What ruined the "arcade generation"?

[shippy1973]

Now I ask this as I have have several conversations with different people and I always get varying responses. Thought I would pose this question here to see what you all thought...

Personally, I think the console systems and computers ruined the arcade market. Well...technology in general did it in. Let's face it... Atari or Colecovision or whatever was great but it was just not like throwing 25 cents into that Galaga or Pac-Man machine. Playing Dragon's Lair for hours. Walking around looking for that game you that you could not remember the name of sometimes....

Back when (I am 31

[SirPoonga]

Me too.  Consoles started taking off.

Also it has to do with the fact that the arcade generation is in their 20s-30s now.  Look at modern day arcades.  They are still geared for that generation.  National chains like Gameworks and Jillians have bowling, arcade, bar, restaurant...

It's hard to attract the younger crowd now.  Why when they could sit at home and play on a console system where the graphics look just as good.

[shippy1973]

Look at modern day arcades.

[SirPoonga]

Totally agree. What is funny is when I go to those places, I see those "hi tech" games and I look around for something "old school". Just is not around. People want "blow my socks off" games now that cost $1-$2.

Actually, the Gameworks I goto has a couple of classics.

Look at the theme of today's games.  They are interactive, promote being social and interacting with other.  Link racing cabs, duel DDR, fighters.   Like I said, todays arcades are all about being social and partying

[mahuti]

If I want to be social, and party, I'd rather drop my quarters into the bartenders tip glass, and spend the rest of my money on extra drinks.

I love old games, but I don't love the n

[telengard]

Look at modern day arcades.  They are still geared for that generation.  National chains like Gameworks and Jillians have bowling, arcade, bar, restaurant...

It's hard to attract the younger crowd now.  Why when they could sit at home and play on a console system where the graphics look just as good.

Totally agree. What is funny is when I go to those places, I see those "hi tech" games and I look around for something "old school". Just is not around. People want "blow my socks off" games now that cost $1-$2.

What about 7-11s? They used to have 2-3 games per store. Now they have ATMs. I would be thrilled to walk into a 7-11 and see a Donkey Kong in the corner running...  Who cares that I have my own MAME machine... it is all about nostalgia. That is why most of us are here right? 

I agree it's somewhat about the nostalgia.  If it weren't I'd just stay home and play on the MAME cab rather than drive up to Funspot (which I did this Saturday).  That place is like a time machine!

[shippy1973]

I agree it's somewhat about the nostalgia.

[telengard]

I agree it's somewhat about the nostalgia.  If it weren't I'd just stay home and play on the MAME cab rather than drive up to Funspot (which I did this Saturday).  That place is like a time machine!

Exactly. I love my machine...but give me one in a gas station or Mom and Pop restaurant in Missouri or Kansas as I drive across country and guess who is dropping quarters in...  If I had the money and location, I would open an arcade up myself with nothing but 80s machines 

Hehe, it's funny you say that.  I have been *seriously* considering doing this.  I keep talking myself out of it though.  My fiancee thinks it's a good idea which is quite surprising.   

[paigeoliver]

Consoles and the continuing escalation of equipment prices.

For years now new equipment has been $4000+ and the console versions are usually beating the arcade versions to market and are often better. It takes a long time to pay for a machine that costs that much, and it is hard to do it when the kids have a better version of the same game at home.

The way they do things in Japan and Asia works much better. Those candy cabs are dirt cheap (really, check coinop express to see what the suckers cost BRAND NEW over their). It is much easier to pay for a new $500 board every year in a $500 cabinet (that will last a decade) then it is to get a $4000 game to pay for itself while it is still current.

[Bones]

I blame the young kids and their rock'n'roll music.

[danny_galaga]

yes, it's always a pleasant surprise to find an old (or old stly re-release) cab in a shop. i had a quick look around Jamestown when i was in merica last. i bought some lunch in a little sandwich shop and there was Pacman! unfortunately i was never good at pacman, so even though it was still set on quarters a buck didnt last very long. but still

oh, and my local fish and chip shop has raiden and metal slug, but theyve just changed the raiden board to raiden fighters. i might have to enquire after the vendor and see if they want to get rid of that raiden PCB...

[SOAPboy]

I agree it's somewhat about the nostalgia.

[paigeoliver]

oh, and my local fish and chip shop has raiden and metal slug, but theyve just changed the raiden board to raiden fighters. i might have to enquire after the vendor and see if they want to get rid of that raiden PCB...

They likely just swapped the board to another location (probably wherever the Raiden Fighters board came from).

[elvis]

I stopped visiting arcades when games became $1 a credit (the $1 coin was introduced here in Australia in '84), and arcade owners put each machine on the hardest difficulty they could.  We had $2 coins introduced in '88, and low and behold the moment they came out, $2-per-three credits became the fashion.  Not too bad, until the inevitable happened and $2 a credit was the norm.

I snagged a JAMMA board the other day, and out of curiosity checked the play stats on the board.  Longest game recorded?  151 seconds.  Yep, less than 2 minutes.  And there where well over 1000 plays on this thing.

I remember when 20c lasted me a good 20 minutes.

