Fighting a Traffic Ticket in Court - UPDATE: I WON!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jdurg]

There are no random light changes.  They all happen on a specific timeframe with specific intervals between yellow and red.  Always.

Actually, here in New England there are plenty of lights that aren't on timers.  They are on trip sensors that sense when a car is going by a certain point.  Then, the lights will change if the sensors have been tripped by cars on certain roads.

[Jdurg]

UH, the yellow lights are designed precisely to to give a driver enough time to either come to a stop or proceed through if "past the point of no return".

If you find yourself past the point of no return when the light is just turning red, you were either doing one or all of these:
A. Were going to fast.
B. Were not paying enough attention.

In either case YOU are responsible for your vehicle ending up in the intersection when the light was red. Rationalize it all you want, you're guilty of that, so take the punishment. I'm glad you got caught. It really pisses me off when I see people just pushing to get through yellows up until the last second. That's just not safe.

Yes.  The yellow light, according to the LAW, means that the green light privileges are terminating and red light is coming up.  If you are at the point of no return (where you must legally stop your car at a red light) when the light is just turning yellow, you know that you have to continue going through.  That is what I did.  I did not break the law and I will prove it in court.  Take a look at the picture I posted and see where I was when the light turned red.  I am right.

[tommy]

There are no random light changes.  They all happen on a specific timeframe with specific intervals between yellow and red.  Always.

When you're driving down any random road you do not know when the light is going to change, there are times when you just happen to be at the wrong spot at the right time and can be seen as breaking the law. The thing is to what degree did you pass the light and did you or did you not have a chance to stop or have to keep going, this is too close to call from a cop sometimes and the cop can be wrong at times.

What if you squeal your breaks at an attempt to stop and make a big scene in the middle of the road attempting to stop when you really cannot and end up sitting in the middle of the road. Just keep driving, you will get a ticket either way.

[ChadTower]

Actually, here in New England there are plenty of lights that aren't on timers.  They are on trip sensors that sense when a car is going by a certain point.  Then, the lights will change if the sensors have been tripped by cars on certain roads.

I am in MA.  There aren't very many of those at all, and most of the ones out there in southern MA are for turning a low volume light to green when it is already red.

[Jdurg]

Actually, here in New England there are plenty of lights that aren't on timers.  They are on trip sensors that sense when a car is going by a certain point.  Then, the lights will change if the sensors have been tripped by cars on certain roads.

I am in MA.  There aren't very many of those at all, and most of the ones out there in southern MA are for turning a low volume light to green when it is already red.

I'm in SE Connecticut near Groton/New London and these lights exist everywhere in the more urban areas.

[ChadTower]

Fair enough... doesn't help this guy's case, though, since if it were tripping by his passage he would have exactly the right amount of time to either stop or make the intersection.   

[saint]

POST REMOVED SO NOT TO ANNOY SAINT

Awww.... I didn't get to use my icon....

[missioncontrol]

so let me get this straight... you were able to see the light turn red while you were under it? definitely sounds like you tried to beat the light....

[ChadTower]

so let me get this straight... you were able to see the light turn red while you were under it? definitely sounds like you tried to beat the light....

Blinded by the light
Revved up like a Deuce
Another runner in the night

[Jdurg]

so let me get this straight... you were able to see the light turn red while you were under it? definitely sounds like you tried to beat the light....

Yes, since due to the nature of the intersections there the only place they can safely put the actual traffic light is almost directly in the intersection itself.  I was past the line that denotes where the automobiles must stop.  According to Connecticut Traffic Laws, that stop line defines where the intersection begins.

[ChadTower]

Here is a better look at the left turn in question:

[tommy]

This is really why he ran the light, he was not even driving. 

[Jdurg]

Here is a better look at the left turn in question:

 

Nice.  I think this thread needed that.   

[Samstag]

Sometimes you just have to deal with the lights as they are rather than how you'd like them to be.

[Daniel270]

Here is a better look at the left turn in question:

You sure it wasn't something more like this? 

[ahofle]

The only time I've ever fought a ticket the cop showed up on his day off.  Turns out it was right in front of his damn house - the ticket was for 20 in a 15 on a barely used back road - and he doesn't like people driving through his little block at all.  Stupid, stupid Rhode Island.  Burned a vacation day and got the full fine and points on my license/insurance hit.

That cop should start driving 10MPH on his road to jam up traffic for miles and thus keep his road safer.   

