Check out this $35 PC!?!?!

[TalkingBull]

http://www.raspberrypi.org/

I just heard about this thing and the very first thing that came to mind was 'How can I build an arcade machine out of this?"  I am going to get one (When they get more in stock) and put it through some tests to evaluate its ability to run emulators.  I am thinking that if this works well enough, it would be a really LOW COST option for building cabs... and it is also so small...  Often I have to widen a base to make room for power supplies and HDDs when I build bartops. 

Did anyone get one of these and try this already?

[SNAAKE]

cpu speed lol???

[wivelden]

I wouldnt think anyone has one yet as they only went on sale yesterday morning and have already sold out.

[TalkingBull]

ARM1176JZF-S 700 MHz processor, VideoCore IV GPU, and 128 or 256 Megabytes of RAM.  Should be enough to run MAME.

[Thenasty]

for $35 dollars, I'll sell you 500mhz LAPTOP (it was a project, never got around to it) The LCD screen is out of it's casing.

I should go get it and take pics and post it here and at B/S/T.

[Thenasty]

ok here it is.

I just fired it up again.

It's a Gateway Solo 2550
500mhz
128MB RAM
5GB HD

As you can see, I plan to make it VERTICAL. i extended the cord in the back so you can flip it vertically.

PM me if you wan it. I'll post it B/S/T later on.

$35.00 + S/H (come pick it up if you want).

I have Win98 DOS loaded with DOS SOUNDCARD working (did not get into optimizing)
It has MAME 36 Final (with NO NAG, No WIGGLE JOYTICK or anything msg). It's my own build back in the days.

WIN98 INSTALL FILES are also in the HD. You can install 98.

[TalkingBull]

The purpose of my posting this was to suggest the $35 PC because it is so small.  Something like this should be ideal for running MAME or NES emulators and it's the size of a credit card.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

Yeah, this is approximately the 10th thread about it.  We'll see if it's actually ever available sale.  It's also more like $60.

Are you talking about a second batch, since the first one sold out earlier today?

http://www.osnews.com/story/25661/Raspberry_Pi_launch_turns_into_frenzy

[SNAAKE]

hdmi port and everything

[Turvey]

Someone making Custom Cases cases for them already!

Check the Q&A's 

[Howard_Casto]

Holy frikkin crap.... my internet has never been down for more than a few mintues in the past two years..... my modem finally decides to take a nose-dive and they release the PI during the couple of days it goes down!

(off to grumble and order)

[RayB]

700mhz will only get you going with some old version of MAME, like 0.78 or earlier.

[Dervacumen]

Raspberry Pastry for sale.  May take longer than anticipated to arrive because of the high percentage of loss due to poor handling, up to 40%.

[knave]

700mhz will only get you going with some old version of MAME, like 0.78 or earlier.

I disagree...I run a much newer version on my old PC and it's only 800mhz. Just about everything played just fine save for the known problem children.
(I havn't checked in a while but I want to say 114 or thereabouts...I think I set it up in 2008 so whatever was current then)

[paigeoliver]

You aren't really missing anything by running an old mame version anyway, particularly on older hardware. What would you really be missing out on, mahjong games, fruit machines, trivia games and a bunch of 3D games that require a beastly computer to run and specialty controls to play?

Very few games of any importance got added after about .60 or so and each and every mame release is slower than the last (a generalization, may get faster for some games while getting slower for others but the overall trend is towards slower). That is why you will see plenty of people running cabinets with ancient mame versions and not bothering to update the mame version on their desktop either.

Pretty much every game you ever hear much chatter about was emulated pretty much perfectly 10 years ago.

[Howard_Casto]

Pretty much every game you ever hear much chatter about was emulated pretty much perfectly 10 years ago.

You couldn't be more incorrect with that statement.  The best example I can give is gorf.... sure it was ADDED ages ago, but it never ran correctly until around version .110.  Heck we're just now getting samples for 005! Classic drivers get improvments all the time, they just don't get any press because the latest rom kiddiez game was released.  They just recently did a major overhaul to robotron, for example.

[paigeoliver]

I am aware that they keep tweaking the emulation of the classics, and I appreciate the work done to get things perfect.

