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Author Topic: Ok, Newbie to woodworking... Tool advice  (Read 10665 times)

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Mordwaffe

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Ok, Newbie to woodworking... Tool advice
« on: May 28, 2014, 09:12:30 am »
I am going to be building up a garage workshop for wooodworking, for Arcade Cab Builds mostly and other small furniture items.

All I have is a corded power drill, a dull wood-shark handheld circular saw (use to put up a privacy fence)

I know a router is all but mandatory in this hobby I have a billion questions;

is there a brand that is better than others?
what HP do I need?
Bits?
Do i need a separate one for a table router?
What do i need to look for in a table?
Plunge routers, do i need a separate one or do the combonation ones work?

Are there any other Must-Have tools?


Thanks for any input.

Generic Eric

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Re: Ok, Newbie to woodworking... Tool advice
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2014, 09:34:57 am »
Tools, like many other things come in at least 3 categories;  Good, Better, and Best.  The big box stores would have you believe that their house brand is in the good category, but that is a debate for another thread I think.

wired tools are generally better, but battery powered tools give you a little more flexibility.  My battery powered saw mostly sucks, but I'm due to change a blade, so there is that.

The best you can hope to is keep your moving parts lubricated and your bits & blades sharp.

Also, keep in mind that saw blades are labeled with what type of wood/material they are intended for.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 12:42:58 pm by Generic Eric »

Generic Eric

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Re: Ok, Newbie to woodworking... Tool advice
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2014, 10:52:08 am »
Another piece of advice would to be watch some videos projects.  A member here did some videos that I'll link to.

Also, check out woodworking for mere mortals and the wood whisperer on youtube.  While not directly related, you may gleam so insight from there processes. 


Mordwaffe

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Re: Ok, Newbie to woodworking... Tool advice
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2014, 10:58:29 am »
Thanks I will do that.

shponglefan

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Re: Ok, Newbie to woodworking... Tool advice
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2014, 11:32:49 am »
For a woodworking shop, I'd recommend: Router, Table Saw, Miter Saw, Orbital Sander, Corded Drill.  Jigsaws can be useful, although I find I don't use mine all that often.  A drill press is also handy if you have the space.

If you are doing a lot of furniture-type items, you might want to look into a Planer and Jointer as well (otherwise, you can always hand plane).

For routers, most mid-range brands will probably suffice (i.e. Dewalt, Bosch, etc).  If you want to go high-end, you could look at brands like Festool.  FWIW, I've been using a hand-me-down Black & Decker router that's 20+ years old and it's never failed me.  So depending on what you plan to do, going high end might not be worth it.

brihyn

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Re: Ok, Newbie to woodworking... Tool advice
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2014, 11:33:00 am »
something you might want to consider..

I was given a Craftsman tablesaw that's pretty nice for entry level. But the beauty of it is it has a mounting on the side to mount your router as well. the only caveat i found is that my original router didn't mount. (wife gave me a nice new Craftsman router for Christmas).

And was just going to post a separate thread...one great tool i can't recommend enough now is the Dremel Sawmax...really helps in both quick rough cuts as well as getting inside cuts.

Generic Eric

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Re: Ok, Newbie to woodworking... Tool advice
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2014, 11:35:23 am »
The Lumberjackass
That was the member I referred to earlier.


lamprey

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Re: Ok, Newbie to woodworking... Tool advice
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2014, 01:02:17 pm »
If you plan on making arcade cabinets and aren't going to do a CNC machine, then I'd highly suggest a Panel Saw. I'd trade my table saw in a heart beat for a Panel Saw. Granted they cost a little more, but the hassle they save breaking down large sheets of wood makes them worth every penny in my opinion.

Not advocating this brand, just a sample:
http://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-6480-20-Complete-50-Inch-Crosscut/dp/B0009H57JS/

lamprey

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Re: Ok, Newbie to woodworking... Tool advice
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2014, 01:12:07 pm »
As for routers..

depending on the amount of money you want to spend, I think it's worth it to have two: One mounted on a table and one combo fixed/plunge base.