[ChadTower]

That cop should start driving 10MPH on his road to jam up traffic for miles and thus keep his road safer.   

   There's barely any traffic on that street, though.  He'd be backing up big wheels and skateboards.

[Jdurg]

I just spoke with a friend of mine who just got a law degree and she said a few simple things;

1):  Don't make things up.  Honesty, even if it won't support your case, is noted.
2):  Learn the Law.  Read through the statute you are accused of violating and break it down piece by piece.  The Prosecution must prove that you violated all aspects of said statute in order for you to be found guilty.  If one aspect of that statute is something not applicable to your infraction, you are Not Guilty.
3):  Request the Police Officer's notes.  By Law, the Police Officer must provide you with all notes relating to the incident prior to the court date.  You must, however, make the official request.  Bring a copy of this official request with you to court.  If the Officer has not provided you with the notes you requested you can ask that the judge require the Officer to provide you with the notes before a certain date.  If that date comes and goes and you still have not been sent the notes, you can legally request the case be dismissed.  (Therefore, you must request the notes be sent via a trackable courier service so you can have evidence of its delivery or failure of).
4):  Keep thing short and to the point.  No "fluff" should be used to try and sway the judge.
5):  For Stoplight/Stopsign violations, bring a detailed diagram of the area in which the incident took place denoting where you were and where the cop was when the "incident" happened.  By having the officer's notes you'll be able to see what he will be stating and if he made no details as to his position and your position, your appearence with detailed diagrams will help your side of the argument.
6):  Take photos of the area at that particular time of the night.
7):  Show up wearing a suit and tie so that you will appear to show respect for the court.
:  Never look at the police officer unless he is talking to you directly.  Always face the judge.
9):  Look the judge in the eyes when responding and when listening.
10):  ALWAYS address the court as "your honor".


Those were the 10 things that she said I really have to follow to have a chance with this.  Of course, if the officer fails to show up for the trial then I win by default.  She just said that it's critical to get a copy of the officers notes.  They are required to write down every last detail of what happened that resulted in the traffic ticket.  If you get a copy of his notes and see that he did not diagram out what happened or did something which would result in his view of your car being obscured, you'll have a greater chance of success.  Even if you just request the notes of the officer, it will show that you have an intent to defend yourself to the fullest and will cause the officer to review his paperwork and notes relating to your case.  In some cases the officer will review his notes and realize that he may not win the case and will just retract the ticket prior to trial.  

So I have a bit of research to do to further back my case up, but my friend did say that I've probably got a 50/50 chance of the case being completely wiped away with a far more likely chance that the officer will suggest some other action not resulting in a ticket.

[ChadTower]

Is it really worth all that effort?  What are the penalties/insurance hit?

[shardian]

I would think that unless you are in a tiny hillbilly town in which the sole income of the town is tickets, you would only get a warning for something like this. Either the cop was on his period, or you did something to piss him off.

I've only been caught with the yellow light thing once and I had the ultimate defense with me - a pissed off pregnant wife. I ended up with a warning, an apology, AND a sympathetic nod.

[boykster]

I just don't speed, run stale yellow/ red lights, and even come to a complete stop at stop signs!  Sure, I might get to where i'm going a whole minute or two later than you do, but

Haven't had a traffic violation in over 18 years 

[patrickl]

I'd love to see someone present an "I wasn't paying enough attention to stop safely" defense.   

I was in court myself once (I got cought with my radar detector and got called to court instead of a fine) and an elderly couple ahead of me tried to pull off the "I wasn't paying attention so it wasn't my fault" defense. The guy was looking at a speedboat on the water and rear ended the car in front of him. A cop fined him for not paying attention and the guy went to court thinking the judge would be lenient on him since his wife pointed out the boat to him. Seriously bizarre.

The guy after him tried the "I thought the speed sign near road works was just an advisory speed instead of an actual speed limit" defense. Seriously! The judge really ripped that guy apart. It was hilarious. He had to pay something like 800 euro though (120km/h in a 70km/h zone and road works doubles the fine).

In both cases the judge increased the settlement they were offered by 20%. Just for wasting his time.

[Jdurg]

I would think that unless you are in a tiny hillbilly town in which the sole income of the town is tickets, you would only get a warning for something like this. Either the cop was on his period, or you did something to piss him off.

