Insert coin before selecting game? This possible?

[CheffoJeffo]

It reminds me of the people who stole PONG from that guy and then made arcades to put in donut shops and stuff, I guess the owner called a couple days later and said the machine was broke... it wasn't...  I was FULL of quarters.  :-)

Are you referring to Atari and the PONG prototype at Andy Capp's ?

[Manre Boo]

I get it ok, I get it. How you got idea I wouldn't get it.

It's also rather strange morally if you follow rules of this forum 100% but every other forums/places rules you don't care at all (or don't give a toss, I don't know what it means but I guess its same). Person with good morality would follow rules of every forum/place at same respect.

If you read my posts upper. I write that if you guys are afraid to post here just pm or email that guy to help him out.
That way its not breaking any rules and nobody knows, since post is not showing on public board. Everyone is happy.

[Haze]

as posted here any software that enables this in MAME is a big no-no as far as the development team are concerned.

It's the primary mechanism for making a commerical for-profit on-location MAME cab out of MAME, and as such is something the development team are strongly against.

[Manre Boo]

But real question is, are you against it?

Not single person has said yet do they want that arcades disappear from big crowds and became only to be accessible by arcade enthusiasts. Its allready happened in major parts of world.

[Firebat138]

It reminds me of the people who stole PONG from that guy and then made arcades to put in donut shops and stuff, I guess the owner called a couple days later and said the machine was broke... it wasn't...  I was FULL of quarters.  :-)

Are you referring to Atari and the PONG prototype at Andy Capp's ?

Hmm... might be...  I will have to look it up, but that sounds right...  I remember seeing a special on Tv a while back about it...  Didnt they pay the guy $50,000.  I thought they saw his idea at a tradeshow or something like that

[Hoopz]

Yes, we're against it.  And for your information, Haze is a long time contributor and member of the Mame team.  So, you aren't just talking to some end user but one of the key contributors to the program.  When he says that it's a not acceptable, believe him.

[Manre Boo]

Ok thanks for answering. But still you can only answer for your part, not for others.
And emulation is more than mame. You know what about people hooking NES or C64 inside cab?

 I know now that I am in forum thats strongly loyal and biased to mame. Its basically ok, but it also removes free discussion and development. That is pretty sad for community.

[CheffoJeffo]

Hmm... might be...  I will have to look it up, but that sounds right...  I remember seeing a special on Tv a while back about it...  Didnt they pay the guy $50,000.  I thought they saw his idea at a tradeshow or something like that

Nolan Bushnell saw Ralph Baer's ping pong game at a tradeshow. Later, Atari settled with Magnavox over it.

The PONG prototype was installed at Andy Capp's tavern and broke down shortly after being installed. It was overflowing with quarters.

I was going to post a link to a couple of videos, but they seem to have been taken down from ArcArc.

[CheffoJeffo]

Ok thanks for answering. But still you can only answer for your part, not for others.
And emulation is more than mame. You know what about people hooking NES or C64 inside cab?

 I know now that I am in forum thats strongly loyal and biased to mame. Its basically ok, but it also removes free discussion and development. That is pretty sad for community.

I think that we are having a language problem, because you REALLY don't understand what is being said.

The question that was asked was specifically about MAME, which is why we are talking about MAME. 

Yes, we know about emulating consoles.   

[Firebat138]

yup... that's it... just looked it up... I had a cool idea years back where millions of people could play an online game where you could be any character you want, go up in level and etc...  But I doubt it will ever take off...  :-)

[Manre Boo]

Well since Hyperspin was mentioned as frontend, and that is meant to support multiple systems at same time, i believe it wouldn't matter if other systems worked with coin lock too?

It could be made with timed mode where 1 coin buys you 10 minutes of game for example.
Similar to these things: http://gizmodo.com/379351/coin+op-nes-requires-serious-magic-fingers
Wouldn't propably need big adjustments to Hyperspin software to achieve similar system.

And yes I like to put coins in my arcade cab..Its great piggy bank at same time 

[Ginsu Victim]

And yes I like to put coins in my arcade cab..Its great piggy bank at same time 

When I asked about paying to play your MAME cab, I didn't mean this. I meant if you had to pay and you didn't get the money back. Why would anyone want to pay to play a MAME cab?

[Malenko]

I know now that I am in forum thats strongly loyal and biased to mame.

loyal; yes; biased, no.

the owner of the board doesnt want us discussing how to coin up in a menu; the devs of the software dont want us discussing how to coin up in a menu, but you think we should so you believe we're in the wrong.


