Pole Position Matsushita - MAME?

[OmegaNemesis28]

Hello all.
I am quite a noob at cabinet restoration and mame. First time.

I just fixed up a galaxian cabinet and now am looking at my Pole Position cabinet to MAME it. Currently it won't power on, and I don't feel like bothering in an attempt to fix something that may never be fixable anyway. So I decided to MAME it.

But I'm looking at this Matsushita CRT and I'm wondering if it still works, is there anyway I can convert the input to make it useable with an old PC I have? I've read different discussions about VGA conversion, but I see that all kinds of different CRTs may or may not work.

Does anyone happen to know if the Matsushita CRTs in Pole Positions can be converted to work with a PC within reasonable means? or should I just rip the whole thing out and just not bother?

[Gray_Area]

There are simple answers to at least some of your questions. They're here. Either look for and read a whole bunch, or don't bother.

[OmegaNemesis28]

There are simple answers to at least some of your questions. They're here. Either look for and read a whole bunch, or don't bother.

I read the FAQs and a couple threads already, but again I have no idea about my Matsushita and most of the technical stuff. There isn't really any kind of "noob" tutorial about this kind of stuff, so I have to learn somehow. I thought maybe it was something like the VGA PCB converter boards http://ultimarc.com/jpac.html

but I don't want to buy one if it doesn't work with Matsushitas for whatever reason (too old?) or somethingelse I need.

Thanks for the help though, I guess?

[Le Chuck]

There are simple answers to at least some of your questions. They're here. Either look for and read a whole bunch, or don't bother.

I read the FAQs and a couple threads already, but again I have no idea about my Matsushita and most of the technical stuff. There isn't really any kind of "noob" tutorial about this kind of stuff, so I have to learn somehow. I thought maybe it was something like the VGA PCB converter boards http://ultimarc.com/jpac.html

but I don't want to buy one if it doesn't work with Matsushitas for whatever reason (too old?) or somethingelse I need.

Thanks for the help though, I guess?

Don't mind gray, he doesn't speak for the collective.  As far as your issue goes, cabs failing to power on is not a very good indication of a cab that can't be repaired.  Lots of cabs suffer from blown fuses, unplugged or miswired power supplies, back door switches that are not positioned correctly, and any number of issues that are simple to fix.  There are tons of stories on these boards about guys getting cabs on the cheap, doing a simple repair, and presto - working cab. 

If you're set on Mame'ing tho the best thing you can do is look up the specs on that monitor then post them here that way folks can help you interpret your data and walk you towards a viable solution. 

[OmegaNemesis28]

There are simple answers to at least some of your questions. They're here. Either look for and read a whole bunch, or don't bother.

I read the FAQs and a couple threads already, but again I have no idea about my Matsushita and most of the technical stuff. There isn't really any kind of "noob" tutorial about this kind of stuff, so I have to learn somehow. I thought maybe it was something like the VGA PCB converter boards http://ultimarc.com/jpac.html

but I don't want to buy one if it doesn't work with Matsushitas for whatever reason (too old?) or somethingelse I need.

Thanks for the help though, I guess?

Don't mind gray, he doesn't speak for the collective.  As far as your issue goes, cabs failing to power on is not a very good indication of a cab that can't be repaired.  Lots of cabs suffer from blown fuses, unplugged or miswired power supplies, back door switches that are not positioned correctly, and any number of issues that are simple to fix.  There are tons of stories on these boards about guys getting cabs on the cheap, doing a simple repair, and presto - working cab. 

If you're set on Mame'ing tho the best thing you can do is look up the specs on that monitor then post them here that way folks can help you interpret your data and walk you towards a viable solution.

I did manage to fix the power issue just now. The connection to the powersupply from the cord was frayed and the molex was cracked. I fixed it and the machine powers up now.
However, no sound or any kind of visuals come up. The CRT is just blue with some scrolling horizontal lines across it.

I played with some of the connectors too but to no avail. I noticed that a previous owned had done a voltage mod on the board, apparently Pole Positions had a power issue that would fry some of the contacts with the game board.

I tried looking for some information about the CRT itself. I found the manual for the CRT.
Specs are:
Convergence Tolerance— max. 0.3 mm, center of screenmax. 0.8 mm,
corners of screen Purity—Color impurity should not be found on screen after being degaussed with hand-held degaussing coil

15.734 KHz : 250 Hz      Over 50-60 Hz
Pull-ln Range, Horizontal  Pull-ln Range, Vertical
Type of CRT #370GHB22, 14-Inch,
90° Tilt of Deflection Yoke F.
Connectors
 3-Pin Connector for R.G.B.
 Input Signal:Pin 1 =Red Pin2:Green
 2-Pin Connector for Sync
Signal: Pin 1 = Blue (sync) Pin 2 = White (ground)

 and I could only pull up the schematics PDF and some online posts regarding the different Pole Position configurations. Apparently, Pole Position would be shipped with one of 2 different monitors that were wired differently. The Matsushita's main video connector is documented here:



http://arcarc.xmission.com/PDF_Arcade_Atari_Kee/Pole_Position/Pole_Position_CO-218-09_1st_Printing.pdf - Page 9

[mgb]

If you've got raster on the screen which it sounds like you do, then the monitor seems to work do that's cool. 
So no video or sound would equate to a board issue.

