Virgin vs Primary vs Seconday metal

[SavannahLion]

Once in a while, when browing catalogues for metal like copper, aluminum and steel I'll see a small notation denoting the metal as virgin, primary or seconday metal.

After a lot of Googling, I finally figured out what the notations mean but not why.

Outside of science experiments where purity of metal is needed or extreme applications where the composition of the metal is important, how does knowing the source of the metal influence your less than average joe like me? If I want a specific type of aluminum, why do I care where the aluminum content come from? Or whether the stainless steel uses recycled nickel?

I can see this being crucial for something like brass due to the lead in older alloy blends but that's about the best I can figure...

[lilshawn]

I'm more into Slayer, Fear Factory, Lamb of God and Battle Cross... but I'm always wiling to influence others into the ways of metal \m/

 

[SavannahLion]

I'm more into Slayer, Fear Factory, Lamb of God and Battle Cross... but I'm always wiling to influence others into the ways of metal \m/

 

That's lips on the mic right?

[Vigo]

Just a layman guess, but I am betting the types of impurities are different. I am guessing you might have metal that is weakened from certain impurities or has a different melting point or unwanted magnetic properties. I remember watching something on Japanese Katana making in the traditional methods, and where they got their ore from was critical for the smelting process. If the wrong impurites were in the ore, the swords would break and also be harder to shape. I guess if i was making something that I cared about quite a bit, I would prefer a very pure metal.

Also, doesn't some impurities cause the metal to change color a bit differently?

[pbj]

You know, there's an unwritten rule of the internet, and it's that the second metal comes up, someone brings up those damned katanas. 

Even more strange is that they are trotted out as either the best things ever made in human history, or as an example of crude metal working techniques employed to make the best of lousy ore.  (probably about 3:1 on that)

[Vigo]

I actually agree with you, and the thing i watched compared to a dude making a sword under modern methods. The guy made it for about 1/100th the cost of a traditional katana, and did it in one day. It held up slightly better than the traditional katana under stress and impact tests. 

That said, I am sure the traditional katana would be a piece of ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- if not for getting a pretty damn good vein of ore. For making a sword by at home smelting, hammering the metal a million times and burying the thing with clay, it is impressive, but not magic.

[eds1275]

I actually agree with you, and the thing i watched compared to a dude making a sword under modern methods. The guy made it for about 1/100th the cost of a traditional katana, and did it in one day. It held up slightly better than the traditional katana under stress and impact tests. 

Not to mention that you can kill a man with a pipe from the hardware store for 1/1000th the cost of a sword. Unless you need a sword, and by need I mean are not just one of the creepy millions of white people obsessed with asian culture, I don't think it's really something a whole lot of people can relate to. I had a few swords, and I gave it to my friend's kid. His whole family think they are ninjas or something. He was laughing at the quality of the sword, so I pulled it out and promptly smashed a chair with it. The chair broke; it didn't cut, it literally just smashed through it. I told him that was good enough to kill or cripple someone into not fighting back.

[SavannahLion]

Well... outside of knowing a few basic crude things like when buying a sword (should such a need ever arise) to look at the tang. I also seem to have a preference for more practical tools. Lead pipes, axes, crowbars etc. Should the zombie apocalypse happen, I'm well prepared with my antique steel welded wrecking hammer. Smash some heads or doors, pry open a safe, my hammer seems to work well.

But I digress. Thanks for the insight.

[Vigo]

Unless you need a sword, and by need I mean are not just one of the creepy millions of white people obsessed with asian culture, I don't think it's really something a whole lot of people can relate to.

Still trumped by the many millions of Asians obsessed with western culture.

I was once given a few free katanas. And by Katanas I mean cheap display swords. I took one to a chair as well and the chair won. I turned around I sold them to some teenager for $50.

[dkersten]

I was going to buy a top quality katana for a display on the wall of my game room.  I was looking at some fairly expensive pieces and all were razor sharp.  Then I realized I was intending to hang them on the wall of my game room, where we sit around and get drunk and get crazy, and realized having a razor sharp sword within easy reach was probably not the best of ideas.  I never bought one.  Probably one of the smarter decisions I have made in the past few years

[SavannahLion]

I'm always amused by the people who buy actual decorative swords and think they're real weapons.

Remember the dude from QVC wacking away with one of them when it broke and stabbed him in the shoulder? I shouldn't laugh but

[Xiaou2]

Although the Japanese swords seem to get the most attention... it would seem that the Chinese actually showed the Japanese the methods to create them.

 The difference between a Display and Combat sword.. is mostly the metal used.

 A display sword is typically stainless steel,  as it wont rust.  This stainless does not hold an edge well, and will dull easily.

 A Combat sword is made of High Carbon steel... and can be sharpened to a razor blade edge.  Its strength is far greater to that of the Display swords.  You can bash them into something like a steel dumpster... making a good gash into it..  yet the sword wont even have a scratch on it.

 If you look around, I think I recall someone did a video of them smashing a display sword.. destroying it...  and there was pretty much no damage to the combat sword.

 Also,  I remember reading about Chinese sword forging.   It said that if you want the sharpest edge... you would need a kind of metal that was brittle.   This however, wouldnt do well in combat because the sword would break easily combat.   However,  making the sword with more flexible steel, resulted in a poor cutting edge.    As a result, they inserted the brittle metal into the softer metal...  and so the sword become like a pencil.   It could withstand heavy impact without breaking... and its edge could be used to shave the hair off your arm with ease...  and could be resharpened over and over.. again, much like a pencil.   Quite cool.  (Im not sure if this is how all of them were made, or only a certain kind / era)

 I did own a combat sword,  though sadly it got stolen.   It was a Chinese Broadsword.   The thing was almost a CM in thickness on the largest part of the blade.  Quite impressive.    It came in a hand carved wooden scabbard... with a dragon and some characters on it.
I got it unsharpened...  knowing that someone myself... or someone else, would probably end up in the hospital one day.

 I recall bashing it into a few things to test it.   Even dull, it cut like an axe.
Ive seen combat Tai Chi  Jian swords cut through water bottles like butter,  leaving a perfect edge and the remaining part still standing.  As well as the typical bamboo mat test.   Id love to get hold of a good Jian..  as well as a few combat butterfly swords.