killer whale kills someone

[danny_galaga]

shock. horror. Is THAT what killer whales do?


http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20100225/twl-killer-whale-drowns-trainer-at-seawo-3fd0ae9.html

[Comtek]

quote from article
"We don't know what was going through the killer whale's head"
the key to it all is in that statement
KILLER whale

[shardian]

All parties involved knew the danger of that whale, since they had 'no swim' policies in place with that one. I just don't understand why they didn't release that thing back to the ocean after it killed a person? Company A couldn't pass up a chance to recoup costs and company B couldn't pass up the bargain price 'lightly used w/ recall issued' whale I guess...

[saint]

I have no sympathy whatsoever for the trainer.

This surprises me not at all.

[shardian]

I have an idea - why don't these trainers wear an emergency breather strapped to their waist or something. I know I would want something like that if I messed with those beasts.

[TOK]

I have an idea - why don't these trainers wear an emergency breather strapped to their waist or something. I know I would want something like that if I messed with those beasts.

It didn't just pull her under. It grabbed her and shook her so hard that her shoes flew off.
I doubt she drowned.

[shardian]

It didn't just pull her under. It grabbed her and shook her so hard that her shoes flew off.
I doubt she drowned.

Ah, so the real story is that the whale killed the hell out of her. The initial reports really sugar coated it and made it seem the whale gently grabbed her like a kitten and went down for some cuddly play time that lasted a bit too long.

[ark_ader]

Yeah it probably thought she was a seal or something as I'm sure she was wearing a wetsuit.

I think all aquatic life should be in the water free from captivity and its the people who keep parks like Sea World that should be blamed when something like this goes on.

On that note I would say the same for people who enter the aquatic domain.  Get taken by a White shark?  Stay out of the ocean, the same for Killer Whales.

[saint]

Well, man, when Steve Irwin died did you have any sympathy for him?  I felt bad for his wife and kids but not him.

Yes, yes I did. Believing that someone has placed themselves in a dangerous situation does not automatically mean I lose sympathy for them if they get hurt. I don't understand people who equate "that person has placed themselves in danger" with "frack them they deserve to get hurt." Saddam Hussein I had no sympathy for. The Seaworld employee who gets killed by a killer whale I have lots of sympathy for.

[Ed_McCarron]

OTOH, the whale gets all the fish it can eat, top notch medical care, protection from natural risks...  Could one argue it's more of a symbiotic relationship than the tree huggers paint it?

[saint]

Would you feel bad if a sword swallower died because he tore a hole in his stomach?

Yes. Why would anyone with a shred of human empathy not feel bad for the guy? I completely place the fault and blame on him for his mishap, but I still feel bad for the guy.

[RobbyMac]

If it were a dog that did the attacking this story would be going in an entirely different route. It's still a wild animal, regardless of how cute it is. Now I hear radio talk about how the whale shouldn't be destroyed, can't be put back to sea in the wild, etc...
I feel sorry for the trainer... But on talk radio it almost seems like I should feel sorry for the whale?

Save the plankton... Kill the whales.

[Vanguard]

My son has a field trip to Sea World tomorrow.   I told him to stay away from any specials they have on "chicken" sandwiches.

[Vanguard]

WTF?  Everyone get out NOW!  Stampeding killer whale!

I think the point is to keep the children in the audience from seeing half eaten dead bodies.

[shardian]

Save the plankton... Kill the whales.

Killer whales kill other whales.   

Killer whales kill other whales, sharks, dolphins, seals, sea lions, penguins, etc.

I saw a National Geographix special once that showed how Killer whales feasted on sea lions and seals at some remote island where the seals/sea lions hung out on en mass for a few months. The killer whales would hang out in the deeper water off shore until they saw a land dweller venture into about knee deep water by themselves. Then one of the whales would get a head of steam and come plowing up into the shallows to grab the unfortunate animal. It was epically awesome! Then they'd wiggle around to go back out and wait for more.

[Dartful Dodger]

I guess a lot of the apathy towards it stems from my deep seated personal problems with zoos and their ilk.

...

(I sat through one of the shows in September)

If more people who didn't like to see animals in captivities would attend shows at zoos and the like, they'd be able to double the size of the cages and acquire 3 times the amount of animals to live in them.

