RIP Amy Winehouse

[Thenasty]

what shame at age 27 and lots of money.

I wish I was 27 with lots of money.

Imagine all the CABs I would buy for my collection and enjoy it for a long time.

And when I die at around 150, I want to make one of the cabs to be my coffin.

[CCM]

She was a great talent, but she completely wasted it all...  I find it hard to fell sorry for people like her.

[Howard_Casto]

Agreed. 

When you write a song about refusing to go to rehab even though your friends say you should then you know that your time is limited.

[Xiaou2]

The black and white attitude really is sickening.
Have some Compassion for your fellow humans.  People deal with you and all Your imperfections.  Have been since you were crying & wetting your training pants at the family diner.

 Its sad to see a human fail to the point of meeting their end.

 Its arguable that the very reason why such people are so talented, is their inner torment.

 Michael Jackson was forced as a child to practice over and over again for hours, after school.   No interaction with other kids, no getting to be a kid.  The results?  His singing and dancing were on a level not many could touch.... but inside, he was a twisted mess.

 I dont know Amys troubles... but Obviously, she had them.  Maybe her dad or someone else molested her as a child.

 Its easy to sit on the sidelines and point and say "Id never do that.  Id never allow that to happen.  Id never feel that way."..etc.  But you have never walked a day in their shoes, let alone a decades worth...


 All the money in the world cant buy lasting Happiness.  Cant mend a broken heart, nor a broken soul. Honestly Realize this, and then start working on Yourself, to be a better, stronger, person.

 Dont be jealous of her. Shes never got to really enjoy life.
 (Jealousy is self poison)

 Dont get so caught up in wishing you were somewhere else, doing something else, living some other life.  Learn to enjoy and appreciate what you have now, where you are now. Its only then, will you ever really start to understand true peace and happiness. 

 It does not mean you have to settle for something.  But to at least be content. If you really want extreme changes, know you will have to put forth extreme efforts.

[danny_galaga]

The black and white attitude really is sickening.
Have some Compassion for your fellow humans.  People deal with you and all Your imperfections.  Have been since you were crying & wetting your training pants at the family diner.

 Its sad to see a human fail to the point of meeting their end.

 Its arguable that the very reason why such people are so talented, is their inner torment.

 Michael Jackson was forced as a child to practice over and over again for hours, after school.   No interaction with other kids, no getting to be a kid.  The results?  His singing and dancing were on a level not many could touch.... but inside, he was a twisted mess.

 I dont know Amys troubles... but Obviously, she had them.  Maybe her dad or someone else molested her as a child.

 Its easy to sit on the sidelines and point and say "Id never do that.  Id never allow that to happen.  Id never feel that way."..etc.  But you have never walked a day in their shoes, let alone a decades worth...


 All the money in the world cant buy lasting Happiness.  Cant mend a broken heart, nor a broken soul. Honestly Realize this, and then start working on Yourself, to be a better, stronger, person.

 Dont be jealous of her. Shes never got to really enjoy life.
 (Jealousy is self poison)

 Dont get so caught up in wishing you were somewhere else, doing something else, living some other life.  Learn to enjoy and appreciate what you have now, where you are now. Its only then, will you ever really start to understand true peace and happiness. 

 It does not mean you have to settle for something.  But to at least be content. If you really want extreme changes, know you will have to put forth extreme efforts.

Holy crap! I agree with you totally!

[DaOld Man]

The black and white attitude really is sickening.
Have some Compassion for your fellow humans.  People deal with you and all Your imperfections.  Have been since you were crying & wetting your training pants at the family diner.

 Its sad to see a human fail to the point of meeting their end.

 Its arguable that the very reason why such people are so talented, is their inner torment.

 Michael Jackson was forced as a child to practice over and over again for hours, after school.   No interaction with other kids, no getting to be a kid.  The results?  His singing and dancing were on a level not many could touch.... but inside, he was a twisted mess.

 I dont know Amys troubles... but Obviously, she had them.  Maybe her dad or someone else molested her as a child.

