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Author Topic: Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!  (Read 24214 times)

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harveybirdman

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Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!
« on: December 17, 2015, 07:51:52 pm »
Anybody else waiting for the movie to start with overweight middle aged people and acne infested teenagers?

Grievence list to follow.... lol
« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 11:20:35 pm by harveybirdman »

BadMouth

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Re: Star Wars 7
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2015, 10:23:54 pm »
Theater was too dark to tell.   I watched episode V for the first time ever on Sunday so I'm not exactly a hardcore fan. 😀

I kept calling it star force to mess with people.

I thought it was great.   Harrison Ford was great.   Only thing that I didn't like was how R2D2 just woke up at the right time for no special reason.  Maybe upon watching it again,  it was because Luke's daughter walked in the room and he was waiting for her, but I didn't notice...or remember if she was around him earlier. I wanted someone to repair him.

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« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 10:27:01 pm by BadMouth »

BadMouth

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Re: Star Wars 7
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2015, 10:25:40 pm »
Oh,  and I like how the bad guy is an engineer from Prometheus and this is all going to tie into Aliens.

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harveybirdman

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Re: Star Wars 7
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2015, 10:37:01 pm »
Let me just preface this by saying I REALLY wanted to like this movie.

However I just cant love it after seeing it.

I will say this they definitely captured the spirit of Star Wars and it's nothing the can't fix with better writing in the subsequent films. But Jesus Christmas characters telling you how the feel?!?! Hallmark of poor writing.

BadMouth

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Re: Star Wars 7
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2015, 10:52:17 pm »
Yeah a lot of it seemed like it was written for 13 year olds.  I accept that is their other target audience.
 
I thought the cinematography and visuals were great.   Might have overplayed the game of thrones style cgi set augmentations, but not too badly.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 10:57:50 pm by BadMouth »

harveybirdman

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Re: Star Wars 7
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2015, 11:09:57 pm »
Agreed, I have no complaints on the visuals.

Kylo Ren's character and Adam Driver's performance was very well done.

Just too much repetition of themes from a New Hope and McGuffins galore had me asking too many questions to suspend disbelief.

And am I to believe that the entire muster of the resistance fleet was a handful of xwings? No Y wings or A wings? No corellian ships?  And it was so disappointing not to have rebel pilots yelling as the explode saying stuff like "They came from behind"

« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 11:21:36 pm by harveybirdman »

harveybirdman

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Re: Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2015, 12:55:00 am »
Kylo Ren saves the movie.

I need to watch it again without all the talking audience and clapping to properly evaluate the dialogue fully.

How did the stupid pirates know a mere hours after that the first order was looking for BB8?

Why didn't the first order just blow up the rebel base with the first shot?

Why the hell did the cast a young ---Bad words, bad words, whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when saint censors you?--- looking guy as the admiral that gave the Hitler speech?

Why does Snoke look like the aliens from prometheus?



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Re: Star Wars 7
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2015, 01:19:10 am »
Let me just preface this by saying I REALLY wanted to like this movie.

However I just cant love it after seeing it.

I will say this they definitely captured the spirit of Star Wars and it's nothing the can't fix with better writing in the subsequent films. But Jesus Christmas characters telling you how the feel?!?! Hallmark of poor writing.

If only someone could have predicted that JJ Abrams would produce a film with piss-poor writing.  Oh wait, I did.  Seriously did you see the last two Star Trek films?  To be fair though the trailer for ST 3:  "The afterthought" was released..... The fast and furious guy??  Seriously???  Can we have JJ back?

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Re: Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2015, 01:22:39 am »
I am a total Star Wars Purist... And I thought JJ nailed it perfectly. The only gripe would be Carrie Fishers botox injections... The woman couldn't open her mouth!!! I thought this was better than all of the prequels and Return of the Jedi.... It is a solid top three star wars movie... to me it beats A New Hope and is one step back from Empire. It was awesome.
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BadMouth

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Re: Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2015, 09:05:18 am »
I am a total Star Wars Purist... And I thought JJ nailed it perfectly. The only gripe would be Carrie Fishers botox injections...