I've only been caught with the yellow light thing once and I had the ultimate defense with me - a pissed off pregnant wife. I ended up with a warning, an apology, AND a sympathetic nod.

After seeing a boatload of cop cars on the roads in the areas last night and today (all of them in tandem nonetheless), it appears as if the Police Acadamy just graduated a bunch of cadets and now they are out on the roads en masse doing on-the-street training.  I really took note of this when I saw a lot of the cops out there were VERY young, and the other officers with them were of the older variety.

So I think I got hit by a kid who just wanted to "break his cherry" so to speak.

Now for is it worth it?  Yes.  I do believe it is.  I feel 100% that I am right and I am being wronged here.  I do not believe that the "oh well, that just the way it is" philosophy should apply.  When I have been wronged I refuse to just "accept it".  I did that for a great portion of my life and came as close to suicide as you could ever imagine because I just "accepted it" when I was being harassed, screwed over, or crapped on.  If I in any way had any doubts that I was Not Guilty I'd have sucked it up, paid the fine, gotten the two points on my license and gone broke with car insurance for the next two years.  As I read through the state law regarding traffic signals, I gain more confidence in my being correct.  Here is a section pertaining to green lights;

(1) Circular green alone: Vehicular traffic facing a green signal may proceed straight through or turn right or left unless a sign or marking at such place prohibits either such turn or straight through movement, except that such traffic shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians and vehicles lawfully within a crosswalk or the intersection at the time such signal was exhibited;

Circular green alone: Vehicular traffic facing a green signal may proceed straight through or turn right or left:  This indicates that those with a Circular Green signal have the right of way and can go straight, right, or left.

unless a sign or marking at such place prohibits either such turn or straight through movement:  This indicates that their ability to go straight or turn is not allowed if there is a sign or marking stating that they can not.

except that such traffic shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians and vehicles lawfully within a crosswalk or the intersection at the time such signal was exhibited:  This means that their right of way does not apply if a car or pedestrian was already in the intersection when their green signal was given.

(2) Yellow: Vehicular traffic facing a steady yellow signal is thereby warned that the related green movement is being terminated or that a red indication will be exhibited immediately thereafter, when vehicular traffic shall stop before entering the intersection unless so close to the intersection that a stop cannot be made in safety; pedestrians facing a steady yellow signal, except when directed by separate pedestrian-control signals, are thereby advised that there is insufficient time to cross the roadway before a red indication is shown and no pedestrian shall then start to cross the roadway.

Yellow: Vehicular traffic facing a steady yellow signal is thereby warned that the related green movement is being terminated or that a red indication will be exhibited immediately thereafter:  This means that your rights and privileges relating to the Green Signal are ending.  It does not mean that they have ended.

when vehicular traffic shall stop before entering the intersection unless so close to the intersection that a stop cannot be made in safety:  This means that cars need to stop before entering the intersection unless stopping would be done unsafely.  (In my case, if I stopped it would mean that I would have to slam on my breaks, possibly losing traction with the damp pavement, and potentially causing someone coming up behind me to slam into my back end).

The red light portion simply states that if a red light is present you must stop before entering the intersection.

By fighting this, the officer has to prove that I could have stopped my car safely prior to entering the intersection, since the green light section indicates that if I am already in the intersection I retain my right of way.  So the cop will need to have measurements of where my car was when his light turned green, how fast I was going, what my light color was when I entered the intersection, etc. etc.  That's a lot that he will need to prove.  He also can't say "Well if he wasn't able to stop safely then he must have been speeding" since you can't serve a speeding infraction without any proof. 

This is the part that my friend said I need to pay close attention to because the officer will have a very tough time proving all of those points without any reasonable doubt.  By taking a look at his notes, I'll easily be able to see where he was positioned and what possible angle he could have of my approach.

It's really the green light section that I had just browsed over before that is going to help.  It clearly states that the vehicles with a green light must yield to vehicles already in the intersection at the onset of their green light. 



(This is actually kind of fun reading through the traffic laws). 

[RayB]

It's amazing how people think that "mistakes" aren't their responsibility. It doesn't matter if you intended to make the mistake or not, its still your responsibility. The purpose of getting ticketed and fined is to ensure people wake up and pay more attention so mistakes don't happen as much.

JDrug: Go to the intersection and measure the timing of the lights (same day and time). You might find it supports your argument, or you might find it does not.

