What ruined the "arcade generation"?

[shippy1973]

Now I ask this as I have have several conversations with different people and I always get varying responses. Thought I would pose this question here to see what you all thought...

Personally, I think the console systems and computers ruined the arcade market. Well...technology in general did it in. Let's face it... Atari or Colecovision or whatever was great but it was just not like throwing 25 cents into that Galaga or Pac-Man machine. Playing Dragon's Lair for hours. Walking around looking for that game you that you could not remember the name of sometimes....

Back when (I am 31

[SirPoonga]

Me too.  Consoles started taking off.

Also it has to do with the fact that the arcade generation is in their 20s-30s now.  Look at modern day arcades.  They are still geared for that generation.  National chains like Gameworks and Jillians have bowling, arcade, bar, restaurant...

It's hard to attract the younger crowd now.  Why when they could sit at home and play on a console system where the graphics look just as good.

[shippy1973]

Look at modern day arcades.

[SirPoonga]

Totally agree. What is funny is when I go to those places, I see those "hi tech" games and I look around for something "old school". Just is not around. People want "blow my socks off" games now that cost $1-$2.

Actually, the Gameworks I goto has a couple of classics.

Look at the theme of today's games.  They are interactive, promote being social and interacting with other.  Link racing cabs, duel DDR, fighters.   Like I said, todays arcades are all about being social and partying

[mahuti]

If I want to be social, and party, I'd rather drop my quarters into the bartenders tip glass, and spend the rest of my money on extra drinks.

I love old games, but I don't love the n

[telengard]

Look at modern day arcades.  They are still geared for that generation.  National chains like Gameworks and Jillians have bowling, arcade, bar, restaurant...

It's hard to attract the younger crowd now.  Why when they could sit at home and play on a console system where the graphics look just as good.

Totally agree. What is funny is when I go to those places, I see those "hi tech" games and I look around for something "old school". Just is not around. People want "blow my socks off" games now that cost $1-$2.

What about 7-11s? They used to have 2-3 games per store. Now they have ATMs. I would be thrilled to walk into a 7-11 and see a Donkey Kong in the corner running...  Who cares that I have my own MAME machine... it is all about nostalgia. That is why most of us are here right? 

I agree it's somewhat about the nostalgia.  If it weren't I'd just stay home and play on the MAME cab rather than drive up to Funspot (which I did this Saturday).  That place is like a time machine!

[shippy1973]

I agree it's somewhat about the nostalgia.

[telengard]

I agree it's somewhat about the nostalgia.  If it weren't I'd just stay home and play on the MAME cab rather than drive up to Funspot (which I did this Saturday).  That place is like a time machine!

Exactly. I love my machine...but give me one in a gas station or Mom and Pop restaurant in Missouri or Kansas as I drive across country and guess who is dropping quarters in...  If I had the money and location, I would open an arcade up myself with nothing but 80s machines 

Hehe, it's funny you say that.  I have been *seriously* considering doing this.  I keep talking myself out of it though.  My fiancee thinks it's a good idea which is quite surprising.   

[paigeoliver]

Consoles and the continuing escalation of equipment prices.

For years now new equipment has been $4000+ and the console versions are usually beating the arcade versions to market and are often better. It takes a long time to pay for a machine that costs that much, and it is hard to do it when the kids have a better version of the same game at home.

The way they do things in Japan and Asia works much better. Those candy cabs are dirt cheap (really, check coinop express to see what the suckers cost BRAND NEW over their). It is much easier to pay for a new $500 board every year in a $500 cabinet (that will last a decade) then it is to get a $4000 game to pay for itself while it is still current.

[Bones]

I blame the young kids and their rock'n'roll music.

[danny_galaga]

yes, it's always a pleasant surprise to find an old (or old stly re-release) cab in a shop. i had a quick look around Jamestown when i was in merica last. i bought some lunch in a little sandwich shop and there was Pacman! unfortunately i was never good at pacman, so even though it was still set on quarters a buck didnt last very long. but still

oh, and my local fish and chip shop has raiden and metal slug, but theyve just changed the raiden board to raiden fighters. i might have to enquire after the vendor and see if they want to get rid of that raiden PCB...

