a no front-end front-end.

[Vigo]

.. fine.  what word?

Attack. No one here has been hostile against you. You may have been hit with a bit of Snark, but I think that it is due to your over-reaction from criticism.

Trust me, I have had ideas that have been from another planet of what everybody else thinks, and even though I have been nothing but criticized for it, I still think it is a good idea. Anyone remember Vigo going on about Mahjong Control Panels? Vigo still thinks he will be on the cusp of greatness when that baby gets made.  Well...I at least took the criticism without being a dick to anyone who disagreed with me.

Your idea has merit, and it might be what is right for you, but to most of us here, you are swatting a fly with an anvil. I can tell programming is no big deal to you, but wouldn't it just be easier to just have a hidden touch screen on your cabinet that you can use select the game from?

I mean, with your way you are relying on a cabinet without a keyboard or any form of easy admin access to only work through network commands without ever going down or having lag. Maybe you can do it seamlessly, but I can't even get my ps3 to stay online all the time without problems. I just see remote access only as a big can of worms with very little benefit. Sorry, but I can't recall a single time that I am in an airport, or at burger king or on the crapper and decided that I want to change my Mame machine from Mappy Land over to Zaxxon. And on a phone? Damn, I can't even dial a phone number without having to go back from pressing the wrong button 3 times. Can you really display more than a few games at a time on a browser list and still have the ability to select want you want, and keep it all easy to navigate? I dunno. Maybe you should go ahead and make it and show us how it's done right.

[sandheaver]

Your idea has merit, and it might be what is right for you, but to most of us here, you are swatting a fly with an anvil. I can tell programming is no big deal to you, but wouldn't it just be easier to just have a hidden touch screen on your cabinet that you can use select the game from?

Maybe, but I don't have spare touch monitors laying around.  I do have spare web browsers and time.

I mean, with your way you are relying on a cabinet without a keyboard or any form of easy admin access to only work through network commands without ever going down or having lag. Maybe you can do it seamlessly, but I can't even get my ps3 to stay online all the time without problems.

You are not the only one to have PS3 wireless problems.  My network has never had such issues, and even if it did, it would be like an escalator breaking down and halting, becoming another useful (though unmoving) way to traverse floors in a building: stairs.  If my ability to change games suddenly is lost, I still have a working game I liked enough to switch to in the first place.  I can fix it at my leisure.

I just see remote access only as a big can of worms with very little benefit. Sorry, but I can't recall a single time that I am in an airport, or at burger king or on the crapper and decided that I want to change my Mame machine from Mappy Land over to Zaxxon.

It would not be used when you're away from home.  That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  If someone is at home and wants to change the game, they can do so themselves.

And on a phone? Damn, I can't even dial a phone number without having to go back from pressing the wrong button 3 times. Can you really display more than a few games at a time on a browser list and still have the ability to select want you want, and keep it all easy to navigate? I dunno. Maybe you should go ahead and make it and show us how it's done right.

Certainly.  On my phone, HTML SELECT lists are rendered as native controls once clicked/tapped.  So, when I click a dropdown, I get a fullscreen phone-UI that lets me easily make a choice; the control is easy to read and easy to use.  I know it's that way on Android and Windows Phone, and I suspect iPhone as well.  That is a good point, though, I really don't know how it would render on all platforms.  But I really only care about my own, and I know it would be just fine in that case.

I see remote access an a very easily implemented solution.  I've done this a great deal for other purposes and it's not new territory for me at all.  This is probably why I'm so comfortable with it and few others are.

Thank you for actually wanting to discuss the topic.

[yotsuya]

In all seriousness, I'd like to see you code this and post a video of it in action. I don't personally see a use for it, but maybe you can convince some of us ---uvulas--- that we're wrong. 

[Nephasth]

You're still here? I thought you left.

[Vigo]

In all seriousness, I'd like to see you code this and post a video of it in action. I don't personally see a use for it, but maybe you can convince some of us ---uvulas--- that we're wrong. 