 If that pole position still has the big Atari power block with the big blue capacitors, I'd suspect that.
If you wanna fix the pole position, you may wanna either look into replacing those caps and fixing up that power supply or better yet, search for info on putting in a switching power supply.
The main thing you need to know about using the matsushita monitor for mame is that it's a standard resolution monitor (15khz)
Do a search on using an arcade monitor for mame. It's completely possible.
You will need a comparable video card and possibly software such as soft15khz (or what ever the heck it's called)

[OmegaNemesis28]

If you've got raster on the screen which it sounds like you do, then the monitor seems to work do that's cool. 
So no video or sound would equate to a board issue.

 If that pole position still has the big Atari power block with the big blue capacitors, I'd suspect that.
If you wanna fix the pole position, you may wanna either look into replacing those caps and fixing up that power supply or better yet, search for info on putting in a switching power supply.
The main thing you need to know about using the matsushita monitor for mame is that it's a standard resolution monitor (15khz)
Do a search on using an arcade monitor for mame. It's completely possible.
You will need a comparable video card and possibly software such as soft15khz (or what ever the heck it's called)

Yeah quick update.
So I pulled the board out and saw that someone tried fixing this thing several times. Tons of different soldered on wires. I switched the PCB interconnect and now the game turns on, but it gives like 5 different RAM and ROM errors. Busted game board, pretty straight forward I think. The big blue capacitor on the power supply looks a bit corroded too, which can lend to the issue, but it seems as though the best step would be to just MAME it. But it indeed confirms that the CRT is in fine condition.

The issue I'm struggle with the MAME thing, and the original kinda point of the thread before I made any progress on fixing it, was if the connector - the weird RGB connector - would work with a VGA converter at all. You said its a standard resolution monitor, so I'm assuming you also meant the connector would indeed work too?

[mgb]

Its really not an issue about an odd connector. You will need to make up connectors in order to work.
There is no special PC to Matsushita adapter, if that's what you're asking.
You will need to hack a vga cable in order to make the connection and in some cases a video amp is also needed (ultimarc has these).

as far as connections go, a typical arcade monitor will have red, green, blue, video ground and sync.
the matsushita is really no different other then the fact that it has that goofy little daughter board.

Gray Area may have come off as kind of rude but there is some truth to what he said. Theres not really a simple quick answer and I would highly advise that you do a little study on monitors. It will be your best bet for getting these answers. 

Don't forget you will still need to use an isolation transformer for powering that monitor.

[OmegaNemesis28]

Its really not an issue about an odd connector. You will need to make up connectors in order to work.
There is no special PC to Matsushita adapter, if that's what you're asking.
You will need to hack a vga cable in order to make the connection and in some cases a video amp is also needed (ultimarc has these).

as far as connections go, a typical arcade monitor will have red, green, blue, video ground and sync.
the matsushita is really no different other then the fact that it has that goofy little daughter board.

That was the answer I was looking for. If I could just wire the VGA like other CRT monitors, and if there was anything different that I may need to have purchased. The connection didn't look too ordinary when I looked at other CRTs.

Gray Area may have come off as kind of rude but there is some truth to what he said. Theres not really a simple quick answer and I would highly advise that you do a little study on monitors. It will be your best bet for getting these answers. 

What I previously stated coupled with the fact that Pole Position boards are nothing like other JAMMA compliant boards and stuff, I wasn't sure what else would be required.
There is very little information I can find about this stuff specifically. I've googled, searched this site and others, and Reddit'd. Otherwise I wouldn't be asking.

Don't forget you will still need to use an isolation transformer for powering that monitor.

Is there anything inherently wrong with just using the Atari power supply thats already in the machine? (another bit of information that isn't exactly easy to find without specifically asking)

[mgb]

All of this information is readily available. I wouldn't go to reddit for info like this.
This kinda info really comes from searching the Internet and reading articles.
Sites like www.thereslbobroberts.net have excellent articles full of info.

Randy Fromm has a paid site $50 for the year. It's awesome

Reading posts like thise found on this site and klov.

Arcarcxmission.com has a whole bunch of manuals.
I know both Atari and Williams had service manuals which covered not only their specific equient but also troubleshooting 101 and multiple models of monitors.

It's all there, you just gotta seek it out.
But of course you are also completely free to ask here. It's what the forum is for.

As for the monitor power supply.
Yes if you leave the power brick in place  and leave the monitor powered up as is, you'll be fine.

[Drnick]

All of this information is readily available. I wouldn't go to reddit for info like this.
This kinda info really comes from searching the Internet and reading articles.
Sites like www.therealbobroberts.net have excellent articles full of info.

FTFY

[Gray_Area]

See, got him hooked.

