Project empty loft space. Newbie try to figure out what I am doing.

[StammesOpfer]

Ok so I have a 42" TV to donate to this already. Started designing this and it turns out I want to do something similar to ChanceKJ's "Flynn's Arcade" (Project: Overambitious). I've done some Sketchup work (need to adjust it a little) for the cabinet suck at design and that kind of cab isn't gonna work. I think I have the Control Panel how I want Nope. Looking for some input at this point.

Do I really need to angle the whole control panel? I an leaning towards keeping it flat.
How Much wrist space is too much? Right now it is about 7" for P1 and P2.
I know people say don't angle the Joystick but I am pretty set on this.
I know that P3 and P4 only need 4 buttons but this will be used for console games too (plus I like it to match).
What about screen angle? Does it need to be tilted back? How much? I am a little concerned because this is a big screen and I kind of want to set it as far back as possible so less angle on the screen means I can set it deeper in the cabinet.

Parts List:
6-7yr old Toshiba 42" 1080p LCD
Core 2 Quad Q6600, 8gb RAM, GTX750 (way overkill I know)
2x Ulitmarc U360 Joysticks (P1 and P2)
2x J-Stiks (P3 and P4)
U-TRAK trackball
2x AimTrak Light Guns

Panel will be 48" wide aprox 18" deep. Maybe

Any thoughts are welcome.

[StammesOpfer]

Has anyone done a 3 piece Marquee before? Basically standard printed marquee on either side with a LCD screen in the middle. The price on the ultrawide LCDs that I have seen people use is a little too much for me. Especially with how wide mine is. A 15.6" LCD come in right around 9" tall seems perfect for a marquee.

[yotsuya]

FFS...  good luck with this. You're gonna need it

[vwalbridge]

Wowzers. This is ambitious. However, you seem like you know what you want. I hope this isn't your first build. 

Has anyone done a 3 piece Marquee before? Basically standard printed marquee on either side with a LCD screen in the middle.

Never seen anything like this before but I can't imagine that looking very good. If I've learned one this on this forum: don't build a cabinet that looks like it can't make up its own mind.

[StammesOpfer]

Ok so maybe I'm naive but why so difficult? The wood work? Or the Controls? Or somethings else?

The woodwork is essentially the same as a standard from scratch build. Just wider. I have the tools to do that. (multiples saws, drill press, routers, etc)

I don't think I am doing anything crazy control wise. Other than a full 4p setup. Actually I feel like it is less crowded than most panels with my goals (not a bunch of admin buttons no coin on the top panel).

Something else?

I guess I don't know what I don't know.

As for a cabinet that can't make up its mind. Fair enough. I have ideas pop into my head, sometimes I go with them, sometimes I let them sit and decide against it. a 3 piece marquee with LCD would certainly look odd in many places. It MIGHT... MAYBE work for a more generic machine... or it may not.

[Nephasth]

42" LCD in a cab...
4 players with 7 buttons each...
Angled joysticks right out of the gate...

This is clearly a joke... If not, do your homework son.     

[StammesOpfer]

42" LCD in a cab...
4 players with 7 buttons each...
Angled joysticks right out of the gate...

This is clearly a joke... If not, do your homework son.   

I know people say don't angle the Joystick but I am pretty set on this.
I know that P3 and P4 only need 4 buttons but this will be used for console games too (plus I like it to match).

Joystick angle feels more natural to me. If I change my mind (which some swear I will, and other say they like it angled too) then I will change it.

42" true it is large. I get that. With it being a 16:9(widescreen) that is equivalent to a 34" 4:3 aspect ratio TV and plenty of people use 27"-32" CRT's so is it that crazy? (no really, is it?) Oh and it is what I have.

[yotsuya]

42" LCD in a cab...
4 players with 7 buttons each...
Angled joysticks right out of the gate...

This is clearly a joke... If not, do your homework son.   

I was able to rep this post in Tapatalk. Sweet.

And it's no joke. 2015 has turned into the year of superwide cabinets.

[Nephasth]

It's your ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- show, run it into the ground however you want...

[sc23]

Good luck with your build. Just thought id mention that I just used a smart power strip, and that turned on the TV when PC powered up without the need for the remote hack. That was one thing with using a TV that I thought was going to be a pain, but turns out the TV turns on when you toggle power. Plug it in, flick switch and see if it turns on and remembers channel.

[StammesOpfer]

Ok so for everyone that hates that it is a 4 player, has angled joysticks, and too large of a screen. Pretend it's a 2 player (no angled joysticks) and has a 27 inch screen.

I still have the same questions.
Do I really need to tilt the whole control panel? I an leaning towards keeping it flat.
How much wrist space is too much? Right now it is about 7" for P1 and P2.
What about screen angle? Does it need/have to be tilted back? How much? Or is it more of an eyeball it kinda thing once you get it in there?

For anyone who cares. Here is my quick render (dimensionally accurate) just for me to get an idea of things. Decided putting the control panel curve in 3d wasn't worth the time to figure it out.

[StammesOpfer]

Good luck with your build. Just thought id mention that I just used a smart power strip, and that turned on the TV when PC powered up without the need for the remote hack. That was one thing with using a TV that I thought was going to be a pain, but turns out the TV turns on when you toggle power. Plug it in, flick switch and see if it turns on and remembers channel.

Thanks I had already checked my TV. It does not automatically turn on with power. It also will just keep power cycling if I hold the power button down. I didn't want to break it open to hard wire a button to the TV itself. So a strategically placed remote control PCB with the correct leads solder to a momentary switch does the trick (already soldered and tested). I do plan on using one of those green/smart power strips for speakers and probably lighting.

[Nephasth]

Apologies. I have mis-judged. This design is beautiful!



You clearly know what you're doing.

[pbj]

Do not mount the damn monitor to the control panel.  Your players are going to be blinded at that distance.  Pedestal, man.  Learn it, live it, love it.

[JDFan]

Do not mount the damn monitor to the control panel.  Your players are going to be blinded at that distance.  Pedestal, man.  Learn it, live it, love it.

+1 -- a 42" TV with a slim cabinet is gonna look terrible - figure if the cab is 18" deep the screen will be about 12" from your face - try standing 12" away from your TV set and you'll see how hard it is to see the entire screen - Mount the screen on the wall and build a pedestal so you can adjust the distance - and then you can also build the CP layout so that all 4 players are in line and not angled which then also allows for 2 player Robotron, Smash TV, etc. games which use dual joysticks !! 

[harveybirdman]

Apologies. I have mis-judged. This design is beautiful!

You clearly know what you're doing.

god I've missed you...


OP please don't be discouraged it's awesome that you are undertaking a build, but you are definitely making some pretty egregious snafus.  A TV that size is much better in a pedestal setup like PBJ says, and what games do you plan on playing with three of your buddies that require 6 buttons per player?

If you have some idea in your head of one machine that plays every console and every arcade game get it out now!  I wish someone would have told me this before I spent weeks downloading PSX ISO's that I never play...

 

[yotsuya]

Apologies. I have mis-judged. This design is beautiful!

You clearly know what you're doing.

god I've missed you...

* yotsuya high-fives Harveybirdman

[StammesOpfer]

Apologies. I have mis-judged. This design is beautiful!

LOL. Some babies are ugly.

Do not mount the damn monitor to the control panel.  Your players are going to be blinded at that distance.  Pedestal, man.  Learn it, live it, love it.

I kind of hate the way pedestals look (though obviously I have created an ugly baby). I think I feel that way because I see it like a table and TV (two separate devices instead of one). I guess if I could do a well integrated showcase that might be ok. :/

+1 -- a 42" TV with a slim cabinet is gonna look terrible - figure if the cab is 18" deep the screen will be about 12" from your face - try standing 12" away from your TV set and you'll see how hard it is to see the entire screen - Mount the screen on the wall and build a pedestal so you can adjust the distance - and then you can also build the CP layout so that all 4 players are in line and not angled which then also allows for 2 player Robotron, Smash TV, etc. games which use dual joysticks !! 