I have a relatively cheap router that came with a table and it really comes in real handy. If I had to do over, I'd get a much better table for the router as the discount table I have is really the weak link in the system. The table router is only a 1.25 HP, but it seems as or more powerful than my 2.25 (go figure). I'm no expert, but I think you can get away with less power when the router is mounted to the table as you tend not to bind up because the table keeps things lined up. I'd go take a look at routers in person if you can. Some, have a button you push in to stop the rotation for bit changes and others have dual wrenches, there are probably other methods I don't know about. But, the point is, that some work better than others. For example, the router I have that is mounted as a nice long pin/button to lock the spindle which is reasonable accessible while mounted on the table. My Plunge router has a much shorter button and is rather weak for locking the spindle and requires much more pressure to keep engaged. Personally, I didn't think about that when I was buying and I'm not too thrilled with it, so I learned my lesion on that one.

mattgold

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Re: Ok, Newbie to woodworking... Tool advice
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2014, 05:03:53 pm »
A panel saw - although an AWESOME piece to have in the garage, is probably more varsity level than beginner.  Additionally, any Lowes or Home Depot will cut sheets down for you to whatever size you need with THEIR panel saw for FREE.  I can't even calculate how many times you'd have to use it before it justifies the $1000+ it would cost (make 100 cuts and you're still at $10/cut).

That said, I echo shponglefan:  Router, Table Saw, Miter Saw, Orbital Sander, Corded Drill (which, you can probably buy all of for less than a panel saw ;)).

I bought my Bosch tools from Lowes - you can get 10% off coupons from the post office for free (just ask for a 'move in' packet) and you can buy gift cards at ~10% off from eBay or cardpool.com.  That said, if I were to do it again, Craigslist usually has tools listed cheap - many by people that bought them for one or two projects then never plugged them in again.

The last thing I'll mention considering is DUST COLLECTION.  If you are working in a garage with ANYTHING else in it, expect it to get covered in dust.  You can rig up a good shop vac to help, but a dust control system is probably worth investing in if this is gonna be a dedicated shop.

All the best.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 10:37:58 pm by mattgold »

mattgold

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Re: Ok, Newbie to woodworking... Tool advice
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2014, 10:37:03 pm »
weird double post.

SpaceHedgehog

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Re: Ok, Newbie to woodworking... Tool advice
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2014, 03:00:13 am »
I agree with lamprey in having two routers. I wish I had another but end up spending all my money on the actual projects themselves. As for brands, I can thoroughly recommend Trend. Go for one with a half inch collett if you can.

mattgold also makes a great point about dust collection - essential if working with MDF.
Click a pic for a video tour 

Mordwaffe

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Re: Ok, Newbie to woodworking... Tool advice
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2014, 09:05:36 am »
Again thanks for the replies, I think I am going to pick up a router/table soon. What about bits? are there any that you consider "must have" like forester (?) bits and slot cutters?

The dust collection has been a concern of mine (seeing as i am working in a garage). I have seen equipment with what looks like "catch bags" on them, are they worth it? How do ya'll handle the dust? just sweep and shop-vac it?

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Re: Ok, Newbie to woodworking... Tool advice
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2014, 09:37:34 am »
Router bits - Flush trim bit and slot cutter for t-molding are the most commonly used ones, but you may also want a chamfer and some roundovers.

Forstner bits - Designed for use with a drill/drill press, not for the higher RPMs of a router -- related thread here.

MDF dust will get EVERYWHERE -- if you can do the cutting/routing outside *with the garage door closed* you will reduce your cleanup time by months.
(I wish I was kidding about that.  :angry:)


Scott

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Re: Ok, Newbie to woodworking... Tool advice
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2014, 10:28:02 am »
Again thanks for the replies, I think I am going to pick up a router/table soon. What about bits? are there any that you consider "must have" like forester (?) bits and slot cutters?


