New Republic Flight Trainer

[BadMouth]

Oh, just to clarify I'll still need the relays with the UHID right?  Four of them right (five counting the speeder rumbler)? Those little bastages are crazy expensive it seems.

Oh yeah.  The UHID is 5v USB power.  I doubt your USB ports could handle 5amp bursts.
For the solenoids, you might get away with a cheap little transistor as used in the Aimtrack recoil mods.
It's just a resistor and a transistor.  I complain about various transistors not working in a couple of the threads, but it turned out that I was using the wrong value resistor.   

The rumble motors would probably require something a bit more hefty, or at least a big heatsink. 
I'd use DC to DC solid state relays on them, but I'm no electronics expert.
(I was working my way toward becoming one when hit with longer work days)

[Le Chuck]

Found an okay deal on amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Amico-SSR-40DD-Covered-Solid-5-110V/dp/B009AQNBJW/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1363738811&sr=8-14&keywords=solid+state+relay

DC to DC 40amp max.  I'll be pushing 5amp so that should cut down on the resistance somewhat negating my need for the $6 heatsink?  Can I get a ruling on the field?  BobA or Ken, are you in the house?  $10 a pop isn't exactly a steal but I think it's reasonable to just do that for all the solenoids and shaker motors. 

So, I'm at about $80 in parts on top of what I've already got in... not bad I suppose.  Turns out the original guns will be the cheapest part of this component project   

[ids]

Got home and did some digging. 

The guns have 24vDC motors and solenoids that aren't marked but based on how it is wired I'm assuming that they ran 24v as well.  An internet search revealed that other taito guns have used a 5amp fuse...which I don't have a fuse setup for this rig at the moment so looks like i'll need to cobble one together.  I found this power supply tho I'm not familiar or that comfortable with the vendor.  I still need to hunt down a solid state relay.  A schematic from the original game would be great but I'm coming up with nada. I would like to think that power  supply can feed two solenoids and two motors at once, and hopefully I'll get a compatible rumbler for the speeder to defray costs.  Sound good so far?

I also have started diagraming how I'm going to be wiring everything and I'll put that up for the smarties to stamp off on before I go trying anything.   

Oh, just to clarify I'll still need the relays with the UHID right?  Four of them right (five counting the speeder rumbler)? Those little bastages are crazy expensive it seems.

A solid state relay is very cheap and easy to make.  I made one for use with a solenoid: qbert knocker.  I probably have enough spare parts to make you one as well - not sure what it would cost to mail it out tho.

[Le Chuck]

IDS - do you have enough for five?  Would you charge less than $50 shipped?    Building my own relays isn't something I had considered but I will now 

For the seat rumbler I looked at the high end base rumblers on amazon (OND originally turned me on to them) but I have a secret weapon.  It's a Sonic Boom alarm clock.  Because my wife is hearing impaired we have an alarm that connects to a huge 12v shaker motor.  It goes between the mattress and bed spring.  It shakes the whole bed violently.  This is not the romantic Hotel du Luv vibrating bed, this is the end of the world OMG turn it off I'm up I'm up I'm up experience.  We have extras.  You can check it out here:  http://www.amazon.com/Sonic-Bomb-SS12VW-Shaker-Vibrator/dp/B0055UDZBG/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hpc_5

I figure I'll splice 12v off the computer supply, build the shaker underneath the speeder seat, hook it up to a SSR and jack the whole thing into the UHID easy-peasy.  In short bursts it should provide some nice jostling.  The trick will be insulating it enough so it doesn't rattle around and throw me violently from the speeder. 

[ids]

I'll go see what i got.  Like I said, spare parts, not looking for money, other than recovering postage costs.  I don't do much shipping, so I've no idea how much that would be, but it can't be much - these are small and light.  I assume you're in the US, so maybe it'll cost a few bucks to cross the 49'th.  This circuit, as per the post linked earlier, is triggered from a 5v source.  If your trigger is otherwise, I'm not really sure how to adjust - I had MonMotha work me through the original circuit.  I'm sure we could solve this easily, if it's an issue.

Having a quick browse of that old thread, I see MonMotha mention that the circuit is good to 7 amps, so I think you'd be covered when it comes to current draw.

otoh, if you're so inclined, you could see what it would cost to get the parts (digikey, mouser, etc) and build it yourself.  I just took a quick look at digikey.  The main bits, optoisolator and darlington, are about $1.30 combined.  Even cheaper if you get 10 of each - which might be too much.  Resistors are so cheap as to be slightly above free.  Add a board to solder it all onto, and you're still VERY much less than $10 a pop.  Regardless, my offer stands - I'm not saying all this to back out.  I'll be back with a report on how many I could build with the parts I have lying about...

