Insert coin before selecting game? This possible?

[sk8ersublime]

I was wondering if there is any software or configuration for Hyperspin where I could insert coins before selecting the game and have it transfer to the game, kind of like the multicades you see around in bars and stuff. Anyway to do this with Mame?

[ubiquityman]

You could do this with AutoHotKey I think:

When "Enter" is pressed, wait for xxx seconds then send the "coin" key.
It'd essentially be an unintelligent micro so YMMV.

[bkenobi]

That won't work unless you compile MAME to use the old input system.  The current system uses RAW inputs and it won't take key presses sent by a program.

[DeLuSioNal29]

You could always use Cfg Magician to set all (or most that support it) to FREE PLAY.

D

[Ginsu Victim]

I was wondering if there is any software or configuration for Hyperspin where I could insert coins before selecting the game and have it transfer to the game, kind of like the multicades you see around in bars and stuff. Anyway to do this with Mame?

What you're wanting to do will not get answered. It's frowned upon. MAME devs definitely don't want this.

[Kevin Mullins]

Yeah, something like this was discussed before and the potential commercial use aspect is a big factor in my opinion.

[sk8ersublime]

I mean im not trying to do it for commercial use...

i just thought it would be a little more realistic to an arcade for my cab if i put a coin in, and then i could select the game

sorry. its not a huge deal, just was wondering if it was possible

[SophT]

That won't work unless you compile MAME to use the old input system.  The current system uses RAW inputs and it won't take key presses sent by a program.

according to the autohotkey documentation on the Send function:

SendRaw Keys

Raw mode: The SendRaw command sends the keystrokes exactly as they appear rather than translating {Enter} to an ENTER keystroke, ^c to Control-C, etc. To use raw mode with SendInput, SendPlay, or SendEvent, write {Raw} as the first item in the string; for example: SendInput {Raw}abc

would that help?

[Ginsu Victim]

i just thought it would be a little more realistic to an arcade for my cab if i put a coin in, and then i could select the game

99% of arcade games AREN'T like that (the 1% is for stuff like Neo Geo and Playchoice). Where's this realism?

[Nataq]

It totally make sense. I would be interested in a solution too.

[CheffoJeffo]

Somebody did write code for this some years back. IIRC, MAMEDevs didn't like it, so we don't talk about it here.
Same person somebody else released a new version in December and, from what I can see, all links to it are now broken or have been removed.

PSA: I also seem to remember that the last person who asked for it got a lemony fresh surprise, so be careful what you download ...

EDIT: corrected as it apparently wasn't headkaze who released the one in December

[Firebat138]

to play the devils advocate here... Who cares what Mamedevs think...  and I mean no disrespect in that comment at all... 
I mean this is for OUR use not theirs.  Same with the whole GPU accel. or using a REAL monitor.  If you can get it to work the way YOU want, that's all that matters.  Personally MameUI64 makes my games run better and faster now that I have a 64 bit system so hats off to the devs for continuing the progress...  Now if they can only get Time Crisis to work.  :-)

But I dig the idea, now what would be REALLY cool, is if that you could put a quarter in the first time and it STARTED MAME, or HS, or Mala... etc...  or maybe not... See...I almost talked myself out of the idea.  :-)

[CheffoJeffo]

to play the devils advocate here... Who cares what Mamedevs think...  and I mean no disrespect in that comment at all... 

The rules. saint asks us to respect the MAMEDevs' wishes, so we do. I don't agree with everything they say or want, but I respect saint's wishes. If I want to do something that runs contrary, then I do it someplace else.

9. BYOAC strives to be a MAME-friendly site. There's a page discussing BYOAC and MAME's relationship that you should read, but the short nutshell is that BYOAC will strive to honor MAMEDev wishes regarding distribution of MAME and derivatives thereof.

The aforementioned page:

http://arcadecontrols.com/BYOAC-and-MAME.shtml

[Firebat138]

oh...

[Ginsu Victim]

Who cares what Mamedevs think

 

[Firebat138]

hehe... flame all ya want, as I stated I wasn't trying to be an ass or anything, just saying that the guy had a good idea and we should help him the best we can...  and not just state a rule... 

Why can't I covet thy neighbors wife... Because GOD said so... Well... that isn't good enough.  :-)

Again...    No disrespect as I was just stating my own opinion... if it wasnt for these forums and MAME, I would have bought several arcades by now just to play Galaga or Ms. Pacman.  :-)

[Ginsu Victim]

hehe... flame all ya want, as I stated I wasn't trying to be an ass or anything, just saying that the guy had a good idea and we should help him the best we can...  and not just state a rule...

It opens the door for commercial use. We don't want that and the MAMEdevs DEFINITELY don't.

Why can't I covet thy neighbors wife... Because GOD said so... Well... that isn't good enough.  :-)

No politics or religious discussion allowed. Read the rules.

[Firebat138]

OK... but it wasnt a rule violation...  I was merely poking fun.  Lighten up a little


Quote
Why can't I covet thy neighbors wife... Because GOD said so... Well... that isn't good enough.  :-)

No politics or religious discussion allowed. Read the rules.

[Ginsu Victim]

Really? As a Christian, I took offense. That's why we have the rule.

[Firebat138]

Pm sent.

I truly did NOT mean to offend anyone here...  So case closed and sorry for the trouble.

[Manre Boo]

Why everyone is so serious?