+1

Sandheaver, I like your responses to my points. You make it sound like it is a good solution for you needs. I still think it is unnecessary, but who ever said overkill always was a bad thing? I hope it works as smoothly for you as you say it will.

I just see remote access only as a big can of worms with very little benefit. Sorry, but I can't recall a single time that I am in an airport, or at burger king or on the crapper and decided that I want to change my Mame machine from Mappy Land over to Zaxxon.

It would not be used when you're away from home.  That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  If someone is at home and wants to change the game, they can do so themselves.

But now thinking about it. It might be a cool feature to mess with people playing on your machine. Set up a wifi camera as well, bring a friend over, have them go for a high score on their favorite game while you make a run for some food. Then watch them over the camera and when they are getting far in the game, change the game to Snacks 'n Jackson on them. 

[Malenko]

It's times like this that I really miss Pinball Jim.

This is one of the dumbest ideas Ive ever read. I'd rather select the game on the 27" monitor then on a 4.3" phone screen. This ranks right up there with XuiceBox's rotating panel.

I'll attack you, cause its ---smurfing--- stupid. Everyone else tries to be constructive but you'll have none of that, so I'll be your huckleberry. All ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- aside, doesnt this OP and post sort of remind you of a certain young custom LCD monitor slinging kid that wanted to have his MAME hosted on a server in his unventilated closet and accessed from a thin client based arcade machine while "streaming" roms all over his house?

"A solution to a problem no one will ever have"

[HaRuMaN]

You're still here? I thought you left.

I guess he sucks at quitting, too...   

[Endprodukt]

Haha this can only get better. 

[Vigo]

It's times like this that I really miss Pinball Jim.

This is one of the dumbest ideas Ive ever read. I'd rather select the game on the 27" monitor then on a 4.3" phone screen. This ranks right up there with XuiceBox's rotating panel.

I'll attack you, cause its ---smurfing--- stupid. Everyone else tries to be constructive but you'll have none of that, so I'll be your huckleberry. All ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- aside, doesnt this OP and post sort of remind you of a certain young custom LCD monitor slinging kid that wanted to have his MAME hosted on a server in his unventilated closet and accessed from a thin client based arcade machine while "streaming" roms all over his house?

"A solution to a problem no one will ever have"

Ahh, you're missing the beauty of this project idea then. Am I the only one who enjoys watching his friends get bewildered when trying to navigate my mame machine? This is that enjoyment times 1000. When they ask how to change games or adjust settings and you toss them a web address in response, saying "I dont want you touchin' my phone" Just wait for their million dollar reactions. And then once they figure it out, turn the machine on "name that tune" and quickly unplug the internet router. 

Its sorta the same beauty that the world missed with X's rotating panel. I mean, just let that panel free spin, invite some friends over, and don't tell them a thing about what controls are used for each game. Pure entertainment. Just sit back and watch while they try 10 minutes to figure out what controls are needed to play a game of Moon Patrol. If you want to go the extra mile, set every control not used by that specific game to escape out of mame. It will be like Indiana Jones trying to pick the Holy Grail.

[sandheaver]

"A solution to a problem no one will ever have"

In-cabinet front-ends are necessarily ugly to me.  This is what I'm avoiding.  So, it is a solution to a problem I have.  It is not a solution to a problem you have.

You're still here? I thought you left.

I guess he sucks at quitting, too...   

She.

[Malenko]

"A solution to a problem no one will ever have"

In-cabinet front-ends are necessarily ugly to me.  This is what I'm avoiding.  So, it is a solution to a problem I have.  It is not a solution to a problem you have.

If only the current front ends could be skinned and/or heavily altered...........

I stand by my answer, picking a game on your phone for your arcade cab is a pointless idea. Its like having a remote start buttons for your car, that you can only press while in the drivers seat of the car.  That being said, if you want to do it, then do it. Just don't get a bunch of sand in your girly parts when people disagree with you.

[Le Chuck]

"A solution to a problem no one will ever have"

In-cabinet front-ends are necessarily ugly to me.  This is what I'm avoiding.  So, it is a solution to a problem I have.  It is not a solution to a problem you have.

