Franken admin panel for MAME

[yotsuya]

As much as I like the concept of a modular layout, I question whether one would want to take the time out to constantly swap out panels to play a particular game.  I am thinking about my own panel where I did purchase a steering wheel but I rarely use it because it is simply easier to play other games.   I tend to ump around in my gaming sessions which would make the modular panel approach not so practical.

Yeah, same here. Been there, done that. My first cab was going to have a standard two-player panel, a 4-way restricted panel, a trackball panel, a flightstick and thruster panel, a spinner panel, a panel with USB inputs for console games... I went so far as to design CPs for them all, and even built three of them. But it all comes down to space and laziness. Storing all those panels securely so components don't get damaged is a big concern.

In the end, it was easier just to build a dedicated 4-way machine and ditch the other ideas.

[Vigo]

Still not getting the need for O - K . Wiggle the joystick or roll your own, bro.

My Defender panel hasn't got left/right.

Also, the freshly plugged in panel doesn't work until in the game (each panel has it's own usb encoder, rather than plugging into a single encoder that does everything)

Can't you just then assign your "Left turn" button and "Right turn" button to equal left and right on the joystick? Then you just click those two buttons to get into the game. No need for an o or a k button. I'd think that even without the OK issue, the turn buttons would be wired up to be the same as the left and right on the joystick.

[Vigo]

As much as I like the concept of a modular layout, I question whether one would want to take the time out to constantly swap out panels to play a particular game.  I am thinking about my own panel where I did purchase a steering wheel but I rarely use it because it is simply easier to play other games.   I tend to ump around in my gaming sessions which would make the modular panel approach not so practical.

Yeah, same here. Been there, done that. My first cab was going to have a standard two-player panel, a 4-way restricted panel, a trackball panel, a flightstick and thruster panel, a spinner panel, a panel with USB inputs for console games... I went so far as to design CPs for them all, and even built three of them. But it all comes down to space and laziness. Storing all those panels securely so components don't get damaged is a big concern.

I have been down this road as well. I had plans for a wall mount of panels, and a snap-in design so swapping would no even requite plugging any wires in. The panel would be like a SNES cartridge where you would pop it in and push down and it would plug in right away.

In the end, I realized that the mass amount of panels needed to appease me would be too much to store. I would be dedicating more space to spare panels than the machine itself.

In the end, it was easier just to build a dedicated 4-way machine and ditch the other ideas.

I came to the conclusion that it is often better to just build multiple cabs. Last time I suggested this, X2 had a freak-out session on me. The thing is, after building my first cab, making a simple arcade machine is no longer a huge task. I can build on my time/my budget, and never am stuck with a perpetually unfinished cab.
 

[shponglefan]

While panel storage is definitely a factor, for those advocating multiple cabs, would not a storage rack be easier to build and ultimately be cheaper than multiple cabs?

I can understand the need for different cabs if there are various design considerations beyond just the CP.  Or if one is hosting parties where you a number of people will be playing games at one time.

But if we are talking just a different set of controls, then I would think just having a storage rack would be simpler than multiple cabs.

[michelevit]

I don't have faith that this cabinet with 16 admin buttons and removable control panels, and swapable artwork will ever get built. This is one of those posts that gets made for the purpose of discussion, but never comes to fruition.

[rCadeGaming]

Can't you just then assign your "Left turn" button and "Right turn" button to equal left and right on the joystick?

I'm not getting why this is still even being discussed.  Why not just patch MAME so you don't ever have to see those "nag" screens?  It's very easy to do and what's the downside?

[michelevit]

How can I break the world record for dedicated admin buttons?

[yotsuya]

Can't you just then assign your "Left turn" button and "Right turn" button to equal left and right on the joystick?

I'm not getting why this is still even being discussed.  Why not just patch MAME so you don't ever have to see those "nag" screens?  It's very easy to do and what's the downside?

QFT. I told him to roll his own.

[Vigo]

While panel storage is definitely a factor, for those advocating multiple cabs, would not a storage rack be easier to build and ultimately be cheaper than multiple cabs?

I can understand the need for different cabs if there are various design considerations beyond just the CP.  Or if one is hosting parties where you a number of people will be playing games at one time.

But if we are talking just a different set of controls, then I would think just having a storage rack would be simpler than multiple cabs.

There are a number of reasons why I advocate multiple cabs above swap panels, and I do realize multiple cabs is not for everyone. Here is what comes to mind for benefits of just doing multiple cabinets:

1) A cabinets worth of space would be needed to store the panels, ultimately, you can do probably 80% of a plethora of swap panels on two tasteful dedicated panels. Two cabs is gonna have more playability, as you can get more people playing at once. Plus, looking at a wall of loose panels is often ugly.