[yotsuya]

The trick will be insulating it enough so it doesn't rattle around and throw me violently from the speeder.

I'll give you $10 if you film this happening.

[Le Chuck]

I'll go see what i got.  Like I said, spare parts, not looking for money, other than recovering postage costs.  I don't do much shipping, so I've no idea how much that would be, but it can't be much - these are small and light.  I assume you're in the US, so maybe it'll cost a few bucks to cross the 49'th.  This circuit, as per the post linked earlier, is triggered from a 5v source.  If your trigger is otherwise, I'm not really sure how to adjust - I had MonMotha work me through the original circuit.  I'm sure we could solve this easily, if it's an issue.

Having a quick browse of that old thread, I see MonMotha mention that the circuit is good to 7 amps, so I think you'd be covered when it comes to current draw.

otoh, if you're so inclined, you could see what it would cost to get the parts (digikey, mouser, etc) and build it yourself.  I just took a quick look at digikey.  The main bits, optoisolator and darlington, are about $1.30 combined.  Even cheaper if you get 10 of each - which might be too much.  Resistors are so cheap as to be slightly above free.  Add a board to solder it all onto, and you're still VERY much less than $10 a pop.  Regardless, my offer stands - I'm not saying all this to back out.  I'll be back with a report on how many I could build with the parts I have lying about...

Take a gander at what you've got.  The q-bert relay looks like it will serve my purposes and building your own (or having them built by another member) is awesome.  Have you had any heat issues with yours at all?  I'm in AL, USA for an idea about shipping, which isn't an issue for me.  I'm also happy to compensate if you're willing to put them together if you want to get at me offline.  Either that or a detailed parts list and some idiot proof destructions.  Sure I build some swell stuff but 90% I have no idea what I'm doing before I get into it.  That's what keeps me coming back I suppose.  If I knew what an assache this all was each time I'd probably stay home 

The trick will be insulating it enough so it doesn't rattle around and throw me violently from the speeder.

I'll give you $10 if you film this happening.

Don't know whether I should take the money or... ah come'on, who're we kidding.  Of course I'm gonna take the money!

[griffindodd]

I know nothing about relays but couldn't you use contactors like people use in v pins? Aren't they high voltage control switches? I got 8 24v ones on eBay for $35 shipped

[ids]

I dont know anything about contactors (beyond the wiki article i just read).  Sounds like they are just relays with specific properties.  Can their coils be driven from a UHID/LEDWiz?  (I asume they can, based on usage in vpins)

I've had no heat issues with the qbert knocker - it's a very brief on time (fraction of a second), and triggers infrequently.  Doesnt get warm at all.  IIRC from earlier threads, heat is only an issue where on-time is longer, and power draw higher - and then you just apply a heat sink and all is well.  I think this would only be an issue if you run that shaker motor continuously for a stretch.  But even then, I'd just monitor the heat of the tip107 and see if there is reason to be concerned.

I've checked my cache of parts: I have an abundance of optoisolators, perf board, but only 3 TIP107's.  I have various other transistors which might be suitable as replacements, I'll have to research this.

If you're driving these with UHID outputs (or LEDWiz or similar), then we're good.  Note that the UHID has a few ports with integrated resistors, so you should probably not use those.


EDIT:  I beleive some of the other transistors I have will do the trick

[Le Chuck]

I dont know anything about contactors (beyond the wiki article i just read).  Sounds like they are just relays with specific properties.  Can their coils be driven from a UHID/LEDWiz?  (I asume they can, based on usage in vpins)

I've had no heat issues with the qbert knocker - it's a very brief on time (fraction of a second), and triggers infrequently.  Doesnt get warm at all.  IIRC from earlier threads, heat is only an issue where on-time is longer, and power draw higher - and then you just apply a heat sink and all is well.  I think this would only be an issue if you run that shaker motor continuously for a stretch.  But even then, I'd just monitor the heat of the tip107 and see if there is reason to be concerned.

I've checked my cache of parts: I have an abundance of optoisolators, perf board, but only 3 TIP107's.  I have various other transistors which might be suitable as replacements, I'll have to research this.

If you're driving these with UHID outputs (or LEDWiz or similar), then we're good.  Note that the UHID has a few ports with integrated resistors, so you should probably not use those.

