes, no?). Each position has an associated "start" button to enter the game.  I'm planning on rigging the coin box to either accept real coins, or the return coin buttons to act as a coin insertion.  The 1 and 2 player buttons also have a second blue button to act as a pause button, or select button for console games.  It is on the outside of the two so the 3rd or 4th player can use it to pause the game if their appendix is exploding or something.  All this will be connected with a Kade.

Lastly, I've included two spinners here, because they didn't add too much clutter, and I could play Forgotten Worlds by resting my arm on the shoot button, using the joystick to move my guy, and aim with the spinner.  Also, for other spinner games.  Does anyone see any major problems or conflicts with any super fun games I might be eliminating with this setup?

I'm considering making the panel interchangeable in case I ever wanted to build a trackball or flying yoke thing, or whatever. 

I'd like to get transparent neon green button surrounds and light them, but have unlit opaque buttons.  I'd also like to light my balltops.  Has this been done with 360s? 

OK, on to the pictures!  I have a pic of the unit, and and the panel, and then the same ones but with the lights off.  Hope you guys likey.



Here's the panel:


Here's the cab in a dark room:


And I've just noticed the player 2 joystick ball is illuminated, but not emitting light in the renders.  Weird.


Here's the big catch.  In order to play vertical tate games of any resolution, I really need to rotate this sucker.  It weighs about 80 pounds, and is about 45.5" corner to corner.  And I can't even mount directly to the nice flat back because this thing needs to breathe.  Any suggestions? 

Also, I'm in upper Westchester county, NY.  Anyone local?

Cheers,
Alex

[withalligators]

Also, here's an earlier version I made with curves on the front that compliment the back.  I ended up not liking it, but it's worth seeing.

[Slippyblade]

You make me weep, truly.  Your "placeholder" art is head and shoulders above my "worked on it for hours and hours" art.

Good luck on the build.  Rotating that beast is gonna be a challenge!

[withalligators]

Thanks.  To be honest, it's placeholder, but I did spend a lot of time on it, thinking about the palette, and re-familiarizing myself with GIMP.  Like, several hours each.  Enough to piss off my GF.  Boy, does she not know what I'm about to get into.

[pbj]

What's a biologist?

[PL1]

Two questions come to mind:

1. Isn't that screen WAY too close for comfort?  A 40" at arms-length seems rather overwhelming.   

2. Given the size of the monitor, do you really need to physically rotate it to get a large enough display area?  Consider using bezels from Mr.Do's site to fill in the empty space. (BONUS: They may also reduce the playfield to a more manageable size if you decide to not move the monitor further away)   

What's a biologist?

He's like the guys that tagged and released you back into your natural habitat.  jk   


Scott

[withalligators]

A biologist is like a giant baby, but we cry more and still never get our way.

About the size, I had worried about that, but after simulating the distance, it seems fine.  Any getting-used-to-it period was brief.  I also set up a projector at about 14 feet from sitting that throws a 150" picture in 1080.  It seemed too big at first, but I got used to it quickly and now loev how big it is. 

Yes, that's what she said (but definitely not to me).

If I don't rotate, I can't play any shooters with a horizontal resolution of greater than 480.  Doesn't this eliminate a ton of awesome naomi/DC games?  They're sort of the reason I have this monster PC in there.

Cheers,
Alex

[jaharr01]

+ 1 to bezels I have me do's bezels they look awesome. I not sure that is correct about the non vertical monitor. I have a 32 mine isn't t like that. The only advantage to rotating would be your monitor would be taller. That's a heck of a lot of engineering to rotate a 40 inch plasma. If ur set on rotating go  buy a 1080 thin 32 inch. The amount of time and work would be enormous to get a heavy 40 screen to rotate.but that is up to you
Jay

[withalligators]

This thing only has a resolution of 640x480.  So any later shooters that play in tate mode at 480(wide)x640(tall) wouldn't display.  Unless it was rotated.  Then it would display pixel perfect. 