2) People get lazy of swapping. Hands down it happens on even the best of machines. Sorry, but pole position doesn't get played often because of the 3 minutes it takes to take off the current panel and plug in the steering wheel panel.

3) Wiring a swappable panel cab can be a nightmare. Jimmer is working his butt off getting a method that works. He is talking multiple encoders and admin buttons that nobody needs. The amount of work going into making 1 cab with 5+ artwork sets, wiring schemes, and one-size-fits-all designs that you have to try to make different yet match each other is a TON of work. More power to Jimmer for his willingness to tackle and problem solve the puzzle, but it is just not my cup of tea to recommend to others.

4) As most people here know, you get MUCH better after your first build. Trying to tackle a build that is perfect and ambitious on your first dry run is insanely overwhelming. If there was an issue with your initial design, you are so invested in your machine that you are stuck with every flaw you made.

5) Money! I cannot count how many times I have seen people blow thousands on equipment on their first cab, only to realize they were not up to such an ambitious project and end up selling their unused stuff once they realize they dumped a lot of cash. I don't know why we push for people to dump their savings on a project they never even remotely attempted before.

6) A clean slate. If i am torn between doing an Urkel themed cab and an ALF themed cab, I can have my cake and eat it too with a multiple cabinets. They can be wildly different in every way.

7) This is a hobby. I for one enjoy doing this. I don't see why promoting people to stop at 1 is so embraced, especially with how cheap you can build a basic cabinet these days. You don't have to have a machine with every bell and whistle and stop there to have an enjoyable home arcade.

8 ) If you don't have the biggest home right now, you can start with 1 cab and keep building when you have more space and money. You don't have to play the game of "I will get that fancy mame cab when I get my promotion and move to a big house". You can start with your first cab right now on your shoestring budget.

[EightBySix]

I'm experimenting with capacitive touch admin buttons at the moment, under the bezel. Not responsive enough for play, of course, but they give lots of flexibility for design. Might be useful for those wanting a minimal setup button wise.

[UFO]

Can't you just then assign your "Left turn" button and "Right turn" button to equal left and right on the joystick?

I'm not getting why this is still even being discussed.  Why not just patch MAME so you don't ever have to see those "nag" screens?  It's very easy to do and what's the downside?

 

[Dawgz Rule]

You do not need them. It's as simple (or as you are making it, as complicated) as that!

Don't need a FE either.  Don't need a power button to power up everything.  Don't need side art, LED buttons, etc. etc.

It is much easier to point guests to a EXIT and PAUSE button than it is to explain the whole concept of shift controls. 

Just sayin'

[yotsuya]

In my experience, you just need to teach guests once how to hit P1 and P2 simultaneously.

[michelevit]

Why are you people adding a dedicated PAUSE button?
No quarter eating arcade cabinet has a pause button!

[Malenko]

Why are you people adding a dedicated PAUSE button?
No quarter eating arcade cabinet has a pause button!

everybody poops.

Edit : Start + Down , not a dedicated button.

[yotsuya]

I don't use pause on my MAME cab even though I can using P1+Down. Seems.... dirty.

[UFO]

You do not need them. It's as simple (or as you are making it, as complicated) as that!

Don't need a FE either.  Don't need a power button to power up everything.  Don't need side art, LED buttons, etc. etc.

It is much easier to point guests to a EXIT and PAUSE button than it is to explain the whole concept of shift controls. 

Just sayin'

Brilliant!

 

[PL1]

Why are you people adding a dedicated PAUSE button?
No quarter eating arcade cabinet has a pause button!

And no quarter eating arcade cabinet can play 1000's of games you intolerant .

If you want to be a self-righteous high-and-mighty purist, stick to real cabs/CPs/PCBs and stop spewing this narrow-minded idiocy in a forum that is focused on helping people to "Build Your Own Arcade Controls" -- a name which clearly implies the possibility of customization to suit member's needs.


Scott

[shponglefan]

Why are you people adding a dedicated PAUSE button?
No quarter eating arcade cabinet has a pause button!

[shponglefan]

Why are you people adding a dedicated PAUSE button?
No quarter eating arcade cabinet has a pause button!

And no quarter eating arcade cabinet can play 1000's of games you intolerant .

If you want to be a self-righteous high-and-mighty purist, stick to real cabs/CPs/PCBs and stop spewing this narrow-minded idiocy in a forum that is focused on helping people to "Build Your Own Arcade Controls" -- a name which clearly implies the possibility of customization to suit member's needs.

