Leaf style Pushbuttons and their differences

[jimmer]

For what it's worth, I just put one of my true leafs in the lathe and modified the travel up from 2.3mm to 3.5mm.

Much better more to my liking now.

Guess I'll find out in a few weeks? months? if it causes maintenance issues.

[leapinlew]

For what it's worth, I just put one of my true leafs in the lathe and modified the travel up from 2.3mm to 3.5mm.

Much better more to my liking now.

Guess I'll find out in a few weeks? months? if it causes maintenance issues.

The word on the street is your true leaf is garbage. Sorry dude. 

[dkersten]

X2 - What I should say is that after reading your rant, you should see someone about that.  I am sure that a little therapy will help your condition. 

But my nature is to argue when I smell ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---, so here goes:

De-Programmer  /On
 WakeUp Mode    /On

Here is your first problem X2, you assume that MY experience, knowledge, and intelligence is what needs to be "deprogrammed" and enlightened.  My advice to you has mostly been to give you an example of how to express your opinion without offending EVERYONE.  Some day you might see that you are not the only person on the planet with some form of intelligence.  But then after reading this post from you, maybe that day will never come...

So, you said:

It will bottom out, despite your best efforts to keep it from happening.

To which I replied:

Wait, you claim that you use a light touch where you hover over the switch and barely press it, so why would it matter to you if it bottomed out?

Then you said:

That is Not what I said.   The reply should clear it up, if you take the time and effort to understand it.

YET, in your immediate prior post you closed your argument with:

This assumes you know the proper way to use an old school leaf:

  - Knowing that you dont have to use the full travel of the button.  The leaf will depress about a mm or two..  and will activate somewhere in the upper-middle point.  The rest of the travel is made to absorb and rebound the forces, without any collision shock forces  (unless your hitting the buttons like sledge hammers).

 - Knowing how to "Float"  the button.   By first getting to the contact point.. and then lightly vibrating your fingers.. you can cause the contacts to open and close in distances at small as thin sheet of paper.  This makes for really fast repeated rapidfire action...  but requires about 85% less energy to do.   Since there is plenty of space after the contacts touch... you are easily able to maintain the action without accidentally bottoming out to an impact

Now, perhaps I am reading things wrong here, it seems pretty darn clear that you are saying VERY SPECIFICALLY that the proper way to use a leaf is to just barely press the button once you find exactly where it makes contact so that you never bottom it out.  Yet somehow you can ALSO argue that the problem with the leafs is that they bottom out. 

You are either contradictory in your logic or just suck at getting your point across, even with 10 times the words to do so.

(The irony here is that for decades people have complained that I am too verbose, and here I am telling YOU that you are using so many words that if you had a valid point, it was completely lost a long time ago.)

There are good reasons for what I protest.  For one, its to make people aware, and for them to demand better.

Again, you are making an assumption that your opinion is superior to everyone else's.  You claim I don't know you, yet that also means you don't know me, so how is it you can assume you have a clearer understanding of anything, or superior experiences in anything?  I have only counter-argued two points with you on this forum, and in both cases it was clear you assumed that your working knowledge of the facts you were using was second to none, yet in both cases you also couldn't apply the entire set of facts to a working solution.  Here you openly admitted that there were a bucketload of flaws in the "old school" leaf switches, and that most of those flaws were addressed in the current leaf switches that are on the market.  Yet you still maintain that the old original ones are the superior ones.  This is contradictory. 

Whenever you draw a conclusion about something, if you decide that certain data is important to you and other data, no matter how pertinent to the subject, simply isn't important to YOU, the conclusion you derive is OPINION, not FACT.  The facts of the data you have presented here show that each button type has its place.  Yet you try to maintain that ONLY the buttons YOU like are the ones worth having, and that if people would just see it through your extensive experience, they would understand that you are right. 

I bet there is a personality disorder that fits this type of behavior...

Some people are brought up with low quality experiences ... such as an extreme example..  of never have ate a Steak.   Only a Hamburger at best..  and those Hamburgers, were not ever seasoned well. They simply do not know what they are missing...  and ... and they will even take offense to someone who calls it out as it is...  because to them... its the best Hamburg they have ever Ate...

