First Machine/ Johnny Nero into MAME

[Woodstock]

First off..Thanks for having this place everyone.. it really helps a newcomer like myself get ideas.

Here is my intro project into everything MAME (Cool machine name still needed).

I had thought about building a machine myself.. due to time, and other factors..I decided it would be best to get a machine, used. I started to look around for the best machine I could find. I had been calling the few arcades left.. trying to score a deal on something used. It was turning up fruitless. Everyone just kind of gave me the runaround.. and I felt like I was never going to own a used machine. I felt like I might as well go start pricing MDF, and I did. But then.. as a last ditch effort.. I called a place about 40 miles from me. They specialize in Amusement Coin-Op Games and other things. To my surprise .. the guy on the other end was VERY nice, and understanding about what I was wanting to do. He said .. "let me check in our warehouse of OVER 300 machines, and Ill get back with you shortly"

Fair enough.

So not 15 minutes later he calls back.. and gives me 2 options: A : a Johnny Nero Action Hero machine, with no monitor.. or 2 Atomiswave machines (which were kind of busted up.) So we started measuring things.. and we work decide the Johnny Nero machine would be ideal. So .. we did some last minute garage cleaning.. and made a place for it. Then.. it was off it get it, and bring it back.

So.. here I am now! 

Ive got a 27inch I am planning on putting in there. Ill have to get some pics of it tonight. The only fault with the TV is .. it does not come back on after a power loss.. even with the power switch held down. But I will get around that. As for my control panel.. its going to be a 2 player setup.. 2 joys, 12 joy buttons, a trackball, and probably a few more buttons.. just not sure where yet.

I am fairly new to all of this but, I do know some things.. like not to touch the inside of the CRT without discharging.. and things like that.  So anyway... ill quiet my ramblings.. Here are some pics!

[Woodstock]

Patience got the best of me today and I had to go get some MDF from Lowes for the control panel.  Designing tonight.. and cutting tomorrow! Im a little concerned as to cutting into the cab.. but it may have to be done to make room for the joy's.  Ill also be looking around tonight at joys, and buttons. Pics of the TV and control panel woodworking come tomorrow!  Any questions or comments? Any tips are appreciated!

[Erik]

  I had to look up Johnny Nero.  Never seen that one

[drventure]

Good score. Looks like a shooting game, built in gun holders FTW!

Be sure to slap a couple AIMTraks in there!

[eds1275]

Judging by pictures, that machine looks pretty good as far as the condition it's in... how much did you pay, or did he give it to your for free?

[Woodstock]

Hey again! Sorry it took longer than I thought to follow up. Im back now though.

First off.. some replies..

Good score. Looks like a shooting game, built in gun holders FTW!

Be sure to slap a couple AIMTraks in there!

Sadly I don't think the current control panel will accommodate a wide enough area for 2 players comfortably. But see below

Judging by pictures, that machine looks pretty good as far as the condition it's in... how much did you pay, or did he give it to your for free?

Without going into much detail.. it was not free.. maybe I will get in well enough with them sometime to get a free machine.. but lets just say this one was well more than 100$.  But I am 100% satisfied with it. I saved me alot of cutting time, and it is a really well built machine. They even told me they had it specially manufactured from a company in Missouri or Mississippi .. I cant remember which. It also has the over under coin mech that is working as well... and the glass on the front.. I feel like I got a fair deal for what I paid.


NOW.. ON TO THE UPDATES!

First off.. Ill admit it.. I ruined 2 control panels to bad cuts..  the first one was.. I needed 2 notches in the board due to the edge of the machine. The first mess up was a wrong placement for notches.. dum mistake.. but it was made.. and I had plenty of MDF. 2nd mess up was due to the angled cut that had to be made.. I just flat out didn't do it right.. But I got wise older neighbor to show me how.. and now I know.   .  So now the rough cut of the top of the control panel is done. Also.. as DrVenture pointed out.. there are 2 gun holsters.. but since I need that space for my controls.. they will have to be covered.    I didn't get a pic of the tv yet..(Tomorrow.. I promise! ) but I have gutted the machine of the Jamma connector, and some extra wiring that will just be in the way. I also took the old monitor steel plates out.. they would have gotten in the way of the tv. Ill be screwing in the mount for the tv tomorrow.. then getting serious about button layouts.. time to fire up the printer!  Ill be using the slagcoin website for my button layouts.  More to come soon!  Thanks for the comments and questions!