It doesn't hurt to look around.  I didn't know that there was a difference between some applications, but I found that there are some bits not intended for handheld routers.


http://www.amanatool.com/routerbits/chamfer-router-bits-49400.html

You won't get that type of info ordering a set from ebay.

I would say that you need a pattern, trim, straight and a tmolding bit, you'd probably be set for arcade cabinet building.

mattgold

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Re: Ok, Newbie to woodworking... Tool advice
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2014, 10:53:48 am »
MDF dust will get EVERYWHERE -- if you can do the cutting/routing outside *with the garage door closed* you will reduce your cleanup time by months.
(I wish I was kidding about that.  :angry:)

He's NOT kidding.

I would say that you need a pattern, trim, straight and a tmolding bit, you'd probably be set for arcade cabinet building.

Agreed.

shponglefan

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Re: Ok, Newbie to woodworking... Tool advice
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2014, 01:24:07 pm »
What about bits? are there any that you consider "must have" like forester (?) bits and slot cutters?

For drills: Get a standard set of drill bits (usually in incremental 1/8" or 1/16" sizes) and then hole saws and/or forstner bits for specific sizes as needed.

For routers: I tend to only use straight bits, top-bearing flush trim and bottom-bearing flush trim bits on a regular basis.  And a slot cutter specifically for T-molding.  Roundover bits can be useful if you need rounded edges.  You can typically get inexpensive router bit kits.  It's a good way to try out different types of bits.  They won't last too long, but then you can replace them with individual higher quality versions once you know what you really use.

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Re: Ok, Newbie to woodworking... Tool advice
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2014, 01:38:01 pm »
I was referred to htttp://www.slagcoin.com in a different thread.  Let me tell you they have lots of good info about tools as well.

Mordwaffe

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Re: Ok, Newbie to woodworking... Tool advice
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2014, 03:49:27 pm »
Wonderful help guys. Since I do no plan on getting a drill press (yet anyway) I am ordering one of these. And since I have a circular saw already I will build one of these for straight cuts.

So bits do not last long? about how many projects do you get out of one before they go kaput?

I have the slagcoin site before, and that seems to be standard for hole templates as well it seems.


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Re: Ok, Newbie to woodworking... Tool advice
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2014, 10:00:58 am »
Wonderful help guys. Since I do no plan on getting a drill press (yet anyway) I am ordering one of these. And since I have a circular saw already I will build one of these for straight cuts.

So bits do not last long? about how many projects do you get out of one before they go kaput?

I have the slagcoin site before, and that seems to be standard for hole templates as well it seems.

Bits last for a while depending on the ones you buy.  I have a bosche flush trim bit that is still rocking 2 years later, which is, for the amount I use it, too long.  It really depends on how often you use it.


MDF dust will get EVERYWHERE -- if you can do the cutting/routing outside *with the garage door closed* you will reduce your cleanup time by months.
(I wish I was kidding about that.  :angry:)
Scott

For all the posts I've done about dust and MDF dust specifically I was about to rail on you until I re-read and saw you were being sarcastic and then I was like bah, Scott knows his stuffs, he's no fool.

As Scott says Dust will be everywhere.  If you do use MDF and you use a router you need to wear a mask and have proper ventilation.  MDF Dust can shorten your life by 10-30 years and is a known cause of lung cancer as the dust particles are so small they sit inside your lungs and clog the pores.