 Its easy to sit on the sidelines and point and say "Id never do that.  Id never allow that to happen.  Id never feel that way."..etc.  But you have never walked a day in their shoes, let alone a decades worth...


 All the money in the world cant buy lasting Happiness.  Cant mend a broken heart, nor a broken soul. Honestly Realize this, and then start working on Yourself, to be a better, stronger, person.

 Dont be jealous of her. Shes never got to really enjoy life.
 (Jealousy is self poison)

 Dont get so caught up in wishing you were somewhere else, doing something else, living some other life.  Learn to enjoy and appreciate what you have now, where you are now. Its only then, will you ever really start to understand true peace and happiness. 

 It does not mean you have to settle for something.  But to at least be content. If you really want extreme changes, know you will have to put forth extreme efforts.

Amen Brother!

[CCM]

The black and white attitude really is sickening.
Have some Compassion for your fellow humans.  People deal with you and all Your imperfections.  Have been since you were crying & wetting your training pants at the family diner.

 

Was this aimed at me or Howard?  Because my family never owned a diner.

[AtomSmasher]

It's sad that she couldn't get herself clean, but here's an excerpt from another website that I have a hard time disagreeing with:

She had every chance in the world to get clean, to get off drugs, to save herself. She chose not too. People begged her. She ignored them. This wasn’t some poor girl with no options. She had every option. She had access to the best care in the world. This isn’t someone who made a mistake or two or twenty. She was an addict and she thought it was cute. She bragged about it in her biggest hit. If she didn’t give a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- about her life why should I?

[RayB]

When you write a song about refusing to go to rehab even though your friends say you should then you know that your time is limited.

Yeah, you think she would know, know, know.

[Xiaou2]

If she didn’t give a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- about her life why should I?

 Re-read my post.

 The whole problem IS that show didnt care enough about her life.  The question is Why?  No matter how much people tried to help, it didnt matter.  Doesnt that seem odd to you?

 If for example, she was sexually abused as a child... that event could shatter her entire personality.  Which is exactly the kind of thing that keeps them from wanting to feel, feeling normal, feeling trustworthy, and much more.  The addictions and damages done, compound things even worse.

 There are a lot of people who dont want to go to rehab.  Part of it is the time that it takes. Part is the prison like setting. Part is that they cant be with their loved ones (+ intimacy), and part of it is being scared out of their minds about whats going to take place.  

 Its obvious that a lot of these people are drowning in substances to Avoid confronting deep rooted Pain.  Its very difficult to to tell someone that in order to make them better, they first have to dig out the bullet in their leg, without anything given to dull the pain.

 If it were so easy to help and cure addiction, then you wouldnt see half of the related incidents plastered all over the news.  People have the hardest time changing the simplest personal habits, and dont like to face the truths... and thats people who are not deeply wounded or truly addicted.

 If you dont have compassion for your fellow man or woman, why should anyone care about you, at the time you need people the most?

 I think thats a huge factor in the kinds of selfish responses we have here.  People who are loners, self centered, dont have others to help them out...  tend to feel like everyone should be as strong as them... and that there is simply no excuses, mercy, or compassion... because there was/is none given to them.

 Jealousy of love and support given from others?

 Btw - If you desire more love and support in your lives, you have to give it out to others.  By having a compassion-less black and white attitude towards others, theres no way you are going to get love and support in your life.

 As said, Jealousy is a self destruction/poison.

[AtomSmasher]

If you dont have compassion for your fellow man or woman, why should anyone care about you, at the time you need people the most?

I have all kinds of compassion for my fellow man and woman, which is why I wouldn't say those things if she was still alive.  Now that she's gone, theres no point in wallowing in sorrow for her.  Sure, she might have had a hard life, but guess what, a lot of people have a hard life and turn out fine (from the stories you've told, you should know this better then most), and most of those people who turn out fine don't have a boatload of cash and tons of friends to support them.  She had everything going for her and showed zero interest in bettering herself even when everyone around her begged her to, and now that she's gone theres no reason to feel sorry for her.