I am driving with the UHID and I'm tracking here are 9 available pins for me to fire from but I'll figure all that when I'm diagramming.  Let me know what you discover, I'm getting excited about this. 

I know nothing about relays but couldn't you use contactors like people use in v pins? Aren't they high voltage control switches? I got 8 24v ones on eBay for $35 shipped

Griff, I thought the contactors were just used to simulate the sound of the solenoids firing as they have an audible "thunk" when activated in vpins?  The Solid States are noiseless.  A contactor is just a mechanical type of relay AFAIK.  The "thunk" is a killer for me, especially with gun recoil it'd be distracting I imagine.  Nevertheless, link to what you got? 

[ids]

I have a pile of 33N10's, TIP121's and STP12PF06's in addition to the TIP107's.  I could make at least 10 SSR's at this point - limited only by the number of optocouplers i have.  I can also put on some terminal blocks for ease of use

[ids]

Shipping costs, not surprisingly, relate closely to size and weight.  If I can pack them in a padded envelope, and they don't weight too much, then we're talking ~$4-8.  If it gets over ~1lb, the price jumps quite a bit (>$15).  I'll put one together and weight it (or just the parts pre-soldering), to get a better idea where this stands.  Of course, if 5 of them breaks the 1lb barrier, i could just send two padded envelopes at the $4 price point, instead of one >$15.

[Le Chuck]

Shipping costs, not surprisingly, relate closely to size and weight.  If I can pack them in a padded envelope, and they don't weight too much, then we're talking ~$4-8.  If it gets over ~1lb, the price jumps quite a bit (>$15).  I'll put one together and weight it (or just the parts pre-soldering), to get a better idea where this stands.  Of course, if 5 of them breaks the 1lb barrier, i could just send two padded envelopes at the $4 price point, instead of one >$15.

Awesome man  Just let me know.  I really appreciate this!

--
Okay, I had a spare hour at work today so I did my diagram for the UHID.  Please sharpshoot maliciously, I'd like to get it right on paper before I start working in cable.  I've tossed the single axis brake as it isn't necessary and the second throttle isn't shown because that is only for SW Racer and will be wired to the arcade boards.  The 5v terminals on the bottom are all PC controlled LED outs so that way they can be called by MAMEhooker.  As is it looks like I have enough inputs to do two joys, 7 player buttons each, and more admin buttons than I know what to do with.  That being the case I probably won't need a separate encoder on the project which gets me down to four devices. 

Oh, anybody know if a mouse counts as two of the 8 analog axes available in Win?  I don't think it does but if so that will really jack with my plans. 

[ids]

As per UHID  Specs:

Pins on J1, J2 and J3 have integral resistors

The SSR's I was going to build would have included the same resistor on their input side.  However, it's probably easier to use your UHID circuit as is, and leave out the resistor from the SSR, rather than switch pins.  It's one less component to be soldered
Assuming black is gnd and red is +V, you may have to swap them around for these SSRs - they switch the positive side.

[Le Chuck]

As per UHID  Specs:

Pins on J1, J2 and J3 have integral resistors

The SSR's I was going to build would have included the same resistor on their input side.  However, it's probably easier to use your UHID circuit as is, and leave out the resistor from the SSR, rather than switch pins.  It's one less component to be soldered
Assuming black is gnd and red is +V, you may have to swap them around for these SSRs - they switch the positive side.

Swap from the power supplies to the shakers and recoils you mean?  If so no problem, that's an easy switch.   

[Nephasth]

Oh, anybody know if a mouse counts as two of the 8 analog axes available in Win?  I don't think it does but if so that will really jack with my plans. 

Sure does. Up, down; left, right. X and Y.

[Le Chuck]

Oh, anybody know if a mouse counts as two of the 8 analog axes available in Win?  I don't think it does but if so that will really jack with my plans. 

Sure does. Up, down; left, right. X and Y.

   I thought it polled differently than gamepad axes.   

I do not want to give up my high-low spinner.  Any recommendations for remediation? 

[Nephasth]

Oh, anybody know if a mouse counts as two of the 8 analog axes available in Win?  I don't think it does but if so that will really jack with my plans. 

Sure does. Up, down; left, right. X and Y.

Any recommendations for remediation?

2 UHIDs.

Edit. Read that wrong... I don't know jack about Windows' limitations on analog axes...

[Le Chuck]

Oh, anybody know if a mouse counts as two of the 8 analog axes available in Win?  I don't think it does but if so that will really jack with my plans. 

