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Author Topic: A word about LEDBlinky…  (Read 26323 times)

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csaun9001

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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #40 on: May 03, 2010, 01:48:51 pm »
LED Blinky is AWESOME and has really added a ton to my Cab.  When I was stuck, I posed a question and ARZOO was right there to offer help to keep me going.  He should get paid for his time, without a doubt.  Sure, the free stuff is great, but his contributions have been invaluable to me.  Good luck, man, and I look forward to what comes next!!! :cheers:

Vanguard

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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #41 on: May 03, 2010, 01:51:47 pm »
Wow - I go have lunch and all hell breaks lose!  :dizzy:

Free advertising!

Seriously arzoo, best wishes.  I don't have anything against you personally.  I think my biggest frustration is that the software community hasn't figured out an economic model that works fairly.  I'm also frustrated that the hardware community doesn't compensate the software community and they more or less expect someone to solve their shortcomings for them (free or for very little compensation).


« Last Edit: May 03, 2010, 01:57:07 pm by Vanguard »

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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #42 on: May 03, 2010, 01:54:58 pm »
Sure, the free stuff is great, but his contributions have been invaluable to me.

But you're missing the fact that the "free stuff" is what makes LEDBlinky work.  Arzoo does deserve to be paid for his time, work and support but realize that a lot of time, work , research and support went into the "free stuff" that is inside LEDBlinky.


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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #43 on: May 03, 2010, 01:59:11 pm »
Somebody needs to go take the battle to Apple, Microsoft, and all of the other folks making real money off of free software.

Time to choose a more appropriate windmill.

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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #44 on: May 03, 2010, 02:01:32 pm »
See I got smart.   I work for a hardware company.

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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #45 on: May 03, 2010, 02:13:34 pm »
More vendors are asking for support.

Im not a LED blinky user as I dont have the hardware and will not be adding hardware for this.

But you should be paid from the vendor for use/liscencing of your software. It sounds like they have a product and they want your software to be the exclusive software to make their product funtionable. Seems as if they dont want to write software for it as you have done what they want already. You should really talk to a patent attorney about possible patenting you software and requiring a license for use with with specific hardware.

You think Lexmark doesnt pay microsoft for a license agreement for Win_xxxxx to be able to use their printers? Just about 99% of software requires you to agree to a 'Terms of Use' agreement and part of the agreement is that you agree that you paid a fee (when purchasing) for the license when you bought the item.

Grandpa always says: "Gotta look out for #1, just dont step in #2 along the way!"

The fact that you gave it away, donation or not is a true testimonial to your ability to program a funtional piece of software, share with the MAME community and now its time to get paid for your efforts. Nothing wrong with a little take back when you've given for so long!

Fordman


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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #46 on: May 03, 2010, 02:33:08 pm »
Sure, the free stuff is great, but his contributions have been invaluable to me.
But you're missing the fact that the "free stuff" is what makes LEDBlinky work.  Arzoo does deserve to be paid for his time, work and support but realize that a lot of time, work , research and support went into the "free stuff" that is inside LEDBlinky.

Vanguard - The Free Stuff inside LEDBlinky, is only used with the permission of the authors, or has been legally licensed (not free). These are the function libraries that are compiled into or included with the LEDBlinky installation.

Yes, LEDBlinky can be interfaced or integrated or associated with other software that is free - MAME, MaLa, HyperSpin, etc. This is true. But these apps are not included with the LEDBlinky license, nor  are they included with the installation, nor are they even required. All that is required to use LEDBlinky is the purchase of a supported LED hardware controller. And these are not free.

I just want to make it clear to anyone who purchases LEDBlinky that there is no misuse of other author's intellectual property.

I think my biggest frustration is that the software community hasn't figured out an economic model that works fairly.  I'm also frustrated that the hardware community doesn't compensate the software community and they more or less expect someone to solve their shortcomings for them (free or for very little compensation).