[AtomSmasher]

It's really the green light section that I had just browsed over before that is going to help.  It clearly states that the vehicles with a green light must yield to vehicles already in the intersection at the onset of their green light. 

That would be helpful if another car hit you and you were arguing over the fault of the accident, but I really don't see how that would help you out of your ticket.

Good luck with your case, but I agree with several others here in that it will come down to your word against the cops.

[knave]

Just a note for your benefit.  Don't confuse the traffic hearing with going to trial (court).

After you get the official ticket in the mail you will have to go before a judge for a hearing. This is where you declare you are not guilty and want to go to trial( or fight the ticket so to speak). This is also where you ask for probation, traffic school or any reduced fines.  I have never seen a judge refuse to reduce a fine on anyone who says they can't pay who also has a pretty average record. (your results may vary.)

If you choose to go to trial then usually the judge won't issue traffic school, probation or reduced fines...But I believe they still can even if they are "not supposed to."

Court is full of exceptions...

All of that advice from the lawyer is good. but I prefer to never go to trial and resolve the ticket at the hearing. probation rocks big time!

[saint]

It's amazing how people think that "mistakes" aren't their responsibility. It doesn't matter if you intended to make the mistake or not, its still your responsibility. The purpose of getting ticketed and fined is to ensure people wake up and pay more attention so mistakes don't happen as much.

JDrug: Go to the intersection and measure the timing of the lights. You might find it supports your argument, or you might find it does not.

Make sure you measure it at the same time of day (maybe same day of the week even) as sometimes timing is changed depending on time of day.

[billf]

I'd love to see someone present an "I wasn't paying enough attention to stop safely" defense.   

I was in court myself once (I got cought with my radar detector and got called to court instead of a fine) and an elderly couple ahead of me tried to pull off the "I wasn't paying attention so it wasn't my fault" defense. The guy was looking at a speedboat on the water and rear ended the car in front of him. A cop fined him for not paying attention and the guy went to court thinking the judge would be lenient on him since his wife pointed out the boat to him. Seriously bizarre.

The guy after him tried the "I thought the speed sign near road works was just an advisory speed instead of an actual speed limit" defense. Seriously! The judge really ripped that guy apart. It was hilarious. He had to pay something like 800 euro though (120km/h in a 70km/h zone and road works doubles the fine).

In both cases the judge increased the settlement they were offered by 20%. Just for wasting his time.

Can totally relate to this.  When I was home from college my sophmore year, I got my first speeding ticket.  I had all intentions of fighting the ticket - officer claimed I was going 46 in 25.  I don't think I was actually going that fast, but I asked to see the radar.  He walked me over to the cop car and showed me a flashing 46 on the radar.  But there were other cars going in the opposite direction at the same time that he "caught" me, so to this day I don't really know who's 46mph speed that was on the radar. Anyway, I was going to go and fight the ticket.  I didn't go to extent the jdurg is planning to go, but I had a few points that I was going to bring up.

Then, like patrickl mentioned, the judge was having none of the excuses or explanations the day I was there.  A couple of cases before mine, was a guy who was pulled over for speeding on the highway (maybe 76 in a 55). He claimed that the car mechanically couldn't go over 50mph. The judge looked at him and asked, "are you seriously trying to tell me a car with a V8 engine can't go more than 50mph?" He responded with a "yes".  The judge told him, well then your car isn't safe to be on the highway and should be repaired immediately.  Part of the judgment was to get the car fixed and then the judge doubled the fine for taking up the court's time.

The judge then rung up the two individuals directly in front of me in the case list, for the full amount of their tickets.  It was then I decided to plead no contest, went downstairs, paid my fine and got my license back.  And yes the officer in my case did show up to court.

[Ed_McCarron]

I'd love to see someone present an "I wasn't paying enough attention to stop safely" defense.   

Heres the winner, if the cop doesn't have video.

"Before I prepared to stop, I checked my rear view mirror.  I felt the vehicle behind me was too close for me to safely stop, and since the light was yellow I took the less dangerous option."

Odds are even if the cop was watching you, he wasn't looking behind you.

[danny_galaga]

havent read the whole thing yet. but tell me, where are you living? in australia we have this colour between the green and the red called 'amber'. you went through a red light dude. cop it sweet...

[danny_galaga]

There are times when a person is going the speed limit and just so happens to be in the "point of no return" area under the light and can be seen as breaking the law, when they really are not.

Right.  I addressed those situations under "the light was malfunctioning" and "you weren't paying attention".