[Woodstock]

UPDATE TIME!

Sorry it took so long, but ive been really swamped this week/end. Its spring.. and that means more work for me!

Anyway.. I have spent my extra time this week fitting the tv, putting on casters, mounting and sawing various peices.. although none on the control panel yet. I was particularly interested in getting the tv mounted .. which took some creative thinking.. There was a square wood frame that the bezel sits against.. that was not letting the tv go in all the way.. So I sawed that enough so the tv would fit where it was supposed to.. and then to my surprise... the back of the case was about an inch too much for the back to fit on properly. So I got to thinking... we might have a dremel... sure enough.. we did.. So I took a bit from the dremel.. and in pulse like fashion, I cut out a notch so I would have that extra clearance. Of course I did this while the BACK OF THE TV was off. I put the tv back in.. and bam.. perfect .. back goes on.. and the back of the tube is not reaching out of the back of the exposed area too much. Before doing all the tv work though.. I put on some 3inch swivel casters with brakes... I set them in a little bit.. so I had enough room to bolt them inside. They work great. Tonight.. I put the board from the pc in.. and hooked everything up, just to see how everything is going to come together. This week I am probably going to purchase the controls. Here are some pics!

The clearance on the cut tv case, and the back of the machine. (Dont ask why its so small.. I uploaded it at the same size as the rest..   )


Back of the tv


Front view


Another front view


Brand of tv


The casters on the bottom


Inside.. rough version.. it wont be this messy when I am 100% done


Before the tv was put in the machine.. I had to test it.. so here was a test game. Of course its much better in person.

[emphatic]

Nice! 

[Woodstock]

Nice!  

Thanks emphatic!  

I tried a couple games out last night..  I am using an s-output from the pc card, to a regular video in for now... I tried getting the s-video input to work on the tv.. but its not listed with channel up or down... but the component is. I tested out Asteroids.. and I could hardly tell that I was shooting anything.. you couldn't really see the laser when I hit fire.  Other games like Street Fighter look pretty good.  I guess what im getting at... is there any way to make this look more authentic?  Ive tried it on my flat panel and it looks really decent (Asteroids).  Also.. whats the best resolution for a tv put in a machine? Thanks for the views and advice!  

[thatpurplestuff]

In regards to Asteroids not looking very good, I'm guessing it's an issue of MAME trying to emulate the vector graphics.  Reading another post on this forum had the following advice for this issue:

Put the following information into the MAME vector.ini file.

brightness 1.0
contrast 2.0
gamma 3.0

This should make the contrast of the vector graphics and the black background more stark and will hopefully help the visibility issues you are having.  Also, the lower the screen resolution you are running at = the more raster issues you will have with vector-based games.  Higher resolutions should theoretically reduce these issues.

Here is the thread I referred to -> http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=92176.0

[Woodstock]

Thanks for that link.. maybe ill take some before and after pictures here in a bit and show what Im seeing. That did seem to help the visibility of most things.. but now its just the small things I cant see...stars.. and my shot after I hit fire... or things like the ufo's shot coming at me.  Also... after putting those in the mame.ini file... it screws up the colors of other games... everything looks all pastel. Like I said.. ill take some pics in a few here and show you what im seeing.  Also.. I might be a little confused.. because you say..

Also, the lower the screen resolution you are running at = the more raster issues you will have with vector-based games.  

But then you say..

Higher resolutions should theoretically reduce these issues.

Then wouldn't a higher resolution be better for vector based games?  Maybe I am misunderstanding.

[thatpurplestuff]

Yeah I was a bit unclear in my post.  From what I've read, the higher resolution your display is running at the better the vector graphics will look (along with tweaking the vector settings in vector.ini to your liking).

In regards to non-vector games being pastel and having generally messed up color, I'm guessing that is because you pasted the color change settings in mame.ini instead of vector.ini.  Rather than only applying those settings when a vector game is loaded, it is applying those color changes on all games.

There are people in this thread that explained it much better than myself -> http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=91686.0

[Woodstock]

Ok great! Thanks for that link also. I know where the MAME ini is located... but the vector.ini, I am not sure about. Sorry.. as stated in the first post.. this is my first machine.. and Im new to this stuff.