A) you ARE making an offensive comment, but you think it is offensive because I might like my hamburger and think it is the cat's meow.  But that isn't what offends me.  What offends me is that you have the gaul to assume that YOUR experiences in life are of a higher quality than mine.  What gives you the idea that somehow you have experienced anything in life that is better than what I have experienced?
B) Taste, just like most things, is different for each person.  Perhaps I LIKE unseasoned meat over seasoned meat.  And perhaps the way YOU season your meat tastes horrible to me. And the bottom line is that it would be YOUR OPINION that steaks are better than hamburgers.  Regardless of whether someone has experienced a wider variety of beef or not, you are starting with the assumption that YOUR OPINION is a fact, and it simply isn't.  To some, an unseasoned hamburger is better than a steak any day of the week.  You won't understand this though.  Matter of fact you are most likely thinking "this guy is an idiot to think that a hamburger is better than a steak."  This is your biggest flaw.

And let's talk steaks for a moment (although this applies to ANYTHING involving opinion).  It so happens that I HAVE experienced more than just a burger, and in fact have eaten steak at the finest steakhouses in the world.  And when it comes down to it, I would take a Texas Roadhouse 8 oz sirloin over ANY of them.  That's right, that $80 prime cut filet at Mortons isn't as good as the $10 TR sirloin to me.  And the funny thing is that NOTHING you say can convince me otherwise.  I don't care if it is a prime cut of the most flavorful filet that was cut from a premium wagyu cow, dry aged for a year and then prepared to perfection by a master chef, I will still take a cheap $10 steak over it.  But I won't try to argue that FOR YOU the Texas Roadhouse steak is better.  That is the difference between me and you.  I understand that my opinion only really applies universally to me, and while I might be ready and willing to discuss my opinion with others so that they may have a better understanding of a subject, I will never try to tell them that I am more right than them.  It would be futile to do so.  Sure, sometimes it's fun to argue your different points of view, but at some point both people need to acknowledge that it is a matter of opinion, and nobody can state that opinion is fact.

Well, obviously, anyone who has had the pleasure and experience of eating both... would laugh at that logic...  but to them,  you are just being too critical and are a complete snob, troll, and negative Nancy.

Obviously?  I just gave you an example of personal experience where you are wrong.  Period.  You can't say "obviously" when talking about opinion.  I HAVE experienced eating them both, and I still PREFER what you would call "inferior".  And you ARE a snob, troll, or negative nancy if you think for even one second that I should think differently.

Im sorry if its offensive to you... and hard to accept that the things you may like & love .. are not as Glorious as once thought.

But see, they ARE as good as I think, TO ME.  Just as the things you like are just as good as you think they are, TO YOU.  But until you learn the difference between OPINION and FACT, you will always be the "snob".

   That you were submarined by the powers that run the world,  into being born to live in a generation where a good deal of things made,  are in fact made with cheaper materials, shoddy craftsmanship, planned to fail parts, toxic chemicals / injected foods, some of the most audacious levels of worldwide corruptions ever so blatantly flaunted, with freedoms that are being dangerously whittled away each day...   

And as a whole, humanity LOVES it.  And then there are those people like you who can't embrace change based on the idea that because a few things were made better in the past, that the past was somehow a better time to live.  Yet we live longer now, have a FAR better (nearly infinitely better) quality of life today than we ever did, and particularly those of us in prosperous countries, live a lifestyle that has never been so luxurious in all of human history.

And there is no secret "power" out there that is trying to corrupt everything, there is only humanity.  The fact is, people with craft skills decided they were too good for what they were being paid, and started demanding more, and as a result, skilled labor got extremely expensive while materials and automation got extremely cheap, and you saw a shift in overall quality.  Greed and elitism killed craftsmanship, not some secret power hellbent on destroying the world.  And since you seem to have an overabundance of elitism, if you need someone to blame for the lack of quality in some of the goods available today, look in the mirror.

I dont need to have the latest and greatest.. or even the anything near the 'best'.   Couldnt afford it anyways.   But I, like anyone else... has the right to complain about things that are unacceptable, in poor taste, lacking in features, output, detail, quality, durability...etc.

As long as you can't just accept what you can afford and be happy with it, you will never be happy.  Just sayin..