Sure does. Up, down; left, right. X and Y.

Any recommendations for remediation?

2 UHIDs.

Edit. Read that wrong... I don't know jack about Windows' limitations on analog axes...

 

[Nephasth]

From the UHID page:

Control counts which can be configured:

Total 50 connection pins.

Max 8 analog axes on 50 possible pins (Windows limitation)
Max 32 Gamepad buttons on 50 possible pins (Windows limitation)
Max 8 Quadrature mouse devices on 16 possible pins out of the 50.
Max 3 Quadrature mouse axes (X, Y and Z, Windows limitation)
Max 50 keyboard keys on 50 possible pins.
Max 16 LEDs in any combination of PC or U-HID controlled. (USB 500 mA current limitation).
Max 50 low-current output drivers.

Looks like mouse (quatrature) devices don't count towards analog axes... Hook it all up on the bench and see what happens.

[Nephasth]

Then there's this: http://www.microsoft.com/multipoint/mouse-sdk/developer.aspx

Says up to 25 usb mice can be used on one machine.

Surely there's a way to do what you need to.

[Le Chuck]

Looks like it.  Thanks Nep 

I will wait to do bench testing for a bit (still collecting some needed components).  In the mean time I've got lots more building to do, I need to learn how to use MAMEhooker, and one of my guns came in so I can start ripping that thing apart.  Lots todo!

[BC_Jeffro]

nice 

[kahlid74]

Well, somehow I remember your original comments about doing this and then missed this thread.  Great work man, keep it up.

You should team up with the Vulture Pod guys.  You two could make things out of MDF that would make Vanilla Ice weep with joy.

[griffindodd]

So hang on a second, if R2 is the control panel, where are you keeping his Joystick and how are you supposed to grab hold of it?

[dandro]

So hang on a second, if R2 is the control panel, where are you keeping his Joystick and how are you supposed to grab hold of it?

I am thinking this..

[Ond]

I showed my wife the image of your DIY R2D2, her response was OMG!  She's sharing that image with all her Uni crowd as an example of good design (from a DIY perspective).  My son who is a total Star Wars nut can name the owners of most of those weapons by sight  .

[BobA]

Found an okay deal on amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Amico-SSR-40DD-Covered-Solid-5-110V/dp/B009AQNBJW/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1363738811&sr=8-14&keywords=solid+state+relay

DC to DC 40amp max.  I'll be pushing 5amp so that should cut down on the resistance somewhat negating my need for the $6 heatsink?  Can I get a ruling on the field?  BobA or Ken, are you in the house?  $10 a pop isn't exactly a steal but I think it's reasonable to just do that for all the solenoids and shaker motors. 

So, I'm at about $80 in parts on top of what I've already got in... not bad I suppose.  Turns out the original guns will be the cheapest part of this component project   

Not sure how you are coming on having SSR made but as a late answer 4 - 5 Amps is about the limit that an SSR can do with only ambient air to cool.  If however you mount an SSR on an aluminum plate or chassis to use as a heat sink you can push higher amps without a separate heat sink.

If you are having SSR fabricated remember to heat sink the SCR or Triac.

Sorry about the late comment but only just got around to catching up on this thread.

and WOW WOW WOW

[ark_ader]

Jeepers you don't mess about.

I need to take a page out of your book.

Awesome work Le Chuck!   

[Le Chuck]

Well, somehow I remember your original comments about doing this and then missed this thread.  Great work man, keep it up.

You should team up with the Vulture Pod guys.  You two could make things out of MDF that would make Vanilla Ice weep with joy.

Thanks dude, I googled Vulture Pods and I gotta tell ya, those are pretty cool.  I'm not 100% sure what they do but I'm 90% sure that I want to build one in the garage 

So hang on a second, if R2 is the control panel, where are you keeping his Joystick and how are you supposed to grab hold of it?

Bend over and I'll show ya...wait...dammit!

I am thinking this..

Oddly not far from the truth.  More to follow.   

I showed my wife the image of your DIY R2D2, her response was OMG!  She's sharing that image with all her Uni crowd as an example of good design (from a DIY perspective).  My son who is a total Star Wars nut can name the owners of most of those weapons by sight  .

Wow, I'm flattered.  Tell her thanks.  If she wants to see some ground breaking stuff she should check out JoyMonkey's R2 builds (over on astromech.net).  He is doing stuff with R2 that will make your head spin, much less R2's. 

