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Author Topic: So I made a Coin Manager...  (Read 9044 times)

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ArcadeRenegade

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So I made a Coin Manager...
« on: September 11, 2011, 10:30:02 pm »
Hey guys first of all. Awesome site. Seriously. This site was clutch in helping me complete my arcade cabinet and I couldn't have finished it without the help of your tutorials and forums. Mad respect.

Let me give you guys a little background. Recently I decided to revamp my 4 year old cabinet with a new paint job, better software, more intuitive controls, etc. I decided in order help make my arcade feel like more legitimate and complete, I'd put in coin slots. Which worked out great except for that fact that people are dumb (specifically my roommates' friends who came over to hang out and didn't get briefed on how to use the arcade) and don't know to wait for MAME to finish loading before putting in tokens.

So I scripted a Coin Manager program to let people put in coins in the frontend. It's nothing special as I just scripted it using AutoHotkey but I'm still particularly proud of it.

I know there has been a lot of controversy with these coin management programs in the past because they may propagate commercial use of MAME. From what I remember I saw two different instances of this.

Anyways, I want your opinion if I should or should not do a private release and help people like me who want a better way to manage coinage. I figure I people could send me a tell and somehow prove that their arcade is for personal use only (however I'm not sure how to completely verify such a thing).

It keeps track of P1 and P2 coins. Has a GUI overlay. And is completely customizable. And also has some misc. additions like support for a free play switch, run game on P1 & P2 start when in frontend, and allow gamelist scrolling with the P2 stick.

Let me know yay or nay. Also, If I'm out of line here then delete this thread. I just wanted to help out in any way I could.

Edit:  Send me a tell if you want to try the first release version. Just be aware that you'll have to do a source code edit and recompile MAME to get authotkey scripts to work properly.   :(

« Last Edit: September 13, 2011, 07:56:22 am by ArcadeRenegade »

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2011, 08:32:59 am »
Yes, release it. In a perfect world, the GUI would be completely hide-able, and the font used could be user-specified. Some folks may complain, but this is no different than a hi-score patch or a no-nag tweak... it makes the cabinet better for hobbyists. Heck, some people would complain about me putting a spinner on a Ms. Pac Cab... but I did it anyway, and it is awesome. Don't let haters keep you from being creative. I would love to see such software released and supported.  :cheers:
Completed projects: Pac bartop (Plug & Play), 30th Anniversary Pac cab (MAME), Point Blank (PS1), Centipede (arcade hardware- light restore), VS. Super Mario Bros (arcade hardware- light restore) Tetris Cocktail (SNES), Arcade Classics upright (60-in-1, then MAME), Multi-Raiden (arcade hardware). Pac Man vs.(Gamecube),

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2011, 06:22:42 pm »
Similar programs have been released before (I apologize I don't have the member names of the programmers at this moment) and it caused a tremendous uproar.

It's not about "haters" (as thefearsomefearful states). There was general concern that the program can make it easier for those using MAME illegally in a commercial setting. As to whether or not those concerns are valid is a matter of opinion. But after the dust settled, the authors of previous credit managers have made them unavailable due to these controversies.

Personally, I'd like a credit manager on my cab (it's home use) so I hope yours can be released unscathed.

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2011, 06:25:55 pm »
That would be great!

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2011, 06:32:33 pm »
Similar programs have been released before (I apologize I don't have the member names of the programmers at this moment) and it caused a tremendous uproar.

It's not about "haters" (as thefearsomefearful states). There was general concern that the program can make it easier for those using MAME illegally in a commercial setting. As to whether or not those concerns are valid is a matter of opinion. But after the dust settled, the authors of previous credit managers have made them unavailable due to these controversies.

Personally, I'd like a credit manager on my cab (it's home use) so I hope yours can be released unscathed.

 :stupid

There are like three or four, but they are only available if you personally request it from the authors.  This is so they can keep track of who has it in the event of shennanigans. 

Technically speaking anything that read mame cfgs and/or mame outputs could do this.  So of my stuff could do it.  But I'll never tell.  ;)

It's a great idea though and you should use it.  I would just be careful about how you post it. 

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2011, 06:57:54 pm »

It's not about "haters" (as thefearsomefearful states).