[SOAPboy]

I agree it's somewhat about the nostalgia.

[paigeoliver]

oh, and my local fish and chip shop has raiden and metal slug, but theyve just changed the raiden board to raiden fighters. i might have to enquire after the vendor and see if they want to get rid of that raiden PCB...

They likely just swapped the board to another location (probably wherever the Raiden Fighters board came from).

[elvis]

I stopped visiting arcades when games became $1 a credit (the $1 coin was introduced here in Australia in '84), and arcade owners put each machine on the hardest difficulty they could.  We had $2 coins introduced in '88, and low and behold the moment they came out, $2-per-three credits became the fashion.  Not too bad, until the inevitable happened and $2 a credit was the norm.

I snagged a JAMMA board the other day, and out of curiosity checked the play stats on the board.  Longest game recorded?  151 seconds.  Yep, less than 2 minutes.  And there where well over 1000 plays on this thing.

I remember when 20c lasted me a good 20 minutes.

I guess you could argue the reverse: that prices and difficultie settings went up, only because profits were low.  But still, when arcades where fun, I played them.  When they became a rip job to con me into pumping multiple dollars per play into them, I left the arcades for good.  It was only AFTER I couldn't afford to blow my spare change on arcades that I decided to get into consoles.  After all, a $100 console was 50 goes on a $2 machine, if you thought about it logically.

[Paul Olson]

I stopped visiting arcades when games became $1 a credit

This is the biggest reason for me, too.  It just is not an entertainment value anymore.  I don't think any of the new machines let you get more than 3 minutes of play time.  I go to arcades once in a while, but I try to find older machines.  I need to go out scouting one of these days to find some good games.  I am in Reno, and most casinos have arcades, so I should be able to find a few mixed in with all the crappy redemption games.

Paul

[Fat_Trucker]

I stopped visiting arcades when games became $1 a credit

I'll....er....third that!.

Over here in the UK, just about all machines are

[armax]

In Las Vegas, Circus Circus still had the identical classic machines that were there when I was 7 or 8 (I'm 33 now).  Renovation (fortunately for arcade games) is a foreign word to them.  Check it out sometime...

[SOAPboy]

In Las Vegas, Circus Circus still had the identical classic machines that were there when I was 7 or 8 (I'm 33 now).

[armax]

I went there on my honeymoon, and I'll tell you it made me feel like a kid again.  It was funny, my wife swore she married a 7 year old boy earlier that day...lol..

[Xiaou2]

 To be honest... I think a combination of Street Fighter II  and  3d hardware did the most damages.

  SFII   did so well.. that everybody scrapped many projects.. and nothing could top it in earnings.    After that ... it inda got the "me too"  thing happening.  No more originality...  : (

  Then 3d harware hit.   Ok for racing... pretty sad looking for fighters. 

 Much of the gamplay became about adding quarters to continue rather than having skills.

  Many games are mindless and have almost zero skills needed at all.   Alpine racer... ugg.   Like a movie - but with poor quailty 3d.   

   Computers started to ramp up in popularity..  making 3d advancements faster... making it harder to develop arcade systems that were competitive in costs.

  2d games were even harder to devlop as they used higher resolutions, and artowork costed much more to produce for them.

  Consoles followed the advancments of the older 3d pc cards.. and was good enough to feel like the arcades... and now can pretty much surpass arcade hardware.

  If arcade manufactures wanted to be on top again.. they would need a bigger draw.  Something that a standard pc couldnt do.   Something research power or better.   Something like the Imax 3d  effect...  Something that you simply cant get at home.

 Also,  they need to  really add the challenge into the games.   And more originality. 

  Ohh, and mechanical games..  I love em.  They are popular still.. but,  they are almost always broken in some way.   Better deisigns could lead to better mechanical games that last.