So yes, you are correct, from a technical aspect the emulation wasn't perfect 10 years ago and probably isn't perfect now. I know the technical aspect of correct emulation has always been very important to you. So my blanket statement at the end there wasn't perfectly accurate.

However the vast majority of these tweaks are things that the end user will never notice without a real machine running side by side with mame or they involve very obscure titles that few people really care about.

Gorf is a great example since I have been playing that in Mame for years and I never knew anything was even wrong with it, and I literally had a Mamed Gorf machine in my living room for 5 years and dozens of people played hundreds of games of Gorf on it. While 005 is a great example of an incredibly obscure game that no one ever talks about (only reason anyone ever even heard of it is because of where it is alphabetically). It is great they added samples to it, but that probably wouldn't be the thing that made it worth upgrading your mame installation.

The robotron speed overhaul is definitely a real worthwhile thing though, and the only tweak of a classic that has ever excited me. Particularly since it was one of the few top tier classics that had any major noticeable emulation problems. However even that problem is one that only a tiny minority of people would ever be able to spot. People who hadn't already developed the ability to run marathon sessions of robotron on real hardware would never even realize the difference.

I am actually thinking about putting a separate mame install on my cabinet just because of that Robotron tweak (assuming the 6 year old PC in there could even run it). I could ALMOST marathon Robotron on the first generation Jamma Multiwilliams machine I used to own (which ran it the same way mame did). Chances are I could probably marathon it for real now that they have the speed right.

So, um, yeah, everyone, Howard is right, it does just keep getting more accurate. But don't let that make you feel like you are missing out if you have to run the old version.

Pretty much every game you ever hear much chatter about was emulated pretty much perfectly 10 years ago.

You couldn't be more incorrect with that statement.  The best example I can give is gorf.... sure it was ADDED ages ago, but it never ran correctly until around version .110.  Heck we're just now getting samples for 005! Classic drivers get improvments all the time, they just don't get any press because the latest rom kiddiez game was released.  They just recently did a major overhaul to robotron, for example.

[yotsuya]

I'm excited to try out this Robotron update. I only average 140,000 on the game, so I'll be curious to see if this makes a difference.

[danny_galaga]

With Paige on this one. I am happy enough with v78. Games are good enough for me. Anyone who wants a compact budget machine will probably be happy enough with an old version too. If you're not, obviously you can safely ignore this thread...

[ark_ader]

With Paige on this one. I am happy enough with v78. Games are good enough for me. Anyone who wants a compact budget machine will probably be happy enough with an old version too. If you're not, obviously you can safely ignore this thread...

I had a Mame4All variant on my Artemis and it was a .34 build and it ran quite zippy for a 200mhz arm. 

The Raspi Model A will be a game changer, especially next year when there will be an abundance of them.

 

[Howard_Casto]

My main problem with running a lower version of mame is the lack of extended features.  I think outputs were added around version .110 so that idea I had about a drop-in replacement for pcbs with output isn't going to work easily.  Take that, the fact that it's hdmi out, and the apparent limitations of a arm processor into consideration and basically what you've got is a cheap tablet, which can already run mame but has the added benefit of a touchscreen.

The compact size is definately impressive, but as we are getting more info in regards to a potential price hike, even more delays and the limits of what you can do with the thing easily... I'm less and less excited.

[ark_ader]

My main problem with running a lower version of mame is the lack of extended features.  I think outputs were added around version .110 so that idea I had about a drop-in replacement for pcbs with output isn't going to work easily.  Take that, the fact that it's hdmi out, and the apparent limitations of a arm processor into consideration and basically what you've got is a cheap tablet, which can already run mame but has the added benefit of a touchscreen.

The compact size is definately impressive, but as we are getting more info in regards to a potential price hike, even more delays and the limits of what you can do with the thing easily... I'm less and less excited.

Well my expectation of the Raspi is the chance to write my thesis on green computing: The five volt cloud. 

I'm sure that little fellow will run a few instances of Tiny Core inside Qemu.  Well at least 10 with Woof.

Mame will have to take a back seat I am afraid. 