To sumrize: No one is saying there isnt a benefit to being able to coin up in a menu; we are just saying that more harm then good can come from it; especially people using MAME for commercial endevors. Trust me, we all understand your point and agree its a neat idea that we just dont want to/cant discuss.

[Ginsu Victim]

Plus, there's just no reason for a home user to do it. It's just someone WANTING to do it, but it's not vital to use.

[Manre Boo]

So we canno't discuss to coin up NES or C64??

And if I was some common folk who don't got time or will to build own arcade cab, yes I would pay to play MAME cab.

[Ginsu Victim]

Well, here (USA) it's illegal.

[versapak]

When I asked about paying to play your MAME cab, I didn't mean this. I meant if you had to pay and you didn't get the money back. Why would anyone want to pay to play a MAME cab?

What difference does that make?

The natural assumption, I would have thought for a MAME cab, would be that they did get the money back, and just wanted to have the coins for a more arcade feel.


MAME being MAME is what will cause someone to want to place it commercially. I certainly don't agree with doing so, but I don't think that a coin up software will change anything one way or the other about commercial use.

Select game from front end, then put quarter in.

Put quarter in, then select game.

Either way.


I do respect Saint, and will respect his policies having been a member here for about 5 and a half years now, but I think the MAMEdev policy on this is a bunch of crap.

They make software that is probably more than 90% used for copyright violation. Whatever their intentions are stated to be, it isn't what is.

[Ginsu Victim]

It's one thing for us to use it for our own selfish needs, but it's entirely different for others to profit off of it.

[Manre Boo]

If I understand right what versapak is saying. MAME can allready be used as commercial usage, and adding coin lock to menu wouldn't change anything?

Choose game insert coin works now. It would only be other way around, insert coin choose game.
So whats really the deal here?

And please could someone answer is it allowed to discuss about coin locking NES menu?

[CheffoJeffo]

Whatever their intentions are stated to be, it isn't what is.

I'm not so sure -- if their intentions were to play games, then they wouldn't break games as often as they do by fixing the emulation and they would worry more about skipping parts of the emulation in the name of execution speed.

The fact that the vast majority of users use it for something different doesn't mean that the MAMEDevs have the same priorities.

I would wager that they are like many arcade collectors -- the joy is in the work and working out all of the little details are is more fun than playing.

If I understand right what versapak is saying. MAME can allready be used as commercial usage, and adding coin lock to menu wouldn't change anything?

MAME cannot be legally be used in a commercial setting. Period. That doesn't mean that it isn't done, only that it is illegal.

And please could someone answer is it allowed to discuss about coin locking NES menu?

Go ahead.

[versapak]

It's one thing for us to use it for our own selfish needs, but it's entirely different for others to profit off of it.

And who is talking about making a profit?


My kids love putting quarters in to play games. They can easily just open up the coin door to grab them out again, but putting them in is part of the experience.

What difference does it make if the quarter is put in before or after game selection?

None.

[CheffoJeffo]

What difference does it make if the quarter is put in before or after game selection?

None.

There are a host of people who would disagree (and also a host that would agree). The only thing that is is that the MAMEDevs don't like it and that even the guy who developed the tools in the past doesn't want deal with it.

There is a guy who is working on something like this, including credit counters like on NeoGeo cabs. it will be interesting to see what happens should he choose to release the tools to do so.

[versapak]

Whatever their intentions are stated to be, it isn't what is.

I'm not so sure -- if their intentions were to play games, then they wouldn't break games as often as they do by fixing the emulation and they would worry more about skipping parts of the emulation in the name of execution speed.

The fact that the vast majority of users use it for something different doesn't mean that the MAMEDevs have the same priorities.

I would wager that they are like many arcade collectors -- the joy is in the work and working out all of the little details are is more fun than playing.

Games get broken so as to be more purely emulated.

The intentions of the devs may be to play them or may be to do nothing more than archive them.

My point isn't their intention specifically in their programming, but what is done with their software. They know that their software is used by masses to play these games. That is what MAME is.

Now, of course they don't want it used commercially. I don't in any way condone that either, but that isn't what is being talked about here specifically.


I don't know the op's intentions, but it doesn't really matter to me. Someone that wants to put MAME in a commercial environment will, whether the coin goes in before or after game selection.



Really this topic is pretty much a moot point due to site rules, but I still felt the need to voice my objection to it.

[Ginsu Victim]

And who is talking about making a profit?

I'll quote this post:

Now if I am undestanding this issue correctly, bottom line is this:
Commercial use. Does this mean arcade machines that are made to malls and gas stations by someone who don't really own rights to those arcade games?

As now arcade cabinets are dying. Soon there will be only some very rare places where arcade cabinets even exist. Ofc us, people who build their own arcades, will still have their cabs, but major population will not have any access to arcade machines.