[Thenasty]

the Arcade close by me just closed its doors. It finally died after months of deciding its come to let it go and now the day had come 

The only place left around here are in the mall and Sportworld.

[shawnzilla]

I also believe that the death of many indoor malls across the country have contributed to the fall of arcades. Here in Kansas City, there used to be several thriving malls, each with an arcade (one of them had two!). But, as each mall started sliding downhill, the arcades seemed to be one of the first tenants to go. What's strange is that there is one mall in my area that has survived and is thriving, but their arcade that had been open since I was very young (A Fun Factory), closed their doors a couple of months ago...it pissed me off the other day when I walked by and noticed that in its place will be a Pacific Sunwear store.

Oh well, there is a local Taco Via that still has the same galaga that I threw my money into twenty+ years ago. :-)

[danny_galaga]

oh, and my local fish and chip shop has raiden and metal slug, but theyve just changed the raiden board to raiden fighters. i might have to enquire after the vendor and see if they want to get rid of that raiden PCB...

They likely just swapped the board to another location (probably wherever the Raiden Fighters board came from).

actually i suspect its probably dead because this vendor wasnt very active. that same raiden machine has been there for at least five years. ill ask the chip shop guys next time...

[paigeoliver]

Last I checked the Tilt was still open in our local mall. It is the biggest store in the mall aside from the anchors. When I was a kid the place was packed with row after row of 19" cabinets (probably 150 of them), and they had a Sega R360 by the front stairs.

Today they have like 30 pieces of equipment, half redemption, and last time I was there 22 of them had problems. (I started getting mad that EVERYTHING had something wrong with it so I checked them all). Of the 8 that worked completely right only 2 of them were vids, and they were both the same game.

Yep, only 30 piece of equipment in a place that once ran 200 games, and most of them were broken and they had doubles of half the stuff.

[armax]

It's a shame.  You couldn't walk into a mall or strip mall without running into an arcade.  Heck, as a kid, it was my only reason for going to a mall.  Here in austin, we have 1 mall with an arcade (most interactive games), a Dave and Busters (lots of interactive games) and a handfull of bowling alleys with arcades (though I suspect those will be gone because of the element it tends to draw late at night).

If I had to take a guess, consoles are to blame.  Heck, consoles are the reason why the PC gaming industry has taken such a large hit.  Most programmers have gone to the console side (much better pay) and the scam that most stores run when it involves shelf renting is ridiculous...only consoles can afford it.

When was the last time anyone has seen a pinball machine?

[RayB]

Let's also not forget development costs. The price tag of machines haven't increased THAT much, but the development costs are now at a point where you can't recoup the investment. Think about it, a game like Galaga had maybe 1 or 2 developers, and then add the cost of hardware engineers.

Today, with all the high-end graphics, advanced 3D rendering etc, the hardware costs millions, and the game development costs millions.

[Matthew Anderson]

I think it is a huge combination of things... console syndrome, kids wanting to do different things then their elders.

I think big problem is the marketers. Take a look at q*bert, dig dug, puckman, crazy climber, zoo keeper, kangaroo or pooyan? What do these games have in common?

They are fsucking weird! Oh and also they are works of twisted art! No marketer in their right mind would approve these games. They got made because no one knew what they were doing and just tried for a fun game.

Also in the early days (i'm 35) it was just fun watching the screen react to my input. It was only later that I got sophisticated enough to want a more adult experience.  I think the marketers embraced familiarity and mediocrity so that is what we have.

[mahuti]

I also believe that the death of many indoor malls across the country have contributed to the fall of arcades. Here in Kansas City, there used to be several thriving malls, each with an arcade (one of them had two!). But, as each mall started sliding downhill, the arcades seemed to be one of the first tenants to go. What's strange is that there is one mall in my area that has survived and is thriving, but their arcade that had been open since I was very young (A Fun Factory), closed their doors a couple of months ago...it pissed me off the other day when I walked by and noticed that in its place will be a Pacific Sunwear store.