[thatpurplestuff]

You can actually just create vector.ini in your ini folder and whatever you put in it will apply to all vector games.  Adding the brightness, contrast, and gamma settings (and any other settings you wish to change for that matter) to that file will allow you to control the way that MAME handles vector files... any settings that you don't specify within the vector.ini file will be read from mame.ini.

Using Asteroids as an example, MAME gives priority to asteroids.ini, then vector.ini if it still needs settings info, then mame.ini if it still needs settings info.

I'm not the greatest at explaining this so I'm not sure if I'm actually helping or not.. haha.  The user "u_rebelscum" did a much better job of explaining how MAME accesses ini files in that last thread that I posted.

[Woodstock]

Its probably about now in this thread that my total noob'ness comes out. First.. I go in the INI folder.. and I make a new notepad file. I put down all of the options I need in there.. and save it as "vector.ini". I go back into MAME to test.. and its like its not reading. Here's how I have it set up in the "vector.ini" file:


#
# CORE VECTOR OPTIONS
#
antialias                1
beam                    2.0
flicker                   0
brightness             1.0
contrast               2.0
gamma                 2.0
_____________________________________

That is how I put everything in the file. Its doesn't have an INI icon either.. like the mame.ini file. 

[Encryptor]

That is how I put everything in the file. Its doesn't have an INI icon either.. like the mame.ini file. 

It sounds like it's not actually naming it to .ini. Do you have Windows Explorer set to display known file extensions? If not the file you created is probably actually named vector.ini.txt instead of vector.ini.

Encryptor

[Woodstock]

Ha!  That's exactly what it was Encryptor! Soon as I unchecked the setting it worked. Don't know why I didn't think about that. I took some pics to try to compare before and after.. but I found my camera was picking the dull screen really vividly..So I'm just going on record as saying that, those 2 threads posted and the help Ive been given thus far has made a big difference in the vector game play on my tv. My Asteroids ship's fire is completely visible now, as are the stars in Star Wars. Thanks a lot for your help guys!

So moving on.. Ive checked out Groovy Game Gear, and some other sites for my joys/buttons/controller, and am just not sure where to go. What we have decided:

2 joys -  4 and/or 8 way.
22-24 buttons - Only around 4 or 5 will be led lit.
1 Trackball

No spinner for now.. gotta conserve a little bit. Although ill probably bean myself afterward for not getting one. Im concerned about trackball mounting in my mind right now though.  I don't really want any bolts coming through the surface.. but want the most available trackball area.

I like this design for a trackball, kind of.. but it doesn't look like it leaves much room to roll.

[The Habbler]

I see a lot of fingers smashing into that spinner if the ball was put in that low.

[Woodstock]

I see a lot of fingers smashing into that spinner if the ball was put in that low.

Yeah that's not what I had in mind. Its just an example for the kind of trackball mounting I was looking for, minus everything else.

I am still not 100% sure where to go as far as controls.. GGG has the cheapest Happ Competition sticks for around 9 bucks. But just because its cheap.. doesn't make good. I am going to start measuring the rest of the CP box soon so I can get it finished up.. but id like to get my controls soon, so I can try some test mounting. I got the speaker panel down also.. so I can make a new one to put in an additional speaker.

[emphatic]

Also, component video is WAY better than S-video.

[Woodstock]

Also, component video is WAY better than S-video.

I have read that also. So pretty much I should just get a S-video to Component adapter?  Or would this not be the best way?
My video card has an option for: VGA, S-Video, and a DVI output.

Also.. I know I'm not at the end of my 1st project yet... but Id really like to thank those who have helped me so far. It really makes a difference to a new person like myself to have great people who know what they are doing with this stuff, helping me out. Thanks so much!

[Woodstock]

Ok.. Ive decided to go with the Happ Competition sticks.. I guess I can deal with the 8 way only and get a better stick at a later time. Now my issue is.. knowing enough to get the right encoder for everything im wanting to do.
I looked and found this.. http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=76_81&products_id=306   The LED-Wiz+ GP.  Since I will be lighting a few of my buttons I will need something like this right?  Also.. is says it has 16 inputs... but an 8 way joy would take 8 different places on that board right? I don't know if the 16 inputs would be enough if that's the case.  Should I be looking at something else for my encoders?  I-Pac maybe? .. What I'm asking I guess is... is there a encoder that does everything? (Lights, trackball, joys, and buttons)  Or do I have to buy multiple encoders?  What would be the best way?  

