Project empty loft space. Newbie try to figure out what I am doing.

[Nephasth]

Do it , build it now, I say.....I dub theee Flubber!!!!!



Don't be this guy.....K, okay, good talk....

What happened to my photo, who stole my photo.........

Apprarently crapmame photos aren't allowed here.

Here you go...

Edit: Strange, the pics weren't working a second ago, now they are. Don't know... Still don't work on my phone...

[vwalbridge]

The only good thing about this arcade is the "Garbage Pail Kids" poster.

[BGoulette]

What, you don't like the contact paper control panel graphics?!

[Nephasth]

What, you don't like the contact paper control panel graphics?!

I'm impressed this guy had the ingenuity to mount the trackball off to the side so you don't smack your hand on the monitor bezel playing Golden Tee. Genius!

[Vigo]

Op, glad you are taking it all in stride. This stage seems to be difficult for most, if anything, for beginners to get their ideas out in a way that is more productive than critical.

So, you got any ideas for a theme? I am going to give you fair warning, the groaning will start again if you do the Mame logo as a marquee and do an art collage of various random video game characters. 

A theme can be as simple as a black cabinet with green highlights, or something themed after a game, movie or something more personal to you. Every good mame cab has a name. I think once you name your cab, it will help you give it an identity.

We will move past this cringe-worthy stage very soon. 

[StammesOpfer]

Op, glad you are taking it all in stride. This stage seems to be difficult for most, if anything, for beginners to get their ideas out in a way that is more productive than critical.

So, you got any ideas for a theme? I am going to give you fair warning, the groaning will start again if you do the Mame logo as a marquee and do an art collage of various random video game characters. 

A theme can be as simple as a black cabinet with green highlights, or something themed after a game, movie or something more personal to you. Every good mame cab has a name. I think once you name your cab, it will help you give it an identity.

We will move past this cringe-worthy stage very soon. 

I hate the "Mame" cabinets with all the random stuff. I am thinking either simple grey with some black, or doing a single game theme. Only problem with the game theme is the games I associate with showcase designs in my head are gun games. I might be wrong but I think if I did a 4p control panel that said Time Crisis or Area51 on it someone might find me and murder me. So probably a simple color theme.

[yotsuya]

Op, glad you are taking it all in stride. This stage seems to be difficult for most, if anything, for beginners to get their ideas out in a way that is more productive than critical.

So, you got any ideas for a theme? I am going to give you fair warning, the groaning will start again if you do the Mame logo as a marquee and do an art collage of various random video game characters. 

A theme can be as simple as a black cabinet with green highlights, or something themed after a game, movie or something more personal to you. Every good mame cab has a name. I think once you name your cab, it will help you give it an identity.

We will move past this cringe-worthy stage very soon. 

I hate the "Mame" cabinets with all the random stuff. I am thinking either simple grey with some black, or doing a single game theme. Only problem with the game theme is the games I associate with showcase designs in my head are gun games. I might be wrong but I think if I did a 4p control panel that said Time Crisis or Area51 on it someone might find me and murder me. So probably a simple color theme.

I give you props for sticking around, bro. Tough love is still love.

You need any help, let me know.

[Malenko]

I'll help you with art.

[Nephasth]

Good theme for a 4 player showcase... Gauntlet Dark Legacy.

Don't build a 4 player showcase.

[StammesOpfer]

I give you props for sticking around, bro. Tough love is still love.

You need any help, let me know.

Thanks I'll take it how I can get it. 

I'll help you with art.

I may take you up on that. I think I need to figure out what it is going on first. I am a little afraid to open sketchup right now.

Good theme for a 4 player showcase... Gauntlet Dark Legacy.

Don't build a 4 player showcase.

Thanks for the suggestion and the advice. I think you mean "DON'T BUILD A 4 PLAYER PROJECT" though.

[StammesOpfer]

Hummm... It would appear that fighters were fairly common on showcase machines. Just not in the arcades I went to as a kid. That makes artwork choice a lot easier.

[vwalbridge]

I give you props for sticking around, bro. Tough love is still love.

