Defender MAME Project

[martoon x]

I've been thinking about this for a long while. A mame concept based off of the original Defender arcade cabinet. http://martoon.org/defender/ It's to include a fold out control panel to accommodate up to 4 players.



I have many test renders of how It could work, but it seems I've been over thinking it. All of my previous ideas ended up being way too complicated, like how to get the side panels to fold up or to tuck the whole unit into the bottom of the cab. I believe I've finally come up with a viable solution. I'll work out some renders later this week and post it along with the bad ideas.

Afterwards, the next step will be to figure out how to get all of this:



to look like this:



 

[Octo]

  That's mighty ambitious, but I wish you the best of luck. Are you going to drill holes for the joysticks to fold into?

[martoon x]

That's mighty ambitious, but I wish you the best of luck. Are you going to drill holes for the joysticks to fold into?

Good question, when the sides fold up, they only go up 45 90 degrees and the joysticks should not end up hitting anything or end up "in" the base of the other side.


halfway to being folded up 45 90  degrees


folded up at full 45 90  degrees

[Blanka]

I think the challenge is in the hinges. Either go for a nice custom aluminium CNC-ed top plate with hinges built into (the Apple-unibody way) or to search some damn fine hidden door hinges. Piano hinges would totally destroy this.

[martoon x]

I think the challenge is in the hinges. Either go for a nice custom aluminium CNC-ed top plate with hinges built into (the Apple-unibody way) or to search some damn fine hidden door hinges. Piano hinges would totally destroy this.

I agree, i've been looking into the best way to do that. I've come across these



They're heavy duty concealed door hinges. http://www.hardwaresource.com/Store_ViewProducts.asp?Cat=603 I've seen them in action once on a high-end cabinet door once. i was wondering if anyone has had any personal experience with them.

[YoGaBaR]

That's an awesome idea!!
If you were using wood I would definitely use a strong door hinge and not use MDF but a good 7 layer plus plywood. Maybe 3/4 cabinet grade AC.  Where it would be smooth on one side and have between 11-15 layers. I would think the CP is going to be heavy. Screws may rip right out of the wood if you don't have a strong enough board or even bolt the hinges.
Sorry just my 2 pennies of thought.

[BobA]

Best of luck, a very ambitious project.  Look forward to see how it turns out.
 

[Martijn]

Nice idea.

Good Luck. You'll Need it 

[darkofpeace]

Looks real nice, keep us updated. Any reason players 3 and 4 have all those buttons?

[martoon x]

If you were using wood I would definitely use a strong door hinge and not use MDF but a good 7 layer plus plywood. Maybe 3/4 cabinet grade AC.  Where it would be smooth on one side and have between 11-15 layers. I would think the CP is going to be heavy. Screws may rip right out of the wood if you don't have a strong enough board or even bolt the hinges.
Sorry just my 2 pennies of thought.

Good point, but I also need to keep this light. So I opted to go with 1/2" instead. I should be able to add bracing for strength and still keep the weight under than if the CP was made from 3/4"

[martoon x]

This post is kind a of a big deal. It represents the first real step towards building this crazy thing.



Earlier in the week I brought home some 3/4″ plywood, but realized that it would be too thick and cumbersome for this control panel. I returned it & bought two replacement sheets , one 1/2 inch and the other 1/4 inch. Quarter inch is way too thin for a good solid control panel, but perfect for a test board. I didn’t want to spend a lot of much time cutting and drilling into something that was thicker than it needed to be, especially for just a test.



I used my plans from Illustrator to measure and lay out the marks onto the plywood for where the cuts were going to be.



Doing this test build gives me the opportunity to see what tools I’m going to need. Also to get a feel for the panel— to see where I need to tweak or make any changes.

The trackball needs to be moved over to the left. I originally laid it out so it sat dead-center on the control panel. Aesthetically, I liked the position, even though it slightly overlapped the joystick casing directly to it’s right. I thought I might be able to counter sink one or the other to make it work. Once I cut out the hole and mounted the trackball onto the board, it became apparent that no amount of counter-sinking would make it work, not to mention that quickly spinning the ball to the top-right would probably result in me snagging my hand on the joystick, bending the stick or bruising my hand. Either way, It was too close and the trackball had to be moved to the left.