[Hoopz]

Save the plankton... Kill the whales.

Killer whales kill other whales.   

Killer whales kill other whales, sharks, dolphins, seals, sea lions, penguins, etc.

I saw a National Geographix special once that showed how Killer whales feasted on sea lions and seals at some remote island where the seals/sea lions hung out on en mass for a few months. The killer whales would hang out in the deeper water off shore until they saw a land dweller venture into about knee deep water by themselves. Then one of the whales would get a head of steam and come plowing up into the shallows to grab the unfortunate animal. It was epically awesome! Then they'd wiggle around to go back out and wait for more.

There's a video, almost assuredly on Youtube now, of a sea lion that was supposedly in captivity either hurt or just in a zoo, that was being released into the wild again.  A group like PETA had a bunch of people there to celebrate the poor thing being finally released.

They let it go and it swam away free at last.  A minute later, you see a killer whale flip the little bastard or another sea lion and eat it.  It's fairly comical because of the PETA morons. 

[Gorotsuki]

Wild or not.
I do think you can
befriend and train animals.
If you watch them
they are all pretty smart in their own way.

As for this accident
you know, stuff happens.
In Ohio a 300 pound woman
sat on her husband and killed him.
You gotta' be careful with the
really big animals.

[Necro]

They said in one of the stories that this particular whale has been a bit pissy for awhile.  It was involved in another accident previously, MAY have killed a guy that snuck in to the place after hours, etc.  So...it wasn't a particularly 'nice' whale. 

Also, something like only 50% of the trainers would work with this particular whale and no one would get into the tank with it normally because of it's temperment. 

Sounds like this whale was pissed, the trainer did something - prob. not on purpose - that set it off and it just grabbed her like a seal and decided to do what killer whales do. 

And, it's a few thousand pounds of whale - a breathing thing wouldn't have done much more than have her stay conscious while the whale flung her apart.  (Look at some video footage of killer whales killing things in the wild - it's insane.)

[Frigo]

It's cut and dry from the headline: KILLER whale KILLS human. I mean, if you think for one second that this beast of an animal is going to be cute and cuddly all it's life without any sort of wanting to lash out, then you're nuts. I feel sorry for the family of the woman who died, but beyond that, she either knew the risks going in, or was incredibly naive, and either way, suffered the consequences of her own actions. Then of course the media has to sensationalize it, because, you know, this sort of stuff never happens in the wild... 

[ahofle]

Then on top of that, tell kids that they need to follow their dreams and some day THEY can annoy Shamu, too! (I sat through one of the shows in September)

I saw the same show in November.  I felt like I was at a cult Shamu worshiping convention with all the repetitive chanting and symbolic hand motions.  I remember thinking how creepy the whole thing was, especially the way the trainers deeply hugged/kissed the whales. 

[Zero_Hour]

Somewhere, a Hollywood exec is just now being handed a treatment for a remake of Orca.

[Dartful Dodger]

http://www.wesh.com/video/22671481/index.html?hpt=T2

"Seconds before the attack" ==  boring sea world show

the end is funny, just because they sounded like a retired old couple and the old man wants to just stay in his seat video taping, but his nagging old wife convices him they have to leave.

They could have made a lot more money for this tape, if his wife wasn't in such a rush to go and see the other equally boring sea shows.

[danny_galaga]

Wild or not.
I do think you can
befriend and train animals.
If you watch them
they are all pretty smart in their own way.

As for this accident
you know, stuff happens.
In Ohio a 300 pound woman
sat on her husband and killed him.
You gotta' be careful with the
really big animals.

 


But seriously, i posted this because like a few people here, i really don't like zoos and captive animals. How far and wide does a whale roam day to day? A zoo equals a prison for a mammal. All mammals can suffer from mental problems. The larger and more intelligent, the more likely. A mouse in a nice big cage is one thing, but an elephant or a whale couped up is quite another. I do feel sorry for the trainer. I also feel sorry for caged animals. I was forever put off when i saw an emaciated polar bear in a park. you could see the poor thing had probably lost it's marbles. Putting a large mammal in a confined space is cruel.

All killer whales in captivity in parks should be either set free or put down in my opinion...

[RayB]

This is America, land of the lawyers! I demand that you all refer to the animal in question as an Alleged Killer Whale.