No, not malfunctioning and not paying attention, it does happen due to normal speed and light changes at random.

If you look at the photo I posted, the Bowling Alley is the big white thing.  I made the left onto Kings Highway and the light was still green.  When I got to the Stop Line that I indicated, the light turned yellow.  When I was in the intersection, the light turned red.  Stopping is impossible at that point unless I want to stop in the middle of Route 12.

i cant see the grassy knowl 

[danny_galaga]

I just spoke with a friend of mine who just got a law degree and she said a few simple things;

1):  Don't make things up.  Honesty, even if it won't support your case, is noted.
2):  Learn the Law.  Read through the statute you are accused of violating and break it down piece by piece.  The Prosecution must prove that you violated all aspects of said statute in order for you to be found guilty.  If one aspect of that statute is something not applicable to your infraction, you are Not Guilty.
3):  Request the Police Officer's notes.  By Law, the Police Officer must provide you with all notes relating to the incident prior to the court date.  You must, however, make the official request.  Bring a copy of this official request with you to court.  If the Officer has not provided you with the notes you requested you can ask that the judge require the Officer to provide you with the notes before a certain date.  If that date comes and goes and you still have not been sent the notes, you can legally request the case be dismissed.  (Therefore, you must request the notes be sent via a trackable courier service so you can have evidence of its delivery or failure of).
4):  Keep thing short and to the point.  No "fluff" should be used to try and sway the judge.
5):  For Stoplight/Stopsign violations, bring a detailed diagram of the area in which the incident took place denoting where you were and where the cop was when the "incident" happened.  By having the officer's notes you'll be able to see what he will be stating and if he made no details as to his position and your position, your appearence with detailed diagrams will help your side of the argument.
6):  Take photos of the area at that particular time of the night.
7):  Show up wearing a suit and tie so that you will appear to show respect for the court.
:  Never look at the police officer unless he is talking to you directly.  Always face the judge.
9):  Look the judge in the eyes when responding and when listening.
10):  ALWAYS address the court as "your honor".


Those were the 10 things that she said I really have to follow to have a chance with this.  Of course, if the officer fails to show up for the trial then I win by default.  She just said that it's critical to get a copy of the officers notes.  They are required to write down every last detail of what happened that resulted in the traffic ticket.  If you get a copy of his notes and see that he did not diagram out what happened or did something which would result in his view of your car being obscured, you'll have a greater chance of success.  Even if you just request the notes of the officer, it will show that you have an intent to defend yourself to the fullest and will cause the officer to review his paperwork and notes relating to your case.  In some cases the officer will review his notes and realize that he may not win the case and will just retract the ticket prior to trial. 

So I have a bit of research to do to further back my case up, but my friend did say that I've probably got a 50/50 chance of the case being completely wiped away with a far more likely chance that the officer will suggest some other action not resulting in a ticket.

you facing a murder charge as well 

[Kremmit]

Hey, no joke about checking the yellow light timing.  In recent years, a lot of municipalities have taken to shortening the duration of the yellow with the specific intent of increasing red light violations, and therefore revenue derived from tickets.  This is especially common in intersections with red light cameras, which is not what you're up against, but still. 

Get a stopwatch and measure the duration of the yellow.  Then measure how long it takes to get through the intersection, assuming you approach the intersection going the speed limit, and then slow down to a safe & reasonable speed to make the turn you were making.  If the yellow isn't giving you enough time from the point of no return to your exit from the intersection, then prove it to the judge- mathematically, and/or with a videotape.  (Don't videotape yourself speeding, though, unless you want another ticket 

Of course, this won't work if the yellow really is long enough... but it sounds like the cornerstone of your defense strategy is that it's not.. so prove it.

----

*edit- I wouldn't suggest that you accuse the city of shortening the yellow in order to make money, I wouldn't even imply it.  The yellow's just not long enough, and that's that.  Don't rub the judge's nose in the idea that the city he works for might not be 100% squeaky clean, that would make it harder for him to side with you.

[patrickl]

Get a stopwatch and measure the duration of the yellow.  Then measure how long it takes to get through the intersection, assuming you approach the intersection going the speed limit, and then slow down to a safe & reasonable speed to make the turn you were making.  If the yellow isn't giving you enough time from the point of no return to your exit from the intersection, then prove it to the judge- mathematically, and/or with a videotape.  (Don't videotape yourself speeding, though, unless you want another ticket 

That would work if he claimed that he was crossing the light just as it turned yellow. His claim is that he passed the light just as it went from yellow to red as stated in his first post:

I was passing through an intersection when the light turned red as my car was directly underneath it.  Thus, my front half of the car was inside the intersection and the back two wheels were behind the "line".