It is, though... each of those programmers had a good idea, and then because people hated the result (without, in my opinion, rational reasons-- such as examples of it being used in illegal machines, or people stating their intent to do so) the creators pulled back and back until it was behind a wall of "PM me for info" or "show me your project thread." The best way for this kind of software to be refined is for it to be unrestricted; a no-nag patch would certainly add "value" to an illegal coin operated machine, but there are no hoops to jump through to download that.

I am all for walking the straight and narrow- see my posts on topics such as piracy... I fully agree things like this should be used responsibly. But a good (and) bad about this forum is that people's opinions generally get listened to. I just hope that before people dump on ArcadeRenegade's idea, they think through the ramifications of squashing good ideas. It is not a huge deal- I would use it on my home machine if it existed, as I love the aesthetic of using actual coins, but I can certainly wait the 5 seconds for the rom tests and such-  but reading through the threads on similar software really bummed me out. Sorry for the wall of text!  :cheers:
Completed projects: Pac bartop (Plug & Play), 30th Anniversary Pac cab (MAME), Point Blank (PS1), Centipede (arcade hardware- light restore), VS. Super Mario Bros (arcade hardware- light restore) Tetris Cocktail (SNES), Arcade Classics upright (60-in-1, then MAME), Multi-Raiden (arcade hardware). Pac Man vs.(Gamecube),

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2011, 09:15:49 pm »
Similar programs have been released before (I apologize I don't have the member names of the programmers at this moment) and it caused a tremendous uproar.

It's not about "haters" (as thefearsomefearful states). There was general concern that the program can make it easier for those using MAME illegally in a commercial setting. As to whether or not those concerns are valid is a matter of opinion. But after the dust settled, the authors of previous credit managers have made them unavailable due to these controversies.

Personally, I'd like a credit manager on my cab (it's home use) so I hope yours can be released unscathed.

You've only got to pull apart some of the xxx-in-1 boards to see that the concerns are valid.  Many of them are using exactly this kind of background thing to inject coins into MAME.

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2011, 10:33:57 pm »

It's not about "haters" (as thefearsomefearful states).

It is, though... each of those programmers had a good idea, and then because people hated the result (without, in my opinion, rational reasons-- such as examples of it being used in illegal machines, or people stating their intent to do so) the creators pulled back and back until it was behind a wall of "PM me for info" or "show me your project thread." The best way for this kind of software to be refined is for it to be unrestricted; a no-nag patch would certainly add "value" to an illegal coin operated machine, but there are no hoops to jump through to download that.

I am all for walking the straight and narrow- see my posts on topics such as piracy... I fully agree things like this should be used responsibly. But a good (and) bad about this forum is that people's opinions generally get listened to. I just hope that before people dump on ArcadeRenegade's idea, they think through the ramifications of squashing good ideas. It is not a huge deal- I would use it on my home machine if it existed, as I love the aesthetic of using actual coins, but I can certainly wait the 5 seconds for the rom tests and such-  but reading through the threads on similar software really bummed me out. Sorry for the wall of text!  :cheers:

I never really got in the middle of these debates about credit managers but you're making it sound like there's a conspiracy again programmers who make front end tools to make a home arcade cabinet appear more authentic. Without defending or countering MAME's stance on tools, their best interest is to prevent unauthorized use of MAME for commercial purposes. If it gets out of control, the hammer could come down on them hard from the likes of Nintendo, Sega, etc.

I think the "no nag" patch gets a pass because it doesn't deal with the coins. What, in my mind, gets MAME Devs worried is the whole "money" aspect of such a tool. With it, operators don't have to worry about people thinking the game is broken when they drop a token in the menu, start a game and have zero credits.

But it's not like they "hate" on it for no good reason. I'm sure a few of them even liked it. But they're expressing concerns to protect themselves and the overall MAME project.