[danny_galaga]

My main problem with running a lower version of mame is the lack of extended features.  I think outputs were added around version .110 so that idea I had about a drop-in replacement for pcbs with output isn't going to work easily.  Take that, the fact that it's hdmi out, and the apparent limitations of a arm processor into consideration and basically what you've got is a cheap tablet, which can already run mame but has the added benefit of a touchscreen.

The compact size is definately impressive, but as we are getting more info in regards to a potential price hike, even more delays and the limits of what you can do with the thing easily... I'm less and less excited.

Well my expectation of the Raspi is the chance to write my thesis on green computing: The five volt cloud. 

I'm sure that little fellow will run a few instances of Tiny Core inside Qemu.  Well at least 10 with Woof.

It's almost like you're trying to talk english or summink

[Gray_Area]

I don't think I've played a real machine since the 80s, but DK plays very differently, and in ways more interestingly, in current MAME. A lot of games do. Anyone will notice. You don't need a dual core to play these games (though you might need a newer video card if using HLSL), but even low P4s aren't going to cut it.

[kahlid74]

Mine ships on April 3rd, so I expect to have a working machine a few days after that.  I've seen a boat load of Linux distro's being released for it so I'm ready to go with that.  The big Linux distro that want's nothing to do with Raspberry Pi is Ubuntu because the arm processor is a generation behind what they want to support.  Fedora however is fully supporting it to I'll probably grab that and test it first before I move to Scientific Linux or Zorin/Tiny Core and go with super small Linux flavors.

I'd love to get Arch Linux working on it but Arch is not a fan of Arm procs, so we'll see.

[Generic Eric]

I have high hopes for this.  "Pi in the sky" hopes you could say.  It lowers the cost of entry for a mame machine considerably.  It will also help me afford a horizontal and vertical machine.

[Howard_Casto]

I have high hopes for this.  "Pi in the sky" hopes you could say.  It lowers the cost of entry for a mame machine considerably.  It will also help me afford a horizontal and vertical machine.

Really?  Because I can get a machine with those specs for around 50-70 bucks. Dealnews has a refurbished hp/dell p4 every couple months for around 75-80 bucks.  It's slightly cheaper at best.

[Generic Eric]

I have high hopes for this.  "Pi in the sky" hopes you could say.  It lowers the cost of entry for a mame machine considerably.  It will also help me afford a horizontal and vertical machine.

Really?  Because I can get a machine with those specs for around 50-70 bucks. Dealnews has a refurbished hp/dell p4 every couple months for around 75-80 bucks.  It's slightly cheaper at best.

Hmm...perhaps my comment wasn't complete.  It seems less of a hassle, less components to worry about anyway. 

[Howard_Casto]

I'm still unsure of that as well. 


We don't have a build of linux on it yet, much less one specifically for mame that can be installed and setup easily. 

At least until it gets in people's hands and they live for it for a while I think we are trading one set of problems for another. 


It's smaller and uses less power... atm at least, those are it's only benefits.

[kahlid74]

I'm still unsure of that as well. 


We don't have a build of linux on it yet, much less one specifically for mame that can be installed and setup easily. 

At least until it gets in people's hands and they live for it for a while I think we are trading one set of problems for another. 


It's smaller and uses less power... atm at least, those are it's only benefits.

Not true.  Fedora has released their Linux distro for it - http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/805

Also, it uses the last generation of arm which is supported in just about every Linux distro except Ubuntu who decided they no longer wanted to support it.

Also, your 50-75 dollar computers use significantly more power and produces more heat/noise.  The key about the Raspberry Pi is form factor, power and heat.  This is an age old comparison you can't do because they aren't in the same category.  It's like comparing a Laptop to a desktop.  It's foolish because they have different use cases.

[Howard_Casto]

I'm still unsure of that as well. 


We don't have a build of linux on it yet, much less one specifically for mame that can be installed and setup easily. 

At least until it gets in people's hands and they live for it for a while I think we are trading one set of problems for another. 


It's smaller and uses less power... atm at least, those are it's only benefits.

Not true.  Fedora has released their Linux distro for it - http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/805

Also, it uses the last generation of arm which is supported in just about every Linux distro except Ubuntu who decided they no longer wanted to support it.

