Buzz Aldrin knocks out a reporter

[ahofle]

http://www.ethicalatheist.com/docs/benefits_of_space_program.html
http://techtran.msfc.nasa.gov/at_home.html

More generally, benefits of the space program.

[patrickl]

I could only think of Teflon. Which are some of the others?

Start here?

http://www.sti.nasa.gov/tto/shuttle.htm

For lunar lander related "technological advances used in everyday life"?

Just also (like Level42) spotted that Teflon is not an invention related to lunar landings. I guess you could argue that it's use in the lunar landings started it's breakthrough, but that's a bit of a stretch.

[patrickl]

More generally, benefits of the space program.

The question was specifically about the lunar landing.

[Ed_McCarron]

For lunar lander related "technological advances used in everyday life"?

Why you gotta be like that?

OK, start here:

http://www.sti.nasa.gov/spinoff/spinsearch?BOOL=AND&ALLFIELDS=&CENTER=&BOOLM=AND&MANUFACT=&STATE=&CATEGORY=&ISSUE=&Spinsort=ISSUE

I guess you're right tho, that database only starts in 1976, and the moon landing was in '69...  Stupid worthless space program.

[patrickl]

Funny how no-one can actually name something......mmmmmm, maybe there wasn't anything

Well there has to be something. When you spend a lot of money, basically invent a whole new industry, there has to be some spinoff that can be used in other areas too.

[patrickl]

For lunar lander related "technological advances used in everyday life"?

Why you gotta be like that?

Well, I'm wondering what Saint is referring too. I saw people naming Teflon, Tang and Velcro. All these were actually invented just (around a decade or two) before the lunar landings. I guess their rise to fame coincided with their use during the lunar landings and so people falsely assume they are results off the lunar landing program. Still, they aren't really.

[Level42]

I'm not discussing the benefits of space programs, but that of _moon_ landing missions.

Have we all forgotten what the Apollo program was REALLY about ?

It was about a stupid race between the US and the USSR to put a man first on the moon. Why ?

It was a spin-off of the cold-war.

A way (they thought) to prove which "side" was "better". Also to frighten each-other even more....

[Jdurg]

Teflon was simply one of the more serendipitous "accidents" we've come across.   

[Ed_McCarron]

If it wasn't for the moon landing, we'd  never have built the moon-based launch site for the giant space ark.

Remember a few years back, when the earth was about to be destroyed by a giant asteroid?

The government put us all into the giant space ark, and sent us to the planet we live on now?

Remember?

Then, they decided not to tell the stupid people because they were afraid it'd cause a pani...

Oh.

[SavannahLion]

Is panache really even an ingredient, let alone the number one ingredient in rebuilding NASA from the ground up?   

It is if you want your new NASA to be fabulous.

How about some balls? I don't know about anyone else, but I got bored with space walks since the late 90's. Want to ignite interest in the space program again? Put your astronauts into a life threatening situation, plop a research facility right onto the surface of the moon or send their asses to Mars for a walk-about. Enough of the stupid remote controled rovers and lost Beagles, send a human to land and see if we don't screw up again.

[RayB]

This whole "what did it give us" type of cynicism is what has caused many great American companies to fall like cards. The MBAs move in, criticise the "waste" of "pointless research" and cut them off.

Science is all about exploration and knowledge. Some questions don't get answered. Some beget more questions. Sometimes its decades of "useless knowledge" that finally springs forth the next great advances, like transistors, photography, television...  Some enable us to land a hunk of metal on another planet and beam back photos!

How's this for what it brought us:

A humbling view of our own little ball of dirt and water floating in space.
Sights that only a handful of people among our 6 billion will ever get to see.
PRIDE in the ingenuity that humans are capable of when they come together as a team.

All of these are priceless despite the "real world" costs attached to them.

[mountain]

Don't forget

[DaOld Man]

There should be an American flag on that moon buggy.....
since WE GOT THERE FIRST!!!!!
 

[patrickl]

This whole "what did it give us" type of cynicism is what has caused many great American companies to fall like cards. The MBAs move in, criticise the "waste" of "pointless research" and cut them off.