We are in agreement here.
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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #47 on: May 03, 2010, 03:00:13 pm »
I'm not addressing the legality of selling your software.   Yes, you are in the legal clear.

My point to csaun9001 is was that there is significant time/effort by the "free stuff" people inside of LEDBlinky.   He made it sounds like "free stuff" is something else entirely.

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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #48 on: May 03, 2010, 03:07:11 pm »
ok vangaurd you are right in every possible way and anyone who doesnt agree with you on any point is wrong.


now that we agree, you done?

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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #49 on: May 03, 2010, 03:09:37 pm »
I understand Vanguards point. Regardless of any agreement or licenses - there was significant time and effort put into these apps. As I recall for example, the ledwiz function library was a ---smurfette--- to get working!
« Last Edit: May 03, 2010, 04:28:22 pm by arzoo »
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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #50 on: May 03, 2010, 03:10:23 pm »
I'm not addressing the legality of selling your software.   Yes, you are in the legal clear.

My point to csaun9001 is was that there is significant time/effort by the "free stuff" people inside of LEDBlinky.   He made it sounds like "free stuff" is something else entirely.

you make it sound as if LEDBlinky is just a bunch of "free stuff" packaged together that Arzoo is trying to now sell
I don't think anything could be further from the truth
The vast majority of the program is is hard work. (Period)

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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #51 on: May 03, 2010, 03:35:57 pm »
In case I was misunderstood, my entire point was that ARZOO has worked really hard on LEDBlinky and I am in full support if he now want some compensation for that hard work.  Everybody likes to get things for free, sure, but not much in life is free. :dunno

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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #52 on: May 03, 2010, 03:42:12 pm »
Thanks everyone for the positive feedback   :)
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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #53 on: May 03, 2010, 04:26:57 pm »
I'm not addressing the legality of selling your software.   Yes, you are in the legal clear.

My point to csaun9001 is was that there is significant time/effort by the "free stuff" people inside of LEDBlinky.   He made it sounds like "free stuff" is something else entirely.

you make it sound as if LEDBlinky is just a bunch of "free stuff" packaged together that Arzoo is trying to now sell

No, that's not my intent.   I fully understand how much work arzoo has done.   Also, I've backed off my original statement.   As Cheffo pointed out, not everything is about MAME.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2010, 04:52:27 pm by Vanguard »

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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #54 on: May 03, 2010, 04:41:36 pm »
As I recall, the ledwiz function library was a ---smurfette--- to get working!

Yes it was.  There were a bunch of users reporting that the LEDWiz/PowerMAME was either not working for them at all or was very flaky to the point of being mostly useless.

After quite a bit of debugging nothing was determined to be wrong with the driver.   After much triage and research into the setups each user was using, it was determined that the users all had one thing in common.  They all had systems with an Nvidia Nforce chipset.  The ledwiz.dll developer had to acquire a computer system with the same chipset and debug the USB traffic with a sniffer.  Once it was determined that packets were getting lost, the developer had to work with some USB experts at another company to determine what was causing the packet loss.  To this day it isn't clear whether Nvidia is actually wrong with their USB implementation or whether the LEDWiz was expecting USB protocol to be implemented a certain way.   In the end though, it didn't really matter as the problem needed to be fixed in order for the LEDWiz to be a robust product.   The problem seemed to be a timing issue and a workaround was eventually found that solves the problem with software and saved the hardware vendor significant expense recalling his product.   This was all done without the promise of pay.

« Last Edit: May 03, 2010, 04:46:07 pm by Vanguard »

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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #55 on: May 03, 2010, 05:02:40 pm »
So how does the splash screen affect command line usage and integration with a front end? I don't use the software, but I can see this causing a loss of "focus" that could screw up front ends...

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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #56 on: May 03, 2010, 05:10:12 pm »
i think i get what you're saying vanguard, i agree with ya on some points.. to a degree.

i dont know much about LED blinky.. never used it .. dont have any hardware it will run.. yet.

but ultimately it's the authors choice.. people will either pay it, pirate it, or someone else will come up with something as good or better thats free.

these things have a way of balancing them selves out.