[Encryptor]

No that's not right. An 8-way joystick uses 4 inputs.

Encryptor

[drventure]

Encryptor's right. An 8way joystick has 4 switches (and hence 4 inputs) just like a 4 way, it's just that the two sticks have different "restrictions" that prevent them from moving in certain ways.

For an 8 way, there's no restriction, and you can engage 2 switches at a time, say, up and left.

In a 4 way, the movement of the stick is restricted such that you can only engage 1 switch at a time, either up, down, left or right but never more than 1 simultaneously.

[Woodstock]

Ahhh! I see! Thanks for that clarification! I could have (and should have) checked the bottom of the 8 way sticks to see that they only had 4 inputs.. I don't know why that didn't connect in my mind. So what would you guys recommend in terms of a good interface/encoder? I know some people have personal preferences.. just wondering what would best suit my needs..  from the places Ive looked.. it looks like I may have to get something like the KeyWiz, and then for lighting.. the LED-Wiz, and then OptiPac for trackball?    If I can get all in one, id rather do it that way. Just not seeing anything that looks like it would do all, and have enough outputs. Im going to read up today to find the best way to get Component video from my PC, so I can buy the proper adapter. I want things looking the best they can.

[eds1275]

I like this design for a trackball, kind of.. but it doesn't look like it leaves much room to roll.

That's one reason that I decided to put my spinner on the front of the machine. Specifically to make more room for the trackball! Then I rethought about it and was further excited by the fact that the Groovy Game Gear spinner has a steering whell you can mount onto it. See my render:



Other ways I saved space:

• u360s for my joys [not everyone's all-in-wonder solution for 2/4/8 analogue], but I've got my mind set on a clean panel with hopefully a minimum of fuss.
• gun holsters on the lower panel of the machine

[Woodstock]

Yeah, I will not be mounting my spinner (when I get one) anywhere around the trackball. I like your point on the steering wheel options for the spinner also. I saw those.. pretty cool. Thats also a sweet design for a Spinal Tap machine. 

[emphatic]

That's one reason that I decided to put my spinner on the front of the machine.

That's a great idea! I have a Turbotwist2 that's been boxed since I got it because I can't seem to find a good spot for it. I'm gonna have a look at my small arcade stick now, perhaps I can use it there. Sorry if this is off topic.

[Woodstock]

That's a great idea! I have a Turbotwist2 that's been boxed since I got it because I can't seem to find a good spot for it. I'm gonna have a look at my small arcade stick now, perhaps I can use it there. Sorry if this is off topic.

ITS OFF TOPIC DAMN IT.. THIS SHALL NOT BE ALLOWED        

LOL.. Just kiddin guys.. anything you guys have useful to post, I am down for! I like learning about different options, and things I can do to make my first machine more user friendly. So don't ever worry about thinking anything is off topic. I don't mind at all.

I have decided mostly, what I am about to order on Friday.. here we go (All of this is from GGG)

1 - Groovy 3inch Trackball
2 - Happ Competition Joys
22 - Happ Pushbuttons
1 - KeyWiz / GPWiz (not decided on which would be better.. although I think im leaning twards the GPWiz)
1- OptiWiz / No solder.
1- Wiring for up to 30 switches.

I don't think Ill be able to get my lighting encoder this time.. but ill be ordering it soon.   With that being said... does this sound like everything I need to you guys? 

[Woodstock]

Ok!  I have ordered my controls. I think I ordered most everything needed.  Instead of the Groovy 3 inch TB, I went ahead and ordered the Electric Ice TB. I think it'll look a little nicer than the standard one. I have yet to order the LEDWiz.. but I will In a week or 2.  So while I wait for the controls and everything to get here.. Ive been thinking about how I want the control panel to look.  I would like some kind of art with a plexi cover.. but I don't know jack about image software. I have read around a little, and people say that for good vector artwork, they use Inkscape.  So Ive downloaded it, but I'm not real sure on what I'm doing with it. Ive also read its good to get the artwork done before the panel is cut for controls. Does anyone have any tips on how to use Inkscape for my control panel artwork? 

[Woodstock]

One thing I am finding a lot of around here are 404's.    It really sucks when you are wanting to read some useful information, or find something.. and 90% of what you come across is dead. Anyway.. im learning a little bit of Inkscape day by day, but ive ran into an issue.  I have found what I think would be some nice art for my control panel.  Take a look!



