Problem neighbours!

[jimmy2x2x]

Does anyone else experience difficulty with their neighbours when trying to work on a project?

For example my neighbours, Dennis and Paula are a nice enough retired couple, but they want the street to be like a retirement home - deathly quiet and the only sound they want to hear is their own voices all day long.  Starting from about 7.30am until about 8pm, during the summer months, they sit outside in their garden and talk.  Then they talk, then they talk some more. All day, every day.

So when I choose to work on my cabinet, I pick a time when most people are at work, not too early or late.  Around 11am until about 2 or 3pm.

What then happens is Paula appears at the fence and starts making some chit chat, ooo some nice weather today etc.. Then she moves the conversation towards what I'm working on, don't you find it noisy/ doesn't the paint fumes get on your chest / or a recent one was 'I want to make a complaint, you turned the radio off - I was listening to that!'

Basically I think She wants me to creep around the place and listen to their household gassing all day long, with no window for me to do anything.

I was always told to respect my elders and I do, I visit their house, on request, to do any little jobs they aren't confident with.  Move a planter, put up a new washing line, put a shelf up, tune the TV etc..

Im thinking of putting up a taller fence to block them out, or I might say something to her - if I do this I would have to bite my tongue a bit!

I dont like being pushed around in my own home, and dont feel like im doing anything excessive, this isnt a retirement home, its a normal street where people get on with their normal lives, and Im trying to consider this.

Another option is to drag the stereo outside, play Slayers Reign in blood CD on a loop all day long whilst routing 1mm at a time of a hardwood door from 7am till 11pm as the noise pollution laws permit


Any thoughts?

[Ginsu Victim]

Slayer.

[Funnel]

Hell yeah! Slayeeeer!!! Seriously just keep on with your projects. I know this may sound difficult to do but... when she approaches you and start making chit chat just tell her you're busy or if she complains about the noise just tell her that its not a retirement home. Easy. Or... justa play the heck out of Reign In Blood, got some beast tracks in there!!
Angel of Deaaaaaaaath!! Best of luck!

[Marsupial]

I think they are just trying to get into conversation. Do they have lots of visits? hobbies?

maybe they got nothing better to do then talk to their neighbour. How about you explain them how it work, or even ask if they'd like to help? Maybe he's a good woodworker who'd like to teach you some stuff if the occasion would be there?

It doesn't seem like they have any bad intentions, but rather that they are bored and see you as an opportunity to not be too bored.

I know the retired people living behind me like to talk to me when we're outside at the same time, and I don't see it as invasive, just as making conversation. 

[jimmy2x2x]

Its not a polite tone She uses, its very much a veiled complaint.

I do like to chat to them, and if I haven been working on anything for a while - they are nice as pie - no problem at all.  As soon as I break out the power tools, the mood changes.

I don't do an awful lot of work, say maybe 15 hours a week max, and maybe 3 of those hours are using powertools.

I heard her complaining about the smell of my spray paint to her daughter the other day, so I rushed spraying the surround on my coin door, now the paint is flaking off.  Got to do it all over again.

[pinballwizard79]

I have an idea that will fix her...... Just pull a cousin Eddie

[Benevolance]

Retired folks often have nothing to do and complaining is something. Build a better fence.

[shateredsoul]

use your words..

if she's pretending to start conversation so you can't do work ask if you can continue the conversation later after you've finished the work. Excuse yourself, (i.e. sorry I don't mean to be rude, but I really need to finish this.. this is the only day I have off, maybe I can come over later this week so we can finish our conversation?). Retired people have nothing but time, I've heard them talk about getting decibel meters to record how much noise the neighbors make, or annoyed with the noise the neighbors kids makes when skateboarding.. seriously?

I wonder if they would would be okay with wearing ear plugs while you work on the cab... ooooorrrr when you're using your power tools face away from the fence and pretend to not be able to hear. 

[EightBySix]

I know just what you mean - I dont have neighbour trouble, but I do try and consider when I work. I have a slot between the kids being in bed and it being too late to be noisy in the shed. Thats why I favour hand tools over power tools when possible.

I also think that some people actually enjoy creating a bit of drama, to give them something to talk about.