[danny_galaga]

"Seconds before the attack" ==  boring sea world show

Well, given the multiple angles of 'Epic Beard Man' I think its certain we'll get sauce on this one.

Holy crap pinball, is that a TISM quote in your sig?  

edit: second thoughts i guess not. Didn't think you'd be quoting from an internationally obscure aussie indie band...

[Silas (son of Silas)]

I have no sympathy whatsoever for the trainer.

May I ask why? Is it because you feel that she entered the pool knowing the risks (like we all do when we drive a car, so should we feel no pitty for crash victims), or maybe because you disagree with the cramped conditions in which this animal is kept in and therefore it's some kind of justice in return for its imprisonment? (in which case I'm guessing you are a vegan and fully signed up member of PETA otherwise you'd be a hypocrite?)

I am genuinely curious why any human being worth knowing would feel no sympathy for a woman who suffered what I can only imagine was a horrific, terrifying and painful death doing the job that she loved and from accounts from family and friends was a loving caring woman who meant no ill to anyone?

[Frigo]

I know I don't and can't speak for PBJ, but personally, I feel very little sympathy for the woman. As I stated before, I DO feel sympathy for a family who has lost their mother, wife, daughter, and so on, but we are all held accountable for our choices and actions in life and as such we should understand the consequences of our actions before we take them. This woman CHOSE a life in which she would be working in a dangerous environment with dangerous animals, "trained," or otherwise. She also CHOSE to work with this particular animal who, according to the press, has a history of attacking humans and others around it. Unlike a car crash victim, we never know if we're going to get into an accident or not, so in turn the automobile industry has taken great strides to ensure human safety to protect them IF a crash happens. In other words, we never know if a crash is inevitable or not, but there are safeguards in place, just in case something happens. From what I've read on the matter, most whale trainers don't train for whether or not an accident is going to happen, but what to do WHEN the accident happens. To me, that says a great deal of what risks you're willing to take when jumping into a job such as this, especially when dealing with a caged animal with a documented history of violence. This woman made her choice that day to work with the whale, and she paid dearly for it. Tragic, yes, but I don't feel any sympathy for her, as she knew what she was doing going in. Just my 0.02.

[LLUncoolJ]

I wasted about 8-10 hours of my life watching Whale Wars last summer. The one thing I came away with was that when they showed the Japanese markets selling whale meat, I thought to myself "that looks like some good eatin', I wonder where I can score some whale meat". If they have to "destroy" the alleged killer, it shouldn't go to waste, should it?

[Comtek]

i agree the killer whale was just being a killer whale
making an animal work for food is just wrong
i'm sure that whale was not well fed before the show why else would it do things for food. those animals are kept at a constant state of hunger it motivates them to do the trick.
killer whales are the only whale that will purposly beach itself to get food they have perfected it. usually to get at a seal which when full grown get the size of a small human.
just seems mad to stand in front of an animal with the name killer. then tease it with tiny morsels of food. jump around on the shore in front of it knowing it's ability to get in and out of the water. it's main source of food in the wild in an animal close to human size.
i'm not the brightest  am i missing something  why on earth would you  tease that animal

my sympathy to the family though but she should have known better

[shardian]

Being a child of the late 80's early 90's, I was at that tender age when Free Willy came out. Thus, I think they should let the animal free. Jim is my age so he's probably subconsciously channeling Free Willy too.

[shardian]

I feel bad for this but my brain just made the connection of its own accord:

I was sitting here thinking about this and all the sudden the 'Must Love Jaws' trailer popped in my head.

[Thenasty]

i agree the killer whale was just being a killer whale
making an animal work for food is just wrong
i'm sure that whale was not well fed before the show why else would it do things for food. those animals are kept at a constant state of hunger it motivates them to do the trick.
killer whales are the only whale that will purposly beach itself to get food they have perfected it. usually to get at a seal which when full grown get the size of a small human.
just seems mad to stand in front of an animal with the name killer. then tease it with tiny morsels of food. jump around on the shore in front of it knowing it's ability to get in and out of the water. it's main source of food in the wild in an animal close to human size.
i'm not the brightest  am i missing something  why on earth would you  tease that animal

my sympathy to the family though but she should have known better

to sum it in pictures.......