You're still here? I thought you left.

I guess he sucks at quitting, too...   

She.

Called it! 

[sandheaver]

"A solution to a problem no one will ever have"

In-cabinet front-ends are necessarily ugly to me.  This is what I'm avoiding.  So, it is a solution to a problem I have.  It is not a solution to a problem you have.

If only the current front ends could be skinned and/or heavily altered...........

I stand by my answer, picking a game on your phone for your arcade cab is a pointless idea. Its like having a remote start buttons for your car, that you can only press while in the drivers seat of the car.  That being said, if you want to do it, then do it. Just don't get a bunch of sand in your girly parts when people disagree with you.

Find me one that isn't ugly or just plain tacky in general and I'll start listening to this point of view.  There is no way that having a selection screen, no matter how elegant, is the proper approach, to me.  This is a preference, so don't bother arguing it; I understand that your preference(s) are different.  That's fine, I'm not telling you that you're wrong, I'm just saying that my preference is to not have a game-selection UI at all, even if it's on a phone or a web browser outside of the cabinet.

That said, I recognize the necessity of such a selection system.  One game per cabinet is impractical unless you own a gymnasium and it's not being used for anything else.  So, I'm trying to make a game selection system that is completely and totally invisible to the user standing/sitting at the cabinet.  You may not like it.  That's fine.  I'm doing it anyway.  And no, I will not be posting any pictures or video when it's done.  You've all made it clear that this is of no interest to you, and I won't pretend otherwise.

[Malenko]

I was just replying to you the way that you were replying to everyone else. No UI is unpossible, youre just moving it to the phone or whatever. I have 6 machines and counting, Im hoping to one day not need a UI either.  As for not posting picture or videos......that seems a little juvenile / cunty to me.

[yotsuya]

So, I'm trying to make a game selection system that is completely and totally invisible to the user standing/sitting at the cabinet.  You may not like it.  That's fine.  I'm doing it anyway.  And no, I will not be posting any pictures or video when it's done.  You've all made it clear that this is of no interest to you, and I won't pretend otherwise.

Then why the ---fudgesicle--- are you wasting your time here?

[sandheaver]

I was just replying to you the way that you were replying to everyone else. No UI is unpossible, youre just moving it to the phone or whatever. I have 6 machines and counting, Im hoping to one day not need a UI either.  As for not posting picture or videos......that seems a little juvenile / cunty to me.

Your choice of words is terrible.

Why would I bother those of you who I've bothered so much already.  Half of you have me on your ignore lists, certainly.

Believing you have the right to see what I'm doing is not reasonable.  You'll see the software if I choose to show it to you.  As of this moment I'm quite certain no one here is interested in anything I do or say.

So, I'm trying to make a game selection system that is completely and totally invisible to the user standing/sitting at the cabinet.  You may not like it.  That's fine.  I'm doing it anyway.  And no, I will not be posting any pictures or video when it's done.  You've all made it clear that this is of no interest to you, and I won't pretend otherwise.

Then why the ---fudgesicle--- are you wasting your time here?

When I started this topic, I was quite happy to show my progress.  Now it seems no one is interested in me or my progress.  That's why.

[yotsuya]

I was just replying to you the way that you were replying to everyone else. No UI is unpossible, youre just moving it to the phone or whatever. I have 6 machines and counting, Im hoping to one day not need a UI either.  As for not posting picture or videos......that seems a little juvenile / cunty to me.

Your choice of words is terrible.

Why would I bother those of you who I've bothered so much already.  Half of you have me on your ignore lists, certainly.

Believing you have the right to see what I'm doing is not reasonable.  You'll see the software if I choose to show it to you.  As of this moment I'm quite certain no one here is interested in anything I do or say.

So, I'm trying to make a game selection system that is completely and totally invisible to the user standing/sitting at the cabinet.  You may not like it.  That's fine.  I'm doing it anyway.  And no, I will not be posting any pictures or video when it's done.  You've all made it clear that this is of no interest to you, and I won't pretend otherwise.