I dont really see any problem to bring more arcade cabs to be used by common people. Even if those arcades are brought by people who dont own legal rights to things what is inside their cabinets. Its better to have some illegal arcades than no arcades at all.

[versapak]

Ooooooooh look, I can read, and versapak can't.

Show off.








[EDIT]

Actually...

That isn't a quote from the thread starter/the guy who asked the question.


I wasn't paying attention to stupid commercial ramblings of other passerbys.

[Ginsu Victim]

Actually...

That isn't a quote from the thread starter/the guy who asked the question.


I wasn't paying attention to stupid commercial ramblings of other passerbys.

Right, but that's what I was responding to, and then you questioned my response.

[shateredsoul]

Seriously.. he does have a point.  If the whole idea is to not in anyway have mame be used for commercial uses, then it should be a goal should be to make every game auto freeplay. The potential to use mame as a commercial device is there. Don't put an escape key on the cp or any configure keys and you have something that can be used commercially.

I honestly think there is nothing wrong with being able to put in a quarter before choosing a game.  I would not see it as a negative thing if that was incorporated into some of the frontends out there.  I just don't see how adding that feature makes it any more prone to be used commercially. MAME as it is, can be used commercially.  

Still, I think we should respect the mame dev team's wishes because that's one of the rules that was setup for this forum, and to participate in the forum it would just be a respectful to follow the practices within the community. There's also a lot of activity we can't talk about because well, it just makes sense... you don't want to get yourself or others in trouble right?

Man... Did I do this...?  :-)

Since we are on the subject...  when I was younger I worked at a comic shop and another local shop had either Xmen. or TMNT, cant remember which, but in any case, they rented the machine from somewhere  The manager somehow figured out to make it free play, which I didnt even know was possible... for the employees after hours...  I guess someone got wind of it and the company took the machine back, stating they violated the rules, which they DID.  But what is really stopping people from putting a mame cabinet in your local shop or whereever... hooking up the coin slot and NOT put a coin button on...  Then using whatever front end you want...  wouldnt you just pick the game you wanted, hit select and it would still need quarters right?  I wouldnt put it past people, but I wonder if there are any cases of exactly this.

It reminds me of the people who stole PONG from that guy and then made arcades to put in donut shops and stuff, I guess the owner called a couple days later and said the machine was broke... it wasn't...  I was FULL of quarters.  :-)

[CheffoJeffo]

I honestly think there is nothing wrong with being able to put in a quarter before choosing a game.  I would not see it as a negative thing if that was incorporated into some of the frontends out there.  I just don't see how adding that feature makes it any more prone to be used commercially. MAME as it is, can be used commercially.  

It requires changing MAME and, if such a patch were supported by the MAMEDevs, that would undermine the notion of MAME as a documentation project (whether people believe that it is or not) and push it more towards being a vehicle for copyright violation. If it was my project, that isn't something that I would want.

[Kevin Mullins]

Me and my 3 year old daughter just polished off a 12 pack of mini moon-pies.......

[shateredsoul]

I'm not asking the mamedevs to support it, i'm just saying... concerning the risk of it being used commercially, I don't think having that feature included makes it more or less likely.

I honestly think there is nothing wrong with being able to put in a quarter before choosing a game.  I would not see it as a negative thing if that was incorporated into some of the frontends out there.  I just don't see how adding that feature makes it any more prone to be used commercially. MAME as it is, can be used commercially.  

It requires changing MAME and, if such a patch were supported by the MAMEDevs, that would undermine the notion of MAME as a documentation project (whether people believe that it is or not) and push it more towards being a vehicle for copyright violation. If it was my project, that isn't something that I would want.

[CheffoJeffo]

I'm not asking the mamedevs to support it, i'm just saying... concerning the risk of it being used commercially, I don't think having that feature included makes it more or less likely.

And I'm saying that is only one consideration ...

[shateredsoul]

Okay, I'm not complaining..

Just curious as to why this logic is used in some cases and not others.

I'm not asking the mamedevs to support it, i'm just saying... concerning the risk of it being used commercially, I don't think having that feature included makes it more or less likely.

And I'm saying that is only one consideration ...

[CheffoJeffo]

Okay, I'm not complaining..

Just curious as to why this logic is used in some cases and not others.

We need another rule -- only saint is allowed to top post! 

Everybody has different points of view and different experiences and not everybody posts in every thread, so you'll see various explanations and opinions.

[sk8ersublime]

HOLY CRAP!

HAHAHA

Im sorry I caused such an outburst.

Its really not a big deal, I just always found the multicade menus to be neat in the fact that my coin was in, then i selected and it transferred that credit to the selected game.