It would be like 24-30" from the screen but ok I see your guys point... also I was looking to avoid having an even wider control panel but maybe that is the answer.

Also it seems most stuff I have found focuses on upright cabinets. Got any good resources/ideas for pedestals/showcase?

[harveybirdman]

Here’s what To do

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=117320.0
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=134038.0
http://newwiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?title=Beat%27em_up-X

Here’s what NOT to do

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,135635.0.html

[Nephasth]

Also it seems most stuff I have found focuses on upright cabinets. Got any good resources/ideas for pedestals/showcase?

Might try BYOAC.

[StammesOpfer]

Damn and then I see http://www.mameroom.com/webstore.asp?productid=LCDSHOWCASESYSTEM&category=158 and I still kinda hate it. :/
That control panel even looks familiar. Though I don't hate that part.

I hate you guys a little bit right now but appreciate you calling me an idiot. I have a feeling I am going to end up spending more money than I thought to do this "decently" (I'm not going to say "right" just yet).

[StammesOpfer]

Ok so I took a few minutes and... What is the biggest that is acceptable for a widescreen in a 2 player cabinet? See here comes more money. I was thinking two, 2 player cabinets, side by side. Then use a KVM switch on one of them that makes it a mirrored screen for 4 players. Am I getting too crazy again?

[Nephasth]

You need to take a few months to figure out exactly what you want to do before you buy anything. Build yourself a USB controller in the mean time so you can figure out what games you like.

[yotsuya]

You need to take a few months to figure out exactly what you want to do before you buy anything. Build yourself a USB controller in the mean time so you can figure out what games you like.

I agree. Slow down, take a deep breath, and figure out exactly what it is you want, and why you want it that way.

[LiquidFire]

I learned more by simply setting up the control electronics in a rude single player panel design than I ever did thinking about it.

Made me re-think the whole project.

Everything always costs more than you want to think.

And you have to live with this animal, hopefully for years, so you have to make it family, space and moving friendly - check all that apply.

A smaller, faster to execute, less ambitious project will put you light years ahead for the second one.

[rablack97]

Okay, While i don't agree with the route your going.

Your vision is possible, this one has a 55" LCD in it, turned out OK, but it is a monster.

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxMjAw/$T2eC16dHJFoE9nh6piqmBQsY1!!Gi!~~60_57.JPG?rt=nc

http://www.ebay.com/itm/330832696118

My advice here is use the forum first, Neph has a point, you gotta do your homework.  There are tons of threads in this forum where folks started ambitious and now they have a half built eye sore sitting in their garage.  Even worse, they completed it, only to have it look like ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.

Keep these points in mind.

• You have to move it
• You have to fit it through a door
• You don't want to be blind, after a week of playing your eyes will force you to sell it, too damn close and too damn bright.

Don't let the ego have you spending money on a dead end project, listen to the elders of the forum, we all want to see great builds.  However, the mob will drop the hammer hard on you if they see you headed for a disaster.

Don't build around a TV that's meant to show UFC fight in a bar, you'll beat your chest for a good week, show your friends, and then its oh ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, that a big SOB, now what do i do with it?

Good Luck and happy building.

[Nephasth]

Don't encourage nonsense... 

[rablack97]

Don't encourage nonsense... 

[mgb]

I just kinda breezed through this thread so far but from what I see you have some design faults here and others are trying to discourage you from making mistakes.

It seems like you're taking it well so that's cool.
Most here don't mean to offend most of the time.

Basically to answer your questions (you did ask for input)
Don't use a 42" screen that the players will be standing right in front of. It will look like crap.
Don't leave your cp completely flat.
Don't mount your monitor without any angle.
Don't angle player 3 & 4 joysticks.
For arcade games, you don't need any more than 4 buttons for player 3 & 4.
I'm assuming you want it for consoles.

Also keep in mind that many here have gone down that road of playing console games on a stand up arcade and many games are much better played sitting on the couch with controllers.

It's your project. Do what you want but we're just trying to help so that you don't end up with a big ugly machine that plays 6,456,957 games tgat you never want to touch.

What exactly are the games that are important to you? What must you have and what can you live without?

[StammesOpfer]

I just kinda breezed through this thread so far but from what I see you have some design faults here and others are trying to discourage you from making mistakes.

It seems like you're taking it well so that's cool.
Most here don't mean to offend most of the time.

Basically to answer your questions (you did ask for input)
Don't use a 42" screen that the players will be standing right in front of. It will look like crap.
Don't leave your cp completely flat.
Don't mount your monitor without any angle.
Don't angle player 3 & 4 joysticks.
For arcade games, you don't need any more than 4 buttons for player 3 & 4.
I'm assuming you want it for consoles.

Also keep in mind that many here have gone down that road of playing console games on a stand up arcade and many games are much better played sitting on the couch with controllers.

It's your project. Do what you want but we're just trying to help so that you don't end up with a big ugly machine that plays 6,456,957 games tgat you never want to touch.

What exactly are the games that are important to you? What must you have and what can you live without?

Thanks for the detailed response. I am trying to listen.

The games that matter for me are mostly shooters and fighters (easy 2p stuff). But the friends and I love some Super Smash Bros. That is the big driver for 4p full controls. It plays pretty well on arcade controls. I don't want p3 and p4 using console controllers.

[rablack97]

So nix all those buttons for 3 and 4 player you only need 4, your not gonna play SF or or MK type games sidways.

[StammesOpfer]

So nix all those buttons for 3 and 4 player you only need 4, your not gonna play SF or or MK type games sidways.

Control panel will be not be curved anymore (and joystick won't be angled) and you missed the part about 4p Super Smash Bros (console) needs the buttons.

[rablack97]

Since your not curving the controls, your gonna have 4 people standing shoulder to shoulder, how is that gonna work?

Are you building this where its gonna be permanantly, cause its not going through a door.

So the full controls are for 1 game only for p3 p4?  Alrighty then.....

[StammesOpfer]

Remove the control panel before moving. I would have to do that anyway even with the curved one it was 48" wide I don't have double doors everywhere. Yes one game is worth adding 3 extra buttons to p3 and p4 cause it is only an extra 3 buttons over the standard 4 buttons.

[dmckean]

So nix all those buttons for 3 and 4 player you only need 4, your not gonna play SF or or MK type games sidways.

Control panel will be not be curved anymore (and joystick won't be angled) and you missed the part about 4p Super Smash Bros (console) needs the buttons.

Because there's nothing better than being shoulder to shoulder playing 4 player Smah Bros with makeshift controls while standing 2 feet away from a 42" TV.

[Malenko]

Here’s what NOT to do

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,135635.0.html

Im always afraid the link will point to one of my projects :/

[yotsuya]

Here’s what NOT to do

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,135635.0.html

Im always afraid the link will point to one of my projects :/

Naw, you make quality stuff, bro.

[rablack97]

Man, really rethink this.

Look at your 1p and 2p spacing vs. 3p - 1p and 4p - 2p

Once you make that CP straight, there wont be any room, and look at how close the buttons will be to the other players sticks.

There is a reason 3p and 4p and are on the curves to allow for space.



Here is a Dream Authentics Pedestal with your suggested layout.  So your right i guess people do have full control for all 4 players, but look at the spacing.





This guy builds the monsters your attempting, might just buy one of these and call it a day. I saw one for 40" 42" and 50", but really look at how big that screen is and how close your gonna be to it.  That will get old really fast.  The viewing angle for the 3-4 players will probably suck as well on such a big screen, you can see this in the photo, as you look from left to right.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Player-42-Home-Video-Arcade-Game-MAME-TM-Can-Play-1-000s-Of-Games-and-MORE-/271493762775



Also read this post, and see how far this guy got with it

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=129400.0

[StammesOpfer]

Man, really rethink this.

