The olden days......

[BadMouth]

Since we were having a good time reminiscing about old consoles and TVs in an unrelated thread, continue here.

Post pics if you got em.
Unexpectedly found this one last month.
It's from a birthday party.  I'm in the yellow shirt.  Any of my childhood friends on BYOAC? 😀

[wp34]

Activision boxing?

That's a cool picture.

[BadMouth]

Activision boxing?

That's a cool picture.

Pretty sure it would have been Atari, but my dad was always bringing home oddball used systems from the flea market.

[Token]

Did someone say Atari Boxing? My left thumb got PTSD from that game.

[yotsuya]

That looks like Activision Boxing.

[Howard_Casto]

Man I can't find any good pictures from the NES/Atari era.  I've got to think I've lost a photo album or something. 

I remember that game.  It was on the 2600 but I can't remember if it's the official boxing game or not.  I just know it was like rock-em-sock-em robots minus the fun.  Atari kind of sucked.... their best game was the first... combat.  I wore that thing out.  I've been thinking of getting an Atari again because the games can still be had for a song.  I'd want a cheap one that I can mod to use modern video outputs though. 

You know something I've been looking for that I think we'd all like is a really cheap, really small dvd player that takes coaxial in and outputs to composite to be used as a way to hook up the pre-historic consoles. 

[yotsuya]

https://atariage.com/software_page.php?SoftwareID=882

And Atari did not suck. The thousands of hours upon hours I spent playing on that thing prove that statement false.

[BadMouth]

Ok, Boxing by Activision for the Atari2600.
For some reason last night I was thinking there was some other console called Activision.
This morning I woke up and thought...duh.

EDIT: back to reminiscing

When I was a kid, I thought that if a game's cartridge was shaped differently than the standard Atari 2600 ones, it was a higher end game. 

[yotsuya]

My favorite Atari licensee was the Mattel "M Network" stuff. The name just sounds totally radical. My favorite M Network game was Air Raiders. I own a new in box, still shrinkwrapped copy.

[yotsuya]

[Token]

Atari kind of sucked....

I've been thinking of getting an Atari again because the games can still be had for a song. 

[pbj]

When I was a kid, I thought that if a game's cartridge was shaped differently than the standard Atari 2600 ones, it was a higher end game. 

This was basically always true for every system.

[Howard_Casto]

Atari kind of sucked....

I've been thinking of getting an Atari again because the games can still be had for a song. 

I don't see your confusion.  Atari as a whole kind of sucked... that doesn't mean there aren't good games to be had.... there are good games on the virtual boy. 

[yotsuya]

Atari kind of sucked....

I've been thinking of getting an Atari again because the games can still be had for a song. 

I don't see your confusion.  Atari as a whole kind of sucked... that doesn't mean there aren't good games to be had.... there are good games on the virtual boy.

Granted, I never owned or played on a Colecovision or Intellevision console BITD, so maybe I wasn't aware of it,  but I never found the Atari to be lacking. There were plenty of games that played perfectly, and my 1981 awareness was just fine with the games available on the system. The graphics weren't the best, but the playability was there. Missile Command, Space Invaders, Defender, Asteroids, Vanguard and Moon Patrol were all very playable and enjoyable versions.

[Howard_Casto]

Notice how all the games you mentioned had superior arcade versions?  I've had this argument with sega fans before, if your console only had arcade ports then it doesn't have a good library because we now have access to the arcade versions. 

Shoot we didn't even have to wait until emulation.... Once the NES was released many of those titles were re-released on it and they were vastly superior ports. 

Like I said though, that doesn't mean there aren't good games on it.  Just as a whole it's kind of skipable.  I did like many of the activision games though... it's worth it just for them and I would like to get one while they are still relatively cheap. 

I think Pat and Ian said it best on their podcast last week when they were talking about the upcoming Atari vault for steam..... try to name 20 titles on Atari systems that were good and Atari actually has the rights to.... unless you are an Atari super-fan like the guys over at the Atari age forums, it's kind of hard. 

[yotsuya]

I would agree that Activision made the best games.

Some great Atari non-ports/first party games:

Canyon Bomber
Combat
Demons to Diamonds
Haunted House
Maze Craze
Real Sports Baseball
Star Raiders
Super Breakout
Video Pinball
Yars' Revenge

[BadMouth]

Granted, I never owned or played on a Colecovision or Intellevision console BITD, so maybe I wasn't aware of it,  but I never found the Atari to be lacking.