The irony is it's coming from a guy advocating wireless keyboards.  Because vintage 80's arcades had BlueTooth.   

[jimmer]

Wow, who'd have thought a dedicated Q*Bert panel and O and K buttons would upset so many people.

[jimmer]

In answer to Vigo's dissertation on the merits of multiple cabs, I'll just say that multiple cabs with swappable panels is even better.

The biggest advantage of swappable panels for me is that I can now get on and start building, if I was trying to get everything right on a fixed design I would never get started.

[UFO]

Wow... this topic is going PH direction.

I think however that what has been covered here is that there are OPTIONS. Not one way or another, just options.

Since I started reading things on here, my whole build has changed due to the fact that some of the things I read about, I just didnt know were possible.

Thats what a forum is though I guess - a place to exchange ideas.

Good luck with the build - I am stepping away from this timebomb!

[Dawgz Rule]

I'm going to go poop.  PAUSE.

[michelevit]

The irony is it's coming from a guy advocating wireless keyboards.  Because vintage 80's arcades had BlueTooth.   

The keyboard is hidden 99.9 percent of the time. Using a hidden keyboard is more authentic than a dozen admin buttons cluttering the play area.
Its also a cheaper cleaner design. My guest have no idea my cabinet is a mame machine until I reveal the hidden keyboard and exit the game.
Its then they realize its a windows machine running mame. My goal is to build an authentic replica cabinet that is enjoyable to many.
Admin buttons or not, youre still going to need a keyboard to set up and manage your PC. Might as well make it a hidden wireless one.

Chillax everyone, I'm just offering trying to share what I have learned over the years. Build whatever you want and share what you build.
I look forward to seeing whatever cabinet is built and reading everyone else's opinion on this or any other arcade built.

I'm going to poop too. PAUSE.

[shponglefan]

The keyboard is hidden 99.9 percent of the time. Using a hidden keyboard is more authentic than a dozen admin buttons cluttering the play area.

 

Once you go beyond an original cabinet/PCB, authenticity is a moot point.  Saying that original cabs didn't have pause buttons while running a MAME machine... there's some irony there.

My goal is to build an authentic replica cabinet that is enjoyable to many.

Just remember that your goals are not everyone else's goals.

[shponglefan]

Wow, who'd have thought a dedicated Q*Bert panel and O and K buttons would upset so many people.

Hobby arcade building: serious business.

[shponglefan]

There are a number of reasons why I advocate multiple cabs above swap panels, and I do realize multiple cabs is not for everyone. Here is what comes to mind for benefits of just doing multiple cabinets:

<snippage>

I agree on a few points, particularly #1, #2, and #6.  I can especially see people getting lazy with swapping and not using it as much as they may have intended.

OTOH, I think a lot of other things fall under an "it depends".  For example, wiring can be complicated or it can be simple.  If one is using a dedicated encoder-per-panel, then wiring is no different than any other cab.  And even if one opts to use a single encoder in a CP base, using something like a molex connector isn't particularly complicated; it's just more time-consuming.

For cost, I can't see how building a swappable panel design would be any more expensive than a regular cabinet.  You're going to need all of the same basic hardware.  And it's certainly going to be cheaper than building entirely new cabinets which are going to require more h/w in the long run.

The concept of a swappable panel doesn't need to be any more complicated or expensive than a non-swappable panel.  For the most part the only significant difference is how the panel is connected to the cabinet.  So building a cabinet with swappable panels in mind can be done fairly easily, even if a person then decides not to both going beyond one or two basic panels.

[Vigo]

I am not trying to rain on swap panels, I still think it is a better solution than a mega franken panel. And I totally agree about the fact that the best solution depends on the person and what they want. I think Jimmer is looking to recreate a few very specific classic layouts, he seems focused in what he wants to accomplish with his project. If he can bring his methods into focus as well, (which is why he is posting here) It should be pretty darn good swap panel project.

With my general point about the cost advantage, I was thinking of the advantages of pay as you go, and keeping your project in a narrow focus. If you try to make a cab that does everything right off the bat, be it frankenpanel or swap panel, you could easily end up paying $500+ in controls alone. A first cab can reach $1000, maybe $1500 or higher when feature creep hits. Things like wanting a computer that can play everything you throw at it, a 1000w audio system, rotating monitor, LED extravaganza, etc. Now if you are a trying to build your first cab, and you work to scrounge a used computer, pick very specific controls, and keep away from feature creep, you could build a good looking cabinet in the $300 range. Times that by 3 cabinets and spread out the cost over 5-10 years, and it is a much better solution for the wallet. Of course, there is a place for creative and ambitious cabinets, but if spending money is an issue, making something ambitious can sink a lot of first builds.