[mgb]

All of this information is readily available. I wouldn't go to reddit for info like this.
This kinda info really comes from searching the Internet and reading articles.
Sites like www.therealbobroberts.net have excellent articles full of info.

FTFY

Thanks.
I was a much better typer on my old blackberry than I am on the iPhone   

[OmegaNemesis28]

All of this information is readily available. I wouldn't go to reddit for info like this.
This kinda info really comes from searching the Internet and reading articles.
Sites like www.thereslbobroberts.net have excellent articles full of info.

Randy Fromm has a paid site $50 for the year. It's awesome

Reading posts like thise found on this site and klov.

Arcarcxmission.com has a whole bunch of manuals.
I know both Atari and Williams had service manuals which covered not only their specific equient but also troubleshooting 101 and multiple models of monitors.

It's all there, you just gotta seek it out.
But of course you are also completely free to ask here. It's what the forum is for.

As for the monitor power supply.
Yes if you leave the power brick in place  and leave the monitor powered up as is, you'll be fine.

This is what I mean though, a lot of this information isn't readily available as you make it seem. That site you linked: I couldn't find that off Google or when I searched this forum. Its certainly not in the FAQs or stickies that I would have found relevant.

I've read all the Pole Position manuals I could find. I even linked one to you, with an image to boot right before.
I even read all the conversion to MAME threads I could find on this site and others for PP1 and PP2. All of them involve not using the CRT included pretty much, or if they maybe~ do - it isn't detailed in any way. The Matushita monitor is almost never mentioned, and Pole Positions sometimes come with a different monitor all together.

I sought for awhile to see if anyone has ever blatantly said "yes, I did or could do X with a Matushita monitor" yet alone how. Because there are so many different kinds, turned up empty handed. And yet again, its pretty common knowledge from my understanding that Pole Positions are non-standard in almost any way. So out of the 1,000s of guides I've read that have said "do this with the CRT, buy this for the CRT", I have no idea or way of telling if that would apply to mine without specifically asking.

Sorry for doing so.
I'm sure there are plenty of people who ask about things that are blatantly in FAQs or are the first result of Google searches. I've done that searching, reading, and then some for a week and a half now.

But thank you for the information regardless of the resilience.

I wouldn't go to reddit for info like this.

There are dedicated subreddits there (just like this is a dedicated forum), and very friendly people willing to help. Some even one on one. It's quite nice. I wouldn't have bothered to come here if people there didn't know about Matsushita CRTs either.

[OmegaNemesis28]

Double posted

Anyways, thanks for the answers that were provided or alluded to for some reason. I'll just whip up some wires to connect to the CRT's connection and attach them to the VGA pins and try it out with Soft15.

[mgb]

No one expects you to be sorry for asking questions here. That is what this forum is for.
 It's just that you said these answers are not out there and I was trying to point you to where these answers are.
I'm sorry if I came off as rude, that was not my intention.
  I'm not sure about answers just being alluded to. A lot of these things are somewhat generic, it doesn't matter if its a matsashitu or a wells Gardner. 

[yotsuya]

I'm just disappointed that KenLayton hasn't weighed in with his opinion on these monitors. 

[mgb]

There's was another post recently where he simply chimed in "matsuSHITa"
That sums it up well

[yotsuya]

Yeah, but it's funnier when Ken says it. )

[OmegaNemesis28]

No one expects you to be sorry for asking questions here. That is what this forum is for.
 It's just that you said these answers are not out there and I was trying to point you to where these answers are.
I'm sorry if I came off as rude, that was not my intention.
  I'm not sure about answers just being alluded to. A lot of these things are somewhat generic, it doesn't matter if its a matsashitu or a wells Gardner.

And thats where my confusion came from. I was reading about and looking at at Wells Gardner headers, and was weirded out by the fact that the Matsushita had a funny looking connector despite the pin outs being quite similar if not the same. I wasn't sure if maybe the stupid CRT was just as proprietary to some of these machines its in as the boards Atari put into theirs sometimes.

I'm sorry for my snappiness. Its just I've been fiddling with the cabinet for awhile and have been fed up with trying to fix everything by hand on a tight budget when there are just so many damned things wrong with this thing I'm finding out. Your information and the direction you gave me really helped. I just couldn't find anything on what I'm doing. The website you linked has the perfect pinout image too.

I pinned out a VGA cable, attached it to the CRT, and it worked a bit. The screen is flashing by vertically and I tried playing with the V hold to no avail, and all the resolution outputs I could change to. My shoddy soldering and wire cutting is probably the issue because it will significantly clear up if I shimmy the Comp sync cord around. I decided to just shell out cash for a VGA breakout from ultmiarc and see if that resolves it. Also paid out the butt for joysticks and buttons while I was at it.

No point in holding back and not getting the job done. 

[mgb]

Is your sync connection only to the horizontal sync input on the monitor?
  If it is, loop it with the vertical sync input also, so that the one sync line from the breakout cable goes to both the vertical and horizontal  sync inputs.

 As far as your frustration, I understand.
These things can be frustrating as the desire is to just simply play some classic games.