The Colecovision was da bomb.  I had never seen or heard of it until my father brought a used one home from the flea market complete with the steering wheel and dukes of hazard (pretty sure that's why he bought it)
I fired up Donkey Kong expecting an Atari 2600 like experience and then holy ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- it looks just like the arcade game!
OK, maybe it wasn't arcade perfect, but that's what I thought at the time and it was a helluva lot better than the Atari 2600 version.




Somehow my neighbors ended up with one around the same time so we could trade games, but nobody else at school had one.

[yotsuya]

Yeah, I love the Honeycomb cereal barrels and big brown poop - looking ape in the Atari version.

[yotsuya]

Oh M Network, you were so ahead of your time...

http://atariage.com/catalog_thumbs.html?CatalogID=48

That's style.

I used to love the catalogues and manuals almost as much as I loved the games.

[ark_ader]

Yars Revenge.  Enuf said.

[Slippyblade]

Yars Revenge.  Enuf said.

For HOURS at a time.  In the dark, on the carpet.

[RetroGreg]

I know it's Activision, but Kaboom is still one of my favorite games. It's great and still holds up.

[monkeybomb]

Atari came out before Colecovision so it's not fair to compare the two.  Colecovision was way better and even played the actual atari cartridges with an add on module. Before colecovision, atari was lots of fun and it only sucks because time moved on.  I think if we look at the picture from the OP, it's clear that the atari did it's job well.

[vwalbridge]

I know it's Activision, but Kaboom is still one of my favorite games. It's great and still holds up.

Fruit Ninja = Kaboom 2.0

[dkersten]

Notice how all the games you mentioned had superior arcade versions?  I've had this argument with sega fans before, if your console only had arcade ports then it doesn't have a good library because we now have access to the arcade versions. 

Shoot we didn't even have to wait until emulation.... Once the NES was released many of those titles were re-released on it and they were vastly superior ports. 

Your logic is all based on what you can do TODAY, not what you had back then.  Atari was the best when it was the ONLY way you could play arcade games at home.  Face it, as a kid you weren't going to go 3 years without playing games just because you wanted to wait for technology to get better (that you didn't even know was going to come out).  You played at home on the Atari and when you could afford it you went to the arcade to play the "real" games.  For some of us, going to the Arcade was a privilege we seldom had, so when we had the opportunity to play at home it was AWESOME.  And yes, when something better came out YEARS LATER, you played that instead and the Atari became a dust collector.  But that was YEARS later. 

As for today, the way I see it, while some people that stick around here have a love for arcade games of old, MOST people either lose interest quickly in this hobby or are more interested in the building and restoring part than the actual game play.  Twenty years from now there will still be some die hard World of Warcraft players who are building "retro" computers to play that outdated and ancient game.  And some people who played it for a short time will dabble in it just to see if it recaptures what they felt when playing it when it first came out (before they lost interest and went on to the next big thing) before moving on to some other nostalgic idea.

Personally, I moved on from Atari and aside from the couple minutes of nostalgia I got when I fired up the emulator, I haven't had any interest in going back.  But back then it was the coolest thing in the world and I loved playing for hours on end. 

As for Intellivision, it isn't much different but I still spent dozens of hours playing D&D and Utopia on it.. LOVED those games.  Are they the best in the genre (or title) now?  No, but that isn't the point.  At least not to me it isn't. 

[Malenko]

Notice how all the games you mentioned had superior arcade versions?  I've had this argument with sega fans before, if your console only had arcade ports then it doesn't have a good library because we now have access to the arcade versions. 

Shoot we didn't even have to wait until emulation.... Once the NES was released many of those titles were re-released on it and they were vastly superior ports. 

Your logic is all based on what you can do TODAY, not what you had back then

My problem with that logic is that I don't have fond memories playing the arcade version in my living room, I have fond memories of playing the inferior console ports. I don't allow someone else's opinion define what I consider a good library.  He's totally right to have that opinion and I wont try to change it, doesn't mean I have to agree with it though. Some people think FFVII was good, all you can do is agree to disagree and move on.

[Howard_Casto]

And I don't get people relying on nostalgia to buy stuff.  I get it, I have fond memories of consoles as well (not the 2600 though, NES FTW) but nostalgia will only be a temporary feeling if you live with the thing again.  After that wears off there has to be something there that appeals to you now.  I appreciate and respect the past, but I don't live in it.  If I want to play a particular title, I want to play the best possible version of it, which is exactly why my snes copies of the MK and SF games have been collecting dust ever since the day I discovered emulation. 

