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Author Topic: 1000 Reasons not to vote for GW  (Read 28126 times)

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GGKoul

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1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« on: August 19, 2004, 11:33:59 am »
http://www.thousandreasons.org/listB.html

If you scroll down the page, you'll see 1000 reasons not to vote for GW.

-GGKoul

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2004, 11:39:26 am »
http://www.thousandreasons.org/listB.html

If you scroll down the page, you'll see 1000 reasons not to vote for GW.

-GGKoul

Hey man, aren't you Canadian?  What other motivation could you have for starting these threads other than to start arguments, then sit back and watch the fun?   :)

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2004, 11:47:17 am »
It just amazes me with all the time an effort that people put in to making these political websites.   From Flash movies to 1000 point lists..

Even though us Canadian's can vote in the US elections.  Who ever becomes president, their policys often affects us Canadians.

Reminds me of the old line... "When US sneezes, Canada gets a cold"


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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2004, 12:48:07 pm »
It is a pretty impressive effort in terms of volume.

I am very cynical though. I think that a list like this could be created to support or disparage almost any person, so I take them with a grain of salt.  Data and how people percieve it is a very subjective thing.  I would still be saying this even if it was a list in support of Bush.  

So I go with my gut. If a candidate states goals that are in line with mine and works toward them ethically I support him.  I pay no attention to the fact that people get pissed off along the way.  Years of management have taught me that it is impossible to make real changes without pissing a lot of people off in one way or another.

(Colin Powell said "Being responsible sometimes means pissing people off." That is from >>this presentation<<.   It is excellent reading for anyone in a leadership role.)
« Last Edit: August 19, 2004, 02:59:36 pm by Santoro »

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2004, 01:45:11 pm »
It just amazes me with all the time an effort that people put in to making these political websites.   From Flash movies to 1000 point lists..

Even though us Canadian's can vote in the US elections.  Who ever becomes president, their policys often affects us Canadians.

Reminds me of the old line... "When US sneezes, Canada gets a cold"


What amazes me is, I don't even know who the King of Canada is, nor do I care.

I love living in a country that's so great other countries take notice when we sneeze.

If Kerry gets elected, Americans could buy all their prescription drugs from Canada, which will put American companies that have to follow those pesky FDA laws out of business.  Which will put more American out of work.

The fact that people from other countries are trying so hard to get Bush out should tell us how important it is for us to get him in.

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2004, 01:59:41 pm »
I'm glad you don't know who the Prime Minister of Canada is and I'm very proud that we are moving ahead with the changing times.   Not trying to restrict it.

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2004, 02:04:56 pm »
If Kerry gets elected, Americans could buy all their prescription drugs from Canada, which will put American companies that have to follow those pesky FDA laws out of business.  Which will put more American out of work.

You know what's funny, Canadian companies are buying the drugs from US sources and then reselling them online to American's at a cheaper price then what it costs an American to purchase the same drug at their local drug store.

Also, if I have an injury. I don't have to worry about bringing my Credit Card or Insurance information to the hospital.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2004, 02:07:27 pm by GGKoul »

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2004, 02:08:48 pm »
Heh, now someone has to make one that long for Kerry, I'm sure it is possible.  

I don't particularly have an urge to vote for either.  I really don't want either in office :)

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2004, 02:11:51 pm »
Heh, now someone has to make one that long for Kerry, I'm sure it is possible.  

If I find one, I'll be sure to post it here.

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2004, 02:38:08 pm »
I work for/with one of the major pharmaceutical companies and the reason the cost to americans is so high is that what is charged is not the cost of individual medicines, but rather money for past and future research and development. The cost for some reason is not reflective when selling the drugs to companies outside of the US. I'm sure I can inquire why it is, but doubt that it would be an answer that I or any other american would want to hear.

-Goz

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2004, 02:41:49 pm »
Whats a Prime Minister............. ;D ;D
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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2004, 02:55:00 pm »
Whats a Prime Minister............. ;D ;D
A person that tells his/her people to do what the Americans him/her to do.

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2004, 03:02:43 pm »
Whats a Prime Minister............. ;D ;D
A person that tells his/her people to do what the Americans him/her to do.

Excuse me?

If we Canadians acted like Americans... Then why does Canada have:
- Free Health Care
- No Gun Issues
- No Abortion issues
- Allow Gay Marriages
- No Free Speech issues (except for Quebec)

Nobody perfect, but at least we listen to the people and move forward with the times.