If you know solution to problem that guy is asking just send him PM or email to help him out.
It won't do any harm to anyone.
Everyone is allready downloading full rom sets in illegal ways, so surely it can't be so bad to help a guy to get his system to work like he wants. After all I believe that is the reason this forum exists? Build Your Own Arcade Control <-- yea...so now lets build our own arcade controls ok?
For sure if I knew solution to help thread OP I would help him.

[Ginsu Victim]

It's one thing to help an established member privately with a question like this, but a new member we don't know comes in and asks, and we have no clue about his real intentions (or those of people reading this thread).

[Manre Boo]

I can't really see how this topic could be held as some private secret amongst long time members. We can never expect community to grow if new members are dealt like this.

He asked simple question about arcade controls, and some people are basically saying that this can be done, but we are not going to tell you because its secret or rule violation

Don't be hypocrites now people. Every single person in these forums are breaking many kind of rules/laws allready.
Just help the guy out if you know solution, thats why this forum exist right?

[CheffoJeffo]

Why everyone is so serious?

Probably because the discussion always stirs things up and you get folks shooting off stuff like  

Everyone is allready downloading full rom sets in illegal ways

which has absolutely nothing to do with following saint's simple requests and only tends to piss people off.

I think the bottom line on this is that there was an solution for this. It pissed people off, including the author. It is no longer available and supported.

If you want to experience the drama, here is a sample thread:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=47627.0

[Hoopz]

USB sucks.  PS/2 is dead!

 

 

[CheffoJeffo]

Don't be hypocrites now people. Every single person in these forums are breaking many kind of rules/laws allready.

You are making blanket assumptions that are incorrect. Not everybody here does what you want to do.

AND, this is saint's BBQ and you need to respect his wishes (and, if you aren't clear on them, read the rules). If you don't want to, there are lots of other cool places on the innertubes.

USB sucks.  PS/2 is dead!

I thought it was LCDs that suck and CRTs that are dead!

 

[Hoopz]

USB sucks.  PS/2 is dead!

I thought it was LCDs that suck and CRTs that are dead!

 

I'm old school.  You kids and your new fangled televisions freak me out.

Seriously, if everyone hasn't read the rules, please take the time to do so.  It makes things run much more smoothly around here.  There are enough rabblerousers without adding people getting pissy about getting smacked down when they haven't read the rules.

PnR should be open to everyone without having to ask!  Up with freedom, down with the man!  

[Manre Boo]

Cheffojeffo: Nobody can live without breaking any kind of rules, trust me on this one. I am not making blanket assumptions on this one. If you never have violated any rules or laws please feel free to say so but then you are lying.

Now if I am undestanding this issue correctly, bottom line is this:
Commercial use. Does this mean arcade machines that are made to malls and gas stations by someone who don't really own rights to those arcade games?

As now arcade cabinets are dying. Soon there will be only some very rare places where arcade cabinets even exist. Ofc us, people who build their own arcades, will still have their cabs, but major population will not have any access to arcade machines.

I dont really see any problem to bring more arcade cabs to be used by common people. Even if those arcades are brought by people who dont own legal rights to things what is inside their cabinets. Its better to have some illegal arcades than no arcades at all.

Japan still have some arcade business going on but in other parts of the world arcade is dying really. Thanks to things like PS3 and Xbox360.

We must safe arcades if we can. It  must not be priviledge only for arcade enthusiasts to be able to play games in arcade cabs.

Im only posting my opinion. I hope its allowed in this board?

[Ginsu Victim]

Wow, you just lost the argument.

[Hoopz]

We do need one stickied thread that delves into Mame's legalities, Mamedev's wishes, DMCA, etc instead of having these same discussions all of the time.   It's worse now than all of the other threads like what's the best joystick, what's your favorite FE, etc.

I think it's pretty damn clear.  Don't do anything that's against the rules here.  Don't piss on Mame or it's developers on purpose.  Do what you want in the privacy of your own home but when you post about it, it becomes public.  That's when it goes back to respecting Saint and Mamedevs. 

Bottom line.  If you want to be an ass, do it within the rules. 

[Malenko]

If you want to be an ass, do it within the rules. 

like chad and PBJ

SAFE our arcade, lol.

Basically the reason we dont discuss a solution to this is it because too easy for someone to use MAME in a commercial enviroment This way. Its not exceedingly difficult to coin up after picking a game, so its serves little to no purpose to coin up prior to selecting one. Just because a person wants help doesnt mean we are ordained to do so nor does it mean we know a viable solution.

[Hoopz]

If you want to be an ass, do it within the rules. 

like chad and PBJ

SAFE our arcade, lol.

Basically the reason we dont discuss a solution to this is it because too easy for someone to use MAME in a commercial enviroment This way. Its not exceedingly difficult to coin up after picking a game, so its serves little to no purpose to coin up prior to selecting one. Just because a person wants help doesnt mean we are ordained to do so nor does it mean we know a viable solution.

I wasn't going to name names.   

And those are three perfect points.

[CheffoJeffo]

Im only posting my opinion. I hope its allowed in this board?

Absolutely.

You seem to have trouble distinguishing between posting an opinion and breaking the rules. I like 60-in-1 boards -- this is my opinion. I don't post here about how to find them because it is against saint's rules.

[Ginsu Victim]

Basically the reason we dont discuss a solution to this is it because too easy for someone to use MAME in a commercial enviroment This way.