Look at your 1p and 2p spacing vs. 3p - 1p and 4p - 2p

Once you make that CP straight, there wont be any room, and look at how close the buttons will be to the other players sticks.

There is a reason 3p and 4p and are on the curves to allow for space.

I'm mocking up a couple different things to see how it looks. Other people seem to disagree with you (and my original design).

This guy builds the monsters your attempting, might just by one of these and call it a day. I saw one for 40" 42" and 50", but really look at big that screen is an how close your gonna be to it.  That will get old really fast. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Player-42-Home-Video-Arcade-Game-MAME-TM-Can-Play-1-000s-Of-Games-and-MORE-/271493762775

Also read this post, and see how far this guy got with it

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=129400.0

So pay $3,700 and oh look this guy posted twice. (sorry I am starting to feel like some other people are rubbing off on me).

[rablack97]

If you go straight, the thing will look like an airplane, the main disagreement was that you angled your jstiks, but your going for full button layout.

If this is your first build, guarantee you will come very close to that $3700.00 keep up a log of what you spend in tools, parts etc.

Im just saying think it through totally, and no apologies needed its an open forum.  Start worrying when nobody gives you any advice at all, and just lets you create a hot mess, only to post it to the CRAPMAME site...

[StammesOpfer]

Ok so I actually put the TV at the right height and distance (40" from screen to front edge of panel) and played a little. I think it will be ok.

This clearly doesn't really look like an arcade piece, but I think function is there and upside the panel could be mobile and it just looks like furniture.

[Nephasth]

Go back and look at all the UCA nominees from the past couple years. You need some serious inspiration, your latest design is garbage.

[vwalbridge]

There is nowhere to put your feet in this design:

[StammesOpfer]

There is nowhere to put your feet in this design:

Now that is helpful. I totally missed that. It would make it awkward.

[Green Giant]

Here’s what NOT to do

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,135635.0.html

That's not very fair, by page 6 he learned the error of his ways:

Without this forum stepping in, this build would have had some major mistakes.  The ANGLED joysticks would have been the worst possible mistake.  When playing 4 player games, Up on the joystick needs to be UP on the screen.   When you actual play a game and are standing at the pedestal at player 3 or 4, it's clear why angled would suck.

Also, the button placement is perfect.  Thanks again guys for helping out with this.   

[harveybirdman]

Yeah he accepted that criticism but it's not like that was the only thing wrong with that monstrosity.

[yotsuya]

Here’s what NOT to do

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,135635.0.html

That's not very fair, by page 6 he learned the error of his ways:

Without this forum stepping in, this build would have had some major mistakes.  The ANGLED joysticks would have been the worst possible mistake.  When playing 4 player games, Up on the joystick needs to be UP on the screen.   When you actual play a game and are standing at the pedestal at player 3 or 4, it's clear why angled would suck.

Also, the button placement is perfect.  Thanks again guys for helping out with this.   

Kaneda has NEVER learned the error of his ways. He does that where he sounds all contrite and sorry, then a few posts later he's raging against the machine again. ---fudgesicle--- that dude.

[yotsuya]

Ok so I actually put the TV at the right height and distance (40" from screen to front edge of panel) and played a little. I think it will be ok.

This clearly doesn't really look like an arcade piece, but I think function is there and upside the panel could be mobile and it just looks like furniture.

Wow, this actually makes Tully's FileCabinetCade look genius by comparison.

If you want something that functions like an arcade with that size screen, take James' advice and go with a pedestal. You'll be happier and it'll be more creative. Otherwise, just install CoinOps on an Xbox and sit in front of that screen.

[dmckean]

Holy. ---smurfing---. Cow.   

[rablack97]

Dude,

Cmon Mannnn.....

the left player has no room

now you have everyone looking  straight, try playing a game with your body straight and head looking to the right......

I give up, your animate about building this thing.....so just build it.

Im with Neph on this one, that is terrible....

What is the box for........you say you hate pedestals but your building one with a hoodie.....

[yotsuya]

Dude,

Cmon Mannnn.....

the left player has no room

now you have everyone looking  straight, try playing a game with your body straight and head looking to the right......

I give up, your animate about building this thing.....so just build it.

Im with Neph on this one, that is terrible....

What is the box for........you say you hate pedestals but your building one with a hoodie.....

[Green Giant]

Random question, are you in the Houston area?

If so friday night you can play many many old school games and see why everyone is suggesting what they are suggesting.

[yotsuya]

Random question, are you in the Houston area?

If so friday night you can play many many old school games and see why everyone is suggesting what they are suggesting.

Excellent suggestion, Green Giant.

[pixelObsession]

Have you thought about turning the tv 90 degrees on its side?

If the viewing angle is good, you could split the screen to be both the active marquee you wanted originally and the main - less wide - screen by letting the screen poke up through the speaker panel.

It's been done somewhere on these forums...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pauly]

Don't completely omit the pedestal design as crap. If I had an empty loft...



This would look DOPE.

Also this Bad mother right here...


People here are attacking you with brute force advice. They have been through a lot and seen a lot. Heck, I am in the middle of my first build and some posters in this thread are giving really sound advice. They're trying to prevent you from making a mistake - promise.

Good luck with whatever you choose. (Don't do the shelf thing though)

[mgb]

First off, remember these tips are not to pick on you but instead to help you design something you can be proud of and enjoy playing.

Your design is not very attractive.
I'm kinda confused how you can prefer this over a pedestal.

[StammesOpfer]

Don't completely omit the pedestal design as crap. If I had an empty loft...


This would look DOPE.

Also this Bad mother right here...


People here are attacking you with brute force advice. They have been through a lot and seen a lot. Heck, I am in the middle of my first build and some posters in this thread are giving really sound advice. They're trying to prevent you from making a mistake - promise.

Good luck with whatever you choose. (Don't do the shelf thing though)

I like the pedestal it's just I feel like it is out of place. I either want it small enough I can put it away. Or I want it to be fully integrated.

So an upright is just too big and awkward at this size. (That is what you tell me. Never seen one that big in real life.)
Pedestal isn't integrated with the screen. (So I feel like it looks out of place.)
A showcase to be done right I think is a bigger project than I am looking for.

That was what led me to think about the shelf idea (which seems universally hated). It was just a shelf but spin the side around in front and put the panel on top and you have function (not pretty but functional) then you could just spin the side shelf back and it looked normal again. Throw the panel in a closet and you would never know.

[rablack97]

[yotsuya]

I gotta say, bro, I loved the "pedestal wearing a hoodie" comment.

[rablack97]

look at it, its big ass TV with a hoodie.......

My man needs to make his mind up , a respectable cabinet, a hot mess, or an Ikea build that looks like it came from the back of the warehouse.

It's getting worse, the ideas aren't getting better......

Seriously have Haruman draw you up something man, and get it CNC'd, he's a pro at design and wont steer you wrong.  It will save you time and money as well..

He designed this one for me, im sure he can draw you up something with your vision that makes sense.

[harveybirdman]

I hate to go all Josh Baskin on you dude, but "I don't get it"

You say pedestal seems out of place because the screen isnt integrated.  Okay then why not just mount that TV for balll games and find a monitor more suitable for a cabinet.

Another thing I find puzzling is you're talking about building an arcade project using a huge screen with big time $ controls and PC and now we're talking about storing the panel while not in use. WTF?  Is there wife acceptance factor issues we dont know about?

Look build whatever you want, no nerds on a message board can decide what YOU want in YOUR loft.  But if you post a project on here that amounts to Sauder furniture from Wal Mart with an aircraft carrier sized panel built with 2x4's and broken dreams you are going to become a punchline instead of a valued community member.