I guess you could argue the reverse: that prices and difficultie settings went up, only because profits were low.  But still, when arcades where fun, I played them.  When they became a rip job to con me into pumping multiple dollars per play into them, I left the arcades for good.  It was only AFTER I couldn't afford to blow my spare change on arcades that I decided to get into consoles.  After all, a $100 console was 50 goes on a $2 machine, if you thought about it logically.

[Paul Olson]

I stopped visiting arcades when games became $1 a credit

This is the biggest reason for me, too.  It just is not an entertainment value anymore.  I don't think any of the new machines let you get more than 3 minutes of play time.  I go to arcades once in a while, but I try to find older machines.  I need to go out scouting one of these days to find some good games.  I am in Reno, and most casinos have arcades, so I should be able to find a few mixed in with all the crappy redemption games.

Paul

[Fat_Trucker]

I stopped visiting arcades when games became $1 a credit

I'll....er....third that!.

Over here in the UK, just about all machines are

[armax]

In Las Vegas, Circus Circus still had the identical classic machines that were there when I was 7 or 8 (I'm 33 now).  Renovation (fortunately for arcade games) is a foreign word to them.  Check it out sometime...

[SOAPboy]

In Las Vegas, Circus Circus still had the identical classic machines that were there when I was 7 or 8 (I'm 33 now).

[armax]

I went there on my honeymoon, and I'll tell you it made me feel like a kid again.  It was funny, my wife swore she married a 7 year old boy earlier that day...lol..

[Xiaou2]

 To be honest... I think a combination of Street Fighter II  and  3d hardware did the most damages.

  SFII   did so well.. that everybody scrapped many projects.. and nothing could top it in earnings.    After that ... it inda got the "me too"  thing happening.  No more originality...  : (

  Then 3d harware hit.   Ok for racing... pretty sad looking for fighters. 

 Much of the gamplay became about adding quarters to continue rather than having skills.

  Many games are mindless and have almost zero skills needed at all.   Alpine racer... ugg.   Like a movie - but with poor quailty 3d.   

   Computers started to ramp up in popularity..  making 3d advancements faster... making it harder to develop arcade systems that were competitive in costs.

  2d games were even harder to devlop as they used higher resolutions, and artowork costed much more to produce for them.

  Consoles followed the advancments of the older 3d pc cards.. and was good enough to feel like the arcades... and now can pretty much surpass arcade hardware.

  If arcade manufactures wanted to be on top again.. they would need a bigger draw.  Something that a standard pc couldnt do.   Something research power or better.   Something like the Imax 3d  effect...  Something that you simply cant get at home.

 Also,  they need to  really add the challenge into the games.   And more originality. 

  Ohh, and mechanical games..  I love em.  They are popular still.. but,  they are almost always broken in some way.   Better deisigns could lead to better mechanical games that last.

[Thenasty]

the Arcade close by me just closed its doors. It finally died after months of deciding its come to let it go and now the day had come 

The only place left around here are in the mall and Sportworld.

[shawnzilla]

I also believe that the death of many indoor malls across the country have contributed to the fall of arcades. Here in Kansas City, there used to be several thriving malls, each with an arcade (one of them had two!). But, as each mall started sliding downhill, the arcades seemed to be one of the first tenants to go. What's strange is that there is one mall in my area that has survived and is thriving, but their arcade that had been open since I was very young (A Fun Factory), closed their doors a couple of months ago...it pissed me off the other day when I walked by and noticed that in its place will be a Pacific Sunwear store.

Oh well, there is a local Taco Via that still has the same galaga that I threw my money into twenty+ years ago. :-)

[danny_galaga]

oh, and my local fish and chip shop has raiden and metal slug, but theyve just changed the raiden board to raiden fighters. i might have to enquire after the vendor and see if they want to get rid of that raiden PCB...

They likely just swapped the board to another location (probably wherever the Raiden Fighters board came from).

actually i suspect its probably dead because this vendor wasnt very active. that same raiden machine has been there for at least five years. ill ask the chip shop guys next time...

[paigeoliver]

Last I checked the Tilt was still open in our local mall. It is the biggest store in the mall aside from the anchors. When I was a kid the place was packed with row after row of 19" cabinets (probably 150 of them), and they had a Sega R360 by the front stairs.

Today they have like 30 pieces of equipment, half redemption, and last time I was there 22 of them had problems. (I started getting mad that EVERYTHING had something wrong with it so I checked them all). Of the 8 that worked completely right only 2 of them were vids, and they were both the same game.

Yep, only 30 piece of equipment in a place that once ran 200 games, and most of them were broken and they had doubles of half the stuff.

[armax]

It's a shame.  You couldn't walk into a mall or strip mall without running into an arcade.  Heck, as a kid, it was my only reason for going to a mall.  Here in austin, we have 1 mall with an arcade (most interactive games), a Dave and Busters (lots of interactive games) and a handfull of bowling alleys with arcades (though I suspect those will be gone because of the element it tends to draw late at night).

If I had to take a guess, consoles are to blame.  Heck, consoles are the reason why the PC gaming industry has taken such a large hit.  Most programmers have gone to the console side (much better pay) and the scam that most stores run when it involves shelf renting is ridiculous...only consoles can afford it.