Whats most disturbing, are people like you..  whom do not even have a Clue about the vastness of the differences...  and are throwing rocks around at people whom Do have a clue.  People whom do have experience with all aspects, have both actual parts! , and knowledge depth, that you lack.   Why?   Popular Opinion?   Defending the Generation?  Defending the Opinions and Egos of the "Clan" of similar posters..  ?

No, what is most disturbing is that you somehow think that you are the only person here with a clue or some kind of depth of knowledge.  You assume that EVERYONE here are a bunch of lemmings who will just accept the path everyone else is on. 

The irony is that your entire argument here is based on the idea that what was originally conceived 40 years ago is somehow superior to what everyone here has come up with by thinking outside the box and exploring new ways of doing things.  In my book, that makes YOU the lemming trying to stick to an outdated and antiquated path that was long ago abandoned by the masses for good reasons.

You are so full of yourself that it is a wonder you haven't exploded and covered all your superior old school technology with the ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---.

[AzureKnight]

When I designed the CLASSX button, I drew from experience gained through arcade gaming since before there were color arcade games, and also using the originals in my own home-built control panels in the early eighties.  After collecting multiple authentic panels and actual machines from the early days of arcade gaming, noting the inconsistent (and sometimes incorrect) installations on those panels and taking note of the complaints, regarding adjustment and contact wear, often repeated by operators and enthusiasts, I set out to revive leaf switch buttons by addressing those concerns.  Based on the very positive feedback I have received from actual users, I believe I have succeeded to a more than substantial degree.

Had I wished to merely duplicate a 30 year old design, with all of it's flaws, it would have been much, much simpler....and far less costly, as the molds for these already exist.  But then, none of the shortcomings would be corrected, so there would be no value in doing so.

.....

I think the rest of you kind folks will really like it, and that's why we keep putting our butts on the line.

Slightly off topic here, but relevant to Randy's post.  I'm finally starting my build after gathering parts for 4 years.  Randy, on my last order of parts you sent me some Groovy Standard Soft-Touch Microswitches.  Another one of those innovations from you and your experience in this field. 

I hate you!  In a good way   

I now want to replace all my switches (that I haven't even installed yet) with soft-touch ones....they are so much nicer to my sense of touch than the standard microswitch.

So thank you, I think 

More on topic, I don't recall from my arcade going youth the big difference between a leaf and micro switch but I have to say I am curious, I may have to order a few and see how they feel (for me I'm sure the newer options will work just fine).

[lamprey]

More on topic, I don't recall from my arcade going youth the big difference between a leaf and micro switch but I have to say I am curious, I may have to order a few and see how they feel (for me I'm sure the newer options will work just fine).

Don't order a few, get all that you need. That will save you on shipping for the next order you'll make to get the rest of the leaf switches you didn't the first time!

[leapinlew]

Some games benefit much more than others. Defender is the best example I can think of, but Track and Field is definitely a close second. Some games require rapid fire while others have a more set rate of fire. Mortal Kombat is a game that wouldn't matter if it were microswitch or leafs. Same with Galaga.

Personally, I just like to have no loud clicky noises coming from the games.

[Xiaou2]

But my nature is to argue when I smell ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---, so here goes:

  Well, lets start with the Obvious.   You immediately dispense a nasty and negative comment.   From my experience, (personal and witnessing it in others later... )  People whom tend to use such negative language and expression.. tend to have poor self control, and little to no self respect.   Hence, if you dont respect yourself... why would you respect someone else?

 What you are doing is Pre-Assuming  - or - Presuming.. on the side of negativity... and since your Ego is so grand, you want to defend the the stuff that it represents.. in the form of a  Presumptious Attack.   One you believe you will win.. which will make it all the more good for your Massive Ego...

 You see... theres a big difference between you and me.  When I point things out... such as when someone does a Stance incorrectly In the Martial Arts...  I dont tend to make fun of them.  I tend to spend time explaining why what they are doing is incorrect.  I have good reasons and examples to back this..  as well as a wealth of experience in the area, from hardcore, high speed, heavy contact, sparring bouts... usually against Ops about 2x my mass and strength.