To get the holes in the right place, I printed out my button positions from Illustrator which were drawn at 100%.



I printed those out to several pages and tiled them together. Laying them out on the wood, I was able to use them as a template to mark out the centerpoints.



Once the holes were tapped, I drilled. I used two paddle bits, 1 1/8″ for the buttons and spinners, and 1/4″ for the joysticks. The joystick holes seem a bit small, especially for the UltraStiks. They have a much further throw than the MagStickPlus’, so when I do the build using the thicker plywood, I’ll be sure to drill larger holes for them.



With the sample panel laid out, my next plan is to pick up some quick connectors and do a practice-wire-it-up.



Test Panel from right
That be it for now. The next step is to wrap up the plan measurements on the computer. Finalize the graphics for the overlays, bezels and stuff, do a bit more research, then begin a final build.

[martoon x]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpVt0hW3EyE&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fmartoon%2Eorg%2Fdefender%2F&feature=player_embedded#t=56

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpVt0hW3EyE&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fmartoon%2Eorg%2Fdefender%2F&feature=player_embedded#t=56[/youtube]

With the prototype panel wired and assembled, I’ve begun testing configuration and layout of the controls. This test run is performed on the iMac running “MAME Library” [url=http://www.randomsequence.com/software/mame-library/]http://www.randomsequence.com/software/mame-library/[/url] and “MAME OS X”  http://mameosx.sourceforge.net/ plugged in through the USB port. With all of the controls wired up, there are a total of 8 USB connectors coming of the top deck. Currently, I only have a 4-port USB dock, so a full test won’t be possible until I can pick up another 4-port at the local electronics store. This test run was performed using the main control deck, player two and three sticks and the trackball.

The main control deck is the top the defender layout. It contains “Ultimarc’s “Mag-Stik Plus” with 10 buttons manually wired to the I-PAC 2 board. The I-PAC was custom encoded using John Keoni Morris’s “MacIPAC.app” http://www.ultimarc.com/download.php#ipacmac The first thing noticed is how high the sticks feel from the deck. The original Defender cabinets have the stick riding closer to the deck which which gave easy access to the reverse button. These sticks screw in from the bottom and the remaining stick just up through the hole. I’ll be glad to play them once they’re sitting deeper on the final 1/2″ plywood rather than this 1/4′ test plywood. I may even toy with adding an additional spacer to sit it even lower. I like the feel of the Ultimarc control. It’s a 4-way/8-way stick with 4 switches that sit horizontal at the bottom of the shaft. They that make a satisfying “click” when they make contact.

This is the first time I found an emulated version of defender to be playable. That includes home console versions as well as MAME where I find extremely difficult to play defender using a keyboard or any of the console controllers. Having an actual deck to play from makes the game fun again. The spacing of the buttons feel great and instinctive and even though the original defender joystick was limited to up an down, the 4/8-way stick does a fine job.



Players one through four all use the Ultimark “UltraStik 360″. Although a bit pricey, these are the easiest to wire up. These controllers come with a harness to allow 7 buttons to be connected directly to the joystick and from the joystick to the computer is just one usb cable. This stick acts like a giant analog controller. I used it to play the fighting game and although it does have quite a long throw, I found it to be quite responsive. This test had Players 2 and 3 connected. I wanted to make sure two people can play comfortably. I did a test run with Mrs. Martoon where, not only did I discovered that her cat-like reflexes are a valuable asset to kicking ---my bottom--- but the controllers also have plenty of space for two people to sit side by side with adequate room to play.

The final game test was Robotron. Unfortunately, the MAME setup on my MAC does not allow for individual mapping of controls for separate games. As a result, I could not control the character using the two analog sticks. I was forced to use one stick to move and the buttons to shoot. Less than ideal. I’m hoping this will be different once I move my tests over the PC.