[Thenasty]

all jobs/hobby there are risk involve. An electrician could electricute himself. A Bank teller could also get killed. Anything really.....It's part of the job. It comes with it.

So when that time comes, we just all feel sorry and sad to the accidents.

I'm sure she knows that the WHALE can swallow her whole if she stands up like the pic above. It's a risk we all have to take.

Recently in the news, people died of playing GAMES too much. Maybe I will die playing my MAME in the middle of a PACMAN hi-score (heart attack of some sort, too intence).

A friend of ours died in the Bathroom with a Cig in his mouth. He enjoyed that Cig I'm sure. His hobby, smoking cigs to much and died happilly I'm sure (saw the grin on the face).

At the end, at least we/us/she/he move on and did what we/us/she/he love doing.

[shmokes]

The one good thing to come of all this is that I learned that killer whales are not whales, but are in the dolphin family.

[AtomSmasher]

There's a video, almost assuredly on Youtube now, of a sea lion that was supposedly in captivity either hurt or just in a zoo, that was being released into the wild again.  A group like PETA had a bunch of people there to celebrate the poor thing being finally released.

They let it go and it swam away free at last.  A minute later, you see a killer whale flip the little bastard or another sea lion and eat it.  It's fairly comical because of the PETA morons. 

I seem to remember this (or at least something very similar) happening after the Exxon Valdez oil spill, it was the first otter who had been cleaned and released back into the wild.  The newsman made a comment about how the otter flipped on his back and waved goodbye to the crowd....then chomp.

[Vanguard]

This is all just proof that our justice system is broken.   The whale had a rap sheet, he'd killed before.  Twice!  What was he still doing swimming the streets?   He should have been locked up for life after the killing the first victim. 

[shmokes]

Um . . . you don't consider the whales at Sea World to be locked up?   

[Vanguard]

Pffft,  Sea Worlds is like a federal prison.   All the seafood you can eat, big screen T.V. in your cell, swimming pool, chicks,  (The whale's had 13 chilren in captivity).   

I say we make him do hard time.

[Howard_Casto]

Been follwing this thread for a while now and I was unsure how to respond.  There's lots of mis-conceptions and skewed opinions on both sides.  I can only add a few statements and opinions of my own. 

I've been to several seaworld's and I've always found them to be strangely double-sided.  On the one hand they rescue animals and use millions of dollars of funding towards research and study of both the animals and their habitat.  They also prove to be a very useful classroom environment for school children, marine biologists and everything in-between.  And then you look at the killer whales and larger marine mammals.... It's just sad.  A relic of the parks past when they were just in it for the money that they just can't seem to get rid of.  Like it or not the "shamus" are the main draw of the parks and pretty much fund all the good work they do.  You have to ask if it's worth it though considering orca's are so highly intelligent and the pools they put them in are so small.  Personally I wish they'd do away with the practice and I'd be glad to continue visiting the parks for their smaller, happier exhibits.  Then again I don't know how that would affect them financially.  Sea World has already went bankrupt once and the entirety of the parks was purchased by Bush a few years back. 

With that being said, there is a reason the animal in question simply wasn't released into the wild... they can't.  Don't let movies like free-willy fool you, orcas born in captivity can't been released into the wild as they won't survive. 

Also I need to point out the fact that the term "killer whale" was coined by whalers in the 1800's and generally speaking all species of whale and aquatic mammal are extremely gentle towards man.  They are still wild animals though and with orcas being particularly agressive predators that feed on people -sized animals so they can hurt or even kill you if you provoke or scare them.  The term "killer" is a tad harsh though and I don't like how it's being thrown around in this thread so casually.  Sure it makes for a great punchline for your favorite late-night talk show, but it's really mis-leading.

The discussion of sympathy towards the diver and as a offshoot guys like steve irwin is something I have an opinion on as well.  I think this argument might be more about the language used than anything else.  I don't like the way the term "sympathize" is being used and I certainly don't sympathize with the diver, who's typically a college intern who has no business around anything alive much less a full-grown orca, or Mr. Irwin who was well-aware of the risks involved when he died.  I do however feel sad about it, I just can't sympathize because these weren't freak accidents and the parties involved were aware of the danger.  That being said, in both cases the individuals were well trained (well I'm assuming the diver was) and weren't doing anything irresponsible in the context of their occupations.  I take extreme offense when guys like stever irwin are portrayed as some dumb brute poking animals with sticks for fame, when he and his family has done more for wildlife conservation and protection in their lives than more "legitimate" organizations like the WWF will ever hope to achieve.  So do I sympathize? No, they knew the risks, but it is down-right dispecable to treat these people like some kind of animal exploiting nazis who got what was coming to them.