 I dont do it for the Ego boost.  Ego means NOTHING in the face of a real Life and Death situation...  and what I studied, was solely towards that end.  Not for some gaudy looking ego-boasting figurines  (Trophies).  Its all good and fine if you like sport based competition... and while you still are effectively better than having no skill... you still are not combat level prepared. Most all of the arts have been intentionally watered down, to take away the power from the people... to keep them from much harsher rebellions.

 Yup, this may in fact hurt someones ego, when they feel so lofty and good about their Trophy collection... and the very hard effort they had invested to get there.  But it is the very fact that you attacked me... and so when I dish it back... you get all bent out of shape.. then try to tell me I should be Nicer in the face of your Attacks.   Its in fact your Ego that cant handle being dismantled.  Let it go, and you can grow.

Here is your first problem X2, you assume that MY experience, knowledge, and intelligence is what needs to be "deprogrammed" and enlightened.  My advice to you has mostly been to give you an example of how to express your opinion without offending EVERYONE.  Some day you might see that you are not the only person on the planet with some form of intelligence.  But then after reading this post from you, maybe that day will never come...

 Well, here is your 2nd problem.  You Assume that Im making assumptions.  Wrong.  I reply with information, based on whats needed.. or on the actual evidence in the reply.   And many times, I try to stay clear of personal issues... but when someone like Mel keeps attacking me, even when Im not even around... well then, its time to put him in his place.. because clearly he DOES have issues.  Big issues.

 But its funny how your grand backhanded 'im helping you',  turns into a negative, at the end...
 

Now, perhaps I am reading things wrong here

 - This.  Its a good start.  Admitting your not sure.   But then after.. its based on assumption, rather than a further question..

it seems pretty darn clear that you are saying VERY SPECIFICALLY that the proper way to use a leaf is to just barely press the button once you find exactly where it makes contact so that you never bottom it out.  Yet somehow you can ALSO argue that the problem with the leafs is that they bottom out.

 You are missing the boat again.


 The argument here, is about a 1980s style classic leaf switch button & holder assembly + its leaf switch...

  *** VS *** 

 The NEW modified Happs microswitch button assembly, with a different kind of leaf switch installed in a very different way.


 - The older leaf buttons have something like twice the depth of travel than the Happs microswitch buttons.
 - This makes it easier to keep from bottoming out a button... leading to discomfort and slower speeds.


 I find it somewhat surprising that you dont know the difference... being that these things are staples to the hobby.
But Ill give you the benefit of the doubt.. and assume that its your youth and inexperience...

 And NO...

 You do not press the 80s leaf buttons with a light touch.. you can lay your fingers on them with good pressure, and they will not accidentally fire on you.   This keeps your fingers loose, relaxed, and ready to react much faster than someone who had to maintain stiff control 'hovering' lightly on a button.

 Next, you will press the old button to fire... at normal strength and speed... but it wont bottom out,  so long as you do not use over-bearing brute force.   The older leafs are beefier and put up a very strong resistance once you get to them.. and start to bend past them.   In case you didnt know... theres also a second spring on the old leaf buttons as well. 


 A microswitch button however, does not have the travel space to do such a thing.  You press a happs button at the same intensity.. and it will ALWAYS bottom out.   A huge Part of this is due to the shorter travel.  The rest is due to the way a microswitch works.

 But when we talk about the Happs button with the Newer leafs in them.. its still the same story.  Use the same intensity press as a normal microswitch press... and it still will bottom out... even if you bend those thinner new leafs to hell.  Part of this is that the new leafs are not meant for heavy pressure.  The new leaf-button is designed to be bottomed out.  The new leaf springs are not capable of putting the kinds of resistance and bounce that the older leafs can.   Again, this is due to the designers thoughts.. that the button SHOULD bottom out.

 The designer, did not understand the reasoning of whys and the benefits of the older design.  He could only see the mechanical downfalls.   The ORIGINAL designers knew the downfalls, and chose to use them anyways... due to the better feel and playability, lower fatigue, faster responses...etc.

(The irony here is that for decades people have complained that I am too verbose, and here I am telling YOU that you are using so many words that if you had a valid point, it was completely lost a long time ago.)

 The Irony here.. is that you dont even know what we are talking about,  and chose to jump into the argument.