Also, your 50-75 dollar computers use significantly more power and produces more heat/noise.  The key about the Raspberry Pi is form factor, power and heat.  This is an age old comparison you can't do because they aren't in the same category.  It's like comparing a Laptop to a desktop.  It's foolish because they have different use cases.

Have you seen somebody running mame on it?  Because if you haven't my point still stands.  If you'll notice I said that we don't have a build of linux ON it yet, not that there aren't ones that support it.  In other words how well the operating systems work with the device hasn't been proven yet. 

I'm pretty sure I just said that it's only benefits is that it's smaller and uses less power..... I'm not sure why you are repeating that to me like I don't understand that. 

It isn't foolish to compare a laptop to a desktop at all.  A laptop is identical in every category except one, form factor, so they are easily comparable. If you are on the go you use a laptop.... if you are too cheap to have both a desktop and laptop and need a laptop then you use a laptop.... otherwise, you should get a desktop.

My problem with the Pi atm is that it's so similar to a arm-based tablet.. in fact you should be able to run the same stuff on it if you switch out the OS.  The only difference is tablets have becoem an established platform, you get more hardware for your money and they offer more in terms of user-friendly apps.  The thing is, if this thing would have been released 5 years ago like it was supposed to, it would have been down right amazing.  The march of progress has passed it by since it's creation..... I'm not sure about it's usefulness anymore. 

We are just going to have to wait and see.

[kahlid74]

Have you seen somebody running mame on it?  Because if you haven't my point still stands.  If you'll notice I said that we don't have a build of linux ON it yet, not that there aren't ones that support it.  In other words how well the operating systems work with the device hasn't been proven yet. 

I'm pretty sure I just said that it's only benefits is that it's smaller and uses less power..... I'm not sure why you are repeating that to me like I don't understand that. 

It isn't foolish to compare a laptop to a desktop at all.  A laptop is identical in every category except one, form factor, so they are easily comparable. If you are on the go you use a laptop.... if you are too cheap to have both a desktop and laptop and need a laptop then you use a laptop.... otherwise, you should get a desktop.

My problem with the Pi atm is that it's so similar to a arm-based tablet.. in fact you should be able to run the same stuff on it if you switch out the OS.  The only difference is tablets have becoem an established platform, you get more hardware for your money and they offer more in terms of user-friendly apps.  The thing is, if this thing would have been released 5 years ago like it was supposed to, it would have been down right amazing.  The march of progress has passed it by since it's creation..... I'm not sure about it's usefulness anymore. 

We are just going to have to wait and see.

Fedora Remix was built ON a Raspberry Pi by Fedora Developers, so I'll assume when they say it runs well, it runs well.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your original statement was two fold: no working Linux distro on it and no working MAME on it.  The first part is not true, the second part is still true.  If this wasn't your original statement then my bad.

Even if Laptops and Desktops are identical, they have different use cases, just like you said.  So if my point is use cased based, then you can't compare them.  If I am on the go, a desktop is no longer an option.  If I am building a PC and need this size or this power, then a tablet is no longer a comparable option.  If use case is not required then yes, compare all you want.

I get what you're saying, I do.  My feeling is that this isn't behind the curve, and is still 100% applicable.  I can now take a Raspberry Pi coupled with an Arduino and basically build a fully functional PLC for 60 dollars whose form factor is in most cases smaller than a real PLC.  To me that's huge.  Raw computing power is behind the curve sure, but applicable uses are still super far and wide.

[kahlid74]

35 for the Raspberry PI
5 for shipping
?? for tax.  They say it depends on local state tax so we'll see how Wisconsin will take my money again.

[kahlid74]

Fedora Remix was built ON a Raspberry Pi by Fedora Developers, so I'll assume when they say it runs well, it runs well.

So here's a great article talking about the currently used and working Linux Distro's on Raspbrry Pi.  I'll eat my own words as the Fedora port seems to be sluggish and not so good but the Debian and Archlinux ones are rocking.

http://www.designspark.com/content/raspberry-pi-review

Also, it looks like there is an ARM MAME Beta in existence.  No idea how well it works though - http://caesar.logiqx.com/php/emulator.php?id=armmame

[kahlid74]

No need to pay sales tax.