To your problem - I suggest getting some ear defenders, and when they come over - point at them and say "Sorry I cant hear you because of these - I have to wear them because these tools are really very loud"

[unreal2k5]

I also agree get some ear plugs and face away from them when you are working on a project.

[eds1275]

I'd say ignore her. You aren't breaking the laws, it's not a retirement community, and you are doing what you  need to do on your time off on your own property. If she has a complaint, she can make a phone call and have the cops tell her to deal with it.

On the other hand having a nice relationship isn't a bad thing, but they are stepping out of line. They have an inside to their home they can go in if you're bothering them.

[hyiu]

well.... do you ALWAYS have projects going every wk
like you consistently work on power tools like you said when u r off ??

I have very good relationship with my neighbours...
and they dont mind me working on tools...
but fact is... power tools are loud....

if you consistently crank on them every week... and if I'm around...
while its perfectly legal... I might not like it as much also...

if you're only working on ur cab, and didn't work on anything else much before...
I would agree to others....
get a ear plug, turn your back and continue...
and just tell them you're doing something you need to concentrate on....
seriously, when you're using like a router....
you should concentrate cos its a really powerful tool....

but if you have projects day in day out...
I would ask...
do you do cutting outdoors ??
do you have a garage ??
how about if u move the power tool session indoor to like a garage ??
that will contain the sound / fume better...

or setup some kind of portabe / foldable tent in your yard
which will hold the dust and fume a little ??

I dont think what you're doing is illegal...

just that if you turn yourself around... and imagine you were them...
and your neighbour use power tools as often as you do....
would you find it annoying ??
if so, anything you can do to make it slightly better ??
make it a win / win situation ??

[jimmy2x2x]

Like I said, I do about 15 hours MAX work on any projects I've got going within any given week, and about 3 hours MAX are using powertools, I don't have anywhere else to work - just the garden unfortunately.  Its not limited to powertools, they will complain about anything radio, smell of paint - you name it.

I always try to pick around lunchtime to do any noisy work as most people are working or at least out of bed at that time.

They are having a BBQ right now, I'm in two minds to nosey over the fence and start asking them if they find the smell very strong, how long they are planning to run the BBQ for and just generally make them feel uncomfortable (as they like to do with my household).

[EightBySix]

Been thinking about this since I posted. Why not take the initiative next time they say something..

eg..

[do you] find the smell very strong

reply with

"Actually, I've been meaning to ask you... Is there a particular time you would like me to avoid whilst working? I want to make sure I disturb you as little as possible..."

That way - they feel they have been heard, you get a slot that they cant complain about, and the thing they have been only referring to indirectly is out in the open in a positive way.

This approach will work out better for you if you're british... If you are, the answer is likely to be "Oh no, you go ahead... its fine, honestly". If you're american, they are likely to (gasp!) tell you what they think 

[jimmy2x2x]

Thats not too bad of an idea actually, I will try that out.

My guess is their response will be, 'I would prefer you not to do it at all' or something similar.

I will try and video the conversation so you can see what I'm up against!

[WhereEaglesDare]

Screw Em... You are a master of your own destiny.  If they don't like it then that's tough.  I am tired of old people thinking that they get taken advantage of an pissed off and then they get an attitude when you ruin their day.

[drventure]

I gotta side with eds1275 here.

If you're working on projects between, say 9 in the morning and 7 at night, they don't have anything to complain about, unless you're running a dog kennel or testing jet engines. And it doesn't sound like that's what you're doing.

Generally, speaking, I'd rather not piss off my neighbors, but you can only be so accommodating, after that, it becomes a nuisance.

I'd basically do the Be nice, be polite thing, but just say, "I'm right in the middle of this, and I really can't put it down without messing things up, maybe we could talk later?"

[jimmy2x2x]

Just to give it some perspective, the nosiest work I have undertaken in one day was to construct the control panel.

This involved maybe 1 hours worth of drilling/routing.

Of course this wasn't 1 continuous hour and I had to position jigs, take measurements, change router bits etc.. so it was spread over maybe 3 to 4 hours.

and thats as bad as its been, im not routing out side panels or anything major - im working on a mame cab conversion.