People have rotated big heavy CRTs.  This can't be that much heavier.  I saw reference to pillow axle block something something rotation, but can't seem to find the appropriate thread.  Anyone know this off hand?

Cheers,
Alex

[rablack97]

I like the design, but you ever heard of bumping uglies?  Whoever is playing that thing is gonna be rubbing shoulders, like , alot.....unless your build this for 4 gumby's...

[withalligators]

Oooh, you made me realize I didn't mention the dimensions of this pig.  It.s 47" wide by almost 7 feet tall (!!!!).  The CP is 45.5 inches wide, and should be enough room for 4 players. 

Can anybody suggest a good vendor that will allow me to part together the sanwa transparent neon green button surrounds with the red, orange, yellow, white, and blue buttons? 

Also, can U360s be plugged into a hub along with the Kade output, and then all of that down a single USB to the main rig?  For that matter, is the Kade my best option?  How about the Howler?  It seems there is no single encoder that will handle all of my buttons (30) plus 2 8 ways and 2 360s, or is there?

Cheers,
Alex

[Paul Olson]

I would get 4 people lined up in front of a mock up and make sure they fit. That looks like it could be really tight.

[yamatetsu]

It seems there is no single encoder that will handle all of my buttons (30) plus 2 8 ways and 2 360s, or is there?

The U360s are USB, they are not handled by the encoder. As for the encoder, have you looked at the IPAC4 from Ultimarc ? Looks like it has enough inputs.

[Slippyblade]

It seems there is no single encoder that will handle all of my buttons (30) plus 2 8 ways and 2 360s, or is there?

The U360s are USB, they are not handled by the encoder. As for the encoder, have you looked at the IPAC4 from Ultimarc ? Looks like it has enough inputs.

I'm using a pair of KADE's for my 4 player build.  If you use the extended mode 2 KADES gives 52 inputs.

[PL1]

I thought he was either peeking at KADE Loader (maxArcade prototype firmware) or planning on using the U360s for P1/P2 sticks/buttons and a KADE for admin buttns/Coins/Starts/P3 controls/P4 controls. 


Scott

[withalligators]

I'm confused about your post, Scott.  What's the maxArcade prototype firmware and Kade loader?  Also, I can hook the U360s up through a Kade device?  Doing that, I can get by with two devices?

I thought each Kade offered 20 inputs plus an alternate mode, bringing it to 40 apiece.  But, doesn't that require holding down a shift button or something? I would do this for admin buttons only, and see no other use for that function. 

I guess my question is this: Am I good ordering 2 Kades to handle 30 buttons, 2 joysticks, 2 360s, and 2 spinners.  what do you guys think of the spinners where they are, anyway?

Are the USB spinners made by Ultimarc any good?

GAH, so many questions.  By the time I've typed 1 question, I've thought of 4 more, 3 of which I forget by hte time I've typed that one out.

Thanks guys
Alex

Edit- Yamatetsu, I missed your post somehow, looking into that now.

[Slippyblade]

II thought each Kade offered 20 inputs plus an alternate mode, bringing it to 40 apiece.  But, doesn't that require holding down a shift button or something? I would do this for admin buttons only, and see no other use for that function. 

Sort of.  Each KADE has 20 raw inputs and each of those can be shifted.  But KADE also has an "Extended Mode" that allows you to assign outputs to "impossible" keypresses.  For example, it is impossible for a joystick to trigger both up & down at the same time.   It is possible to wire a button so that it activates Joy Up and Joy Down at the same time.  KADE sees this impossible input and issues an output that is configurable.  So that gives you 20 raw input plus 6 "impossible input" inputs.  I use the impossibles as admin and coin/start buttons.

20 raw, physical inputs plus the following logical inputs.
P1 up + P1 down
P1 left + P1 right
P1 up + P1 down + P1 right + P1 left
P2 up + P2 down
P2 right + P2 left
P2 up + P2 down + P2 right + P2 left

So 26 per KADE.  Make sense?

[PL1]

Sorry about the confusion.

When most people say KADE, they are referring to the KADE miniArcade. . .


. . . or the older-style microArcade with the tiny screw terminals.