LED wiz is the most cost effective hardware i know of (although my research was far from exhaustive)
and in future projects is what i plan to use, with that said it sounds like LED Blinky is going paid mainly on the basis that future new hardware is going ot take more effort to support.. and there for needs to be compensated for.

ergo current versions that already support ledwiz might be all someone needs/wants, although it's always nice ot support more hardware is it worth adding if it's going to be enough work to justify switching to shareware license..

i mean are the users of LED Blinky wanting these new hardware devices? if there is'nt any demand for such it seems effort wasted.



anyway i think my question got lost in the mayhem earlier, but will versions up till current still be freely available?
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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #57 on: May 03, 2010, 06:01:13 pm »
So how does the splash screen affect command line usage and integration with a front end? I don't use the software, but I can see this causing a loss of "focus" that could screw up front ends...

The splash displays over top of the FE and after a few seconds closes, returning focus to the FE. I tested with Hyperspin, MaLa, Maximus Arcade, and AtomicFE.
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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #58 on: May 03, 2010, 06:06:34 pm »
I'm not addressing the legality of selling your software.   Yes, you are in the legal clear.

My point to csaun9001 is was that there is significant time/effort by the "free stuff" people inside of LEDBlinky.   He made it sounds like "free stuff" is something else entirely.

you make it sound as if LEDBlinky is just a bunch of "free stuff" packaged together that Arzoo is trying to now sell

No, that's not my intent.   I fully understand how much work arzoo has done.   Also, I've backed off my original statement.   As Cheffo pointed out, not everything is about MAME.
no worries :cheers:

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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #59 on: May 03, 2010, 06:16:59 pm »
i mean are the users of LED Blinky wanting these new hardware devices? if there is'nt any demand for such it seems effort wasted.

IMO there is room for improvement when it comes to the hardware. At the very least, more competition (and really - GGG has none so far) could bring down the prices.

Quote
anyway i think my question got lost in the mayhem earlier, but will versions up till current still be freely available?

No - I have pulled the older versions from the download site. I can't stop current users from distributing the app but I would ask that they don't. Remember, the software is still technically free - just with a nag screen.
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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #60 on: May 03, 2010, 08:00:20 pm »
So where do we go to purchase this product now?

Thanks

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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #61 on: May 03, 2010, 08:23:09 pm »
So where do we go to purchase this product now?

Thanks

LEDBlinky.net
« Last Edit: May 03, 2010, 08:25:35 pm by arzoo »
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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #62 on: May 03, 2010, 09:02:21 pm »
I'm more than happy to pay for such a great product, I hope you stay at it for long LONG time.  :)

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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #63 on: May 03, 2010, 11:57:19 pm »
While it does suck to have to pay for something you once got free (because I'm a cheap bastard), Arzoo definitely deserves some sort of compensation.


That being said, if we do purchase the software do we get free life time updates?

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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #64 on: May 04, 2010, 07:09:19 am »
That being said, if we do purchase the software do we get free life time updates?

Yes
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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #65 on: May 04, 2010, 12:56:27 pm »
Yes it was.  There were a bunch of users reporting that the LEDWiz/PowerMAME was either not working for them at all or was very flaky to the point of being mostly useless.

After quite a bit of debugging nothing was determined to be wrong with the driver.   After much triage and research into the setups each user was using, it was determined that the users all had one thing in common.  They all had systems with an Nvidia Nforce chipset.  The ledwiz.dll developer had to acquire a computer system with the same chipset and debug the USB traffic with a sniffer.  Once it was determined that packets were getting lost, the developer had to work with some USB experts at another company to determine what was causing the packet loss.  To this day it isn't clear whether Nvidia is actually wrong with their USB implementation or whether the LEDWiz was expecting USB protocol to be implemented a certain way.   In the end though, it didn't really matter as the problem needed to be fixed in order for the LEDWiz to be a robust product.   The problem seemed to be a timing issue and a workaround was eventually found that solves the problem with software and saved the hardware vendor significant expense recalling his product.   This was all done without the promise of pay.