You need any help, let me know.

This right here is what BYOAC is all about.

OP,

I guarantee you if you stick with it, and make it to the end with a cab this community participates in...you are going to find it one of the most rewarding feelings in the world.

And in the long run, you can just sit back, relax, and watch your build thread get linked time and time again to tell a "great story".   

[JDFan]

But the friends and I love some Super Smash Bros. That is the big driver for 4p full controls. It plays pretty well on arcade controls. I don't want p3 and p4 using console controllers.

I hate the "Mame" cabinets with all the random stuff. I am thinking either simple grey with some black, or doing a single game theme. Only problem with the game theme is the games I associate with showcase designs in my head are gun games. I might be wrong but I think if I did a 4p control panel that said Time Crisis or Area51 on it someone might find me and murder me. So probably a simple color theme.

Since the main reason for making it a 4 player build with the button setup you are wanting is for 1 specific game and assuming that is the game that the most gameplay is going to be -- would seem to make sense to theme the artwork toward that game  (another advantage to that Theme would be it might stop a few visitors from asking Why so many buttons for player 3 and 4 when almost no games use them !! )

[StammesOpfer]

But the friends and I love some Super Smash Bros. That is the big driver for 4p full controls. It plays pretty well on arcade controls. I don't want p3 and p4 using console controllers.

I hate the "Mame" cabinets with all the random stuff. I am thinking either simple grey with some black, or doing a single game theme. Only problem with the game theme is the games I associate with showcase designs in my head are gun games. I might be wrong but I think if I did a 4p control panel that said Time Crisis or Area51 on it someone might find me and murder me. So probably a simple color theme.

Since the main reason for making it a 4 player build with the button setup you are wanting is for 1 specific game and assuming that is the game that the most gameplay is going to be -- would seem to make sense to theme the artwork toward that game 

Logic is hard to argue with. Only concern I would have is. Since that is all of Nintendo's characters would it start to fall into the confused category of the Mame machine with characters from every game.

[Typefighter01]

I am a little afraid to open sketchup right now.

You still have a sense of humour at least

One thing you will find on here is the guys really respect someone that can take a drubbing and step back, re-evaluate and then keep at it. Everyone is here to help...just take a deep breath and enjoy yourself, that is the whole point of building a cab anyway, isn't it?

[Vigo]

Logic is hard to argue with. Only concern I would have is. Since that is all of Nintendo's characters would it start to fall into the confused category of the Mame machine with characters from every game.

If you go a full on smash bros theme, it should be alright as long as you are selective on your art and pick only smash bros related artwork as a base. There is a mario stikers cab in the pipeline right now that looks great.

[JDFan]

Logic is hard to argue with. Only concern I would have is. Since that is all of Nintendo's characters would it start to fall into the confused category of the Mame machine with characters from every game.

If you go a full on smash bros theme, it should be alright as long as you are selective on your art and pick only smash bros related artwork as a base. There is a mario stikers cab in the pipeline right now that looks great.

Exactly -- ( http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,145989.msg1520661.html#msg1520661 )

[emphatic]

Kudos for sticking around! 

[rablack97]

Kudos for sticking around! 

+1

[mgb]

'scuse me. Legend coming through. Step aside please. The legend has arrived. 

You -




Us -



You have great ambition, but this is too much for a first project. Make a 2 player cab. If you really want to bring in 4 players, toss in a couple bluetooth gamepads. Buy and install lightguns only after your cab is done. If you want a cab that will be used, focus on asthetics and good basic function more than features.

But don't forget, the double decker couch ended up serving some purpose in the end, so was it really a bad idea? 

To the OP,
  your actually doing great. There have been some before who would come around with an idea and would ask for input but then would get all ticked and leave.
I know some of these guys can be harsh and come off a bit like internet trolls but they all mean well.

It's easy to start out with some unrealistic plan and then widdle it down to something that really works for you.

My original plans turned out to not be ideal for me and after a while it got worked down to something I'm really happy with.