[Bender]

I think the challenge is in the hinges. Either go for a nice custom aluminium CNC-ed top plate with hinges built into (the Apple-unibody way) or to search some damn fine hidden door hinges. Piano hinges would totally destroy this.

I agree, i've been looking into the best way to do that. I've come across these



They're heavy duty concealed door hinges. http://www.hardwaresource.com/Store_ViewProducts.asp?Cat=603 I've seen them in action once on a high-end cabinet door once. i was wondering if anyone has had any personal experience with them.

Fantastic project! I love folding things!
after a lot of research I ended up using those hinges on my folding project
They worked out great and they're available in black which is awesome too!

good luck with this project, what a great idea

[Yvan256]

Amazing project! If you don't mind me asking, can you explain/show more pictures about how you go from picture 1 to picture 2? I don't understand how those huge "side panels" can come out of the inside of the cabinet without hitting the single-player CP that's in the middle back.

Also, will the coin door work at this angle? Or do you plan on having "credit" buttons when using the cab in 4-players configuration?

[Ryglore]

Oh wow. This is really impressive. One look at it and my brain.... 

Can't wait to see it progress!

[GaryMcT]

This is a cool project!

What is the Mac CAD program that you are using?

[martoon x]

I think the challenge is in the hinges. Either go for a nice custom aluminium CNC-ed top plate with hinges built into (the Apple-unibody way) or to search some damn fine hidden door hinges. Piano hinges would totally destroy this.

I agree, i've been looking into the best way to do that. I've come across these



They're heavy duty concealed door hinges. http://www.hardwaresource.com/Store_ViewProducts.asp?Cat=603 I've seen them in action once on a high-end cabinet door once. i was wondering if anyone has had any personal experience with them.

Fantastic project! I love folding things!
after a lot of research I ended up using those hinges on my folding project
They worked out great and they're available in black which is awesome too!

good luck with this project, what a great idea

What a cool cab your making. Brilliant! How much weight do your hinges support? That is the only thing I'm on the fence about right now. I may go the hidden hinge route or try hidden hinge like car modders use simmilar to this http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/hidden_hinge.htm  It's basically a hinge with a long bend in it as seen here:.

[martoon x]

This is a cool project!

What is the Mac CAD program that you are using?

I'm using Strata Studio Pro, Illustrator CS3, Photoshop CS3 and a little Google sketch-up

[martoon x]

Amazing project! If you don't mind me asking, can you explain/show more pictures about how you go from picture 1 to picture 2? I don't understand how those huge "side panels" can come out of the inside of the cabinet without hitting the single-player CP that's in the middle back.

Also, will the coin door work at this angle? Or do you plan on having "credit" buttons when using the cab in 4-players configuration?

The wings fold up at a 45 90 degree angle which makes the front piece narrow enough to swing down into the cab. The renders I have at the beginning of the post are preliminary. The coin door may end up being a sticker since I'll be needing as much real estate inside as possible which means I'll be hiding credit buttons somewhere. I'll post an animation of how it works later this week.

[martoon x]

Oh wow. This is really impressive. One look at it and my brain.... 

Can't wait to see it progress!

Thanks, me too 

[blackwatchplad]

Very neat project you've set out to tackle. I really like the idea of it all and good luck, I'm sure u can pull it off with enough engineering.
Also, I can't help but to hear the transformers theme in my head when i look at those first pics lol

[GaryMcT]

I like the fact that it only has a honking huge control panel when it needs to.

[Bender]

I'm guessing, but I'd say 30lbs over two hinges. I'd go with 3 hinges per side for you design (of the largest ones they make)

the hardest part is routeing out the insets for those suckers. I think rockler sales a jig for them. I'd be curious how well they worked.
I did a bunch of practice runs on scrap, then marked my router table to make sure I had the right dimensions

[jeef]

The wings fold up at a 45 degree angle

Do you mean 90 degrees?

Looking forward to seeing this one progress

[martoon x]

The wings fold up at a 45 degree angle

Do you mean 90 degrees?