Yeah, but according to this quote, he doesn't care:

I dont really see any problem to bring more arcade cabs to be used by common people. Even if those arcades are brought by people who dont own legal rights to things what is inside their cabinets. Its better to have some illegal arcades than no arcades at all.

[Manre Boo]

I don't see how I have breaked rules? Rules 5 say nothing illegal. Ok. Does this mean if I write my opinion about arcade halls I have breaked rules? Its not like I am building illegal arcade or something like that I am merely stating my opinion of this topic.

I am not trying to irritate anyone, and I will stop now posting about this topic.

But could you please say your opinion about public arcades? Would you like them to be gone forever. Or have even couple of 3rd party arcade game halls?

Thank you for being patient with newbie. It would still be better place to discuss if it would be more open minded place. Maybe reason is that i live in Finland, and arcades here are completely extincted. Not even amusement parks got arcades anymore, in very rare places you can find one or two arcade cabinets. This is main reason I am building my own cabinet. If there were arcade halls I would go there to play games and pay money for it.

[Ginsu Victim]

This is main reason I am building my own cabinet. If there were arcade halls I would go there to play games and pay money for it.

So would you pay to play your own cabinet? With what you're saying, you would have us go to arcades and play MAME versions of games, not the real thing. That's not why I go to arcades.

I still pay to play real machines when I find them, and even with my MAME cabinet, I still want the real thing.

[CheffoJeffo]

Nobody said that you broke the rules.

I can't really see how this topic could be held as some private secret amongst long time members. We can never expect community to grow if new members are dealt like this.

He asked simple question about arcade controls, and some people are basically saying that this can be done, but we are not going to tell you because its secret or rule violation

Don't be hypocrites now people. Every single person in these forums are breaking many kind of rules/laws allready.
Just help the guy out if you know solution, thats why this forum exist right?

You said that we should break the rules and that we were hypocrites for not doing so.

[Manre Boo]

Actually I am planning to pay to play my own cabinet. When cab is ready, every single credit i play i put coin in cabinet.

I was talking about bringing cabinets to other peoples hands than arcade enthusiasts. Next generation propably will never see live arcade cab in their own eyes. We enthusiasts can play our cabinets yeah, but other people can't play them anywhere.

As I stated I am not going to ask anyone to break rules anymore, but just remember next time you break a rule to gain something, then you indeed are a hypocrite. Time will come eventually.

[CheffoJeffo]

As I stated I am not going to ask anyone to break rules anymore, but just remember next time you break a rule to gain something, then you indeed are a hypocrite. Time will come eventually.

You really don't get it, do you ?

We are talking about following saint's specific rules for posting here.

I don't give a toss what rules you break elsewhere.

[Firebat138]

Man... Did I do this...?  :-)

Since we are on the subject...  when I was younger I worked at a comic shop and another local shop had either Xmen. or TMNT, cant remember which, but in any case, they rented the machine from somewhere  The manager somehow figured out to make it free play, which I didnt even know was possible... for the employees after hours...  I guess someone got wind of it and the company took the machine back, stating they violated the rules, which they DID.  But what is really stopping people from putting a mame cabinet in your local shop or whereever... hooking up the coin slot and NOT put a coin button on...  Then using whatever front end you want...  wouldnt you just pick the game you wanted, hit select and it would still need quarters right?  I wouldnt put it past people, but I wonder if there are any cases of exactly this.

It reminds me of the people who stole PONG from that guy and then made arcades to put in donut shops and stuff, I guess the owner called a couple days later and said the machine was broke... it wasn't...  I was FULL of quarters.  :-)

[CheffoJeffo]

It reminds me of the people who stole PONG from that guy and then made arcades to put in donut shops and stuff, I guess the owner called a couple days later and said the machine was broke... it wasn't...  I was FULL of quarters.  :-)

Are you referring to Atari and the PONG prototype at Andy Capp's ?

[Manre Boo]

I get it ok, I get it. How you got idea I wouldn't get it.

It's also rather strange morally if you follow rules of this forum 100% but every other forums/places rules you don't care at all (or don't give a toss, I don't know what it means but I guess its same). Person with good morality would follow rules of every forum/place at same respect.

If you read my posts upper. I write that if you guys are afraid to post here just pm or email that guy to help him out.
That way its not breaking any rules and nobody knows, since post is not showing on public board. Everyone is happy.

[Haze]

as posted here any software that enables this in MAME is a big no-no as far as the development team are concerned.

It's the primary mechanism for making a commerical for-profit on-location MAME cab out of MAME, and as such is something the development team are strongly against.

[Manre Boo]

But real question is, are you against it?

Not single person has said yet do they want that arcades disappear from big crowds and became only to be accessible by arcade enthusiasts. Its allready happened in major parts of world.

[Firebat138]

It reminds me of the people who stole PONG from that guy and then made arcades to put in donut shops and stuff, I guess the owner called a couple days later and said the machine was broke... it wasn't...  I was FULL of quarters.  :-)

Are you referring to Atari and the PONG prototype at Andy Capp's ?

Hmm... might be...  I will have to look it up, but that sounds right...  I remember seeing a special on Tv a while back about it...  Didnt they pay the guy $50,000.  I thought they saw his idea at a tradeshow or something like that

[Hoopz]

Yes, we're against it.  And for your information, Haze is a long time contributor and member of the Mame team.  So, you aren't just talking to some end user but one of the key contributors to the program.  When he says that it's a not acceptable, believe him.

[Manre Boo]

Ok thanks for answering. But still you can only answer for your part, not for others.
And emulation is more than mame. You know what about people hooking NES or C64 inside cab?

