Plywood or MDF if I'm going to laminate?

[withalligators]

5/8" MDF seems very hard to find.  At least, they don't have it in my Home Depot or Lowes, but I haven't checked the lumber yards yet.  If I'm going to put Wilsonart vertical laminate on there, and then vinyl sideart, can I use plywood instead of MDF?  Is plywood harder to route for T-molding? will 5/8" ply plus two sides of laminate equal 3/4" to match the T-molding, or will I need to trim it so it doesn't overlap?

Thanks guys, trying to plan as much as I can so I'm not encountering problems or wasting materials too much.

Alex

[ChanceKJ]

Ply and MDF are both dirt simple to route for molding. As long as you put the blade on the correct way. 

[Slippyblade]

Ply and MDF are both dirt simple to route for molding. As long as you put the blade on the correct way. 

He's not joking.  Search the forums and you will find dozens of threads about T-mold slot problems that boiled down to the blade being on upside-down!

[withalligators]

Just because you've warned me about it, I'm now positive I'll make that mistake. 

Any reasons to use MDF over plywood?  Ply is soooo much lighter, and easier to source at 5/8"

[Slippyblade]

MDF over ply is simple.  MDF is ridiculously easier to finish.  It also cuts, routs, and shapes nicer.  No splinters.  That being said, it's heavy as hell and the dust it creates from being worked can literally kill you.  It's carcinogenic.   

[withalligators]

How much does that matter if I'm going to use a template to route each side out and laminate both sides afterwards?

[wp34]

More than likely any splintering resulting from routing will be covered by the laminate.  While I prefer MDF for the reasons mentioned already for my last build I used 3/4 Oak ply and did not have any issues routing/cutting.

The quality of your plywood can also impact splintering. 

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,136690.msg1412506.html#msg1412506

[mgb]

if your going to laminate, I'd say use plywood or particle board if possible (not OBX)

[lamprey]

If you are going to put vinyl side art there is no need to laminate, unless you mean laminate one side and put vinyl side art on the other side. I prefer plywood for the strength and weight reduction. If you are concerned with plywood not having a smooth enough surface and assuming you were going to laminate the same side as the side art, you might be able to save some money by getting MDO board. That is plywood with a thin layer (1/16 or 1/8") of MDF on one side. They don't have it at the big box stores in my area, but I was able to get mine at a smaller store, Dunn Lumber I believe.

[ChanceKJ]

It's a real toss up. I struggled with this choice for my build too. Tracking down MDO in Calgary was impossible, so I eventually went with ¾" cabinet grade birch. I really didn't want the extra weight of MDF or the added issues with the health risks the dust creates, or if it got wet if I spilt something on or near it (Read: Beer). That to me outweighed the nice finish that MDF gives off.

Really at the end of the day I wanted to avoid the paint process. It seems like such a daunting and messy task. Same with filling and patching the wood. But you know, I'm half way through that process now, and it's actually kinda enjoyable. I'm just gonna take my time with the paint, do a few coats and do it right.

[withalligators]

I've read conflicting things on side art right on mdf.  Is that kosher now? 

[blitzd]

I was planning on Spray painting my MDF board and covering it with plexiglass. Has anyone used spray paint on MDF?

[Osirus23]

I spray painted the MDF on my first cab. I primed it first and put on at least 2 coats of spray paint. It worked out just fine.

[mgb]

If you're deadest on laminating ( its a far better finish than painted mdf) then I wouldn't see any point to going with goofy heavy mdf. Personally I'd say, go with particle board (chip board) just like how the original cabinets were built. Particle board will be likely to be warped than plywood and its a whole lot lighter than mdf.
If your doing full vinyl side art, particle board would be fine without laminate.
Laminate is still fine even if your going with full side graphics.

http://www.lowes.com/cd_OSB+MDF+&+Particleboard+Buying+Guide_42276845_

[withalligators]

I'm not deadset on laminating, but it is a very nice finish.  It's expensive, but if that means less painting and paint prep, well that sounds good to me.  I painted a full size pickup once, and it was one of the worst experiences ever.  As soon as I ran that first rough grit down the paint, I regretted it.  I do still have a paint gun, and the paint job turned out pretty good, but it still SUCKED to do.  For 30 bucks a sheet, it works for me.

I am following your Flynn's arcade build, and am curious as to how it will turn out.

Cheers,
Alex

[mgb]

I've got to say, I laminated my cab and it was so worth the extra expense. The finish is excellent and the Formica brand flat black is perfect.
I much more prefer it over any paint finish.

[kahlid74]

If you laminate, go Ply/Sanded Ply.  MDF offers no benefit over Ply/Sanded Ply when it comes to laminate.  If you want to paint, go sanded ply or MDF.  For easier routing, go MDF.  Sanded ply can sometimes route nicely but it can also be a pain in the butt sometimes as well.  For the control panel MDF is typically easier to work with splinter wise, but you can do it with Sanded Ply just fine.  Don't forget about MDO.  Kind of a blend of good stuff from each side.

I used Sanded ply for the battletech Pod and it worked out well.

