Franken admin panel for MAME

[jimmer]

How many buttons do I need on my admin strip?

I'm going to have swappable control panels and a fixed admin panel. Admin panel and swappable panel have their own usb keyboard encoders.

So far I've got:

1. ESC
2. TAB
3. Enter
4. Up
5. Down

6. Pause
7. Record Movie

8. 1P Start - 1
9. 2P Start - 2
10. Coin 1 - 5
11. Coin 2 - 6

12. User1 - O
13. User2 - K
14. User3 - ?
15. User4 - ?

I've put O K in there for hacked ROMs when you get asked to wiggle the joystick or type OK.  In eg Defender User1,2,3 will be use for the game adjustments (default F1,F2,9)

Is coin 2 needed? I don't really know how the 2player fighters work, but I understand on eg streetfighter you can join in with someone who is already playing solo, so on that panel I would put starts and coins on the panel as well as needed.

[AGarv]

I'd recommend using an encoder with a shift function (e.g. ipac) to turn that entire admin panel into one button.

[EMDB]

I'd recommend using an encoder with a shift function (e.g. ipac) to turn that entire admin panel into one button.

1 Player Start, 2 Player Start, Coin1, (Coin2), Pause and Exit (ESC) are quite commonly used, the rest can indeed be shifted standard buttons...

[michelevit]

just get this. its going to be cheaper and better solution that adding all those admin buttons....


http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Wireless-Keyboard-Multi-Touch-920-003070/dp/B005DKZTMG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1379516098&sr=8-1&keywords=WIRELESS+KEYBOARD

you dont use admin buttons that frequently that they warrant a dedicated button which you or a guest will inevitably hit and screw things up.

[rCadeGaming]

You should be using the mkchamp's hiscore patch to avoid pressing O K.

[Malenko]

You should be using the mkchamp's hiscore patch to avoid pressing O K.

or just move the stick left, then right.

[shponglefan]

I've basically designed out (although have yet to build) something the same as per the OP.  For the admin panel, I planned to have:

Esc, Tab, Enter, Pause, Reset

For Coin/Start buttons, I would just put those on the main control panel.  Reason being, if you are designing panels for different numbers of players, it would look weird to have some of the coin/starts on the admin panel, but others on the main CP.

For up/down, you can just use joysticks for that.  Unless I suppose you specifically plan to design panels w/o that capability, in which case having an extra up/down buttons might be worthwhile (or maybe a mini thumbstick in lieu of buttons?).

And some people will suggest not having a Tab button if you have random people playing your cab, because apparently random people like to reconfigure things.  If you are worried about that, you could still have a Tab button, but wire it to a hidden master switch so it can be disabled at will.  You can do that with other buttons as well.

[shponglefan]

you dont use admin buttons that frequently that they warrant a dedicated button which you or a guest will inevitably hit and screw things up.

Dunno about you, but buttons like Esc and Enter get used all the time.  Or how else do people switch in and out of games? 

[Malenko]

you dont use admin buttons that frequently that they warrant a dedicated button which you or a guest will inevitably hit and screw things up.

Dunno about you, but buttons like Esc and Enter get used all the time.  Or how else do people switch in and out of games? 

hold P1 start and press P2 start to exit, select games from the front end with P1 start.

[PL1]

1. ESC
2. TAB
3. Enter
4. Up
5. Down

6. Pause
7. Record Movie

1. Yes
2. Maybe -- For a dedicated cab, probably not.  For a portable/modular panel that might be used on different computers, maybe.
If you're constantly changing your gamelist and don't have kids or drunk/stupid friends that might accidently mess up your settings, TAB might be a good idea.
3. Maybe -- For a dedicated cab, probably not.  For a portable/modular panel that might be used on different computers, probably yes.
4. No -- Joystick up covers it
5. No -- Joystick down covers it
6. Yes
7. Almost certainly no -- How often do you actually expect to use this?  Wireless keyboard would probably be a better way to do this.

8. 1P Start - 1
9. 2P Start - 2
10. Coin 1 - 5
11. Coin 2 - 6

Yes to all of these.

12. User1 - O
13. User2 - K
14. User3 - ?
15. User4 - ?

No to all of these.