[wp34]

As for Intellivision, it isn't much different but I still spent dozens of hours playing D&D and Utopia on it.. LOVED those games.  Are they the best in the genre (or title) now?  No, but that isn't the point.  At least not to me it isn't.

Loved me some Utopia.  It is the first SIM that I can remember seeing/playing.   

[Malenko]

And I don't get people relying on nostalgia to buy stuff.  I get it, I have fond memories of consoles as well (not the 2600 though, NES FTW) but nostalgia will only be a temporary feeling if you live with the thing again.  After that wears off there has to be something there that appeals to you now.  I appreciate and respect the past, but I don't live in it.  If I want to play a particular title, I want to play the best possible version of it, which is exactly why my snes copies of the MK and SF games have been collecting dust ever since the day I discovered emulation.

You cant speak in absolutes for everyone. I have SNES and still frequently play it, same goes for my Saturn and others. I mean I buy giant 250+ pound boxes that play a single game based on nostalgia and take up a ton of room; a console I can toss in a box if I decide to not play it for a while is no big deal. What you consider the best isnt always what someone else considers the best; I prefer Spy Hunter on NES over the arcade version even if the arcade version is better.

Im not gonna go back and forth with you, I'm just telling you different strokes for different folks.

[pbj]

Soon as a new system comes out, I very rarely have any interest in playing the old ones ever again.  If the PS4 read DVDRs better, the 360 would have been in the trash a year ago.  Wii and PS3 haven't been touched in almost 2 years.  I've gotten rid of anything older than that.  No ragrets.

[vwalbridge]

Soon as a new system comes out, I very rarely have any interest in playing the old ones ever again.  If the PS4 read DVDRs better, the 360 would have been in the trash a year ago.  Wii and PS3 haven't been touched in almost 2 years.  I've gotten rid of anything older than that.  No ragrets.

I used to be just like pbj...latest and greatest or GTFO.  However, within the last couple of years, I've turned around and started moving backwards in time. I'm starting to appreciate the "oldies" more and more.

Sure I still enjoy the brand new stuff and play it when I get the chance but I feel like the modern gaming industry has hit a bit of a point of diminishing returns. Especially moving from the PS3 erra to the PS4 era. There was just not a far enough leap in technology to this current gen. There doesn't seem to be much innovation from the major developers any longer. Same games just regurgitated with higher resolution. IMO, Nintendo and indy devs are the only guys making big enough strides right now.

So for me, re-enjoying some old classics is what I enjoy at the moment.

[Slippyblade]

Soon as a new system comes out, I very rarely have any interest in playing the old ones ever again.  If the PS4 read DVDRs better, the 360 would have been in the trash a year ago.  Wii and PS3 haven't been touched in almost 2 years.  I've gotten rid of anything older than that.  No ragrets.

I used to be just like pbj...latest and greatest or GTFO.  However, within the last couple of years, I've turned around and started moving backwards in time. I'm starting to appreciate the "oldies" more and more.

Sure I still enjoy the brand new stuff and play it when I get the chance but I feel like the modern gaming industry has hit a bit of a point of diminishing returns. Especially moving from the PS3 erra to the PS4 era. There was just not a far enough leap in technology to this current gen. There doesn't seem to be much innovation from the major developers any longer. Same games just regurgitated with higher resolution. IMO, Nintendo and indy devs are the only guys making big enough strides right now.

So for me, re-enjoying some old classics is what I enjoy at the moment.

I second this.  Not to mention that across all the consoles there have just been so many games that were worth playing.  For example, I played Chrono Trigger for the first time last year.  Amazing game, loved it.  There are games on almost every console that I never played - and I can play them now.

[pbj]

That's nice and everything, but it's hard to go back once you've held that Dualshock 4.

[harveybirdman]

It's funny, what I loved about Bushido Blade is sort of what I hate about all modern gaming.

Besides being tantalizingly realistic when it comes to getting hit with a sword (---fudgesicle--- your life bar ---smurfette---) I absolutely loved that in Bushido Blade you ran around stages and weren't constrained by a 2D themed stage per the status quo of most of it's contemporaries.

Unfortunately this concept became invasive, to the point now where every game is in the first person and only the skins seem to change.

I admire the old games for having to be fun within the constraints of the technology.  I think of 8 Bit as an art form.  With regards to Atari, I was not as lucky as some, I ended up with the 400 where most had the 2600.  Still I played enough Combat at my friends houses to remember the system fondly.  I don't emulate it though,  however I've considered doing so for Demon Attack.

[Ginsu Victim]

I have a Demon Attack cartridge I could send you if you have a system to run it.