[StammesOpfer]

I think I like this style. I think I can handle the skill level required for this one and do it well. Not this drawing specifically (treat it like a bar napkin) but the basic lines. So basically a Dynamo Showcase but built for an LCD instead of a CRT.

[StammesOpfer]

So should I just stop? I don't even know if I am making crap or not. Color will end up being much brighter. Just asking for opinion on design (since I have a history) before I start graphics and getting wood.

Also it may be wide but the CP mockup seems comfortable for 4 people. Not sure how I feel about my choice for button colors but I'll wait until I have artwork to see how it looks.

[harveybirdman]

It's not what I would make, but at least we look like an arcade machine now instead of a ridiculous peice of furniture.

CP is too wide and the aesthetic compromise of more than four buttons for players 3 and 4 isn't worth it for one game but you seem determined to maintain support for it.

If you keep it that way fine but you might consider bending players 3 and 4 so that the controls aren't a straight line so you can loose some of the CP width.

[mgb]

If you keep it that way fine but you might consider bending players 3 and 4 so that the controls aren't a straight line so you can loose some of the CP width.

I agree with that.
You'd really do you self a solid by searching around online and looking at other 4 player control panels in order to really hone your design.

No one is telling you to give up, just trying to help you build a design that you can really appreciate and enjoy.

[yotsuya]

Good luck with your project!

[Vigo]

This is honestly getting better and better every revision. Don't stop, keep it up. I would honestly recommend if you are making a cabinet this large, make it a two-piece, so moving it isn't pain in the butt.

[Vidiot]

I'm subbing to see how this turns out. Some suggestions I might want to make is consider angling the control panel just a bit toward the players. Seems like it would be uncomfortable playing on a completely flat CP. Not too much though.

Also see if you can procure some cardboard. Maybe a local appliance shop would have some large boxes to give you. You could cut out and build a mock-up too see how things look and feel and size up before you actually cut on wood. Could save you a lot of time and money later. I've found this to be a great way to refine a design so it will end up being exactly what you want.

If you keep it that way fine but you might consider bending players 3 and 4 so that the controls aren't a straight line so you can loose some of the CP width.

I agree with that.
You'd really do you self a solid by searching around online and looking at other 4 player control panels in order to really hone your design.

No one is telling you to give up, just trying to help you build a design that you can really appreciate and enjoy.

I agree with this also.

Definitely don't give up. 

[Jefferson]

Hey OP.  I'd love to see you finish this.  My first cab was a 4P (against the advice of some of the regulars around here!) but I eventually won them over.  Check it out in my sig.  They are as opinionated as they are helpful.

I like the showcase cab idea, esp in an open loft.  Do a lotta reading and looking at pics.  Anywhere you can simplify design/art choices will make your project look more confident.

If I were you, I would take the buttons you mostly already have and color coordinate by player (P1 red, P2 blue, etc.)... for the start buttons I like using colored rings to further indicate the player.
That's a lotta buttons for P3 and 4 BUT I'm glad not to also see a trackball, spinner and torn joystick hanging out.  Do you!

[StammesOpfer]

Ok you guys are right (of course). Put a 5 deg angle on the panel which is 1.6in of rise front to back. I was really avoiding doing this (cause I'm stubborn I guess) but it certainly looks better, and I propped up the back side of my test panel and it was more comfortable. So this is me saying thanks guys.

That's a lotta buttons for P3 and 4 BUT I'm glad not to also see a trackball, spinner and torn joystick hanging out.  Do you!

There will be a trackball (big hole in the middle). But that is it. Well and one admin button (pause and hold to exit) then a keyed switch to shift P3 buttons to perform other functions.

For the control panel. To those that are saying change it. I know I could save 6-8 inches in width by doing a more sculpted/angled design all the normal stuff. If I am squeezing it then really I would want to lose 12 inches which I don't think is going to happen and be playable. To tell the truth I don't have a problem with the size as far as the space it takes up or anything like that. So with that said are you guys recommending panel change just to shrink it for the sole reason to be smaller, or is it for playability/aesthetic reasons?