 I know now that I am in forum thats strongly loyal and biased to mame. Its basically ok, but it also removes free discussion and development. That is pretty sad for community.

[CheffoJeffo]

Hmm... might be...  I will have to look it up, but that sounds right...  I remember seeing a special on Tv a while back about it...  Didnt they pay the guy $50,000.  I thought they saw his idea at a tradeshow or something like that

Nolan Bushnell saw Ralph Baer's ping pong game at a tradeshow. Later, Atari settled with Magnavox over it.

The PONG prototype was installed at Andy Capp's tavern and broke down shortly after being installed. It was overflowing with quarters.

I was going to post a link to a couple of videos, but they seem to have been taken down from ArcArc.

[CheffoJeffo]

Ok thanks for answering. But still you can only answer for your part, not for others.
And emulation is more than mame. You know what about people hooking NES or C64 inside cab?

 I know now that I am in forum thats strongly loyal and biased to mame. Its basically ok, but it also removes free discussion and development. That is pretty sad for community.

I think that we are having a language problem, because you REALLY don't understand what is being said.

The question that was asked was specifically about MAME, which is why we are talking about MAME. 

Yes, we know about emulating consoles.   

[Firebat138]

yup... that's it... just looked it up... I had a cool idea years back where millions of people could play an online game where you could be any character you want, go up in level and etc...  But I doubt it will ever take off...  :-)

[Manre Boo]

Well since Hyperspin was mentioned as frontend, and that is meant to support multiple systems at same time, i believe it wouldn't matter if other systems worked with coin lock too?

It could be made with timed mode where 1 coin buys you 10 minutes of game for example.
Similar to these things: http://gizmodo.com/379351/coin+op-nes-requires-serious-magic-fingers
Wouldn't propably need big adjustments to Hyperspin software to achieve similar system.

And yes I like to put coins in my arcade cab..Its great piggy bank at same time 

[Ginsu Victim]

And yes I like to put coins in my arcade cab..Its great piggy bank at same time 

When I asked about paying to play your MAME cab, I didn't mean this. I meant if you had to pay and you didn't get the money back. Why would anyone want to pay to play a MAME cab?

[Malenko]

I know now that I am in forum thats strongly loyal and biased to mame.

loyal; yes; biased, no.

the owner of the board doesnt want us discussing how to coin up in a menu; the devs of the software dont want us discussing how to coin up in a menu, but you think we should so you believe we're in the wrong.


To sumrize: No one is saying there isnt a benefit to being able to coin up in a menu; we are just saying that more harm then good can come from it; especially people using MAME for commercial endevors. Trust me, we all understand your point and agree its a neat idea that we just dont want to/cant discuss.

[Ginsu Victim]

Plus, there's just no reason for a home user to do it. It's just someone WANTING to do it, but it's not vital to use.

[Manre Boo]

So we canno't discuss to coin up NES or C64??

And if I was some common folk who don't got time or will to build own arcade cab, yes I would pay to play MAME cab.

[Ginsu Victim]

Well, here (USA) it's illegal.

[versapak]

When I asked about paying to play your MAME cab, I didn't mean this. I meant if you had to pay and you didn't get the money back. Why would anyone want to pay to play a MAME cab?

What difference does that make?

The natural assumption, I would have thought for a MAME cab, would be that they did get the money back, and just wanted to have the coins for a more arcade feel.


MAME being MAME is what will cause someone to want to place it commercially. I certainly don't agree with doing so, but I don't think that a coin up software will change anything one way or the other about commercial use.

Select game from front end, then put quarter in.

Put quarter in, then select game.

Either way.


I do respect Saint, and will respect his policies having been a member here for about 5 and a half years now, but I think the MAMEdev policy on this is a bunch of crap.

They make software that is probably more than 90% used for copyright violation. Whatever their intentions are stated to be, it isn't what is.

[Ginsu Victim]

It's one thing for us to use it for our own selfish needs, but it's entirely different for others to profit off of it.

[Manre Boo]

If I understand right what versapak is saying. MAME can allready be used as commercial usage, and adding coin lock to menu wouldn't change anything?

Choose game insert coin works now. It would only be other way around, insert coin choose game.
So whats really the deal here?

And please could someone answer is it allowed to discuss about coin locking NES menu?

[CheffoJeffo]

Whatever their intentions are stated to be, it isn't what is.

I'm not so sure -- if their intentions were to play games, then they wouldn't break games as often as they do by fixing the emulation and they would worry more about skipping parts of the emulation in the name of execution speed.

The fact that the vast majority of users use it for something different doesn't mean that the MAMEDevs have the same priorities.

I would wager that they are like many arcade collectors -- the joy is in the work and working out all of the little details are is more fun than playing.

If I understand right what versapak is saying. MAME can allready be used as commercial usage, and adding coin lock to menu wouldn't change anything?

MAME cannot be legally be used in a commercial setting. Period. That doesn't mean that it isn't done, only that it is illegal.

And please could someone answer is it allowed to discuss about coin locking NES menu?

Go ahead.

[versapak]

It's one thing for us to use it for our own selfish needs, but it's entirely different for others to profit off of it.

And who is talking about making a profit?


My kids love putting quarters in to play games. They can easily just open up the coin door to grab them out again, but putting them in is part of the experience.

What difference does it make if the quarter is put in before or after game selection?

None.