blackwatchplad

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Re: Ok, Newbie to woodworking... Tool advice
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2014, 07:29:45 pm »
For furniture building, I would say a table saw would be the first 'big' tool i can buy.
Even with using a portable one, it opens up a lot of opportunities with addons you can build yourself like a sled for crosscuts and dados, dovetails and boxjoints, or cutting coves or moldings. I really do feel like the table saw is indispensable when it comes to woodworking.
-
that being said,  I think almost anyone could make nearly anything with just a router, a circular saw (with edge guide), and a corded drill, and a sander. 
And if you are going to make furniture, a cheap hand saw and a basic set of chisels can go a loooong way and be really useful.
A simple block plane is useful for furniture making, it could maybe be useful for cab work as well, im not sure.
And a square, gotta have a square no matter what.
The last "tools" i suggest would be a set of sawhorses, or sawhorse-like objects and some kind of table or bench.  When you're comfortable, you'll do better work.
-
as far as bits, the must have bits i think would be a flush trim bit, round over/chamfer, rabbet and a straight tipped bit.
I bought a pack that had several different kinds years ago, I am still using them today.
slot cutter for t-molding as well.
They can last a while if you take care of them, keep them clean, and you can sharpen them with a file sometimes.
A router table can be as simple as a piece of plywood with a hole cut in it that the router sits in and is flush with the top of the wood... then you just clamp it to your bench.
I would make my own router table before buying one imo.  There's tons of plans out there, ranging form simple to complex.
-
A drill press isn't needed, especially for cab work, but it does make putting holes in things over and over really easy. Plus opens up opportunities for sanding and milling.
-
This all being said there's always more than one way to do something.  You could make the same thing 7 different ways with a warehouse full of tools.
Table saw, router, and drill press, corded drill would be the four tools I would want.  With those and a bit of ingenuity you can make lots of other kinds of useful tools, if you wanted to.
The ones I mentioned just seemed to be the most useful to me.  I haven't done any cab work in years, but have been building more fine furniture lately.  So i feel like you should take that into account too when listening to my advice.
With all the 'fine-woodowrking' Ive been doing lately, i am sorta getting the itch to make a dovetailed cocktail cab though.

dkersten

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Re: Ok, Newbie to woodworking... Tool advice
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2014, 05:22:06 pm »
I realize this is a little older thread, but I will throw my 2 cents in.

First, your choice in tools is always going to be heavily weighted by the projects you want to do.  In the beginning, your "staple" tools are going to be the most versatile ones.

1) Router.  Can't stress how much you will use this in ANY project.  Most often for edge details, it is also a critical tool for reproduction, any kind of "perfect" inside cuts, and in some cases, oddball forms of joinery.  If you want tools that will last most of your lifetime (and often further), you want to stick to higher end brands like Porter Cable, DeWalt, Bosche, and Festool.  Fein and Milwaukee also make some nice tools but they are far less common.  This is by no means a comprehensive list, and arguments could be made about some models and even some generations of each brand, but in general, stick to a good brand and you will get a lifetime of use out of it.

2)  Table Saw.  I realize that for some a panel saw is a good alternative, and even in some cases is superior, but frankly for versatility a table saw in a woodshop is pretty much a requirement.  Cutting large panels down is only a fraction of what you can do with one, and when it comes to furniture building, it is practically a requirement.  Ideally you want to start with something that can be expanded on.  This typically means going with a brand like Delta, General, or Powermatic.  Table saws come in a variety of flavors, but for a shop what you really want is a "contractor saw" or a "cabinet saw" and NOT a "portable" type.  A cabinet saw is ideal, but you can turn a good contractor saw into something just as good as a cabinet saw for a fraction of the cost. 

3)  Cordless and corded drills.  IMHO, the only cordless tools that belong in a woodworking shop (ie anything that doesn't need to be portable above all else) is a cordless drill or impact driver.  It is pretty much a guarantee that you will need to drill wood at some point in some form.  You will also probably end up putting a screw in something at some point too.  Corded drills have their uses, and batteries tend to run out at critical times, but 99% of what you need a hand held drill for, a cordless will not only work fine for, but will also be 100 times more convenient to use.  A good Makita or DeWalt cordless will eventually show you why it is the best out there over the store brands like Ryobi.  Although, if you are a contractor, there is a lifetime warranty available with Rigid cordless tools.