[BGoulette]

So with that said are you guys recommending panel change just to shrink it for the sole reason to be smaller, or is it for playability/aesthetic reasons?

The way I look at it, let's say you had a nice wide room with four chairs all lined up in a row to watch a TV show. The people in seats "3" and "4" are going to end up sitting at an angle or getting cricks in their necks. That's why I'd angle a 4-player CP, if I were building one: to keep players 3 and 4 at a more natural angle to the screen.

[harveybirdman]

Dude... they made them like that for a reason.  Mock it up have four dudes stand where they will be playing on your panel.....

I know it's tough, but let's just take some time and LOOK at some actual four player panels mmmkay?

[StammesOpfer]

So there have been some recommendations the keep all the Joysticks lined up for games that use 2 joysticks. Or I go back to a darker time and go for something like my first post just with the joysticks turned in the correct direction.

Also most commercial 4p panels seem to have the outside player turned 90deg which I get for a small screen down low where you need to be as close as possible but it seems people do this even for pedestals and showcases. Doesn't this make it really awkward to play on a screen that is higher and further away?

Is there a rule of thumb for control angle? For the top one I measured the angle to center of the screen on P1 and p3 then subtracted p1 from p3 and it was about 20deg so that is what I did for rotation. The lower one is just 45deg.

[reptileink]

I wouldn't even begin to describe myself as a legend around here, but I know design, and this design has fail written all over it.

Why are you SO against making the controls the same as almost EVERY 4 player CP out there??

Let me ask you this, do your "boys" come over every night to play? How many times a month are you going to have 4 players at your house? Make an arcade, use 3-4 buttons for the arcade games you guys want to play, and stick to controllers for Smash Bros.

You are saying you aren't going for a "trophy" build, so why are you wasting time building anything at all if you think it's going to be a crap build? Wouldn't you rather invest the time/money into something that you will be proud of, and not just "something I threw together"

LISTEN to what these guys are telling you. Build a 2 player cabinet to learn from, and THEN tackle the large project. Heck, you do a good enough job on the 2 player, you can sell it and use those funds to pay for your bigger showcase build.

I read every post in this thread, and the main thing I see is you asking for advice, and then just deciding to do it your own way instead.  Get some cardboard, mock it up, and ask your buddies if they like rubbing elbows and standing on top of each other while playing games at your house. What's going to happen is they are not going to like the playfield, and stop coming over anyway. Why play a game all crowded together when they can sit 4-5 feet away from each other on a comfortable couch and play it on a console? You will wind up standing at a huge control panel alone on Friday nights. Now you want to throw a trackball in the middle of it all??? 

Think about it.

[vwalbridge]

Is there a rule of thumb for control angle? For the top one I measured the angle to center of the screen on P1 and p3 then subtracted p1 from p3 and it was about 20deg so that is what I did for rotation. The lower one is just 45deg.

I've never built a 4P cab and probably never will so you can tell me to pound sand. But THIS ^ tells me that you are WAY over-thinking your control panel.

There is over 30 years of arcade game designers that have paved the road for you already. All you have to do is copy the most popular 4P layout today.

[StammesOpfer]

Is there a rule of thumb for control angle? For the top one I measured the angle to center of the screen on P1 and p3 then subtracted p1 from p3 and it was about 20deg so that is what I did for rotation. The lower one is just 45deg.

I've never built a 4P cab and probably never will so you can tell me to pound sand. But THIS ^ tells me that you are WAY over-thinking your control panel.

There is over 30 years of arcade game designers that have paved the road for you already. All you have to do is copy the most popular 4P layout today.

Perhaps you are right. But I also like to understand why things are done the way they are. "Because that is just how it's done" is about the worst thing I like to hear.

[dmckean]

These arcade companies have spent thousands of dollars and hours on internal and focus group testing. Plus there's hundreds of guys on here that have built their projects and have first hand knowledge, learn from it. Always stand on the shoulders of giants, there's no reason to reinvent the wheel.

[Nephasth]

"Because that is just how it's done" is about the worst thing I like to hear.