Then why the ---fudgesicle--- are you wasting your time here?

When I started this topic, I was quite happy to show my progress.  Now it seems no one is interested in me or my progress.  That's why.

I tried to extend the olive branch and tell you that I am interested in seeing your project (which I am, even though I wouldn't use it). But most kids, when they take their ball and go home, actually GO home rather than stand in the park and continually tell the kids they're going to leave.

Look, you are certainly welcome here. You obviously think your project has more merit than others here do. Fine, I get that. Code it, and show us. If you're not going to, why stick around?

Conversely, will your front end be able to let people play Galaga?

[Le Chuck]

Half of you have me on your ignore lists, certainly.

What's got two thumbs and is still tuned in to your crazy station?  THIS GUY!


















Don't flatter yourself, it's way too much work to add you to an ignore list, especially when it's so much fun to watch you self destruct.  Oh, and don't pretend you're not clicking the little link to show my hidden posts...I know you are.  Aren't you, you dirty bird. 

[EightBySix]

Hesitating to jump in here, but I can kind of see where the OP is coming from.

I'm setting up my project so it boots straight into the last game played. To me, it adds to the illusion that its an arcade game. Lots of us go to lengths to hide evidence of Windows - its really just a natural extension of that.

As for the front end - I'm hoping to keep mine minimal - using the LED display to scroll through available games. I kind of like the idea in the future, of putting my phone down on it (mines a table so it's a sensible place to do so) and using nfc to fire up an app on my phone with game stats, menu for choosing next game etc. Only as an alternative though, not the main way of selecting.

[yotsuya]

Hesitating to jump in here, but I can kind of see where the OP is coming from.

I'm setting up my project so it boots straight into the last game played. To me, it adds to the illusion that its an arcade game. Lots of us go to lengths to hide evidence of Windows - its really just a natural extension of that.

As for the front end - I'm hoping to keep mine minimal - using the LED display to scroll through available games. I kind of like the idea in the future, of putting my phone down on it (mines a table so it's a sensible place to do so) and using nfc to fire up an app on my phone with game stats, menu for choosing next game etc. Only as an alternative though, not the main way of selecting.

I think we can all see where the OP is coming from regarding the FE- it's just that it's not a problem that isn't currently solvable. I showed the example with my Tempest. The FE never shows unless I want it to. To guests, it's a dedicated Tempest machine. If they want to play Galaga, they can get on my vertical MAME machine.

Maybe it's all in what you want from your cabinet. I want to be able to walk up to it, pick a game, and play. If I need to start digging around for my phone and access a website/app to change a game, I'm doing it wrong, IMHO.

[Malenko]

Your choice of words is terrible.

Why would I bother those of you who I've bothered so much already.  Half of you have me on your ignore lists, certainly.

I don't ignore anyone, and if I ever changed my mind you are no where near the top of the list. As for my choice of words...I go for effectiveness over eloquence.  Either be a part of the community or go away *shrugs*

Because someone tells you its a waste of time to do (and it is) doesnt mean we dont want to see the end result when you do it anyway. I personally would love to see XuiceBox's control panel dispense bingo balls everytime you changed games.

[Endprodukt]

She doesn't care what we think or wants to hear our opinion. she won't go either. She won't show her FE once it's done and ban everyone on this forum. Ever. Most ridiculous thread I've seen in a long time.

[Le Chuck]

[Ond]

What a thread, well its different anyhow.  It is missing PB Jims particular POV, oh well.  So the basic idea here (if I understand it correctly) is a kind of web based remote control for your cab to control emulators, game switching etc without having any visible FE on the cab right?  Well OK, I'd like to see it happen.  As a bit of a different perspective on this you may start out with one idea and end up with something else really useful to the community.  If you have the coding skills you claim it would be a shame to not show what you got and contribute. 
If you start off by evangelising an idea that is a bit left of field (according to some) it’s a sure thing you’ll get comments like ‘overcomplicated’ ‘difficult to do’ etc that’s just  interwebs par for the course opinion.  If you make something and ASK for opinions you’ll probably get more lovin than you have so far.  Even Howard is right sometimes.  I didn’t say that.