Again, you are making an assumption that your opinion is superior to everyone else's.  You claim I don't know you, yet that also means you don't know me, so how is it you can assume you have a clearer understanding of anything, or superior experiences in anything?  I have only counter-argued two points with you on this forum, and in both cases it was clear you assumed that your working knowledge of the facts you were using was second to none, yet in both cases you also couldn't apply the entire set of facts to a working solution.  Here you openly admitted that there were a bucketload of flaws in the "old school" leaf switches, and that most of those flaws were addressed in the current leaf switches that are on the market.  Yet you still maintain that the old original ones are the superior ones.  This is contradictory.

 NO.

 its NOT contradictory!   The older leafs do have a mechanical flaw... that will probably take a home user, about 30 yrs of play before they occur.  (Springs eventually lose their flex strength, due to fatigue)

 Lets apply this in speaker technology...

  You can make a speaker that lasts forever with todays technology... but.... does it SOUND better???!!!  nope.

 Older leaf buttons PLAY BETTER !!!   About 1000x better.   Less fatigue.  Quicker rapidfire bouts.  Far superior comfort.
Just because they will eventually fail, does not make them worse.

 In fact, almost EVERYHING made, will eventually fail.   

 - Cars brakes & Shocks?   - Fail
 - Precision crafted engines with ridiculous tolerances?   - Fail.   
 - Tires?  - Fail
 - LEDS?  - Fail.
 - Bearings - Fail.
 - Springs - Fail.
 - Metal - Fail (Rust)

 NOTHING lasts forever.  Especially if its mechanical in nature.

 But even if it DID last forever..  it doesnt change the reality, that something that performs and or feels better, is more desirable... and thus, superior.

Whenever you draw a conclusion about something, if you decide that certain data is important to you and other data, no matter how pertinent to the subject, simply isn't important to YOU, the conclusion you derive is OPINION, not FACT.  The facts of the data you have presented here show that each button type has its place.  Yet you try to maintain that ONLY the buttons YOU like are the ones worth having, and that if people would just see it through your extensive experience, they would understand that you are right.

I bet there is a personality disorder that fits this type of behavior...

 Ive stated over and over, that each type of button DOES in fact have its place.

 - Microswitches - best for modern fighting games.
 - Old School leafs - Best for classic and rapidfire games.
 - Re-make leafswitch's in a microswitch body - better suited to fighting game.

 The issue I have, is someone trying to pass off these buttons are being a replacement for the older Leaf buttons.  Its not even CLOSE to being accurate.  Thats like trying to sell a surgeon a Sword, instead of a scalpel.  Or a dentists, a hand drill.

 Its not even close to how the originals work.. and the reasons why they are pretty much a requirement for playing certain games.

 So again, your lack of information, had placed a lot of Egg all over your face.

[leapinlew]

The argument here, is about a 1980s style classic leaf switch button & holder assembly + its leaf switch...

  *** VS *** 

 The NEW modified Happs microswitch button assembly, with a different kind of leaf switch installed in a very different way.


 - The older leaf buttons have something like twice the depth of travel than the Happs microswitch buttons.
 - This makes it easier to keep from bottoming out a button... leading to discomfort and slower speeds.

Uh, no. The discussion is about Rollie Leaf Switch vs Ultimarc's Goldleaf vs GGG's Micro-Leaf Pushbuttons vs  GGG's True-Leaf Pro. You'll notice you start in the 3rd post bashing all the buttons.

Later in the thread you admit to not really trying the new buttons. I can assure you that with even the slightest bit of configuration, you can easily rest your fingers on a button and fire by finding the sweet spot in the button and the travel is more than enough to not be an issue.

Look at it this way, right now we are bus drivers and you are mouthing off about the inferiority of laserdiscs. If you experienced the setups I have, I can assure you that you would quickly stand down from your current position or at the very least you would decide that at least some of the replacements out there are at least equal.

Brother, quit eating your unseasoned hamburger and join us for steak! lol

[yotsuya]

Someone in this thread needs to get laid.

[Xiaou2]

The argument here, is about a 1980s style classic leaf switch button & holder assembly + its leaf switch...

  *** VS *** 

 The NEW modified Happs microswitch button assembly, with a different kind of leaf switch installed in a very different way.