Jiggle the joystick to bypass the nag screen or compile a "no nag" version of MAME after you make sure your ROM collection is working.

Is coin 2 needed? I don't really know how the 2player fighters work, but I understand on eg streetfighter you can join in with someone who is already playing solo, so on that panel I would put starts and coins on the panel as well as needed.

In Gauntlet, TMNT, Simpsons, etc. the credit is assigned according to coin slot used. (use the 2 player version of the ROMs FTW)

No 2-player action without Coin 2.

On the subject of shifted functions: Some people love them, I'm not a big fan because there is a slim possibility that you can accidently trigger an unintended function, especially during 2-player action.

If you do go with shifted functions, be sure to put an instruction card on the bezel.


Scott

[zanna5910]

Go shifted, you will be much happier and your panel will be much cleaner.  Most all people who will play your arcade dont even need to know how to use the Admin commands or need to use them.  They want to start a game, play it, exit it, and start another...

I have, besides base controls, joysticks, and P1 and P2 start and coin, I have
Go (Enter), Exit (Esc), Pause (P), Volume (V) and Admin (Admin Encoded Shift Key)

I can then use Admin + P1B6, for instance, to use a Tab Key to get into configs.  You could use the admin key to do as many things as you want by mapping them to different buttons.

You can always re-program the shifted keys as well as your needs chagne.

[Malenko]

I wanna do it this way tooooooo

1. ESC  = P1 start + P2 start
2. TAB = lulwhy?
3. Enter =P1 start
4. Up =joystick 1 up
5. Down = joystick 2 down

6. Pause =P1 start + joystick 1 down
7. Record Movie = I guess?

8. 1P Start - 1 uh uh....
9. 2P Start - 2 uh uh....
10. Coin 1 - 5 uh uh....
11. Coin 2 - 6 uh uh....

12. User1 - O  = no, use joystick left
13. User2 - K  = no, use joystick right
14. User3 - ? = wut?
15. User4 - ? = wut?

you should use separate coin ups if possible.

[jimmer]

Thanks for the input so far.

A bit more info and comments from me.

In XP when I unplug a panel and plug a different one in, the encoder does not get recognised if I'm in the menu screen, but once a game is selected the panel is recognised. That's one reason for putting up/down on the admin panel. The other reason is that not all my panels will have up/down on them! same for left/right.

I want to reprogram as little as possible from MAME defaults.

A strip of 16 black buttons is hardly any different from a strip of 10 in terms of style.

Good points about not allowing access to some functions, I've just been thinking of the owner/main user so far, not about random users.

[keilmillerjr]

You don't need most of that ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- during normal gameplay. Keep a keyboard in the closet for setting ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- up. Also, you don't want some one else messing with your settings.

[zanna5910]

It seems a slideout keyboard drawer or wireless keyboard would serve your purposes pretty well for needing access to some of these buttons.  I would try to keep the CP limited to game input.

[shponglefan]

hold P1 start and press P2 start to exit

What if you are playing a multiplayer game and both players accidentally hit the start buttons at the same time?

[yotsuya]

hold P1 start and press P2 start to exit

What if you are playing a multiplayer game and both players accidentally hit the start buttons at the same time?

You turn, smack P2, and say "---smurfing--- wait your turn!" 

[UFO]

I can't get my head round why anyone has dedicated 'admin' buttons.

I plan to have none with all the commands shifted.

I will always be there when my buddies are round, and it's not rocket science - they would get used to how it works.

[shponglefan]

I can't get my head round why anyone has dedicated 'admin' buttons.

Simplicity and convenience.

[UFO]

I can't get my head round why anyone has dedicated 'admin' buttons.

Simplicity and convenience.

I don't find it complicated or inconvenient typing a capital 'A' using the shift-key and the lower-case 'a' key. And I don't miss not having having a dedicated 'A' button.

It just seems overkill to me.

[severdhed]

I don't find it complicated or inconvenient typing a capital 'A' using the shift-key and the lower-case 'a' key. And I don't miss not having having a dedicated 'A' button.

It just seems overkill to me.

Very well said

[shponglefan]

I don't find it complicated or inconvenient typing a capital 'A' using the shift-key and the lower-case 'a' key. And I don't miss not having having a dedicated 'A' button.