Sometimes your purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.

[Howard_Casto]

I just believe in self-responsiblity. 

If this was a woman that was abused, poverty striken, and didn't have friends or family trying to help her then my opinion of her death would be wildly different.  When you have that kind of money and people are trying to help you with your problem, you refuse and then you die because of it then it's your falut and yours alone.  I never like to see anybody die, but sometimes you get what is coming to you. 

Religion is the worst cop-out for self-responsibility btw.  When someone does something bad they did it...  it wasn't the devil it was them.  Likewise when a doctor saves your life it is the incredibly medical staff that helped you, it wasn't a miracle.  This can be applied to communially good and bad actions as well. 

Life isn't black and white but when you understand that everyone is responsible for their own actions and vices then a whole hell of a lot of gray is washed away. 

[Xiaou2]

I just believe in self-responsiblity.

and didn't have friends or family trying to help

Those two statements conflict.
 
 If you believe in self responsibility, then in a way, you dont believe anyone should help you.  In the way in which you have responded, that indeed is the way you view things.

 And because you are strong enough to be able to handle yourself without help from others... it works just fine 'for you'.  And is very easy to cast the opposing view onto others less fortunate in 'internal strength'.

She had everything going for her

 As Ive said before, it doesnt matter if you have all the money (or friends) in the world.  If you are internally a mess... everything will turn for the worst.

 My uncle is a Alcoholic.  Though, unlike Amy, he is verbally / mentally abusive to others... which is much much harder to forgive.  His father drank himself to death, and was also abusive.  His mother, allows him to act out in rage, and lets him do whatever he desires without a single word.  And because of this, his behavior is that of a beastly nasty 7yr old, in a 50 yr old body.

 However, on the flip side... hes not a murderer or bank robber. He also helps out friends who are in need.

 The stuff that effected me, was a fraction that was laid upon him and his brother and sister.  And because of that, its understandable that I was much more able to pull myself out of the hole... where they have not been able to do so.  Its not an excuse... but its a realization, that when the hole is 3000 more feet deep... some just may never see the light of day.

 IMOP, its the system that fails these people, far more than themselves.

 If dangerous & illegal behavior is found... mandatory rehab, anger management, psychological sessions..etc.. should be required & enforced.   A mere fine and finger wagging isnt going to change things.  Which is why drunk drivers are going to continue to end up taking innocent peoples lives.


 Anyway, some of you may have heard some of the twisted things I had done as a kid. The way I responded... was black as could be.  If some people hadnt saw past that, saw my potentials, loved me unconditionally, & for the little bit of good in me... rather than the darkness that I contained at that time... I might have become a crazed monster, rotting in prison.  Luckily, not everyone was as harsh a judge as some here... and I was given the chance to grow into a better person (which took like +10yrs of hard fought efforts)... rather than be stoned to hell immediately.


 Im not saying Cry for these people.  But to rip a snide harsh comment and judgment about them, is just not right IMOP.

Edit:

 Additionally, I dont believe I ever mentioned Religion. Nor did anyone else.  And while I do not agree with much of organized religion, I also feel that forceful anti-religion can be just as.. if not much more, messed up.  You obviously have an Axe to grind when you make it a point to bring it up.

 As for life, its more than black and white, or even gray.  Its a Rainbow of colors.  Of Infinite possibilities.

[kalars123]

 IMOP, its the system that fails these people, far more than themselves.

 If dangerous & illegal behavior is found... mandatory rehab, anger management, psychological sessions..etc.. should be required & enforced.   A mere fine and finger wagging isnt going to change things.  Which is why drunk drivers are going to continue to end up taking innocent peoples lives.

I wasn't going to post on this because drug addiction is a very personal subject for me, but saying the system is at fault? That just strait pisses me off, there isn't anything wrong with the "system" the "system" works just fine the problem is SELF-ACCOUNTABILITY, I have been through the "system" I have had several friends that have been through the "system", in 8/10 cases it's not the "system" that fails it's the person not wanting to take responsibility for their actions or just not giving a crap. Amy Winehouse is of the later group, she just straight didn't care about herself or anyone else that was affected by her actions I will shed no tear for her nor will I grieve her in the slightest.  IN FACT I will probably use her as an example for my children and tell them this is what happens to you when you don't take care about yourself and take responsibility.