 - The older leaf buttons have something like twice the depth of travel than the Happs microswitch buttons.
 - This makes it easier to keep from bottoming out a button... leading to discomfort and slower speeds.

Uh, no. The discussion is about Rollie Leaf Switch vs Ultimarc's Goldleaf vs GGG's Micro-Leaf Pushbuttons vs  GGG's True-Leaf Pro. You'll notice you start in the 3rd post bashing all the buttons.

Later in the thread you admit to not really trying the new buttons. I can assure you that with even the slightest bit of configuration, you can easily rest your fingers on a button and fire by finding the sweet spot in the button and the travel is more than enough to not be an issue.

Look at it this way, right now we are bus drivers and you are mouthing off about the inferiority of laserdiscs. If you experienced the setups I have, I can assure you that you would quickly stand down from your current position or at the very least you would decide that at least some of the replacements out there are at least equal.

Brother, quit eating your unseasoned hamburger and join us for steak! lol

 Yes I did try them, in my hand.  Its very easy to feel that they were way too easy to depress.. and that the travel was far too short to keep them from bottoming out.   They are not optimal for, and Id never install them on my games, such as my Asteroids Deluxe.

 Any extreme bending of the switches will not change the nature enough to fix the design problems.   It will also shorten the lifespan of the blades.. due to you expediting the fatigue of the metal.



 Also, your Galaga Statement... it not true.

 Galaga does have its rapidfire moments, most especially when the strings of enemies roll in... but more important than that.. if your any good at all with that game.. you will be playing for spans up to and over 8 min easily.  That amount of button pressing will start to wear you down... if your using the wrong kind of button.

 If your using an older style leaf, with the "Floating" method... then you wont be fatigued at all.  Trying to use a microswitch however... and your going to be aching.

 I know this very well... because, way back in the day... I took pretty much all of the leafswitches out of the arcade I was managing / repairing.   Not only were there complaints..  but I myself felt the difference,  and re-installed the leafs on certain games.. despite the more challenging maintenance.

[dkersten]

  Well, lets start with the Obvious.   You immediately dispense a nasty and negative comment.   From my experience, (personal and witnessing it in others later... )  People whom tend to use such negative language and expression.. tend to have poor self control, and little to no self respect.   Hence, if you dont respect yourself... why would you respect someone else?

Uh, that disclaimer was intended for others as a warning that while the polite thing to do would be to just let the troll lie, I couldn't resist the enjoyment of a good internet discussion.  While a half dozen people here have PM'd me to "not waste the words" on you, I actually enjoy a good back and forth, particularly with someone like you who thinks that A) their opinions are irrefutable, and B) their ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- don't stink.

And yes, I used a few words that could be considered profanity.  Sorry, I worked in a shop for 9 years, those words are pretty much standard vocabulary anywhere that men who don't wear ties work.  Plus sometimes the more "colorful" language gets the point across better than more mundane terminology.  The idea that you think that the use of profanity is somehow a reflection of a lack of self respect gives me another glimpse of the type of environment you grew up in, and I am sorry, it must have been rough. 

Respect, by the way, is earned, and I tend to give everyone I meet (both in real life and on the internet) a "base" measure of respect, and let them earn or lose that respect as time goes on.  In two threads your insistence on proving that your OPINION is somehow an irrefutable fact has pretty much removed any respect I had for you.  Hence my saying that I smelled "---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---"..

What you are doing is Pre-Assuming  - or - Presuming.. on the side of negativity... and since your Ego is so grand, you want to defend the the stuff that it represents.. in the form of a  Presumptious Attack.   One you believe you will win.. which will make it all the more good for your Massive Ego...

I didn't presume anything, your posts have shown me exactly what your stance is, and I am not attacking, I am just pointing some things out that you still can't seem to accept.  You have an opinion, just as everyone else here does, but somehow you "PRESUME" that yours is right and everyone else's is wrong.  And you say I have a massive ego 

You see... theres a big difference between you and me.  When I point things out... such as when someone does a Stance incorrectly In the Martial Arts...  I dont tend to make fun of them.  I tend to spend time explaining why what they are doing is incorrect.