When was the last time anyone has seen a pinball machine?

[RayB]

Let's also not forget development costs. The price tag of machines haven't increased THAT much, but the development costs are now at a point where you can't recoup the investment. Think about it, a game like Galaga had maybe 1 or 2 developers, and then add the cost of hardware engineers.

Today, with all the high-end graphics, advanced 3D rendering etc, the hardware costs millions, and the game development costs millions.

[Matthew Anderson]

I think it is a huge combination of things... console syndrome, kids wanting to do different things then their elders.

I think big problem is the marketers. Take a look at q*bert, dig dug, puckman, crazy climber, zoo keeper, kangaroo or pooyan? What do these games have in common?

They are fsucking weird! Oh and also they are works of twisted art! No marketer in their right mind would approve these games. They got made because no one knew what they were doing and just tried for a fun game.

Also in the early days (i'm 35) it was just fun watching the screen react to my input. It was only later that I got sophisticated enough to want a more adult experience.  I think the marketers embraced familiarity and mediocrity so that is what we have.

[mahuti]

I also believe that the death of many indoor malls across the country have contributed to the fall of arcades. Here in Kansas City, there used to be several thriving malls, each with an arcade (one of them had two!). But, as each mall started sliding downhill, the arcades seemed to be one of the first tenants to go. What's strange is that there is one mall in my area that has survived and is thriving, but their arcade that had been open since I was very young (A Fun Factory), closed their doors a couple of months ago...it pissed me off the other day when I walked by and noticed that in its place will be a Pacific Sunwear store.

Oh well, there is a local Taco Via that still has the same galaga that I threw my money into twenty+ years ago. :-)

That's a shame about Fun Factory. I think I spent $20 for me and a friend to play Rampage all night one time. I remember too that Bannister Mall used to have an arcade. A pretty big one. That mall is so sad now. When I was a kid it was a cool place to go, now it's just on a long slide downhill with no end in sight. My favorite was the arcade at Camelot. I'm guessing they still have one, but it's been about 10 years since I was last there.

[shawnzilla]

I think it was a Fun Factory at Bannister Mall too. I had always liked the Aladdin's Castle at Ward Parkway. Metcalf South had two arcades, I remember one of them had all of the import games.

Where is Camelot? I don't seem to remember that place.

I also believe that the death of many indoor malls across the country have contributed to the fall of arcades. Here in Kansas City, there used to be several thriving malls, each with an arcade (one of them had two!). But, as each mall started sliding downhill, the arcades seemed to be one of the first tenants to go. What's strange is that there is one mall in my area that has survived and is thriving, but their arcade that had been open since I was very young (A Fun Factory), closed their doors a couple of months ago...it pissed me off the other day when I walked by and noticed that in its place will be a Pacific Sunwear store.

Oh well, there is a local Taco Via that still has the same galaga that I threw my money into twenty+ years ago. :-)

That's a shame about Fun Factory. I think I spent $20 for me and a friend to play Rampage all night one time. I remember too that Bannister Mall used to have an arcade. A pretty big one. That mall is so sad now. When I was a kid it was a cool place to go, now it's just on a long slide downhill with no end in sight. My favorite was the arcade at Camelot. I'm guessing they still have one, but it's been about 10 years since I was last there.

[Chris]

I lost a long post on this, but it came down to redemption machines and consoles.  What saves games nowadays are controls you can't get at home: good arcade steering wheels, trackballs, DDR pads, etc.  (Yes, you can get home versions of these, but they're not the same as an arcade.)  As a kid, most of my favorite games had yokes, trackballs, flight sticks, or some other type of custom controls that were more immersive than an 8-way joystick.

--Chris

[SteveJ34]

Dancin' girls?

[quarterback]

Here in austin, we have 1 mall with an arcade (most interactive games), a Dave and Busters (lots of interactive games) and a handfull of bowling alleys with arcades (though I suspect those will be gone because of the element it tends to draw late at night).

When was the last time anyone has seen a pinball machine?

What about The Back Room?

[mahuti]

Camelot... the cool mini golf course out on Noland Road.

[shawnzilla]

I'll have to check that out. I'm still mourning the loss of Putt-putt in Overland Park (they had an awesome arcade).

Does Cool Crest have an arcade? My wife couldn't remember.

Camelot... the cool mini golf course out on Noland Road.

[missioncontrol]

I blame it on the new state quarters.....

[tetsujin]

I think arcade games started as a huge fad, and when the initial novelty wore off the industry spent some time trying to find its new direction while the novelty was at least still in people's memories.  Now the novelty is completely gone (at best there's nostalgia value, along with games with special controls like DDR or gun games), and arcade games need a better justification for their experience - I think the time when arcade machines were ubiquitous is likely gone forever.  Not so much because of home consoles, but because of things like cell phones, which are ubiquitous, and which support a high enough level of gaming that most people won't be tempted to part with their pocket change.