Some friends I have had and lost that went through the system just didn't care they wanted to do what they wanted to do, regardless of the consequences, who are you to say that the "system" failed them. They failed them selves and while I will and do grieve for their family's, I do not and will never grieve for them they got what they were asking for.

[Xiaou2]

Its obvious you are angered at losing them, so maybe you are taking it out on anyone who has a problem.

 I never said that it was the Systems fault. However, the system does not work well, and does share some things to blame.

 I said to have compassion for those not strong "internally" as ourselves.

 Just because you know the consequences of actions, does not make you strong enough to overcome them.

 As I said, if it were So EASY, then there wouldnt be so much loss would there?

 And as I said before... which I believe you skipped right over... is that without a much more harsh penalty system & much better therapy, people are going to be running over others in drunk driving accidents.  IE: If someone gets 2 DUI's in a years time, there should be a forced evaluation, with frequent checkups, and possibly limited driving privileges.

 Currently I know how bad the system is, because both my uncle and my father have evaded it for nearly their entire lives.   And when they did get into it, it was a joke.

 My father, an ex-postal worker, was making threats of blowing up the building with pipe bombs, in his past. Hes was arrested in florida for something, and with one legal slip up, he was able to escape evaluation / treatment.  It was only after he came back up here, that he was arrested again for something different, that they finally had him evaluated and forced into a few programs. 30 yrs way too late.
And had they dealt with his father... maybe he would not have died at the age of 35 from liver poisoning... as well as possibly taking away the kids much earlier, or kicking the him out, sparing the kids from a life of torture, which ultimately ruined them.

 Good for you that the system did work for you.   But sadly, not so good for those it did not work for... and those who are never ever forced to be in any system.  And yeah, reckless people need to be forced into these programs... Unless we just take away their licenses on the 2nd DUI.

[danny_galaga]

From my own experience I can say this: I used to date a woman who was an ex-junkie. I learnt a lot from her. From about the age of 11 her father abused her until at 13 she had enough and ran away from home, ending up on the streets. First marijuana, then heroin came into her life. Since she was smart and well educated to that point, she got her supplies by selling, rather than being a hooker. Finally, her mum discovered the awful truth and came and rescued her (she had moved to another state) after divorcing her husband. Next 20 years were a real roller coaster for her. For instance she got her ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- together and got a well paying job. What sort of job did she get? Currency trader in London, in the 80's. I can't think of a time or place or occupation where drugs were more readily available, can you? Point is, she wasn't doing it to just be cool. It was to mask the pain of her childhood. Amy, who knows? Who can say if she was traumatised by something or not. Who are we to judge?

I am saddened though that there is all this talk about one person, yet hardly anything about the Norwegian gun spree. Is there even a thread here?

[Malenko]

The Macho Man dying was a tragedy , Amy Winehouse dying early was an enviably.

X2, wheres you compassionate posts for everyone else (famous) who died? I'm not happy she's dead but to say its unexpected is ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---. She chose to do what she did, and these are the consequences of those choices. Don't even bring up rehab and all the other mess, if she wasn't dumb enough to try heroine the first time, she wouldn't have needed help.

[Mikezilla]

If you dont have compassion for your fellow man or woman, why should anyone care about you, at the time you need people the most?

I have all kinds of compassion for my fellow man and woman, which is why I wouldn't say those things if she was still alive.  Now that she's gone, theres no point in wallowing in sorrow for her.  Sure, she might have had a hard life, but guess what, a lot of people have a hard life and turn out fine (from the stories you've told, you should know this better then most), and most of those people who turn out fine don't have a boatload of cash and tons of friends to support them.  She had everything going for her and showed zero interest in bettering herself even when everyone around her begged her to, and now that she's gone theres no reason to feel sorry for her.