The Space (Moon) race was a propaganda effort. Nothing more nothing less.

Everything we do ought to really be tied in to getting on to the moon ahead of the Russians [...] otherwise we shouldn't be spending that kind of money, because I'm not interested in space [...] The only justification for [the cost] is because we hope to beat [the USSR] to demonstrate that instead of being behind by a couple of years, by God, we passed them.

Whatever he said in private, Kennedy needed a different message to gain public support to uphold what he was saying and his views. Later in 1963, Kennedy asked Vice President Johnson to investigate the possible technological and scientific benefits of a Moon mission. Johnson concluded that the benefits were limited, but, with the help of scientists at NASA, he put together a powerful case, citing possible medical breakthroughs and interesting pictures of Earth from space.

Indeed as a propaganda thing, it really succeeded. It knocked down the USSR a notch and to this day it's the coolest thing any country has done. Even if it's useless, but then why do we watch sports?

Even so, spending that much money and doing a lot of research, there must have been some research results that spilled over in normal life. Maybe it's been too long ago for this to still be in use or something? I remember that when I was a kid, the first one grip faucet was being claimed to have been the result of space age research. That was way after the lunar landings though.

[ark_ader]

What did we get out of the space missions and going to the moon?

Kennedy said we are going to the moon, and America answered the call and we did it.  Not Russia, not China or Europe.

Shows that we have the power to do anything, thus the reason why Americans are the leaders of the world, the rest of the globe follows.

We go into space because we can.

You cannot get any better than that.  Don't like that?  Get over it! 

[DaOld Man]

Amen Brother!

Back to the original post: Way to go Mr. Aldrin!

[Singapura]

What did we get out of the space missions and going to the moon?

Kennedy said we are going to the moon, and America answered the call and we did it.  Not Russia, not China or Europe.

Shows that we have the power to do anything, thus the reason why Americans are the leaders of the world, the rest of the globe follows.

We go into space because we can.

You cannot get any better than that.  Don't like that?  Get over it! 

What complete and utter nonsense. The US went to the moon because they had the resources to do it. It doesn't have anything to do with one nation being better then another nation just that one nation had more money to do it. If Donald Trump decides to hire a football team that becomes world champion, it doesn't mean he's good at playing football. It just was a pissing contest on a global scale. The conspiracy theorists just like to say it didn't happen because it makes their miserable boring little lives a bit more interesting.

[Jdurg]

One thing the moon mission DID do was increase space funding more which allowed more modern technologies to exist.  Computers today are light and small, and I'd be hard pressed to believe that the research into that wasn't caused by space exploration needs.  A LOT of technology today didn't come out directly from the moon mission, but did develop from later space exploration research that wouldn't have existed without the moon mission.

[Level42]

Computers today are light and small, and I'd be hard pressed to believe that the research into that wasn't caused by space exploration needs. 

FYI, the Space Shuttle's main computer was run by a processor that was already obsolete after a couple of years.
Computers didn't get small because of space needs, they became small because of the advancing technology (from relays to tubes, from tubes to transistors, from transistors to IC's. The technology to do it was developed first, then the computers became smaller.

I'm not going to respond to Arc_Ader's response because that's something for the political section and there's a reason why I don't want to be allowed there

[ark_ader]

Computers today are light and small, and I'd be hard pressed to believe that the research into that wasn't caused by space exploration needs. 

FYI, the Space Shuttle's main computer was run by a processor that was already obsolete after a couple of years.
Computers didn't get small because of space needs, they became small because of the advancing technology (from relays to tubes, from tubes to transistors, from transistors to IC's. The technology to do it was developed first, then the computers became smaller.

I'm not going to respond to Arc_Ader's response because that's something for the political section and there's a reason why I don't want to be allowed there

Nothing political about it. Its history. 

See how the world reacts to American Markets today and you will see that the history of the last 40 years is repeating itself.  If it wasn't for the involvement of the USA during WW2 Europe of today would still be German.  America was and still is the leader of commerce, and foreign policy.  I'd hate to think what would have happened to Russia if America didn't help out when Hitler broke the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.  Well Russia wouldn't have gone to the moon, lets say that.