The cool thing about this.. its a vector image.

The problem I am having.. I download the AI file from the website.. and open it with Inkscape, and it looks like this..



So I have no idea what to do now.  Any ideas?

[eds1275]

push buttons!

[Woodstock]

push buttons!

Really? That's the answer?  "Push buttons"?  Why do the files look so different? Shouldn't it look the same as the one I posted above?  I exported the file as a PNG.  And all the colors are gone. I will add push buttons later when I figure out how to get it to export as the correct color.. until then.. whats the use?

[eds1275]

push buttons!

Really? That's the answer?  "Push buttons"?  Why do the files look so different? Shouldn't it look the same as the one I posted above?  I exported the file as a PNG.  And all the colors are gone. I will add push buttons later when I figure out how to get it to export as the correct color.. until then.. whats the use?

No seriously I meant push buttons in your image editing software, I have no clue and was joking.

I am no wizard with that stuff, but it looks to me like the big spheres in the lower pic are supposed to be light sources but turned up wrong in inkscape. Maybe you need to update your version of Inkscape or try changing the properties of the spheres around a bit.

[yotsuya]

If I had access to the original file, I'd be happy to open it in Illustrator CS5.

[Woodstock]

I am no wizard with that stuff, but it looks to me like the big spheres in the lower pic are supposed to be light sources but turned up wrong in inkscape. Maybe you need to update your version of Inkscape or try changing the properties of the spheres around a bit.

That's what I thought when It came out this way also... the big spheres are globs of light in the background. Also.. I just downloaded this version of Inkscape a week ago... So unless they are as bad with updates as Adobe Flash.. I should have the latest version... but if they update their software as much as Adobe does Flash.. then you are right..I probably need a new version. Ive also tried changing the color of spheres but it does nothing.. I really don't get it. You cant drag each individual sphere in Inkscape.. its the whole group of spheres that move.

If I had access to the original file, I'd be happy to open it in Illustrator CS5.

Ahh!  But you do!   Its right here  http://vector4free.com/vectors/id/510    just hit free download.. and its the AI file There are more vector images on that site.. but I thought this one would make the best CPO out of what I saw there.


Also an added note. Im waiting on GGG.. I sent my order in on sunday..there was an issue with the address on the card they said. It didn't match the shipping address. They let me know this tuesday, and asked me to add the shipping address to the card. Ive never been asked to do this in the almost 20 years we have had the card. I told them my situation, and asked them to get back with me before the end of the day yesterday.. they did not. They finally emailed me back this morning.. asking me.. again to call the credit card company and add the shipping address.  So to put it bluntly.. my controls are still sitting at GGG headquarters. That's nice. Guess Ill be calling the damn card company today. I could have ordered off Ebay with less hassle.

EDIT:  I think we have figured out the shipping issues, and my controls should be on the way soon. I appreciate the patience from the people over at GGG, as they were just wanting to be very secure, and protect their business. I understand this completely. While its true Ebay might have been less hassle..the products may not have been on par with that of GGG. Again.. thanks over there to you guys at GGG for being patient with me and everything. I really appreciate it.

[Erik]

I get the same results in inkscape 0.48 

[Woodstock]

I get the same results in inkscape 0.48 

Yeah I'm using the same version. At least I know its not just me though! Maybe Yotsuya will drop back in with what he finds in AI CS5. I guess it could turn out that its just a bad image. In which case, ill continue looking for a decent one to use. I have seen some CPO images that look neon-ish. I like those, but the panel is not suitable for the button layouts ill be using. I guess I could trace it, and modify it.. but again.. I'm new to this kind of thing. I can use Paint pretty well though.. LOL . Id like to teach myself to learn image software, and probably should have before delving into my own machine. But .. I'm here now, so I have to make the best of what I can do. For the future though.. Ill make sure to plan more in advance.

[yotsuya]

It opened just fine for me in Illustrator CS5 right now. It scales and everything.

[Woodstock]

It opened just fine for me in Illustrator CS5 right now. It scales and everything.

Hmm.. well.. I guess that means AI files aren't compatible with Inkscape? If they are.. there must be a setting I'm not using correctly or something. I guess ill try and get a copy of CS5. Thanks for letting me know the image was good yotsuya!