Sometimes your purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.

I agree with Atomsmasher. I didnt really know who she was, so I did some research on it, and you guys pretty much said it all: she had a hit song 4 years ago about mocking people about telling her she should go to rehab, then she OD's. Gimme a break.  I dont respect people that die of drug over doses. Its a choice. I dont care what kind of drug it is, it could be crack, cocaine, heroine, or even painkillers and prescription drugs. Part of being a "compassionate person" (Im looking at you X2) is realizing what kind of impact your passing would have on other peoples lives. Its just kind of annoying, all these people posting stuff on Facebook about how great of artist she was, and Lady Gaga said she "changed music forever". Really? Changed music forever from some ---smurfy--- pop song from 4 years ago. The ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- people say when people die...

[CheffoJeffo]

I just believe in self-responsiblity.

and didn't have friends or family trying to help

Those two statements conflict.
 
 If you believe in self responsibility, then in a way, you dont believe anyone should help you.  In the way in which you have responded, that indeed is the way you view things.

 And because you are strong enough to be able to handle yourself without help from others... it works just fine 'for you'.  And is very easy to cast the opposing view onto others less fortunate in 'internal strength'.

Actually, they don't conflict at all and, in fact, the reality of why it is so hard for people to overcome things like addiction, despite all of the help of people around them, is that people don't take that responsibility for themselves and their actions. Having love and support around you is not what overcomes addiction -- that requires an internally-generated response and commitment to get clean. Love and support can make it easier to cope with and can be instrumental in getting people to the point where they take responsibility for themselves, but on their own are not enough to overcome addiction.

Amy's passing is sad and somewhat tragic given the support and love that she was shown, but she was the only one who could save herself.

Don't be mean -- we don't have to be mean. Remember -- no matter where you go, there you are.

[Vigo]

If you dont have compassion for your fellow man or woman, why should anyone care about you, at the time you need people the most?

I have all kinds of compassion for my fellow man and woman, which is why I wouldn't say those things if she was still alive.  Now that she's gone, theres no point in wallowing in sorrow for her.  Sure, she might have had a hard life, but guess what, a lot of people have a hard life and turn out fine (from the stories you've told, you should know this better then most), and most of those people who turn out fine don't have a boatload of cash and tons of friends to support them.  She had everything going for her and showed zero interest in bettering herself even when everyone around her begged her to, and now that she's gone theres no reason to feel sorry for her.

Sometimes your purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.

I agree with Atomsmasher. I didnt really know who she was, so I did some research on it, and you guys pretty much said it all: she had a hit song 4 years ago about mocking people about telling her she should go to rehab, then she OD's. Gimme a break.  I dont respect people that die of drug over doses. Its a choice. I dont care what kind of drug it is, it could be crack, cocaine, heroine, or even painkillers and prescription drugs. Part of being a "compassionate person" (Im looking at you X2) is realizing what kind of impact your passing would have on other peoples lives. Its just kind of annoying, all these people posting stuff on Facebook about how great of artist she was, and Lady Gaga said she "changed music forever". Really? Changed music forever from some ---smurfy--- pop song from 4 years ago. The ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- people say when people die...

Agreed 100%. It's pretty refreshing that most people here still believe in personal responsibility. I hate hearing the BS about how "society let her down" or that the "systems were not in place" to save her. At the end of the day, if someone kills themselves with drugs, they are the ones at fault. Family and friends and fluffy unicorns might make rehab easier, but it still remains that nobody will ever turn their life around until they realize that they are solely responsible for their actions and the future they make of it.

On a side note, my boss decided that today is Amy Winehouse day, and she will be looping her amy winehouse CD all day.  I will be working with my headphones on.

[Mikezilla]

If you dont have compassion for your fellow man or woman, why should anyone care about you, at the time you need people the most?

