Author Topic: Discussion: Ultracade and the Mame Trademark (Read 125976 times)

JODY · « **Reply #160 on:** February 21, 2005, 05:08:13 pm »

Pcolson, what you say is true. First he is lying that he has a trademark and second he is removing legal competition.

I find his letters apallying. He is trying to get his foot in the door. If he does I think most of us know where it will go. He won't stop with a trademark. The man is obviously not all there.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #161 on:** February 21, 2005, 05:11:38 pm »

I know what you were saying, I was just pointing out what you typed may not have meant what you wanted to say.

Shape D. · « **Reply #162 on:** February 21, 2005, 05:26:41 pm »

This guy is probobly next in line for harrassment.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20516&item=4358404257&rd=1

JODY · « **Reply #163 on:** February 21, 2005, 05:31:04 pm »

Quote from: Shape D. on February 21, 2005, 05:26:41 pm

This guy is probobly next in line for harrassment.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20516&item=4358404257&rd=1

The poor guy or gal won't know what hit 'em...lol.

Shape D. · « **Reply #164 on:** February 21, 2005, 05:37:05 pm »

And now that I think about it how can they get stuff pulled off ebay anyways? does that mean if I try selling my Gamecube Nintendo can get the auction pulled off?

The more I think about it the less I like this guy.

Thenasty · « **Reply #165 on:** February 21, 2005, 05:49:38 pm »

Quote from: Shape D. on February 21, 2005, 05:26:41 pm

This guy is probobly next in line for harrassment.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20516&item=4358404257&rd=1

hehe...he use the word MAME....WTF Foley ?

Goz · « **Reply #166 on:** February 21, 2005, 05:54:44 pm »

Quote from: GGKoul on February 21, 2005, 02:51:53 pm

How many people work at Ultracade??? I mean is it a big company or it just Dave and a couple of buddy's?

It is likely just him and a few buddies. The address for the company is local for me, I might drive by it tomorrow on my way home from work, just to get an idea of size.

-Goz

MonitorGuru · « **Reply #167 on:** February 21, 2005, 05:58:11 pm »

Quote from: Shape D. on February 21, 2005, 05:37:05 pm

And now that I think about it how can they get stuff pulled off ebay anyways? does that mean if I try selling my Gamecube Nintendo can get the auction pulled off?

Actually Dell computers no longer allows their products to be sold on eBay as NEW with Warranty. Go to Fatwallet.com and read the Online Auction forum and see how many eBay seller accounts have been permanently suspended by Dell for simply reselling a new Dell computer.

IntruderAlert · « **Reply #168 on:** February 21, 2005, 06:07:23 pm »

Everyone should give Foley a call and "boo" him

Goz · « **Reply #169 on:** February 21, 2005, 06:09:14 pm »

Do you think he will go as far as send cease and decist orders to people who have MAME in their nicks?

crap I just typed MAME now I owe him .02

darn did it again, I better get to sending Mr. Folly .04 cents for the use of the word.

-Goz

Paul Olson · « **Reply #170 on:** February 21, 2005, 06:10:42 pm »

On the size of the Ultracade building at the San Jose address, I think I read it is 26,000sf.

Paul

Gamecab · « **Reply #171 on:** February 21, 2005, 06:17:35 pm »

Shape D. · « **Reply #172 on:** February 21, 2005, 06:26:53 pm »

I guess hindsight is 20/20, Cuz I would have helped out with this project if I knew crap like this would happen.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,27901.0.html

Its nice how the mame community is willing to defend him, and he's able to turn around and take a dump on us in return.

PaulG · « **Reply #173 on:** February 21, 2005, 06:29:47 pm »

"Suffice to say, everyone who works on MAME is well aware of the attempted theft of our name and logo. Appropriate, measured steps are being taken to solve this issue. This is not something that is going to be helped by a lot of public hand-wringing by those involved with MAME, so don't expect a lot of public comments on the matter. Just trust that it's being taken care of, and if help is needed, it will be asked."