Other noisy activities had included removing rust from marquee holders / coin doors with a wire drill attachment.

This isnt major construction work, just refurb work.

The more I think about it, the more I want to say "Go Feck Yourself, you interfering old battle axe"

EDIT: This is always on my mind when im working outside, are they stood at the fence - when are they going to start moaning, hence my work isnt to the best of my ability as I am trying to rush things, probably not the safest way to work either.

[DaOld Man]

You want to get along with your neighbors, and you need to, but you also have to draw the line.
There is a half acre lot between me and my closest neighbor.
One summer he thought he was doing me a favor by mowing the lot and my yard on that side of my house.
I told him one day that I appreciated him doing it, but I told him he was mowing the grass way to short. I like to leave some length on the grass blades, especially during dry summer months. When I would mow the rest of my yard, it wouldnt match what he mowed. He would usually mow it when I wasnt home and just wouldnt take my nicely delivered messages to either not mow my yard or at least raise his mower blades.
This went on for quite some time until one day while I was on midnight shift and trying to sleep, he mowed my yard and got right up against my house, the wall that is the wall to my bedroom. His loud mower with no muffler on it woke me up, and needless to say i was not happy.
I went outside and stopped him. I told him he didnt have to mow my yard, he said "Oh I know I dont", then I made it clear that I didnt want him to. I also told him (again) that he was mowing it way to short. He said "no Im not" and commenced to show me the blade height, which he then realized  was set to the lowest setting.
I went off and said some things I really didnt want to, but I got my point across. He didnt do that again.
I honestly think he mowed my yard short on purpose, since his yard didnt look to be cut as short as mine (or the part of it that he mowed "for me").

[Edwards80]

It's a tricky one but the tactic mentioned above of asking "What time is best for you" gives you a complaint free window.

My old man builds kit cars for a hobby at his house. On one of the earlier projects we were setting up a V8 and needed to run it for a few mins to check the timing etc. This was at about mid-day on a Saturday. The neighbour came to the fence and moaned so we asked when would be best.

Unfortunately she claimed that running it was illegal and she would complain :S We only had to run it for a total of 10mins or so so we just carried on. The next weekend, we are in the garage again working on the car, the neighbour appears with a man with a clipboard asking to talk about the engine running every night for a whole week, and running that day constantly.

We were rather confused and he was too. We sent the engine off to someone elses garage the Monday before the weekend and had the courier receipt to confirm this. He was rather annoyed with her and she never complained again. Her husband came to apologise a few days later too Nice chap. He asked for a ride in the car once it was done 

Most reasonable people would appreciate you asking when is convenient and will agree on a time. If they don't then just make sure you are legal and let them lump it. You've done your best to be reasonable.

[drventure]

@Edwards80

 

That's great! Blowing someone's lie up right in their face. I love it. Absolutely perfect way to put that kind of stuff to an end. I wish I could have gotten video of a neighbor I once had to kept on dumping used motor oil on my property, killing the grass and making a huge mess. I finally put an 8ft fence up, and then had to tell him not to hang stuff on it, because the fence was "completely" on my property, not on the line, so he had no rights to touch it at all. He hated the fence (it killed his view) and bitched until I pulled out the survey and showed him the marking spikes.

[dgame]

Wow, some of you guys got ornery neighbors.

Air-cooled VW's are one of my too-many hobbies and my neighbor actually cracked a smile when I finally fired it up.
This was after a body-off floor pan replacement. Sawzall, air chisel, drilling, MIG Welding, paint stripping, priming and painting engine tins. Lots of Zeppelin & Marley at all hours of the day and night. I had the big flood lights going at night and all.
His response was "I didn't think you would ever start that thing, y'all did a lot of work . . ." and he came over with his son to check it out.
During the build I saw him everyday and he never complained once.

My neighbors across the street seem to prefer to crank up the music during normal sleeping hours.
Eventually someone calls the cops.