Both of them use the same 16k or 32k Minimus AVRs.


Both of them use a program called KADE Loader to customize and/or program the AVR with the desired firmware.

KADE Loader can also program other boards, including a prototype called maxArcade that has many more inputs.

We have also added the KADE maxArcade board and firmwares to beta for evaluation by our testers.

Release Notes
v1.1.2.0 15/05/2014

The "Extended Mode" firmware for the miniArcade requires a bit of "backward" wiring and 6 Y-wires (red) to make the "impossible" combinations work and get 26 outputs from 20 inputs. (It really is easier than it looks.  )



There are several ways to get more than 20 outputs from a KADE -- see this thread for details and more pics.


Scott

[withalligators]

Took me a minute, but now makes perfect sense.  Thanks!  I would still need 2 though. 

Opinions on an ipac4 vs 2 kades? The kades seem easier, but the ipac would be just one single output.

Also, no one answered my hub question.  Could a single hub power and transmit signals for the encoder(s) plus the 2 360s and 2 spinners.  Could it also do the LEDs? Could a hub with out an AC adapter do this?  I'd love to only have one cord going out to the PC.  Especially if I make interchangeable panels.

Thanks,
Alex

[Slippyblade]

Also, no one answered my hub question.  Could a single hub power and transmit signals for the encoder(s) plus the 2 360s and 2 spinners.  Could it also do the LEDs? Could a hub with out an AC adapter do this?  I'd love to only have one cord going out to the PC.  Especially if I make interchangeable panels.

An unpowered hub?  Seriously doubt it.  As far as the LEDs go, you'd need to do some math.  LED's have a current rating.  You'd need to tally up the max current draw of all your LEDs and other devices and compare against the available supply from the hub.

[withalligators]

This Maxarcade sounds interesting.  I can't find anything on google.  Is there anywhere I can get more info?  Is there any way to get my hands on one? How many inputs does it have?

I figured a single unpowered hub couldn't do it.  I was hoping USB 3.0 could offer some solution though, but i guess not.

[PL1]

One unpowered hub would definitely not work since they are limited to 4 ports with 100mA each per USB spec.

Are you looking for single-color LEDs or RGB? Always-on or animated using LED controller?

The SpinTrak is a fine and often overlooked spinner, but also look into the GGG TT2 (1 master, 1 slave) -- IMHO it is the best and easiest to install/use piece of gaming hardware I've ever bought.   

At this stage you should list your requirements for encoder inputs -- see related Wiki entry here.

Remember that there are several ways to wire/use a U360 and the built-in 8-button encoder.

The maxArcade is still just a prototype, but KADE Loader (free open-source program available here) has a preview of it -- you might even convince Jon (degenatrons), Kevin (sharpfork) and Bruno (bootsector) to let you beta test one like Floriske.nl did here with the miniArcade boards. (the green miniArcade boards are prototypes -- AVRs are removed in this photo)



Scott

[yotsuya]

I like those MicroArcade terminals. Where can I find them?

[rablack97]

Ebay, however they aren't very durable, the larger screw down work much better.  The micro terminal bend a small piece of metal to hold the wire and over time that metal piece get out of whack and the connections stink.  Sharp prototyped the board with these as it was an easy source, he and I talked about the other version which he preferred the version shown in the photo.

I just get the green ones off ebay and throw some rit dye on them and gets me some black terminals for cheap...

[PL1]

Pretty sure Jon originally found green ones on ebay and dyed them black using Rit dye.   

Search for "2.54mm screw terminals 12 pole" -- not sure which vendors are good so Caveat Emptor.

You'll need 2 12-pole terminals per AVR.

IIRC Jon made a printable file for the terminal label stickers, but I'm not sure if/where he posted it.



Scott

[withalligators]

OK, as per the wiki, I need:
p1: 8 button inputs, plus 2 usb ports (if I use a usb spinner, what does the master/slave thing mean?)
p2: same, 8 inputs, 2 usb ports
p3: 4 inputs for the stick, 4 button inputs
p4: same, 4 stick inputs, 4 button inputs
admin buttons: 4 inputs

how about the coin mechs? 4 more inputs?