Also gone (for the most part) are the simple types of games that were really well-suited to arcades.  Simple, one-screen games, games people could pick up and play the first time with no learning curve, games people could play for five minutes and then forget about, or restart without feeling they'd missed anything.  Games have developed to require a deeper commitment from the player (for the most part) and that really works against the "impulse buy" mentality that arcade machines need to work in the present.  There are exceptions, of course, but most of that sort of game development is happening on embedded platforms - again, the cell phones, etc.

[Zero_Hour]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it was largely "the games" that ruined the arcade generation. Sure a lot of other things have influenced the decline of the arcade machine, most have been mentioned here already.

The true classics that most of us are obsessed with fell into several categories -

1. Established the Genre (Pac-Man as opposed to say Lock n Chase)

2. Expanded an established genre (Galaxian built on Space Invaders, Galaga built on Galaga) in a way that dramatically improved / Changed already established gameplay types.

3. Stand alone as "unique" gametypes that defy easy classification -  Q*bert, Toobin, and the like.

Which is to say that a lot of the games from the "classic" era were crap, it's just there was a much more competitve enviornment at the time with more vendors vying for exposure., We largely forget the duds, except when we are scrolling through the expansive lists of supported games in various emulators.

The single thing that really pushed me away from Arcades was the CONTINUE feature. Games that had linear play, an ENDING. What do you do after you beat one of those games? Maybe try to beat it with fewer continues, but you know how it ends. I've always preferred games that simply got more difficult until I could no longer hold my own against the machine. Also, the growth of Fighters surely frustrated more than a few players - That could be an expensive learning curve if you can't play a game without some smart ass buying in and trashing you every time you step up to the machine.

I could point to the Big networked racing games and other cabinets that are major installations - the expense of those certainly would push out the small operators.

Ultimately there were a bunch of forces internal and external to the arcade indutry that have put it well below the radar of most people, but the good thing is as long as there are places like BYOAC and the like, the classics will live on.

[tetsujin]

Also, the growth of Fighters surely frustrated more than a few players - That could be an expensive learning curve if you can't play a game without some smart ass buying in and trashing you every time you step up to the machine.

That's a really good point.  I love fighting games - SF2 and MK2 and their relatives are among my all-time favorites.  But for a long time I hardly ever played them in the arcades, just because I didn't want to be clobbered by someone who'd learned all the 8-hit combos or whatever in MvC.  And early on I felt like knowing the special moves was this big thing - I studied the strategy guides in the magazines but I never felt like I really got it, back then.

[Kremmit]

I am in Reno, and most casinos have arcades, so I should be able to find a few mixed in with all the crappy redemption games.

There was a pretty sweet arcade in the basement of the MGM Grand (what do they call the big square hotel way off away from the strip these days- is it Bally's?) the last time I was there.  Some classics, and some pretty fun modern titles, too.

[APFelon]

 To be honest... I think a combination of Street Fighter II  and  3d hardware did the most damages.

  SFII   did so well.. that everybody scrapped many projects.. and nothing could top it in earnings.    After that ... it inda got the "me too"  thing happening.  No more originality...  : (

I find this to be categorically untrue. Fighting games brought in influx of new players in to the arcades. We called it the "arcade renaissance" in my company. It sure was better than those cookie-cutter side scrolling beat-em-ups that were coming out at the time. The arcades were pretty moribund before Street Fighter II. If anything, the fighting game fad prolonged the life of your favorite arcades, not contribute to their downfall.

3D was pretty cool when it came out, too. I remember seeing Ridge Racer for the first time and my jaw hit the floor. It was an incredible time for the business, and an even better time to be working in it.

I remember coin boxes so full that I could barely lift them (and I am not a small guy). I remember mobs of people around Street Fighter II and its various sequels. I remember beating 90+ people in a row at Mortal Kombat at the Mall of America. And I especially remember how "communal" fighting games were.

Some people mentioned that they didn't like when some "smart ass" put in quarters of the fighting game they were playing and beat them. Well, that was kind of the point of making the fighting games two players to begin with, and that is the basis of why I say fighting games were communal. I met a lot of people while playing fighters, and we would exchange tips, hints, fatalities and the like. Or sometimes we would just trashtalk. It was a lot of fun, and that's one of the reason fighters became so popular.

Fighting games had nothing to do with the death of creativity in the business. It was already on life support. For every Toobin' or S.T.U.N. Runner, you'd have limitless JAMMA junk kits, horrid sports games or yet another side-scroller. I can easily parallel the "fighting age" of videogames to the "golden age" of videogames, and do it in all seriousness.

APf

[Gunstar Hero]

Consoles were probably the biggest killer...

...I think tho when games started costing a buck a play that finally chased me out of the arcade and into the arms of the consoles. I would do the math, and for 2 nights arcade play I could own the home version of MK3, Virtua Fighter or Street Fighter Alpha. If I could still spend a day in the arcade with only $5-10 coming out of my pocket I'd have never left.

[armax]

 To be honest... I think a combination of Street Fighter II

[daveg2000]

Games that cost .75 or more is what killed arcades.

along with the fact that all games (at least in this area)
are all Huge Shooting/Driving/Fighting games
thats all.

nothing original anymore...

Not alot of games that rely on skill anymore....
just memorization of where things appear... and the
ability to keep 'continuing' is pretty lame as well.