Also it's a misconception to think that the whales are being "teased" to do tricks.  All members of the dolphin family are EXTREMELY intelligent.  As in they are attempting to teach them sign language intelligent.  If they aren't willing to do the trick then they'll let you know in their own way.  It's why seaworld typically has several of each species and some aren't involved in the shows at all.  Those simply don't want to perform.  Of course this makes it even sadder that they are in captivity considering their intelligence, but it is by no means reckless to be around them. Of course ANY animal is dangerous, even man.  Also the food they are given during shows is just a treat, it has virtually no impact on their caloric intake, so they aren't being starved to perform.

Well that's all I've got for now.  I might comment on zoo's and marine parks in general later on if this thread keeps going but I'd need to collect my thoughts on the matter first.

[Thenasty]

Humans are like Door Knobs,  "Everyone gets a turn". My "Turn" is coming up, just don't know when, where, how.  

[Comtek]

Also I need to point out the fact that the term "killer whale" was coined by whalers in the 1800's and generally speaking all species of whale and aquatic mammal are extremely gentle towards man.  They are still wild animals though and with orcas being particularly agressive predators that feed on people -sized animals so they can hurt or even kill you if you provoke or scare them.  The term "killer" is a tad harsh though and I don't like how it's being thrown around in this thread so casually.  Sure it makes for a great punchline for your favorite late-night talk show, but it's really mis-leading.

not sure your idea of what killer means but thats not a mother cat looking after her kittens

[Dartful Dodger]

"They usually swim 100s of miles in the ocean and now they are just doing laps in a pool."

-This isn't anyone's exact quote, just a simplified version of what I think the animal lovers are getting at.

It's a whale, it doesn't care. It's swimming 100s of miles because it such a large animal it needs to swim that far to find food.  The man made "pools" in zoos and aquariums is what wild whales dream that heaven is like.

"Whales are smarter than most animals..."
- again, this is condensed animal rights phrase.

There are obese humans who have their family bring them Cheetos so they can spend the rest of their lives in bed watching TV.  When they eventually die the city needs to take out a wall of the house so they can remove the body. 

Yes those people have bellow average intelligence, but all jokes aside, they are still smarter than whales.

I believe animals feel pain and animal abusers should be punished, but I don't believe animals are upset over being fed, given companionship and receive medial treatment, no matter how small their new home is.

Domestic dogs are believed to have evolved from wolf-ish animals that chose to give up the forests for human scraps.

I believe whales in captivity are happier.  If the "seconds before the attack" video is legit, that whale looked content.  The problem wasn't that it was upset, the probelm was that it's a dumb animal that didn't know it was killing it's trainer.

[RayB]

not sure your idea of what killer means but thats not a mother cat looking after her kittens

Gee, a wild animal killing for food? WHO'D A THUNK!?

You know that violent side-to-side jerking of a play-toy that even the tiniest dogs will do? That's an instinct meant to snap a prey's neck. So yeah, even your cute little pets can be "killers".

[Epyx]

You know that violent side-to-side jerking of a play-toy that even the tiniest dogs will do? That's an instinct meant to snap a prey's neck. So yeah, even your cute little pets can be "killers".

Yep most breeds of dog have no problem reverting to instinctive behavior if an owner dies or they get lost. Same with cats becoming feral...they may be domesticated but they are really only ever a pace beyond being wild again.  Then again...same with humans

[ark_ader]

I just love how this thread is progressing. 

[Dartful Dodger]

Yep most breeds of dog have no problem reverting to instinctive behavior if an owner dies or they get lost. Same with cats becoming feral...they may be domesticated but they are really only ever a pace beyond being wild again.  Then again...same with humans

Yep and most breeds of dogs that have accepted a human owner will also have no problem accepting another owner if the first owner dies.

They still have the ability to go wild, yet they don't, this is why I believe they would rather be taken care of over being free.