[harveybirdman]

Meh still don't have a 2600, but we're so close I'll keep that on the list of excuses to have a beer with ya some day.

[Ginsu Victim]

I might have an extra one of those as well. I play all of my 2600 games on the 7800 anyway. (We're both in Oklahoma?)

[lcmgadgets]

I never got into the early console stuff--I was old enough & had access to the arcades. The console versions of the arcade games just didn't measure up for me.

With the exception of the dedicated combat game my parents bought us 1 Christmas. We played that thing to death. Broke 1 of the joysticks--melted it back together a dozen times. It was from learning how to steer the tank on that thing that I was instantly decent at Battlezone when it appeared. & I learned the advantage of running backwards in a rocket fight in Doom--you're running away from his rockets while he charges into yours...heh heh heh.

It wasn't until the NES came along that I really started to pay attention. But the arcades were still there. & computer games weren't doing it for me either--the early 1's were just arcade knock offs. It wasn't until Elite came along that I got into that. After that I was an arcade/PC gamer exclusively until the arcades were gone. Now I have an Xbox360, PS3 and a WiiU. But I'd trade them all & probably my brother's soul too to bring the arcades back

[harveybirdman]

I might have an extra one of those as well. I play all of my 2600 games on the 7800 anyway. (We're both in Oklahoma?)

Claremore,  so not exactly neighbors,  but I've considered going down to Lawton area a couple of times for machine pickups.

[Le Chuck]

I don't think it's nostalgia so much as the comfort of the familiar. Same reason I watch movies I like over and over, same reason I read and reread the same novels. Yo! Noid sucks but I'll still play a few levels when I get the chance because it fits like old jeans. Video pinball is lame but I found myself playing it for 15 minutes not long ago. Like an old security blanket.

[Ginsu Victim]

I might have an extra one of those as well. I play all of my 2600 games on the 7800 anyway. (We're both in Oklahoma?)

Claremore,  so not exactly neighbors,  but I've considered going down to Lawton area a couple of times for machine pickups.

Yeah, definitely not neighbors. I've never even been up your way (Sallisaw and Drumwright are about as close as I've ever gotten).

Lawton machines have dried up lately.

[vwalbridge]

But I'd trade them all & probably my brother's soul too to bring the arcades back

How nice of you. 

[dkersten]

Soon as a new system comes out, I very rarely have any interest in playing the old ones ever again.  If the PS4 read DVDRs better, the 360 would have been in the trash a year ago.  Wii and PS3 haven't been touched in almost 2 years.  I've gotten rid of anything older than that.  No ragrets.

This statement would make this entire hobby ironic (or driven purely by nostalgia). 

But it is true for most people.  I didn't stop playing arcade games, Atari, NES, SNES, etc. because the games were bad, I just stopped because something newer, "funner", shinier, better, or just fresher feeling came out.  Plus we grew up as the first generation to get saturated with entertainment.  It got old.  So the newer games were a glimmer of hope that we could get interested again in playing games, but it turned out that we were just sick of playing.  Now after a few years (or decades) of being in the "real world" and not having time to while away our lives playing games, going back to what we remember best is what drives us there.

Granted, it doesn't fit universally.  Some people prefer the older games to the newer games.  I go back because of nostalgia but when it comes down to it, I would rather spend my time playing some Fallout 4 than playing DK.  Doesn't mean I won't fire up a game of DK once in a while (or play through Fallout 2 for a hundredth time), just that the majority of my time is spent on the newer stuff, which I find is often just as good but in a cooler package.  I too go back and watch the same movies sometimes, but more often I watch new ones.  Same with books.  YMMV.

[Howard_Casto]

I never got into the hobby for nostalgic reasons.  I started getting into emulation in the mid 90's, which was the height of the street fighter boom in the arcades.

There are two types of people that collect old junk...... the guy that spends 4k in his 70's for a pedal car he wanted as a child that he obviously can't use or get any enjoyment out of, or the guy that is willing to hunt down an pay a couple of hundred for a metal oscillating fan because the 15 dollar one they sell at Walmart is an ugly, cheap, piece of junk. 

I fall into the second category..... the "they don't build them like they used to" one.  I can't get a lot of enjoyment out of most of the 70's consoles because the games, objectively speaking, weren't all that great, but I can enjoy stuff on the NES, SNES and ect because those games still hold up and the technology advanced enough to where a game designer could actually make the game they wanted to make.  You look at a lot of the genres and just games in general from the 8 and 16 bit era and they are good games that they just don't make anymore. 