I remember the good days of MsPacMan....
Skill is what made you good, levels are virtually endless.
You play for getting to 'the next level'.... not to see
some cheezy movie at the end... followed by "GAME OVER"

I used to work at Aladdins Castle for a LONG time, and
even when continuing games started emerging... Like
Street Fighter II... I still played to see how far I could get
on 1 token.....  Eventually you master it and... thats it.

[RayB]

Imagine this sight:
When I was 11 my family went to "Old Orchard Beach" in Maine. It's a small beach side town. Very similar to Weirs Beach or Hampton Beach in New Hampshire.

Anyways, it had several HUGE arcades (with everything from 60's electro mechanical games, to the latest vids).

Well imagine the sight of something like 10 Pac Man machines side by side in one arcade, and all of them being played. Now THOSE were the days!

[Paul Olson]

There was a pretty sweet arcade in the basement of the MGM Grand (what do they call the big square hotel way off away from the strip these days- is it Bally's?) the last time I was there.  Some classics, and some pretty fun modern titles, too.

Wow, you're as old as I am!

I remember when they had the MGM lion down there near the arcade.

It's the Reno Hilton now.  I haven't been to that arcade in quite a while.  I go bowling there once in a while, but the last time I tried to get in the arcade, I couldn't.  They do a full metal detector search, and I had a pocket knife.  I don't carry a knife much anymore, so I'll have to got try again one of these days.

Paul

[ericball]

IMHO there are multiple things which killed the arcades:

1. Consoles & PCs caught up.  For a long while arcade games had custom hardware which could do things no PC or console available at the same time could do.  Nowdays some arcade games are based on console & PC hardware.  There are still those dedicated games with specialized controls (e.g. DDR when it first came out) or other unique properties (motion driving/riding games).  Consoles & PCs also don't have to force players to add more quarters and allow pause & save.

2. Photo realistic 3-D.  Pre 3-D and photo-realistic 2-D game programmers had to invent new worlds because they couldn't mimic the real world.  The more something looks like the real world, the more you are limitted to what is possible in the real world.  So flights of fancy like Pac Man, Defender and other classics happen because Mortal Kombat isn't possible.

3. Follow the genre leader. Fighting games, driving games, puzzle games, and less gameplay with each generation.  Less risks being taken because the cost is higher (partially due to 3-D and dedicated cabinets) and the popularity is lower.

[Chris]

2. Photo realistic 3-D.

[fredster]

I'd say consoles too.  I know once I got my Atari 2600 I quit going.

50 cent games too.  I didn't have enough money to go for more than 2 games then.

Plus, the law was cracking down on us at the Arcade. Idiots spoiled the fun for the rest of us.  Games were getting smashed and people were unruly.  Got to be expensive for the ops, that's still a problem today.

[tetsujin]

Imagine this sight:
When I was 11 my family went to "Old Orchard Beach" in Maine. It's a small beach side town. Very similar to Weirs Beach or Hampton Beach in New Hampshire.

Anyways, it had several HUGE arcades (with everything from 60's electro mechanical games, to the latest vids).

Well imagine the sight of something like 10 Pac Man machines side by side in one arcade, and all of them being played. Now THOSE were the days! 

That place is practically in my backyard.  In retrospect I wish I'd gone there a lot more when I was younger.  It would've been fun.  I think the Dream Machine there still has a reasonably good selection of machines.

I think Street Fighter II was an interesting time...  Around the same time the home consoles were able to deliver a playing experience close to what was in the arcades - and I think that resulted in people playing at home to learn the moves and strategies, and then playing in the arcades to get the better controls and the competition and the real experience of the game.  The console side of things may have actually helped people get past the learning curve.

Virtua Fighter looked like ass, but in retrospect that's one I should've given a chance.  Great gameplay.

[Sephroth57]

for those complaining about the new games costing too much... well you must need some practice cause i can last just as long in an arcade on 10$ now as when i was handed 10$ as a kid in the arcade.

DDR 1$ = 3 or 4 songs, each song is like 2 minutes, you have song select time in between, thats about 8 minutes for a dollar, thats really not bad at all. And this goes for all the music games, beatmania, popn music, guitar freaks, etc.

Big shooting games 1$ = as long as you can stay alive.. i can easily make it halfway through time crisis 3 on 1 credit

Racing games - well unless youre badass at these they are pretty crappy, 1$ for a 2-3 min race and unless you get 1st place youre done after that.

Initial D - although a racing game it gets its own category, "dueling" is the big thing in arcades and when you win a 1on1 race you get to play again. ive had people challenging me for 30 minutes straight i never put in a dollar since i started.

Fighting games - still are all 50c, and if youre any good at all you should be able to beat the computer easily and that takes about 15 min to finish the game sometimes. plus you got people challenging you, etc


like poonga said its about social games now, but its definately not much more expensive granted youre good at what youre playing.. i grew up going to the arcades and i never stopped, so when new games came out i played them got good at them, etc. i think a problem for some of you guys you stopped going after the classics, and now want to go back to the same exact arcade filled with classics, yeah its cool to have a few in the back but really you need new games to keep it going

[FractalWalk]

I take offense to thread title. The "arcade generation" is just fine, thank you very much. It's the arcades that are ruined!