For the record: I'm not trying to detract the OP from releasing it. Heck, send me a link if and when it is. But I'm not starting a debate about the good or bad that comes with the program, only offering up warning based on what had happened in the past.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 10:38:39 pm by DaveMMR »

abispac

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2011, 11:36:22 pm »
Yes, release it. In a perfect world, the GUI would be completely hide-able, and the font used could be user-specified. Some folks may complain, but this is no different than a hi-score patch or a no-nag tweak... it makes the cabinet better for hobbyists. Heck, some people would complain about me putting a spinner on a Ms. Pac Cab... but I did it anyway, and it is awesome. Don't let haters keep you from being creative. I would love to see such software released and supported.  :cheers:
i agree  ;) and if you decide to release'it or share'it, then send me a pm. I just created a cocktail cab with hyperspin and the vertical themes from jeepguy81, and it looks just perfect, somenthing like this would be awsome as some folks dont have an idea that you need to choose the game first then insert the coin, so when im not around and my son brings some friends over, sometimes they loose a coin or 2, and i dont give my son the door key  ;D. So in my opinion, yes you should release that on a private basis with some kind of hobbist proof.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 11:42:36 pm by abispac »

ArcadeRenegade

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2011, 07:45:57 am »
Similar programs have been released before (I apologize I don't have the member names of the programmers at this moment) and it caused a tremendous uproar.

It's not about "haters" (as thefearsomefearful states). There was general concern that the program can make it easier for those using MAME illegally in a commercial setting. As to whether or not those concerns are valid is a matter of opinion. But after the dust settled, the authors of previous credit managers have made them unavailable due to these controversies.

Personally, I'd like a credit manager on my cab (it's home use) so I hope yours can be released unscathed.

 :stupid

There are like three or four, but they are only available if you personally request it from the authors.  This is so they can keep track of who has it in the event of shennanigans.  

Technically speaking anything that read mame cfgs and/or mame outputs could do this.  So of my stuff could do it.  But I'll never tell.  ;)

It's a great idea though and you should use it.  I would just be careful about how you post it.  


Yea I was reading up on the discussion between you and headkaze on how to write programs that read and communicate with the output window but it was too confusing for me  :-[   I was an novice stuck in C+ programming hell.

So I went the EZ route and scripted it in autohotkey.

Anyways, I finally finished up a polished up release version. I'll attach the screenshots.

I'll tread lightly but send me a message if you want to try it out.

Be aware that you will have to edit some of MAME's source code and recompile for the hotkey scripts to work.

Also, on an irrelevant note, check out my revamped cab. Pretty sick eh?

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2011, 08:23:32 am »
but you're making it sound like there's a conspiracy again programmers

Dude, I think we are on the same side.  :cheers: I am sorry you read it that way... that is not at all what I am saying. What I am saying is this:

In my opinion, although I understand the concerns people bring up with this sort of thing (I have read all the threads), I don't think the concerns warrant limiting the development or distribution of such software. I can explain my reasoning more but it would just result in another "wall of text" post about stuff that is not relevant to this thread.

In my opinion, when such debates happened in the past (before my time on these forums), the naysayers won. I would love to see what happens if they didn't when the conversation comes up again.

All that said, I have never been able to figure out compiling, so this particular tool won't be as useful to me. But thanks for making it available, ArcadeRenegade.  ;D

Completed projects: Pac bartop (Plug & Play), 30th Anniversary Pac cab (MAME), Point Blank (PS1), Centipede (arcade hardware- light restore), VS. Super Mario Bros (arcade hardware- light restore) Tetris Cocktail (SNES), Arcade Classics upright (60-in-1, then MAME), Multi-Raiden (arcade hardware). Pac Man vs.(Gamecube),

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2011, 10:36:11 am »
I think the "no nag" patch gets a pass because it doesn't deal with the coins. What, in my mind, gets MAME Devs worried is the whole "money" aspect of such a tool. With it, operators don't have to worry about people thinking the game is broken when they drop a token in the menu, start a game and have zero credits.

The coin management stuff is disliked because it basically serves little purpose than allowing commercial use.

The no-nag stuff is still a problem, you still get idiots like kmhamel here who almost exclusively talk about such patches here and elsewhere and then decide to go on a bug posting rampage on Mametesters with false reports over things already covered by the screens said 'no nag' patches remove.
http://www.mametesters.org/view.php?id=4463

This only serves to waste peoples time, there are only a couple of people doing mametesters, and their time is strictly limited.

The couple of 'please do not do this' items requested by mamedev are all fair and reasonable things to request imho.


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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2011, 11:11:41 am »
Yeahm the mame dev regs, what few of them there are, generally seem reasonable.  Most of them seem aimed at the "don't be a pain in the ass to us" sort of vein.  The no-nag thing isn't discouraged, its distributing MAME with no-nag that is discouraged, from what I understand, so that people don't do exactly what Haze was talking about. 