[StammesOpfer]

Ok all my my ideas suck. I am going to let that part go for a couple days (really I am going to try).

So without getting bogged down in size or what it is going onto. From a playability standpoint.
If I turned the Joysticks straight on the first panel design. Is that better than the straight layout of the second? It seems people have said both ways.

[Nephasth]

Just build your crap. That is obviously going to be the only way you'll get it. You aren't listening to anyone, so stop asking questions when you're just going to ignore the answers.

[Pauly]

Seriously have Haruman draw you up something man, and get it CNC'd, he's a pro at design and wont steer you wrong.  It will save you time and money as well..

He designed this one for me, im sure he can draw you up something with your vision that makes sense.

That's actually a good idea. Tell him what you want and he'll work with you in designing a good build that fits your needs. I would like to say my design was original, but it's totally a rip off of ChanceKJ, whom btw provided schematics to follow and If I'm correct was designed by Haruman & ChanceKJ together in the first place.

[sc23]

Daam people on here need to learn to give advise/criticism without coming across like dream crushers. The legends on here deserve to have their voices heard but completely sucking the life out of someones first build isn't the right way to go. This should be a place where people of all skill levels, creativity and budget are welcomed into the hobby, but it often seems like people just want crap over a project unless its a museum quality reproduction dedicated cab. So many people start threads and leave because of the mocking/dissing they get.

My advice to the builder ( if cost isn't to much of an issue ) is just knock some wood together, build what you envisioned. Don't spend money on graphics until your are happy with layout. If it turns out you don't like it, build a new cab. The cab is just wood and time. The expensive parts like sticks, buttons, encoder, wiring, and well setup PC will all slot nicely into build 2.0. And the cutting and joining mistakes of the first will help make final cab better. IF it turns out you do love it, get some graphics printed and add the finishing touches. Don't expect to plan out, and execute a flynns arcade, first pop. If you can get the side profile you want then screw it all together the width/CP can be pretty easily changed later.

[StammesOpfer]

Daam people on here need to learn to give advise/criticism without coming across like dream crushers. The legends on here deserve to have their voices heard but completely sucking the life out of someones first build isn't the right way to go. This should be a place where people of all skill levels, creativity and budget are welcomed into the hobby, but it often seems like people just want crap over a project unless its a museum quality reproduction dedicated cab. So many people start threads and leave because of the mocking/dissing they get.

My advice to the builder ( if cost isn't to much of an issue ) is just knock some wood together, build what you envisioned. Don't spend money on graphics until your are happy with layout. If it turns out you don't like it, build a new cab. The cab is just wood and time. The expensive parts like sticks, buttons, encoder, wiring, and well setup PC will all slot nicely into build 2.0. And the cutting and joining mistakes of the first will help make final cab better. IF it turns out you do love it, get some graphics printed and add the finishing touches. Don't expect to plan out, and execute a flynns arcade, first pop. If you can get the side profile you want then screw it all together the width/CP can be pretty easily changed later.

Thank you! Yes this is not going to be a masterpiece. I am ok with that. I guess I came here looking for advice about usability. Which I have received not very nicely but I'll take it. This site is a wealth of information. It just is difficult to find what you are looking for sometimes.

Ultimately I think I am going to do a simple pedestal with a plan to convert it to a simple showcase. Something like this.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,138292.msg1428021.html

If I like that then I might try and add some details to it after that. 

I still wouldn't mind some thoughts on control panels. I guess I see a ton of layouts and designs but no real analysis of what you need to have. The kind or questions I have about it are. What kind or spacing do you need between players (or a range or average). How does the angle of the outside players affect that distance required. Is there a preferred angle (is 45deg not a good idea)? How is a simple angle different from the stepped straight panel (like where p3 and p4 are higher than p1 and p2 with the front edge move up too)? How much of a step do you need for it to actually make a difference? Most of this isn't super important with a 2p control but I AM doing a 4p.

I realize that no one has probably studied these things but it seems like enough people build panels that there should be some rule of thumb. Maybe not.

[sc23]

I like the pedestal with TV mount attached idea, gives you a good distance from screen. and gives some room for some nice speakers.
As for CP I would re-think the 4P layout, I cant think of an arcade game that benefits from 4 players, I would go with a nice wide 2 player + trackball setup. The elbow room to play 2 player comfortably outweighs the once in a blue moon time you get 4 people together who WANT to play TMNT. But if you go with 4 player reconsider how many buttons player 3 and 4 need, no 4P games use 6 buttons. But having some personal space when playing 2 player is what I would go for.
EDIT : Just saw your ''I AM '' regarding 4P. Just don't sacrifice players 1 and 2 to give space to hardly used 3 and 4. So many great 2 player games, and only 3 or 4 decent 4 player ones. With a good gap between 1 and 2 at least everyone will have elbow room on one side of body, as opposed to 1 and 2 being sandwiched on both sides. Get a piece of cheap mdf or rigid cardboard and try some layouts, panel is for you and your friends/family so make one that suits.

[yamatetsu]

My suggestion : Go to http://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/layout.html, grab the layout that you need, print it 4 times. Grab a piece of cardboard, trim it to the size of the CP, tack the prints on the positions you think are comfortable. Grab the 3 other people that are going to play the cab, crowd them around the mock CP, shift the prints around until you find a layout that suits everyone.
Better still : Order the sticks / buttons and put them into the cardboard, that way you get a more realistic setup. And while you're at it, put the TV and the mock CP into the positions you think are ok and ask the players (P3 and P4 especially) what they think about the viewing angle. Rinse and repeat until you have found the best setup.

How about doing a pedestal on wheels with stoppers ? That way you could put the pedestal under the TV when it's not in use, thus making it's footprint smaller.

Regarding the comments about your project : It's true that some folks here are a bit outspoken and some comments may sound harsh, BUT these people have tons of experience, have made plenty of mistakes themselves and ultimately just want to help you avoid doing things that WILL ruin your build. I have had some fun discussions with tempers flaring a bit while doing my build, but I ended up getting a much better cab because of it.
So, if experienced people, many of them, tell you that a certain idea is a bad one, it probably is. Just ignore the tone of the comments and take it as constructive criticism.

[Malenko]

No harm in mocking it up in 3D programs for a general look, but definitely make a cardboard mock up of the CP before you put a saw to lumber.

Just because you have a 4 player panel, that doesnt mean it has to be 52" wide.

Thats the exact same size as an NBA Jam control panel , 37" wide

My panel allows for any 4 player jamma standard game, only 4 player games it cant do are the 2 DnD games AFAIK because they have 4 buttons for each player (may add later)
The sticks are all on the same horizontal plane to allow for 2 player smash TV/Karate Champ/total carnage /etc
middle 2 players are the SF+1 aka SFNeo layout, allows for easy control of all the street fighter and Neo Geo games
Despite my love for arkanoid, no spinner (couldnt justify the room or cost to play 1 game)
no trackball because I knew I wouldnt play the games that use it.


All that being said, Im in no way telling you to make a clone of my panel, but you should understand why I did things the way I did and you should do the same.

Figure out what you're going to play move the controls around to play those games.
Mock it up, see how it feels,make adjustments, then repeat this step until its how you want it
actually make the panel.

And just FYI, You are not going to use 4 players as much as you think you will. I made my panel knowing the 4 players wouldn't be used all that much. I think a pedestal is the way to go to fit your needs.

[rablack97]

OMG, people we are all big boys here, and this is a forum.  If you have girly feelings then you shouldn't post stuff to a forum full of purists and people that work with tools.

Sc23, if you read the thread, everyone has said the exact same things your advising, we just didn't stroke the man like a cat.  He's hearing us, but he's not listening.