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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2004, 03:13:53 pm »
I like Bush, seems like everyone on this site is against him, I think hes doing a good job.
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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2004, 03:14:42 pm »

Excuse me?

If we Canadians acted like Americans... Then why does Canada have:
- Free Health Care
- No Gun Issues
- No Abortion issues
- Allow Gay Marriages
- No Free Speech issues (except for Quebec)

Nobody perfect, but at least we listen to the people and move forward with the times.

The people on our borders voluntarily gave up their guns, sounds to me like our plants in your government are doing their job.

Quebec is like Louisiana, it's just a place to keep the French from contaminating the rest of the nation.

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2004, 03:21:07 pm »
I like Bush, seems like everyone on this site is against him, I think hes doing a good job.

Not everyone, just those who live outside of the U.S.A.

Don't take these threads seriously, they are a waste of time.

Today I have time to waste, so here I am.

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2004, 03:35:48 pm »
Don't take these threads seriously, they are a waste of time.

Today I have time to waste, so here I am.

Me too.. I'm just bored...  But I agree with some of the comments that I've read on this board.  Bush & Kerry are the worst choices for president in a long while.  

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2004, 03:53:46 pm »
I work for/with one of the major pharmaceutical companies and the reason the cost to americans is so high is that what is charged is not the cost of individual medicines, but rather money for past and future research and development. The cost for some reason is not reflective when selling the drugs to companies outside of the US. I'm sure I can inquire why it is, but doubt that it would be an answer that I or any other american would want to hear.

-Goz

They say its to cover "research".
The truth? They are maximizing profit. As long as we continue to pay more, they will charge us more. Other nations are less willing/able to pay the same price, so they lower it accordingly. If they lower it across the board, they make less money (or as they say "lose money").

Blame our doctors as well... prescribing unnessary drugs. They don't get kickbacks in the form of cash (that I know of), but they do get free trips, merchandise, and food.

If it wasn't for their crappy national anthem, I'd move to Canada  ::)
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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2004, 04:31:40 pm »
Me too.. I'm just bored...  

Then for GOD'S SAKE, start a more interesting thread!   :'(

Like maybe: Canada....who?


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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2004, 04:33:53 pm »
haha

That's a funny site...

www.wedonotliveinigloos.com

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2004, 04:41:46 pm »


I found this pretty funny. I'm American and this map looks fine to me.   ;)

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2004, 05:31:50 pm »
Quote
If we Canadians acted like Americans... Then why does Canada have:
- Free Health Care
- No Gun Issues
- No Abortion issues
- Allow Gay Marriages
- No Free Speech issues (except for Quebec)

Free Health Care? non existant, you are paying for it. Just not at the time services are rendered.

Gun issues? We have the right to bare arms (meant to protect) With all rights come responsibilties

No abortion issues. Because we are the land of the free and laws for the people by the people blah blah, we have different laws governing. California - abortions are legal. Other places no. This is a problem because of mixes beleief issues again because we are a collection of more diverse people.

Gay Marriages - you can have them. No offense intended to any gays reading this, but again it is a matter of beliefs and the letter of the law. The law states that a marriage is between a man and a woman (multiple women  in utah). It is an issue here because of perception. The gay activists believe they are being repressed. It's not repression, its law. If enough people want it, have the law changed to a marriage being between two individuals not related by blood.

No free speach issues - people are free to say what they think / feel here, but most believe that their actions come without reactions.

Disclaimer: This reply is not intended to offend any gays or canadians or gay canadians, or the residents of the state of Utah.

I guess all I am trying to say is that we all look at the world and our own countries a little bit differently. I'm lucky to live iin the worlds 5th largest economy (California) and I know my beliefs on the situation are far different than that of my family in Michigan and Mississippi.

To quote Rodney King "Caann''t We all juust get allong?" (spelling reflects the way the man speaks) <-- not intended to offend anyone with a drawl in the way they speak.

Done with disclaimers and my point of view

Just my .02

-Goz

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2004, 10:45:57 pm »
Quote
If enough people want it, have the law changed to a marriage being between two individuals not related by blood.

All those disclaimers and you still managed to offend northern and midwestern residents. You just banned marriages between 2nd/3rd cousins  :-\ . Now they are gonna have to go one town over to meet someone (or they could try online dating).
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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2004, 11:22:05 pm »
well i really didnt have anything against canada cept for they got all pissy when triumph the insult comic dog from the conan obrien show came there and made fun of some retarded quebec separatists or something.  canada got all pissed and said he couldnt come back.....dumb.  hockey sucks. 8)

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2004, 11:25:51 pm »


I found this pretty funny. I'm American and this map looks fine to me.   ;)

That is too funny.