It just seems overkill to me.

Apples and bananas.  Computer keyboards are not arcade panels and vise-versa.

At any rate, it might seem overkill to you, but the beauty of this hobby is everyone gets to build their own.  Then they can tailor their machines to their personal wants, needs, etc.  Personally, I like a few admin buttons for simplicity and convenience.  Yes, I find it nicer and easier than having to use shifted buttons; especially not having to explain to people how to exit or pause a game, or put up an instruction card.

And given the relative number of buttons on a typical 2P, a few extra admin buttons doesn't change much.

The bottom line is this: there is nothing wrong or strange about having admin buttons.  And there is nothing wrong or strange about not having them.  Each option has its relative strengths and weaknesses.

[jimmer]

I can't get my head round why anyone has dedicated 'admin' buttons.

I'm having swappable panels. My Q*bert panel will have 4 direction inputs and that's it. Try shifting that into a useable admin system.

Maybe I should have also said that this is not just for me. I'm thinking about machines I build for other people, so simplicity of use is key here.

[UFO]

@shponglefan - I have no problem or "issue" with you having admin buttons - heck have hundreds, its up to you. The fact is that they are not needed, and I don't want to end up with a messy CP.

I did play with the idea of having one dedicated admin button - but then I thought - "why?"

@jimmer - your's is a whole different ball game and brings it's own unique problems. Still, I am assuming you will always have access to a P1 or P2 button? That's where my admins are mapped to via the joystick.

BTW, you have a dedicated Q*Bert panel? 

[michelevit]

How often are you using those admin buttons? (credit, player one, player two  aside)
10 buttons @ 3 dollars each and you are spending more than that wireless keyboard.

Once your cabinet is set up you don't need to access the configuration menus.
The wireless keyboard is perfect solution. You don't want enable your friends to muck things up.

Nothing worse than a well intended guest remapping keys to all your games during game night, while your paying the pizza delivery guy.

If you need to remap buttons when you swap control panels, just have complete separate MAME install for each dedicated panel.

A big plus of wireless keyboard is I can setup a cab and tuck it away on the shelf or in a drawer. I don't worry about guests or worse friends of guests who can muck things up.

[shponglefan]

Nothing worse than a well intended guest remapping keys to all your games during game night, while your paying the pizza delivery guy.

Once again, if that really is that much of a concern (sheesh, what kind of friends do you people have anyway?), an easy solution is wiring the
Tab button to a hidden master switch.  Then the button can be enabled or disabled as needed.

[shponglefan]

@shponglefan - I have no problem or "issue" with you having admin buttons - heck have hundreds, its up to you. The fact is that they are not needed, and I don't want to end up with a messy CP.

I did play with the idea of having one dedicated admin button - but then I thought - "why?"

Fair enough; different people's needs are different.

It's just a pet peeve of mine that invariably whenever a "what admin buttons should I use" thread comes up, certain people get on their soap box to preach about not using any.  And this is usually regardless of the person's needs or wants.

[jimmer]

BTW, you have a dedicated Q*Bert panel? 

grrr re-write reply because I got logged out and lost all my work

After Defender and Robotron I need a 3rd panel to make up the minimum order on the graphics print. I like q*Bert Graphics and it's easy to do so that's the main reason.  My panel with 4way stick will take more thinking about, eg  I like Pengo but not the graphics, and vice versa for Pacman.

[jimmer]

Using shift to hide TAB and reduce button count:

1. Shift

2. ESC      shifted:  TAB
3. Up
4. Down
5. Enter

6. Pause     shifted:  Record Movie

7. 1P Start     shifted: O
8. 2P Start     shifted: K
9.   Coin 1      shifted: 9
10. Coin 2      shifted: X

[yotsuya]

Using shift to hide TAB and reduce button count:

1. Shift

2. ESC      shifted:  TAB
3. Up
4. Down
5. Enter

6. Pause     shifted:  Record Movie

7. 1P Start     shifted: O
8. 2P Start     shifted: K
9.   Coin 1      shifted: 9
10. Coin 2      shifted: X

Still not getting the need for O - K . Wiggle the joystick or roll your own, bro.

[jimmer]

Still not getting the need for O - K . Wiggle the joystick or roll your own, bro.