On topic:
The thing is you seem to have a relationship with them (help them do stuff, etc.) So I think you should let them know that this is important and dangerous stuff (you could hurt yourself) and that the faster and better you get it done the faster the noise and smells will stop. Asking about a good time for them is cool to as you offer a compromise. If they don't have any good time for you to work then don't crank the Slayer too loud, just finish your projects safely and without regards to the noise.

[RayB]

Asking for a "window of complaint free working" is polite and all, but then it seriously restricts when you can work and the second you fire up a power tool outside that window, the neighbour will get pissy because you're directly breaking an agreement.

Screw em. "That's life".

[jimmy2x2x]

You are right, I shouldn't be boxing myself in with a limited time window.

They just sit there in the back garden from dawn till dusk, yapping away.  Its never a good time, they never go out.

I was out in my tiny shed just now, so I put the radio on for half an hour, knocked about 6 nails into the shed cross beam to hang a couple of tools to make some room, and above the radio I could hear them tutting and mumbling.  That's half an hour, knocked in 6 nails and they are already expressing their disapproval.

I think if I ask them about an appropriate time, they will think I am in the wrong and need their permission to work.

[shateredsoul]

but if you ask, that might produce similarly hilarious results as the guy with the v8

[Dartful Dodger]

It's been said  before.

She sounds like she wants to make conversation.  She has years of experience and knowledge she wants to pass on to you.  Working with loud noise and fumes is/will be bad for you.

Old people don't beat around the bush. If she wanted to complain about the noise and fumes she would either come out and say it or she would have called the police.

If you don't want to socialize with her build a big fence.  Just keep in mind, by doing that they are no longer the grumpy a-hole neighbors, you are.

[hypernova]

Old people don't beat around the bush. If she wanted to complain about the noise and fumes she would either come out and say it or she would have called the police.

Being a psychology major, I tend to read Dear Abby in the paper.  Old people are just as sly and conniving with their complaints as younger people, if not more so, due to their experience over a lifetime of doing so.

[shateredsoul]

Old people don't beat around the bush. If she wanted to complain about the noise and fumes she would either come out and say it or she would have called the police.

Being a psychology major, I tend to read Dear Abby in the paper.  Old people are just as sly and conniving with their complaints as younger people, if not more so, due to their experience over a lifetime of doing so.

We just had a meeting today to discuss how psychology research papers make sweeping generalizations based on convenience samples  (primarily undergrads). Most the research in the behavioral sciences is really only reflective of a very tiny portion of the population (usually middle class, usually male, usually college student). yet we write about it as if our findings apply to the world.  Anyways, there's many examples of old people, cultures, cities where old people do not complain as much or in the same way. I've never heard of a study that compared old people to young people's style of complaining (complainy-ness if you will). 

Just yanking your leg , but I wouldn't make generalizations based on dear Abby (or even the psych text books in our field).

[lilshawn]

well, the law is the law, and if it says 7am to 11pm, it is quite acceptable to do so between 11am and 2pm... i mean 4 hours isn't a huge amount of time.

i would (if possible) move my work area to as far away as possible... but if it isn't possible... i would continue as you are, and if it does become an issue with the neighbor, i'm sure they will have the by-law enforcement officer visit...when he(she) does just inform him(her) of what's going on. and i'm sure, not having a problem with what you are doing, speak with the neighbor and inform them that there is nothing obscene or illegal with what you are doing.

other than that, i guess you could just make it a point to not save up all your items that need trimming or cutting...then spend 10 minutes constantly cutting. 3 seconds of disturbance is better than 10 minutes. if you have a basement why not move down there? you could pick out a spot (rip out a section of carpet if you need to(makes it easy to clean up)) and work there.

if the neighbors are seriously bad mojo, maybe consider "renting" a friends garage/shed/workshop/basement until the project is complete. it could possibly cost you a case of beer....plus you have someone to keep you company and to bounce ideas off of.

lots of luck! my neighbors (basement suite of a duplex) don't like me sitting in the back yard cause they say I can see in their bedroom... BUY SOME GAWDAM CURTAINS THEN!
I told them in an argument over mowing the lawn (don't ask) I said "if the house was on fire, I wouldn't even look in your windows to see if you got out!"

 - guy who hates his neighbors.