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2004, 11:43:30 pm »


I found this pretty funny. I'm American and this map looks fine to me.   ;)

It map gives American's too much credit.  As over 30% of Americans think Canadian is south of the US.

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2004, 12:02:56 am »
Free Health Care? non existant, you are paying for it. Just not at the time services are rendered.

Yep my taxes pay for it.  But at least it's not a 2 tier system..


Gun issues? We have the right to bare arms (meant to protect) With all rights come responsibilities

I didn't know it was still the 1800's... Where there was no Army and the North & South need assistance.

No abortion issues.

Which is worse??  An Abortion or the people killing doctors that perform them?


Gay Marriages - you can have them.

Why wouldn't a Gay couple that has been together for over many years have the same rights as a traditional common law couple?  They both love each other, they both support each other and they both are upstanding citizens in the community.  Pierre Elliott Trudeau

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2004, 08:53:10 am »
hey you didnt comment on my hockey statement!!  i feel left out  :'(
« Last Edit: August 20, 2004, 08:53:41 am by hulkster »

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2004, 09:37:57 am »
hey you didnt comment on my hockey statement!!  i feel left out  :'(


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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #29 on: August 20, 2004, 09:42:07 am »
Who is Jesus?

-Goz

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #31 on: August 20, 2004, 10:47:11 am »
well i really didnt have anything against canada cept for they got all pissy when triumph the insult comic dog from the conan obrien show came there and made fun of some retarded quebec separatists or something.  canada got all pissed and said he couldnt come back.....dumb.  hockey sucks. 8)

Nobody can make fun off the Quebecers.. not even other Quebecers.  




Hockey sucks...  I know, it's too fast for some of you Americans.  :p

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #32 on: August 20, 2004, 11:51:26 am »
GGKoul,

Your interest in American politics is wonderful.  It's likely much more interesting than the Canadian politics for sure.  Not only do Canadians not really care for their politics, neither does anybody else.

As far as the quote, "As over 30% of Americans think Canadian is south of the US".  I have to say that over 60% think Canada has the same business ethics and technical prowess as China, only 3000 miles closer.  

You don't have any gun problems because you are barred from having them.  You have health care and you pay most of the money you make to take care of that.  (We do too, indirectly with insurance premiums. ) You also have to find a doctor that speaks your language in order to get the proper treatment, because the good ones all come to the USA.

We in the US have what you call an "abortion" issue because some of us still have some moral fibers left.  We have degraded to the point we can't understand right and wrong or take a stand on issues.

As far as free speech, you may find that you are not allowed access to all the news outlets the US has.  Fox has been "banned" in Canada, etc.

Your nation has let in a lot of newcommers because the old are getting older and the new generation won't be able to pick up the huge tab for healthcare in the next few years either, no matter how much you get taxed.  Healthcare, like everything else has to fall within the universal laws of time and money.  If you run out of either of them, you are in trouble.

A 30 day American Boycott of Canada would bring down your entire civilization.  You are protected from all sides by the US.





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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #33 on: August 20, 2004, 12:40:06 pm »
If Kerry gets elected, Americans could buy all their prescription drugs from Canada, which will put American companies that have to follow those pesky FDA laws out of business.  Which will put more American out of work.

Since when were conservatives protectionists?  Did you'all finally get around to stringing Adam Smith up?  What ever happned to free markets and capitalism?

Quote
The fact that people from other countries are trying so hard to get Bush out should tell us how important it is for us to get him in.

Yes...the measure of a good leader is one that the rest of the world views as extraordinarily dangerous and actively wants to see removed from power.  Hitler being a good example of this.

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2004, 12:46:09 pm »
One other problem I find is the drug price issue.

There's a lot of debate, but the fact of the matter is that the USA is the leading producer and developer of drugs in the world, bar none.

In socialist countries like Germany, the drug research funding has been reduced to the point they are no longer a player.  They are like the rest of the world waiting on the USA to help them.  Check this link http://www.corante.com/pipeline/20040101.shtml#67099

Simply put, if research is limited due to price controls then the new medications are not available at ANY PRICE.  When governments artificially force a lower price of a good, the supply drops. If an investment provides a lower return without lowering the risk, the money will flow elsewhere. This means people will continue to see our loved ones die as research is postponed due to lack of funding. That's Econ 101.