4) I am adding this to the list of critical things to have: Either a jigsaw, a scroll saw, or a band saw.. For the most part, you will always have need to cut "unstraight" lines, and you need at least one to do it.  Sure, you could do it with a coping saw if you had to, but then you could do it all with an axe, a chisel, and a hand plane if you really had to.. I consider a jig saw (or a bigger brother) to be a staple, and all three to be a convenience because they can all do things the other can't.

ACCESSORIES

None of the above is worth a damn without the right accessories.  A router needs bits.  I won't waste time talking about different bits, but I will point out that there are brands of bits that are pure crap (off brand, store brand, or cheap brands like Skil) that will last you 1 or 2 projects at best.  The best method to measure the quality (if you are unsure) is price.  Also, where you shop is a HUGE part of it.  Find a store that specializes in contractor grade products and sells to cabinet builders.  Trust me, spending $50 on a good bit is better than losing $50 worth of exotic hardwood when the bit fails or burns the wood so bad you can't use it.  Over time you will build your collection, and it will take time unless you are rich.  Also, a good bit can often be sharpened by a pro for a fraction of what it costs for a new one.  Some bits you can't sharpen without altering the profile, and in some cases you NEED the profile to remain how it is.  The only bits I have burned through over the years is flush trim bits.. eventually you hit a nail or if using particle board or MDF you hit some metal in the wood (yes, there is bits of metal in particle board and mdf).  Also if you do a lot of counter tops, laminate will dull that flush trim bit pretty fast, even a good carbide one.  ALso, carbide is awesome for straight cut bits, and while they are expensive, they are worth it.  But don't drop it.. ever.  You WILL shatter it or chip it and make it worthless.  Nothing like losing a $60 or $70 bit because you dropped it on the concrete floor.

For table saws, a good blade is a must.  But there are dozens of different blades on the market.  Do your research for what you are using.  I like the Diablo thin kerf blades myself, in a fairly high tooth count (for a 10" blade, 40-60 tooth is great when sharp).  Laminate and composite materials will kill your blade in minutes, so if using it to cut those materials, use a blade that is ready to go to the sharpener or ready for the trash.  There are dozens of accessories that make a table saw more useful, most you can build.  However, there is some upgrades that will turn even a mid level contractor saw into a woodworkers dream saw.  First, building extensions off it can make it 100 times better.  Second, a good fence is worth it's weight in gold.  I really like my biesemeyer T-square 52" fence.  I can cut a 48x96" sheet to any dimension I want in one pass.  And with a good outfeed table and a roller for shorter cuts off a full sheet of wood, I can do them myself without any help from anyone.  Dial it in and it is accurate to 1/64th of an inch EVERY TIME, and it squares itself perfectly every time.  Finally, a good miter gauge can make all the difference in the world.

There are a pile of other tools that are pretty much a necessity to any good shop, starting with clamps.  You can NEVER have enough clamps.  Good pipe clamps, some bar clamps, and even the "quick clamp" all get used on a daily basis in my shop.  Also, the "parallel clamp" is extremely awesome (Bessey made them and now there are other brands that copied it), but they are expensive.  On a big furniture project I will sometimes use 40 or 50 clamps at once (about all I have) and I have run out before. 

A good random orbital sander will save your arms, so I consider it a staple these days.

A Kreg pocket hole jig is another great tool to have around. 

A couple different hand saws, some chisels, a mallet, a good set of drill bits, a good set of forstner bits.. these are all items you will never regret owning.

A drill press, bandsaw, scroll saw, and belt/disc sander are all tools that are very nice to have, although you can live without them in the beginning assuming per #4 above that you have a jigsaw to handle the curved cuts). 

The list keeps going, but this will give any aspiring woodworker a place to start, goals to set, and a list of birthday wish items for decades.