I have all kinds of compassion for my fellow man and woman, which is why I wouldn't say those things if she was still alive.  Now that she's gone, theres no point in wallowing in sorrow for her.  Sure, she might have had a hard life, but guess what, a lot of people have a hard life and turn out fine (from the stories you've told, you should know this better then most), and most of those people who turn out fine don't have a boatload of cash and tons of friends to support them.  She had everything going for her and showed zero interest in bettering herself even when everyone around her begged her to, and now that she's gone theres no reason to feel sorry for her.

Sometimes your purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.

I agree with Atomsmasher. I didnt really know who she was, so I did some research on it, and you guys pretty much said it all: she had a hit song 4 years ago about mocking people about telling her she should go to rehab, then she OD's. Gimme a break.  I dont respect people that die of drug over doses. Its a choice. I dont care what kind of drug it is, it could be crack, cocaine, heroine, or even painkillers and prescription drugs. Part of being a "compassionate person" (Im looking at you X2) is realizing what kind of impact your passing would have on other peoples lives. Its just kind of annoying, all these people posting stuff on Facebook about how great of artist she was, and Lady Gaga said she "changed music forever". Really? Changed music forever from some ---smurfy--- pop song from 4 years ago. The ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- people say when people die...

Agreed 100%. It's pretty refreshing that most people here still believe in personal responsibility. I hate hearing the BS about how "society let her down" or that the "systems were not in place" to save her. At the end of the day, if someone kills themselves with drugs, they are the ones at fault. Family and friends and fluffy unicorns might make rehab easier, but it still remains that nobody will ever turn their life around until they realize that they are solely responsible for their actions and the future they make of it.

On a side note, my boss decided that today is Amy Winehouse day, and she will be looping her amy winehouse CD all day.  I will be working with my headphones on.

Rock on Vigo. 

Dear god. I hope the headphones are enough to drown out that crap.

[Vigo]

All I can say is thank God for Metal!

[saint]

Amy's passing is sad and somewhat tragic given the support and love that she was shown, but she was the only one who could save herself.

Don't be mean -- we don't have to be mean. Remember -- no matter where you go, there you are.

Best post of the thread. Mean people suck.

[Hoopz]

This thread hits home for me today.  I found out last night that a good friend had passed from leukemia.  He was diagnosed with it in March, went into the hospital about 7 weeks ago, and passed yesterday.  It's a very, very rare form that about 10 Americans a year die from.  He was scheduled for a bone marrow transplant from a brother who was a 100% match.  Sadly, the doctors couldn't get him stable enough to receive it.

When I stop and think about this man who I doubt anyone could say a negative thing about and how he lived his life in the face of cancer then I compare it to how Amy lived her life, I'm saddened for both but I only feel sympathy for my friend's family.  Nothing he did caused the cancer to inflict him and he kept saying that life was good as it took his life.  Contrast that with someone who lived a lifestyle that can only be called reckless and dangerous.  There is nothing positive about what she was doing to herself and she was intelligent enough to know it.  Regardless of whatever people want to think how she grew up or what may have happened to her, she made decisions that were selfish based on what she wanted to do instead of what was best for her.  

Both are tragedies, but at the end of the day when I hug my daughters and put them in bed, I know that I want them to emulate only one of those two people's actions and behaviors.

[Vigo]

My, Gosh! I am so sorry Hoopz. From the way you speak of him, he must have been an incredible person.

It really puts into perspective how incredibly valuable life is, and how the tragedy with Amy Winehouse is how she wasted something so incredibly valuable as her life and devastated her family and friends in doing so. Tragic waste.

[Mikezilla]

I am sorry Hoopz, I had a friend die from cancer, so I know what its like. As Vigo stated, he was obviously an amazing individual to be so impacted by his passing.

That drives my point even farther home about drug addicts.

On a side note, what were you listening to Vigo? I love metal! Just got the new In Flames CD at comic con for 10 bucks! 

[Vigo]

In Flames? I got a feeling you take your metal music much more seriously than your average Metallica fan. 

