Insert coin before selecting game? This possible?

[sk8ersublime]

haha its all good

*inserts coin* chi-ching *GALAGA MUSIC*

[CheffoJeffo]

Out of curiosity.. has anyone ever seen a mame machine being used for profit? I'm rather new here, but I've heard about some guy having done that in the past? and being busted? apparently he posted in this forum but was frowned upon by the community?

other than that, have any of you ever seen a mame machine out in public? and if you did, what did you do?

If a shopkeeper had a machine in his store, but playing is free and you don't charge them to play (so no quarters needed).. is that still illegal?

I have never seen a mame machine in the US being used for profit, in Mexico I remember even as a kid seeing arcades being used (one in particular had a bunch of NES games, and a timer, it was pretty neat actually).

The xx-in-1 boards are MAME-based and I've seen a number of them out there. They also show up at auctions.

The "NES with a timer" you refer to may have been a Playchoice-10, which was a legitimate cabinet.

[shateredsoul]

oh yeah? It had well over 100 games

not sure if player choice cabs had that many games... maybe it was hacked to play that many?

[CheffoJeffo]

oh yeah? It had well over 100 games

Nope -- that was something else.

Playchoice-10 only had 10 games.

[versapak]

To your kids, none, you're exactly right, that's why we don't consider NOT supporting this feature to be a big issue, there is no legitimate reason to need it for your average user.  Your kids know when they can insert coins because you told them and if they do it wrong, you can easily give them the coins back until they learn.

For a commercial on-location cab it's essential.  Customers aren't your kids, with real customers they'll insert coins in the menu, and wonder why they don't transfer, they'll insert a coin in a game, quit the game, and wonder where their coin went.  As I've said, the development team don't want to see MAME being used in this way, so by not supporting such features, and discouraging discussion of such features the ability for people to use the software in this way is limited.

Your kids don't care, and at the same time it prevents abuse of the software in a commerical environment.  It's a win for you (and your kids), and it's a win for the development team.  The only losers are the ones looking to try and abuse the software for profit.

Arcades are struggling, and people replacing legitimate arcade cabinets with illegal multi-game cabinets isn't helping the cause.  Mamedev want *nothing* to do with that so discourage features which make it possible.

Yeah, you're right.

It is something doesn't matter one way or the other to me and my kids, and doesn't really effect our use of our "MAME machine", but if it does matter to those that do choose to profit from MAME, then actively NOT supporting it does make sense.

[lilshawn]

not sure i want to step into this but:

since the companies that made these games forever ago stopped supporting/selling/profiting (even no longer in business) from these games years ago....and since there is no form of "copy protection" that needs to be cracked (for some of these games anyways) shouldn't a person be able to re-introduce these games in a commercial setting if not only because the company REFUSES to do so

and i say REFUSES because you know, and i know, and everybody knows, that if you called up Atari tomorrow and asked them to build you up a "stun runner" game and send it to you they would laugh at you and hang up.

now should they feel that they should be continuing to make money from this code FOR ALL OF ETERNITY, they should continue to support the hardware too. i should be able to send them my broken boards for all of eternity and they should have to fix it for all of eternity. i should be able to phone them up on a whim and have them whip up a pac-man board because I WANT ONE.

if not then consider the following: Patents have been granted for living organisms?!?!? and colors have been trademarked!!!! Because they are systems of government granted NAY SUPPORTED monopoly is why. no person has a "right" to all of the rewards of a concept.... should we all have to be fined money because a caveman built the first house so it was his idea? shouldn't some lawyers be coming to my house because my 3 1/2 year old scribbled some magenta crayons together and they happened to resemble a particular cellular carrier logo http://www.engadget.com/photos/deutsche-telekom-t-mobile-demands-engadget-mobile-discontinue-using-the-color-magenta/#725824

not to bash one country in particular but the USA seems to think it has the right to be able to say who had an idea first, and only because everyone else thinks they have to listen and obey. i think in the beginning cavemen where to busy clubbing t-rexs and getting eaten to worry about copyrighting the club. but they seem to think that if i carve out a baseball bat in my basement i should have to pay someone??


all i'm saying is that there is a huge difference between having a mame pac-man cabinet (that otherwise is no longer in production and no longer supported by it's maker(which i would deem abandoned)) in a public location making money and trying to duplicate a knock off a current production streetfighter 4 cabinet and ripping off another company out of the sale of one of their cabs...if i cant buy that cab from the company today i should be able to mame it instead.

yes i know the devs don't want that
yes i know that money is money and today tomorrow yesterday doesn't matter.

nobody even needn't respond to my comment(s).

i am now stepping down from the soapbox falling on my face as i do so.

[shateredsoul]

uh oh, no you didn't

I do feel that we should be able to reintroduce games to the public, but not at a profit. Regardless of what we think though.. if the mame team falls under suspicion of promoting commercial use they'll get in trouble with the game companies.  Their strategy has worked so far, so why question that?

yes, I agree that it sucks how much power the USA has over patents, and the UK, and probably soon CHINA... but we do have to operate within the rules of these countries that have no issue with pressing for lawsuits.

anywho, pacman is still selling and making money 0_o

[protokatie]

Here is a VERY simple reason why MAME doesn't allow for "coin first, credit later":

People do not read instructions, and as such would throw a coin in a machine FIRST and then expect to pick a game. The number of complaints by people who "lost their money" in the machine would make the MAMEcab an impossibility in a commercial setting (unless it was running only one game, in which this scenario does not apply). For anyone who wanted to illegally use a MAMEcab for profit, they would pretty much HAVE to have a selection of games and not just one (MAMEdevs don't allow proper emulation of games less than 5 years old, for instance).