I just want to make something known here in regard to this (in all honesty, I thought I already had.)  The Nvidia chipset was the only one which had this issue....the only one.  Whether or not they were operating within the spec, they seemed to be the only ones doing things the way they did.

Regardless, when the issue came to light, and thanks in part to the discussions with MikeQ ;), the LED-Wiz firmware was modified to account for the the Nvidia USB idiosyncrasy.  After I made this modification, I never had another report of the issues that were being talked about here.  This was about three years ago.

In regard to "vendors supporting their products", I want to make it very clear that I directed efforts toward other areas specifically because of the existence of AtomicFE and MikeQ's PowerMAME (which were the first apps to light controls being used) and LED-Blinky.  It was clear from discussions with Arzoo and HeadKaze that they planned on taking the animation formats in a different direction than I had planned, so I decided to cease development on this type of application and direct my limited time to projects more beneficial to the community and to the welfare of GGG.  I'd also like to point out that we often donate hardware to these causes where the end result is a useful, free application for the community.

But more to the point of the discussion, Arzoo absolutely has the right to compensated for his work.  Regardless of the engine being used to communicate with the LED-Wiz hardware, be it the free one I wrote, or the two or three others out there, there is still a lot of work that was done on the user interfacing, testing, extra features and so-on that Arzoo went through great lengths to not only provide, but to make sure worked well in the setups used by others.  I won't even go into the support aspects, which sometimes eat any profit you might be making right out from under you.

If it turns out that folks have a problem with the shareware concept of LED-Blinky, and don't find other apps which do what they would like, then I will do what I always do and fill the gaps where they appear.  But if folks like the software and it does everything you need it to, there's no reason not to support the author.

RandyT
« Last Edit: May 04, 2010, 12:58:25 pm by RandyT »

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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #66 on: May 04, 2010, 01:04:54 pm »
With the exception of one stick-in-the-mud, everyone seemed to be supportive.   ;)

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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #67 on: May 04, 2010, 07:24:01 pm »
Shareware is fine with me, $20 is reasonable.  I'll be buying this summer.

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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #68 on: May 04, 2010, 08:07:25 pm »
If the application comes preconfigured to light the correct buttons for whatever game I start in Mame and light them the correct colors (i.e. what the dedicated cab has), I would purchase.

 ;)

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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #69 on: May 04, 2010, 09:52:01 pm »
Sure, it's a bummer paying for something that was free a few days ago....but....

Software development is a lot more labor intensive than most people would assume.  Bummer, sure, but oh well, I'll be chipping in when I'm ready.

Thanks arzoo, great stuff.

hmmm... maybe the hardware manufacturers should offer hardware/software combo packages?

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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #70 on: May 05, 2010, 09:46:08 am »
I know arzoo puts a lot of work into this.  He helped me set mine up, even developed a feature based on something I wanted, so I have no qualms whatsoever about kicking some cheddar his way.   :cheers:

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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #71 on: May 05, 2010, 10:23:47 am »
I suppose anyone doubting this move needs to make this consideration - give a little and continue seeing it supported or be a tightwad and watch it go away forever? There comes a point where a contribution becomes more than a little giving back and becomes a time-consuming obligation, and rightly so he has a right to get a little back. People continue to pay for Maximus Arcade which was borne under similar circumstances.

Without going into the grey area of reverse-engineering and distribution of MAME for free, comparing LEDBlinky with MAME is irrelevant as to sell the MAME core would be flat-out illegal as it is emulating existing hardware to do exactly the same job (ie ripping off an existing product), whereas software like LEDBlinky was written to perform a new task using elements of original code based on different ideas for other purposes. Would you argue that car manufacturers should pay a commission to the inventor of the wheel?