I'm just pretty proud I have heard of In Flames. Well, I was only just listening to some Rammstein. To be honest I haven't spend much time searching for new/non-mainstream metal bands, but maybe I should. My music searching has been lurking around listening to lo-fi and indie rock lately. Just trying to find some unadulterated good music. I've always search European music as well, usually British rock...but I am definitely staying away from Amy Winehouse music.

It's such an effort to find good music, and I tend to be pretty eclectic.

[hypernova]

I'm still trying to figure out why she was so famous in the first place.  She sung songs of a genre that is dying out, more or less.  They spoke of her like she was a savior for that music style.  Yet, the only song I ever heard about was the rehab song.

Like some in here, it's a shame she died, but she did it to herself.  She's was an adult, and had nobody to blame but herself in the end.  I personally find it hard to have compassion for people like her.  And we can't speculate as to why she was addicted.  Unless facts come out as to her past and such, it's silly to assume molestations or whatever occurred.

[popple]

Hey,
Yeah it's a shame but instead of shedding a tear for someone who had every chance to kick the rubbish she was injecting you should save the tears for those who never even got the support to kick the habit. I mean those who you or I don't know the names of.

[saint]

My 2 bits:

I can feel compassion for someone while still believing they have dug their own grave. I don't have a limited supply of it that can only be doled out to a few people. I don't know what brought her to self destruction, but even though it was clearly self destruction it's sad to see. I've never understood "it's their fault so I won't feel sorry for them."

[Xiaou2]

Both are tragedies, but at the end of the day when I hug my daughters and put them in bed, I know that I want them to emulate only one of those two people's actions and behaviors.

 I am sorry for your losses.

 However, when you think about it, your friend... even while knowing he was going to probably die, had succeeded where most people fail.  He had learned to appreciate the precious gift of life in all its glory.

 Yes, its very sad he had to leave so early, and even unfair.  However, his level of enlightenment and enjoyment of life as a result of his views, were something that someone like Amy never had... hence her pretty much intentional suicide.

 If I pass early, I dont want others to pity me.  As I too, am much like your friend.  I have learned to love myself, and love life... where as once I was the very much the opposite.   I could lose everything I have tomorrow, and while admittedly disappointed, would still manage to take a nice breath of air and consider it a gift.   Out of all the things Ive done & accomplished in life, that is the thing I value the most. The only thing that really matters.  I could pass tomorrow, and feel satisfied.

 But people like Amy, who have no real clue... are trapped inside their own black tornado's.  They cant see past their walls, cant hear anyone clearly, cant experience life in a positive way.  They hence do not value it.   Its these people who I feel much more sadness for. They are lost souls.

 And as much as you see me argue with some of the local trolls here.. its those very people whom I also feel the most sadness for.  And whom I hope that someday, will be able to break free, and attain higher enlightenment. (they of all people, need it the most)

 While Im not a person of religion (Im spiritual, but do not follow any religion)... one thing that I recall hearing that was profound to this conversation... was a story about Jesus spending time talking to some woman who wasnt exactly proper.  All these holy-rollers who were devoted and doing all the right things, were verbally upset that he spent so much time with her, calling her a wretch not worthy of anyones time or efforts.  Basically, they were condemning her.  Jesus was angered, and verbally and said that was the wrong attitude to have.

 Jesus felt that it was far more important to spend time with people who needed it most, rather than those who were already well off.  Hed spend time and talked to anyone, from thieves to prostitutes.  Enjoying their company, but also hoping to instill a seed of good.. of 'love' in them. An internal strength that would grow, that would elevate them to be better.

 Weather you believe in Jesus or the story itself, is irrelevant.  The story makes it mark in the truth of the heart.

[CheffoJeffo]

And as much as you see me argue with some of the local trolls here.. its those very people whom I also feel the most sadness for.  And whom I hope that someday, will be able to break free, and attain higher enlightenment. (they of all people, need it the most)

To my mind, the person who is quickest to place arbitrary labels on others, without knowing them or ever even approaching the depth of their lives, is the one who should be pitied the most.

Sealed with a curse as sharp as a knife. Doomed is your soul and damned is your life.