I think if you had it as a seperate patch, where someone had to compile MAME themselves to use it, it wouldn't be a problem, but if you started distributing builds of MAME with it already included, that would definitely ruffle some feathers.

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2011, 11:45:17 am »
I have read things about Coin Manager and the controversies.
I did not get involve in any discussions.

If someone really want to rig up a machine for commercial/profit use,  they can do it..period.

Even in Advmame in pure DOS could be done.

Remember how the original Machines behave when the power is lost ?

Well it rejects the coins when inserted due to power loss.

All they have to do is use the COIN SOLENOID (forgot the exact name) that is attach in the COIN MECH.

When power is applied, it will let you COIN UP, but when power is lost, it REJECT all coins inserted.

This is done by just applying or removing the voltage applied to the SOLENOID (when you're in the FE,  no power to SOLENOID, when game is selected and executed, Power is restored to the SOLENOID).

Not gonna go in more details. You guys can picture/figure the rest of this BLA BLA BLA BLA....
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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2011, 03:12:03 pm »
but you're making it sound like there's a conspiracy again programmers

Dude, I think we are on the same side.  :cheers: I am sorry you read it that way... that is not at all what I am saying. What I am saying is this:

No, I figured we were on the same side here. But the way I read "haters" is that there was much discouragement from MAME Devs with little to no reason. Just wanted to clarify their derision instead of making them seem "narrow minded" (which is how I associate the slang usage of "haters").

But yeah, we are more or less in agreement.

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2011, 10:08:20 pm »
not working for me, i allready compiled 3 times and im pretty sure im doing it right, i have tested outside the FE and it does not work as well.So i looked at the readme file and i dont understand this
Quote
That should do it. Autohotkey scripts should now work
with your version of MAME if they use their hotkey
codes like this:
Send {Blind} {%Key% Down}
Sleep 50
Send {Blind} {%Key% Up}
So i wonder if i should do somenthing ealse like installing autohotkey or modifiyng somenthing ealse in the mame code. Thanks for any help. Im using mame 130 by te way

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2011, 12:07:07 am »
I have read things about Coin Manager and the controversies.
I did not get involve in any discussions.

If someone really want to rig up a machine for commercial/profit use,  they can do it..period.

Even in Advmame in pure DOS could be done.

Remember how the original Machines behave when the power is lost ?

Well it rejects the coins when inserted due to power loss.

All they have to do is use the COIN SOLENOID (forgot the exact name) that is attach in the COIN MECH.

When power is applied, it will let you COIN UP, but when power is lost, it REJECT all coins inserted.

This is done by just applying or removing the voltage applied to the SOLENOID (when you're in the FE,  no power to SOLENOID, when game is selected and executed, Power is restored to the SOLENOID).

Not gonna go in more details. You guys can picture/figure the rest of this BLA BLA BLA BLA....


Yea, I did exactly what you describe a few years back just for the hell of it.  It worked pretty well, a certain derivative of mame made all the difference.  Not always easy to find coin mechs with the solenoids though.

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2011, 12:26:09 am »
not working for me, i allready compiled 3 times and im pretty sure im doing it right, i have tested outside the FE and it does not work as well.So i looked at the readme file and i dont understand this
Quote
That should do it. Autohotkey scripts should now work
with your version of MAME if they use their hotkey
codes like this:
Send {Blind} {%Key% Down}
Sleep 50
Send {Blind} {%Key% Up}
So i wonder if i should do somenthing ealse like installing autohotkey or modifiyng somenthing ealse in the mame code. Thanks for any help. Im using mame 130 by te way

If I'm not mistaken, AutoHotkey scripts should work with MAME v0.130 if you change the code in %mamesrc%\src\osd\windows\input.c

Quote
#define FORCE_DIRECTINPUT      0
to
Quote
#define FORCE_DIRECTINPUT      1

If that doesn't work try also changing,

Quote
      // initialize RawInput and DirectInput (RawInput first so we can fall back)
      rawinput_init(machine);
      dinput_init(machine);
      win32_init(machine);

to

Quote
      // initialize DirectInput and RawInput (DirectInput first so we can fall back)
      dinput_init(machine);
      rawinput_init(machine);
      win32_init(machine);

The "Send {Blind} {%Key% Down}" code has to do with AutoHotkey scripts; not for MAME. You shouldn't need to install Autohotkey either.