[Aceisback]

Wow. I just think this forum has surpassed the XDA development forums for childish behavior...

Who cares how complex something is or whether or not it will be worth the trouble. I thought these boards were here to help people not discourage them from doing something new.

I keep hearing how great Mala and Mamewah are, but I cannot even get Mamewah to run (on a WIN7 64bit and WIN8 64bit pc) and Mala just plain sucks in my own opinion not because it doesn't work, just because it is not what I was looking for in a FE, and I have tried several. I am currently using that overly complex Hypersin, and so far it has been the easiest to setup and use and does what I want it to. What works for some does not always work for others, so why all the trash talk? In todays age, we are controlling other things with our phones and tablets, why not an arcade machine???

[sandheaver]

She doesn't care what we think or wants to hear our opinion. she won't go either. She won't show her FE once it's done and ban everyone on this forum. Ever. Most ridiculous thread I've seen in a long time.

That's... some grammar you have there.  If you're not a native speaker then that's fine, but if you are, you need to work on that.

I don't ignore anyone, and if I ever changed my mind you are no where near the top of the list. As for my choice of words...I go for effectiveness over eloquence.  Either be a part of the community or go away *shrugs*

You have neither effectiveness nor eloquence.  I'm not going away, but I'll tone it down accordingly.

So the basic idea here (if I understand it correctly) is a kind of web based remote control for your cab to control emulators, game switching etc without having any visible FE on the cab right?  Well OK, I'd like to see it happen.  As a bit of a different perspective on this you may start out with one idea and end up with something else really useful to the community.

For this reason, I started writing the software tonight.

Client side, on my phone, looks like this, so far.  http://imgur.com/a/z2Lig  One image is of the main first screen, the other is what the buttons dropdown looks like when you press it.  This should serve as a demonstration that the UI elements are plenty big, at least on Windows Phone.  My Android development phone also shows the large UI elements.  This UI isn't done yet; there will be a "save my cabinet" link which will store your cabinet configuration.  Subsequent visits to the page will bring you to the game list, with a link to go back and modify the config when/if it changes.

Server side, I've completed the logic that reads in the MAME -listxml file and only shows the games that are compatible with your cabinet.  This was much easier than I thought it would be and is very fast.  I used the extra time to set up a server on the public Internet that other people can use to query the MAME list, but I have some bugs and won't give out the link, yet.  When I do, though, you can go crazy querying, if you want.  Or, don't, up to you.  If you want to programmatically access a list of games supported by the latest MAME version given your own query options, well my service will help you.  It will be a REST service; queries in the URL, response returned as JSON or XML.

Tomorrow I'll create the query object that will be passed between the configuration page pictured and the results page, and I'll work on and hopefully finish the launching of MAME.  When I do, I'll take a video.

Wow. I just think this forum has surpassed the XDA development forums for childish behavior...

Who cares how complex something is or whether or not it will be worth the trouble. I thought these boards were here to help people not discourage them from doing something new.

I keep hearing how great Mala and Mamewah are, but I cannot even get Mamewah to run (on a WIN7 64bit and WIN8 64bit pc) and Mala just plain sucks in my own opinion not because it doesn't work, just because it is not what I was looking for in a FE, and I have tried several. I am currently using that overly complex Hypersin, and so far it has been the easiest to setup and use and does what I want it to. What works for some does not always work for others, so why all the trash talk? In todays age, we are controlling other things with our phones and tablets, why not an arcade machine???

Agreed & thank you.

[Aceisback]

Hopefully, things cool down and the project gets back on track...

I was interested in this idea because although it may not be what some people want as a FE, it can always lead to something also.

Keep us updated on your progress.

[Nephasth]

If I watched TV with my hands on the front controls of the TV, why would I want to take my hands of the controls to use a remote?

Why use a remote device to select a game on a MAME rig, when I have the controls at my finger tips?