I wasn't aware of the botox injections, but it explains a lot.
I kept waiting for her to start acting, but she never made a single facial expression.  :lol

It was definitely better than the prequels.  This was more true to the world created in the originals.
One of the things that bothered me about episode 1 was that the style of everything strayed too far from the originals.
I know it was supposed to be an earlier time, but not that much earlier.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2015, 09:11:26 am by BadMouth »

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Re: Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2015, 09:59:18 am »
I am a total Star Wars Purist... And I thought JJ nailed it perfectly. The only gripe would be Carrie Fishers botox injections...

I wasn't aware of the botox injections, but it explains a lot.
I kept waiting for her to start acting, but she never made a single facial expression.  :lol

It was definitely better than the prequels.  This was more true to the world created in the originals.
One of the things that bothered me about episode 1 was that the style of everything strayed too far from the originals.
I know it was supposed to be an earlier time, but not that much earlier.

ha ha ha...
Well I guess George Lucas was just too much into the spectacle and flash of it all... (besides ya gotta sell toys!) I agree with you 100%. It felt to me to be closer to a cartoon than part of the Star Wars universe. 
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats.

harveybirdman

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Re: Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2015, 10:00:50 am »
Stylistically they nailed it, but Howard is dead on about the script.

Add me to the Carrie Fisher's performance was awful list... I mean seriously, you son turned to the dark side, you've been estranged from your baby daddy for 15 plus years and you fail to have any emotion at all upon seeing him and an inappropriate amount of emotion at his death?

There were many problems, at least this time around though we have great visuals and no Jake Lloyd.

I loved Rey, Ren, and Finn, they were very well acted even with bad dialogue at times.

But Phasma was a useless character and so was the mas kaneda or whatever her name was.... horrible lines and a CGI character for what?  Oooh you're supposed to get that I'm a oracle type character that sets our heroes on the right path...  Meh... and the Cantina "Song" that JJ was so proud of?  It sucked, just another of a ridiculous line of allegorical references to past films exploited for cheap emotional plays on the audience.

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Re: Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2015, 02:52:12 pm »


But Phasma was a useless character and so was the mas kaneda or whatever her name was.... horrible lines and a CGI character for what?  Oooh you're supposed to get that I'm a oracle type character that sets our heroes on the right path...  Meh... and the Cantina "Song" that JJ was so proud of?  It sucked, just another of a ridiculous line of allegorical references to past films exploited for cheap emotional plays on the audience.


You gotta understand there will be more movies... that is the beauty of it. So any characters you felt were short changed will be back. Look at Boba Fett, that dude had like 5 lines in the movie. Hell we didn't even know the dudes name until he haphazardly fell into the sarlac pit. Yet everyone says he is a bad ass character. Phasma could be something to keep an eye on in future movies. And yes there were a few nods and a bit "cover songy" when it came to the plot. It was very similar to A New Hope, but to me that is what I want in a Star Wars movie. It was funnier than anything we have seen to this point, it had great action, I thought the characters were fun and nailed their parts perfectly and I think it opens us up to a lot of good stuff going forward. It was emotionally satisfying when JJ and the rest of the crew had almost stupid expectations and to be able to deliver to the level they did was not only impressive it was almost a miracle it turned out as great as it did.

It's not perfect but hell there are probably 5 perfect movies in the world. I thought they did an unbelievable job.
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats.

harveybirdman

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Re: Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2015, 03:24:05 pm »
I understand having plot holes for subsequent movies to fill, but I feel like the audience was duped by HEY IT'S STAR WARS YOU LOVE IT, pay no attention that the plot is riddled with holes and advancing at light speed.


I don't feel like my expectations were stupid.  I had high hopes after reading plot leaks, many of the main conventions of the story are still appealing to me.  But my biggest fear from the get go was that it would be a cash grab only with minimal focus on artistry of the story.  At least they got the artistry of the style perfect.

I didn't mind a nod here or there to the OT, but it was WAY overdone and exactly JJ's formula.  Which obviously is more about making financially successful movies than it is about being caretaker of what has become a transcendent mythology of our time.