Open notepad and test the hotkeys. Lets say your "Start Game/MAME" keybind is "P" it should be typing " p " into notepad.

Note that most keys (like P1 and P2 start) aren't scripted do anything unless MAME is the active window. Also the Coin_Slot1 and Coin_Slot2 keybinds don't send out any keys.  Therefore, they won't type out anything.
 
What frontend are you using? I've only tested this with MALA.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2011, 12:30:15 am by ArcadeRenegade »

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2011, 11:01:20 am »
Im using hyperspin, and it gives me some problems if im trying to use with it too, but when i try outside the FE it does not work as well, let me download mame .143 source and compile that again, im pretty sure im changin all that needs to be change, so lets hope its just a mame version thing, ill come back with the results.

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2011, 02:18:33 pm »
Im using hyperspin, and it gives me some problems if im trying to use with it too, but when i try outside the FE it does not work as well, let me download mame .143 source and compile that again, im pretty sure im changin all that needs to be change, so lets hope its just a mame version thing, ill come back with the results.

I don't think the problem is on your end. It's my poor scripting  8)

I edited the way hotkeys are sent so they're more compatible with Hyperspin and older versions of MAME.
I'll send you the new version.

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2011, 02:20:56 pm »
You have my full support on this! I sent you a PM. Does this work with GameEx? It's what I use on my cab.

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2011, 03:45:10 pm »
I compiled another version of maame, .143 and still dosnt work. I know this is not something that you have the obligation to do, but here are a couple of thougts:
It should work with and without the front end and it needs to have the avilty to work in the background, as having a fully dedicated mame cabinet with a front end and mame working on windowed mode, kills the arcade experince a bit. Thanks for reading and hope this dosnt die.

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2011, 04:27:40 pm »
I wrote a little program a while ago called CoinDrop which has been updated privately. I don't release it to the public in respect to the MAMEDev wishes. Anyway I've tried to focus the program on coin management for kids rather than make it practical for use in a commercial setting. That is why it has features like limiting credits and game play and inserting credits after x amount of minutes. My personal belief is it's too unreliable to work it in a commercial setting anyway as it's possible to lose credits when you try to insert them when a game isn't ready to accept them and that would piss off customers.

It has some pretty nifty features like the ability to output the number of credits to a Com or Printer Port. It also can insert credits into MAME without the need to compile a custom version.

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2011, 04:36:57 pm »
I don't release it to the public in respect to the MAMEDev wishes.

What does that mean exactly? Just for you or just not posted openly? Because, I think it is awesome and would put it to good use. The 2006 thread ended with "This program is no longer supported. Please do not PM me anymore. I will be locking this thread. Sorry.," so I am assuming the first. If there is a way to obtain it, let me know.
Completed projects: Pac bartop (Plug & Play), 30th Anniversary Pac cab (MAME), Point Blank (PS1), Centipede (arcade hardware- light restore), VS. Super Mario Bros (arcade hardware- light restore) Tetris Cocktail (SNES), Arcade Classics upright (60-in-1, then MAME), Multi-Raiden (arcade hardware). Pac Man vs.(Gamecube),

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2011, 06:39:16 pm »
Well I was about to compile the new version that fixed the compatability issues, then my computer had to plummet 15 feet off the porch. No joke.

Ill see if I can retrieve the source code from the hard drive.

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2011, 06:49:31 pm »
nothing wrong with releasing stuff like this i say, most dodgy ops are using XX in 1's nowadays anyway.

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2011, 07:03:19 pm »
nothing wrong with releasing stuff like this i say, most dodgy ops are using XX in 1's nowadays anyway.

Which are based on this kind of stuff..

With the advent of MAME compiler, I'm even against people really posting source patches for the nonag stuff as it means you're more or less distributing binaries due to compiling becoming a complete no-brainer.

Ask any member of the development team and you'll get the same response, especially over coin management stuff.  That response is 'please don't do that', which is what some members are being respectful towards here.

We're not asking a lot.

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2011, 07:07:47 pm »
 that sucks....hope you get all of your info, not just that, unless youll had nothing important. good luck. 
Well I was about to compile the new version that fixed the compatability issues, then my computer had to plummet 15 feet off the porch. No joke.