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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #72 on: May 05, 2010, 12:31:29 pm »
Turnarcades iirc you're in the UK right? in America at least there i s no law against emulators them selves..

emulation is done all the time.. not just for playing old video games it's sometimes used in computers to provide stop gap between technologies or provide legacy support of old hardware or protocols.
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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #73 on: May 05, 2010, 08:29:55 pm »
Turnarcades iirc you're in the UK right? in America at least there i s no law against emulators them selves..

emulation is done all the time.. not just for playing old video games it's sometimes used in computers to provide stop gap between technologies or provide legacy support of old hardware or protocols.

Yeah, same situation here. However, sale of emulators (as opposed to their existence and free distribution) would likely infringe the same copyrights as would taking a product, repackaging it as your own and selling that. Not that I'm an expert, just a supposition. Arzoo's got right and reason to brand LEDBlinky as his own and the only people who have right to grumble are anyone who's code was maybe borrowed (if they can prove it and are that anal).

The point I'm making is that LEDBlinky was compiled using ideas from other sources and maybe samples of code intended for other uses and not covered by copyright, into a piece of software for a specific purpose with mostly his own contributions; it wasn't a nicked open-source or shareware program that someone's tried to claim ownership to or turn profit from.

mumble... cough.... David... Foley... ahem.

Beretta

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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #74 on: May 05, 2010, 09:09:54 pm »
wow, Turnarcades nothing i said had a thing to do with LED blinky.. it was completely off topic and was only commenting about legitimacy of emulators.

did you truly get all that you wrote out of my post? i have magic fingers :P


for the record i dont use LED blinky, dont know the history of it, do not care what the author does with it.
i do think it's pretty crappy to retroactively yank older free versions but again that's their choice.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 09:13:03 pm by Beretta »
Anyone got change for a dollar?
PLEASE HELP NEED Fastmame .70 and .9* releases

headkaze

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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #75 on: May 12, 2010, 10:21:54 am »
This seems a little lame to me considering the amount of time and effort that was put into the drivers and SDK for the LEDWiz.   LEDBlinky wouldn't exist without the FREE contributions of other members.   You're essentially make money off other peoples work.   While the driver for the LEDWiz is not terribly complex,  hundreds of hours went into the debugging and devising workarounds for Nvidia USB chipset issues that made the LEDWiz flakey at best on those chipsets.

LEDBlinky is a cool product but relies on the free work that has been done by others.   Just my two cents.

It's not lame at all! Arzoo has put a tonne of work into LEDBlinky and I think he deserves to get something back for it. I have given Arzoo permission to use my UltraStik and UHID/PacDrive dll's which he didn't really need to do as I made an agreement with UltraStik to make them freely available (apart from UltraStik.dll which has never been released to the public)

It's clear to me you're MikeQ so why not just disclose that in the first place? I know you were quite jaded because of all the work you had done on LEDWiz.dll and got nothing back from Randy. Infact that was one of the reasons you stated for leaving these forums. I totally understand your feelings and even quoted you on my LEDWiz makeover site.

"If I could make a living selling software products to the MAME community, I'd quit my job tomorrow.  You guys are a lot more fun to work with than corporate America. :) It's unfortunate that there is a mentality that you don't pay for peoples hard work when it is software but you do when it is hardware."[/i] - MikeQ

I really just think you're upset because you couldn't make any money out of PowerMAME. But the MAME license clearly states that you can't. Just because you couldn't make money doesn't mean Arzoo can't. LEDBlinky it not strictly a MAME only product either, you could use it in a Jukebox for example. And how much money do you really think Arzoo will make? Enough to cover a fraction of his time and money spent perhaps?

In my opinion, everyone doing software should get paid.   The hardware vendors often release products that are mostly useless without the community stepping up and doing the software work (almost always with no significant compensation for the work).