OP, we've all been doing this for awhile, and if none of us cared you would have 0 views, you have more views than my thread and im actually building something.  Its not a bash fest, however if you want to do your thing and throw something together we know you will hate, then rebuild again, and then again, how's that 3700 machine look to ya, now.  I laugh at it's just wood, you will laugh too once you get started, you will start buying crap you would never think you would own, and do that purchase log, then tell me again It's just wood.

Its a joy to watch people build, but your lucky enough for people to tell you different rather than watch you build a piece of crap and laugh at you.  How would you feel had you built it posted it, all proud and then had NEph and few others tell you how they really feel.  Go look at these folks builds that are so called bashing you, they are pretty good, so the legends round here are like honery old men, they say what they feel, cause they've been there done that.

You will get good advice, but USE the forum, dont just post, ignore advice and keep going down a dead path, otherwise, your gonna get left alone and posting in a ghost thread, or the mockery just gets worse, i've seen folks run away crying and deleting threads cause they didnt man-up.

Man-up and keep it moving, i got plenty of mr horses in my threads, but guess what i can say, all that negativity and advise, produced something thats in my house 5 yrs today.  It has its' spot and it not an eye sore, and it makes sense.

Do not build per se a Dream machine and you don't have a decent understanding of the aesthetics of a cab, go get Saints book, read on the subject, look at the UCA's etc.  The idea's your coming up with, are either Frankenpanels, furniture or future, curb riders with a sign "FREE, take me home please."

So dont even think wood tools, paint, parts, not even one screw till this design is correct.  I promise you if you jump into this like you are now, you are tossing, time and money down the drain.

[Nephasth]

Daam people on here need to learn to give advise/criticism without coming across like dream crushers. The legends on here deserve to have their voices heard but completely sucking the life out of someones first build isn't the right way to go. This should be a place where people of all skill levels, creativity and budget are welcomed into the hobby, but it often seems like people just want crap over a project unless its a museum quality reproduction dedicated cab. So many people start threads and leave because of the mocking/dissing they get.

There are no "legends" here. Each one of us (every member on the forum), is just a dude building toys in his garage.

Museum quality the standard around here? Hell no. The Two-Headed Beast is named such because it is a MONSTROSITY. And as someone who has built a 4 player project... DON'T BUILD A 4 PLAYER PROJECT.

If people get their feelings hurt for having bad ideas and end up leaving... Great. The next wave of new comers shouldn't be seeing garbage that might lead to them making poor design choices. There is no right way to build a cab, but there are numerous wrong ways to do so. Stop with the "One rig to rule them all" nonsense. Build something that plays a selection of games very well.

[yotsuya]

Daam people on here need to learn to give advise/criticism without coming across like dream crushers.

"Gee, buddy, good try!!! You're gonna be a rockstar, champ!!! Just try harder, superstar!! Have better design ideas, and you'll have the most awesomest project in the history of arcades!!! Gold star!!!"

There. A lot nicer, but still not effective.

The legends on here deserve to have their voices heard but completely sucking the life out of someones first build isn't the right way to go. This should be a place where people of all skill levels, creativity and budget are welcomed into the hobby, but it often seems like people just want crap over a project unless its a museum quality reproduction dedicated cab. So many people start threads and leave because of the mocking/dissing they get.

As a legend here ( ), I have a feeling the OP is getting this response because if you bother to read his first post, he pretty much says "Yeah, I know this is what you are going to say, but I don't care". Angled joysticks? Screen size? P3/P4 buttons? He knows what the general consensus (based on experience) is on these things, but HE STATES he's going to do it his way. Fine. But then when he does get good advice (if you want that size screen, build a pedestal), he follows that up with a bizarre Ikea-fueled design that's going away from an arcade cabinet and more towards game-playin' furniture. I mean, build what you want, follow your bliss, but that doesn't mean I (or anyone else who doesn't like it) has to stroke your ego over it.

And those of you who like to say "Waaaah, you're too mean" need to learn the difference between someone looking for real feedback and someone looking for validation for their ideas. I can gladly help the first person, but I'm not a fan of the second one because those ideas are usually bad. They're not looking for suggestions, they're looking for a very specific answer that they want to hear.

And get over this "everything has to be museum quality" or "everything has to be a traditional style cab" type comments. No, they don't. They just need to look like some real effort and thought went into them.

The next wave of new comers shouldn't be seeing garbage that might lead to them making poor design choices.

Too late, I think that's already happening... 



Damn, I broke my one of my BYOAC cardinal rules - "Don't get involved in a 4 Player build thread". /eject

[vwalbridge]

This thread reminds me of one of my favorite quotes:

"Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer but wish we didn't."

[rablack97]

Do it , build it now, I say.....I dub theee Flubber!!!!!



Don't be this guy.....K, okay, good talk....

[Vigo]

'scuse me. Legend coming through. Step aside please. The legend has arrived. 

You -




Us -



You have great ambition, but this is too much for a first project. Make a 2 player cab. If you really want to bring in 4 players, toss in a couple bluetooth gamepads. Buy and install lightguns only after your cab is done. If you want a cab that will be used, focus on asthetics and good basic function more than features.

[rablack97]

Do it , build it now, I say.....I dub theee Flubber!!!!!



Don't be this guy.....K, okay, good talk....

What happened to my photo, who stole my photo.........

Apprarently crapmame photos aren't allowed here.

[dmckean]

Daam people on here need to learn to give advise/criticism without coming across like dream crushers.

There's such a wealth of information on this forum that there's no excuse for Crap MAME builds any longer. It's a nightmare that's being crushed here, not a dream.

[Green Giant]

Well you never said where you were at, but once again if in Houston, Friday night:

http://www.joystixamusements.com/pacmanfever/default.asp

9pm to 2am the first and last Friday of the month.  $15 to get in and everything on freeplay.  Place is loaded with tons of old school and new school games.  It's just north of Minute Maid.

[Vigo]

One basic thing to point out on the op's designs. Don't be afraid of an angled cut or the occasional curve. everything on here seems to be at a perfect 90 degree angle. Makes everything blocky and unappealing. Even the blockiest of arcade cabs like space invaders had a number of angle cuts on them.

How about this approach, maybe start with a theme idea for your cab. Theme could do a lot to dictate the shape and design of your cabinet. Have any ideas for a theme?

[StammesOpfer]

Ok this thread was clearly a mistake at this point. I had some sketchup diarrhea going on (oh and those were very rough I did plan on adding curves and angles not that it would have fixed them). I do appreciate you guys. You have prevented me from making some mistakes (angled Joysticks, cabinet, shelf). I might (probably will) still make others. I'm not convinced about 4p yet.

As for the tone of all the messages. Yeah I started in a way that appeared dead set on creating a pile of ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. I don't want a pile of ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, but I know I am not going to create a masterpiece either. I don't need to get a trophy just for participating. It would be nice if it was approached as "hey you have a pile of ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, why are you set on doing joysticks wrong?" or "You know that cabinet isn't going to be very playable from those distances right?"

I eventually got that between short unhelpful stuff. I did ask for opinions so I'm not upset about it.

[Nephasth]

Do it , build it now, I say.....I dub theee Flubber!!!!!



Don't be this guy.....K, okay, good talk....

What happened to my photo, who stole my photo.........

Apprarently crapmame photos aren't allowed here.

Here you go...

Edit: Strange, the pics weren't working a second ago, now they are. Don't know... Still don't work on my phone...

[vwalbridge]

The only good thing about this arcade is the "Garbage Pail Kids" poster.

[BGoulette]

What, you don't like the contact paper control panel graphics?!

[Nephasth]

What, you don't like the contact paper control panel graphics?!

I'm impressed this guy had the ingenuity to mount the trackball off to the side so you don't smack your hand on the monitor bezel playing Golden Tee. Genius!

[Vigo]

Op, glad you are taking it all in stride. This stage seems to be difficult for most, if anything, for beginners to get their ideas out in a way that is more productive than critical.