That's what bothers me the most, is that too few people care about making a coherent continuation of the mythos that is so fleshed out that there is little excuse to not adequately explain the political environment of the galaxy.  Hell even the prequels managed to get that right.

Why would Luke even have a map to himself in the first place?  Why does the First order spend quintillions of space dollars on a weapon that can only fire twice? Have they not learned their lesson?  Starkiller base was completely unnecessary, as were the space pirates and CGI creatures aboard Han's freighter.

Also isn't a bit convenient that Han and Chewie just happened to be flying by a prostrate Millennium Falcon?  Why was the Janitor on a strike mission to Jakku?

It goes on and on....

I'm happy that Abrams isn't returning, maybe we can get an Episode 8 that puts things back on track.


BadMouth

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Re: Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2015, 04:19:22 pm »
Well, since nobody else seems to have seen it yet......

Which obviously is more about making financially successful movies than it is about being caretaker of what has become a transcendent mythology of our time.

I am not a hardcore fan.  When I watch the old movies I see Hollywood money makers of the time, not transcendent mythology.
I think the reverence for them is blown way out of proportion to what they actually were. 
Star Wars feels more like fantasy than science fiction to me, so I don't have the same expectation of things being explained.

Why would Luke even have a map to himself in the first place? 
So he could be found when the time was right.

Why does the First order spend quintillions of space dollars on a weapon that can only fire twice? Have they not learned their lesson?  Starkiller base was completely unnecessary
I'm sure the senate being obliterated will play a role in the following chapters.  Two shots would have destroyed both the government and the military of the resistance.  No need for a third.  :)  I agree about rehashing the old story though.  Another series of bombing runs down a metal canyon? again?

Also isn't a bit convenient that Han and Chewie just happened to be flying by a prostrate Millennium Falcon?
They were actively scanning for it.  They commented that if they could pick it up easily that the first order also could.  That's why they were looking for a different ship to transport BB-8 to the resistance.

Why was the Janitor on a strike mission to Jakku?
I got nothing for that one.  :lol



« Last Edit: December 18, 2015, 04:21:17 pm by BadMouth »

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Re: Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2015, 04:41:14 pm »
Just saw it.

Thoroughly enjoyable even with the holes and Fisher's acting.

It did start to get bothersome just how much it "borrowed" from A new hope though.

Desert planet first thing
Bombing +another+ death start
the cantina scene
hiding under the floor in the millenium falcon
Busting the girl out of the space station


But, wth, it was fun, funny, and very much in the school of the original trilogy.


harveybirdman

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Re: Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2015, 04:43:22 pm »
Yeah it's pretty okay.

I just am not willing to accept that a Star Wars film can't be made to satisfy sophisticated fans such as myself. 

Here's to hoping they come closer next time.

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Re: Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2015, 06:50:24 pm »
He only worked sanitation while on the starkiller (name is a nod for Lucas' first idea for naming Luke.), he was moved into a fighting role later. He even states plainly that the fight we saw was his very first battle.

I am a huge and slightly crazy Star Wars fan, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. My only beef was the ease in which Rae learned her powers. But that was minor, in my mind.

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Re: Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2015, 10:21:33 pm »
Just got back from seeing it a second time. I liked it even better this time.

harveybirdman

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Re: Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2015, 10:40:40 pm »
No surprise there prequel lover ;)

wp34

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Re: Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2015, 11:39:19 pm »
No surprise there prequel lover ;)

That's fair.☺

I'm also a huge fan of the expanded universe and this movie just took a huge dump all over it effectively wiping out all the books I've bought and read. Even so I thought it was a fantastic movie. It had to be great for me to get over what it did to the expanded universe.

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Re: Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2015, 06:41:49 am »
Add me to the Carrie Fisher's performance was awful list... I mean seriously, you son turned to the dark side, you've been estranged from your baby daddy for 15 plus years and you fail to have any emotion at all upon seeing him and an inappropriate amount of emotion at his death?

So Leia leaves Han, hooks up with Lando, has a love child that becomes a storm trooper and then said storm trooper kills Lando?  I'm just speculating because I haven't seen the movie and you don't kill Han Solo off...I mean unless you want to be ---smurfette--- slapped...