Where exactly did you order it from?  I'm not doubting you, I'm trying to put in an order myself. 

Element 14 - http://downloads.element14.com/raspberryPi2.html?isRedirect=true

I signed up after they first ran out of them.  I got emailed that they got them in again or were taking backorders again so I logged in about an hour after that email and was able to purchase one.

[knave]

.... if you are too cheap to have both a desktop and laptop and need a laptop then you use a laptop.... otherwise, you should get a desktop.

Howard, that's an overly simplistic generalization. The truth is that most people can get by with one or the other. Most of the time I don't need the portability of my laptop. but since buying it I have pretty much stopped using my desktops (yes plural). Before buying the laptop I didn't know that I would enjoy sitting on the couch with the PC, or in bed, or going to the coffee shop. But I do now. Desktops are great but in addition to usage need there is preference.

Also, Rasberry Pi is a beginning. If it takes off it opens the door for a similar form factor with better and better specs. I imagine those dual core 1ghz chips that are in all the tablets now will be a good affordable candidate in the future...who knows, but they have to start somewhere.

[Gray_Area]

Really?  Because I can get a machine with those specs for around 50-70 bucks. Dealnews has a refurbished hp/dell p4 every couple months for around 75-80 bucks.  It's slightly cheaper at best.

I find these locally for fifty bucks ($50) or less. Just picked up one the other day without a SATA drive (as I had some to put in it) for $25.

[Samstag]

Really?  Because I can get a machine with those specs for around 50-70 bucks. Dealnews has a refurbished hp/dell p4 every couple months for around 75-80 bucks.  It's slightly cheaper at best.

I find these locally for fifty bucks ($50) or less. Just picked up one the other day without a SATA drive (as I had some to put in it) for $25.

A $50 PC will cost another $50 per year in electricity with moderate use (5-6 hours per day).  You can run a Pi 24/7 for around $3 per year.

[Howard_Casto]

Really?  Because I can get a machine with those specs for around 50-70 bucks. Dealnews has a refurbished hp/dell p4 every couple months for around 75-80 bucks.  It's slightly cheaper at best.

I find these locally for fifty bucks ($50) or less. Just picked up one the other day without a SATA drive (as I had some to put in it) for $25.

A $50 PC will cost another $50 per year in electricity with moderate use (5-6 hours per day).  You can run a Pi 24/7 for around $3 per year.

If you are playing your mame cab 5-6 hours a day every day then you have a problem.  Besides, a mame cab is going to need a power supply for the coin lights, marquee lights, potentially a powered usb hub for a keyboard encoder and the monitor.  The pc is only a fraction of the energy costs of running a cab.  Let's not grasp at straws shall we?

Regardless, pcs don't actually take up that much power, their accessories do.  A 300 watt power supply can power up to 300 watts of stuff, it doesn't always draw that much.  Remove the harddrives in favor of a usb/sd stick, unplug any optical drives and don't use a hw/accelerated video card and you'll find that a pc doesn't draw that much more power than the pi.  Of course remove all of that stuff and your speedy p4 will have the same crappy performance as well.  Performance requires power consumption unfortunately.


I think people are getting a little defensive over this device.  When it was first announced I was super excited, but that was several years ago.  Now you can buy a tablet with the exact same specs minus the i/o pins (which admittedly are cool) and with the added benefit of having a nice touchscreen.  The price of tablets are coming down dramatically as well.  You can get one with similar specs for under 100 bucks now. 

So until some really well written software comes out for it and people get to play with it a little I just don't see it as worth the purchase.  I did when I initially heard that they had finally went on sale, but then I went back and looked at the specs...  eh, I dunno, it might be great for highly specalized projects, but I don't think it's going to be very useful for mame.  I mean I couldn't even see it as useful for a "dumb" internet terminal.  Even the net has gone so hi-tech what with advanced scripting, flash and ect that the computer running it needs to be fairly beefy to get the full experience of many websites.

There are certainly applications for it though.  It seems a perfect fit as a pc integrated into a cnc machine for example, due to it's solid state nature and the fact that it's so tiny.

[ark_ader]

I'm thinking it would be great for an internet relay station, for those with rural broadband issues.



Something like this but smaller.