[CheffoJeffo]

What difference does it make if the quarter is put in before or after game selection?

None.

There are a host of people who would disagree (and also a host that would agree). The only thing that is is that the MAMEDevs don't like it and that even the guy who developed the tools in the past doesn't want deal with it.

There is a guy who is working on something like this, including credit counters like on NeoGeo cabs. it will be interesting to see what happens should he choose to release the tools to do so.

[versapak]

Whatever their intentions are stated to be, it isn't what is.

I'm not so sure -- if their intentions were to play games, then they wouldn't break games as often as they do by fixing the emulation and they would worry more about skipping parts of the emulation in the name of execution speed.

The fact that the vast majority of users use it for something different doesn't mean that the MAMEDevs have the same priorities.

I would wager that they are like many arcade collectors -- the joy is in the work and working out all of the little details are is more fun than playing.

Games get broken so as to be more purely emulated.

The intentions of the devs may be to play them or may be to do nothing more than archive them.

My point isn't their intention specifically in their programming, but what is done with their software. They know that their software is used by masses to play these games. That is what MAME is.

Now, of course they don't want it used commercially. I don't in any way condone that either, but that isn't what is being talked about here specifically.


I don't know the op's intentions, but it doesn't really matter to me. Someone that wants to put MAME in a commercial environment will, whether the coin goes in before or after game selection.



Really this topic is pretty much a moot point due to site rules, but I still felt the need to voice my objection to it.

[Ginsu Victim]

And who is talking about making a profit?

I'll quote this post:

Now if I am undestanding this issue correctly, bottom line is this:
Commercial use. Does this mean arcade machines that are made to malls and gas stations by someone who don't really own rights to those arcade games?

As now arcade cabinets are dying. Soon there will be only some very rare places where arcade cabinets even exist. Ofc us, people who build their own arcades, will still have their cabs, but major population will not have any access to arcade machines.

I dont really see any problem to bring more arcade cabs to be used by common people. Even if those arcades are brought by people who dont own legal rights to things what is inside their cabinets. Its better to have some illegal arcades than no arcades at all.

[versapak]

Ooooooooh look, I can read, and versapak can't.

Show off.








[EDIT]

Actually...

That isn't a quote from the thread starter/the guy who asked the question.


I wasn't paying attention to stupid commercial ramblings of other passerbys.

[Ginsu Victim]

Actually...

That isn't a quote from the thread starter/the guy who asked the question.


I wasn't paying attention to stupid commercial ramblings of other passerbys.

Right, but that's what I was responding to, and then you questioned my response.

[shateredsoul]

Seriously.. he does have a point.  If the whole idea is to not in anyway have mame be used for commercial uses, then it should be a goal should be to make every game auto freeplay. The potential to use mame as a commercial device is there. Don't put an escape key on the cp or any configure keys and you have something that can be used commercially.

I honestly think there is nothing wrong with being able to put in a quarter before choosing a game.  I would not see it as a negative thing if that was incorporated into some of the frontends out there.  I just don't see how adding that feature makes it any more prone to be used commercially. MAME as it is, can be used commercially.  

Still, I think we should respect the mame dev team's wishes because that's one of the rules that was setup for this forum, and to participate in the forum it would just be a respectful to follow the practices within the community. There's also a lot of activity we can't talk about because well, it just makes sense... you don't want to get yourself or others in trouble right?

Man... Did I do this...?  :-)

Since we are on the subject...  when I was younger I worked at a comic shop and another local shop had either Xmen. or TMNT, cant remember which, but in any case, they rented the machine from somewhere  The manager somehow figured out to make it free play, which I didnt even know was possible... for the employees after hours...  I guess someone got wind of it and the company took the machine back, stating they violated the rules, which they DID.  But what is really stopping people from putting a mame cabinet in your local shop or whereever... hooking up the coin slot and NOT put a coin button on...  Then using whatever front end you want...  wouldnt you just pick the game you wanted, hit select and it would still need quarters right?  I wouldnt put it past people, but I wonder if there are any cases of exactly this.

It reminds me of the people who stole PONG from that guy and then made arcades to put in donut shops and stuff, I guess the owner called a couple days later and said the machine was broke... it wasn't...  I was FULL of quarters.  :-)

[CheffoJeffo]

I honestly think there is nothing wrong with being able to put in a quarter before choosing a game.  I would not see it as a negative thing if that was incorporated into some of the frontends out there.  I just don't see how adding that feature makes it any more prone to be used commercially. MAME as it is, can be used commercially.  

It requires changing MAME and, if such a patch were supported by the MAMEDevs, that would undermine the notion of MAME as a documentation project (whether people believe that it is or not) and push it more towards being a vehicle for copyright violation. If it was my project, that isn't something that I would want.

[Kevin Mullins]

Me and my 3 year old daughter just polished off a 12 pack of mini moon-pies.......

[shateredsoul]

I'm not asking the mamedevs to support it, i'm just saying... concerning the risk of it being used commercially, I don't think having that feature included makes it more or less likely.

I honestly think there is nothing wrong with being able to put in a quarter before choosing a game.  I would not see it as a negative thing if that was incorporated into some of the frontends out there.  I just don't see how adding that feature makes it any more prone to be used commercially. MAME as it is, can be used commercially.  

It requires changing MAME and, if such a patch were supported by the MAMEDevs, that would undermine the notion of MAME as a documentation project (whether people believe that it is or not) and push it more towards being a vehicle for copyright violation. If it was my project, that isn't something that I would want.