So, you got any ideas for a theme? I am going to give you fair warning, the groaning will start again if you do the Mame logo as a marquee and do an art collage of various random video game characters. 

A theme can be as simple as a black cabinet with green highlights, or something themed after a game, movie or something more personal to you. Every good mame cab has a name. I think once you name your cab, it will help you give it an identity.

We will move past this cringe-worthy stage very soon. 

[StammesOpfer]

Op, glad you are taking it all in stride. This stage seems to be difficult for most, if anything, for beginners to get their ideas out in a way that is more productive than critical.

So, you got any ideas for a theme? I am going to give you fair warning, the groaning will start again if you do the Mame logo as a marquee and do an art collage of various random video game characters. 

A theme can be as simple as a black cabinet with green highlights, or something themed after a game, movie or something more personal to you. Every good mame cab has a name. I think once you name your cab, it will help you give it an identity.

We will move past this cringe-worthy stage very soon. 

I hate the "Mame" cabinets with all the random stuff. I am thinking either simple grey with some black, or doing a single game theme. Only problem with the game theme is the games I associate with showcase designs in my head are gun games. I might be wrong but I think if I did a 4p control panel that said Time Crisis or Area51 on it someone might find me and murder me. So probably a simple color theme.

[yotsuya]

Op, glad you are taking it all in stride. This stage seems to be difficult for most, if anything, for beginners to get their ideas out in a way that is more productive than critical.

So, you got any ideas for a theme? I am going to give you fair warning, the groaning will start again if you do the Mame logo as a marquee and do an art collage of various random video game characters. 

A theme can be as simple as a black cabinet with green highlights, or something themed after a game, movie or something more personal to you. Every good mame cab has a name. I think once you name your cab, it will help you give it an identity.

We will move past this cringe-worthy stage very soon. 

I hate the "Mame" cabinets with all the random stuff. I am thinking either simple grey with some black, or doing a single game theme. Only problem with the game theme is the games I associate with showcase designs in my head are gun games. I might be wrong but I think if I did a 4p control panel that said Time Crisis or Area51 on it someone might find me and murder me. So probably a simple color theme.

I give you props for sticking around, bro. Tough love is still love.

You need any help, let me know.

[Malenko]

I'll help you with art.

[Nephasth]

Good theme for a 4 player showcase... Gauntlet Dark Legacy.

Don't build a 4 player showcase.

[StammesOpfer]

I give you props for sticking around, bro. Tough love is still love.

You need any help, let me know.

Thanks I'll take it how I can get it. 

I'll help you with art.

I may take you up on that. I think I need to figure out what it is going on first. I am a little afraid to open sketchup right now.

Good theme for a 4 player showcase... Gauntlet Dark Legacy.

Don't build a 4 player showcase.

Thanks for the suggestion and the advice. I think you mean "DON'T BUILD A 4 PLAYER PROJECT" though.

[StammesOpfer]

Hummm... It would appear that fighters were fairly common on showcase machines. Just not in the arcades I went to as a kid. That makes artwork choice a lot easier.

[vwalbridge]

I give you props for sticking around, bro. Tough love is still love.

You need any help, let me know.

This right here is what BYOAC is all about.

OP,

I guarantee you if you stick with it, and make it to the end with a cab this community participates in...you are going to find it one of the most rewarding feelings in the world.

And in the long run, you can just sit back, relax, and watch your build thread get linked time and time again to tell a "great story".   

[JDFan]

But the friends and I love some Super Smash Bros. That is the big driver for 4p full controls. It plays pretty well on arcade controls. I don't want p3 and p4 using console controllers.

I hate the "Mame" cabinets with all the random stuff. I am thinking either simple grey with some black, or doing a single game theme. Only problem with the game theme is the games I associate with showcase designs in my head are gun games. I might be wrong but I think if I did a 4p control panel that said Time Crisis or Area51 on it someone might find me and murder me. So probably a simple color theme.

Since the main reason for making it a 4 player build with the button setup you are wanting is for 1 specific game and assuming that is the game that the most gameplay is going to be -- would seem to make sense to theme the artwork toward that game  (another advantage to that Theme would be it might stop a few visitors from asking Why so many buttons for player 3 and 4 when almost no games use them !! )

[StammesOpfer]

But the friends and I love some Super Smash Bros. That is the big driver for 4p full controls. It plays pretty well on arcade controls. I don't want p3 and p4 using console controllers.

I hate the "Mame" cabinets with all the random stuff. I am thinking either simple grey with some black, or doing a single game theme. Only problem with the game theme is the games I associate with showcase designs in my head are gun games. I might be wrong but I think if I did a 4p control panel that said Time Crisis or Area51 on it someone might find me and murder me. So probably a simple color theme.

Since the main reason for making it a 4 player build with the button setup you are wanting is for 1 specific game and assuming that is the game that the most gameplay is going to be -- would seem to make sense to theme the artwork toward that game 

Logic is hard to argue with. Only concern I would have is. Since that is all of Nintendo's characters would it start to fall into the confused category of the Mame machine with characters from every game.

[Typefighter01]

I am a little afraid to open sketchup right now.

You still have a sense of humour at least

One thing you will find on here is the guys really respect someone that can take a drubbing and step back, re-evaluate and then keep at it. Everyone is here to help...just take a deep breath and enjoy yourself, that is the whole point of building a cab anyway, isn't it?

[Vigo]

Logic is hard to argue with. Only concern I would have is. Since that is all of Nintendo's characters would it start to fall into the confused category of the Mame machine with characters from every game.

If you go a full on smash bros theme, it should be alright as long as you are selective on your art and pick only smash bros related artwork as a base. There is a mario stikers cab in the pipeline right now that looks great.

[JDFan]

Logic is hard to argue with. Only concern I would have is. Since that is all of Nintendo's characters would it start to fall into the confused category of the Mame machine with characters from every game.

If you go a full on smash bros theme, it should be alright as long as you are selective on your art and pick only smash bros related artwork as a base. There is a mario stikers cab in the pipeline right now that looks great.

Exactly -- ( http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,145989.msg1520661.html#msg1520661 )

[emphatic]

Kudos for sticking around! 

[rablack97]

Kudos for sticking around! 

+1

[mgb]

'scuse me. Legend coming through. Step aside please. The legend has arrived. 

You -




Us -



You have great ambition, but this is too much for a first project. Make a 2 player cab. If you really want to bring in 4 players, toss in a couple bluetooth gamepads. Buy and install lightguns only after your cab is done. If you want a cab that will be used, focus on asthetics and good basic function more than features.

But don't forget, the double decker couch ended up serving some purpose in the end, so was it really a bad idea? 

To the OP,
  your actually doing great. There have been some before who would come around with an idea and would ask for input but then would get all ticked and leave.
I know some of these guys can be harsh and come off a bit like internet trolls but they all mean well.

It's easy to start out with some unrealistic plan and then widdle it down to something that really works for you.

My original plans turned out to not be ideal for me and after a while it got worked down to something I'm really happy with.

[StammesOpfer]

I think I like this style. I think I can handle the skill level required for this one and do it well. Not this drawing specifically (treat it like a bar napkin) but the basic lines. So basically a Dynamo Showcase but built for an LCD instead of a CRT.

[StammesOpfer]

So should I just stop? I don't even know if I am making crap or not. Color will end up being much brighter. Just asking for opinion on design (since I have a history) before I start graphics and getting wood.

Also it may be wide but the CP mockup seems comfortable for 4 people. Not sure how I feel about my choice for button colors but I'll wait until I have artwork to see how it looks.

[harveybirdman]

It's not what I would make, but at least we look like an arcade machine now instead of a ridiculous peice of furniture.

CP is too wide and the aesthetic compromise of more than four buttons for players 3 and 4 isn't worth it for one game but you seem determined to maintain support for it.