How to get drug prices even lower? Simple. Increase supply. If Europe ended price controls, more companies would enter the market, pushing down prices. If the FDA streamlined its standards, costs of bringing new drugs to market would fall, increasing supply. If property rights were protected, the cost of capital for investment in new drugs would fall, increasing supply. That is the answer.

Take a look at California and the energy crisis they faced.  They tried to artificially limit the price of power and their entire grid failed.  Sure you can try and blame Enron, but they were just cashing in on the mistake.  

I follow that very closely because my wife has Huntington's Disease.  She's 36 and in a nursing home.  My 10 year old is at risk.

I don't like it when people who have no idea the stakes attack the people who are working to save her.  The USA is the leader in this genetic and medical research in the world.  I'm looking for a cure for her and my son who is at risk for HD.




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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2004, 01:03:46 pm »

Yes...the measure of a good leader is one that the rest of the world views as extraordinarily dangerous and actively wants to see removed from power.  Hitler being a good example of this.

If Bush is such a threat you should take him out by force, you don't have to go across the ocean to do it, like we did with Sadam.

You can't because, you don't have any guns, and you have accepted the mass murder of unborn children so you don't have the population to form a big enough army.  Well maybe those gays you're allowing to marry can have enough children to protect you.


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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #36 on: August 20, 2004, 01:40:20 pm »
Fredster,  you ought to consider a course in tact.  Your post is not only filled with inaccuracies, it's filled with not-so-nice inaccuracies.

GGKoul,

Your interest in American politics is wonderful.  It's likely much more interesting than the Canadian politics for sure.  Not only do Canadians not really care for their politics, neither does anybody else.

Perhaps you should take a look at what percentage of Americans vote in our elections before getting all high-and-mighty with another country.  Our voter turn-out is no better than Canada's.

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As far as the quote, "As over 30% of Americans think Canadian is south of the US".  I have to say that over 60% think Canada has the same business ethics and technical prowess as China, only 3000 miles closer.  

Much like the U.S. children in canada can only work on farms, in restaurants, and in home-based businesses.  Maybe (or maybe not, for all I know) they import products from countries that use child labor, but the U.S. certainly has no place to be critical there.

Quote
You don't have any gun problems because you are barred from having them.  You have health care and you pay most of the money you make to take care of that.  (We do too, indirectly with insurance premiums. ) You also have to find a doctor that speaks your language in order to get the proper treatment, because the good ones all come to the USA.

They're barred from having handguns and assault weapons.  Canadians hunt more than Americans.  We also bar many dangerous weapons.  We can't buy bazookas, grenades, m-16s, rocket launchers, flame throwers, etc.  So their line is in a slightly different place than us.  We both have Gun Control.

And by any measure Canada's medical system is better than ours.  And cheaper.  Whether paid for by taxes or insurance premiums, it costs far less plain and simple.  They have a lower mortality rate, infant mortality rate, death caused by medical error.  The only bragging rights Americans have for medicine is that we get to pay the most for it.  About 10 or 12 countries have us beat everywhere else.

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We in the US have what you call an "abortion" issue because some of us still have some moral fibers left.  We have degraded to the point we can't understand right and wrong or take a stand on issues.

Don't lump me in with your so called high-morals.  God's all-powerful you know.  If he needs your help, he'll ask.  Pro-life is an immoral position and making abortions illegal is an unworkable solution.  And for whoever it was that said that abortions are legal in California and illegal elsewhere, I suggest you take a look at Roe v. Wade.  It's illegal for a state to ban abortions.

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As far as free speech, you may find that you are not allowed access to all the news outlets the US has.  Fox has been "banned" in Canada, etc.

If that's true, well, that's pretty lame.  Not that Canadians are missing out on anything, since Fox news is ridiculous and irresponsible and unethical, but...I digress.  The censorship is lame.

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A 30 day American Boycott of Canada would bring down your entire civilization.  You are protected from all sides by the US.

That's absurd.  Our Cuban boycot has lasted a little bit more than 30 days and last time I checked Castro is still in power.  Canada, obviously, would not want to sever ties with their rich neighbors, but they'd be fine without us.  Certainly, with a healthy democracy, freedom of speach and press and a largely capitalistic economic policy they would fare better than Cuba.

America is a superpower that effects the entire world, but you're buying a lot of hogwash and propaganda, my friend.  The euro is dominating the dollar, and there is no indication that that will change anytime in the near future.  Many of these countries who you think depend on us actually own us (in the same way a bank owns a houseowner until the house is paid off).  China and Saudia Arabia are a couple of those countries.  