[CheffoJeffo]

I'm not asking the mamedevs to support it, i'm just saying... concerning the risk of it being used commercially, I don't think having that feature included makes it more or less likely.

And I'm saying that is only one consideration ...

[shateredsoul]

Okay, I'm not complaining..

Just curious as to why this logic is used in some cases and not others.

I'm not asking the mamedevs to support it, i'm just saying... concerning the risk of it being used commercially, I don't think having that feature included makes it more or less likely.

And I'm saying that is only one consideration ...

[CheffoJeffo]

Okay, I'm not complaining..

Just curious as to why this logic is used in some cases and not others.

We need another rule -- only saint is allowed to top post! 

Everybody has different points of view and different experiences and not everybody posts in every thread, so you'll see various explanations and opinions.

[sk8ersublime]

HOLY CRAP!

HAHAHA

Im sorry I caused such an outburst.

Its really not a big deal, I just always found the multicade menus to be neat in the fact that my coin was in, then i selected and it transferred that credit to the selected game.

As for the "well just use free play" comments, im not a big fan of that, my cab does have a coin button of course, but putting in quarters just gives you that true arcade feeling. (and it helps when you have $100 in quarters laying around)

To the guys who didnt like it the idea and think im out to make some money....kinda hard to do in my basement when im pretty much the only one who plays the cab, sorry.

To the guys who wanted to help. Thanks!

I vote for a mod to just close this thread since people are getting so bent out of shape about it.

Lets all be friends! haha

[shateredsoul]

ha ha yeah, well as we all know.. there's certain parts of emulating that we need to tiptoe around.

Yes good point, people are getting bent out of shape BUT the risk of having people use these type of programs for profit are just an inherent issue to emulation. I can see why people would get so defensive about these things that mind attract the unwanted attention of game companies. But .. you just wanted it for your own use. Good luck with that.

[Ginsu Victim]

To the guys who didnt like it the idea and think im out to make some money....kinda hard to do in my basement when im pretty much the only one who plays the cab, sorry.

Well, I didn't say you were (though you're new-ish (you don't post much) and we don't know you yet), but someone else could read how to do it, use it for nefarious reasons, and then we've helped them.

[sk8ersublime]

To the guys who didnt like it the idea and think im out to make some money....kinda hard to do in my basement when im pretty much the only one who plays the cab, sorry.

Well, I didn't say you were (though you're new-ish (you don't post much) and we don't know you yet), but someone else could read how to do it, use it for nefarious reasons, and then we've helped them.

yea Ive been coming to this site ever since I got that itch to build a cab, just never took the time to ask questions, which is why i have a shotty cab now....haha..

But im trying to take my time with things now and make something nice, which is why you will see a lot of stuff from me lately.

I understand the issues and again...sorry haha

[Haze]

It's one thing for us to use it for our own selfish needs, but it's entirely different for others to profit off of it.

And who is talking about making a profit?


My kids love putting quarters in to play games. They can easily just open up the coin door to grab them out again, but putting them in is part of the experience.

What difference does it make if the quarter is put in before or after game selection?

None.

To your kids, none, you're exactly right, that's why we don't consider NOT supporting this feature to be a big issue, there is no legitimate reason to need it for your average user.  Your kids know when they can insert coins because you told them and if they do it wrong, you can easily give them the coins back until they learn.

For a commercial on-location cab it's essential.  Customers aren't your kids, with real customers they'll insert coins in the menu, and wonder why they don't transfer, they'll insert a coin in a game, quit the game, and wonder where their coin went.  As I've said, the development team don't want to see MAME being used in this way, so by not supporting such features, and discouraging discussion of such features the ability for people to use the software in this way is limited.

Your kids don't care, and at the same time it prevents abuse of the software in a commerical environment.  It's a win for you (and your kids), and it's a win for the development team.  The only losers are the ones looking to try and abuse the software for profit.

Arcades are struggling, and people replacing legitimate arcade cabinets with illegal multi-game cabinets isn't helping the cause.  Mamedev want *nothing* to do with that so discourage features which make it possible.

[CheffoJeffo]

I vote for a mod to just close this thread since people are getting so bent out of shape about it.

As the OP, you should be able to lock it.

FWIW, I don't think there was much in the way of people getting bent out of shape. Although people seem to take the talk about rules as being bent out of shape, it isn't. saint's rules and the mods are what keeps this place a great spot to come.

If one of the first posts had been a link to one of the prior discussions (which I was too lazy to look for initially), then the subsequent:

Follow the rules, noob.

Rulez, I don need no stinkin rulez!

Ya! You're all breaking the law anyway!

Shaddap and get offa my lawn

MAMEDevs are full of ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---

Down with the man!

Aww, not this crap again.

You're a hypocrite and a liar!

I have a thoughtful question ...

Do a search, noob!

could have been avoided.

But it was all polite and good-spirited, which is why we didn't get a saint-bomb dropped into the thread ... and we got to hear about Moon-Pies, which are always popular in arcade circles.

Play on!

[shateredsoul]

Out of curiosity.. has anyone ever seen a mame machine being used for profit? I'm rather new here, but I've heard about some guy having done that in the past? and being busted? apparently he posted in this forum but was frowned upon by the community?

other than that, have any of you ever seen a mame machine out in public? and if you did, what did you do?

If a shopkeeper had a machine in his store, but playing is free and you don't charge them to play (so no quarters needed).. is that still illegal?