Anybody else think wheels aren't round enough?

[Aceisback]

If I watched TV with my hands on the front controls of the TV, why would I want to take my hands of the controls to use a remote?

Why use a remote device to select a game on a MAME rig, when I have the controls at my finger tips?

Anybody else think wheels aren't round enough?

Once again...Who cares, if you you don't like the idea, move on!

[Le Chuck]

Ace, Sand - I don't get when dissenting opinion became taboo.  I have admittedly not made a "useful contribution" to this thread in any way.  I came here on a lark to watch to fireworks but Nep voiced his informed opinion.  That doesn't mean that opinion negates this project or that it even has to be addressed but shilling out a "bump it on up the road" isn't going to really work in anyone's favor in the long run.  This community has a very long memory and some very impassioned members who have done a lot for the community at large.  MAME would not be able to do many of the things we expect from it w/out Howard's hard work and Nep is one of the preeminent builders on this site.  Some of these folks you are raging against carry the BYOAC community on their backs day in and out.  That doesn't mean you have to take their advice, or lay off a project because they don't see the purpose.  You're not even rolling over because we are naught but words.  So why the vitriol? 

I have burned one bridge to the ground since joining.  X2.  I don't talk to him and he doesn't talk to me.  I made that choice.  How many bridges will you choose to burn and with whom will you be cutting ties?  From the looks of it those bridges run to some of the core knowledge base in the community.  I can't demand your respect and you're free to do as you see fit but I caution you to take pause. 

The above message was brought to you by the coalition of "Lighten up Francis".  The coalition is unaffiliated with the ownership of this website and the opinions herein are the user's own and not be construed as binding, good advice, or anything on the nature.  The above should be taken with a grain of salt and is not to be taken as a suppository.     

[Ond]

I have admittedly not made a "useful contribution" to this thread in any way.

Yeah you did, with that post  .

@ sandheaver Don't hate on Le Chuck, read his stuff, friendly mischief - mixed with serious talent. 

@ Aceisback - this is a forum.  Ideas get discussed, tossed around, debated, turned upside down and criticised.  Hopefully vitriol and personal attacks at a minimum.  Hell, compared to some forums BYOAC is a totally nurturing place (mainly) .

By the sounds of it sandheaver is getting on with it.  Watching with interest.

[Aceisback]

Ace, Sand - I don't get when dissenting opinion became taboo.  I have admittedly not made a "useful contribution" to this thread in any way.  I came here on a lark to watch to fireworks but Nep voiced his informed opinion.  That doesn't mean that opinion negates this project or that it even has to be addressed but shilling out a "bump it on up the road" isn't going to really work in anyone's favor in the long run.  This community has a very long memory and some very impassioned members who have done a lot for the community at large.  MAME would not be able to do many of the things we expect from it w/out Howard's hard work and Nep is one of the preeminent builders on this site.  Some of these folks you are raging against carry the BYOAC community on their backs day in and out.  That doesn't mean you have to take their advice, or lay off a project because they don't see the purpose.  You're not even rolling over because we are naught but words.  So why the vitriol? 

I have burned one bridge to the ground since joining.  X2.  I don't talk to him and he doesn't talk to me.  I made that choice.  How many bridges will you choose to burn and with whom will you be cutting ties?  From the looks of it those bridges run to some of the core knowledge base in the community.  I can't demand your respect and you're free to do as you see fit but I caution you to take pause. 

The above message was brought to you by the coalition of "Lighten up Francis".  The coalition is unaffiliated with the ownership of this website and the opinions herein are the user's own and not be construed as binding, good advice, or anything on the nature.  The above should be taken with a grain of salt and is not to be taken as a suppository.     

Wheres the rage? I'm just stating my opinion that this thread has gotten a bit out of hand, and that I think we should drop the attacks and move on with the project, but like any forum, everyone is going to try and get one last jab in, that's just the nature of these things i guess.
My only question is why is this response directed only towards Sand and myself??? It appears others have been more outspoken in this thread than me...But I already know the answer, I am a newer member with no status here and I accept that because I come here to learn and to help people in a positive way if I am asked a particular question.