Oh well, there is a local Taco Via that still has the same galaga that I threw my money into twenty+ years ago. :-)

That's a shame about Fun Factory. I think I spent $20 for me and a friend to play Rampage all night one time. I remember too that Bannister Mall used to have an arcade. A pretty big one. That mall is so sad now. When I was a kid it was a cool place to go, now it's just on a long slide downhill with no end in sight. My favorite was the arcade at Camelot. I'm guessing they still have one, but it's been about 10 years since I was last there.

[shawnzilla]

I think it was a Fun Factory at Bannister Mall too. I had always liked the Aladdin's Castle at Ward Parkway. Metcalf South had two arcades, I remember one of them had all of the import games.

Where is Camelot? I don't seem to remember that place.

I also believe that the death of many indoor malls across the country have contributed to the fall of arcades. Here in Kansas City, there used to be several thriving malls, each with an arcade (one of them had two!). But, as each mall started sliding downhill, the arcades seemed to be one of the first tenants to go. What's strange is that there is one mall in my area that has survived and is thriving, but their arcade that had been open since I was very young (A Fun Factory), closed their doors a couple of months ago...it pissed me off the other day when I walked by and noticed that in its place will be a Pacific Sunwear store.

Oh well, there is a local Taco Via that still has the same galaga that I threw my money into twenty+ years ago. :-)

That's a shame about Fun Factory. I think I spent $20 for me and a friend to play Rampage all night one time. I remember too that Bannister Mall used to have an arcade. A pretty big one. That mall is so sad now. When I was a kid it was a cool place to go, now it's just on a long slide downhill with no end in sight. My favorite was the arcade at Camelot. I'm guessing they still have one, but it's been about 10 years since I was last there.

[Chris]

I lost a long post on this, but it came down to redemption machines and consoles.  What saves games nowadays are controls you can't get at home: good arcade steering wheels, trackballs, DDR pads, etc.  (Yes, you can get home versions of these, but they're not the same as an arcade.)  As a kid, most of my favorite games had yokes, trackballs, flight sticks, or some other type of custom controls that were more immersive than an 8-way joystick.

--Chris

[SteveJ34]

Dancin' girls?

[quarterback]

Here in austin, we have 1 mall with an arcade (most interactive games), a Dave and Busters (lots of interactive games) and a handfull of bowling alleys with arcades (though I suspect those will be gone because of the element it tends to draw late at night).

When was the last time anyone has seen a pinball machine?

What about The Back Room?

[mahuti]

Camelot... the cool mini golf course out on Noland Road.

[shawnzilla]

I'll have to check that out. I'm still mourning the loss of Putt-putt in Overland Park (they had an awesome arcade).

Does Cool Crest have an arcade? My wife couldn't remember.

Camelot... the cool mini golf course out on Noland Road.

[missioncontrol]

I blame it on the new state quarters.....

[tetsujin]

I think arcade games started as a huge fad, and when the initial novelty wore off the industry spent some time trying to find its new direction while the novelty was at least still in people's memories.  Now the novelty is completely gone (at best there's nostalgia value, along with games with special controls like DDR or gun games), and arcade games need a better justification for their experience - I think the time when arcade machines were ubiquitous is likely gone forever.  Not so much because of home consoles, but because of things like cell phones, which are ubiquitous, and which support a high enough level of gaming that most people won't be tempted to part with their pocket change.

Also gone (for the most part) are the simple types of games that were really well-suited to arcades.  Simple, one-screen games, games people could pick up and play the first time with no learning curve, games people could play for five minutes and then forget about, or restart without feeling they'd missed anything.  Games have developed to require a deeper commitment from the player (for the most part) and that really works against the "impulse buy" mentality that arcade machines need to work in the present.  There are exceptions, of course, but most of that sort of game development is happening on embedded platforms - again, the cell phones, etc.

[Zero_Hour]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it was largely "the games" that ruined the arcade generation. Sure a lot of other things have influenced the decline of the arcade machine, most have been mentioned here already.