[RandyT]

Wow....this one is right up my alley.  The fact is, if no laws are being broken and she hasn't outright complained, either to you or to the police, then there's a good reason why she hasn't.  My guess is that it's because you do help them out on occasion, and they value that part of their association with you.  To keep them from trying to subjugate you, you absolutely should take a stand.  It doesn't have to be loud music, in-your-face insults, or anything that you wouldn't normally do.  What it is, is you finding the inner strength to know that you have a right to do the things you want to do on your own property, and not let her comments bother you.  And if they get to the point that they become unbearable, you need to simply ask her why she is is constantly making the statements she is making, or asking the questions she asks.  People tend to quickly fall out of their position of strength when it becomes apparent to them that you are on to their BS posturing.  She will either become a bit embarrassed, realizing that what she has been doing is bothering you, or it will come out in the open so you can both address the issue like adults.  It may be that she just likes talking, and you are a fresh ear.  If so, no need for drama, just a simple explanation that you really need to get back to work so you can get finished.  If a more sinister motive is at play, just do what you have to, within the limits of the law, and you will be fine.  If she does call the cops on you, and you aren't doing anything wrong, they will explain that fact to her, and as a side benefit, you won't need to put up any more shelves or hang clotheslines.

I had a yuppy couple move in next door and he came to my front door asked me how long a small heap of construction debris would be where it was sitting on my property.  It was from a project, with an open building permit and everything, being staged for a dumpster to remove it.  I simply asked him "why do you care?"  His answer was "well, it's an eyesore".  Wrong answer.  I told him very firmly that it's my property, and he should now consider himself trespassing upon it.  As he was leaving, he said it wasn't very "neighborly", and my response was that it was nowhere near as unneighborly as someone moving in next to someone who has been there for 15 years, and within 3 days of doing so, trying to control things on their property.  Within 20 minutes, he was back at my door with a six-pack of "gourmet" beer (that I would never touch) and an apology.  I accepted his apology, but not the beer and he went on his way.  Never had a problem with them again for the 3 years they stuck around.

Stand your ground.  Emphasis on your ground.

RandyT

[Dartful Dodger]

Jimmy, it's obvious Randy has issues(real or imaginary), you on the other hand have a good relationship with your neighbors and for whatever reason her comments aren't sitting well with you. It sounds like she was making small talk and had actual concerns for your health.

A guy near me in the office has head phones on and I can hear the music he's playing.  It's an open office and there's a lot of chatter and noises so I've just learned to ignore all of it.  This guy is new and he's using his head phones to drowned out the background noise.  I told him our job wasn't worth going deaf over.  He jumped to the same conclusion as you and Randy came to, so he just turned his music up more.  It's all background noise to me so I don't care about music, but up until the time he wanted to prove that I'm not his boss I did care about his hearing.

If you still want to show her who's the boss, loud music is a nuisance and she could call the police on you, but as far as the paint fumes go, give yourself bronchitis, that'll teach her a lesson about minding her own business.

[jimmy2x2x]

Thanks for your comments, Let me try and explain it a little more clearly

If I plant a new shrub, there wouldn't be any kind of comment
If I sit outside silently on my laptop, there wouldn't be any kind of comment
Same for sunbathing, reading a book, writing a letter, or any other silent activity.  No comments at all.

As soon as I can be detected doing ANYTHING the leading conversation starts, moving onto an itemised list of things that have been detected, paint smell, radio etc...

This isn't small talk, as they would make comments about all the other things, these are veiled complaints.

I have been talking to a neighbour on the other side of the problem neighbours, she has lodgers in her house and was telling me a similar story - An Italian guy is stopping with her at the moment and he has had a few friends around for 2 days before they all go on holiday together.  Problem neighbour started off with a nice conversation about the Italian guy, then moved onto: Yes, we noticed them all out in the garden the other night, how many of them are staying with you? Are you allowed that many in your house? How long are they staying? No direct complaints, but a list of things that have been detected, the lady had the same feeling as me, complaining without actually being direct about it.