As for the "well just use free play" comments, im not a big fan of that, my cab does have a coin button of course, but putting in quarters just gives you that true arcade feeling. (and it helps when you have $100 in quarters laying around)

To the guys who didnt like it the idea and think im out to make some money....kinda hard to do in my basement when im pretty much the only one who plays the cab, sorry.

To the guys who wanted to help. Thanks!

I vote for a mod to just close this thread since people are getting so bent out of shape about it.

Lets all be friends! haha

[shateredsoul]

ha ha yeah, well as we all know.. there's certain parts of emulating that we need to tiptoe around.

Yes good point, people are getting bent out of shape BUT the risk of having people use these type of programs for profit are just an inherent issue to emulation. I can see why people would get so defensive about these things that mind attract the unwanted attention of game companies. But .. you just wanted it for your own use. Good luck with that.

[Ginsu Victim]

To the guys who didnt like it the idea and think im out to make some money....kinda hard to do in my basement when im pretty much the only one who plays the cab, sorry.

Well, I didn't say you were (though you're new-ish (you don't post much) and we don't know you yet), but someone else could read how to do it, use it for nefarious reasons, and then we've helped them.

[sk8ersublime]

To the guys who didnt like it the idea and think im out to make some money....kinda hard to do in my basement when im pretty much the only one who plays the cab, sorry.

Well, I didn't say you were (though you're new-ish (you don't post much) and we don't know you yet), but someone else could read how to do it, use it for nefarious reasons, and then we've helped them.

yea Ive been coming to this site ever since I got that itch to build a cab, just never took the time to ask questions, which is why i have a shotty cab now....haha..

But im trying to take my time with things now and make something nice, which is why you will see a lot of stuff from me lately.

I understand the issues and again...sorry haha

[Haze]

It's one thing for us to use it for our own selfish needs, but it's entirely different for others to profit off of it.

And who is talking about making a profit?


My kids love putting quarters in to play games. They can easily just open up the coin door to grab them out again, but putting them in is part of the experience.

What difference does it make if the quarter is put in before or after game selection?

None.

To your kids, none, you're exactly right, that's why we don't consider NOT supporting this feature to be a big issue, there is no legitimate reason to need it for your average user.  Your kids know when they can insert coins because you told them and if they do it wrong, you can easily give them the coins back until they learn.

For a commercial on-location cab it's essential.  Customers aren't your kids, with real customers they'll insert coins in the menu, and wonder why they don't transfer, they'll insert a coin in a game, quit the game, and wonder where their coin went.  As I've said, the development team don't want to see MAME being used in this way, so by not supporting such features, and discouraging discussion of such features the ability for people to use the software in this way is limited.

Your kids don't care, and at the same time it prevents abuse of the software in a commerical environment.  It's a win for you (and your kids), and it's a win for the development team.  The only losers are the ones looking to try and abuse the software for profit.

Arcades are struggling, and people replacing legitimate arcade cabinets with illegal multi-game cabinets isn't helping the cause.  Mamedev want *nothing* to do with that so discourage features which make it possible.

[CheffoJeffo]

I vote for a mod to just close this thread since people are getting so bent out of shape about it.

As the OP, you should be able to lock it.

FWIW, I don't think there was much in the way of people getting bent out of shape. Although people seem to take the talk about rules as being bent out of shape, it isn't. saint's rules and the mods are what keeps this place a great spot to come.

If one of the first posts had been a link to one of the prior discussions (which I was too lazy to look for initially), then the subsequent:

Follow the rules, noob.

Rulez, I don need no stinkin rulez!

Ya! You're all breaking the law anyway!

Shaddap and get offa my lawn

MAMEDevs are full of ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---

Down with the man!

Aww, not this crap again.

You're a hypocrite and a liar!

I have a thoughtful question ...

Do a search, noob!

could have been avoided.

But it was all polite and good-spirited, which is why we didn't get a saint-bomb dropped into the thread ... and we got to hear about Moon-Pies, which are always popular in arcade circles.

Play on!

[shateredsoul]

Out of curiosity.. has anyone ever seen a mame machine being used for profit? I'm rather new here, but I've heard about some guy having done that in the past? and being busted? apparently he posted in this forum but was frowned upon by the community?

other than that, have any of you ever seen a mame machine out in public? and if you did, what did you do?

If a shopkeeper had a machine in his store, but playing is free and you don't charge them to play (so no quarters needed).. is that still illegal?

I have never seen a mame machine in the US being used for profit, in Mexico I remember even as a kid seeing arcades being used (one in particular had a bunch of NES games, and a timer, it was pretty neat actually).