[DeLuSioNal29]

I've got to say, I laminated my cab and it was so worth the extra expense. The finish is excellent and the Formica brand flat black is perfect.
I much more prefer it over any paint finish.

+1
I've seen it in person. Much easier than multiple coats and sanding to paint like I did.

DeLuSioNaL29

[withalligators]

yeah, I'm more and more leaning towards laminate.

If I use 3/4" ply, and laminate it on both sides, how will the 3/4" T-molding look? calculator tells me 3/4" + .7mm + .7mm = .8"

1/20th of an inch isn't noticeable, is it?

I could use a furniture grade ply, apply sideart on one side, and laminate on the other, narrowing it down to .77", and I imagine the cost would be about the same

Whaddya think?

[ChanceKJ]

I used cabinet grade ¾" sanded birch. Works well.  A bit pricy for the boards I bought, but oh well.

Just measure 3 times and cut once to keep the cost from skyrocketing.

[withalligators]

I think various hardwood plys start at around 60 a sheet here.  which is about the same as a sheet of regular ply and 1 side laminated.  So, it would actually be cheaper to get high grade ply, cover one side in laminate, and one side in sideart, than it would be to get crappy ply and put sideart on both.  I could also use crappy ply on the kick panel, top, and other places where only one side will be visible.  inside that, it will be a coat of rustoleum and john deere flat black.

I've been following your post.  I'm waiting for you to paint. 

Cheers,
Alex

[ChanceKJ]

What mine? My Flynn's build?

I guess I should be more detailed with my paint process in hopes it turns out for others then. Hmmm.

[hksrb25s15]

I used both and mdf is easier to work with but if you get it wet, bye bye. Imagine if your basement flood the mdf will soak up most of the water.  Plywood is cheaper but working with it a pain if you don't know what you are doing.  And water doesn't effect it a too much like mdf.

[mgb]

With laminating, particle board would be a great choice.
It's lighter than mdf, it's much straighter than plywood. It's easy to slot for t molding.
It's fairly cheap. This is what many commercial arcade machines were made of.
http://m.lowes.com/product?langId=-1&storeId=10702&catalogId=10051&productId=3703728&store=2658&view=detail&nValue=SEARCH

Of course, just like mdf, keep away from water but I would think most people would want to keep their arcade machines out of water.

[RandyT]

With laminating, particle board would be a great choice.
It's lighter than mdf, it's much straighter than plywood. It's easy to slot for t molding.

Particle board is actually a little heavier than MDF.  There is also a "lightweight" grade of MDF that is as light as plywood, but is likely harder to find/more expensive.  Particle board can be rougher on tooling as well, as there are sometimes little stones and other non-wood/resin materials that end up in the mix.

Here's a chart for reference.

[ChanceKJ]

"Ultralight" MDF?  That's hokum!

[leapinlew]

yeah, I'm more and more leaning towards laminate.

If I use 3/4" ply, and laminate it on both sides, how will the 3/4" T-molding look? calculator tells me 3/4" + .7mm + .7mm = .8"

1/20th of an inch isn't noticeable, is it?

I could use a furniture grade ply, apply sideart on one side, and laminate on the other, narrowing it down to .77", and I imagine the cost would be about the same

Whaddya think?

some 3/4" ply isn't actually 3/4" thick. I think it's 23/32", or 1/32" or so. Get vertical grade laminate and it will come out pretty close to even with your T-molding. All mine did.

[dkersten]

Are you planning to laminate after assembly or before?  And are you planning full side art?  Those are your two biggest questions because it can drastically change your options.

If you are planning to screw it all together and then fill holes and laminate, you have to consider how you are going to do the inside surfaces because some of it will be exposed.  Then you also have to consider the "non-side" surfaces like around the bezel, under the marquee, around the CP, and below the CP.  These can all be tricky if you don't want to paint. 

But if you have plans that involve laminating beforehand for those pieces, then you might want to consider melamine.. it is already a laminated surface and it comes in 3/4".  And with careful consideration in your build, you could save a HUGE amount of finish time. 

The side art is a huge part too because if you do plan to use full side art, you can use melamine or go with ply or mdf with laminate on the inside side, drill and screw or glue and nail, then fill holes, sand smooth, seal the wood with a layer of spray primer, sand smooth, and apply art and never really have to deal with painting.. (with melamine you would just sand it smooth.)  I don't consider spraying on a few cans of primer to be painting because it is so simple and you sand it afterwards so it doesn't matter if you are careful.  I primed my CP with autobody primer from a spray can, waited a day for it to fully cure, sanded to 220, sprayed a second coat, waited a few hours, and then sanded to 320 and it was like a glass surface, perfect for applying vinyl.  If I had done my sides in full vinyl I wouldn't have gone any further than that on my sides. 

I thought about using melamine but then I would have had to use a method of construction that didn't involve screwing or nailing from the outside.  Certainly possible but a little more tricky.  I thought about laminate too but the added thickness was one issue as was trying to laminate the surfaces that are visible but impossible to use a router on to trim, or surfaces like my bezel where it is rounded.  It would have been more work in the end than just painting.  Once I had to prep to paint those surfaces, shooting the outer sides was a no brainer.  Plus I figured worst case, I was going to eventually put art on the sides anyway.