[Quarters]

IMHO The main reason that arcades are dead or at dying is because video games are not new any more.  My generation (I'm 35) saw the first video games. Our parents had nothing quite like it. We went to the arcades first for the games then later because Girls were there.  Our friends were there. Girls were there. There were no parents there. Girls were there. I would go to the arcade even if I had no money. It was the place too meet before a party or whatever mischief we were up to.

My father mentioned a while back that in the 60s the thing to do on Friday nights was to drive across the city to the only pizza place in town. Pizza was the new foreign food at the time. Girls were there. It had a Jukebox with all the new hits. Girls were there. His friends were there. Girls were there. There were no parents there. Girls were there. It was the place to meet.

For Me and my generation the initial draw to our place was the games. For my Dad it was the pizza.

My house is a little odd in that we have no console games. We do however hav 5 PCs (not counting the one in my MAME cab), a few palm devices and cell phones that have games on them and of coarse a MAME cab. My kids were loading their own games by the age of 3. My five year old has a long bookmark list of her favorite websites(most game related). She chats with schoolmates and relations on MSN messenger. She has never known a time without computers and video games.

I don't know where my kids will go when the reach their teenage years, have freedom and lots of spare time. But I bet It Will be some place new with boys, girls, no parents, new music etc. Not some place that only has Video games.

[spiffyshoes]

To me the reason for buying a console wasn't because it was cheaper than going to the actual arcades but because if it wasn't for consoles I probably would hardely have ever gotton to play video games period.

[Zero_Hour]

i think a problem for some of you guys you stopped going after the classics, and now want to go back to the same exact arcade filled with classics, yeah its cool to have a few in the back but really you need new games to keep it going

You're partly right. I didn't stop going after the classics died off, but I did stop going (regularly, at least), after the games ceased being new.

After SFII, The series was just minor gameplay or graphic changes - gameplay stayed the same - Perhaps that is even more true of the Tekken, KOF, and other fighter series. I played SFII years ago - I really don't want to play yet another "new and improved" version of it.

Same with the DDR / Beatmania type games - once you get past the novelty of the controller all the various iterations are essentially the same game. There is no incentive for me to spend my money on them. It's not that I'm too cheap to pay the price, or lacking in the skill to be proficient in the game - It's just that in an arcade setting, I want some original titles for a change. I'm sure there are a few to be found, but unfortunately not in my neck of the woods.

[armax]

This reminds me alot of what is going on in the PC gaming community and which is starting to creep into the console community.  Lack of creativity and originality.  Pc gaming used to have some very original concepts (C64 was a perfect platform for originality).  But as time and profits went up, the struggle to 1up your competitor began.  After awhile, no one took risks because of the money involved and everyone started using the same cookie-cutter ideas with their own spin to it (followed the, "well it works so go with it" philosophy).  Now the console industry is experiencing losses from the 200 variations of WWII and car games.

[RayB]

Yup, look at all the positive word of mouth a game like Katamari Damacy got! More companies need to invest in just wild and crazy out of this world ideas.

[stevodevo]

Yeah I remember waiting out front of TimeZone in Australia on Tuesday nights for their Tuesday night lock-in.  We paid $5 and had 3 hrs of unlimited games!

Ha, I still remember the bitterness I felt when they upped it to $7 for 2 hrs!

Now when I go to the arcade they're almost all shooting games or driving games.  Although I did find a Ms. Pacman at the arcade in Clarksville, TN!

[Gunstar Hero]

for those complaining about the new games costing too much... well you must need some practice cause i can last just as long in an arcade on 10$ now as when i was handed 10$ as a kid in the arcade.

DDR 1$ = 3 or 4 songs, each song is like 2 minutes, you have song select time in between, thats about 8 minutes for a dollar, thats really not bad at all. And this goes for all the music games, beatmania, popn music, guitar freaks, etc.

Big shooting games 1$ = as long as you can stay alive.. i can easily make it halfway through time crisis 3 on 1 credit

Racing games - well unless youre badass at these they are pretty crappy, 1$ for a 2-3 min race and unless you get 1st place youre done after that.

Initial D - although a racing game it gets its own category, "dueling" is the big thing in arcades and when you win a 1on1 race you get to play again. ive had people challenging me for 30 minutes straight i never put in a dollar since i started.

Fighting games - still are all 50c, and if youre any good at all you should be able to beat the computer easily and that takes about 15 min to finish the game sometimes. plus you got people challenging you, etc


like poonga said its about social games now, but its definately not much more expensive granted youre good at what youre playing.. i grew up going to the arcades and i never stopped, so when new games came out i played them got good at them, etc. i think a problem for some of you guys you stopped going after the classics, and now want to go back to the same exact arcade filled with classics, yeah its cool to have a few in the back but really you need new games to keep it going

Okay, I'll bite on this one.

I could play games like Ghouls'n'Ghosts and 1943 for a LONG time on a quarter. 30 minutes was a short game. I can 2 coin Metal Slug (I have a buddy who can 1 life it!) and Contra. I know/knew guys who could play games like Asteroids and Tempest until they wanted to stop.