My Defender panel hasn't got left/right.

Also, the freshly plugged in panel doesn't work until in the game (each panel has it's own usb encoder, rather than plugging into a single encoder that does everything)

[shponglefan]

Also, the freshly plugged in panel doesn't work until in the game (each panel has it's own usb encoder, rather than plugging into a single encoder that does everything)

Is there any reason you are using individual encoders wired to the panel?  It's possible to use a single encoder in the base, and then use connectors (i.e. molex or something similar) to wire everything up.

Granted it's probably more wiring work, but ultimately cheaper than using a different encoder for each panel.

[HanoiBoi]

Can I ask how many panels you're thinking about doing?  From what I've read so far, it doesn't sound very logical.  Have you done any mock ups, or at least drawn out?

From what I've seen in the past, most people with modular, swappable CPs usually have spinners or driving wheels or track balls or Tron/flight/trigger sticks.

(Qbert can be played on an 8 way easily.)

For coin, pretty sure you can map just one coin button to add credits for P1 & P2, so just 1 button there should get you by.

I also think the OK buttons definitely don't belong and can be easily avoided.

As far as art work goes...will the cab art match the CPs? And, will the CP art be customized to hide any 'buttons' that you're putting on the admin strip?

BTW, is this build for you or are you making it for someone else?

[PL1]

Also, the freshly plugged in panel doesn't work until in the game (each panel has it's own usb encoder, rather than plugging into a single encoder that does everything)

NOTE: This suggestion is not intended to antagonize the band of intolerant admin-o-phobes that always descend on these threads, but it probably will. 

Have you considered installing a Grayhill 04A-B01 mini-joystick in your admin button lineup?



It will give you up/down for menu navigation and left/right for nag screens.

It takes up the footprint/space of just one button.

I've worked out some great under-mounting techniques and have some wiring tips if you're interested.


Scott

[jimmer]

Have you considered installing a Grayhill 04A-B01 mini-joystick in your admin button lineup?

I will consider that. Certainly much more intuitive than 4 buttons in a row. And I guess there are frontends that makes more use of Left/Right than the basic MAME menu does.

[jimmer]

Is there any reason you are using individual encoders wired to the panel?  It's possible to use a single encoder in the base, and then use connectors (i.e. molex or something similar) to wire everything up.

It seemed easier than trying to work out a wiring scheme that catered for all future panels I might make.
Also encoders are cheap eg $7 for a minimusAVR.

[jimmer]

Can I ask how many panels you're thinking about doing?

This is a mockup of four that can share the same bezel. Robotron and Qbert will lose their start buttons, Dfender might keep them but I'll probably put some graphics in there.

Also to come are Missile Command, Streetfighter2, 4way stick, Tempest maybe, Battlezone, ...... I probably won't stop.

[Dawgz Rule]

As much as I like the concept of a modular layout, I question whether one would want to take the time out to constantly swap out panels to play a particular game.  I am thinking about my own panel where I did purchase a steering wheel but I rarely use it because it is simply easier to play other games.   I tend to jump around in my gaming sessions which would make the modular panel approach not so practical.

[UFO]

@shponglefan - I have no problem or "issue" with you having admin buttons - heck have hundreds, its up to you. The fact is that they are not needed, and I don't want to end up with a messy CP.

I did play with the idea of having one dedicated admin button - but then I thought - "why?"

Fair enough; different people's needs are different.

It's just a pet peeve of mine that invariably whenever a "what admin buttons should I use" thread comes up, certain people get on their soap box to preach about not using any.  And this is usually regardless of the person's needs or wants.

I'm not on a soap box, or being preachy - I am stating facts. I am not alone in not designing for admin buttons, and I want to offer a balanced point of view as opposed to one - i.e. yours.

You do not need them. It's as simple (or as you are making it, as complicated) as that!

It's also not about "needs" - some people may not realise that you can shift EVERYTHING and have a clean, uncomplicated, traditional, basic layout.

FOR ME (I can say this, because its what I think), it is lazy design. K.I.S.S.

 

[michelevit]

Best of luck with this project. Please post some pics and hopefully video of the arcade cabinet that you are building.
It's always interesting to see what people come up with. I'm interested what the final build looks like and how you incorporate the different control panels.