From the man himself, Aaron Giles.

http://aarongiles.com/

KevSteele · « **Reply #174 on:** February 21, 2005, 06:36:25 pm »

Quote from: PaulG on February 21, 2005, 06:29:47 pm

"Suffice to say, everyone who works on MAME is well aware of the attempted theft of our name and logo. Appropriate, measured steps are being taken to solve this issue. This is not something that is going to be helped by a lot of public hand-wringing by those involved with MAME, so don't expect a lot of public comments on the matter. Just trust that it's being taken care of, and if help is needed, it will be asked."

From the man himself, Aaron Giles.

http://aarongiles.com/

Why do I imagine a group of MAMEdev Ninjas slipping quietly through the night...

bioart · « **Reply #175 on:** February 21, 2005, 06:46:02 pm »

All the backpedaling is him just trying to save face. This is not the way to do business. He's trying to expand his market into the home user, but he can't compete there... Ultracade is the right way to do it for the commercial market. But the prices just don't make sense for the hobbyst (or joe blow buying a cab on Ebay)

Argg... people like this make me mad!

sirwoogie · « **Reply #176 on:** February 21, 2005, 06:50:02 pm »

I'll stay on the sideline for my personal opinions on the matter. However, these actions tend to make me think of this audio loop played on the local morning radio.

1UP · « **Reply #177 on:** February 21, 2005, 06:51:18 pm »

Does this mean that Hanaho, who has licensed ROMs in their cabs, will be sued for their infringing "TrueMAME" emulator?

Crazy Cooter · « **Reply #178 on:** February 21, 2005, 06:53:36 pm »

Quote from: PaulG on February 21, 2005, 06:29:47 pm

"Suffice to say, everyone who works on MAME is well aware of the attempted theft of our name and logo. Appropriate, measured steps are being taken to solve this issue. This is not something that is going to be helped by a lot of public hand-wringing by those involved with MAME, so don't expect a lot of public comments on the matter. Just trust that it's being taken care of, and if help is needed, it will be asked."

From the man himself, Aaron Giles.

http://aarongiles.com/

That's all I need to know.

Now about those ninjas...

1UP · « **Reply #179 on:** February 21, 2005, 07:01:23 pm »

BTW, this is just one more in the long list of obstacles I've encountered on my long road to market legal cabinets. I've sorted out all the other issues holding me back, and now this?

Contrary to this guy's assertions, it is possible to license packages of StarRoms in the end-user's name at the time of sale. I have verified this personally with the StarRoms sales team.

So my cabs will feature legally obtained, properly licensed games ONLY, and the user is required to obtain and install MAME themselves to comply with the wishes of the MAMEdevs. Yet I may be held back by this stupid trademark from even mentioning Mame on my site. In the words of Q*bert, @&^*%!!!

JODY · « **Reply #180 on:** February 21, 2005, 07:09:14 pm »

I think since he has a problem with 4000 games sellers would put together discs of freeware games and advertise the systems play 10,000 games.

Gamecab · « **Reply #181 on:** February 21, 2005, 07:16:01 pm »

Tommy Boy · « **Reply #182 on:** February 21, 2005, 07:16:26 pm »

Quote from: 1UP on February 21, 2005, 07:01:23 pm

BTW, this is just one more in the long list of obstacles I've encountered on my long road to market legal cabinets. I've sorted out all the other issues holding me back, and now this?

Contrary to this guy's assertions, it is possible to license packages of StarRoms in the end-user's name at the time of sale. I have verified this personally with the StarRoms sales team.

So my cabs will feature legally obtained, properly licensed games ONLY, and the user is required to obtain and install MAME themselves to comply with the wishes of the MAMEdevs. Yet I may be held back by this stupid trademark from even mentioning Mame on my site. In the words of Q*bert, @&^*%!!!