If you keep it that way fine but you might consider bending players 3 and 4 so that the controls aren't a straight line so you can loose some of the CP width.

[mgb]

If you keep it that way fine but you might consider bending players 3 and 4 so that the controls aren't a straight line so you can loose some of the CP width.

I agree with that.
You'd really do you self a solid by searching around online and looking at other 4 player control panels in order to really hone your design.

No one is telling you to give up, just trying to help you build a design that you can really appreciate and enjoy.

[yotsuya]

Good luck with your project!

[Vigo]

This is honestly getting better and better every revision. Don't stop, keep it up. I would honestly recommend if you are making a cabinet this large, make it a two-piece, so moving it isn't pain in the butt.

[Vidiot]

I'm subbing to see how this turns out. Some suggestions I might want to make is consider angling the control panel just a bit toward the players. Seems like it would be uncomfortable playing on a completely flat CP. Not too much though.

Also see if you can procure some cardboard. Maybe a local appliance shop would have some large boxes to give you. You could cut out and build a mock-up too see how things look and feel and size up before you actually cut on wood. Could save you a lot of time and money later. I've found this to be a great way to refine a design so it will end up being exactly what you want.

If you keep it that way fine but you might consider bending players 3 and 4 so that the controls aren't a straight line so you can loose some of the CP width.

I agree with that.
You'd really do you self a solid by searching around online and looking at other 4 player control panels in order to really hone your design.

No one is telling you to give up, just trying to help you build a design that you can really appreciate and enjoy.

I agree with this also.

Definitely don't give up. 

[Jefferson]

Hey OP.  I'd love to see you finish this.  My first cab was a 4P (against the advice of some of the regulars around here!) but I eventually won them over.  Check it out in my sig.  They are as opinionated as they are helpful.

I like the showcase cab idea, esp in an open loft.  Do a lotta reading and looking at pics.  Anywhere you can simplify design/art choices will make your project look more confident.

If I were you, I would take the buttons you mostly already have and color coordinate by player (P1 red, P2 blue, etc.)... for the start buttons I like using colored rings to further indicate the player.
That's a lotta buttons for P3 and 4 BUT I'm glad not to also see a trackball, spinner and torn joystick hanging out.  Do you!

[StammesOpfer]

Ok you guys are right (of course). Put a 5 deg angle on the panel which is 1.6in of rise front to back. I was really avoiding doing this (cause I'm stubborn I guess) but it certainly looks better, and I propped up the back side of my test panel and it was more comfortable. So this is me saying thanks guys.

That's a lotta buttons for P3 and 4 BUT I'm glad not to also see a trackball, spinner and torn joystick hanging out.  Do you!

There will be a trackball (big hole in the middle). But that is it. Well and one admin button (pause and hold to exit) then a keyed switch to shift P3 buttons to perform other functions.

For the control panel. To those that are saying change it. I know I could save 6-8 inches in width by doing a more sculpted/angled design all the normal stuff. If I am squeezing it then really I would want to lose 12 inches which I don't think is going to happen and be playable. To tell the truth I don't have a problem with the size as far as the space it takes up or anything like that. So with that said are you guys recommending panel change just to shrink it for the sole reason to be smaller, or is it for playability/aesthetic reasons?

[BGoulette]

So with that said are you guys recommending panel change just to shrink it for the sole reason to be smaller, or is it for playability/aesthetic reasons?

The way I look at it, let's say you had a nice wide room with four chairs all lined up in a row to watch a TV show. The people in seats "3" and "4" are going to end up sitting at an angle or getting cricks in their necks. That's why I'd angle a 4-player CP, if I were building one: to keep players 3 and 4 at a more natural angle to the screen.

[harveybirdman]

Dude... they made them like that for a reason.  Mock it up have four dudes stand where they will be playing on your panel.....

I know it's tough, but let's just take some time and LOOK at some actual four player panels mmmkay?

[StammesOpfer]

So there have been some recommendations the keep all the Joysticks lined up for games that use 2 joysticks. Or I go back to a darker time and go for something like my first post just with the joysticks turned in the correct direction.

Also most commercial 4p panels seem to have the outside player turned 90deg which I get for a small screen down low where you need to be as close as possible but it seems people do this even for pedestals and showcases. Doesn't this make it really awkward to play on a screen that is higher and further away?

Is there a rule of thumb for control angle? For the top one I measured the angle to center of the screen on P1 and p3 then subtracted p1 from p3 and it was about 20deg so that is what I did for rotation. The lower one is just 45deg.

[reptileink]

I wouldn't even begin to describe myself as a legend around here, but I know design, and this design has fail written all over it.

Why are you SO against making the controls the same as almost EVERY 4 player CP out there??

Let me ask you this, do your "boys" come over every night to play? How many times a month are you going to have 4 players at your house? Make an arcade, use 3-4 buttons for the arcade games you guys want to play, and stick to controllers for Smash Bros.

You are saying you aren't going for a "trophy" build, so why are you wasting time building anything at all if you think it's going to be a crap build? Wouldn't you rather invest the time/money into something that you will be proud of, and not just "something I threw together"

LISTEN to what these guys are telling you. Build a 2 player cabinet to learn from, and THEN tackle the large project. Heck, you do a good enough job on the 2 player, you can sell it and use those funds to pay for your bigger showcase build.

I read every post in this thread, and the main thing I see is you asking for advice, and then just deciding to do it your own way instead.  Get some cardboard, mock it up, and ask your buddies if they like rubbing elbows and standing on top of each other while playing games at your house. What's going to happen is they are not going to like the playfield, and stop coming over anyway. Why play a game all crowded together when they can sit 4-5 feet away from each other on a comfortable couch and play it on a console? You will wind up standing at a huge control panel alone on Friday nights. Now you want to throw a trackball in the middle of it all??? 

Think about it.

[vwalbridge]

Is there a rule of thumb for control angle? For the top one I measured the angle to center of the screen on P1 and p3 then subtracted p1 from p3 and it was about 20deg so that is what I did for rotation. The lower one is just 45deg.

I've never built a 4P cab and probably never will so you can tell me to pound sand. But THIS ^ tells me that you are WAY over-thinking your control panel.

There is over 30 years of arcade game designers that have paved the road for you already. All you have to do is copy the most popular 4P layout today.

[StammesOpfer]

Is there a rule of thumb for control angle? For the top one I measured the angle to center of the screen on P1 and p3 then subtracted p1 from p3 and it was about 20deg so that is what I did for rotation. The lower one is just 45deg.

I've never built a 4P cab and probably never will so you can tell me to pound sand. But THIS ^ tells me that you are WAY over-thinking your control panel.

There is over 30 years of arcade game designers that have paved the road for you already. All you have to do is copy the most popular 4P layout today.

Perhaps you are right. But I also like to understand why things are done the way they are. "Because that is just how it's done" is about the worst thing I like to hear.

[dmckean]

These arcade companies have spent thousands of dollars and hours on internal and focus group testing. Plus there's hundreds of guys on here that have built their projects and have first hand knowledge, learn from it. Always stand on the shoulders of giants, there's no reason to reinvent the wheel.

[Nephasth]

"Because that is just how it's done" is about the worst thing I like to hear.

That's funny, the worst thing I like to hear is someone ask for advice and ignore it...

[mgb]

Is there a rule of thumb for control angle? For the top one I measured the angle to center of the screen on P1 and p3 then subtracted p1 from p3 and it was about 20deg so that is what I did for rotation. The lower one is just 45deg.

I've never built a 4P cab and probably never will so you can tell me to pound sand. But THIS ^ tells me that you are WAY over-thinking your control panel.

There is over 30 years of arcade game designers that have paved the road for you already. All you have to do is copy the most popular 4P layout today.

Perhaps you are right. But I also like to understand why things are done the way they are. "Because that is just how it's done" is about the worst thing I like to hear.