I don't have to look at it as a political stance, I'm just invoking history.  What we have accomplished as a global power in 60 years is just quite amazing.

We have computers that are smaller and faster, that was originated by WW2 mechanics.  The story from Enigma to Colossus to the Duo and Quad Core processors of today is brought in part of defeating Hitler's Third Reich and their code system. 

We can thank Bill Gates for bringing the price down with respect to Windows and having a computer on every desktop, thank Ross Perot for screwing up IBM (and helping out Steve Jobs by funding OS X).

Heck if it wasn't from the help from the ruins of the Wehrmacht and V2 wizard of the day, Wernher Von Braun, the space program wouldn't have left the ground until much later.

Did anyone watch the Discovery Channel and the series about NASA last month?  All those space missions to the moon, and no base of operations on the moon.  Everything just stopped.

Was it because going to the moon was over rated or was it due to the government spending at the time?

History dictates my post, Level 42 not politics. 

[grantspain]

hey ark do you have an american accent yet,trying to get my head round a lancashire/nevada dialect.
ay up duck ---goshdarn--- muther

[Grasshopper]

We can thank Bill Gates for bringing the price down with respect to Windows and having a computer on every desktop, ...

Not really. We can thank the clone manufacturers who reverse-engineered the IBM PC's BIOS, and also thank IBM for their complacency and stupidity. Microsoft simply took advantage of the situation and then created a monopoly of their own.

[danny_galaga]

What did we get out of the space missions and going to the moon?

Kennedy said we are going to the moon, and America answered the call and we did it.  Not Russia, not China or Europe.

Shows that we have the power to do anything, thus the reason why Americans are the leaders of the world, the rest of the globe follows.

We go into space because we can.

You cannot get any better than that.  Don't like that?  Get over it! 

HAD

by the way, no one has mentioned the asstastic wonder that is Teflon (tm)! apparently that was an offshoot of the space race. and those pens that can write upside down...

[shmokes]

Yes, why has nobody mentioned Teflon, LMAO?

Here are a couple links to Apollo technology making our lives better:

http://space.about.com/od/toolsequipment/ss/apollospinoffs_3.htm
http://space.about.com/od/toolsequipment/ss/apollospinoffs_2.htm
http://space.about.com/od/toolsequipment/ss/apollospinoffs.htm

[patrickl]

Yes, why has nobody mentioned Teflon, LMAO?

I could only think of Teflon.

Ha, teflon was commercially released in 1946 !

http://www.mindfully.org/Plastic/Teflon/Teflon-HistoryDuPont.htm

I guess those 3 list explains why noone remembers these advances (other than technological advances being stressed by NASA I'll bet)

[ark_ader]

hey ark do you have an american accent yet,trying to get my head round a lancashire/nevada dialect.
ay up duck ---goshdarn--- muther

No mate, I have a pretty good Yorkshire accent I put on when I want to, a good Lancashire accent when I'm domicile in the UK.

My American accent gives me away, and usually kicks in when I'm tired, but I really don't care anymore - besides the girls over here think its great and its an ideal way to pull them. 

Youreet mecocker!

[Level42]

See how the world reacts to American Markets today and you will see that the history of the last 40 years is repeating itself.

Indeed, a number of extremely greedy people there screwed a number of very dumb people (hey, I can get a mortgage at 1% interest............DUH !) and now there's a recession there. Well done. I think Europe will have a lot less impact because our economy is still running fine. (See: Dollar-Euro rate). We are not that depended on the US anymore.

If it wasn't for the involvement of the USA during WW2 Europe of today would still be German.

Yes, but when did the US get involved ? NOT when Poland was invaded, NOT when the rest of Europe was invaded....no, it took Pearl Harbor....and the Russians.....they didn't want the Russians to take over here. But I agree, I am very thankful of the US, Canadian, UK help because that made it possible to write this in all freedom.

America was and still is the leader of commerce, and foreign policy. 

What has that to do with the moon-landing race ? And how long will it last ? China and India are picking up really fast.

I don't have to look at it as a political stance, I'm just invoking history.  What we have accomplished as a global power in 60 years is just quite amazing.