Don't try to tell me 8 minutes of DDR is a good deal.

And sure, Initial D dueling is cool, and can get you some great playtime, but not all arcades even have the winner set up to continue... Shooting games? On the off chance you can find one that works, you can get maybe 20 minutes out of it if you're SLOW... (and I can 2 coin Time Crisis 3 on a good day) That $.50 fighter? 10 minutes. Tops. And that's provided I let the CPU win every other round.

So of us never stopped going to the arcade either Seph... and not just to play the fruity dance game of the week (joke, my GF will kill me for this, so don't be too offended) but to throw down the newest shooters (Ghost Squad rocks!) and drivers (yeah, lots of Initial D played at 1am at my local 24hr bowling alley, until the game was like, buy a new card, and I was like... hell no! And I won't play Maximum Tune. No fruity eurobeat. ) and fighters (Tekken 5 JUST came home...) and the sad thing is, it's no longer a cheap way to have fun. 

[dfmaverick]

G4tv's show ICONS had an episode, "Arcade," about the death of the arcades. It replays again Tue Mar 8, 2pm CST.

I believe they said that the manufacturers helped kill the arcades since they put out too many in too short of time and oversaturated the market and then the only place to sell games to keep the industry going was to the 7-11s et al. After that the consoles brought the final downfall to the arcades and the only way they could keep it going from there was with the $1 & $2 a play games. Had a little revitalization with fighting games but eventually advanced to where the family type player(not frequent) would not play since they would get dominated in fighting games. Something like that. That's all I remember. Take a look at the show. Part of that recap might have been from the "Fighting Games" episode.

[SirPoonga]

I could play games like Ghouls'n'Ghosts and 1943 for a LONG time on a quarter. 30 minutes was a short game. I can 2 coin Metal Slug (I have a buddy who can 1 life it!) and Contra. I know/knew guys who could play games like Asteroids and Tempest until they wanted to stop.

After much practice.  I bet when you first started playing you couldn't get that far.  If you did the arcade operator had the settings on easy then.  At least where I played when I was a kid the arcade ops were greedy and everything was set to hard!

[Gunstar Hero]

The issue isn't I'm an arcade stud. It's that older games game you better bang for the buck (or quarter) if you dig it.

And of course it was after much practice... Ghouls is a HARD game, 1943... not so hard... if you use the right weapons. 

On new games tho, drop in your buck and don't know how to play? 30 seconds. Maybe. 

[RayB]

How many quarters did you spend to get up to the point of playing a whole game on 1 quarter?

[Sephroth57]

yeah your point doesnt really prove anything gunstar, ghouls and ghosts is probably the worst example because most people cant play it for more then 1 1/2 minutes without needed a continue. the new star wars arcade game, which is/was 1$, is the same thing, i can now beat the entire game on 2 credits, it used to take me 2 credits to beat 1 area..

[FractalWalk]

How many quarters did you spend to get up to the point of playing a whole game on 1 quarter?

I agree with Gunstar. For me, the learning curve on older games was not as steep as newer games which were designed for buying extra lives.

[Gunstar Hero]

No. it's the PERFECT example.

I can be a DDR MASTER and get as much playtime out of one credit as possible. 3 songs, 1.5 minutes per song, 2 minutes in the menus and high score screens. My dollar bought me 8.5 minutes of play. If I'm a noob? I get the first song as a gimmie on most machines (no fail first stage), bite it on the second. 2 minutes. For a buck!! On Ghouls, sure you'll get your ass kicked at the beginning. But as you get better, you get to keep playing. If you beat the game it's about 40 minutes of playtime, but if you work the system (get to Lucifer without the Magic Weapon) it sends you back and you can keep going! With Ghouls mastery if you want you can play FOREVER. 25 cents.

And thats how games were. Defender. Pac-man. Dig Dug. Galaga. 1942/3/1/X. There was no "maximum" playtime, unless you count eventually crashing the machine, something I've never seen done, but you were repaid for your efforts with getting to keep playing! That's why vs. fighting games were SO awesome... the possibility of almost endless playtime if you got a hot streak. But the arcade makers screwed themselves out of that.  3 and out is BS. That's how I see it. I still go to the arcades sometimes to play a game like Ghost Squad or Silent Scope or god willing find a nice pinball machine. But when I get repaid for mastery for 8 minutes of play for a buck? Screw that.

[Gunstar Hero]

Word, Fractal.

[Sc0rcheD]

Ahh, good times.  For me, what ruined the arcades was the prices.  I remember going to the arcade at the mall when I was younger and for a dollar or two I could play for hours.  For that same $2 at the arcade now, I can play maybe 2 games if if lucky( some games are over a dollar now ).  That and I hate the card system.  I want to carry around quarters damnit.

[armax]

I remember the first time I saw a game that was more than a quarter, that was Dragon's Lair.

[danny_galaga]

I remember the first time I saw a game that was more than a quarter, that was Dragon's Lair.

[armax]

lol...edited...

[paigeoliver]

I can do Star Wars Trilogy on one credit and have 100 percent life heading into the final stage pretty much every time. I have even had games end at 100 percent life remaining, but I never managed a perfect game (you get 20 percent life back after the end of each stage, except the final one of course, I have gotten to the final stage without getting hit many times and I have done the final stage without getting hit several times, but I have never combined the two).