As far as lights, I would like to do each button surround, and the ball tops.  No fancy changing colors or anything.  Do I do green LEDs in green surrounds, or white LEDs because the surrounds are already green? Also, the coin returns will have lights too.  It would be cool if the Player select buttons didn't light up until a coin was inserted.  Is that a thing that can be done?

So: 36 digital inputs, 40 including the coin mechs, and 4 usb ports.  Wow, I didn't know spinners were so expensive.  30 more bucks, and you've got a decent lightgun.

Cheers,
Alex

[PL1]

what does the master/slave thing mean?

With the TT2, you can connect up to 3 spinners on one encoder board. (1 USB connection)

The master TT2 comes with the wires soldered to the X-axis connections on the encoder board.

A slave TT2 comes with a wire harness that allows you to connect to the Y-axis (or Z-axis) pins on the master TT2's encoder board.

how about the coin mechs? 4 more inputs?

Correct.  You will want separate inputs for Coin1 - Coin4 since games like TMNT and Gauntlet assign credits depending on which coin slot is used.

You can put a microswitch behind the coin return (wired in parallel with the coin mech) if you don't feel like dropping in quarters/tokens every time.

As far as lights, I would like to do each button surround, and the ball tops.  No fancy changing colors or anything.  Do I do green LEDs in green surrounds, or white LEDs because the surrounds are already green?
 Also, the coin returns will have lights too. 

PROTIP: Yellow translucent button + white LED = sunny yellow.    Yellow translucent button + yellow LED = muddy orange.   

Other than that, translucent color LED buttons usually come with similar-color LEDs or the IL-translucent (non-LED) buttons can be easily drilled/modded for regular LEDs..

When you find a few button styles and/or LEDs that look promising, order a few and see how they work together.

Paradise has hollow LS-32/Zippyy shafts for lighting the balltops and the LEDs to go with them.

It would be cool if the Player select buttons didn't light up until a coin was inserted.  Is that a thing that can be done?

For some games, yes.

Bad news: Even this minimal amount of animation would require adding an LED controller.


Scott

[withalligators]

Is there anything that sets the Howler apart from the Kade other than the few extra inputs and the built in LED control?  I could buy 2 kades, and an LED controller for less than the cost of a single howler.

Is there a vendor that mixes and matches parts on buttons?

[PL1]

Is there anything that sets the Howler apart from the Kade other than the few extra inputs and the built in LED control?  I could buy 2 kades, and an LED controller for less than the cost of a single howler.

Josh did a great job designing the Howler, but it may be overkill based what you've said you want to do.

It's geared toward a 4-player setup with animated RGB LED buttons and RGB LED balltops.

Is there a vendor that mixes and matches parts on buttons?

What style buttons are you looking for?

Buttons are fairly inexpensive but it's a good idea to test (and mod?) samples of the ones you think look good before you commit to a huge buy.

Focus Attack has some mix and match Seimitsu and Sanwa button parts here.

Bryan and Susan from Paradise Arcade Shop might be able to hook you up with green translucent IL's with black plungers similar to their clear/black IL's.


If you like the way the tests turn out, drop them a PM or e-mail asking if they can mix-and-match or get you a discount for 2x buttons (1 set green translucent, 1 set black) and only 1x microswitches.   


Scott

[withalligators]

Thanks!  Focus Attack has the plungers for only a buck which is a great start.  I wish they had the rest of the button setup.  and the seimitsu threaded stoppers cause they're a tad narrower.  But still, awesome find.  I had been looking at the paradise arcade site, and planning on asking them if they could come up with some sort of deal.

As far as T-molding, I'll probably go with the galaxian green molding, which is what I was planning on.  I tried other colors, but I like the neon green the most. In renders anyway.

So, in order to match the lit green button surrounds to the t-molding, I'm going to try some sanwa green surrounds with white and green LEDs.  I have a feeling though, the easiest thing to do would just be to get RGB LEDs to more perfectly match the color and brightness I want. I definitely don't want them to be so bright that they are distracting, and I don't want blinking and all that stuff.