JDurg, I'm surprised how you misread the traffic light code.

Yellow: Vehicular traffic facing a steady yellow signal is thereby warned that the related green movement is being terminated or that a red indication will be exhibited immediately thereafter, when vehicular traffic shall stop before entering the intersection unless so close to the intersection that a stop cannot be made in safety

You passed the trafficlight when the entire yellow period was over. Thus you were not close to the intersection when the yellow light came on that you could not stop. That would be when you are under green and the light just changes in front of you.

Basically you have to stop for a yellow light unless you really cannot stop safely. You ran through a yellow just going red and that's not allowed. So you get a fine. Pretty simple.

[ChadTower]

Heres the winner, if the cop doesn't have video.

"Before I prepared to stop, I checked my rear view mirror.  I felt the vehicle behind me was too close for me to safely stop, and since the light was yellow I took the less dangerous option."

Odds are even if the cop was watching you, he wasn't looking behind you.

I'd be surprised if a judge didn't say "getting rearended is safer than a head on collision in the middle of a busy intersection.  It is not up to you to alter traffic laws to suit your opinion - they were written with that situation in mind.  I will now double your fine to amuse my bailiff.  He is having a bad day."

[Jdurg]

Get a stopwatch and measure the duration of the yellow.  Then measure how long it takes to get through the intersection, assuming you approach the intersection going the speed limit, and then slow down to a safe & reasonable speed to make the turn you were making.  If the yellow isn't giving you enough time from the point of no return to your exit from the intersection, then prove it to the judge- mathematically, and/or with a videotape.  (Don't videotape yourself speeding, though, unless you want another ticket 

That would work if he claimed that he was crossing the light just as it turned yellow. His claim is that he passed the light just as it went from yellow to red as stated in his first post:

I was passing through an intersection when the light turned red as my car was directly underneath it.  Thus, my front half of the car was inside the intersection and the back two wheels were behind the "line".

JDurg, I'm surprised how you misread the traffic light code.

Yellow: Vehicular traffic facing a steady yellow signal is thereby warned that the related green movement is being terminated or that a red indication will be exhibited immediately thereafter, when vehicular traffic shall stop before entering the intersection unless so close to the intersection that a stop cannot be made in safety

You passed the trafficlight when the entire yellow period was over. Thus you were not close to the intersection when the yellow light came on that you could not stop. That would be when you are under green and the light just changes in front of you.

Basically you have to stop for a yellow light unless you really cannot stop safely. You ran through a yellow just going red and that's not allowed. So you get a fine. Pretty simple.

What you guys aren't understanding is the traffic light itself is located in the intersection.  Here in the state of CT, the intersection is defined as the area where two or more roads meet and the intersection itself is the space beyond the white stop line which is present on each road.  At EVERY stop light and stop sign there is a white line in the pavement.  It is required by LAW to be there.  You MUST stop before this white line.  If you progress pass this white line, by the law of the land you are IN THE INTERSECTION.

At this intersection that I am being ticketed for, the white line that denotes the start of the intersection is about ten yards BEFORE the traffic light.  They can't errect a pole in the middle of Route 1 for the traffic light.  So the light that is applicable to the road I was travelling on is located in the middle of the divider that separates northbound and southbound.  I was past the line and should have typed "light" in my initial post.  Sorry about that. 

But this isn't a case where the traffic light is directly above where the stop line is placed.  At this intersection they can't physically place it there.

[patrickl]

So you are saying you were driving along the intersection for a "long time" already before the light turned red and that in fact you were crossing the line just after the light went yellow?

BTW funny how the color is different. Americans call it yellow, us dutch folk call it orange and the australians call it amber.

[missioncontrol]

BTW funny how the color is different. Americans call it yellow, us dutch folk call it orange and the australians call it amber.

yeah and in Japan they call a green light blue

[shardian]

I think you should cite that scene in Beverly Hills Cop II about the yellow light in your defense. 

[ChadTower]

It always makes me laugh when someone I know goes up to NS and one of the first things they say is "WTF is a blinking green?!  I don't know what to do!"