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Re: Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2015, 11:44:07 am »
Add me to the Carrie Fisher's performance was awful list... I mean seriously, you son turned to the dark side, you've been estranged from your baby daddy for 15 plus years and you fail to have any emotion at all upon seeing him and an inappropriate amount of emotion at his death?

So Leia leaves Han, hooks up with Lando, has a love child that becomes a storm trooper and then said storm trooper kills Lando?  I'm just speculating because I haven't seen the movie and you don't kill Han Solo off...I mean unless you want to be ---smurfette--- slapped...

Ha-ha, ok.
Why don't you come back after you've seen the movie and we'll chat some more about this. The thread DOES say spoilers.

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Re: Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2015, 05:10:47 pm »
Just saw it but I think the theater sound (which is brand new, not even 2 weeks old) was screwed up because while the sound effects were awesome, all dialogue sounded like it was coming from a 3" speaker in an old TV inside the movie.  In fact, in the opening scene I thought the camera was going to pan back to be a tv they were watching.  Then the whole movie sounded like that (for dialogue anyway), which disconnected me from the whole thing.

The 3d was done well, but I dislike 3d in general and I could have done without it.  Thankfully it wasn't over the top and hard to watch.  Unfortunately all the good screens are only showing 3d and only the crappy ones at the ends are doing the 2d versions.. my home theater is better than those screens so I opted for the 3d.  It wasn't bad though.

As for the story, meh, it was OK, I just don't buy a few things (yes, spoilers here as the title says):
First, nobody knew about the starkiller, and nobody was doing anything to stop it.  How is this?  The Republic is supposed to be this massive coalition of all the worlds and they don't know anything about it?  And they have no defense against it?  So hundreds of billions of people, basically the center of the galactic economy and the strongest military force in the galaxy is blown away without warning by some rogue organization that they don't even know exists?
Second, once this happens, the rebels, or rather the resistance (who are they resisting?) suddenly have detailed plans of this thing, and some sanitation worker who was just in his first battle as a stormtrooper happens to know how the thing works... "Uh, yeah, I was taking out the trash and overheard the engineers talking about how it works and how insanely simple it is to defeat, and here's how."
Third, speaking of the resistance, who are they resisting?  If the rebels won and the Republic is in power, why is there a resistance?  And if there is a resistance, why aren't they against the central governing body with the biggest military instead of being supported by them?  It just doesn't make much sense and seems like too much of an effort to emulate episode 4.
Four, so they JUST find out about this starkiller and within a few seconds come up with a way to destroy it.  No build up, no suicide mission to save the galaxy, just "Oh, here's a detailed map of the planet we knew nothing about with the vulnerabilities highlighted.  Han, you conveniently get past their shields since you've done it before, and we will send in a couple dozen x-wings to blow it up. *yawn* ok, let's get this done so I can take my nap."
Five, why just repeat Episode 4?  I mean, get SOME originality here.  even the characters seemed to look at this as routine, as if they had all done it a few dozen times.. "OK guys, got another Sith dude with a planet killing laser beam.  Like usual, there is a small weakness that is easily exploitable, and surprise surprise, you have to fly through a metal canyon to get to it.  Whose turn is it to fly the canyon this time?  No Jorgie, you got the last two, and Frank, after you botched the one last Tuesday and almost cost us another planet you aren't on the list again until you can get more practice shooting wamp rats.  Two meters wide fellas, two meters, we went over this a hundred times..."
Six, so a trained Sith who was able to kill all the other Students at Luke's academy can't beat an untrained girl who just figured out she has the Force? 

That being said, although I am sure it was unintended, it felt like there was a nod to the expanded universe in the whole end fight.. instead of Chewy dying trying to rescue people from a planet that was coming apart, Han dies and Chewy kicks off the series of events that causes the planet to break up.  I liked it, even though I'm unhappy with Han dying.  I wish there was more buildup and more emotion in it.. I literally shed tears when Chewy died in the books, and when Han dies in the movie I just kinda shrugged and went "meh."  Of course, the dialogue that was there was coming from that tin can behind the screen so maybe that is why I didn't feel anything.