Looking forward to seeing this one progress

haha, yes, 90 degrees. thanks.

[drventure]

Holy Hell!

How did I miss this thread

That is one AWESOMELY cool design you have there. Hell, if there was a way to put a steering wheel on that pop out instead of a trackball.... Ack, No... More.... Projects.... Right..... Now......

Very cool though. Looking forward to more pics.

And if you hook up linear actuators to that thing, I may just have to start stalking you 

[martoon x]

I'm guessing, but I'd say 30lbs over two hinges. I'd go with 3 hinges per side for you design (of the largest ones they make)

the hardest part is routeing out the insets for those suckers. I think rockler sales a jig for them. I'd be curious how well they worked.
I did a bunch of practice runs on scrap, then marked my router table to make sure I had the right dimensions

I think I found the hinges i'll be using.

[martoon x]

I'm guessing, but I'd say 30lbs over two hinges. I'd go with 3 hinges per side for you design (of the largest ones they make)

the hardest part is routeing out the insets for those suckers. I think rockler sales a jig for them. I'd be curious how well they worked.
I did a bunch of practice runs on scrap, then marked my router table to make sure I had the right dimensions

I think I found the hinges i'll be using.

I ran some render tests and it looks like I wont be able to get these to work. Probably going to have to go with the Soss hinges

[martoon x]

Amazing project! If you don't mind me asking, can you explain/show more pictures about how you go from picture 1 to picture 2? I don't understand how those huge "side panels" can come out of the inside of the cabinet without hitting the single-player CP that's in the middle back.

Also, will the coin door work at this angle? Or do you plan on having "credit" buttons when using the cab in 4-players configuration?

The wings fold up at a 45 90 degree angle which makes the front piece narrow enough to swing down into the cab. The renders I have at the beginning of the post are preliminary. The coin door may end up being a sticker since I'll be needing as much real estate inside as possible which means I'll be hiding credit buttons somewhere. I'll post an animation of how it works later this week.

[youtube][/youtube]
[flash]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZOyWbICsno[/flash]

A lot of the geometry profiles in this model are built full size in illustrator then imported to Strata, extruded and positioned. It ensures everything fits the way it's supposed to and that I'll also have a full parts list when complete.

[GaryMcT]

Freakin awesome!

[martoon x]

Freakin awesome!

Yeah, getting close!

[Yvan256]

The hinge is in the inside of the cab, no wonder I couldn't understand how it was able to fold inside!

Wow, I can't wait to see you build all that! 

[drventure]

Are you planning to make the whole front pivot in the middle like that?

Is there are reason for that? I'd just think that making the bottom part of the front panel fixed and only hinging the top would give you mode usable space on the inside for the PC, and other equipment.

But who am I to nitpick. That's going to be one awesome cab! Put some little hands on those fold out wings and you'll almost have a "transformers" cab 

[Vebbo]

OMG, i'm having a hard time just to make a new CP and some other minor stuff but this.....  Wish u good luck on this übercool project 

[Ond]

These guys that model everything 1st in 3D are just cheating as far as I'm concerned......

 

[Hewskie]

Wow. I was pretty skeptical until I saw that 3d video. This thing looks amazing, good luck with the construction, I hope you start soon! 

Hewskie

[Zakk]

Totally awesome.  Being watched by the Mamey judges, if that's any extra incentive 

[shrunkenmaster]

Great idea, this. Wish I had the stones to attempt it! Look forward to construction.

[martoon x]

Are you planning to make the whole front pivot in the middle like that?

Is there are reason for that? I'd just think that making the bottom part of the front panel fixed and only hinging the top would give you mode usable space on the inside for the PC, and other equipment.

But who am I to nitpick. That's going to be one awesome cab! Put some little hands on those fold out wings and you'll almost have a "transformers" cab 

I'm pretty sure all of the computer parts should fit in there. My bigger concern are the dangly wires and the constant bending and stress as this thing is folded and unfolded. 

[martoon x]

These guys that model everything 1st in 3D are just cheating as far as I'm concerned......

 

I agree!!