I know that there are lots of opinions on this topic and few lawyers with real answers (and IANAL)...but let's assume for a minute that he does get a TM for MAME (a big "IF" in my opinion). How does that really impact products such as yours 1up? Your cabs won't say "MAME" anywhere on them, right? If your product doesn't use the name or logo, then you have no need to license anything from Foley. If you mention "MAME" on your website as part of your literature, then as long as you provide the proper attributions (e.g. TM - property of so-and-so) you should be alright. In this very peculiar case, he doesn't own the rights to MAME, only the "brand". But competitors use the brand names of their competition all the time in adds and literature -- they just provide proper attribution.

Patent Doc · « **Reply #183 on:** February 21, 2005, 07:18:00 pm »

OK

I'm almost finished with my spewing on trademarks.

Patent Doc · « **Reply #184 on:** February 21, 2005, 07:19:35 pm »

registered trademarks get the

cholin · « **Reply #185 on:** February 21, 2005, 07:24:33 pm »

Well, who here uses their cabinet for commercial use or plans to sell it. Personally, I dont. Its not like if I use MAME hes going to come to my house and rip my marquee off! I still think this is wrong though, just not as badly as yous.

Shape D. · « **Reply #186 on:** February 21, 2005, 07:37:05 pm »

Quote from: cholin on February 21, 2005, 07:24:33 pm

Well, who here uses their cabinet for commercial use or plans to sell it. Personally, I dont. Its not like if I use MAME hes going to come to my house and rip my marquee off! I still think this is wrong though, just not as badly as yous.

Quote from: 1UP on February 21, 2005, 07:01:23 pm

BTW, this is just one more in the long list of obstacles I've encountered on my long road to market legal cabinets. I've sorted out all the other issues holding me back, and now this?

Contrary to this guy's assertions, it is possible to license packages of StarRoms in the end-user's name at the time of sale. I have verified this personally with the StarRoms sales team.

So my cabs will feature legally obtained, properly licensed games ONLY, and the user is required to obtain and install MAME themselves to comply with the wishes of the MAMEdevs. Yet I may be held back by this stupid trademark from even mentioning Mame on my site. In the words of Q*bert, @&^*%!!!

Pete Harcoff · « **Reply #187 on:** February 21, 2005, 07:38:13 pm »

After reading his letters and some of the other posts, I find this whole thing bizarre.

Crazy Cooter · « **Reply #188 on:** February 21, 2005, 07:49:18 pm »

http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=76627578+&action=Request+Status

He is laying claim to MAME itself. Anything that has to do with MAME (artwork) would come with the package.

"Computer software that enables the emulation of multiple arcade games and their associated hardware, allowing them to run on a general purpose computer operating system"
-From link above-

So if he were granted the TM, he could shut down anything & everything that mentioned MAME and had anything to do with computer software

Tommy Boy · « **Reply #189 on:** February 21, 2005, 07:51:06 pm »

Quote from: Pete Harcoff on February 21, 2005, 07:38:13 pm

After reading his letters and some of the other posts, I find this whole thing bizarre. There are two things I don't understand.

Supposing he gets the trademark, couldn't makers of other cabs get around this by:

A) Not mentioning the MAME software at all and instead simply state that it can play thousands of arcade games?

Or,

B) Simply mention that it can run the MAME software, but include a standard disclaimer (MAME is trademarked by yada-yada-yada)?

It seems to me that the only people this would affect are people who use the MAME logo in any great capacity. It's hardly going to stamp out piracy.

I agree with you Pete. I just went out to Sun's website and found the following quote within 30 seconds:

"...You will be in good hands with Sun. We've already helped thousands of businesses move from legacy IT platforms (like HP-UX, Tru-64 and more) to a solid foundation based on products, technologies and services that offer better resource utilization, higher levels of dependability and lower total cost of ownership."