Overall, WAY better than the prequel trilogy and not too bad.  Definitely "Star Wars" and the cinematics were outstanding.  A little too quick to segue from scene to scene and it felt like they were trying to stuff an extra hour into it but cut it down by 45 minutes.  I would have rather had a little less of the early build up and more detail in the end (and more drama) but my expectations are build mostly on the expanded universe stories, which had all the detail, backstory, and good writing that none of the movies had.  If I had only watched the movies and nothing more, I would probably feel this one was in the top 3 as well.  Instead I just feel a little let down but excited for the next one. 

One more note:  I have heard they intend to do some filler movies to cover other stories in the universe and expand the history.  The chick at the bar alluded to it by saying there was another story behind how she got Luke's original lightsaber.  I could definitely get behind a new story line that has the elements of "after the war", sort of a post-apocalyptic setting for the planets (like the first desert planet in this movie) that is picking up the pieces after the war, doesn't really know the story, only myths, legends, and rumors, but end up on adventures of their own.  This one started that way but turned into the Episode 4 remake at the end.  So much potential in this universe, just too much pandering to the marketing people.  I still have hopes...

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Re: Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2015, 06:59:59 pm »
I still have hopes...

Yes, but is it "A New Hope"?

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Re: Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2015, 07:27:34 pm »
Saw this on Wednesday evening and loved it. Good call on Carrie Fisher's botox, she felt like some kind of robot. All of the young and new characters/actors were great, I left the theater longing for the next part.

About Rey's quick ascent to Jedi badass, what if she had some kind of training as a kid, then had her memories altered? Touching the light saber could have been a trigger, as we were shown what could be glimpses of those memories. Also, both she and Finn tell us they've heard all the stories of Jedi knights etc, they might have grown up playing Jedi's, with home made sabres, fighting with their buddies?

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Re: Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2015, 08:31:05 pm »
While Reys quick mastery of her powers is indeed somewhat inexplicable, it doesn't really bother me as much as having a political climate that makes no sense and the ridiculous inclusion of Starkiller base coupled with the terrible casting of General Hux.  Also more irratting is idiotic character introduction (Phasma, Space pirates ) that has no bearing on the story.

wp34

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Re: Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2015, 11:41:10 pm »
While Reys quick mastery of her powers is indeed somewhat inexplicable...

This bothered me at first but if you think about it Jedi powers have no consistency even in the original series.  Luke received almost no training from Ben and Yoda and was able to defeat one of the most powerful Jedi/Sith. 

Bottom line for me is the movie was a lot of fun.  It wasn't perfect but neither are the original movies if you think about them too hard.  Plus I got to see Han Solo again and Harrison Ford knocked it out of the park.



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Re: Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2015, 12:13:36 am »
I watched it yesterday lunchtime, and there was about 10 in the theatre.  I liked it for what it was.  It reminded me of Jupiter Ascending.  Nice visuals, good actors and crap script.  Plus lots of hype.  I'm sure I will watch it again before to moves to DVD.  I was expecting more from Lawrence Kasdan.  Wash, rinse and repeat was the fare here.
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Re: Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!
« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2015, 02:57:14 pm »
The way I look at it is that they can learn from mistakes,  and fix the sequel.  Plus we've got Rouge Squadron next year to tide us over.

They screw up the next one and I'm done.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2015, 03:06:22 pm by harveybirdman »

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Re: Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2015, 04:01:29 pm »
I saw TFA for the second time in 24 hours. Once on Friday night and again on Saturday night. Here are some of my thoughts on it.

The two biggest complaints I've read online is Rey getting her powers very easily and the movie/starkiller resembling IV ANH too much.

If you compare Rey to what Luke was in the beginning of IV ANH, Rey is considerably WAY more skilled and powerful. I suspect her midichlorian count to be much higher. Also, Remember that Luke got knocked out by 2 or 3 sand people compared to Rey having the ability to defend and fight off an attack to steal her droid. What really struck me is when Finn witnessed Rey fighting off the attack then Rey turned to Finn after BB-8 alerted her. Finn ran in the complete opposite direction from a great distance away and in 2 seconds Rey is coming down from the sky completely intercepting him resulting in her knocking him to the ground. My conclusion is many times in her early life she was using or tapping into her power without ever realizing she specifically had the power of the force. Especially because her life was so rough and hard.