I don't doubt that. Not always was it successful though....Korea,Vietnam, Irak, Afghanistan....for one second turn off your patriotic feelings and look at it without prejudice....

We have computers that are smaller and faster, that was originated by WW2 mechanics.  The story from Enigma to Colossus to the Duo and Quad Core processors of today is brought in part of defeating Hitler's Third Reich and their code system.

I actually read quite a lot about technology in WW2 and believe me, the Germans were superior in each and every way possible. Electronics (planes guided by crossing radio beams, rocket technology, the first jet-fighter etc.). Enigma, indeed a very good example. It would NEVER have been cracked if they didn't get an actual Enigma machine in hands....

We can thank Bill Gates for bringing the price down with respect to Windows and having a computer on every desktop....(and helping out Steve Jobs by funding OS X).

That was a joke right ? Yeah, that has to be a joke.
If not please explain about the funding of OS X...

Heck if it wasn't from the help from the ruins of the Wehrmacht and V2 wizard of the day, Wernher Von Braun, the space program wouldn't have left the ground until much later.

AHA, now we're getting somewhere. So, you admit you needed a EUROPEAN to get the space program from the ground ! The rockets used for the Apollo missions were based on the V2's technology. If the Russians would have gotten to Von Braun before the US, who would have been the first on the moon ?

History dictates my post, Level 42 not politics. 

History as taught on US schools I guess....

And HERE is where I stop because I could be understood wrong and people might think I'm "against" the US or something like that, which is NOT the case (love it there, been two times and will come back soon). I admire the things that were invented in the US (videogames, pinballs etc. etc.). I love the freedom you guys got there, compared to our patronizing government that holds everyone in a choking hold (taxes, RULES !). But that doesn't mean it's heaven there and stories always have two or more sides, not one.

[ark_ader]

You like reading eh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Perot

I was astonished as you with regard to NeXt.

Edit:

I was going to let you figure that one out Level 42, but I won't be so tight.   
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeXT

With regard to your reply I won't quote you but correct you on these points:

With regard to commerce - funding was a major part of the Moon landing venture.  If the US did not have this funding, the US population would have condemmed it.

With regard to the US entering into WW2 - The US helped Britian gain munitions by selling arms for land, except for the land deals the same went for the Russians after the Germans turned on them.  The UK was lucky that Hitler was a nutjob or he would have walked in with his big black book.

The remark that Germans were advanced, yes this is true, but the British developed the jet engine before anyone else, but the government at the time did not fund it.  Radar, and the Colussus all British and American technology.  Quite an important feat considering the tools used and the lives it took to get it perfect, which made turning point of the war, all contributed to the technology of the moon landings.

Yes you were being naughty with references to recent US wars in your post, which was not on topic. 

So you see you are not as clever as you try to make out to be, but I will allow you to reply to my post and thus get the last word in.   

[missioncontrol]

Shuttle was responsible for getting the GOES satellites in orbit, which helps in tracking weather patterns...

http://www.goes.noaa.gov/

[ark_ader]

We can thank Bill Gates for bringing the price down with respect to Windows and having a computer on every desktop, ...

Not really. We can thank the clone manufacturers who reverse-engineered the IBM PC's BIOS, and also thank IBM for their complacency and stupidity. Microsoft simply took advantage of the situation and then created a monopoly of their own.

You might want to read up on that buddy.

When I finished school at 16 I went into the computer business with an American firm selling Banyan VINES networks and those PCXTs.  They were no way near cheap or plentiful as you would like to think it was.  Heck Microsoft wasn't even a blip on the radar then, maybe DOS, but that was about it.

Thinking back all those years ago, I knew then where the market was going, with our sales going through the roof, and Novell just starting out.  Those were the days to turn a serious buck.  If I was only more aggresive in marketing, I would be rich today. 

[Singapura]

Hate to burst your bubble arc_ader but same quotes, different replies:

If it wasn't for the involvement of the USA during WW2 Europe of today would still be German.