We're also nowhere near as mighty as you like to tell yourself.  Look how difficult Iraq is.  And this is after a decade of economic sanctions and the country disarming itself.  Can you imagine what we would face if we tried even to go into North Korea, let alone China.  I'm not even sure we would win a war with China.  

I wish people like you would realize that your smugness is based on an extreme faslse sense of security.  We HAVE to live in the global community.  I wish more people realized how important it is to get along.

I hope Drew doesn't see this post.  I give him endless crap for making big wind-bag posts like this.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2004, 02:22:43 pm by shmokes »
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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #37 on: August 20, 2004, 02:07:36 pm »
If Bush is such a threat you should take him out by force, you don't have to go across the ocean to do it, like we did with Sadam.

One problem, putting aside the fact that I would be unsuccessful and would only accomplish my own death or imprisonment, is that I live in a democracy and Bush is the legal president.  I'd like to help get him out of office the legal way (by voting him out), but alas, I live in Utah, so I can't help by voting either.  Ranting on message boards is about as effective as I can be.

You kind of lost me on the rest of your argument.  I don't see how criminalizing abortion would help me raise an army.  I don't have any guns, but I live across the street from Ace Hardware and next to a sporting goods store.  Three days from now I could have as many guns as I wanted.  And who are these children of gays supposed to be protecting me from?  Are you okay, Dartful?  I think you might have a little foam you need to wipe off your mouth.
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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #38 on: August 20, 2004, 02:11:59 pm »
shmokes,

I stand by what I said. It must be wonderful to be in College. I'm glad you like it.

Voter turnout.
Voter turnout has nothing to do with anything.

Being Critical:
The US has the right to be critical of anything the same way Canadians and other countries have a right to be critical of us.  We are a superpower, and we act that way.

Healthcare:
How do you know the Canadian health system is better than ours? Back that up.  It's an opinion, not a fact.  There problems with any system. At least we can find a doctor if we need one.

Abortion:
As far as "lumping you in" - I said some of us, not all of us.  There is the side that says this is murder in any eyes.  You should try and see the other side to that argument. It's a big issue.  Just because it can't be banned doesn't mean anything to the moral aspect of it. It doesn't make it right in everybody's eyes.

Same thing about Smoking.

Boycott:
No, it's not.  The comparison between Cuba and Canada is absurd.  Cuba was supported by Russia.  I wouldn't say that their quality of life has improved from the time Castro took control would you?  If it was so nice, then I don't suppose they'd be on boats to FLA would they?  

As far as Hogwash and propganda I'm sorry, but I have served my country in the Army, I have paid taxes and voted in every election there is.  I think that we are the leader of not only the free world, but the entire world.  And I thank God it's us and not France.  If you think otherwise, sorry. I think that's propoganda.  

I think in fact you have fallen prey to those who would undermine the way of life in the US.  It is dividing our culture and destroying our core values.  Look at Canada, they can't even figure out what Language to speak.  They are taxed to the point they want to migrate to the US to escape it.  

Gun Control:
Only the criminals have guns in Canada.  The law abiding citizens had to give theirs up.  I don't see where it will help us.  

Censorship:
Yep, there are other media outlets Banned in Canada.  As far as Fox, I have to support them over any other news outlet.  I think NPR should be shut down myself.  I don't think that's censorship, I think that's business.

Global Community:
When did we ever get along?  The US is the world's policeman because nobody else has the fiber to do something about horrendous situations.

We have freed France, Germany, brought down the Wall, and have established democracy all over this planet.  

More people are free because of the USA then all the others put together.

If the Global community is so valuable to the peace and sanctitty of life, then where are they in the Sudan where thousands of people are dying right now??

What cause is worth fighting for?  Just the ones you think are important?



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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #39 on: August 20, 2004, 02:54:23 pm »
If Bush is such a threat you should take him out by force, you don't have to go across the ocean to do it, like we did with Sadam.

I live in Utah, so I can't help by voting either.

Sorry by your lack of knowlededge of Americans rights, I thought you were a Canadian.


They're barred from having handguns and assault weapons.  Canadians hunt more than Americans.  We also bar many dangerous weapons.  We can't buy bazookas, grenades, m-16s, rocket launchers, flame throwers, etc.  So their line is in a slightly different place than us.  We both have Gun Control.

You CAN buy an M-16 in some states, UTAH is one of those states.

What is an assault weapon?

Do you believe a hand gun is the same as a bazooka?

Stop getting your facts from Bowling for Columbine.

You live in one of the truly free states, if you don't like it move to France.