That being said, around the 64 bit era is where things get redundant.  Why play Mario 64 when Mario Galaxy 2 plays and looks much better?  I have very little reason to re-visit those newer consoles.  I think the wii is going to be an exception though because of all those zapper games and motion controls.  The old stuff still holds up though..... Mario Maker is really just a mash-up of the old Mario games and Mario Paint and everybody loves it.  But yeah, I'm usually having more fun on the Wii U and Xbox One then on the older stuff. 

[dkersten]

"They don't make them like they used to" is very subjective based completely on your desires. 

I usually see that statement exactly the opposite of how you do: 
They don't make them like they used to.. a new muscle car will have 500+ hp, better gas mileage, better emissions, can go faster, can race better, can drive across the country and back without needing repair, and is safer by an order of magnitude, so now they make them so much better.
They don't make computers like they used to.. now they are faster, smaller, and take less energy to run (by several orders of magnitude).
They don't make games like they used to.. now they have great graphics, real time physics, better interfaces, and are far more in depth than they ever were.

I can keep going on over and over, but the problem is it is all subjective.  Some of the things I find "better" you might see as worse.  Or the things I might find "better" are things you might think are inconsequential.  And we are both right. 

[Howard_Casto]

Not really.  Many things are objectively better.  That metal fan is a prime example.  They used a really good bearing on those things and they were nearly indestructible.  You can run one of those things for 30 years non-stop and they are fine.  Meanwhile if I wake up in the middle of the night an knock my pos fan off the night stand it's probably broke. 

It's the same way with games, but often even more clear-cut.  If you want to play a side-scrolling beat-em-up, for example, you pretty much have to look at the classic consoles and emulation because, aside from a rare exception once in a blue moon, they just don't make them at all period....  forget about making them "better". 

[Token]

I still regularly use some of my great-grandfather's tools. Nothing made in the 2010s will be used by our children.

We live in the age of planned obsolescence.

[BadMouth]

Well if we're bitching about newer games.....
The way most modern games play just doesn't do anything for me.
Most of them feel like a movie playing and I just have to press some buttons to keep the movie going.
Sometimes I mess up and have to repeat a scene.
Whether I've gotten better with practice or have critical thinking skills is irrelevant.
Everything including your ability to hit an enemy is based on mindlessly acquired experience points.
I played through the newer Tomb Raider and enjoyed it from a story and cinematic perspective. 
I played maybe the first half hour of Alan Wake, but it just seemed like more of the same. 
I sank 10 or 20 hours into skyrim before it seemed pointless.  It was just a bunch of "go here do this", again and again.
I accept that other people enjoy this, but it's just not for me.

I played Limbo obsessively until I beat it because the puzzles were enjoyable.
There's a weird game called 140 that I also enjoy because I improve with practice and it also has some puzzle elements.
The other night I stayed up an extra hour trying to beat the level boss on a modern streets of rage knock off because it was challenging.
I will spend an hour or two racing the same damn track (intermediate or advanced) with the same damn car on Ridge Racer 2 because it is challenging.

[dkersten]

Not really.  Many things are objectively better.  That metal fan is a prime example.  They used a really good bearing on those things and they were nearly indestructible.  You can run one of those things for 30 years non-stop and they are fine.  Meanwhile if I wake up in the middle of the night an knock my pos fan off the night stand it's probably broke. 

It's the same way with games, but often even more clear-cut.  If you want to play a side-scrolling beat-em-up, for example, you pretty much have to look at the classic consoles and emulation because, aside from a rare exception once in a blue moon, they just don't make them at all period....  forget about making them "better".

And I could say that a metal blade is dangerous if you have kids, so plastic is far superior if safety is the more important criteria, and the price is higher than ten desk fans that would each last me a few years before breaking and probably be UL listed by todays standards where that old fan probably isn't.  You can certainly say the bearings are going to last longer or that the fan could take more abuse without breaking down.  But you can't claim that those factors are always the most important to all people.  That would be a subjective statement. 

I don't disagree that stuff made several decades ago was built to last, and if you looked in my shop you would find many examples of older tools that I prefer over something newer.  I just can't say that everyone shares my opinion.  A good example would be the Delta Unisaw.  Any experienced woodworker that has used an old one and a new one would tell you that the old one was built better.  I am actually looking at buying a Unisaw right now, and while I am sure I could spend a little more and find one of the old ones that were built stronger, the features of the new versions weigh in just as strong for me so I don't see a reason not to buy a new one.  As a whole, in my opinion they are equal, so the better value for me is the newer one.