I also made sure to concentrate when the flashback or Force vision occurred when she first touched the lightsaber. I'm 90% sure I heard the voice of Palpatine. But because the voice only came out of one of the rear theater speakers it was difficult to make it out. Also, when it shows Rey as a little girl it seems to be the Jakku vendor that hands out portions to the scavengers that it taking her by the hand.

As far as the alternative plots go; when they do the switching, does anyone remember what they did in V and VI? Realistically, you are only going to care about the lightsabre fight at that point and not anything else right?. Did you really care about flying bikes and fuzzy creatures or were you anxious as hell for them to get back to Luke and Vader?

If they didn't do some pointless big star than what really could they have done with some flying dudes and some people? Maybe some more lore or story at that point? The reality is nothing is going to top the outcome of the fight so it wouldn't matter what direction they took on that.

If the entire movie was some completely original concept, then it would just be another Sci-Fi firm with the entire fanbase saying "this isn't Star Wars" and being completely let down. I personally loved all the humor and all the nods to the previous movies.

You have to also look at what Disney has done here and compare them to a company like Konami currently is. They will adjust and flock to what they think the market is while at the same time trying to get value on what they have purchased. With this film they have a male role model in Finn and a female role model in Rey. This could potentially get a lot of kids to look into the older movies as well as selling a lot of merchandise that's already out there. Not to mention the potential that movies VIII and VIIII will bring as more information is released and loose ends are tied up with the story.

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Re: Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!
« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2015, 05:05:10 pm »
I got no problem with Rey using the force.  Kylo being injured is enough explanation for me.

And it was clearly a novice battle as it should be.

Again the problem for me is the writing.  I have a feeling this thing was edited to ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- and important stuff was lost to post production.

But you're telling me General Solo, the famous pilot in both Death Star battles isn't even mourned by the resistance? He'll he got a medal in the first film,  with all the pirating of elements from a new hope we can't have a meaningful service at the end?

Also that scene you are crapping on in ROTJ is one of if not the best sequences in Star Wars history. I for one love the pacing and the jumping between battles.  It's not just about Luke and Vader it's a culmination of the entire struggle between the Empire and the Rebellion, good vs evil, the crux of Star Wars.

I'm calling it like it is.  They missed completely in fleshing out the setting  of this movie.  They made established characters act outside of their characters, and yet they took no risk by taking the plot in any direction that it had never been before.

All that said, it's not ruined.  The prequels were ruined at this point the last time around so there is reason for optimism still.  There is still compelling story to tell. 

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Re: Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!
« Reply #32 on: December 20, 2015, 09:04:32 pm »
Mad respect for anything business that can do a quarter billion in three days.  Haha. Haven't seen it, not a Star Wars buff. Just had to throw my two cents in.
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Re: Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!
« Reply #33 on: December 21, 2015, 08:29:09 am »
Again the problem for me is the writing.  I have a feeling this thing was edited to ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- and important stuff was lost to post production.

This, although I have trouble throwing writing (say what you want about JJ: Kasdan was there too) under the bus for editing.

My guess would be that there is a lot of backstory that they couldn't disclose in an efficient manner and folks like us notice the gaps amidst the action. There were quite a few elements that look to be MacGuffins on the screen that I bet were well-plotted on the page. I do think that perhaps they had trouble deciding how to approach Rey as the next Anakin and honestly fumbled the ball because we all hated Anakin in the prequels, so they avoided dealing with it. The whole thing felt like it moved too fast and would have been better handled with an additional hour or two of running time.

The worlds felt lived-in (a big issue for me with the prequels vs originals) and I cared about the characters. I think the casting for Rey and Finn was spot on. Can take or leave Poe (thought he should have been left dead). Fassbender would have been the better choice for Kylo Ren, but Driver did well.

All in all, I enjoyed it and is definitely better than 4 of the previous films. That is no small feat with the most dedicated fandom in history waiting for you to ---fudgesicle--- up.