[Endprodukt]

English isn't my native language but thanks for letting me know.

[Le Chuck]

My only question is why is this response directed only towards Sand and myself??? It appears others have been more outspoken in this thread than me...But I already know the answer, I am a newer member with no status here and I accept that because I come here to learn and to help people in a positive way if I am asked a particular question.

Nope.  We have lots of members with high post counts who have been around for years that have next to zero status.  We have members who are new who have contributed, shown themselves to be pleasant to deal with, and already command great respect.  I took the time to write a word of caution not because you're a newb and I'm a regular and you need to repect mah authoritai but because I'd like to see all new members ingratiate themselves into the latter group of those I mentioned, those that demonstrate stewardship.   
 

[Malenko]

And post count and time here don't always amount to merit, for example Chadtower has been here forever had has a million posts.

I'll retract my previous assholely posts if you start posting like a normal person. deal?

[Vigo]

My only question is why is this response directed only towards Sand and myself??? It appears others have been more outspoken in this thread than me...But I already know the answer, I am a newer member with no status here and I accept that because I come here to learn and to help people in a positive way if I am asked a particular question.

Ace, in a way you are right. It does have something to do with you two being new, but not in the way you think. Being a new member does means that you usually miss a couple dynamics of this place. The big one is that many of us understand what a huge undertaking any arcade project is in reality. When making a machine that that costs lots of money and takes lots of time, we would rather be completely honest to people up front about their ideas  revolving their machine than lie to them telling them that we think their idea is always great. That hand-holding attitude leads to projects with serious problems and ultimately become unused and unloved in the end. A bad first project usually kills the love of the hobby.

The other is that a new member might not realize what kind of experts we tend to have hanging around here. Honest opinions from experts are not an attack. We simply have seen thousands of ideas and have a feel for what works and what doesn't. Many new members here interpret that is a holier than thou attitude, you two are not the first to feel that way. The ones that stick around see that we are really just trying to help. Hopefully you and Sand will be a part of that crowd.

[yotsuya]

I usually don't get involved in pile-ons, and I've been here long enough that I think most people know that I'm easy going, but the early tone of the OP's posts in this thread rubbed me the wrong way. OP asked for opinions, Neph and Howard, two guys who I respect enough that they would give honest, unsugarcoated feedback, gave it, and in post #5, the OP says "Fine, I get it, you guys hate it, I'm going to do it anyway"- basically, a passive agressive "---fudgesicle--- You and Your Opinion", when none of these guys said anything about "hating" the project, but rather only why they didn't think it was a useful idea. I think Ond hit it on the head- if you're that dead-set on it, do your project first, then solicit feedback on your finished item. Maybe most of us don't see a use for it now, but perhaps a finished, near polished project would change minds. No one "hates" things because they're new or different, but we've evolved to the point that we're not handing out gold stars for every new idea, either.

And I've missed you, Vigo. Always the voice of reason.

I do want to apologize to the OP for calling her a "---Bad words, bad words, whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when saint censors you?---". I thought she was a guy acting like a woman. I didn't realize she WAS a woman.  That's been bugging me.

[brad808]

Hey look a thread about a font end, let's see what this is about ....... Slowly starts backing away.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

[dandro]

Dandro came in around the same time. No one's been harsh with him. We don't treat newbies poorly for the sake of it. You, my friend, came in with this big chip on your shoulder we all could all see from a mile away. Sorry no one is fawning over your idea, but it is what it is.

True and received great feedback as I asked for opinions, accepted input and turned out great product! 

[yotsuya]

Dandro came in around the same time. No one's been harsh with him. We don't treat newbies poorly for the sake of it. You, my friend, came in with this big chip on your shoulder we all could all see from a mile away. Sorry no one is fawning over your idea, but it is what it is.

True and received great feedback as I asked for opinions, accepted input and turned out great product! 

Exactly. It's not all "Here's a newb, let's ---fudgesicle--- with him" around here.