Does anybody think that HP gave Sun approval to use their registered trademarks as part of a Sun ad -- especially when it's an invitation to customers to migrate away from HP? As long as Sun isn't trying to sell a box that has "HP" on it or an operating system named "HP-UX Killer", etc. I don't think there's a foul here. In the end, owning a trademark doesn't buy you much if you don't have rights to the technology underneath...

Shape D. · « **Reply #190 on:** February 21, 2005, 07:53:27 pm »

Quote from: Crazy Cooter on February 21, 2005, 07:49:18 pm

He is laying claim to MAME itself. Anything that has to do with MAME (artwork) would come with the package.

Couldn't he technically steal mame and sell it with his products.

Thenasty · « **Reply #191 on:** February 21, 2005, 07:54:53 pm »

Quote from: Gozur on February 21, 2005, 05:54:44 pm

It is likely just him and a few buddies. The address for the company is local for me, I might drive by it tomorrow on my way home from work, just to get an idea of size.

-Goz

Don't forget to wear your MAME T-shirt....Oh!! wait, don't let him see you with that shirt on

Tommy Boy · « **Reply #192 on:** February 21, 2005, 07:58:24 pm »

Quote from: Crazy Cooter on February 21, 2005, 07:49:18 pm

http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=76627578+&action=Request+Status

He is laying claim to MAME itself. Anything that has to do with MAME (artwork) would come with the package.

MAME is a software application. He is filing for a trademark. You cannot "lay claim" to a software package with a trademark. If he were trying to claim MAME itself, he would have to do that through a patent, at which point he would be susceptible to a claim of prior art.

Crazy Cooter · « **Reply #193 on:** February 21, 2005, 08:02:09 pm »

Quote from: Shape D. on February 21, 2005, 07:53:27 pm

Quote from: Crazy Cooter on February 21, 2005, 07:49:18 pm
He is laying claim to MAME itself. Anything that has to do with MAME (artwork) would come with the package.
Couldn't he technically steal mame and sell it with his products.

I'd imagine that's the intention. Everything that was "MAME" would become his. There's a few issues with how he's doing it (that I've noticed), but I'm leaving that up to the MAME team to point out as needed.

Right now I STRONGLY encourage all the printers cab builders etc. carry on as usual. I created a business thread on this subject so they can get in touch with each other (please use it guys). Mostly, they should start counting the damages and file lawsuits against him (as an individual). Make sure you guys print and save (a few times), all the letters/emails etc he has sent out. That will be what gets you the money come your court date.

edit/
I just wanted to clarfiy that he wouldn't get MAME as it sits, he would be entitled to call his emulator MAME and no one else could. Of course It probably is MAME in his cabs anyhow...

Crazy Cooter · « **Reply #194 on:** February 21, 2005, 08:04:45 pm »

Quote from: Tommy Boy on February 21, 2005, 07:58:24 pm

Quote from: Crazy Cooter on February 21, 2005, 07:49:18 pm
http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=76627578+&action=Request+Status

He is laying claim to MAME itself.

Patent Doc · « **Reply #195 on:** February 21, 2005, 08:10:02 pm »

OK guys here it goes

Pete Harcoff · « **Reply #196 on:** February 21, 2005, 08:24:40 pm »

Another hypothetical:

Supposing he does get the MAME trademark, what would be the alternative?

Chris · « **Reply #197 on:** February 21, 2005, 08:25:54 pm »

Quote from: Patent Doc on February 21, 2005, 08:10:02 pm

Worse still, to establish a common law mark, you must use it in commerce

Chris · « **Reply #198 on:** February 21, 2005, 08:27:37 pm »

Quote from: Pete Harcoff on February 21, 2005, 08:24:40 pm

Supposing he does get the MAME trademark, what would be the alternative?

dek · « **Reply #199 on:** February 21, 2005, 08:49:34 pm »

dgillmor@sjmercury.com
mantonucci@sjmercury.com

2 guys people should email. They work for the Mercury News which is right around the corner from this scumbags place. Nothing like a public outing in your hometown.


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