I have never seen a mame machine in the US being used for profit, in Mexico I remember even as a kid seeing arcades being used (one in particular had a bunch of NES games, and a timer, it was pretty neat actually).

[sk8ersublime]

haha its all good

*inserts coin* chi-ching *GALAGA MUSIC*

[CheffoJeffo]

Out of curiosity.. has anyone ever seen a mame machine being used for profit? I'm rather new here, but I've heard about some guy having done that in the past? and being busted? apparently he posted in this forum but was frowned upon by the community?

other than that, have any of you ever seen a mame machine out in public? and if you did, what did you do?

If a shopkeeper had a machine in his store, but playing is free and you don't charge them to play (so no quarters needed).. is that still illegal?

I have never seen a mame machine in the US being used for profit, in Mexico I remember even as a kid seeing arcades being used (one in particular had a bunch of NES games, and a timer, it was pretty neat actually).

The xx-in-1 boards are MAME-based and I've seen a number of them out there. They also show up at auctions.

The "NES with a timer" you refer to may have been a Playchoice-10, which was a legitimate cabinet.

[shateredsoul]

oh yeah? It had well over 100 games

not sure if player choice cabs had that many games... maybe it was hacked to play that many?

[CheffoJeffo]

oh yeah? It had well over 100 games

Nope -- that was something else.

Playchoice-10 only had 10 games.

[versapak]

To your kids, none, you're exactly right, that's why we don't consider NOT supporting this feature to be a big issue, there is no legitimate reason to need it for your average user.  Your kids know when they can insert coins because you told them and if they do it wrong, you can easily give them the coins back until they learn.

For a commercial on-location cab it's essential.  Customers aren't your kids, with real customers they'll insert coins in the menu, and wonder why they don't transfer, they'll insert a coin in a game, quit the game, and wonder where their coin went.  As I've said, the development team don't want to see MAME being used in this way, so by not supporting such features, and discouraging discussion of such features the ability for people to use the software in this way is limited.

Your kids don't care, and at the same time it prevents abuse of the software in a commerical environment.  It's a win for you (and your kids), and it's a win for the development team.  The only losers are the ones looking to try and abuse the software for profit.

Arcades are struggling, and people replacing legitimate arcade cabinets with illegal multi-game cabinets isn't helping the cause.  Mamedev want *nothing* to do with that so discourage features which make it possible.

Yeah, you're right.

It is something doesn't matter one way or the other to me and my kids, and doesn't really effect our use of our "MAME machine", but if it does matter to those that do choose to profit from MAME, then actively NOT supporting it does make sense.

[lilshawn]

not sure i want to step into this but:

since the companies that made these games forever ago stopped supporting/selling/profiting (even no longer in business) from these games years ago....and since there is no form of "copy protection" that needs to be cracked (for some of these games anyways) shouldn't a person be able to re-introduce these games in a commercial setting if not only because the company REFUSES to do so

and i say REFUSES because you know, and i know, and everybody knows, that if you called up Atari tomorrow and asked them to build you up a "stun runner" game and send it to you they would laugh at you and hang up.

now should they feel that they should be continuing to make money from this code FOR ALL OF ETERNITY, they should continue to support the hardware too. i should be able to send them my broken boards for all of eternity and they should have to fix it for all of eternity. i should be able to phone them up on a whim and have them whip up a pac-man board because I WANT ONE.

if not then consider the following: Patents have been granted for living organisms?!?!? and colors have been trademarked!!!! Because they are systems of government granted NAY SUPPORTED monopoly is why. no person has a "right" to all of the rewards of a concept.... should we all have to be fined money because a caveman built the first house so it was his idea? shouldn't some lawyers be coming to my house because my 3 1/2 year old scribbled some magenta crayons together and they happened to resemble a particular cellular carrier logo http://www.engadget.com/photos/deutsche-telekom-t-mobile-demands-engadget-mobile-discontinue-using-the-color-magenta/#725824

not to bash one country in particular but the USA seems to think it has the right to be able to say who had an idea first, and only because everyone else thinks they have to listen and obey. i think in the beginning cavemen where to busy clubbing t-rexs and getting eaten to worry about copyrighting the club. but they seem to think that if i carve out a baseball bat in my basement i should have to pay someone??


all i'm saying is that there is a huge difference between having a mame pac-man cabinet (that otherwise is no longer in production and no longer supported by it's maker(which i would deem abandoned)) in a public location making money and trying to duplicate a knock off a current production streetfighter 4 cabinet and ripping off another company out of the sale of one of their cabs...if i cant buy that cab from the company today i should be able to mame it instead.

yes i know the devs don't want that
yes i know that money is money and today tomorrow yesterday doesn't matter.

nobody even needn't respond to my comment(s).

i am now stepping down from the soapbox falling on my face as i do so.

[shateredsoul]

uh oh, no you didn't

I do feel that we should be able to reintroduce games to the public, but not at a profit. Regardless of what we think though.. if the mame team falls under suspicion of promoting commercial use they'll get in trouble with the game companies.  Their strategy has worked so far, so why question that?

yes, I agree that it sucks how much power the USA has over patents, and the UK, and probably soon CHINA... but we do have to operate within the rules of these countries that have no issue with pressing for lawsuits.

anywho, pacman is still selling and making money 0_o

[protokatie]

Here is a VERY simple reason why MAME doesn't allow for "coin first, credit later":

People do not read instructions, and as such would throw a coin in a machine FIRST and then expect to pick a game. The number of complaints by people who "lost their money" in the machine would make the MAMEcab an impossibility in a commercial setting (unless it was running only one game, in which this scenario does not apply). For anyone who wanted to illegally use a MAMEcab for profit, they would pretty much HAVE to have a selection of games and not just one (MAMEdevs don't allow proper emulation of games less than 5 years old, for instance).