That's funny, the worst thing I like to hear is someone ask for advice and ignore it...

[mgb]

Is there a rule of thumb for control angle? For the top one I measured the angle to center of the screen on P1 and p3 then subtracted p1 from p3 and it was about 20deg so that is what I did for rotation. The lower one is just 45deg.

I've never built a 4P cab and probably never will so you can tell me to pound sand. But THIS ^ tells me that you are WAY over-thinking your control panel.

There is over 30 years of arcade game designers that have paved the road for you already. All you have to do is copy the most popular 4P layout today.

Perhaps you are right. But I also like to understand why things are done the way they are. "Because that is just how it's done" is about the worst thing I like to hear.

No one has given the answer of "that's just how it's done"
They're done that way because it works and there is a certain design aspect so they don't look like
A big turd with sticks

I understand you're gonna do what you want and I wish you luck but don't ask for advice if you don't wanna hear it.

[StammesOpfer]

Is there a rule of thumb for control angle? For the top one I measured the angle to center of the screen on P1 and p3 then subtracted p1 from p3 and it was about 20deg so that is what I did for rotation. The lower one is just 45deg.

I've never built a 4P cab and probably never will so you can tell me to pound sand. But THIS ^ tells me that you are WAY over-thinking your control panel.

There is over 30 years of arcade game designers that have paved the road for you already. All you have to do is copy the most popular 4P layout today.

Perhaps you are right. But I also like to understand why things are done the way they are. "Because that is just how it's done" is about the worst thing I like to hear.

No one has given the answer of "that's just how it's done"
They're done that way because it works and there is a certain design aspect so they don't look like
A big turd with sticks

I understand you're gonna do what you want and I wish you luck but don't ask for advice if you don't wanna hear it.

No but just "copy someone else's" is just about the same thing. I want to make the right choices for the right reasons. Aparently when I ask why something is done like it is, or if there is a reason behind it, then I am being an ass that just won't listen.

Maybe I am asking for science and engineering when it is an art.

[Vigo]

I don't see it as science or art, I see it as just experience talking. I don't know if you are referring to the 6 buttons on p3 and p4 simply for smash bros as the issue you wanted clarification on, but it all just boils down to "1 game isn't worth it" on this big of a machine.

I know you said -

The games that matter for me are mostly shooters and fighters (easy 2p stuff). But the friends and I love some Super Smash Bros. That is the big driver for 4p full controls. It plays pretty well on arcade controls. I don't want p3 and p4 using console controllers.

But we have all been there. we all had that holy grail game we really wanted to play on our cabs and consistently, people here have found that it isn't ever worth to design an entire cab around 1 game unless you want it as a dedicated machine. This is no different than the awkwardly placed tron stick. It collects dust and makes the controls that much harder to work with.

Also, keep in mind that an arcade machine is a big "wow factor" device, and playing smash bros on a large tv is fully possible for anyone who has a  nintendo and a tv. You won't be creating that different of an experience from the console other than everyone is stacked in a row.

I also have to wonder if the controls are really that good on a street fighter control scheme. There are really only two attack buttons in SB, and I see no mental way to logically map the button placement for things like shield, jump, grab and taunt, and i wouldn't know how to parse out the c-stick. If I remember right, it is used for smash attacks, rolling and aerial attacks and they differ depending on which direction you press the stick. I don't even know how it would be accomplished unless you plan on chopping that functionality out to play the game with just the buttons.

If you are looking for an engineering reason why 6 buttons isn't a good idea on player 3 and player 4, think about how P3 will need to be squared up to the control area to use 6 buttons with proper wrist space. Now with only 3 buttons, the player can stand further off the to side, because the buttons will be comfortably usable by just stretching out the arm a little more and swinging the body out. This give a lot more shoulder space for player 1 and 2, and everyone is more comfortable without needing a control panel that you could play shuffleboard on.


Just some food for thought, feel free to take it or leave it. I think basing your controls around 1 game that all your friends probably already own might be mistake, but it is ultimately your machine.