Then again...same with humans

[shmokes]

I used to secretly wish ark_arder would be eaten by a whale.  Then I recently found out I could block his obnoxious avatar with my Adblock Firefox extension (which I already had installed).  Just right-click the avatar and block it.  This is the first time I saw it in action and it works like a charm.  I totally no longer wish he would die a horrible horrible death, which I think is a step in the right direction for me psychologically.  Thanks Adblock!

[danny_galaga]

I used to secretly wish ark_arder would be eaten by a whale.  Then I recently found out I could block his obnoxious avatar with my Adblock Firefox extension (which I already had installed).  Just right-click the avatar and block it.  This is the first time I saw it in action and it works like a charm.  I totally no longer wish he would die a horrible horrible death, which I think is a step in the right direction for me psychologically.  Thanks Adblock!

[RobbyMac]

If only she would have known how to succesfully land a shin kick to the whale

[Necro]

Of course, I can't find it now but I was reading something a few months back about cats - they basically aren't domesticated, but instead evolved specifically to fill a niche offered by humans and can easily move between what would be called 'feral' and 'domestic' activities.  This is primarly because cat's weren't extensively bread to expand upon certain features - at least not historically.  Maybe to be a 'mouser', but that's it.  They retained the vast majority of their 'survival/feral' capabilities because of the extensive breeding that occurs across the world of stray cats.

This is unlike dogs that were bred for special tasks for thousands of years - basically a highly 'forced' evolution/adaptation that resulted in animals that are incapable of surviving in the wild or, in some cases (bull dogs I believe) incapable of breeding without human intervention (they can't give birth except via c-section).    Stray dogs align more with the cats as mentioned above, but they are much less prevalent then cats.

The article was about how cats are starting to be hard-core domesticated like dogs in some cases via breeding (for looks) and how it may have influences on their behavior.

...and yeah.  A cat will eat your corpse no problem.  Hell.  My one cat tries to eat my head every day.  That or she's determined to lick my head clean.  Could be a bit of both.

[shmokes]

If only she would have known how to succesfully land a shin kick to the whale

It's surprising what you can do to a whale with only a 30% stomp to the forehead.

[protokatie]

Humans are the most caged animal on Earth. We have organized religion, government, forum rules and society. We let others of our own kind tell us what to think and how to act. We even go so far as to allow others to tell us how to act around other animals (IE, an animal does what it does because it is an animal).

And we accept this, but only because we are told to do so (or else).

As per the whale... Well, I guess we could give it a citation to show up to court on grounds of negligent homicide (well cant be homicide, as homo means same...), but I highly doubt it will show up. It's a firkken whale.

BTW, Why is it that life is considered tragic, but we only say so when life ends?

[northerngames]

its terrible it happened but it was bound to happen eventually humans don't belong in the water with something like that around let alone swimming with one in a small pool.

I don't blame the whale for it at all.

a little off topic but for me it's kinda like the bullfighters they stab it to death but when it attack's the human knock's them out or tramples them etc. other's come in to save the human and kill the bull.

I say if you want to make a game out of animals life like that then and you step in there to fight that animal to the death like that then fight it to the death but nobody come's out until one or the other is dead wether it is the human or bull.

do I feel sorry for the matador that got his ass kicked no he got what he wanted and deserved for playing that type game becuase there is nobody there to save the bull when he is down.

if you need to be saved then you dont belong in there.

[Thenasty]

Food vs. Woman

Who's gonna win 
(sorry can't resist. This lady is no stranger in BYOAC)

[Frigo]

Keep in mind I'm relatively new here...

This person was a BYOAC member?

[Hoopz]

Keep in mind I'm relatively new here...

This person was a BYOAC member?

Tron guy's wife before she split taking the arcade cabinet that they built together.  He isn't a member here anymore and Saint kicker her out too.

[saint]

Keep in mind I'm relatively new here...

This person was a BYOAC member?

Don't listen to anything anyone says in this thread...

[Hoopz]

Keep in mind I'm relatively new here...

This person was a BYOAC member?

Don't listen to anything anyone says in this thread...

H8R!




 

[Frigo]

Keep in mind I'm relatively new here...

This person was a BYOAC member?

Don't listen to anything anyone says in this thread...

Can do! 

[Necro]

She's hot, anyone have her number?

[Ed_McCarron]

867-5309