Just by having these two simple rules (No coin in before game start, and no games younger than 5 years) the dev team pretty much ensures that very little profit could be made off of a MAMEcab if it were to be used illegally. Coin in before game selection would make it too easy for someone to illegally use MAME in a more potentially profitable venture, as the average Joe is only willing to plunk in a quarter for the game that they feel nostalgia for, and having many games on the cab increases the chance someone will try to play it.

[Ginsu Victim]

all i'm saying is that there is a huge difference between having a mame pac-man cabinet (that otherwise is no longer in production and no longer supported by it's maker(which i would deem abandoned)) in a public location making money and trying to duplicate a knock off a current production streetfighter 4 cabinet and ripping off another company out of the sale of one of their cabs...if i cant buy that cab from the company today i should be able to mame it instead.

Bad example.

You can buy a current Pac-man machine. They have newer versions of several classics that are still out there making money (Pac-man, Ms Pac-man, and Galaga together in uprights and cocktails; Donkey Kong and Mario Bros together in another).

[CheffoJeffo]

And don't forget the various home use cabinet offerings. We may frown on the flimsy cabs and little screens, but companies are marketing them.

And then there is Multicade and Arcade Legends, although it appears that the licensing there may be less than proper.

[Ginsu Victim]

And Xbox Live Arcade, Wii's Virtual Console/Arcade, various companies' arcade collections, etc

[Firebat138]

Ok... I snorted a little at the moon pie comment.  :-)

This actually turned out to be a constructive thread in the long run.  :-)  I read one post and I am like " Yeah that makes sense" then the next post is totally different and I am like " Yeah... what he said."  LOL...

and I see your point...  most kids, people or whatever would just walk up to the machine and dump money in and be like hey... 
Of course if someone wanted to just emulate ONE game, this process would work with no button to ESC out, but then again, to emulate GALAGA, build the cab, PC, CP and etc, man you would have to play that machine FOREVER to make money..  :-)

Hmmm..  I spent about $2400.00 on my cab, at a quarter a pop... about 9600 times to break even...  We better bump that game up to present prices...  :-)

[CheffoJeffo]

Ok... I snorted a little at the moon pie comment.  :-)

I was being serious ... my biggest arcade-related regret is that I have never gotten moon pies from Bob Roberts!

[Firebat138]

are we talking banana flavored or regular?  :-)

[shateredsoul]

I'm sorry.. but that'll be 5 bucks a credit.  You can exchange your 5 dollars for 20 quarters at the counter.

Ok... I snorted a little at the moon pie comment.  :-)

This actually turned out to be a constructive thread in the long run.  :-)  I read one post and I am like " Yeah that makes sense" then the next post is totally different and I am like " Yeah... what he said."  LOL...

and I see your point...  most kids, people or whatever would just walk up to the machine and dump money in and be like hey... 
Of course if someone wanted to just emulate ONE game, this process would work with no button to ESC out, but then again, to emulate GALAGA, build the cab, PC, CP and etc, man you would have to play that machine FOREVER to make money..  :-)

Hmmm..  I spent about $2400.00 on my cab, at a quarter a pop... about 9600 times to break even...  We better bump that game up to present prices...  :-)

[Firebat138]

hehe...  yEah...  I remember playing some sort of sit down space vehicle game that rotated all around in a "Contact movie" like bubble in Dover, De. back in the day... like 1990 and that game was $1.00 back then...

[shateredsoul]

Yeah, I remember in like 2001/2002 theaters charged about 75c for shooters and 100 for racing games. My undergrad had an arcade, was pretty fair priced. Last I checked it out though they took it out, it wasn't making enough revenue to cover the cost of having the machines and hiring a student as cashier. it was pretty nice, they had a bunch of new games and classics. But, I also remember going there with my friends for freeplay night, we regretted spending our 10 bucks and thought we should have stayed home and play halo instead.

I guess that's why the arcade industry isn't doing too good.

[CheffoJeffo]

I was at a ChuckECheese on the weekend for with my kids, their cousin and my MiL.

I was amazed to see some very expensive simulator and driving cabs (many of which I have never seen before) going for a single token on settings that let kids play for a long time.

I was saddened to see hordes of kids lined up at every redemption machine and little interest in the "real" games, with one notable exception -- you even couldn't get close to the Metal Slug 6 cabinet.

 

[lilshawn]

all i'm saying is that there is a huge difference between having a mame pac-man cabinet (that otherwise is no longer in production and no longer supported by it's maker(which i would deem abandoned)) in a public location making money and trying to duplicate a knock off a current production streetfighter 4 cabinet and ripping off another company out of the sale of one of their cabs...if i cant buy that cab from the company today i should be able to mame it instead.

Bad example.

You can buy a current Pac-man machine. They have newer versions of several classics that are still out there making money (Pac-man, Ms Pac-man, and Galaga together in uprights and cocktails; Donkey Kong and Mario Bros together in another).

i know, i'm a little out of the loop regarding these re-releases...but i don't think they are even based on the original program at all (other than looks). i think they re wrote it.