The true classics that most of us are obsessed with fell into several categories -

1. Established the Genre (Pac-Man as opposed to say Lock n Chase)

2. Expanded an established genre (Galaxian built on Space Invaders, Galaga built on Galaga) in a way that dramatically improved / Changed already established gameplay types.

3. Stand alone as "unique" gametypes that defy easy classification -  Q*bert, Toobin, and the like.

Which is to say that a lot of the games from the "classic" era were crap, it's just there was a much more competitve enviornment at the time with more vendors vying for exposure., We largely forget the duds, except when we are scrolling through the expansive lists of supported games in various emulators.

The single thing that really pushed me away from Arcades was the CONTINUE feature. Games that had linear play, an ENDING. What do you do after you beat one of those games? Maybe try to beat it with fewer continues, but you know how it ends. I've always preferred games that simply got more difficult until I could no longer hold my own against the machine. Also, the growth of Fighters surely frustrated more than a few players - That could be an expensive learning curve if you can't play a game without some smart ass buying in and trashing you every time you step up to the machine.

I could point to the Big networked racing games and other cabinets that are major installations - the expense of those certainly would push out the small operators.

Ultimately there were a bunch of forces internal and external to the arcade indutry that have put it well below the radar of most people, but the good thing is as long as there are places like BYOAC and the like, the classics will live on.

[tetsujin]

Also, the growth of Fighters surely frustrated more than a few players - That could be an expensive learning curve if you can't play a game without some smart ass buying in and trashing you every time you step up to the machine.

That's a really good point.  I love fighting games - SF2 and MK2 and their relatives are among my all-time favorites.  But for a long time I hardly ever played them in the arcades, just because I didn't want to be clobbered by someone who'd learned all the 8-hit combos or whatever in MvC.  And early on I felt like knowing the special moves was this big thing - I studied the strategy guides in the magazines but I never felt like I really got it, back then.

[Kremmit]

I am in Reno, and most casinos have arcades, so I should be able to find a few mixed in with all the crappy redemption games.

There was a pretty sweet arcade in the basement of the MGM Grand (what do they call the big square hotel way off away from the strip these days- is it Bally's?) the last time I was there.  Some classics, and some pretty fun modern titles, too.

[APFelon]

 To be honest... I think a combination of Street Fighter II  and  3d hardware did the most damages.

  SFII   did so well.. that everybody scrapped many projects.. and nothing could top it in earnings.    After that ... it inda got the "me too"  thing happening.  No more originality...  : (

I find this to be categorically untrue. Fighting games brought in influx of new players in to the arcades. We called it the "arcade renaissance" in my company. It sure was better than those cookie-cutter side scrolling beat-em-ups that were coming out at the time. The arcades were pretty moribund before Street Fighter II. If anything, the fighting game fad prolonged the life of your favorite arcades, not contribute to their downfall.

3D was pretty cool when it came out, too. I remember seeing Ridge Racer for the first time and my jaw hit the floor. It was an incredible time for the business, and an even better time to be working in it.

I remember coin boxes so full that I could barely lift them (and I am not a small guy). I remember mobs of people around Street Fighter II and its various sequels. I remember beating 90+ people in a row at Mortal Kombat at the Mall of America. And I especially remember how "communal" fighting games were.

Some people mentioned that they didn't like when some "smart ass" put in quarters of the fighting game they were playing and beat them. Well, that was kind of the point of making the fighting games two players to begin with, and that is the basis of why I say fighting games were communal. I met a lot of people while playing fighters, and we would exchange tips, hints, fatalities and the like. Or sometimes we would just trashtalk. It was a lot of fun, and that's one of the reason fighters became so popular.

Fighting games had nothing to do with the death of creativity in the business. It was already on life support. For every Toobin' or S.T.U.N. Runner, you'd have limitless JAMMA junk kits, horrid sports games or yet another side-scroller. I can easily parallel the "fighting age" of videogames to the "golden age" of videogames, and do it in all seriousness.

APf