In fact, after the botched Operation Market Garden, the US left the liberation of The Netherlands to the Canadians. This delay caused thousands of Dutch to starve in the "hongerwinter". The city of Arnhem was finally liberated by I Canadian Corps on 14 April 1945 after two days of fighting. A surrender of the remaining German forces in the west of the Netherlands was signed on May 5.

America was and still is the leader of commerce, and foreign policy.

You should really come and visit Asia or The Middle East. The Bush administration has erased much of the goodwill the US once had. The weakening dollar and the credit crunch is doing the rest. The major US banks are being bought up by Sovereign Wealth Funds from Qatar and Kuwait. More info on that can be found here and here

I don't have to look at it as a political stance, I'm just invoking history.

We have computers that are smaller and faster, that was originated by WW2 mechanics.  The story from Enigma to Colossus to the Duo and Quad Core processors of today is brought in part of defeating Hitler's Third Reich and their code system.

Interesting that you mention the Enigma machine. This device was built by the Germans, discovered by the British and deciphered with help of Polish intelligence. No US element was involved.  Later a movie was made that claimed that it was the US that discovered the Enigma. Is that the history you base you claims on?

When I finished school at 16

Ah, that explains a lot 

[Ed_McCarron]

When I finished school at 16

Ah, that explains a lot 

You never know... He could have finished college at 16...

[Mauzy]

Ha. Glad to see I can start a rather decent debate with a 30 second video. 

[ark_ader]

When I finished school at 16

Ah, that explains a lot 

You never know... He could have finished college at 16...

Degree at 18, certified technician at 17.  Not too shabby.

[Singapura]

Degree at 18, certified technician at 17.  Not too shabby.

Good for you!  All that and a keen sense of history too.

[ark_ader]

When I finished school at 16

Ah, that explains a lot 

Thanks.

Most of your reply belongs to the P n R forum.

I am speaking about past history, not current events.  Allied ignorance allowed WW2 to happen.  What result came out of it, benefitted the US and their space program, raised the bar on human tragedy and suffering and provided a mechanism for understanding to provide a way for history to repeat itself time and time again.

Congrats to Buzz for making us remember the space program and the moon landings and those who perished to achieve it.  Even though his act upon that sad individual shows again how violence and conflict reflects and invokes history yet again.

[Singapura]

As Winston Churchill said, "History is written by the victor." My reply was just pointing out inaccuracies in your interpretation. I don't need politics to do that. I'm a big fan of Buzz and his colleagues. But as the text on the plaque they left behind mentions: We came in peace for all mankind. Not only Americans. It was an accumulation of international scientific breakthroughs that put a man on the moon.  As for current events; now more than ever the US should realize it needs other countries just as much as other countries need the US. There's not a word of politics in that.

[SavannahLion]

We can thank Bill Gates for bringing the price down with respect to Windows and having a computer on every desktop....(and helping out Steve Jobs by funding OS X).

That was a joke right ? Yeah, that has to be a joke.
If not please explain about the funding of OS X...

Umm.. well, whatever people want to believe about Gates I guess. In any case. Microsoft made software for Apple computers for years. Don't know (or care) if they still do it now. I'm also not aware of Microsoft directly funding OSX developement. The only money I'm aware of that flowed from MS to Apple is the bailout in 1997. It pissed a lot of Apple fans off, but without it and the court case it was trying to fight against MS, it's probably unlikely Apple could have survived any longer.

[SavannahLion]

I'm also not aware of Microsoft directly funding OSX developement.

Go reread the post, he was referring to Ross Perot.  And, yes, Ross Perot provided a lot of funding for OSX.

Oops, yes indeed. I missed that looking over the original post. Corrected then.

[ark_ader]

As Winston Churchill said, "History is written by the victor." My reply was just pointing out inaccuracies in your interpretation. I don't need politics to do that. I'm a big fan of Buzz and his colleagues. But as the text on the plaque they left behind mentions: We came in peace for all mankind. Not only Americans. It was an accumulation of international scientific breakthroughs that put a man on the moon.  As for current events; now more than ever the US should realize it needs other countries just as much as other countries need the US. There's not a word of politics in that.

Agreed.  Thank you for pointing that out to me.