[jimmer]

A lot of scrounging going on to try and make your argument work there Vigo. Swappable panels is the opposite of trying to do everything right off the bat.

Lets say we buy everything we need. Your dedicated cab costs $600 and my same cabinet with a removable panels costs $605  ($5 for the release mechanism).

Now my 2nd panel will cost $100, whereas you need another $600 for your second machine.

[yotsuya]

Vigo's second cab looks a hell of a lot more impressive, though.

[jimmer]

Vigo's second cab looks a hell of a lot more impressive, though.

Depends on what impresses you 

[yotsuya]

A machine that plays one type of game extremely well impresses me more than a machine that half-asses 10,000 games ZOMG!!!!1!!. And trust me, I started out with the half-assed machine. 

[Malenko]

Who spends $600 on a cab? I could get a couple dedicateds for less than that.

[TopJimmyCooks]

I'd like to call a moratorium on dissing Frank.  I'm hooking up jumper cables to the neck bolts on my latest creation now: 

Here's a little peek:  Yes, its a true FRANKENPANEL.  Universal monsters/Deco movie theater theme. 

[eds1275]

Late to the party! This has been a hilarious read. I don't have admin buttons on my arcade, and I use p1+down for exit, and p2 down for pause. Nobody gets confused, and nobody can screw things up. I have a keyboard inside if I need to muck about, which is rare. I use pause frequently because I have a beer fridge really close by and that makes two reasons to pause.

I think you can have as many buttons as you like as long as you're happy. Preferably you make it look good as well.

[jimmer]

A machine that plays one type of game extremely well impresses me more than a machine that half-asses 10,000 games ZOMG!!!!1!!. And trust me, I started out with the half-assed machine. 

What about a cab that plays that one game really well, and then with one panel swap plays another game really well?

[Vigo]

A lot of scrounging going on to try and make your argument work there Vigo. Swappable panels is the opposite of trying to do everything right off the bat.

Well, let me first say, I am not trying to knock your idea. It is probably the first swap panel I can think of that tackles doing a few dedicated game really well, rather than cram everything on 5 or less panels. I think you can simplify on your wiring approach, but as far as concepts go, I really think your vision is much more focused than about any swap panel idea I can think of.

That said, I never recommend swap panels to anyone. They are the path of the dark side. Sure the thought of having one cabinet play everything with comfortable controls is enticing, and the idea of doing that over a period of time is even more appealing, but that leaves tremendous pressure to get the cabinet right for all games on the first try. It is more than just getting latches (which I use on dedicated cabs anyway), it is the wiring and the design of the cab itself. Is the control panel a good height for a racing wheel? Should the pedal be permanent, or pulled out along with the panel?  Do I need separate panel for shmups and rotary games? Should I put a spinner with the trigger stick to play tron, or or double it up as a racing wheel? Can I split my analog inputs? Do I have enough clearance for my hand on a trackball panel, and If I angle the monitor for more hand clearance, will it be too angled to use lightguns? Etc, etc. Unfortunately, the way most people solve these questions is to just buy the goods upfront.

When I think back to the projects around here that never got off the ground, swap panels is really up there. I pin my personal failure in swap panels to the unforeseen complexity of it all. I tried to bite off more than I could chew on my first attempt, and in the end, I almost lost all my passion for the hobby.

That, and in the end, I realized I depleted my creativity reserves in the beginning of my project. As soon I had my theme, I found I was stuck with it going forward. I love the creative end of this hobby too much to just live with one theme alone.

[yotsuya]

"Hey, that's awesome! Can I play Mortal Kombat?"
 "Sure!" Turns cabinet around, open up back, takes out panel, swaps, closes, turns cabinet back.
Plays game.
"Hey, that's fun! Can I play Centipede?"
 "Sure!" Turns cabinet around, open up back, takes out panel, swaps, closes, turns cabinet back.
Plays game.
"Radical, dude! Can I play Tempest?"
 "Sure!" Turns cabinet around, open up back, takes out panel, swaps, closes, turns cabinet back.
Plays game.
"Sweet! Can I play Galaga?"
 "Sure!" Turns cabinet around, open up back, takes out panel, swaps, closes, turns cabinet back.
Plays game.
"Hey, that's fun! Can we play Mortal Kombat again....."

BTW, I was cleaning out my utility room today and found two of my now empty swappable panels..... 

[TopJimmyCooks]

first the frankenpanel dissing and now you're all on to crapping on swap panels.  Frankenstein CP, YotsuyaCadeCADE and I are getting a little peeved.