It's not Arzoo's fault that hardware manufacturers don't always support developers. I offered to write a LEDWiz driver for GGG but Randy didn't want to give me the necessary documentation to do it while he gave it to MikeQ and youki. Youki restricted use of his driver in any front end other than his own. MikeQ did end up releasing his final version which was a dll and useful for the type of plugin I was writing for GameEx. The official driver by GGG was crap to say the least and written as an ActiveX control which is a pain to use in anything other than VB6 (which is a dead language for the most part now anyway).

Meanwhile I wrote drivers for Ultimarc software and while I didn't make alot of money Andy was kind enough to send me free hardware as well as some payment. It would be nice if hardware developers were more supportive like Andy and I think he has benefitted greatly by doing that. I have written quite alot of stuff for him since then and updated some of his software for free. We have a good relationship which is based on good will and I think it was a smart business move on his part aswell as displaying respectable character.

I think Randy could have been more supportive. For writing the LEDWiz plugin for GameEx he gave me a free LEDWiz but I had to pay for my buttons and second LEDWiz. I believe Arzoo encountered a similar situation where he had to buy the bulk of his hardware from GGG. That doesn't seem right to me really. It's a shame he can't even write something like LuminAudio and give away the source code or a dll for developers so they can actually make something useful with it but he wouldn't even do that. Of course both Arzoo and myself ended up writing our own audio to lighting solutions. I think Randy has upset a number of developers on here (in fact I know he has from talking to several of them) which is a shame since we work very hard to support his hardware which he is clearly profiting from. His LEDWiz software was pretty much useless from the beginning and Arzoo and I wanted to update the format (lwa) to a more modern xml format which could also support other devices such as the PacDrive (lwax). I think it's ridiculous for Randy to say he stopped development because we created a new format. What has that go to do with anything? Just face the facts that your software is useless and that people don't use it so why bother writing software when other people are doing it at no cost to you? Pretty bad attitude IMHO.

So it's really no suprise to me that LEDBlinky has gone shareware and I think Arzoo deserves to get something back for his hard work. If all hardware vendors supported freelancers like Andy did then there would be no need for it. Anyway best wishes to Arzoo!  :cheers:

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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #76 on: May 12, 2010, 12:17:49 pm »
$20 bucks compared to the thousands I've spent in the last 3 years on other tools/material/time is insignificant.  I have no problem with that if it supports continued development. I've been aware of this software, but it was always going to be a phase 2 of my cab, but when I go ahead and add illuminated buttons, I'm fine with 20 bucks for control/interface software.

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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #77 on: May 12, 2010, 12:30:19 pm »
Quote
It's not Arzoo's fault that hardware manufacturers don't always support developers. I offered to write a LEDWiz driver for GGG but Randy didn't want to give me the necessary documentation to do it while he gave it to MikeQ and youki. Youki restricted use of his driver in any front end other than his own. MikeQ did end up releasing his final version which was a dll and useful for the type of plugin I was writing for GameEx. The official driver by GGG was crap to say the least and written as an ActiveX control which is a pain to use in anything other than VB6 (which is a dead language for the most part now anyway).

It doesn't make sense to have umpteen different dll's out there that all do the same thing, especially when you already have an extremely capable individual (MikeQ) who had already written one and agreed to release his work.  And when I did offer to give you the information to write your own, after you showed that you were dedicated enough to actually do something with it, you declined in favor of using the one made by MikeQ.  As for your comments about the ActiveX control I wrote, it seems to work fine for the world's largest aluminum producer and the 100+ year old department store chain who use it every day with large quantities of the hardware, not to mention countless others.

It should also be mentioned that there could have been another approach taken, one that is taken by virtually every other "real" hardware producer, and that is to completely lock down direct communication with the device and force developers to license the one and only library so MikeQ or Youki could be compensated for their efforts.  Another could have been to officially commission someone to write a suite of apps to provide with the hardware and then charge another $30 more per unit to cover the cost and force folks to buy it, whether they wanted it or not.  No, instead we chose, at great financial risk, to make the best hardware we can for a fairly miserable profit margin to fill a void in the community, and to simply provide the basic tools and let those with the desire and skills make it do what they wanted, leaving compensation for their efforts up to them.  Perhaps this isn't the best way, based on the nature of these comments.