This neighbour also brought up a very good point, she has noticed how loud this woman is.  She seems to have a policy of shouting rather than walking, which means we are all treated to her voice for a good 12 hours a day.  I have never really paid any attention to it, but she told me that if the problem neighbour mentions anything to her again in a negative light, she will point out what kind of neighbours they are, asking them to pay close attention to all the noise they create on a daily basis.

So I made of point of talking a little louder than normal about this issue with my brother, we went out into my garden and we went into our prepared conversation about my project, what time I work on it etc then moving onto the issue with the Italian guy.  I know full well the problem neighbours heard all of this conversation, and hopefully they are getting some perspective on the situation.

I will continue to work outside for a couple of hours in the early afternoon, as I have been doing.  One more comment about any of this and I will down tools and tell them in no uncertain terms that this is being done.  The more interruptions and distractions I suffer will result in the job taking longer and work probably needing to be redone (showing them the flaking paint on my coin door surround as a result of them complaining and me rushing the job)

[RandyT]

Based on Dartful's comments, people who are passive aggressive in this way may not even be fully aware that they are doing it.  At least not to the extent they do.  

Sounds like you know the neighbor and her motives quite well, and if you aren't the only one who has noticed, then it's probably not just you.  If she's an otherwise nice lady, maybe just bringing it to her attention will be enough to prompt a little introspection on her part, and you can go on living harmoniously next to each other.   Being a good neighbor has to work in both directions.  If she's making you feel uncomfortable in your own space, and doing it intentionally with no real right to, then she isn't playing by the rules.  Better not to associate with her further and live your life under your terms, than to give her the feeling that she has some right to comment on, or worse...control, what you do in your own space.

Fortunately, I now have a decent neighbor who I enjoy interacting with and helping with new (to him) issues experienced by first time homeowners.  I don't think twice about letting him borrow tools (and I have a lot of tools) or helping him on a project when he asks.  Good neighbors find ways to co-exist, not ways to control the other when they see things they don't like.  And if the only time she comments is when you make a little noise or paint, then that's what she's doing (whether she, or Dartful, realize it themselves.)

Good luck with your situation.

[RayB]

I find it really odd that "I was listening to that [radio]" is a complaint... well ok, it sounds like one, but a good reaction would have been something along the lines of "oh sorry, I'll put it back on", and then put it on louder, you know so she can hear it better.

I'd love to know how she would react in that situation, given that she set herself up for it.

[eds1275]

I am lucky, my neighbors now are great. As soon as I moved in I introduced myself, I said if there's ever anything going on just let me know so there's no hidden issues. Immediately they told me about their hate for my dead tree, which was fine it was an eyesore. We chat all the time, and if there's an issue, it's out in the open. Doesn't happen very often, but when it does we discuss it and a resolution is found and even if it doesn't get dealt with right away I know what is going on and I put it in my plans.

If you want to keep a good relationship going just tell them that if they have an issue it does more good to tell you outright because you can hear them complaining anyway.

[shrunkenmaster]

I have a deal when it comes to working with power tools outside. Basically, when it's not raining, I'm outside using power tools. It's England after all. Today - August 4th - may as well have been January 4th; rain, heavy wind. Luckily my neighbours are in the dizzy heights of home improvement so we're all out in the garden revving up anything we can get our hands on before the next downpour!

[hypernova]

Just yanking your leg , but I wouldn't make generalizations based on dear Abby (or even the psych text books in our field).

Nah.  I wasn't making generalizations.  Some people, and it is very evident this "problem" neighbor is one of them, are very skilled in the veiled complaints department.

I definitely would try to keep a cool head if you do make any direct comments to her when she begins bothering you.  Unless you're indifferent on whether you scare the crap out of her.  Then have at it.

[jimmy2x2x]

After my brother, speaking in a very loud tone, said

'This old lady next door complaining? She's got a mouth like the Mersey Tunnel, they should try living next door to themselves'

I haven't heard a peep from them

God bless him!

This was done indirectly, following their great tradition of complaining without complaining.


^ The Mersey Tunnel

[shrunkenmaster]

following their great tradition of complaining without complaining.

So British, so true 

[NiN^_^NiN]

Any updates?

It's been a while since you did that little scene to put her straight im curious if she has done it again