Yes there IS a big difference.  First I don't believe that everything that comes out of my mouth is 100% correct and hence that I am "teaching" everyone.  You seem to view everything you talk about as if you mastered it, and hence everyone else in this world is a student to your mastery.  And furthermore, I know that pointing anything out to you will be ignored, so adding some sarcasm and a little jab here and there might make you stop and take notice of what is actually being said. It was futile though, you missed every bit of truth in my response to you and still assume you are correct in every regard and that I am just some youth who is attacking you just for fun.

I dont do it for the Ego boost.

If you don't do it for Ego boost, then how come this one post has no fewer than 3 paragraphs detailing your martial arts experience??  This is an arcade forum and a thread talking about button switches, yet somehow you have managed to interject a half dozen paragraphs about your martial art discipline and mastery, as well as your trophies.  Don't kid yourself, you are bragging.

I know why you got into martial arts - it was because you were bullied as a kid, and from your earlier comments, because you probably grew up in a pretty strict home that probably included some abuse and it turned you into a very anal person who requires perfection in all things.  I would put money on it that at your computer right now, nothing is out of place.  Thing is, I don't care, it has no bearing here.  (just so you don't go on a rampage and write another page about some martial arts experience, I am making some assumptions based on your previous posts, but I bet I am right)

Its in fact your Ego that cant handle being dismantled.  Let it go, and you can grow.

I have nothing to let go.  I don't even own a leaf switch, and I am happy with my clicky buttons.  I am having a good time arguing with you and pointing out where you are mistaken, more because you need someone to point out, in detail, what you are missing than because I have some kind of need to be right.  You are so confident that what you say is irrefutable fact and I happen to know from my own experience and background that while you have a lot of factual information to back up your arguments, your application is extremely narrow minded and you aren't good at applying your knowledge to anything other than your narrow minded views.  So I am pointing this out and it is driving you to write paragraphs about your martial arts experience (which has nothing to do with your ego or insecurity of course), while at the same time you are contradicting yourself and failing to just simply admit that your arguments are OPINION.

Well, here is your 2nd problem.  You Assume that Im making assumptions.  Wrong.

Given that you know nothing of my experiences, YOU are the one making assumptions.  My replies have been based on what you have said, which doesn't assume anything, unless I say "I am assuming" or "Just guessing here" or something of that nature.

I reply with information, based on whats needed.. or on the actual evidence in the reply.   And many times, I try to stay clear of personal issues... but when someone like Mel keeps attacking me, even when Im not even around... well then, its time to put him in his place.. because clearly he DOES have issues.  Big issues.

No, you reply with your OPINION, based on your experience.  Then you try to shove it down everyone's throat as fact, and then tell everyone they are wrong and you are right because "facts" back you up.  Yet you glaze over the facts that would nullify your opinion for other situations outside your own.  And still you can't even admit that your opinion may not actually apply to others.  Heck, someone showed a VIDEO of someone using a technique that disputed your opinion and still you said that they were wrong and your way was better.. You can't get much worse of an ego problem than that...

This.  Its a good start.  Admitting your not sure.

Actually that was sarcasm.. But you should try the whole "admitting you are not sure" thing sometime... it is easy, just preface your bold statements with the letters IMHO.  It might change your life to stop thinking you are on top of the world looking down on all of us.
 
I won't bother to argue your opinion of what this discussion is about because someone already pointed out the FACTS rather well.

But I will comment on:

you can lay your fingers on them with good pressure, and they will not accidentally fire on you.   This keeps your fingers loose, relaxed, and ready to react much faster than someone who had to maintain stiff control 'hovering' lightly on a button.

Perhaps your fingers are light and delicate, mine can't "rest" on even my sloppy, long throw, clicky switch buttons without triggering them, I have to "hover" to some extent (not completely, but I know when I fall asleep at the keyboard because I start to see long strings of a single letter as when I fall asleep and actually rest my fingers, they depress).  I don't have a problem with it.. I type on a keyboard all day long, usually for 9-10 hours, then spend another 3-6 hours playing games, usually PC games that require my hands hovering over keys for the duration.  By default, to some extent I am holding my fingers over the buttons and only partially resting on them.  And the amount that I "rest" on the buttons doesn't depress them at all, because it doesn't break static friction of the button.