Ill see if I can retrieve the source code from the hard drive.
:banghead:

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2011, 07:09:58 pm »
Thanks for making it clear the POV of MAMEDev Haze. Saves me explaining it or getting into debates about right and wrong. I don't release CoinDrop publicly because MAMEDev don't like it. Simple as that.

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #29 on: September 14, 2011, 07:14:53 pm »
Thanks for making it clear the POV of MAMEDev Haze. Saves me explaining it or getting into debates about right and wrong. I don't release CoinDrop publicly because MAMEDev don't like it. Simple as that.

So, that is a no, coindrop is totally unavailable?
Completed projects: Pac bartop (Plug & Play), 30th Anniversary Pac cab (MAME), Point Blank (PS1), Centipede (arcade hardware- light restore), VS. Super Mario Bros (arcade hardware- light restore) Tetris Cocktail (SNES), Arcade Classics upright (60-in-1, then MAME), Multi-Raiden (arcade hardware). Pac Man vs.(Gamecube),

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #30 on: September 14, 2011, 07:54:56 pm »
Thanks for making it clear the POV of MAMEDev Haze. Saves me explaining it or getting into debates about right and wrong. I don't release CoinDrop publicly because MAMEDev don't like it. Simple as that.

So, that is a no, coindrop is totally unavailable?
:cheers: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #31 on: September 14, 2011, 09:52:54 pm »
Thanks for making it clear the POV of MAMEDev Haze. Saves me explaining it or getting into debates about right and wrong. I don't release CoinDrop publicly because MAMEDev don't like it. Simple as that.

So, that is a no, coindrop is totally unavailable?
:cheers: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

Nevermind.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2011, 09:55:05 pm by thefearsomefearful »
Completed projects: Pac bartop (Plug & Play), 30th Anniversary Pac cab (MAME), Point Blank (PS1), Centipede (arcade hardware- light restore), VS. Super Mario Bros (arcade hardware- light restore) Tetris Cocktail (SNES), Arcade Classics upright (60-in-1, then MAME), Multi-Raiden (arcade hardware). Pac Man vs.(Gamecube),

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #32 on: September 15, 2011, 05:39:08 am »
that sucks....hope you get all of your info, not just that, unless youll had nothing important. good luck. 
Well I was about to compile the new version that fixed the compatability issues, then my computer had to plummet 15 feet off the porch. No joke.

Ill see if I can retrieve the source code from the hard drive.
:banghead:

I fixed my computer and compiled the new version that should work with Hyperspin and MAME 0.130

I'll send you the new version.

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #33 on: September 15, 2011, 02:14:32 pm »
Thanks for making it clear the POV of MAMEDev Haze. Saves me explaining it or getting into debates about right and wrong. I don't release CoinDrop publicly because MAMEDev don't like it. Simple as that.

What he said. 

The MAME community gives us a whole heck of a lot to play with and they really only have three rules for us to follow:

1.  If you publically release a mame variant, please release the source as well.
2.  Don't try to sell MAME, a MAME variant, or include MAME with a commercial product.
3.  Don't modify MAME in such a way that it would make it easier to run on said commercial product and otherwise offer no real benefit. 

For me, this has always seemed reasonable, and I try to go by it. 


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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2011, 03:47:02 pm »
Thanks for making it clear the POV of MAMEDev Haze. Saves me explaining it or getting into debates about right and wrong. I don't release CoinDrop publicly because MAMEDev don't like it. Simple as that.

What he said. 

The MAME community gives us a whole heck of a lot to play with and they really only have three rules for us to follow:

1.  If you publically release a mame variant, please release the source as well.
2.  Don't try to sell MAME, a MAME variant, or include MAME with a commercial product.
3.  Don't modify MAME in such a way that it would make it easier to run on said commercial product and otherwise offer no real benefit. 

For me, this has always seemed reasonable, and I try to go by it. 



Well if it's any reconciliation, people can't get it to work anyways. >.<

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2011, 03:56:46 pm »
3.  Don't modify MAME in such a way that it would make it easier to run on said commercial product and otherwise offer no real benefit.  
I'm not trying to stoke fires or anything, but that's the part that I am foggy on. Maybe somebody could clarify what a "real benefit" exactly means. I guess I personally see a bunch of real benefits to having some sort of coin management in the realm of personal use. From tournament playing, parental control and adding ease of use for people who are not familiar with the SW to name a few.