Not sure how you are coming on having SSR made but as a late answer 4 - 5 Amps is about the limit that an SSR can do with only ambient air to cool.  If however you mount an SSR on an aluminum plate or chassis to use as a heat sink you can push higher amps without a separate heat sink.

If you are having SSR fabricated remember to heat sink the SCR or Triac.

Sorry about the late comment but only just got around to catching up on this thread.

and WOW WOW WOW

Bob, thanks.  Always nice to get some feedback from a subject matter expert.  5 amp is the max I'll be pushing and I'll be doing some bench testing to keep an eye on the temp.  If necessary heatsinks should be an easy retrofit and I can position a fan to blow across the boards as well.  I take it all my other squiggly lines in the wire diagram look okay?  Thanks!

Jeepers you don't mess about.

I need to take a page out of your book.

Awesome work Le Chuck!   

 

--

My other gun game in so now I have the pair.  Mounting will be a tricky but it looks like it'll be doable and I like these much better than the stock one.  Hopefully tomorrow and Sunday I'll get some cuts made towards the CP - or at least the trial CP.  The CP will have a bit of a sculptural element to it so we'll have to see how it feels. 

[ids]

SSR's in progress, UHID inputs + gnd on right

[Le Chuck]

SSR's in progress, UHID inputs + gnd on right

Awesome!        

[caliliving714]

It's looking great...

Have you checked out http://www.x-simulator.de/? They have some great motion simulator builds there.
Tronicgr there has built a couple Motion controlers and H-bridges. http://www.x-simulator.de/wiki/AVR_Motion_Controller_%28AMC%29_by_Tronicgr and here http://www.x-simulator.de/wiki/Dual_Mosfet_H-bridge_by_Tronicgr

Might be worth checking out for your build.

Can't wait to see this thing running.

[rockyrocket]

Looks great so far!.
Have you thought about zebs board for relays?, seems perfect to me...
http://www.vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=18203
I use one of the original hi-power boards in my pin cab to power contactors and a knocker at 24v,but it can work up to 48v
Contactors unfortunately lag a bit when used as relays as noticed by people running flipper buttons through them to an ipac ect.
The input signal can pull either hi or low so works with a encoder or  arduino.

Also congrats on the paint finish on R2`s legs.

[floriske.nl]

It's looking great...

Have you checked out http://www.x-simulator.de/? They have some great motion simulator builds there.
Tronicgr there has built a couple Motion controlers and H-bridges. http://www.x-simulator.de/wiki/AVR_Motion_Controller_%28AMC%29_by_Tronicgr and here http://www.x-simulator.de/wiki/Dual_Mosfet_H-bridge_by_Tronicgr

Might be worth checking out for your build.

Can't wait to see this thing running.

It's better to look at http://www.x-sim.de instead

The x-sim team split up a while back because of differences in opinions about commercial intentions and other stuff. The actual programmer of the software (Sirnoname) had to set up a new community because of this and that is x-sim.de. I know this because I helped him setup the new website. Members like tronicgr are no longer active on the old community page and most info in the wiki is outdated.

Ontopic: great work so far! I'm lurking for progress ;-)

[dandro]

dammit,.. less commission work and more building! 

[TeamTEOR]

OMG, I have missed a lot in this thread!!!!!! I am so going to need to follow this! BTW, are you a 501st member?

[lordnacho]

Switched themes just so I could bookmark.  I missed the whole R2 part.  Just awesome.
How much is he gonna weigh?

[Maximus]

I find your lack of building disturbing.

[Le Chuck]

I find your lack of building disturbing.

Oh, I'm building...just all the wrong things 

Who has two thumbs and just spent a day off building a cat jungle gym at the wife's directing?  This guy!

Hopefully I'll be back on track shortly but I don't want to get hopes and dreams up

Switched themes just so I could bookmark.  I missed the whole R2 part.  Just awesome.
How much is he gonna weigh?

Thanks man, R2 should come in under a hundred once fully loaded.  He's about 50 in his current state. 

OMG, I have missed a lot in this thread!!!!!! I am so going to need to follow this! BTW, are you a 501st member?

No, I have some good friends that are in the Phoenix and Atlanta area tho.  I have aspirations of getting a suit together but I'm currently preoccupied.  Which branch are you?

dammit,.. less commission work and more building! 

Heh, might have a few more lined up for later in the year.

Floriske.nl, caliliving714, rockyrocket - thanks for the links guys.  I need to finalize the extent of force feedback I'm willing to commit to - those links give me a lot to go on.