[Xiaou2]

If I act out as a troll, I expect to be thought of and called a troll.   I dont know why anyone would argue that point.

 Btw, Keep your curses to yourself.  They wont work on me.

[Vigo]

If I act out as a troll, I expect to be thought of and called a troll.   I dont know why anyone would argue that point.

Because you are the one doing the labeling and calling these people trolls. You are passing judgement on others, yet you claim to be more highly enlightened than them. Just because you expect others to label you a troll if you were in that situation does not justify that you call them a troll now.

You should take a look at the story you cited of Jesus and the woman again. The point wasn't about Jesus feeling sad that the woman didn't reach higher enlightenment or break free of her ways, rather, the point was that Jesus simply saw her as a human life. He did not label her, but befriended her and wanted that others would not see her as that label either. He was upset that people who saw themselves as virtuous were in essence calling her a skank.

I'm definitely not an enlightened and philosophical man, but I think that when you label and judge a person without knowing them, you are falling victim to the same kind of judgmental attitude that you are preaching against.

[danny_galaga]

My 2 bits:

I can feel compassion for someone while still believing they have dug their own grave. I don't have a limited supply of it that can only be doled out to a few people. I don't know what brought her to self destruction, but even though it was clearly self destruction it's sad to see. I've never understood "it's their fault so I won't feel sorry for them."

+1. I must admit when Kurt Cobain topped himself, I didn't feel sorry for him at all. But I've changed some since then...

[CheffoJeffo]

Btw, Keep your curses to yourself.  They wont work on me.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy.

[Hoopz]

Channeling Tommy again or someone else?  I think I've lost track.

[Mikezilla]

If I act out as a troll, I expect to be thought of and called a troll.   I dont know why anyone would argue that point.

Because you are the one doing the labeling and calling these people trolls. You are passing judgement on others, yet you claim to be more highly enlightened than them. Just because you expect others to label you a troll if you were in that situation does not justify that you call them a troll now.

You should take a look at the story you cited of Jesus and the woman again. The point wasn't about Jesus feeling sad that the woman didn't reach higher enlightenment or break free of her ways, rather, the point was that Jesus simply saw her as a human life. He did not label her, but befriended her and wanted that others would not see her as that label either. He was upset that people who saw themselves as virtuous were in essence calling her a skank.

I'm definitely not an enlightened and philosophical man, but I think that when you label and judge a person without knowing them, you are falling victim to the same kind of judgmental attitude that you are preaching against.

+1. I was going to say that, but you beat me too it. I think you put it way more eloquently than I would have too this early!

And back to our side note about metal... I love Rammstein! What album was it? Herzeleid is rad, Im old school Rammstein, anything past Mutter I didnt bother listening to. Thanks about the In Flames comment, and yes, Im not your typical Metallica fan haha! 

[Vigo]

Thanks Mike. 

Yeah, Herzeleid and Sehnsucht got me through the morning yesterday, even my boss couldn't loop her Amy Winehouse CD more than once. To be honest, I haven't listened to Rammstein much at all past Mutter either.

[Xiaou2]

The very people Jesus was angered over, he was basically calling them Trolls.

 The people shooting rocks at Jesus?  Trolls.

 Me when I was a little kid?  Troll.

 I am never going to claim to be any holy man.  Merely that my outlook on life has changed, and Ive become a better person.

 And even as I labeled the Trolls (and trust me, they know they are... as they even label themselves as such) , I did extend my true sympathies to their mostly self created sufferings.  Unlike them, I am compassionate.   Yet in return, what do I get?  A curse.   Which is very telling, and pretty much an expected reaction.

 Very sad indeed.  But hey, I was once a Troll.. and if I could change, I feel others can too.  There is always hope.

 Theres no curse in this world that will ever do worse than Ive done to myself.  Only I alone can save or ruin my own life.  And only a fool would believe that such things would work in the first place, especially to those who are in the right.  (the light of love cuts through all darkness)

 Dabbling in darkness only consumes oneself in it. So in essence, they are merely just damning themselves even deeper into a dark hole.