Obviously, front ends are the biggest item that would make commercial use viable. It makes sense that it is an exception because of it's obvious benefit, but if someone dastardly enough to set up a commercial machine tries...they could do so with only the frontend and Mame. All I see coin management is slightly polishing it to look and feel more commercial allowing coins to be put in up front, but it really doesn't do anything to prevent access to the frontend function or booting games without a coin being entered.

Again, I am only asking because my train of thought does not bring me to say this is dangerous software (Unless it really does disallow game booting function without coins inserted). I also understand that the Devs are only trying to protect Mame from misuse and legal issues, and I respect that those people who created this kind of software are acting in interest of the wishes of the Devs. Just looking for clarification.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2011, 04:08:52 pm by Vigo »

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #36 on: September 15, 2011, 06:03:16 pm »
There's no real benefit because quarters aren't required to run MAME.

If a user presses the "insert coin" key while in the FE what does it matter?  They are virtual quarters anyway.  Likewise if you are allowing users to literally insert quarters.  Well you are the "operator" you can open teh coin door and get them back for you.  (If you are charging in your own personal home btw.. then you are violating MAME's liscense in terms of not making a profit off of mame.)

The easiest solution to this is to map the coin 1 input to the same button as start 1 and so on....  Then when a user presses start a quarter is inserted and they don't have to worry about it. 

Now is having a working coin door nice for nostalgic purposes?  Absolutely.  Is it particularly practical or even necessary in your own personal gameroom?  Not really


On the flip of the coin (pun intended) can a coin manager be extremely dangerous when it comes to piracy and bootleg arcade machines running mame.  Absolutely! 

Most FE authors (myself included, back in the day)  purposefully leave out a few things like coin managment.  This is specifically to prevent people from selling mame cabs running our fes (which rips us off personally) that are running mame (which rips off the mame team). 

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #37 on: September 16, 2011, 01:38:42 am »
There's no real benefit because quarters aren't required to run MAME.

Well...arcade cabinets, arcade controls and frontends are not required to run Mame either. I don't see them being frowned upon. Not to mention that coin management SW is not what allows mame to take quarters to begin with. Not making it a point to argue, but it's still unclear to me the distinction between why having additional coin support is not a real benefit to the personal user but most everything else in the hobby is. By that train of thought, why is LED lighting support not rampaged upon? It's entire purpose is to only look cool, and would enable a commercial machine to be more attractive to the passer by. Of course, I see both LED light support and coin management SW as a real benefit to the user. Or are we not talking about real benefit to the user?

:dunno Whatever it is, I guess I just see this a real benefit while perhaps the Devs do not. Of course I am not saying the Devs are wrong, I am just saying that I just don't understand it yet.

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #38 on: September 16, 2011, 01:55:36 am »
Most FE authors (myself included, back in the day)  purposefully leave out a few things like coin managment.  This is specifically to prevent people from selling mame cabs running our fes (which rips us off personally) that are running mame (which rips off the mame team). 


I understand your reasoning for not wanting to have your or any FE ripped off for commercial gain, but I don't understand how not having coin management is the linch pin that stops people from using a FE for those purposes.

Lets say for example I am a devious gent who sets up two commercial machines A and B. Let's say A has a FE that does not detect a coin entered, and B is a FE that detects a coin entered and translates it to Mame upon boot.

Now for machine A, I would have an instruction card that would say "here is how to Pick a game blah blah here is how you enter and leave, once game is fully loaded insert coin."

For Machine B, I would have a similar card, but would have to say, "Heres how to pick a game. blah blah here is how you enter and leave, you may insert coin before or during your selection."

I guess I don't see how that is a dealbreaker that allows commercial use on machine B and not A. Am I missing something about the functionality of this SW?  ???

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Re: So I made a Coin Manager...
« Reply #39 on: September 16, 2011, 02:55:04 am »
I can't speak for the mamedevs, but my feeling is that it's not so much that a lack of coin management software would be a dealbreaker for someone wanting to use mame commercially, but it's maybe just the attitude of "why make it easier for them?"

It's kind of like locking your house door. It's not gonna keep out someone who is hell bent on getting in, but why make it easier for them?

My $0.02.