Quote
I think Randy could have been more supportive. For writing the LEDWiz plugin for GameEx he gave me a free LEDWiz but I had to pay for my buttons and second LEDWiz. I believe Arzoo encountered a similar situation where he had to buy the bulk of his hardware from GGG. That doesn't seem right to me really.

Just to keep your story straight, Arzoo bought all of his gear long before LED-Blinky was a gleam in his eye.  And I didn't bat an eyelash about sending him a free unit when he asked for one for development not so long ago.  And you don't know it, but I have sent out more than $500 in hardware (my cost, not retail value) based on promises of getting support under Linux.  Do you see any Linux support for the LED-Wiz?  I have attempted this 3 times, once even with an individual from this community.  There comes a time when you have to say "no more".  We aren't Intel here, just two people who bust their humps close to 12 hours a day and our "take home" pay is less than most of our customers.  If you are suggesting that we should raise our prices so that we can provide free hardware to anyone who may or may not actually produce something beneficial to the community or to GGG, then I'll take it under advisement.

Quote
I think it's ridiculous for Randy to say he stopped development because we created a new format. What has that go to do with anything?

It may not give you a warm fuzzy, but it is certainly true.  It would have made no sense for me to continue development to produce what would have been a competing piece of software with a format that it was made perfectly clear would not be supported by anyone else.

BTW, you make it seem like every hardware producer out there has a responsibility to provide software to do every possible thing that an end user might consider doing with it.  This is, at minimum, off-the-wall.  It's akin to stating that a modem producer should have written the Internet.  No, what the hardware producer is expected to deliver are the tools for others to build upon to make it do what they would like it to do.  Call it a driver, a function library, whathaveyou.  And we did that just fine, through my own efforts, and the efforts of MikeQ and Youki, about 4 years ago.  I'm sorry those efforts weren't sufficient for you.

RandyT
« Last Edit: May 12, 2010, 12:33:02 pm by RandyT »

headkaze

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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #78 on: May 12, 2010, 12:41:53 pm »
I'm sorry those efforts weren't sufficient for you.

It's not just me who thinks your efforts wern't sufficient enough. The fact is there are other hardware manufacturers in the arcade scene that do the right thing by developers. Not because it's better for their bottom line, but because they want to support the coders who are supporting them. It's really actually a smart thing to do. I think you'll find that MikeQ is trying to tell you something in his comments in this thread.

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Re: A word about LEDBlinky…
« Reply #79 on: May 12, 2010, 01:02:49 pm »
It's not just me who thinks your efforts wern't sufficient enough. The fact is there are other hardware manufacturers in the arcade scene that do the right thing by developers. Not because it's better for their bottom line, but because they want to support the coders who are supporting them. It's really actually a smart thing to do. I think you'll find that MikeQ is trying to tell you something in his comments in this thread.

No, it's because it's better for their bottom line.  I realize this, and so should you.  But as a hardware producer, everything is tangible and has real cost associated with it.  One has to be careful unless the profit margins are so high, as they apparently are with other vendors, to put those resources where they will do the most good.

As for MikeQ, I think his main issue was having his graciously donated work being used as part of a "product" that he receives no compensation for.  The fundamental difference is that the LED-Wiz, with the tools we provide, is fully functional and will continue to exist and have value outside the availability of a third party DLL or application.  The same cannot be said of a piece of software that essentially does nothing, or is severely crippled, when a third party DLL is no longer present.  Perhaps Arzoo should offer MikeQ a portion of whatever proceeds he derives through his use of it, as is commonly done for any 3rd party programming libraries one wishes to incorporate into a commercial product.  This is the gist of what I read in this thread.

RandyT