No one has given the answer of "that's just how it's done"
They're done that way because it works and there is a certain design aspect so they don't look like
A big turd with sticks

I understand you're gonna do what you want and I wish you luck but don't ask for advice if you don't wanna hear it.

[StammesOpfer]

Is there a rule of thumb for control angle? For the top one I measured the angle to center of the screen on P1 and p3 then subtracted p1 from p3 and it was about 20deg so that is what I did for rotation. The lower one is just 45deg.

I've never built a 4P cab and probably never will so you can tell me to pound sand. But THIS ^ tells me that you are WAY over-thinking your control panel.

There is over 30 years of arcade game designers that have paved the road for you already. All you have to do is copy the most popular 4P layout today.

Perhaps you are right. But I also like to understand why things are done the way they are. "Because that is just how it's done" is about the worst thing I like to hear.

No one has given the answer of "that's just how it's done"
They're done that way because it works and there is a certain design aspect so they don't look like
A big turd with sticks

I understand you're gonna do what you want and I wish you luck but don't ask for advice if you don't wanna hear it.

No but just "copy someone else's" is just about the same thing. I want to make the right choices for the right reasons. Aparently when I ask why something is done like it is, or if there is a reason behind it, then I am being an ass that just won't listen.

Maybe I am asking for science and engineering when it is an art.

[Vigo]

I don't see it as science or art, I see it as just experience talking. I don't know if you are referring to the 6 buttons on p3 and p4 simply for smash bros as the issue you wanted clarification on, but it all just boils down to "1 game isn't worth it" on this big of a machine.

I know you said -

The games that matter for me are mostly shooters and fighters (easy 2p stuff). But the friends and I love some Super Smash Bros. That is the big driver for 4p full controls. It plays pretty well on arcade controls. I don't want p3 and p4 using console controllers.

But we have all been there. we all had that holy grail game we really wanted to play on our cabs and consistently, people here have found that it isn't ever worth to design an entire cab around 1 game unless you want it as a dedicated machine. This is no different than the awkwardly placed tron stick. It collects dust and makes the controls that much harder to work with.

Also, keep in mind that an arcade machine is a big "wow factor" device, and playing smash bros on a large tv is fully possible for anyone who has a  nintendo and a tv. You won't be creating that different of an experience from the console other than everyone is stacked in a row.

I also have to wonder if the controls are really that good on a street fighter control scheme. There are really only two attack buttons in SB, and I see no mental way to logically map the button placement for things like shield, jump, grab and taunt, and i wouldn't know how to parse out the c-stick. If I remember right, it is used for smash attacks, rolling and aerial attacks and they differ depending on which direction you press the stick. I don't even know how it would be accomplished unless you plan on chopping that functionality out to play the game with just the buttons.

If you are looking for an engineering reason why 6 buttons isn't a good idea on player 3 and player 4, think about how P3 will need to be squared up to the control area to use 6 buttons with proper wrist space. Now with only 3 buttons, the player can stand further off the to side, because the buttons will be comfortably usable by just stretching out the arm a little more and swinging the body out. This give a lot more shoulder space for player 1 and 2, and everyone is more comfortable without needing a control panel that you could play shuffleboard on.


Just some food for thought, feel free to take it or leave it. I think basing your controls around 1 game that all your friends probably already own might be mistake, but it is ultimately your machine. 

[sc23]

A simple explanation is you will always want to look at the centre of the screen. Therefore if you are stuck on the sides facing straight ahead your neck is going to be turned while playing, hardly ideal. Its as simple as that. CP needs to be designed so that all players are facing centre of screen, doesn't matter how big screen is you have to look at the centre to focus.
Also, I could be wrong but Smash isn't a game that can really be played properly with arcade controls. If you have a button mapping that works for you great, but for me it just felt bad. If cab is designed around Smash I would look into it.
Everyone has the right to go their own way with a build, if its what you want DO IT you can change the CP layout later if it doesn't work. But start cutting some wood or make some mock ups. Things will come to you as you are building, you will learn as you go. but overthinking and planning lead nowhere. This thread is nearly 4 pages in and no wood has been cut.

[StammesOpfer]

I don't see it as science or art, I see it as just experience talking. I don't know if you are referring to the 6 buttons on p3 and p4 simply for smash bros as the issue you wanted clarification on, but it all just boils down to "1 game isn't worth it" on this big of a machine.

I know you said -

The games that matter for me are mostly shooters and fighters (easy 2p stuff). But the friends and I love some Super Smash Bros. That is the big driver for 4p full controls. It plays pretty well on arcade controls. I don't want p3 and p4 using console controllers.

But we have all been there. we all had that holy grail game we really wanted to play on our cabs and consistently, people here have found that it isn't ever worth to design an entire cab around 1 game unless you want it as a dedicated machine. This is no different than the awkwardly placed tron stick. It collects dust and makes the controls that much harder to work with.

Also, keep in mind that an arcade machine is a big "wow factor" device, and playing smash bros on a large tv is fully possible for anyone who has a  nintendo and a tv. You won't be creating that different of an experience from the console other than everyone is stacked in a row.

I also have to wonder if the controls are really that good on a street fighter control scheme. There are really only two attack buttons in SB, and I see no mental way to logically map the button placement for things like shield, jump, grab and taunt, and i wouldn't know how to parse out the c-stick. If I remember right, it is used for smash attacks, rolling and aerial attacks and they differ depending on which direction you press the stick. I don't even know how it would be accomplished unless you plan on chopping that functionality out to play the game with just the buttons.

If you are looking for an engineering reason why 6 buttons isn't a good idea on player 3 and player 4, think about how P3 will need to be squared up to the control area to use 6 buttons with proper wrist space. Now with only 3 buttons, the player can stand further off the to side, because the buttons will be comfortably usable by just stretching out the arm a little more and swinging the body out. This give a lot more shoulder space for player 1 and 2, and everyone is more comfortable without needing a control panel that you could play shuffleboard on.


Just some food for thought, feel free to take it or leave it. I think basing your controls around 1 game that all your friends probably already own might be mistake, but it is ultimately your machine. 

Thank you.

I don't really need the clarification on the number of buttons I understand that and different peoples perspective on it. I suppose the part about people being square to the controls and everything being comfortable to play on is where I am struggling. I know you gave me the answer of don't use that many buttons. However plenty of people do use that many. I would like to do so as well. I don't know if they have the best solution but I would like to try and have the best solution for the given set of conditions. As for enough shoulder room it does resemble a shuffleboard board a little right now. Though given a widescreen TV that shuffleboard is only about 6 inches wider on each side at the control panel than the screen part.

Super Smash Bros for N64 is playable with these controls. Just ditch taunt, grab on the thumb and shield on the player start button. Yes most other controllers you would have to figure out what to do if you even want to try and make them work. I am not sure I will.

Everyone has the right to go their own way with a build, if its what you want DO IT you can change the CP layout later if it doesn't work. But start cutting some wood or make some mock ups. Things will come to you as you are building, you will learn as you go. but overthinking and planning lead nowhere. This thread is nearly 4 pages in and no wood has been cut.

I did cut some wood to make the mockup CP. But fair point I need to start doing this. I think I will run with the cabinet I can always change the CP later. Your thoughts on the angled outside players is kind of how I was planning on determining how much of an angle. I was looking at 20 deg but may go more like 25-30 deg and just build it.

[sc23]

I wouldn't get to technical about it, just on your mock up stand at player 3 spot and stand at an angle that faces centre of where screen will be place your hands down and bam... that's where stick and buttons need to be. Then fine tune it to make it symmetrical. I wasn't trying to suggest just building with out thought. But I would get the base and screen frame built and drill the CP holes relative to the screen, and then you can trial different positions. Theres no reason you cant build it so you can swap out CP for different config at later date, just don't spend big bucks on graphics till you are happy.