Of course the last stage of Trilogy is rediculously easy once you get good at the game, there are only like 2 dangerous moments for a good player, and a good player will be rolling into the stage with maximum life and can just let those ships peg him and still beat the game without dying.

[Daniel270]

For me, the arcade experience wasn't a major one... in the small town where I grew up, it had 2 arcades..  neither successful.  First one was in a small shopping center (I vaguely remember Pac-Man and Space Invaders).  Second was in the skating rink (Pretty much strictly Galaxian and Crazy Climber).


After the movie theater was built, there was a small gameroom off to the side, but after 6 months, 3 games migrated into the lobby and the room was emptied out and locked...

Last time I went back to that town, the movie theater still had a couple, but the skating rink was torn down and the shopping center's all but dried up... maybe 3 stores left out of many....

[Grasshopper]

Another thing that isn't often mentioned is that arcade game manufacturers didn't handle the move to true 3d very well.

Most games in arcades are now of course 3d (e.g. most fighters, sports sims, driving) but they are mostly based on tried and tested genres that were developed in the pseudo 3d sprite era.

Take fighters for instance. The game designers have essentially bolted on fancy 3d graphics to a sprite era game. The gameplay is still essentially 2d.

The decline of acades started round about the time that Doom first appeared and I don't think this is a co-incidence. Doom is the first genuine 3d game IMHO (Wolfenstein was too primitive). I think you can essentially divide game technology into pre amd post doom eras. The arcades have never really had an answer to FPS and other types of post-Doom games.

Having said that there is no reason why FPS type games couldn't work in an arcade. It's just that they haven't been developed around arcade controls, and are now firmly associated with PCs and consoles.

If Doom had first appeared in an arcade it might have been a different story.

[armax]

I don't know.  I first saw doom and wolfenstein and didn't care much for them.  They seemed gimmicky at the time.  Not much substance.  I didn't get into FPS until Doom II.  Actually, the whole 3d thing kinda  didn't appeal to me in general....hence my eventual losing interest in arcades.

[DYNAGOD]

i think the major killer was just time and  inflation.
the simple fact of the matter is that real estate costs 250% more than it did during the arcade heyday, hardware costs have increased 250%+, but the income of the general individual hasnt kept pace and is actually almost the same as it was 25 years ago..

it simply isnt financially feasible to sell a product at such a low cost per unit with such enourmously disproportionate overhead to cover.
its just bad business.
you have to sell too much product to turn a profit.

[97thruhiker]

First post, been lurking around the site since last summer.  I think its a combination of whats been said already in this thread.  Yes, consoles and computers played a major role.  I'm 35 and when I was a kid I had an Intellivision, Atari 2600 and Apple II+.  The games were fun but they only made me want to go to the arcade.  Fire up a 2600 emulator and play pacman or donkey kong and then play them on Mame.  They were fun but the arcade had them beat.  Over the last five to ten years the home systems caught up to the quality and variety offered at the arcade. 

Additionally its a generational thing as mentioned in a previous post.  Arcades were the place to be in the early 80's.  They were new and exciting and something our parents didn't understand.  Another example from that time would be skating rinks.  I hated them (couldn't skate well but went for the girls!) but they were popular and we lined up around the building on a Friday night to get in.  How many skating rinks do you find today?

Hey Ray B!  I can totally relate to your post about Weirs Beach.  My dad's side of the family is from Laconia NH.  While I did not live in NH we would take a trip up there every year in the summer.  That arcade on Weirs Beach (across from the duck pin bowling place if I remember correcty) was incredible.  I remember walking in there in and seeing Dragon Lair being played for the first time.  Great memories.  I gew up in Maryland and used to go to Kings Dominian every summer.  They used to have a huge arcade right by the Rebel Yell rollarcoaster.  Went back several years ago and it was gone with a water park in its place.  Oh well.

[DarkKobold]

I still love some arcade games today. If I had the cash.... I'd so get
http://www.coinopexpress.com/products/machines/driving-riding_games/Star_Wars_Racer_Arcade_%28Twin%29_1594.html

and
 
http://www.coinopexpress.com/products/machines/shooting_games/House_of_Dead_3_%28DX%29_2469.html

Funny story about Star Wars racer. I was at the last Kzoo Super Auction, and they had one. Needless to say, I played it until the bidding got there. At one point, I could almost get first on the first race. I was sweating bullets, and one person walked up and said, "Hey, you know there is a back to the seat" Apparently I had been driving the whole time hunched forward. Such a fun game. I'd kill to get the deluxe or twin one.

[GGKoul]

Imagine this sight:
When I was 11 my family went to "Old Orchard Beach" in Maine. It's a small beach side town. Very similar to Weirs Beach or Hampton Beach in New Hampshire.

Anyways, it had several HUGE arcades (with everything from 60's electro mechanical games, to the latest vids).

Well imagine the sight of something like 10 Pac Man machines side by side in one arcade, and all of them being played. Now THOSE were the days!

[GGKoul]

Whenever I find an area.