Just by having these two simple rules (No coin in before game start, and no games younger than 5 years) the dev team pretty much ensures that very little profit could be made off of a MAMEcab if it were to be used illegally. Coin in before game selection would make it too easy for someone to illegally use MAME in a more potentially profitable venture, as the average Joe is only willing to plunk in a quarter for the game that they feel nostalgia for, and having many games on the cab increases the chance someone will try to play it.

[Ginsu Victim]

all i'm saying is that there is a huge difference between having a mame pac-man cabinet (that otherwise is no longer in production and no longer supported by it's maker(which i would deem abandoned)) in a public location making money and trying to duplicate a knock off a current production streetfighter 4 cabinet and ripping off another company out of the sale of one of their cabs...if i cant buy that cab from the company today i should be able to mame it instead.

Bad example.

You can buy a current Pac-man machine. They have newer versions of several classics that are still out there making money (Pac-man, Ms Pac-man, and Galaga together in uprights and cocktails; Donkey Kong and Mario Bros together in another).

[CheffoJeffo]

And don't forget the various home use cabinet offerings. We may frown on the flimsy cabs and little screens, but companies are marketing them.

And then there is Multicade and Arcade Legends, although it appears that the licensing there may be less than proper.

[Ginsu Victim]

And Xbox Live Arcade, Wii's Virtual Console/Arcade, various companies' arcade collections, etc

[Firebat138]

Ok... I snorted a little at the moon pie comment.  :-)

This actually turned out to be a constructive thread in the long run.  :-)  I read one post and I am like " Yeah that makes sense" then the next post is totally different and I am like " Yeah... what he said."  LOL...

and I see your point...  most kids, people or whatever would just walk up to the machine and dump money in and be like hey... 
Of course if someone wanted to just emulate ONE game, this process would work with no button to ESC out, but then again, to emulate GALAGA, build the cab, PC, CP and etc, man you would have to play that machine FOREVER to make money..  :-)

Hmmm..  I spent about $2400.00 on my cab, at a quarter a pop... about 9600 times to break even...  We better bump that game up to present prices...  :-)

[CheffoJeffo]

Ok... I snorted a little at the moon pie comment.  :-)

I was being serious ... my biggest arcade-related regret is that I have never gotten moon pies from Bob Roberts!

[Firebat138]

are we talking banana flavored or regular?  :-)

[shateredsoul]

I'm sorry.. but that'll be 5 bucks a credit.  You can exchange your 5 dollars for 20 quarters at the counter.

Ok... I snorted a little at the moon pie comment.  :-)

This actually turned out to be a constructive thread in the long run.  :-)  I read one post and I am like " Yeah that makes sense" then the next post is totally different and I am like " Yeah... what he said."  LOL...

and I see your point...  most kids, people or whatever would just walk up to the machine and dump money in and be like hey... 
Of course if someone wanted to just emulate ONE game, this process would work with no button to ESC out, but then again, to emulate GALAGA, build the cab, PC, CP and etc, man you would have to play that machine FOREVER to make money..  :-)

Hmmm..  I spent about $2400.00 on my cab, at a quarter a pop... about 9600 times to break even...  We better bump that game up to present prices...  :-)

[Firebat138]

hehe...  yEah...  I remember playing some sort of sit down space vehicle game that rotated all around in a "Contact movie" like bubble in Dover, De. back in the day... like 1990 and that game was $1.00 back then...

[shateredsoul]

Yeah, I remember in like 2001/2002 theaters charged about 75c for shooters and 100 for racing games. My undergrad had an arcade, was pretty fair priced. Last I checked it out though they took it out, it wasn't making enough revenue to cover the cost of having the machines and hiring a student as cashier. it was pretty nice, they had a bunch of new games and classics. But, I also remember going there with my friends for freeplay night, we regretted spending our 10 bucks and thought we should have stayed home and play halo instead.

I guess that's why the arcade industry isn't doing too good.

[CheffoJeffo]

I was at a ChuckECheese on the weekend for with my kids, their cousin and my MiL.

I was amazed to see some very expensive simulator and driving cabs (many of which I have never seen before) going for a single token on settings that let kids play for a long time.

I was saddened to see hordes of kids lined up at every redemption machine and little interest in the "real" games, with one notable exception -- you even couldn't get close to the Metal Slug 6 cabinet.

 

[lilshawn]

all i'm saying is that there is a huge difference between having a mame pac-man cabinet (that otherwise is no longer in production and no longer supported by it's maker(which i would deem abandoned)) in a public location making money and trying to duplicate a knock off a current production streetfighter 4 cabinet and ripping off another company out of the sale of one of their cabs...if i cant buy that cab from the company today i should be able to mame it instead.

Bad example.

You can buy a current Pac-man machine. They have newer versions of several classics that are still out there making money (Pac-man, Ms Pac-man, and Galaga together in uprights and cocktails; Donkey Kong and Mario Bros together in another).

i know, i'm a little out of the loop regarding these re-releases...but i don't think they are even based on the original program at all (other than looks). i think they re wrote it.