How about lighting U360 balltops, has anyone figured that out?

Cheers,
Alex

[Ond]

Rotate an 80 pound monitor? Normally I'd be the last person around here to naysay an ambitious plan but in this case I'd have to agree with previous comment, instead of funding the gear necessary to achieve that, spend it on a monitor with a suitable resolution so it can remain fixed.  If you are are shaking your head and saying "nah I don't care I'm gonna do it anyway" its all good, I'll be watching, popcorn in hand.

BTW, it may be one of my projects your looking for that rotation link in   

[degenatrons]

Pretty sure Jon originally found green ones on ebay and dyed them black using Rit dye.   

Search for "2.54mm screw terminals 12 pole" -- not sure which vendors are good so Caveat Emptor.

You'll need 2 12-pole terminals per AVR.

IIRC Jon made a printable file for the terminal label stickers, but I'm not sure if/where he posted it.

Scott

Yeh,  green terminals sourced on ebay are dyed black with Rit dye. 
Search for "12pin 2.54mm/0.1" PCB Screw Terminal Block".

Here's the artwork for stickers - to be printed at 300dpi.

[withalligators]

I've been thinking about rotating this thing.  I think I can build a safe rotating mount for it using a welded frame for the monitor (as all the female mounting holes are around the outside of the frame, as compared to more modern TVs that are VESA oriented in some way), opposing force pillow blocks, and a short piece of smooth shaft. 



I need to figure out what diameter of shaft will be safe, or at least, won't flex.  I don't think 80 pounds at any angle will have enough shear to break, but maybe to flex a little and damage the bearings. 

Any engineers here?

Also, the automated rotation, yeah, maybe actuators on a flange?

Probably time to post the automation section.

[wirenut]

For the rotation how about using a large lazy susan and just hook the motor shaft straight to the tv or bracket?

Like this...

http://www.amazon.com/Capacity-Bearing-Turntable-Bearings-VXB/dp/B0045DV04I

Look at my build for some reference. 

[withalligators]

Nice build, Wirenut!! Great job on the rotation.  What do you do out there?  I've spent some time throughout the backcountry (or what's left of it) in various SE Asian countries, but I've never been to Indo.

I've read about the Lazy Susans, don't they have trouble rotating smoothly when not laying perfectly flat? My monitor is at about a 70 degree angle (20 from upright) and 80 lbs.  Do you think a lazy susan will work under those forces?  Do you think Polulu has a motor that will spin this thing?

[PL1]

I've read about the Lazy Susans, don't they have trouble rotating smoothly when not laying perfectly flat? My monitor is at about a 70 degree angle (20 from upright) and 80 lbs.  Do you think a lazy susan will work under those forces?  Do you think Polulu has a motor that will spin this thing?

A roller at the bottom will help to keep the lazy susan from binding.

There's a better setup somewhere around here that uses a fixed-position roller instead of a swivel caster, but here are some pics by Maximus. (posting as Griffindodd back then)





Related posts from his Marvel vs Capcom: Revolution build thread here, here, and his upgraded drive motor setup here.


Scott

[wirenut]

Nice build, Wirenut!! Great job on the rotation.  What do you do out there?  I've spent some time throughout the backcountry (or what's left of it) in various SE Asian countries, but I've never been to Indo.

I've read about the Lazy Susans, don't they have trouble rotating smoothly when not laying perfectly flat? My monitor is at about a 70 degree angle (20 from upright) and 80 lbs.  Do you think a lazy susan will work under those forces?  Do you think Polulu has a motor that will spin this thing?

My wife works for a major oil company so, I just hang out and travel around a bit.

I think it just depends on the Lazy Susan and the angle of the monitor.  I noticed on mine that a few degrees made a huge difference in how it traveled.  However, compared to the other options out there it would be the simplest and it's cheap/fast to try out.  I'll look into motors and controllers later and try to see if I can find some options for you.