Anybody who undertakes the task of contributing to that universe has serious intenstinal fortitude and gets a  :applaud: from me.
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Re: Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!
« Reply #34 on: December 21, 2015, 11:24:47 am »
And it was clearly a novice battle as it should be.
Agree 100%.. Kylo Ren is a novice, a wannabe TRYING to be like Vader but knows he isn't good enough.  His tantrums and whiney immature attitude prove that. 

And clearly Rey (or is it Rae?) is skilled in hand to hand fighting.  She grew up in an environment where she had to fight for every scrap.  In fact, it wasn't until half way through the fight that she realized she could use the force to help.  She knew the legends/rumors about the force, which is why when she tried to use it on the stormtrooper it failed at first.  Figuring out how to do something is half about knowing it can be done and half about connecting the dots.  I do wish they had gotten into this a little more, but:
Quote
I have a feeling this thing was edited to ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- and important stuff was lost to post production.
This!!  I think the editing is the problem with this movie.  I think they tried to pare it down and ultimately conceded to the money people who wanted the action, not the story.  Yes, it made a TON of money, but that's because it is a franchise that is well established.  Star Wars sold out to the franchising long ago and that hasn't changed.  However, look at the Lord of the Rings and Hobbit movies.  That PROVES you can have a well developed story line and still make billions.  I think someone along the way made an executive decision to cut some little pieces that were small details that true fans would thrive on, in favor of action scenes that enamor the next generation and make them customers.

Quote
But you're telling me General Solo, the famous pilot in both Death Star battles isn't even mourned by the resistance? He got a medal in the first film,  with all the pirating of elements from a new hope we can't have a meaningful service at the end?
While I agree and wish they had done a mourning scene for him instead of sending Rey after Luke as an ending to the movie, I'm not convinced the Resistance is the Rebellion.  I mean, why did they change their name if they are the same entity?  I kind of see them as a new rebellion, the result of Leia and a few others deciding that the Republic isn't doing a good enough job so they are doing what the Republic can't (or won't) do.  Either way, even though it is made up of a few of the old school Rebellion, Han wasn't a part of it.  His death wasn't in some heroic effort to save the Resistance, it was a personal effort to save his son, the guy who is a part of a group that just killed hundreds of billions of people.  Why make him a hero?  He's just a smuggler that turned his back on the rest of the Galaxy.


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Re: Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!
« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2015, 11:40:54 am »
Quote
He's just a smuggler that turned his back on the rest of the Galaxy.

THIS bothers me, I feel like this is completely out of character for the Han I know.  I assume with Harrison Ford returning for Episode 8 that we'll get some of this backstory and his departure will become believable, but yeah... this was hard for me to deal with.

That coupled with the retarded space pirates scene and the fact that he and Chewie just happened to be there to scoop up the Falcon and it's new crew ruined what was otherwise a pretty nice performance for the character.

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Re: Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!
« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2015, 12:03:04 pm »
Quote
He's just a smuggler that turned his back on the rest of the Galaxy.

THIS bothers me, I feel like this is completely out of character for the Han I know.

This is completely 100% in character.  He reverted to form to deal with his loss.

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Re: Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!
« Reply #37 on: December 21, 2015, 12:29:07 pm »
but he ALWAYS came back...  I think the biggest problem is that we don't know enough about what happened, which speaks to the utter lack of character development in this script.

I agree with a lot of what this guys says



Though I like Kylo Ren better than he does, and hated Carrie Fisher's performance more.

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Re: Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!
« Reply #38 on: December 21, 2015, 12:59:48 pm »
but he ALWAYS came back...  I think the biggest problem is that we don't know enough about what happened, which speaks to the utter lack of character development in this script.

I agree with a lot of what this guys says



Though I like Kylo Ren better than he does, and hated Carrie Fisher's performance more.

He did come back.  Once Han knew what was at stake he was all in.

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Re: Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!
« Reply #39 on: December 21, 2015, 01:53:07 pm »
How many years after the fact though?  And why not try to reach his son prior?  Did he? 

I understand what you are saying. But like many other character changes it felt rushed and unmotivated.