But my entire argument has simply been that your have your opinion and your preferences.  Just because it doesn't work for me doesn't make you wrong, it just doesn't make you universally right.  You are right IN YOUR WORLD, and that should be all that matters.  Unfortunately your ego means that your opinion needs to apply to the entire world, and every situation, regardless of how different it is from yours.  There is, in your mind, one way to do things right for everything, and whatever you have come up with in your life experience is the one and only answer.  All I am doing is pointing out that you are wrong when it applies to others.  You were wrong about the monitors, you are wrong about the leaf switches. 

The Irony here.. is that you dont even know what we are talking about,  and chose to jump into the argument.

No, I knew what others were talking about.. and I was just pointing out that you were being contradictory, which you still are.  I also was pointing out that all your "facts" and knowledge of the subject is still not relevant outside of your personal preference. 

Lets apply this in speaker technology...

  You can make a speaker that lasts forever with todays technology... but.... does it SOUND better???!!!  nope.

 Older leaf buttons PLAY BETTER !!!   About 1000x better.   Less fatigue.  Quicker rapidfire bouts.  Far superior comfort.
Just because they will eventually fail, does not make them worse.

As much as I would love to hear an actual argument regarding speakers, this isn't the place.  But one thing I learned from nearly a decade of building competition stereo systems is that speakers, much like arcade parts, are incredibly subjective.  What I might consider to be the best speakers in the world might sound like crap to you, and vice versa.  As a salesman I might try to convince you that my opinion is better than yours, but nobody is trying to sell you anything here (well, maybe Randy, lol, but this is his business and you did insult his product directly).  I could care less if you use older leaf buttons and think they are the best.  Others here have a different opinion, and your pretention is preventing you from accepting that they might have a point.  You believe you are right and you are going to make sure that everyone on the internet knows that you think you are right, even if it makes you look like an insecure idiot.

NOTHING lasts forever.  Especially if its mechanical in nature.

except for your ability to believe that your opinion is greater than everyone else's.. that seems to be lasting forever..

But even if it DID last forever..  it doesnt change the reality, that something that performs and or feels better, is more desirable... and thus, superior.

OK, I will take a stab at showing you what you are saying.  Ferrari, Porsche, and Lamborghini all make some pretty desirable cars that perform as good as just about any car.  But a Ford Shelby GT500 off the factory line can smoke the fastest versions of each brand in the quarter mile.  They are less expensive by 5 times, have more horsepower, are easier to buy, get better gas mileage, and unlike most models of each exotic supercar, can carry 3 passengers plus a driver AND their golf clubs.  You can drive on any road in the U.S. with the mustang and not get stuck, high centered, or cause tens of thousands of dollars of damage to it.  You can take a 2000 mile road trip in one and not need a wheelchair at the end of the trip because they are more comfortable.  And finally, by buying American you are supporting American workers. 

I just made an argument that CLEARLY shows that the Shelby GT500 is superior to exotic cars like Lamborghini, Ferrari, and Porsche.  So now you NEED to believe that those cars are junk in comparison and that you should never even consider owning one, even in your wildest dreams.  And you better not argue it because my facts are right, and since I have driven all 4 cars AND owned 2, my experience is superior to yours. 

See, I can do that too, and just like your argument, it is ridiculous both in it's very nature and in my use of facts, even though everything I said about those cars is 100% true. 

Ive stated over and over, that each type of button DOES in fact have its place.

 - Microswitches - best for modern fighting games.
 - Old School leafs - Best for classic and rapidfire games.
 - Re-make leafswitch's in a microswitch body - better suited to fighting game.

 The issue I have, is someone trying to pass off these buttons are being a replacement for the older Leaf buttons.  Its not even CLOSE to being accurate.  Thats like trying to sell a surgeon a Sword, instead of a scalpel.  Or a dentists, a hand drill.

 Its not even close to how the originals work.. and the reasons why they are pretty much a requirement for playing certain games.

No, it would be like trying to tell a surgeon that he will be a better surgeon if he uses a Havel's scalpel over a Swann-Morton. 

And just like your argument that older LCD's are incapable of playing games on, saying that original buttons are a requirement is completely and utterly false.  As long as you continue to make statements like that, I will be here to point out how much of an idiot it makes you.